13/04/2016 Daily Politics


13/04/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Hilary Benn and Owen Paterson to discuss the day's top political stories, plus live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions.


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700,000 more EU migrants are living in the UK than three years ago -

:00:36.:00:42.

would leaving the European Union let us take control of our borders?

:00:43.:00:47.

The Culture Secretary and the dominatrix -

:00:48.:00:49.

John Whittingdale's relationship ended two years ago

:00:50.:00:52.

and didn't make the papers until today,

:00:53.:00:54.

but is that because the story wasn't worth printing?

:00:55.:00:58.

David Cameron faces Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box

:00:59.:01:01.

for the first Prime Minister's Questions of the summer term -

:01:02.:01:04.

And publishing your tax return is par for the course these days

:01:05.:01:09.

if you're a politician - but whose form's been most memorable?

:01:10.:01:19.

All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, two MPs

:01:20.:01:23.

who've produced some fascinating reading - and I'm not just talking

:01:24.:01:25.

The former Environment Secretary, who's now campaigning for the UK

:01:26.:01:29.

to leave the EU, Owen Paterson, and Shadow Foreign Secretary

:01:30.:01:34.

Hilary Benn - who is firmly in the Remain camp.

:01:35.:01:42.

First this morning - there are now 3.3 million EU

:01:43.:01:46.

nationals living in the UK, an increase of 700,000 over

:01:47.:01:49.

from the Oxford Migration Observatory, which says

:01:50.:01:53.

almost half of the 700,000 were from Poland and Romania.

:01:54.:01:56.

Spain, Italy and Portugal accounted for almost

:01:57.:01:59.

So is this all grist to the mill for the Leave campaign?

:02:00.:02:09.

Hilary Benn, do you think the issue of freedom of movement will decide

:02:10.:02:15.

who wins this argument? No, not in the end, because of the economic

:02:16.:02:22.

argument remaining in the EU being extremely strong, not least because

:02:23.:02:25.

of those workers that you are referring to, who make a net

:02:26.:02:29.

contribution to the British economy. They pay more tax than they take

:02:30.:02:32.

out, they help to paper the NHS, care for the elderly and things like

:02:33.:02:36.

that. And secondly because if we wish to retain access to the biggest

:02:37.:02:41.

in the market in the world, then it's quite clear that we would have

:02:42.:02:44.

to continue to accept free movement, because that's what Norway and

:02:45.:02:48.

Switzerland have to do, and I think, in the end, people will decide the

:02:49.:02:52.

economic argument and the economic risks and we've seen the IMF report

:02:53.:02:55.

that Kmart yesterday, talking about the risk if we were to leave. Our

:02:56.:03:01.

group that came out yesterday. We will talk about the IMF and other

:03:02.:03:11.

institutions in a moment. You've got conflicting information. The think

:03:12.:03:14.

tank open Europe says immigration is unlikely to fall in the event of

:03:15.:03:18.

Brexit because of examples of other large, developed countries with the

:03:19.:03:28.

low unemployment... What would you like to sequence Bob people accept

:03:29.:03:33.

immigration because we have an expanding economy but we need

:03:34.:03:36.

control and we don't have control. When I was at Defra, we had a scheme

:03:37.:03:39.

which is brought in skilled people to pick fruit. I saw an eye surgeon

:03:40.:03:45.

two weeks ago, absolutely furious that she counsels Morris be rinsed,

:03:46.:03:50.

better qualified, more skilled eye surgeons from California, Sutherland

:03:51.:03:56.

rear -- southern India or Hong Kong. We need a policy so that we can

:03:57.:03:59.

bring in targeted, skilled people in a whole range of sectors. But the

:04:00.:04:04.

numbers may not change? The numbers depend on what our economy requires

:04:05.:04:06.

but let's get the power to decide this in our own Parliament by people

:04:07.:04:10.

who we kick out of their make the wrong decisions. That's the

:04:11.:04:13.

difference stop if we accept Owen Paterson's argument that the numbers

:04:14.:04:16.

may not change that much, or they may vary, but it will be us that

:04:17.:04:21.

decides what sort of people come in and Tuesdays with the right skills.

:04:22.:04:25.

If Owen is accepting that the numbers may not change, then what's

:04:26.:04:29.

the point of leaving the EU? And this point about the single market,

:04:30.:04:33.

because the two are intimately connected, I think it's very clear

:04:34.:04:36.

that if we were to vote to leave, the EU would say, well, if you wish

:04:37.:04:39.

to continue to have full access to the single market, with all other

:04:40.:04:43.

benefits it brings for jobs, investment and economic growth, you

:04:44.:04:47.

will have to what Norway does, which is to pay into the European budget.

:04:48.:04:51.

They pay almost the same per head of population. You have to accept all

:04:52.:04:57.

of the rules - you do - you have to accept free movement. The only

:04:58.:05:01.

difference is that we will have removed ourselves from the room when

:05:02.:05:03.

it comes to making decisions about others in the market works. How does

:05:04.:05:08.

that make us better off? Is that the case, that it could be a trade-off?

:05:09.:05:12.

The quid pro quo will be that you do still have to have some sort of

:05:13.:05:16.

freedom of movement, otherwise we won't give you full access? We will

:05:17.:05:21.

give you access but not full access. We are the fifth largest economy in

:05:22.:05:25.

the world. We have the fastest growth. We will be able to get

:05:26.:05:31.

control of our own policy, in our own Parliament, and people are very

:05:32.:05:33.

angry about this, because they've had no say on this issue, because we

:05:34.:05:37.

don't control this policy and they know Beverley well that people can

:05:38.:05:41.

bowl about Victoria station this afternoon, drawn in by our growing

:05:42.:05:44.

economy, and there is no decision on our part of who comes goes. That

:05:45.:05:49.

will change if we get control of our own policy can stop the numbers

:05:50.:05:52.

depend on how fast the economy is growing and which sectors one which

:05:53.:05:55.

people. We want targeted policy, bringing the right people for the

:05:56.:05:59.

right jobs at the right time. At the moment there is no stopping people

:06:00.:06:02.

coming from the EU in large numbers, not just from Eastern Europe but

:06:03.:06:06.

from southern Europe, where the economies are still recovering, from

:06:07.:06:10.

Italy, from Portugal. Interviews all morning about the fact that in Spain

:06:11.:06:13.

young Spanish people cannot get jobs that pay anything like the rate that

:06:14.:06:17.

they are going to be paid here and, again, we wouldn't be able to do

:06:18.:06:21.

anything about that. That is true and the prospects for young people

:06:22.:06:23.

in Spain are pretty grim. It's one of the reasons why our decision on

:06:24.:06:28.

the last Labour government decision, not to join the euro was wise of

:06:29.:06:32.

time and even more wise in hindsight. But they are coming and

:06:33.:06:36.

contributing to the economy. They are often low skilled workers. To

:06:37.:06:42.

constantly assert that we will be able to continue to get access to

:06:43.:06:46.

the single market on current terms and not have to accept free

:06:47.:06:49.

movement, there is no evidence for that whatsoever, and the problem

:06:50.:06:53.

with your argument, Owen, is that you won't control it and I wouldn't

:06:54.:06:56.

control it in the event was voting to leave. It would be the other

:06:57.:07:02.

member states. And the choice people have to make is, do we stick with

:07:03.:07:05.

what we know and what we've got, which is access to the larger single

:07:06.:07:09.

market in the world, with all of the benefits, or do we take a risk on

:07:10.:07:12.

not getting as good a deal? And you can't promise the deal will be as

:07:13.:07:17.

good, can you? It's looking like we are going to win because ICM gave us

:07:18.:07:20.

the 3-point lead last night. We will have a massive mandate from the

:07:21.:07:24.

British people. This is a key issue in the campaign and we will be

:07:25.:07:27.

negotiating from a position of enormous strength. That changes the

:07:28.:07:30.

whole debate. We are the fifth largest economy in the world. We are

:07:31.:07:33.

saying we want control of our own borders, to decide who comes in and

:07:34.:07:37.

when. We don't have that control now and there are people watching this

:07:38.:07:39.

who are completely infuriated by that. How damaging do you think it

:07:40.:07:47.

is that institutions like the IMF put out statements saying, and

:07:48.:07:51.

highlighting, the risks, the uncertainty? Do they have as much

:07:52.:07:55.

sway as the government would have us believe? Well, the good news is, the

:07:56.:08:00.

IMF has got a track record of getting forecast heroically wrong.

:08:01.:08:04.

They completely missed the 2008 recession. They weren't alone on

:08:05.:08:08.

that. They told us that George Osborne's sensible measures to get

:08:09.:08:11.

public spending back under control would lead to a terrible shock in

:08:12.:08:15.

2013. Christine Lagarde actually said, "Do I have to go on my knees

:08:16.:08:19.

to George Osborne to apologise?" So I think we can relax about this.

:08:20.:08:25.

Doom and gloom, if you put your head in the oven, and what it is showing

:08:26.:08:29.

is that the UK will continue to have the fastest growth in Europe and we

:08:30.:08:32.

come down or .3 points. Does anybody care? The IMF is an institution,

:08:33.:08:38.

within these hallowed walls in Westminster, people care about what

:08:39.:08:42.

institutions think but out on the streets, people are thinking, this

:08:43.:08:45.

is the time to be antiestablishment. We don't want to be told what is

:08:46.:08:49.

better for us by these lofty organisations like the IMF. Will it

:08:50.:08:54.

actually sway any books? In the end, people have got to make a choice. --

:08:55.:08:59.

sway any votes. I'm convinced there will be an adverse economic impact

:09:00.:09:03.

if we leave. It's why every single survey of business opinion has shown

:09:04.:09:06.

that majority of those polled in those organisations have said that

:09:07.:09:11.

we should remain in the European Union and, look, if we don't get the

:09:12.:09:15.

deal, you confidently but it that we will but I don't make it so sure,

:09:16.:09:19.

they might say free trade and industry, of course they might. When

:09:20.:09:23.

it comes to services, which is really important for the British

:09:24.:09:25.

economy, they might say, we are not so sure about that. The Leave

:09:26.:09:30.

campaign say, let's be like Canada. At stake in seven years and isn't

:09:31.:09:33.

yet a done deal and it doesn't give them full access to the single

:09:34.:09:39.

market. -- it's taken seven years. The fact is, in the end, people have

:09:40.:09:44.

to decide, do they feel that we have benefited economically and will

:09:45.:09:46.

continue to benefit and be better off because we are in the EU? That

:09:47.:09:51.

sounds like you don't think the IMF will actually have that much sway in

:09:52.:09:55.

itself. It may feed into, as you say, arguments about uncertainty

:09:56.:10:00.

generally. What about the press? We haven't had that many official

:10:01.:10:03.

declarations in terms of in or out that there are stories on Adobe

:10:04.:10:07.

bases from the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Sun, pro-British stories.

:10:08.:10:12.

How worried are you about that? The press will do what the press... What

:10:13.:10:18.

about the influence? People have to decide. People may say, look, I

:10:19.:10:24.

don't like ripping about the European Union. This is not a

:10:25.:10:27.

referendum about whether you love the European Union. It's about, what

:10:28.:10:31.

is the wise thing to do? And I think people will go into the polling

:10:32.:10:34.

booth and decide, I may not like this or that but do I really want to

:10:35.:10:38.

take a risk on us damaging our future economic prospects by

:10:39.:10:42.

leaving? And that's where the IMF warning yesterday will have an

:10:43.:10:46.

impact. They are leaving us. They are going to form a new coherent

:10:47.:10:50.

state around the eurozone, from which we will be excluded. There is

:10:51.:10:54.

dirty work of the crosswords. Yesterday a debate of European

:10:55.:10:56.

Parliament that the IMF should take our seat. That is what is happening

:10:57.:11:03.

and we will be excluded from major decisions stop we need to get back

:11:04.:11:09.

control, and back our full seat and all the governing bodies that decide

:11:10.:11:11.

regulation and we will completely recover man's world trade. We are

:11:12.:11:16.

the great free trading nation and we want to go completely international,

:11:17.:11:18.

working with all our historical links, and that would be a massive

:11:19.:11:23.

and if it, not just a hard-working people here but some of the poorest

:11:24.:11:26.

people. That is so wrong because being in the EU, the truth is, it

:11:27.:11:30.

strengthens our voice in a whole range of fields. I am going to stop

:11:31.:11:36.

this discussion at this moment. Very temporarily!

:11:37.:11:38.

Now, the Culture Secretary, John Whittingdale,

:11:39.:11:39.

But the story of his relationship with a dominatrix, which ended

:11:40.:11:45.

more than two years ago, hasn't been reported until now,

:11:46.:11:48.

despite the fact that journalists at several newspapers were aware

:11:49.:11:51.

So has a conspiracy of silence protected the minister who oversees

:11:52.:11:56.

the media - or was the story just not newsworthy enough to print?

:11:57.:12:01.

Earlier this month, the journalism website Byline reported

:12:02.:12:06.

John Whittingdale had a previous relationship with a professional

:12:07.:12:09.

But the story stayed out of the newspapers.

:12:10.:12:15.

Mr Whittingdale said that when he discovered the truth

:12:16.:12:19.

about what she did in February 2014, he ended the relationship.

:12:20.:12:23.

At the time of the relationship, Mr Whittingdale was chairman

:12:24.:12:26.

of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, a post

:12:27.:12:28.

But campaigners against press intrusion say the fact the story

:12:29.:12:35.

wasn't reported has raised questions about a potential conflict

:12:36.:12:39.

of interest involving the man in charge of media regulation

:12:40.:12:44.

and the motivation of newspapers and broadcasters not to report it.

:12:45.:12:48.

Four newspapers - the People, the Mail on Sunday, the Sun

:12:49.:12:50.

and the Independent - learned about it but decided not

:12:51.:12:54.

In a statement, Mr Whittingdale said what he called

:12:55.:13:00.

an old story had no influence on any decisions he had taken

:13:01.:13:04.

Labour has called for him to withdraw from any further

:13:05.:13:10.

Number Ten said Mr Whittingdale was a "single man and entitled

:13:11.:13:16.

to a private life" and had the full confidence of the Prime Minister.

:13:17.:13:20.

This is what he had to say this morning

:13:21.:13:22.

Can you really successfully regulate the press after last

:13:23.:13:28.

What about what Labour are saying this morning...

:13:29.:13:34.

That you shouldn't be taking decisions about the press?

:13:35.:13:37.

We're joined now by former Lib Dem MP and campaigner

:13:38.:13:40.

against press intrusion, Evan Harris.

:13:41.:13:43.

Welcome to the programme. You were with Hacked Off for years and years.

:13:44.:13:53.

Patkar off has been complaining -- Hacked Off has been complaining

:13:54.:13:58.

about press intrusion. Now there has been a decision that there was no

:13:59.:14:01.

public interest in intruding and you are complaining about. The Secretary

:14:02.:14:06.

of State should not be regulating the press. John Whittingdale has

:14:07.:14:10.

done two things that are unique. He has first decided to avert the

:14:11.:14:14.

Government's previous policy that there will be a second part of the

:14:15.:14:17.

Leveson Inquiry to look at the cover of the police and the press and the

:14:18.:14:21.

corporate governance failures on hacking, and to cancel a cover-up

:14:22.:14:26.

investigation is a serious matter. The Prime Minister said it will go

:14:27.:14:30.

ahead. John Whittingdale in 2013 said it will go ahead. Now his

:14:31.:14:34.

position is, it might not. What evidence do you have that any of

:14:35.:14:37.

these decisions were taken because he knew that the papers have these

:14:38.:14:40.

stories? The second thing he's done is that Parliament passed a law to

:14:41.:14:46.

give victims access to justice, to sue the press and to encourage

:14:47.:14:49.

newspapers into the royal charter system. As you know, laws need to be

:14:50.:14:55.

commenced by a signature of the Secretary of State without further

:14:56.:14:59.

action. He has chosen to suspend indefinitely commencement of that,

:15:00.:15:02.

to the applause of the Society of editors to use conferencing made

:15:03.:15:05.

this announcement without any consultation. What is the answer to

:15:06.:15:11.

my question? I asked him in a recent meeting... What evidence is there

:15:12.:15:17.

that given John Whittingdale has a long track record of being against

:15:18.:15:25.

Leveson style regulation... In the Guardian he made it clear in 2012 as

:15:26.:15:30.

part of the social media profile that he was opposed to Leveson. In

:15:31.:15:31.

2012 he was. He voted in favour of it in March

:15:32.:15:40.

2013 and spoke out in favour of it when the report was announced in

:15:41.:15:44.

November. There may be something inaccurate a newspaper... But I've

:15:45.:15:50.

met him... John Whittingdale has always opposed Levenson. That is

:15:51.:15:57.

wrong. That is wrong. The government's policy, there was a

:15:58.:16:00.

cross-party agreement signed, was that there would be a part two and

:16:01.:16:04.

these incentives and access to justice would come forward. What is

:16:05.:16:10.

the evidence? I want to tell you what he told me, I asked why he had

:16:11.:16:14.

taken the power to decide whether to sign into law this thing that

:16:15.:16:18.

Parliament passed, and he said it would keep the press on their toes.

:16:19.:16:23.

It is not the job of a Secretary of State to do that and until they give

:16:24.:16:27.

an alternative reason for why the government has decided to intervene

:16:28.:16:30.

in press regulation, which all parties opposed, newspaper opposed,

:16:31.:16:36.

there is no other reason why he would be doing that if it wasn't a

:16:37.:16:40.

suspicion that he wanted to please the editors to stop them. So you are

:16:41.:16:47.

claiming that he has acted as a minister in the ways you have

:16:48.:16:51.

described because he knew the newspapers were looking at the

:16:52.:16:55.

story? There appears to be no other explanation unless it is the case

:16:56.:16:59.

that the Prime Minister breaks or promises he makes to victims and to

:17:00.:17:03.

Parliament regardless. What evidence do you have for this? If this was

:17:04.:17:10.

not the case, why would he not have told the Prime Minister on

:17:11.:17:13.

appointment, they have got this story on me, there is no public

:17:14.:17:17.

interest justification and they have not published but if it ever got out

:17:18.:17:21.

it might be implied there is a conflict of interest. They know I

:17:22.:17:25.

did not declare an overseas trip that arguably should have been

:17:26.:17:29.

declared. How did he know when he became a minister that the press

:17:30.:17:33.

were investigating this? It has been made clear in the articles

:17:34.:17:37.

published, that not originally in the newspapers but on the website...

:17:38.:17:41.

You don't know whether he was appointed that he knew the

:17:42.:17:44.

newspapers were looking at the story. I think that has been made

:17:45.:17:50.

clear. Do you know? That is a question that should be put to him.

:17:51.:17:54.

You made the claim that he should have told the Prime Minister. And

:17:55.:17:58.

asking if he knew there were investigations going on and you are

:17:59.:18:02.

telling me you don't know. -- I am asking. It has not been disputed by

:18:03.:18:08.

him that he was approached and he said at the time that he ended it

:18:09.:18:12.

when I found out what she did. If that is the case, then he should

:18:13.:18:18.

have told the Prime Minister, if it isn't, his position is much better.

:18:19.:18:21.

If he didn't know they had a story, how could it be influencing him? A

:18:22.:18:30.

journalist for the independent, has hacked off been working with him? He

:18:31.:18:36.

has been following the trial. Have you been working with him on the

:18:37.:18:41.

story? Even though a lot of people on social media have treated this

:18:42.:18:45.

story which has been going around for a long time, you will not find

:18:46.:18:50.

that Hacked Off has linked to this story. You have not been working

:18:51.:18:58.

with Mystic you sick? No. -- with Mr Cusack. We were asked if we had any

:18:59.:19:05.

reason to believe if John Whittingdale was seeking to appease

:19:06.:19:07.

the press and by keeping the examples are given new and we also

:19:08.:19:11.

applied Hansard references where John Whittingdale said there must be

:19:12.:19:16.

part to Levenson and we will implement the crime and court act.

:19:17.:19:22.

Is it not the case in this original story, as it was pitched, that it

:19:23.:19:26.

was not as we subsequently discovered, that he was dating

:19:27.:19:30.

someone and he discovered what she was and he ended the dating, but

:19:31.:19:36.

that he had been actively using this prostitute and that was the original

:19:37.:19:40.

story and it turned out that there was no evidence for that, isn't that

:19:41.:19:46.

the case? I have no idea. If there is no public interest in the story,

:19:47.:19:51.

we don't believe, just like we don't believe with this is deliberately

:19:52.:19:55.

threesome that the press desperately want to publish... Do you think it

:19:56.:20:01.

should be published? No. You don't believe the story of the celebrity

:20:02.:20:06.

should be published despite... A judge has said there is no public

:20:07.:20:10.

interest. We follow the rule of law, you may not. Editors might... It has

:20:11.:20:20.

been published in Scotland. There was a judgment that said that rights

:20:21.:20:26.

were engaged on both sides, freedom of expression and article eight

:20:27.:20:28.

rights of privacy including the children and the judge said that on

:20:29.:20:32.

the facts known to the judge, it should not be published. I respect

:20:33.:20:37.

the judgment... We all respect but do you agree? If a judge had gone

:20:38.:20:46.

the other way... I don't believe it is my job nor do I believe it is

:20:47.:20:51.

John Whittingdale's job to decide what the press should print. There

:20:52.:20:55.

is a code of practice and should be an independent regulator and should

:20:56.:20:59.

be the rule of law. Is it not the case that Hacked Off has been

:21:00.:21:02.

pushing the line that the Mail on Sunday was ready to publish this

:21:03.:21:06.

story but senior editors and management in their organisation

:21:07.:21:10.

intervened and that is the line your organisation has been pushing

:21:11.:21:12.

privately? It was then discovered there was not a shred of evidence to

:21:13.:21:17.

establish that, if that's not the case. James Cusack, who had the

:21:18.:21:24.

courage to publish press issues, said in his article, which people

:21:25.:21:30.

can read online, that the independent told him that their

:21:31.:21:34.

landlords, the Daily Mail, did not want the independent running this

:21:35.:21:39.

story, the public interest aspects of it because it would damage their

:21:40.:21:44.

asset. It's quite clear. Do you have any evidence that the Mail on Sunday

:21:45.:21:51.

pulled this story? I saw what was written in the Independent. That is

:21:52.:21:58.

not in the -- that is not evidence. They have not defended their

:21:59.:22:01.

actions, I don't know why you are asking me. What I'm trying to find

:22:02.:22:06.

out is how close Hacked Off were involved in getting this story out.

:22:07.:22:11.

We had no involvement in any of the stuff to do with the allegations on

:22:12.:22:16.

his private life. We were asked not just by that journalist but by

:22:17.:22:20.

others if there was any evidence that John Whittingdale has changed

:22:21.:22:25.

government policy giving himself power over the press and we said

:22:26.:22:28.

yes. He had said it is not necessarily the case that Levenson

:22:29.:22:38.

part two will go ahead. Sajid Javid said it would not go ahead. No, he

:22:39.:22:47.

didn't. It's my job to know what this they said. I know you think of

:22:48.:22:51.

nothing else but that's my understanding of it, that

:22:52.:22:55.

essentially Sajid Javid killed this. Let me ask Owen Paterson, whenever

:22:56.:23:03.

Mr Whittingdale found out there were press investigations into this,

:23:04.:23:06.

should he not have informed the Prime Minister? I think this is a

:23:07.:23:14.

most extreme the outbreak of humbug. John had done nothing wrong. When he

:23:15.:23:19.

was a backbencher, as soon as he found out that the woman he was

:23:20.:23:23.

having an affair which had an embarrassing background, he stopped

:23:24.:23:25.

the whole thing, 14 months before he became a cabinet minister. When he

:23:26.:23:33.

found out there were several newspapers come up to four, looking

:23:34.:23:37.

at this and looking to make something of it, if there was ought

:23:38.:23:41.

not, that is another matter, but given his role as culture Secretary,

:23:42.:23:46.

should he not have informed the Prime Minister? I don't know when he

:23:47.:23:52.

found out and I don't know what form investigations took, investigations

:23:53.:23:55.

go on the whole time. By sometime last year, he knew that there were

:23:56.:24:01.

these investigations into his relationship. That is clear, that is

:24:02.:24:10.

true. He has not denied that. You're talking about evidence as if he is

:24:11.:24:17.

some rogue elephant pounding around making his old policy. He has made

:24:18.:24:21.

it clear he does not want state intervention in the press and he is

:24:22.:24:24.

right on that and any major position on this will be a collective

:24:25.:24:27.

government 's decision and he will talk to the Prime Minister. We are

:24:28.:24:35.

back to square one. The court case is going on, it seems sensible to

:24:36.:24:39.

wait until it is over. Do you believe that as a result of this

:24:40.:24:43.

that Mr Whittingdale should no longer be involved in the press

:24:44.:24:50.

regulation element of his job? First of all, his private life is his own

:24:51.:24:55.

affair and frankly, it is nobody else's business, that is an

:24:56.:24:59.

important principle. The thing I would like him to do, and where I

:25:00.:25:04.

agree, is to get on with implementing those two further

:25:05.:25:07.

changes. Our main criticism of him is that he has not done as far, part

:25:08.:25:17.

two of the inquiry and the access to justice, and if he did that, we

:25:18.:25:20.

could move on because that is what is required. I agree. I know that

:25:21.:25:26.

you are in favour of going down that route, that was not what I asked. I

:25:27.:25:34.

asked, as a result of this story in the fact that the press was

:25:35.:25:38.

investigating it, should he no longer be involved in any element of

:25:39.:25:43.

the press regulation? I don't think that'll happen, is no sign it will

:25:44.:25:49.

happen. He should get on and do his job. And that is to implement those

:25:50.:25:59.

two... It was said that he should step back from any further

:26:00.:26:03.

decisions. I don't think that will happen, that is what Maria said but

:26:04.:26:06.

I don't think it will happen. What she meant was that the Secretary of

:26:07.:26:12.

State should have no role. The Prime Minister has said that Levenson is

:26:13.:26:16.

right and the government should stay out of this. He should not be

:26:17.:26:20.

putting his thing over commencement of legislation that effect the

:26:21.:26:24.

press. Now the story is out, there was nothing to hold over him. We

:26:25.:26:31.

will see where it ends up. Thank you very much.

:26:32.:26:32.

Now, it's well known that I'm partial to a drop of Blue Nun -

:26:33.:26:35.

a very wise choice for the responsible drinker

:26:36.:26:37.

But while here I'm only supposed to drink a measly 14 glasses a week,

:26:38.:26:43.

if I moved to Chile I could safely quaff up to seven glasses a day!

:26:44.:26:54.

Researchers at Stanford University have revealed the huge discrepancies

:26:55.:26:58.

in official guidance on alcohol consumption - drinkers in Poland

:26:59.:27:00.

and Vietnam are told they can drink two and half times as much as us

:27:01.:27:04.

While in Australia, the size of a standard drink is over

:27:05.:27:09.

Why not follow Jo Co's approach and just have a nice cup of tea,

:27:10.:27:17.

To be in with a chance to win one of these,

:27:18.:27:26.

see if you can remember when all of this happened.

:27:27.:27:32.

Thousands have gathered to watch, the fate of this rare visitor

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In May last year, hoodies became political.

:27:58.:28:17.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,

:28:18.:28:42.

send your answer to our special quiz email address -

:28:43.:28:45.

Entries must arrive by 12.30pm today, and you can see the full

:28:46.:28:50.

terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:28:51.:28:52.

I'm glad you got all that out! It is coming up to midday on Wednesday,

:28:53.:29:09.

there is Big Ben on a lovely spring day here in London and that must

:29:10.:29:14.

mean Prime Minister's Questions are underway and Laura Kuenssberg is

:29:15.:29:19.

here. Where does Jeremy Corbyn start today? It's quite difficult to know.

:29:20.:29:25.

Sometimes you can have too much choice and as we have seen recently,

:29:26.:29:31.

he will decide on one subject and go through that rather doggedly. He

:29:32.:29:36.

also likes to stick to his subjects. Would he do anything else on tax?

:29:37.:29:45.

Possibly Labour feel they made some ground on this fallout from the

:29:46.:29:49.

Panama Papers. It is interesting because a few Labour MPs have said

:29:50.:29:53.

to me, it was good because it was something they could unite around

:29:54.:29:58.

and that felt different for them. So often since Jeremy Corbyn has been

:29:59.:30:03.

in charge it has been disunity and disharmony and things being awkward.

:30:04.:30:09.

Even at the top of the party! We were thinking about steel, personal

:30:10.:30:17.

independent payment, tax... And the speed of the news cycle now seems to

:30:18.:30:22.

get ever faster. We went into the Easter break with steel being the

:30:23.:30:27.

big domestic story and what could be done to save the steel industry.

:30:28.:30:32.

Then the Panama Papers came out of the blue and that dominated and that

:30:33.:30:39.

then moved onto a story about tax returns and the Panama Papers were

:30:40.:30:47.

kept behind. Now we have John press intrusion, it is difficult to keep

:30:48.:30:50.

up with it -- we have John Whittingdale. It is quite

:30:51.:30:57.

exhausting. Maybe there is a danger because things happen so quickly

:30:58.:31:00.

that political parties are just beginning to get their heads round

:31:01.:31:04.

them and what they might do or not do about an issue before moving onto

:31:05.:31:09.

the next thing. I would say, in the background of all of this at the

:31:10.:31:12.

moment, which is why the difficulties on different front the

:31:13.:31:17.

government is having, whether about tax all John Whittingdale, it is the

:31:18.:31:21.

backdrop of the EU referendum which is creating a unique and intense

:31:22.:31:25.

pressure on what the government is doing. Let's go straight to the

:31:26.:31:26.

Commons. Warning this morning I had meetings

:31:27.:31:35.

with ministerial colleagues and in addition to my duties in this House,

:31:36.:31:38.

I shall have further such meetings later today. Last week I visited a

:31:39.:31:50.

manufacturing company, which supplied the Tower of London

:31:51.:31:52.

poppies. Would my right honourable friend agree with me that supporting

:31:53.:31:56.

small businesses and personal web of further increasing personal income

:31:57.:32:02.

tax allowance shows that we on this side of the House are the party of

:32:03.:32:04.

enterprise and inspiration and believe in enabling hard-working

:32:05.:32:07.

people to keep more of the money they earn? Let me join her in

:32:08.:32:13.

congratulating the firm that she mentioned. She's absolutely right

:32:14.:32:16.

that it is small and medium-size businesses that predominantly will

:32:17.:32:20.

be providing the jobs of the future and we want people to keep more of

:32:21.:32:24.

their own money to spend as they choose. That's why the historic move

:32:25.:32:28.

last week to an ?11,000 personal allowance means that people will

:32:29.:32:33.

have gained, by 2018. They'll be paying ?1000 less per taxpayer and

:32:34.:32:40.

we will have taken formally and of the lowest paid people out of tax

:32:41.:32:43.

altogether. That is the action of the Progressive Conservative

:32:44.:32:48.

government. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm sure the whole

:32:49.:32:53.

house will join me in mourning the death today of the dramatist Arnold

:32:54.:32:59.

Wesker, one of the great playwrights of this country, one of those

:33:00.:33:02.

wonderful angry young men of the 1950s and, like so many angry young

:33:03.:33:06.

people, actually changed the face of our country. Yesterday, Mr Speaker,

:33:07.:33:12.

the European Commission announced new proposals on country by country

:33:13.:33:17.

tax reporting, so that companies must declare where they make their

:33:18.:33:25.

profits in the EU and in blacklisted tax havens. Conservative MEPs voted

:33:26.:33:28.

against the proposal for country by country reporting and against the

:33:29.:33:33.

blacklisting. Can the Prime Minister now assure us that Conservative MEPs

:33:34.:33:38.

will support the new proposal? First of all, let me join the right

:33:39.:33:42.

honourable gentleman in mourning the loss of the famous playwright and

:33:43.:33:44.

all the work that he did. It's quite right to mention that. Let me... Let

:33:45.:33:49.

me also welcome... Let me welcome the

:33:50.:33:56.

country by country tax reporting proposal put forward by Commissioner

:33:57.:34:02.

Jonathan Hill, appointed by this government, the United Kingdom

:34:03.:34:05.

Commissioner. This is very much based on the work that we've been

:34:06.:34:10.

doing, leading the collaboration between countries, making sure that

:34:11.:34:14.

we share tax information. As we discussed on Monday, this has gone

:34:15.:34:18.

far faster and far further under this government than under any

:34:19.:34:24.

previous government. Mr Speaker, if the proposals were put forward by

:34:25.:34:27.

the British Government, wider Conservative MEPs then vote against

:34:28.:34:31.

them? Their scenes to be a bit of a disconnect here. -- there seems to

:34:32.:34:40.

be. The Panama papers exposed scandal situation, where wealthy

:34:41.:34:43.

individuals seems to believe that corporation tax and other taxes are

:34:44.:34:49.

something optional. Indeed, as the Member for Rutland and Melton

:34:50.:34:51.

informed us, it is only for low achievers, apparently for top so

:34:52.:34:56.

when the HMRC says that the tax gap is ?34 billion, why, then, is he

:34:57.:35:04.

cutting HMRC staff by 20% and cutting down tax offices which loses

:35:05.:35:09.

the expertise of people to close that tax gap? I'm glad he wants to

:35:10.:35:16.

get onto our responsibilities to pay our taxes. I think that's very

:35:17.:35:21.

important. I thought his tax return was a metaphor for Labour policy. It

:35:22.:35:25.

was late, it was chaotic, it was inaccurate, it was costed. --

:35:26.:35:34.

un-costed. He's absolutely right to identify the tax gap and that is why

:35:35.:35:41.

we closed off loopholes in the last Parliament, equivalent of ?12

:35:42.:35:45.

billion. We aim to close loopholes in this Parliament equivalent to ?16

:35:46.:35:51.

billion, so the HMRC is taking very strong action, backed by this

:35:52.:35:54.

government, backed by the Chancellor, legislated for by this

:35:55.:35:57.

House, and I think I'm right in saying that since 2010 we put over

:35:58.:36:04.

?1 billion into HMRC to increase its capabilities to collect the tax that

:36:05.:36:08.

people should be paying. The difference, I think, between this

:36:09.:36:11.

side of the House on the right honourable gentleman is we believe

:36:12.:36:14.

in setting low tax rates and encouraging people to pay them and

:36:15.:36:20.

it's working. Mr Speaker, I'm grateful to the Prime Minister for

:36:21.:36:24.

drawing attention to my own tax return. There warts and all, the

:36:25.:36:31.

warts being my handwriting all my generous donation to HMRC. I paid

:36:32.:36:41.

taxes for companies that he might know quite well. The Prime

:36:42.:36:49.

Minister... Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister isn't cutting tax abuse,

:36:50.:36:54.

he's cutting down on tax collectors. The tax collected helps to fund our

:36:55.:36:59.

NHS and all the other services. Last month, the OBR reported that HMRC

:37:00.:37:05.

doesn't have the necessary resources to tackle offshore tax disclosures.

:37:06.:37:12.

The Government is committed to taking ?400 million out of HMRC's

:37:13.:37:16.

budget by 2020. Will he now commit to reversing that cut, so that we

:37:17.:37:20.

can collect the tax that will help to pay for the services? I'm afraid

:37:21.:37:25.

his figures, rather like his tax return, aren't entirely accurate.

:37:26.:37:33.

The summer budget 2015, we gave an extra ?800 million to HMRC to fund

:37:34.:37:36.

additional work to tackle tax evasion and noncompliance between

:37:37.:37:40.

now and 2021. This is going to enable HMRC to recover equivalent of

:37:41.:37:46.

7.2 billion in tax over the next five years and we've all be brought

:37:47.:37:49.

in more than 2 billion from offshore tax evaders since 2010. -- we've

:37:50.:37:54.

already brought in. I think we should try and bring some consensus

:37:55.:37:59.

to this issue. For years in this country, Labour governments and

:38:00.:38:01.

Conservative governments have an attitude to the Crown dependencies

:38:02.:38:05.

and overseas territories that their tax affairs were a matter for them

:38:06.:38:09.

and their compliance affairs were out of them and their transparency

:38:10.:38:12.

was a matter for them. This government has changed that. We've

:38:13.:38:16.

got the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies the table. We

:38:17.:38:20.

said, you've got to have registers of ownership, you got to collaborate

:38:21.:38:24.

with the UK Government, you got to make sure people don't hide their

:38:25.:38:27.

taxes, and it's happening. So when he gets to his feet, he should

:38:28.:38:30.

welcome the fact that huge progress has been made, raising taxes,

:38:31.:38:35.

sorting out the overseas territories and Crown dependencies, closing the

:38:36.:38:39.

tax gap, getting businesses to pay more, giving international

:38:40.:38:41.

leadership to this issue, all things that never happened under Labour. Mr

:38:42.:38:48.

Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for that answer. The only problem

:38:49.:38:52.

with it is that the red book states HMRC spending will fall from 3.3

:38:53.:39:00.

billion to 2.9 billion by 20 20. And in regard to UK Crown dependencies

:39:01.:39:04.

and overseas territories, only two days ago the Prime Minister said

:39:05.:39:09.

that he had agreed that they will provide, the overseas territories,

:39:10.:39:15.

UK law enforcement and tax agencies with full access to information on

:39:16.:39:17.

the beneficial ownership of companies. There seems to be some

:39:18.:39:20.

confusion here because the chief minister of Jersey said, in response

:39:21.:39:26.

to a need for information without delay, where terrorist activities

:39:27.:39:29.

are involved. We welcome his commitment to fighting terrorism but

:39:30.:39:35.

is Jersey and all the other dependencies actually going to

:39:36.:39:37.

provide beneficial ownership information or not? The short answer

:39:38.:39:42.

to that is yes, they are. And that is what is such a big breakthrough.

:39:43.:39:46.

I totally accept they are not going as far as us because we are

:39:47.:39:49.

publishing a register of beneficial ownership. That will happen in June

:39:50.:39:53.

and we will be one of the only countries in the world to do so. I

:39:54.:39:56.

think Norway and Spain are the others. What the overseas

:39:57.:39:59.

territories and Crown dependencies are doing is making sure that we

:40:00.:40:04.

have full access to registers of beneficial ownership, to make sure

:40:05.:40:06.

that people aren't invading or avoiding their taxes. In the

:40:07.:40:11.

interests of giving full answers to his questions, let me give him the

:40:12.:40:17.

figures for full-time equivalents in HMRC in terms of compliance. The

:40:18.:40:24.

numbers are going from 25,020 ten to 26,798 in 2015. It's not how much

:40:25.:40:29.

money you spend on the organisation but how many people you have out

:40:30.:40:33.

there collecting the taxes and making sure the forms are properly

:40:34.:40:40.

filled in. The Prime Minister is quite right. The number of people

:40:41.:40:44.

out there collecting taxes is important. Therefore, why has he

:40:45.:40:48.

laid off so many staff at HMRC who their four cannot collect those

:40:49.:40:54.

taxes? In 2013, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister demanded that the

:40:55.:40:58.

overseas territories rip aside the cloak of secrecy by creating a

:40:59.:41:02.

public register of beneficial ownership of information. Will he

:41:03.:41:08.

now make it clear that the beneficial ownership register will

:41:09.:41:14.

be an absolutely public document, transparent for all to see who

:41:15.:41:19.

really owns these companies, and whether they are paying their taxes

:41:20.:41:25.

or not? Let me be absolutely clear. For the United Kingdom, we have

:41:26.:41:29.

taken the unprecedented step, never done by Labour, never done

:41:30.:41:33.

previously by Conservatives, of open beneficial ownership registers with

:41:34.:41:37.

the Crown dependencies and overseas territories. They have to give full

:41:38.:41:40.

access to the registers of beneficial ownership. We did not

:41:41.:41:44.

choose the option of forcing them to have a public register because we

:41:45.:41:49.

believed if that was the case, we'd get into the situation that he spoke

:41:50.:41:53.

about, where some of them might have walked away from this cooperation

:41:54.:41:56.

altogether. That's the point. The question is, are we going to be able

:41:57.:42:00.

to access the information? Yes. Are we going to be able to be sued tax

:42:01.:42:05.

evaders? Yes. Did any of these things happen under a Labour

:42:06.:42:09.

government? No. The Prime Minister does talk very tough and I grabbed

:42:10.:42:13.

him that. The only problem is, it's not a public register he's offering

:42:14.:42:17.

us. He is only offering us a private register that some people can see.

:42:18.:42:24.

It's quite interesting that the premiere of the Cayman Islands is to

:42:25.:42:27.

day apparently celebrating his victory over the Prime Minister

:42:28.:42:32.

because he is saying the information certainly will not be available

:42:33.:42:36.

publicly or available directly by any UK on an Cayman Islands agency.

:42:37.:42:42.

The Prime Minister is supposed to be chasing down tax evasion and tax

:42:43.:42:46.

avoidance. He's supposed to be bringing it all into the open. If he

:42:47.:42:50.

cannot even persuade the premiere of the Cayman Islands or Jersey to open

:42:51.:42:55.

up their books, where is the tough talk bringing the information we

:42:56.:42:58.

need to collect the taxes that should pay for the services that

:42:59.:43:04.

people need? I think he's misunderstanding what I've said. In

:43:05.:43:10.

terms of the UK, it is an absolute first in terms of a register of

:43:11.:43:13.

beneficial ownership that is public. He keeps saying it's not public. The

:43:14.:43:18.

British one will be public. Further to that, and I think this is

:43:19.:43:21.

important because it goes to a question asked by the right

:43:22.:43:24.

honourable member for Tottenham, we are also saying to foreign companies

:43:25.:43:27.

that have dealings with Britain that they have to declare their

:43:28.:43:30.

properties and the properties they own, which will remove a huge

:43:31.:43:35.

failure of secrecy over the ownership, for instance, of London

:43:36.:43:37.

property. I'm not saying we've completed all this work but we've

:43:38.:43:42.

got more tax information exchange, mortgage so beneficial ownership,

:43:43.:43:45.

more chasing down tax evasion and avoidance, or money recovered from

:43:46.:43:48.

businesses and individuals and all of these things are things that have

:43:49.:43:52.

happened under this government. The truth is, he's running to catch up

:43:53.:43:55.

because Labour did nothing in 13 years. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My

:43:56.:44:06.

constituents John and Penny Clough, whose daughter Jane was tragically

:44:07.:44:10.

murdered by her ex-partner whilst he was out on bail, are campaigning to

:44:11.:44:15.

save Lancashire's nine women's refuges, which are currently at

:44:16.:44:17.

threat because Labour run Lancashire County Council are proposing to cut

:44:18.:44:23.

all of their funding. Does the Prime Minister agree with the Clough

:44:24.:44:27.

family and me that Labour run Lancashire County Council should

:44:28.:44:29.

prioritise the victims of domestic violence? First of all, my

:44:30.:44:37.

honourable friend does raise a very moving case and I know the whole

:44:38.:44:40.

house will wish to join me in sending our sincere condolences to

:44:41.:44:44.

Mr and Mrs Clough. In terms of making sure we stop violence against

:44:45.:44:47.

women and girls, nobody should be living in fear of these crimes. That

:44:48.:44:52.

is why we committed ?80 million of extra funding to 2020 to tackle

:44:53.:44:56.

violence against women and girls and this does include funding for

:44:57.:44:59.

securing the future for refuges and other accommodation based services.

:45:00.:45:04.

But it obviously helps if local councils make the right decisions as

:45:05.:45:11.

well. The United Kingdom and its offshore territories and

:45:12.:45:15.

dependencies collectively sits at the top of the financial secrecy

:45:16.:45:20.

index of the tax Justice network. Since the leaking of the Panama

:45:21.:45:25.

papers, France has put Panama on a blacklist of uncooperative tax

:45:26.:45:29.

havens and the Mossad Fonseca offices have been raided by the

:45:30.:45:34.

police in Panama City. What have British authorities done

:45:35.:45:38.

specifically in relation to Mossad Fonseca and with Panama since the

:45:39.:45:44.

leak of the Panama papers? First of all, in terms of who is at the top

:45:45.:45:49.

of the permit of tax secrecy, I think it is now an fair to say that

:45:50.:45:52.

about our Crown dependencies and overseas territories as they are now

:45:53.:45:56.

going to cooperate with the three things that we asked them to do in

:45:57.:46:01.

terms of the reporting standard, the exchange of tax information and

:46:02.:46:04.

access to register the beneficial ownership. That is more than we get

:46:05.:46:08.

out of some states in America, like Delaware. So I think in this House

:46:09.:46:13.

we should be tough on all those that facilitate lack of transparency but

:46:14.:46:18.

we should be accurate in the way we do it. He asked what we are doing

:46:19.:46:22.

about the Panama papers. We have a ?10 million funded cross agency

:46:23.:46:26.

review to get to the bottom of all the relevant information. It would

:46:27.:46:30.

hugely be helped if the newspapers and other investigative journalists

:46:31.:46:34.

now share this information with tax inspectors, so we can get to the

:46:35.:46:37.

bottom of it, and his final question on blacklists - we are happy to

:46:38.:46:41.

support blacklists but we don't think you should draw up a blacklist

:46:42.:46:46.

solely on the basis of a territory raising a low tax rate. We don't

:46:47.:46:49.

think that is the right approach. That approach the French have

:46:50.:46:53.

sometimes taken in the past was in terms of taking action against tax

:46:54.:46:56.

havens, this government has done more than any previous one.

:46:57.:47:06.

3250 DWP staff has been specifically investigating benefit fraud while

:47:07.:47:13.

only 300 HMRC staff have been systematically investigating tax

:47:14.:47:19.

evasion. Surely we should care equally about people abusing the tax

:47:20.:47:24.

system and those abusing the benefit system. Why has this government had

:47:25.:47:32.

ten times more staff dealing often with the poorest in society abusing

:47:33.:47:36.

benefits than with the super-rich evading their taxes? I will look

:47:37.:47:44.

carefully at his statistics but they sound to me entirely bogus for this

:47:45.:47:49.

reason. The predominant job of the DWP is to make sure that people

:47:50.:47:55.

receive their benefits. The predominant job of HMRC is to make

:47:56.:47:59.

sure people pay their taxes. The 26,000 people I spoke about earlier

:48:00.:48:03.

are all making sure that people pay their taxes, the clue is in the

:48:04.:48:18.

title. Many farmers in South Herefordshire are still awaiting

:48:19.:48:22.

their 2015 payments from the rural payments agency. Nearly four months

:48:23.:48:26.

after they were due which follows the failure of the RPA website last

:48:27.:48:31.

year which is causing great personal and financial distress and threatens

:48:32.:48:35.

the future of farm businesses so will the Prime Minister agreed to

:48:36.:48:38.

meet farmers on this issue and press the RPA to make the payments by the

:48:39.:48:42.

end of this month and does he share my view that farmers should receive

:48:43.:48:48.

interest on the amount overdue? I have recently met with both the NFU

:48:49.:48:54.

and Welsh NFU and have continued to have meetings with farming

:48:55.:48:56.

organisations including in my own constituency and I know that have

:48:57.:48:59.

been problems with the payment system. The latest figures are some

:49:00.:49:05.

-- that 87% of claims have been paid and bowed -- I believe that the

:49:06.:49:08.

figures in Herefordshire are in line with the national average but that

:49:09.:49:12.

is no consolation for those who have not received payments which is why

:49:13.:49:16.

we have a process and we are working with charities and we made payments

:49:17.:49:20.

amounting to over ?7 million but we have to make sure that the system

:49:21.:49:27.

works better in the future. If the British people vote to leave the

:49:28.:49:32.

European Union, will the Prime Minister remain in office to

:49:33.:49:36.

implement their decision? Yes. CHEERING

:49:37.:49:44.

Again on Europe, does the Prime Minister agree that the European

:49:45.:49:49.

Union is not just the world's biggest single market but also an

:49:50.:49:55.

ample source of foreign and direct investment providing 50% of the

:49:56.:49:58.

investment we receive and also an excellent platform for supplying

:49:59.:50:03.

James to thrive and prosper meaning the ability to get the skills they

:50:04.:50:08.

need and the innovation they need and for my constituency means a

:50:09.:50:15.

whole load of high-tech companies thriving and prospering as they do

:50:16.:50:21.

in the UK? I remember my visit to his constituency when the company

:50:22.:50:26.

showed me a world first in a bicycle that was printed on a 3-D printer. I

:50:27.:50:34.

did not give it a try but it looked like it might even carry some of my

:50:35.:50:40.

weight! The single market is 500 million people and that is a great

:50:41.:50:44.

market for our businesses and services and increasingly the market

:50:45.:50:47.

that the supply chain is getting more integrated and that is why we

:50:48.:50:50.

should think carefully before separating ourselves from it. Brain

:50:51.:50:56.

tumours are the biggest cancer killer of children and people under

:50:57.:51:01.

40 but despite this, research into them received less than 1%, just

:51:02.:51:07.

over 1% of the UK's national spent on cancer research. This will be the

:51:08.:51:12.

subject of a debate next Monday in Westminster Hall. Will the Prime

:51:13.:51:15.

Minister at a word with the Secretary of State for Health so

:51:16.:51:18.

that the minister answering that debate might be able to bring with

:51:19.:51:23.

him or her some long overdue good news of change in this area? I'm

:51:24.:51:29.

very happy to do exactly as he says. It is an important issue. We invest

:51:30.:51:35.

something like 1.7 billion a year in health research but there is always

:51:36.:51:38.

a question when it comes to cancer research, the spending has gone up

:51:39.:51:42.

by a third over the last Parliament the daily 100 35mm hounds but there

:51:43.:51:46.

is the question of whether that is fairly distributed -- ?135 million.

:51:47.:51:58.

I have a still produce in my constituency and share concerns

:51:59.:52:04.

about the future of the industry. The North of England still had

:52:05.:52:07.

significant manner that drink but it has been held back by green taxes,

:52:08.:52:12.

high energy costs and emissions targets. What more can he do to help

:52:13.:52:18.

energy intensive industries? I think he raises an important point and the

:52:19.:52:22.

changes we are making will save the steel industry over ?400 million by

:52:23.:52:26.

the end of this Parliament and that is a good example of what we can do.

:52:27.:52:30.

There was an excellent debate yesterday about this issue, we have

:52:31.:52:34.

to work on everything we can in terms of procurement, making sure we

:52:35.:52:37.

are taking action in the EU against dumping and we are. We have to make

:52:38.:52:42.

sure we reduce energy costs where we can and we stand by to work with any

:52:43.:52:48.

potential purchaser of the Port Talbot works which will safeguard

:52:49.:52:51.

steel jobs in other parts of the country to see how we can help on a

:52:52.:52:55.

commercial basis. I'm satisfied with doing everything we can. We cannot

:52:56.:53:01.

totally bucked the global trend of this massive overcapacity of steel

:53:02.:53:05.

and decline in prices but those are the key areas in terms of power and

:53:06.:53:09.

plant and procurement, all areas where we can help. Research by the

:53:10.:53:16.

Sutton trust shows turning schools in the academies does not

:53:17.:53:20.

necessarily improve them. Thousands of excellent primary schools,

:53:21.:53:25.

parents want them to be continued to be maintained by their local

:53:26.:53:28.

authority so why are ministers are planning to overall parents and

:53:29.:53:31.

force those schools to become academies? I think the evidence

:53:32.:53:37.

shows that academies work as part of our education reforms. Let me give

:53:38.:53:45.

the evidence. If you look at those schools that converted into

:53:46.:53:50.

academies, 88% of them are other outstanding or good schools. If you

:53:51.:53:54.

look at the sponsored academies, often failing schools, if you listen

:53:55.:54:00.

and look at what happened with the schools that were often failing but

:54:01.:54:04.

were now sponsored by academies, you have seen on average a 10%

:54:05.:54:08.

improvement over the first two years. All the evidence is that

:54:09.:54:14.

results are better, freedoms lead to improvements and where there are

:54:15.:54:18.

problems, intervention happens far faster with academies. We have 1.4

:54:19.:54:23.

million more children in good or outstanding schools and we should

:54:24.:54:24.

finish the job. The Prime Minister has met many

:54:25.:54:33.

great people but I believe he has yet to meet the Vale of Evesham very

:54:34.:54:41.

open does the asparagus man. Would you like to join me for the upcoming

:54:42.:54:47.

British asparagus festival which starts on St George's Day and show

:54:48.:54:50.

his support for our fantastic farming industry? I'm happy to say

:54:51.:54:57.

that my honourable friend's constituency is only one

:54:58.:55:02.

constituency away, we share the same railway line so if there is an

:55:03.:55:06.

opportunity for some great British asparagus I would be happy to join

:55:07.:55:12.

him. Can I take the Prime Minister back to his response to the

:55:13.:55:17.

honourable member's drop handle, it was a truly dreadful case. Women's

:55:18.:55:25.

refuges are facing absolute crisis. The changes the government proposes

:55:26.:55:29.

to make to housing benefit will force the closure of women's

:55:30.:55:36.

refuges. He needs urgently to look again at these changes because

:55:37.:55:40.

unless he makes refuges exempt, they will be closing up and down the

:55:41.:55:46.

country. Can he do it? What I would say is what we did in the last

:55:47.:55:51.

Parliament with rape crisis centres we are doing the same type of thing

:55:52.:55:56.

with these refuges and that is why the ?80 million of funding is so

:55:57.:56:01.

important. It is widely Secretary of State has written to local

:56:02.:56:03.

authorities to explain that this money is available to make sure

:56:04.:56:12.

those refuges are there. As part of world autism awareness week last

:56:13.:56:17.

week, the National Autistic Society launched its biggest ever awareness

:56:18.:56:21.

campaign. Young Alex Cunliffe the star of the film, was here in the

:56:22.:56:25.

house and met many MPs this week -- Ruairidh Young Alex, the star

:56:26.:56:31.

some 50% of autistic people don't even go out in public because of

:56:32.:56:35.

what people think and their reaction. Will he meet with me and

:56:36.:56:40.

the Cherokee to discuss how the government can support this campaign

:56:41.:56:44.

and how we can tackle the social isolation of so many families -- and

:56:45.:56:51.

the charity. Let me pay tribute to my right honourable friend who has

:56:52.:56:54.

been campaigning and legislating on this issue now for many years

:56:55.:56:57.

including the landmark legislation that went through in the last

:56:58.:57:01.

Parliament. We have been working closely with the autism aligned and

:57:02.:57:07.

have invested some ?325,000 since 2014 but we don't do more in terms

:57:08.:57:11.

of helping -- helping families with autistic children and raising the

:57:12.:57:16.

profile of the understanding of what being autistic is all about. Let me

:57:17.:57:21.

put in a plug for the strange incident of the dog in a night which

:57:22.:57:25.

is still available at the Whitehall Theatre, it is excellent and will

:57:26.:57:29.

give you a better explanation of autism and perhaps anything we can

:57:30.:57:36.

discuss in this house. Authorities in the room, El Salvador and Panama

:57:37.:57:41.

have raided offices of Mossack Fonseca, seizing documents and

:57:42.:57:45.

computer equipment but nobody has knocked on the door of their branch

:57:46.:57:50.

in the UK. While recognising the operational independence of our

:57:51.:57:53.

enforcement agencies, does he share my deep concern that come as we

:57:54.:58:00.

speak, documents are no doubt being shredded and databases being wiped,

:58:01.:58:04.

undermining the opportunity to bring further potential wrongdoing to

:58:05.:58:09.

like? She makes an important point which is that we need to make sure

:58:10.:58:13.

that all the evidence coming out Panama is properly investigated and

:58:14.:58:17.

that is right we have set up a special cross agency team including

:58:18.:58:21.

the National Crime Agency, HMRC and other relevant bodies to make sure

:58:22.:58:24.

we get to the bottom of what happened. She is right to reference

:58:25.:58:29.

the fact that these organisations are operationally independent and it

:58:30.:58:32.

would be quite wrong for a minister or Prime Minister to order an

:58:33.:58:35.

investigator into a particular building in a particular way, that

:58:36.:58:45.

is not a river, we want to cross in this house. Empower the National

:58:46.:58:48.

crime agency and HMRC, give them resources and let them get on with

:58:49.:58:51.

the job. Can I draw his attention to the tragic death of a 20 month --

:58:52.:58:59.

21-month-old baby when she was stamped on by her mother so

:59:00.:59:03.

violently that it prompted her heart. Yet she had been known to

:59:04.:59:10.

social services since the day she was born, they knew about the

:59:11.:59:14.

violent boyfriends, the domestic violence, they saw the doors kicked

:59:15.:59:19.

in and smelt the cannabis, they saw the bruisers, the cuts, the

:59:20.:59:22.

fingerprints on her little thighs and they did nothing -- bruises. He

:59:23.:59:28.

will understand that people want to know how this could have happened

:59:29.:59:32.

yet they are concerned to know that the serious case review has on its

:59:33.:59:35.

panel people who are directly involved in the

:59:36.:59:40.

organisationorganisations are being investigated. Will he look at what

:59:41.:59:44.

we can do to make this and other serious case reviews more

:59:45.:59:47.

independent so we can make sure that no other child suffers the life and

:59:48.:59:54.

death that this little girl did? I think my honourable friend is

:59:55.:59:57.

absolutely right to raise this. Obviously in the work we all do we

:59:58.:00:02.

hear about some hideous and horrific incidents but anybody watching

:00:03.:00:07.

television that night and seeing the description of what happened to that

:00:08.:00:09.

girl could it simply took your breath away that people could behave

:00:10.:00:13.

in such a despicable way towards their own children. There is no

:00:14.:00:17.

punishment in the world in my view that fits that sort of crime carried

:00:18.:00:23.

out by their own parent. There will be a serious case review and I will

:00:24.:00:28.

look carefully at the suggestions he makes and I know the Secretary of

:00:29.:00:31.

State for Education will do so as well. There are criticisms of the

:00:32.:00:35.

way these cases are done but in this case we must get on with the review

:00:36.:00:39.

because we have to get to the bottom of what went wrong. There are

:00:40.:00:46.

currently over 7000 people in the UK needing an organ transplant

:00:47.:00:49.

including 139 children and many will die because of a shortage of

:00:50.:00:54.

available organs. The Welsh Labour government has already introduced

:00:55.:00:57.

ground-breaking legislation for opt out organisation in Wales so will

:00:58.:01:03.

you join me in supporting the campaign for opt out organ donation

:01:04.:01:08.

throughout the UK? I'm always happy to look at this again having looked

:01:09.:01:11.

at it before and have not come out in favour of opting out. We debated

:01:12.:01:17.

in the last Parliament and made a lot of moves to making opt in much

:01:18.:01:21.

easier and we found that if you look at different hospitals and areas of

:01:22.:01:23.

the country there are different record in terms of how well they do.

:01:24.:01:28.

My position is that it is something we should support and continue to

:01:29.:01:32.

drive but this house can vote on the issue about whether it wants to go

:01:33.:01:40.

down the Welsh track rather than the track we are on but personally I say

:01:41.:01:43.

we should make opt in better. He will be well aware that our

:01:44.:01:47.

colleague Lord Bates has just started a 2000 mile walk from one is

:01:48.:01:55.

Iris to Rio de Janeiro, arriving in time for the Olympics -- Buenos

:01:56.:02:03.

Aires. Will he join me in wishing him well on this epic journey and

:02:04.:02:07.

committing his government to uphold the values and principles of the

:02:08.:02:12.

Olympic truce? I have already written to Michael Bates to wish him

:02:13.:02:15.

well and give support for the work he has done over many years. He

:02:16.:02:20.

leaves me a bit of a hole in the House of Lords where he has been

:02:21.:02:24.

doing fantastic work for the Home Office on security issues so we wish

:02:25.:02:30.

him a good walk and a speedy return. At Ealing hospital the experienced

:02:31.:02:37.

doctors I met with last week are dismayed that the government's own

:02:38.:02:42.

equality assessment of their new contract find it discriminates

:02:43.:02:45.

against women which is over half of them. As he is a self-confessed

:02:46.:02:49.

feminist, leading a progressive government, will he... So he says.

:02:50.:02:58.

Will the reverse this blatant injustice which has no place in

:02:59.:03:05.

2016? I am grateful for her question and backhanded compliment! I would

:03:06.:03:09.

say that this contract is actually very pro-women because it involves a

:03:10.:03:17.

13% basic pay rise, because it restricts the currently horrendous

:03:18.:03:20.

hours that some junior doctors are working that are unsafe, and because

:03:21.:03:25.

it gives greater guarantees about levels of pay and the amount of

:03:26.:03:29.

money that doctors will get. As people start to work on it and with

:03:30.:03:32.

it, they will see it is very pro-women. Over 200,000 economic

:03:33.:03:44.

migrants came from the European Union in the period for which we

:03:45.:03:48.

have figures and yet the propaganda sheet said at the British people

:03:49.:03:51.

says we maintain control of our borders. As we withdrawn from the

:03:52.:03:56.

free movement of people all sit -- is it simply untrue? The truth is

:03:57.:04:03.

that economic migrants coming and to the EU don't have the right to come

:04:04.:04:06.

to the UK, they are not European nationals. They are nationals of

:04:07.:04:14.

Pakistan or Morocco or Turkey. None of them have the right so it is very

:04:15.:04:19.

important and it is important we send information stew households

:04:20.:04:23.

because then they can see the truth about what is proposed. What he has

:04:24.:04:27.

put forward is classic of the sort of scare stories we get, Britain has

:04:28.:04:32.

borders, Britain will keep its borders, we have the best of both

:04:33.:04:41.

worlds. Still at university at the University of sporting excellence

:04:42.:04:46.

elite sports have been rocked in recent months about an international

:04:47.:04:49.

doping scandal that threatens the entire country is thrown out or

:04:50.:04:55.

major and petitions. Does he agree that the world anti-doping agency

:04:56.:04:58.

needs further support and can he tell me what further action can be

:04:59.:05:04.

taken? I think he is right to raise it, Wada has made a lot of advances

:05:05.:05:08.

in recent years. There is a relevance to our anti-corruption

:05:09.:05:13.

Summit in May when we will be looking at corruption in sport and

:05:14.:05:16.

bringing forward new codes of practice to adopt in this country

:05:17.:05:20.

and we hope others also do. There is also the question about whether

:05:21.:05:23.

doping should be a specific criminal offence which is something we should

:05:24.:05:28.

be debating. What progress has been made in impairment in Sir Bruce

:05:29.:05:33.

Keogh's ten clinical standards published in December 2013 which are

:05:34.:05:38.

essential for rolling out the seven-day NHS? Perhaps I can write

:05:39.:05:45.

specifically on the clinical standards but the truth is that what

:05:46.:05:50.

is good is that he and others in the NHS support this vision of a

:05:51.:05:54.

seven-day NHS and recognise that we should pay tribute to all those

:05:55.:05:58.

doctors and nurses who work at weekends already because it is very

:05:59.:06:01.

important but what we are trying to move toward is an NHS where the

:06:02.:06:06.

individual has access to their family doctor seven days a week and

:06:07.:06:10.

also where hospitals work on or seven databases because it will save

:06:11.:06:14.

lives and improve care and I will write to him about the specific

:06:15.:06:20.

detail. Parent governors play a key role in local schools supporting

:06:21.:06:24.

their children's education and performing an important civic duty.

:06:25.:06:29.

If the Prime Minister aware of the sadness and anger which has resulted

:06:30.:06:32.

from the forced Academy 's announcement that the duty for each

:06:33.:06:36.

school to have parent governors will be removed? Will he urgently review

:06:37.:06:42.

this attack on parents? I'm delighted the Honourable lady asked

:06:43.:06:44.

this question because we will be debating it later but let me be

:06:45.:06:49.

clear, we support parent governors, we think they have a great role to

:06:50.:06:53.

play but no school should think that is simply -- that by simply having

:06:54.:06:58.

parent governors you have solved the problem about engaging with parents.

:06:59.:07:03.

Let me say that there is something in the Labour motion today that it

:07:04.:07:07.

actually inaccurate and should be withdrawn. It says, the white Paper

:07:08.:07:13.

proposes the removal of parent governors from school governing

:07:14.:07:17.

bodies. It does no such thing. As well as not getting his tax return

:07:18.:07:22.

in on time coming is bringing forward motions that are simply

:07:23.:07:23.

wrong. So Prime Minister's Questions comes

:07:24.:07:35.

to an end. It used a version 12 30p. Now we are lucky if it finishes at

:07:36.:07:43.

12:40pm. The subject on the front tax, tax, tax and then a bit more

:07:44.:07:50.

tax from the EU now moving to beef up exchange of information between

:07:51.:07:55.

various territories to other HMRC -- to whether HMRC in this country has

:07:56.:08:01.

enough resource to climb down on tax evasion and aggressive tax

:08:02.:08:05.

avoidance, to the role of the overseas territories and Crown

:08:06.:08:09.

dependencies and whether the register of registered companies in

:08:10.:08:12.

these various territories is now going to allow proper investigation

:08:13.:08:17.

by the British authorities. It was all covered between the two

:08:18.:08:21.

frontbenchers, then we got Angus Robertson and we moved to tax, tax,

:08:22.:08:26.

tax. He raised the issues with those two questions, so it is clearly

:08:27.:08:31.

still the big issue in Westminster. Before we get some reaction, let's

:08:32.:08:33.

hear what you thought of today's PMQs.

:08:34.:08:39.

Well, it still tax, in that consistent line of questioning and

:08:40.:08:43.

e-mail so stop Mike Wilkinson said, Jeremy Corbyn started off on a good

:08:44.:08:46.

know but once got embroiled in technical detail he lost his

:08:47.:08:49.

audience. That in David Cameron's worst period as PM Jeremy Corbyn

:08:50.:08:57.

still can't land a decisive blow him is worrying. Another viewer said the

:08:58.:09:03.

questions were too long and delivered a clumsy way. David

:09:04.:09:06.

Cameron is much better at thinking on his feet and has an easy ride.

:09:07.:09:10.

Spencer says, Cameron budget request and again. Jeremy Corbyn the winner

:09:11.:09:17.

by a mile. Under a different subject, this from Gareth Hughes

:09:18.:09:19.

says, David Cameron says he would remain in office to represent the

:09:20.:09:23.

will of the British people in the event of a Leave vote on the 23rd of

:09:24.:09:29.

June in response to Doug -- Douglas Carswell was Bob question. Total

:09:30.:09:35.

fantasy. He will be gone within a week.

:09:36.:09:40.

We may be struggling to keep our jobs if that turns out to be right.

:09:41.:09:43.

I'm going to come onto that because it an important issue. But first,

:09:44.:09:48.

did we learn anything on the tax exchanges or was it just more of the

:09:49.:09:52.

same? What we learned is just how big an issue this has been and how

:09:53.:09:55.

much it has pervaded everything in politics over the last ten days. We

:09:56.:09:59.

had Jeremy Corbyn and Caroline Lucas and Angus Robertson, so from across

:10:00.:10:04.

the parties, people thinking this is a bruise that is absolutely worth

:10:05.:10:07.

pressing on the Prime Minister in terms of his own experience in the

:10:08.:10:11.

last ten days. I don't think we've learned very much that was new but

:10:12.:10:14.

it tells us the depth of feeling and that politicians in opposition

:10:15.:10:17.

parties believe it's absolutely worth carrying on trying to hang

:10:18.:10:22.

this around the Prime Minister. In a less adversarial political system,

:10:23.:10:27.

Hilary Benn, commentators could well conclude that there is broad

:10:28.:10:31.

consensus on what should be done on tax avoidance and tax evasion. I

:10:32.:10:36.

think there's an element of truth in that. What was striking was that the

:10:37.:10:43.

Prime Minister did not answer Jeremy's first question about why

:10:44.:10:48.

Conservative MEPs have been voting against this, and I trust that they

:10:49.:10:51.

will now be instructed to change their... Can the British party

:10:52.:10:57.

leader instruct the MEPs? He might want to ring them up and say, since

:10:58.:11:03.

I've just told the House of Commons this is an I support it might be

:11:04.:11:06.

helped lift you would stop trying to obstruct it. That's the first point.

:11:07.:11:10.

Secondly, I absolutely welcome what has been agreed with the overseas

:11:11.:11:13.

territories and Crown dependencies, apart from the two Prime Minister

:11:14.:11:18.

mentioned on Monday, but there is let it a question I raised myself -

:11:19.:11:22.

if the British register, which I think is going to come live in June,

:11:23.:11:27.

is going to be available to the public, the register beneficial

:11:28.:11:29.

ownership, what exactly is the argument for saying to the overseas

:11:30.:11:32.

territories and Crown dependencies, you don't have to do that now,

:11:33.:11:37.

especially when two years ago the Prime Minister wrote to them arguing

:11:38.:11:40.

it should be open on one of the reasons he gave them was that it

:11:41.:11:43.

would help to tackle crime. If it's going to help to tackle crime, he

:11:44.:11:48.

should press the point. I understand that but didn't you get the

:11:49.:11:51.

impression that he thought that if he forced that particular point on

:11:52.:11:54.

them, it could delay the whole business of transparency and that he

:11:55.:12:00.

thought that he had made major progress by allowing automatic

:12:01.:12:07.

access by the authorities in this country, HMRC, the National Crime

:12:08.:12:11.

Agency, the serious fraud squad, to these registers. You and I may not

:12:12.:12:15.

be able to see them but the guys and women who are going to do all the

:12:16.:12:18.

hard work would get to see them, they would now have access that they

:12:19.:12:21.

didn't have before, including two beneficial ownership. It is and

:12:22.:12:25.

that's why it is a step forward in the same way that the European Union

:12:26.:12:29.

actually makes a point that I was arguing earlier, the EU has just

:12:30.:12:32.

agreed the fourth anti-money-laundering directive,

:12:33.:12:35.

which is also going to make things more transparent, including for

:12:36.:12:39.

those who have a need to know, investigative journalists, and that

:12:40.:12:42.

is a really good example of how working with our allies in Europe

:12:43.:12:46.

helps us to tackle this problem. What's your take on this? The hero

:12:47.:12:50.

was David Cork. He brought in measures to close 40 loopholes and I

:12:51.:12:56.

think that 12 were brought in and he's looking at bringing in another

:12:57.:13:03.

60 million with liberals. Someone told me that Jack Straw said we

:13:04.:13:06.

could have done more in our time and David has done an awful lot of this.

:13:07.:13:11.

What I didn't quite get was wide Jeremy Corbyn was buying on about

:13:12.:13:15.

transparency. The Prime Minister has made it clear that if he pushed the

:13:16.:13:19.

overseas territories to far, and it's all absolutely open, for a

:13:20.:13:22.

reason I don't totally understand, they won't play ball. The key thing

:13:23.:13:27.

surely is HMRC and the National Crime Agency have access to the

:13:28.:13:30.

books on the information. That's what's really important. That would

:13:31.:13:35.

be a game changer. I'm totally sympathetic with the Primus's

:13:36.:13:38.

comment that we will be transparent but if we want all these overseas

:13:39.:13:41.

territories to play ball, don't push them to the transparency. Make sure

:13:42.:13:46.

we have total access our agencies. There are two reasons why Labour is

:13:47.:13:49.

keen to keep pressing on this. Firstly, Jeremy Corbyn has

:13:50.:13:52.

campaigned on these issues for a long time, tax transparency and what

:13:53.:13:55.

happens around the world, so this is one of his core issues, but they

:13:56.:13:58.

know that what's happened in the last ten days makes this a

:13:59.:14:00.

vulnerability for the Prime Minister. It even lead Jeremy Corbyn

:14:01.:14:04.

to do is an quite unusual, which was to crack rather a good joke at the

:14:05.:14:11.

prime list's expense, joking that he paid more tax than some of the

:14:12.:14:13.

companies that David Cameron might know quite well did. For Jeremy

:14:14.:14:18.

Corbyn, this is a good, not easy, but a straightforward political

:14:19.:14:21.

issue, even though behind-the-scenes there is quite a lot of consensus

:14:22.:14:24.

that has meant that progress has been made here. So the accusation

:14:25.:14:29.

that the Government's done nothing and sat back and nothing has changed

:14:30.:14:33.

in the last couple of years doesn't quite wash, but it's a vulnerable

:14:34.:14:36.

political area for the Prime Minister, as we've seen in the last

:14:37.:14:39.

ten days. It's clearly been a bruising time for the Prime

:14:40.:14:42.

Minister, not just on this issue but a whole host of issues, including

:14:43.:14:46.

steel, the budget and the Panama papers and so on. Isn't there a

:14:47.:14:52.

danger, given the pivotal role the Prime Minister will play in the

:14:53.:14:57.

Remain campaign, that what damages the Prime Minister risks damaging

:14:58.:15:01.

the Remain campaign? Yes, indeed, because the Prime Minister is the

:15:02.:15:04.

figure who is going to be upfront and central in the Remain campaign.

:15:05.:15:08.

That is the way that they are planning to play it, that is how

:15:09.:15:12.

they have been playing it so far. And, of course, anything that dog

:15:13.:15:16.

damages trust in him does damage how much the message that comes out of

:15:17.:15:21.

his mouth, how that will land with members of the public who are

:15:22.:15:25.

undecided. Particularly because he needs to get centrist and

:15:26.:15:27.

centre-left voters and these are not great issues to attract them. And we

:15:28.:15:31.

understand that there is some nervousness among Remainders that

:15:32.:15:36.

the message that has been put forward isn't landing very well with

:15:37.:15:40.

Labour voters because it appears that it is coming out of the

:15:41.:15:44.

Conservative Prime Minister's mouth, therefore that is a problem for

:15:45.:15:49.

them. There is almost a retro feel about all of this, however serious

:15:50.:15:53.

these stories really are stop we've had embarrassment or perceived

:15:54.:15:55.

embarrassment from Conservatives over financial dealings. We had

:15:56.:16:00.

split over Europe, difficulties over an industrial issue like what's

:16:01.:16:05.

happening in steel, and then today this story about John Whittingdale.

:16:06.:16:10.

It's got a touch of the 1980s about it and it is definitely difficult

:16:11.:16:13.

for David Cameron. I would suggest that what we are seeing is the

:16:14.:16:17.

difficulty that Number Ten is having in keeping a grip on the sort of

:16:18.:16:20.

everyday business of government and a grip on this big political

:16:21.:16:27.

campaign. Sticking with this theme, what was the significance, given

:16:28.:16:31.

that Mr Carswell, the one Ukip MP, that he knew what the answer would

:16:32.:16:34.

be gone because it is the pro forma answer from the Prime Minister, why

:16:35.:16:40.

did he ask him, would he stepped down as Prime Minister in the event

:16:41.:16:45.

of a leave vote? I just wonder if he is trying to prepare the ground for

:16:46.:16:48.

something that I understand is going to happen in the next week or so.

:16:49.:16:53.

Senior figures on the Leave side believe very strongly that if there

:16:54.:16:57.

is a vote for us to leave the EU that people who argued on their case

:16:58.:17:02.

should absolutely be involved in the negotiations over the kind of

:17:03.:17:04.

relationship that we have with the rest of the EU and how we depart.

:17:05.:17:08.

They believe that very strongly. They believe that David Cameron, the

:17:09.:17:12.

Foreign Secretary, the Chancellor, should not be the only people in

:17:13.:17:14.

charge of those the glaciations. They would have to bring in someone

:17:15.:17:18.

like Michael Gove? -- those negotiations. They absolutely

:17:19.:17:24.

believe they would have the right to be around that table if they have

:17:25.:17:27.

won the argument and I expect in the next week or so, we'll hear that

:17:28.:17:33.

argument being put publicly. I wonder if that's what Douglas cars

:17:34.:17:35.

will was trying to prepare the ground for. What's your view? You

:17:36.:17:39.

said earlier that you thought you were going to win. I was interested

:17:40.:17:45.

in that because so far, mostly poor people have gone that far. You can

:17:46.:17:49.

leave them, rightly or only, that the wind is behind you on this so if

:17:50.:17:55.

it is and you are right, who should do the negotiations to exit? You get

:17:56.:18:00.

away from Westminster, you get away from the London bubble, you get out

:18:01.:18:05.

into the counties. I was in Northern Ireland last week. The strength of

:18:06.:18:08.

feeling on the ground is remarkable. I'm not arguing about that. My

:18:09.:18:13.

question was quite specific - who should do the renegotiation, or the

:18:14.:18:17.

negotiation, the exit turns if you are right? Well, there will be a

:18:18.:18:22.

mandate. This will give real strength to the team who are

:18:23.:18:26.

negotiating. But who should do it? It's got to be people who are

:18:27.:18:29.

committed to us leaving the EU, getting the power to make our own

:18:30.:18:33.

laws, getting the 350 million back which goes every week. So not the

:18:34.:18:38.

Prime Minister? Prime Minister has been quite clear all along that he

:18:39.:18:41.

will stay as the Prime Minister but there has got to be a team who are

:18:42.:18:45.

absolutely committed to leaving the EU established in the UK as an

:18:46.:18:49.

independent country and taking all the advantages of being the fifth

:18:50.:18:53.

biggest economy in the world. So by definition that couldn't include the

:18:54.:18:55.

Prime Minister or the Chancellor because they are not committed to

:18:56.:18:59.

leave. I think there is continuity as well. That's important. The 24th

:19:00.:19:03.

of June is my birthday. There will be a great celebration and I hope we

:19:04.:19:07.

will hear that we will be leaving but nothing will change on that day.

:19:08.:19:12.

I understand that. You think the team would have to include Leave

:19:13.:19:17.

people? We are very short on time. I will just ask you, Hilary Benn, are

:19:18.:19:22.

you worried that given that Conservative voters looked like they

:19:23.:19:27.

could split 55/45 to come out, so those who are in Remain will need

:19:28.:19:31.

Labour voters to come out, is enough being done to get these Labour

:19:32.:19:35.

voters out? All the polls show that Labour voters support remaining in

:19:36.:19:40.

the European Union and that Jeremy is making a big speech about the

:19:41.:19:45.

case for remaining tomorrow. On your original question, which is the

:19:46.:19:48.

position of the Prime Minister, I'd like to see him out of office very,

:19:49.:19:52.

very quickly but the time to do that as a general election. The decision

:19:53.:19:56.

about our place in Europe is for the next 15 years. Not my actual

:19:57.:20:00.

question! You are getting as bad as him. The question was, are you happy

:20:01.:20:05.

that enough is being done to get that Labour vote out? We are doing a

:20:06.:20:12.

laugh -- a lot and we will do more because I think once the local and

:20:13.:20:16.

mayoral elections are out of the way, people will really turn their

:20:17.:20:19.

attention to the biggest decision we've faced for over 40 years. I

:20:20.:20:23.

know when to quit when I'm behind! Laura, you can quit as well. From

:20:24.:20:26.

our programme, that's all. Now, later today Tim Farron

:20:27.:20:29.

will publish plans on how the UK could offer sanctuary to 3,000

:20:30.:20:32.

unaccompanied child refugees. The Lib Dem leader has just returned

:20:33.:20:34.

from the refugee camp at Idomeni Among his recommendations,

:20:35.:20:37.

the expansion of family reunification rules and major

:20:38.:20:40.

changes to the foster Tim Farron, welcome. In recent

:20:41.:20:55.

months, the Government's doubled the funding commitment to the region and

:20:56.:20:59.

said the UK will accept more unaccompanied child refugees. Should

:21:00.:21:03.

they be doing more? Yes, they should. I'm very much in favour of

:21:04.:21:06.

the support that the UK Government gives to the region itself around

:21:07.:21:14.

Syria, Lebanon and so on. What the UK Government is not doing is

:21:15.:21:17.

helping a single one of those refugees trapped in Europe and the

:21:18.:21:21.

ones I met yesterday, almost all of them were families. I met very many

:21:22.:21:25.

small children and they are trapped now because the failure to make the

:21:26.:21:33.

EU and Turkey deal work properly, which David Cameron bears some

:21:34.:21:36.

response ability for, means you've now got thousands and thousands of

:21:37.:21:39.

families trapped in squalid and desperate circumstances and in need

:21:40.:21:44.

of help and what we've been saying for more than six months now is that

:21:45.:21:49.

police the UK Government could do for those refugees are stranded in

:21:50.:21:56.

Europe is to help some of, 3000, of the unaccompanied child refugees

:21:57.:21:58.

that are currently in Europe. There are about 30,000 at the moment and

:21:59.:22:02.

we know at least 10,000 have gone missing in the hands of traffickers,

:22:03.:22:08.

those people who, as children, will very now often be sublet to

:22:09.:22:11.

exploitation of the most horrific kind.

:22:12.:22:15.

We have shown some pictures of you at that refugee camp and there has

:22:16.:22:22.

also been news from that area where Macedonian police have tried to

:22:23.:22:25.

disperse a crowd of refugees who were tearing at barbed wire,

:22:26.:22:31.

separating the Idomeni camp on the Greek side of the border from the

:22:32.:22:35.

camp and we can show some pictures about now. How tense was the

:22:36.:22:38.

situation with refugees when you were there? Very tense. I went right

:22:39.:22:46.

up to the fence, which incidentally was erected in 48 hours by the

:22:47.:22:51.

Macedonian authorities, a huge fence, and it shows what authorities

:22:52.:22:55.

can do when they put their minds to it in a short period, reminding us

:22:56.:23:00.

that if we really want to help 3000 orphaned children we could do it

:23:01.:23:06.

quickly. My experience there was of real tension, there were armoured

:23:07.:23:11.

vehicles, walking to the fence weapons were pointed through the

:23:12.:23:16.

side of them at us. There was a real sense that there is great attention.

:23:17.:23:22.

What has happened, Idomeni was a place where people who were making

:23:23.:23:26.

their way north to join family and friends in Germany and Sweden for

:23:27.:23:30.

example, would stop for a night on their way and there were a few

:23:31.:23:34.

hundred people at any given time but now there are 15,000. It is squalid

:23:35.:23:41.

and tense and the overwhelming majority are families and there are

:23:42.:23:43.

hundreds and thousands of young children. This is an issue about

:23:44.:23:49.

unaccompanied child refugees who are a huge risk to traffic smugglers and

:23:50.:23:54.

criminals. Should the government be doing more to help them

:23:55.:23:59.

specifically? We are talking about 30,000 unaccompanied child refugees.

:24:00.:24:04.

I think what Tim has explained is very interesting but we have to be

:24:05.:24:09.

incredibly careful not just taking pure, lonely children from eight

:24:10.:24:13.

site in Europe where they are safer than they would be in Syria because

:24:14.:24:17.

that could act as temptation for children to be sent. Are they safe

:24:18.:24:22.

in Europe if they are alone when we have talked about people smugglers,

:24:23.:24:26.

they could just disappear, should we not be focusing our attention? It is

:24:27.:24:30.

incredibly fraught but the current policy is to take children with

:24:31.:24:34.

their families from the border with Syria where they are in real danger.

:24:35.:24:39.

Tim has seen the camp on the Greek Macedonian border and they are

:24:40.:24:44.

probably at less risk there than on the Syrian border. Do you accept

:24:45.:24:49.

that? We are talking about difficult choices. We should be doing our bit.

:24:50.:24:54.

We have been arguing for a long time as Tim has that we should be taking

:24:55.:25:00.

unaccompanied children. The 30,000 he is talking about. I think the

:25:01.:25:05.

figure was 3000. If it was our children who found themselves in

:25:06.:25:09.

that situation, separated from their parents, would we want other

:25:10.:25:12.

countries to say, we will bring you in? We have always had a

:25:13.:25:17.

disagreement with the government on this because it is right that we are

:25:18.:25:20.

putting a lot into humanitarian aid to support people in the region but

:25:21.:25:25.

from talking to refugees myself, those who have made that dangerous

:25:26.:25:29.

journey to come to Europe, we should not penalised them by saying we will

:25:30.:25:33.

not offer shelter to those who are vulnerable to have made it as well

:25:34.:25:37.

as those in the camps in the region. Tim Farron, thank you very much.

:25:38.:25:40.

Now, if you've been concentrating over the past few days you may have

:25:41.:25:43.

noticed the latest fad to sweep Westminster -

:25:44.:25:45.

All those fascinating details about politicians' income, taxable

:25:46.:25:48.

But have our guests been paying attention to the deluge

:25:49.:25:54.

It's time to play, whose tax return is it anyway.

:25:55.:26:03.

In 2014 this MP's salary was half what the Prime Minister makes -

:26:04.:26:06.

though that may not be the case anymore.

:26:07.:26:08.

They also earned ?1,350 from delivering lectures

:26:09.:26:10.

and ?500 from taking part in surveys.

:26:11.:26:12.

Who is it? Jeremy Corbyn. You have been concentrating!

:26:13.:26:25.

Leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn.

:26:26.:26:27.

This politician earned just under ?105,000 before tax,

:26:28.:26:30.

They claimed just under ?12,000 in non-taxable expenses,

:26:31.:26:33.

Nicola Sturgeon. You can be a bit more enthusiastic, you are right!

:26:34.:26:50.

Let's stay with Scotland but make it a bit more tricky.

:26:51.:26:53.

The leaders of three other Scottish parties also released their tax

:26:54.:26:56.

They all earn the same but one underpaid their tax by ?3.20.

:26:57.:27:00.

No! None! They don't know who the leaders are!

:27:01.:27:19.

It's Scottish Conservatives leader Ruth Davidson,

:27:20.:27:21.

who declared she still owed the tax payer ?3.20 in the self-assessment

:27:22.:27:24.

Back in Westminster, this politician reduced his taxable

:27:25.:27:31.

income from his salary to fund a bigger pension pot.

:27:32.:27:34.

Perhaps they learnt about that from Chairman

:27:35.:27:36.

Yes, it's Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell.

:27:37.:27:54.

And the answer to the year was 2006. If you press that button we will

:27:55.:28:04.

find out who has won... Well done. Very skilful. This is our winner,

:28:05.:28:15.

congratulations. I have never been there. We will have an awayday!

:28:16.:28:19.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:28:20.:28:26.

Jo will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big

:28:27.:28:29.

I will be back tomorrow night on BBC just after Question Time I hope you

:28:30.:28:43.

can join us for all of that. Let BBC Two whisk you away

:28:44.:28:45.

to a world of luxury, boasting an impressive

:28:46.:29:01.

celebrity clientele... I've seen somebody spend

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over half a million. ..and a free gift

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you'll want to treasure forever.

:29:10.:29:13.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn and former environment secretary Owen Paterson to discuss the day's top political stories, including the EU referendum and questions over a relationship that culture secretary John Whittingdale had with a woman who turned out to be an escort.

The programme also includes live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions and analysis with the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg. Plus the Guess the Year Competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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