21/04/2016 Daily Politics


21/04/2016

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LineFromTo

Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

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The Conservatives have admitted failing to declare tens of thousands

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of pounds in election spending in key marginal seats.

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The party blames an "administrative error" for a failure to declare

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all the expenses relating to its General Election 'Battlebus'.

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The Government vows to press ahead with plans to force all schools

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in England to become academies, despite fierce opposition

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from Labour and a growing number of Tory MPs.

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But do robots present an opportunity or a threat to our livelihoods?

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Labour's deputy leader is a cautious fan - he joins us live.

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And, as the Queen turns 90, we talk to the former MP who used

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to give her a daily account of all the gossip among her loyal

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Do you think we will be replaced by robots. I don't know what you're

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talking about. The microchip has landed.

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All that in the next hour and, if you're watching, Your Majesty,

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a very happy birthday from all of us here at the Daily Politics.

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Joining us on this auspicious occasion is Natalie Bennett,

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Natalie, of course, is a staunch Republican and she once said

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that the Royals should be evicted from Buckingham Palace and moved

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But we won't be reminding her of that at all today.

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First today the Conservatives have admitted failing to declare ?38,000

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The party has blamed an "administrative error"

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for failing to register the accommodation costs

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of activists involved in its 'Battlebus 2015' operation.

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The admission follows an investigation by Channel 4 News

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and their political correspondent Michael Crick joins me now.

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Welcome to the programme. You have been on the story for some time, I

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get the impression that every time you go back to it it gets bigger?

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Yes we keep finding more stuff and the Electoral Commission is having

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to widen its investigation. The key thing is, is when they conclude that

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investigation, because there is 12 months after that the candidates

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report their expenses, just a month after the election, so in other

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words something has to be done by the beginning of June when the 12

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months is up for there to be prosecutions relating to the

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declaration of expenses. There are two lots of declaration, locally and

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nationally. Locally each candidate can spend about ?15,000. There are

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national expenses which is just under ?19 million for the

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Conservatives. What we found is that there is all sorts of campaigning

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been going on involving these battle buses, where clearly we are taking

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activists to constituencies, putting them up in hotels and they were

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supporting the local individual candidates. Now the Electoral

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Commission guidelines say if you campaign in support of individual

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candidates, that counts as a local expense. The The cost has appeared

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on the national returns, but the cost of the hotels has not appeared

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anyone and that is what the Conservatives have admitted, because

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of this error should have been on the national returns and they're now

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going to rectify it. Where will they put it? They will put it on the

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national returns. I would argue it should be on the local returns,

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because they were staying in local hotels to support local candidates

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in the South West, tonight we will report on how the battle bus went to

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the Midlands and the north. Most of the candidates there became MPs and

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in most cases if the costs are apded to their local returns, then they're

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over the limit and they're in trouble in theory. The accommodation

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was booked, let me be kind, in an elliptical way? It was booked

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centrally, but sometimes it was booked through individuals, rather

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than through the party. This is a pattern we uncovered a few weeks ago

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in the three by-elections, you remember the big by-elections in

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2015 when the Tories were determined to thwart Ukip and in the South

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Thanet constituency where the Tories were determined to beat Nigel

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Farage. It is all sorts of expenses that the Conservatives claim should

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be national expenses, or they haven't been on any expense returns,

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which should be attributed to their local candidate. It is hard not to.

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If you turn up to a help a local candidate, it is not like helping a

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political broadcast, but if I'm helping a local candidate that cost

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must be for the local candidate. Yes, it is better than that in terms

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of proof, the people that were on the battle bus were proud of what

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they were doing and they were tweeting about it, putting it on

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Facebook and pictures of them and their candidates and we have

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obtained the scripts that they went around with, hello, I'm Mikel --

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Michael crick calling on behalf of your local candidate. And it will

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not surprise you we contacted the Conservative Party this morning.

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This what is they told us: Are they saying the battle bus we

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can charge to the national campaign. That is arguable. But we admit that

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the overnight accommodation or whatever it was, should have been a

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local? Yes, they say that was an administrative error. They argue

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that should be a national expense. We would say, hang on, you stayed in

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that hotel to fight in that seat and that hotel. So they're still trying

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to put it on the national ledger? Yes on the national ledger they were

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bnd 3.5 million under the limit. So if it is a local expense and if it

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was attributed to these seats locally, in most cases they would be

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over the limit, the candidate would have spent too much. The limits are

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important, in order to create a level playing field. Don't go away.

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Well we're joined now from Bristol from the former

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Liberal Democrat MP Tessa Munt, she lost her seat in Wells

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What is your reaction? It is an extraordinary reaction, the idea it

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is an error is tosh. The constituents in my area were

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completely foxed by the fact that they had millions of leaflets

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through their door. My agent said probably something like a quarter of

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a million pounds worth of paper was delivered through doors and all the

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leaflets referred to the fact that this was a campaign that all about

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23 seats, of which mine was one and 23 seats does not make a national

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campaign. We have photographs of people being briefed, there were

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people who didn't know who my successor, what my successor's name

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was, they couldn't pronounce his name, but they were knocking on

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doors campaigning. So we have local campaigning that is being masked as

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national campaigning. It is utter rubbish. Do you feel cheated? No,

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but I think my constituents should feel cheated. Because actually what

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we have in this country, we have been watching the American

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elections, what we have to make sure we don't get is some sort of

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ludicrous money-buying votes. That is what has happened. And when you

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look at my election returns, all of the spending is accounted for, we

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are clear and transparent about the way we have done everything. You can

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see every leaflet and the invoice from the printer and all of the

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information is there. It seems that this is not the way that the other

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parties have chosen to fight the campaign. Thank you. Michael Crick,

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is the question whether the commission allows to put it on the

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national register or it is on the constituency and they will be over

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the limit. I don't know entirely. They're trying to put it on the

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national ledger, but the commission is investigating what we have

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reported and what we said last night and it is not clear whether the

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admission by the Tories results from that investigation, whether they

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basically have been forced to say that, by the commission, but the

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Electoral Commission, the impression we get is they're being hardline,

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they have a reputation for being a feeble body. On this they realise

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something has gone wrong. The question is whether they will

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recommend to the police before the June deadline that there should be

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prosecutions, or the alternative would be to allow under the law a 12

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month extension for further investigations. Whether they go that

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far or whether they say, look, there was clearly misinterpretation of the

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rules and the rules need tightening up and they may go down that avenue.

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More on Channel 4 tonight? Indeed. We will tune in. And they say

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investigative journalism is dead. They're wrong.

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The question for today is: in a radio interview this week what did

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Hillary Clinton say she always carries around with her?

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c) A copy of Donald Trump's book

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At the end of the show we'll see if Natalie

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David Cameron says he will press ahead with plans to force every

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state school to become an academy despite increasingly vocal

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opposition, much of it from within his own party.

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One Tory MP has labelled the plans "Draconian,

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Academies were introduced by Labour and extended

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Currently, under Education Secretary Nicky Morgan,

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55% of secondary schools and 18% of primaries are academies -

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Last month George Osborne unleashed his big Budget idea -

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forcing all schools in England to become academies

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Nicky Morgan fleshed out the plans, which include ending the obligation

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to have parents as governors, scrapping qualified teacher

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status and giving schools taken over by a new head

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But, much like else in this Budget, opposition to the Chancellor's plans

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came swiftly and from all corners, including his own.

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More than a dozen Conservative MPs have so far raised

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concerns about the plans, including Stewart Jackson,

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who said the plans were "Draconian, heavy handed and top down".

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Critics even included a former Education Minister, Tim Loughton,

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who said he supported academies in principle, but was unhappy

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with a "compulsory and arbitrary" timeline being set.

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The Local Government Association said ministers needed to "consider

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the wishes of parents, communities, teachers

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and councils before imposing any new education structures".

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And a National Union of Teachers poll of its members found just 7%

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of schools leaders supported the forced academisation plans.

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But yesterday David Cameron defended the proposals

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at Prime Minister's Questions, saying it was time

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This is something started by the Labour government,

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given rocket boosters under this government.

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We see massive improvements in our schools because of academies

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and we say let's get on with it, finish the job, and give all of our

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I'm joined now by the Education Minister Nick Gibb.

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Are you going to rethink these plans? No the vision I set out is

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for all schools to become academies and that is the vision we will

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proceed with. It is about ensuring we have good schools in every part

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of the country and in every local authority area, because good schools

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that become academies can spread best practice to underperforming

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schools and underperforming schools get strong sponsors to improve edge

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kalgs. It is improving schools so when a parent drops off their child

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they can be confident the school is of high quality.

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You are not going to listen to the strength of feeling within your own

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party from elevated levels saying that Conservatives should be schools

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choice rather than imposing an arbitrary line, ideally any in

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principle but not the compulsion? We are listening and talking to

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colleagues in the House of Commons and local authorities and the

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teaching profession and we want schools to have flexibility and

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choice in how they might become academies, standing alone or not. We

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are talking about a period of six years and as a government we have to

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know where we are going to be in six years when increasing numbers of

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local authorities have 80% or 90% of academies. This is about giving

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professionals control of their school so they can raise standards

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of reading, maths, academic standards, and improve behaviour,

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and it is working. 350 pupils in schools that are sponsored academies

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that were underperforming and are not. Does the government have a

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mandate to do this? Six years is a fairly long timeline. Obviously not.

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There was no mention of this during the election. This is further

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privatisation, taking a public asset and putting it into private hands

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away from the control of communities. We believe all schools

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should be under local democratic control. We want to get rid of these

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schools and academies. There is simply not the evidence to say that

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academies Asian in itself improve standards. Schools around the

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country over recent years have fought off academies Asian and local

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communities have said they might do not want to be academies and it is

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being imposed. Many Tory MPs echoing those sentiments. One says,

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academies have little accountability or parental environment. --

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involvement. There is greater accountability. He is wrong? Yes. We

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take swift action when schools that are academies underperform. There

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are many examples of underperforming schools that stay underperforming

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every year. That cannot happen with the academies programme because we

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intervene swiftly to move academies and transfer them to better

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performing schools. 30 Tory MPs against this compulsion element of

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academies. We also have leading Tory councillors who have expressed anger

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and are calling on you to rethink the policy. Someone saying if it is

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not broke do not fix it. The Tory leader of Hampshire County Council

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urging the government to focus on dealing with schools where there are

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problems not win they are performing well. Schools that are performing

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well have a duty not just to sit as islands, we have to take the

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expertise of those strong head teachers and spread it to the

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underperforming schools. Even in Hampshire a quarter of secondary

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schools are not good or outstanding. It is not the fault of the people

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who are outstanding. We want them to collaborate to make sure that every

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school is high performing. You have failed to sell this policy. There is

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a lot of Tory strength of feeling against that. That is my fault. We

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need to do more to make the case. It is about ensuring there are no

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underperforming schools in our system and that is what parents

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want. Not a school that has been in special measures. We are talking

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about schools that are outstanding. Tristram Hunt the Shadow Education

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Secretary says you are in danger of not providing choice to parents. The

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whole point of the academy programme under Labour was to give parents a

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choice of schools and you want to take them all back under local

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authority control. Choice involves schools competing against each other

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seeking pupils that will give them the best results. The problem is

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Jerry picking of pupils and pushing out of pupils who they think will

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not perform. Our academies allowed to cherry pick? The local secondary

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school in my area takes from the same catchment area it did under

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local authority control. We have a whole philosophy education based on

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schools competing against each other line to get the best for themselves

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not for every pupil. What we saw in Brighton and Halls was getting

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schools to coordinate together to get the best possible result for

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every pupil in the area and that is what should be the foundation of

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education. Is this going to be in the Queen's Speech? We are hearing

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this is not going to be a piece of legislation. We never say what is in

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the Queen's Speech until the Queen's Speech. We are pressing ahead. That

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implies you are. We do not announce in advance what is in the Queen's

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Speech. An underperforming school, fewer than half getting five GCSEs,

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an academy took it over and nearly three quarters of children are

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getting five GCSEs or more. Could you look at an exception for rural

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schools who are doing brilliantly who do not want to be landed with

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the burden of helping other schools? Rural schools have a better chance

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of survival under a trust model that under the local authority because

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they can share back offices, cut costs. No exception from them being

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forced to academies? No. We want all schools to academies. We set out in

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their manifesto that we wanted academisation to continue. We have

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had to look six years ahead. We have authorities like Bournemouth won 87%

:22:37.:22:42.

of schools today are academy. Where are we going to be in five or six

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years? You must have known that when you were drying up the manifesto. We

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said we were going to continue with the academisation process and that

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is what we are doing. Now it's fast approaching 12:30pm,

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which is usually the time that the Queen likes to take her gin

:22:59.:23:00.

and Dubonnet while watching We know this from Buckingham Palace

:23:01.:23:03.

sources. And perhaps today she might make it

:23:04.:23:13.

a double because, in case you hadn't In the last hour or so the Prime

:23:14.:23:16.

Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have been leading

:23:17.:23:21.

the tributes in the Commons. As the sands of culture shift

:23:22.:23:24.

and the tides of politics ebb and flow, Her Majesty

:23:25.:23:28.

has been steadfast. A rock of strength for our nation,

:23:29.:23:36.

for our Commonwealth, and on many As her grandson Prince

:23:37.:23:39.

William has said, time and again, quietly and

:23:40.:23:42.

modestly, the Queen has shown us all that we can confidently

:23:43.:23:45.

embrace the future without compromising

:23:46.:23:47.

the things that are important. Whatever different views

:23:48.:23:48.

people across this country have about the institution,

:23:49.:23:53.

the vast majority share an opinion that Her Majesty has served

:23:54.:23:56.

this country and has overwhelming support,

:23:57.:23:59.

with a clear sense of public service and public duty, as the Prime

:24:00.:24:03.

Minister just indicated. She has carried out that duty

:24:04.:24:06.

with enormous warmth. We know that the Queen is popular

:24:07.:24:21.

but is the monarchy's popularity guaranteed?

:24:22.:24:24.

Joining me now is Tom Mludzinski from the polling company ComRes.

:24:25.:24:28.

Nothing has danger, has it? Politicians cannot get near the

:24:29.:24:36.

favourability and approval ratings for the Queen. This gets close to

:24:37.:24:44.

some of the Royal Family members, Prince Charles. The popularity of

:24:45.:24:49.

the marquee is fairly steadfast. There have been blips along the way

:24:50.:24:54.

around the time of Diana's death and the management of that but it has

:24:55.:25:00.

been fairly rock solid in terms of whether people want to keep the

:25:01.:25:06.

moderately or move to a republic. 75% have said they might want to

:25:07.:25:11.

keep the monarchy. There is not a difference between the Queen's

:25:12.:25:16.

personal popularity and the monarchy in general? The Queen is probably

:25:17.:25:20.

slightly more popular but so are the young royals, Prince Harry, Prince

:25:21.:25:26.

William and Kate Middleton are extremely popular, almost as popular

:25:27.:25:31.

as the Queen in many respects. It is the intervening period. Prince

:25:32.:25:35.

Charles is below his mother and his children. People are less keen on

:25:36.:25:39.

Prince Charles than Prince William so that will affect people's views

:25:40.:25:45.

towards succession. That is right but most people think it is right

:25:46.:25:48.

that Prince Charles should take over from the Queen and become king. Much

:25:49.:25:55.

depends on housekeeper forms on the roll and what sort of duties he

:25:56.:26:01.

takes on. The public profile he takes on when he is king.

:26:02.:26:06.

We're joined now from central lobby by the Conservative MP Adam Afriyie,

:26:07.:26:09.

So I guess the Queen is one of his constituents.

:26:10.:26:16.

As I mentioned earlier she is a republican.

:26:17.:26:23.

Are you going to be celebrating the Queen's birthday? I certainly will

:26:24.:26:34.

be. Can I correct you? She is not my constituent, I yam her subject and

:26:35.:26:40.

she is a resident and she is a very welcome resident. What is the

:26:41.:26:46.

difference? A resident does not have the right to vote. I yam her subject

:26:47.:26:51.

rather than her MP. Are you happy being her subject? I always find it

:26:52.:26:58.

quite churlish even better of those with the academic view that we

:26:59.:27:04.

should move from having a monarchy because in practice the Queen is a

:27:05.:27:09.

figurehead, head of state, she generates world peace and creates

:27:10.:27:16.

social cohesion so she is doing pretty much what we want to do

:27:17.:27:20.

though it seems churlish and bitter to say she should be removed as the

:27:21.:27:27.

monarch. That was not my question. I wondered whether on the 21st-century

:27:28.:27:31.

we should be regarding ourselves as subjects rather than citizens. It is

:27:32.:27:36.

a technicality in the wording. It means quite a lot. We are a

:27:37.:27:43.

democratic nation and it is the elected people like myself who form

:27:44.:27:48.

governments. The thing I have noticed about the Queen is she is

:27:49.:27:53.

always positive, optimistic, pulling people together and holding them

:27:54.:27:58.

together. Weight often we create laws about social be -- and trying

:27:59.:28:05.

to pull things together and she has played a greater role than many of

:28:06.:28:13.

us politicians. Today I am not celebrating the Queen's birthday, I

:28:14.:28:15.

am focusing on the election campaigns coming up. Why? I would

:28:16.:28:23.

congratulate the Queen as an individual for her many decades of

:28:24.:28:29.

service. She has done a huge amount of work, a huge job. In politics we

:28:30.:28:34.

are focusing on the upcoming elections. You could not have a

:28:35.:28:40.

toast? It would only take a few moments. I would have joined you in

:28:41.:28:50.

a drink of course! It is really important we think about the

:28:51.:28:53.

problems with our Constitution which were brought up in the elections

:28:54.:29:00.

pending story. In our first past the post system we have a problem in

:29:01.:29:05.

that the huge amount of focus is on swing voters in swing seats so... We

:29:06.:29:13.

are talking about the monarchy. We are talking about constitutional

:29:14.:29:18.

reform. What the Green Party's focus would be is on the House of Commons.

:29:19.:29:23.

You do not want to get rid of the monarchy? I am happy to retain the

:29:24.:29:32.

ceremonial monarchy like Sweden. What role does the Queen in this

:29:33.:29:38.

country have that the king of Sweden not have? She has the power to form

:29:39.:29:45.

the government. That is what the King does. There it is ceremonial.

:29:46.:29:57.

We have seen it in Belgium as well. The King brings various parties

:29:58.:30:01.

together. The Queen cannot give us a government we do not want. That is

:30:02.:30:04.

clear. FORCEDWHITE We have a constituency

:30:05.:30:18.

that relies on the her redry system. So does Denmark and Belgium. I want

:30:19.:30:23.

to start with House of Commons of the House of Lords. It is clear from

:30:24.:30:27.

all the polls and public sentiment that as long as the Queen is alive

:30:28.:30:35.

the monarchy is safe. No one, even Natalie Bennett has an appetite to

:30:36.:30:38.

do anything as long as the Queen is arrive. Does it come under more

:30:39.:30:47.

danger when she dies and Prince Charles comes to the throne. It is

:30:48.:30:52.

not a day to talk about death on her birthday. There is a danger of

:30:53.:30:56.

having a monarch that may not be in tune with the people. But what the

:30:57.:31:01.

Queen and Prince William have demonstrated that they recognise it

:31:02.:31:04.

is about being in tune with the nation. But Parliament is supreme

:31:05.:31:08.

here and at the end of the day if there were a situation which needed

:31:09.:31:14.

addressing it would be addressed. I get upset with the comments that

:31:15.:31:19.

smack of being sour when there is no practical matter that needs to be

:31:20.:31:22.

dealt with. The Queen is doing wonderful work for the country and

:31:23.:31:26.

the Government and the people and the common wealth and holding the

:31:27.:31:37.

nation together. Don't get sad. What do you say to a historian who said

:31:38.:31:47.

the Queen has done nothing that people will remember, unlike queen

:31:48.:31:51.

Victoria and she sees the role as just a job and she won't give her

:31:52.:31:59.

name to an era. I say thank you Mr Starkey, that is the point, that is

:32:00.:32:04.

why we have had a harmonious nation and government for at least 90

:32:05.:32:10.

years. If you had a referendum now, because it is the only way you could

:32:11.:32:15.

get rid of her, you would have to have a referendum, you would lose at

:32:16.:32:23.

the moment wouldn't you? We are not calling for that. We are calling for

:32:24.:32:30.

a referendum on proportional representation. We had one to change

:32:31.:32:36.

the voting system. You know that alternative vote is not proportional

:32:37.:32:40.

representation. We had that vote and you lost. That is a non-row

:32:41.:32:46.

portional system. Since this is the queen's birthday, we are not going

:32:47.:32:50.

to discuss proportional representation. Have you passed a

:32:51.:32:55.

law. Has she agreed to it. We will be together later in the evening, we

:32:56.:33:00.

will have to see about that one. Natalie Bennett twice in one day!

:33:01.:33:02.

Thank you for joining us. With Scottish, Welsh,

:33:03.:33:06.

local and mayoral elections coming up in just two weeks,

:33:07.:33:08.

the Green Party are hoping to turn what they term the green surge

:33:09.:33:11.

into votes at the ballot box. But despite achieving a record

:33:12.:33:15.

3.8% of the vote in last year's general election,

:33:16.:33:18.

the Greens failed to win any extra parliamentary seats,

:33:19.:33:20.

so will it be different this time? Our guest of the day

:33:21.:33:25.

Natalie Bennett thinks so. Here she is speaking at the party's

:33:26.:33:27.

local election campaign These are really exciting elections

:33:28.:33:29.

for the Green Party. We have more than 1,500 candidates

:33:30.:33:33.

up and down the country. Many of them will be out today

:33:34.:33:38.

knocking on doors, out delivering People are doing the hard

:33:39.:33:41.

work to turn that If you look back a bit

:33:42.:33:45.

to 2015, we outpolled You contrast that to 2010

:33:46.:33:53.

and we outpolled them in one. Natalie Bennett is here. Your

:33:54.:34:12.

counter parts in Scotland are set for a bumper election, some suggest

:34:13.:34:17.

they could win eight seats. Why is the party flat lining in England and

:34:18.:34:21.

Wales? I don't think that is true. What we have in England and Wales

:34:22.:34:26.

where we have proportional representation, the London Assembly

:34:27.:34:30.

and the Wales Assembly, our leader in Wales did a brilliant job in the

:34:31.:34:38.

first leader debate. But the Welsh party has dropped to 3% of the

:34:39.:34:44.

regional vote and that is down from 3.4% at the last Assembly election.

:34:45.:34:48.

Party membership in England and Wales has dropped from 66,000 to

:34:49.:34:54.

63,000 last year. You're going the wrong way? What we are seeing is

:34:55.:35:01.

63,000, contrast that with 12,000 when I became leader. But it is

:35:02.:35:06.

going down. I find there is two groups in the council elections,

:35:07.:35:11.

there is places like Sheffield, Liverpool, Oxford and of course

:35:12.:35:14.

Bristol, where in Bristol west we got close to winning our second

:35:15.:35:19.

Parliamentary seat. Places where we have been strong we are looking to

:35:20.:35:24.

become stronger. That is the thing, you're going to try and extend your

:35:25.:35:30.

presence and your vote in those areas, but you won't improve your

:35:31.:35:34.

standing in places where you're not. Where we are growing is the other

:35:35.:35:39.

group of councils where we are making an impact where we have a

:35:40.:35:44.

chance to win our first seats and I have been travelling around the

:35:45.:35:49.

country where even a couple of years ago there may not have been a Green

:35:50.:35:53.

Party. Now we have a chance to win our first councillor. People like

:35:54.:35:58.

the message that says we are tired, we are not happy with the council

:35:59.:36:04.

performance and we want a new Green broom asking questions and

:36:05.:36:08.

challenging. That is a message striking home in many communities.

:36:09.:36:13.

What about in London, the mayoral candidate polled as low as 2% in an

:36:14.:36:19.

opinion poll. That is down from 4.5% in 2012. What we seeing as the

:36:20.:36:26.

mayoral election heightens up and people are hearing what our

:36:27.:36:30.

candidate is saying, her slogan is the power of good ideas. She has

:36:31.:36:36.

good ideas that will translate into votes in the mayoral and the London

:36:37.:36:42.

Assembly, where we have already had two representatives and we have a

:36:43.:36:45.

chance to grow that representation here. What impact will the results

:36:46.:36:50.

have on your future leadership, will you stand for re-election as leader?

:36:51.:36:55.

Well as I have said, at the moment there is only one election I'm

:36:56.:37:00.

focussed on, which is the elections in May and the referendum. These are

:37:01.:37:03.

the elections the democratic elections for the whole people of

:37:04.:37:08.

England and Wales. Because you haven't made a decision? No the

:37:09.:37:14.

Green Party, it comes up every two years. At the moment I'm not

:37:15.:37:18.

thinking about that. People say if you're planning to stand again, you

:37:19.:37:23.

wob able to say so now, are you waiting for the results of election

:37:24.:37:28.

first? No I think it would be a distraction if I were to say

:37:29.:37:32.

anything. If you said you were standing again, why would that be a

:37:33.:37:38.

distraction? We want to focus on electing our first green councillor

:37:39.:37:43.

in Exeter and Newcastle. I'm not talking and anything else. You're

:37:44.:37:47.

taughting about -- talking about it. But it is coming up and people may

:37:48.:37:51.

want to know why you couldn't say yes. We have elections. Let's focus

:37:52.:38:00.

on the local elections where people debate local elections. We have been

:38:01.:38:06.

heading to an a presidential style of election and that is not right we

:38:07.:38:13.

should focus on the local elections. The Scottish green leader said

:38:14.:38:17.

greens believe in bringing power closer to the power, wouldn't a vote

:38:18.:38:22.

to the leave the EU bring power closer. Well we are campaigning to

:38:23.:38:32.

stay in. Jenny Jones isn't. Last year about 95% backed a remain

:38:33.:38:36.

campaign. The Green Party has people with different views. But we have no

:38:37.:38:39.

problems with that, because the Green Party doesn't whip. So we are

:38:40.:38:43.

comfortable with people having different views and as Jenny did,

:38:44.:38:48.

state her position and stating the Green position that we believe we

:38:49.:38:51.

need to work together on the joint problems that we face. We need to

:38:52.:38:55.

make decisions at the right kind of level. If we are thinking and

:38:56.:39:01.

pollution and workers' rights, we need to work at a European level.

:39:02.:39:03.

Thank you. Now, they're pre-programmed,

:39:04.:39:06.

are told what to say, and aren't No, I'm not talking

:39:07.:39:08.

about politicians. And they're getting

:39:09.:39:11.

smarter all the time, With technology advancing at speed,

:39:12.:39:14.

what will the rise of the robots mean for us mere humans

:39:15.:39:22.

and the jobs we do? Here's Tom Watson, the deputy leader

:39:23.:39:24.

of the Labour Party, Robots used to be the stuff

:39:25.:39:26.

of science fiction, but they're In his budget last month,

:39:27.:39:43.

George Osborne announced that driverless cars will be trialled

:39:44.:39:54.

on our roads as early as next year. A development that will have huge

:39:55.:39:58.

ramifications for the haulage industry, cab drivers and possibly

:39:59.:40:02.

the rail industry too. Management consultants Deloitte say

:40:03.:40:09.

that 11 million jobs will go when robots do the work that

:40:10.:40:12.

humans do today. The age of automation will unleash

:40:13.:40:21.

forces as profound and destructive as the Industrial Revolution did

:40:22.:40:23.

300 years ago. Our question has to be -

:40:24.:40:31.

do we make technology our friend I think we have to embrace it

:40:32.:40:34.

and I want the Labour The last machine age led

:40:35.:40:41.

to the Industrial Revolution From the factories and the railways

:40:42.:40:51.

to the town halls and public squares But it also left a terrible

:40:52.:40:59.

legacy of inequality, disease, slums, poverty,

:41:00.:41:05.

child labour and it took a combination of capitalist

:41:06.:41:10.

philanthropy, municipal leadership and the power of organised

:41:11.:41:14.

labour to change that. Despite their rhetoric,

:41:15.:41:25.

the Tories don't have a proper Because their ideology dictates

:41:26.:41:27.

that the market alone must We believe in harnessing the power

:41:28.:41:32.

of the enabling state to everyone gains from the benefits

:41:33.:41:43.

automation brings us. We are entering the second machine

:41:44.:41:57.

age, a new era of automation. It sound like science fiction,

:41:58.:42:03.

but this isn't the stuff of HG Wells, it is happening

:42:04.:42:08.

in Tonbridge Wells right now. We did ask to speak to a robot, but

:42:09.:42:30.

none was available. A bit like Conservative ministers. You

:42:31.:42:35.

mentioned this statistic that robots will claim 11 million jobs, isn't it

:42:36.:42:40.

in the nature of the reports that they're always wrong? Generally. But

:42:41.:42:44.

it points in the right direction. Deloitte said there a is high

:42:45.:42:50.

probability of 11 million jobs and a possibility it could be 19 million.

:42:51.:42:53.

If you look at analysts, there was a report from the Bank of America that

:42:54.:42:58.

say they think half of global manufacturing jobs will be

:42:59.:43:03.

automated, the jobs that are done by humans that would liberate $9

:43:04.:43:12.

trillion of labour costs. So there are big changes, technological

:43:13.:43:15.

advance is getting quick and that state of flux is greater and you can

:43:16.:43:21.

only deal with that change if you are prepared to put the empowering

:43:22.:43:27.

state at the heart, working with employers and workers to deal with

:43:28.:43:33.

the disruption. I can see the role of state skilling people for the

:43:34.:43:38.

changes, but governments, and it is also clear that you can see what

:43:39.:43:42.

jobs existing jobs could be in danger. The one thing governments

:43:43.:43:47.

can never do is see what new jobs will come. You can equip people to

:43:48.:43:56.

be ready to move. If youI were sitting here in 1994, we would never

:43:57.:44:01.

have seen all the jobs that the internet was going to create. That's

:44:02.:44:06.

right. But if you just say let's leave to it fate, let's leave it to

:44:07.:44:12.

the goods of the market, as as state you will miss opportunities. My

:44:13.:44:17.

argument is we need to institutions that bring the state together in

:44:18.:44:21.

partnering up workers and employers to make sure we are investing tax

:44:22.:44:28.

dollars in the right way. What else would it do? It doesn't predict the

:44:29.:44:33.

future. As I said, I see the point of making sure the people of the

:44:34.:44:37.

country have the best skills to be able to move which ever way the jobs

:44:38.:44:44.

are. But you risk huge investments in areas that don't turn out. The

:44:45.:44:50.

French Government did this in the pre-internet age and invented its

:44:51.:44:56.

own pre-internet technology. It doesn't exist now. You're to let

:44:57.:45:01.

entrepreneurs develop technology, but how you skill the workforce. If

:45:02.:45:10.

you look at the NHS, people are now wearing wearable medical devices,

:45:11.:45:13.

measuring their own health. We scowled have a revolution in health

:45:14.:45:20.

diagnostics creating a new generalers are of clinicians. We

:45:21.:45:25.

can't even digitise health records yet. We spent 12 billion failing to

:45:26.:45:33.

do that. We are good at fail, because on the left you have a sense

:45:34.:45:36.

of people go to protectionist measures and on the right there is

:45:37.:45:40.

the sense you can't plan ahead, because the state does haven't a

:45:41.:45:46.

role. You need sensible pragmat tichl.

:45:47.:45:54.

There is the Luddite tradition. Has that gone? In the British Retail

:45:55.:46:04.

Consortium a third of retail jobs would go in the next generation

:46:05.:46:10.

because of warehouse technology. They work very closely with

:46:11.:46:14.

employers to make sure that new jobs are created and the workforce are

:46:15.:46:21.

supported. You think particularly the union wing of the Labour Party

:46:22.:46:24.

which often oppose new technology in the 60s and 70s, these days are

:46:25.:46:31.

gone? They have an interest in protecting the interests of their

:46:32.:46:36.

workers. You cannot stop technological advance and you have

:46:37.:46:42.

to make it your friend or enemy but you can provide a safety net for

:46:43.:46:48.

workers in industries in transition. All of those poor journalists

:46:49.:46:52.

affected by the destructive power of technology, you have to find new

:46:53.:46:56.

ways to support information in the hands of citizens. There have been a

:46:57.:47:00.

lot of other journals jobs created in different ways, which often do

:47:01.:47:06.

not pay as much. How would you judge the performance of the Labour Party

:47:07.:47:12.

in the various elections in May? Certainly not doing interviews with

:47:13.:47:23.

you won I talk about 200 wins or whatever. Expectation management. I

:47:24.:47:28.

have no idea what the outcome of the elections in May will be because

:47:29.:47:33.

they are easy ways of separate elections and the local campaigns

:47:34.:47:36.

and local government elections are going to be unique. You are not

:47:37.:47:41.

going to give us a yardstick? I do not have one. How are relations with

:47:42.:47:49.

your leader? You support Trident. You want to curb the influence of

:47:50.:47:56.

some of Jeremy Corbyn's supporters. If that was the price it would be

:47:57.:48:02.

disastrous. We get on very well. I just wondered how you were getting

:48:03.:48:07.

on giving your various positions. Very positive. We have struck up a

:48:08.:48:12.

close personal friendship which allows you to have different views

:48:13.:48:17.

of the world than manage that. If Labour was to lose the London

:48:18.:48:21.

mayoral election I would suggest your performance in Scotland, Wales

:48:22.:48:31.

has been hemmed in, but would there be another leadership crisis? That

:48:32.:48:36.

is another way of getting me into expectations management. I spoke to

:48:37.:48:42.

Labour Party members. They hoops Jeremy and me as leader and deputy

:48:43.:48:48.

leader and it is up to them if they want to express their dissent. A big

:48:49.:48:55.

issue you have been associated with, then it will be 2012 you said there

:48:56.:49:00.

was a clear intelligence suggesting a power powerful paedophile network

:49:01.:49:08.

linked to parliament and Number 10. No one has been arrested much less

:49:09.:49:13.

charged. Operation Midland has been closed down. You were wrong? A

:49:14.:49:18.

number of people have been arrested and some of them convicted. Not to

:49:19.:49:23.

do with a paedophile ring connected to Parliament and Number 10. There

:49:24.:49:29.

is a public inquiry looking at that and various criminal inquiries that

:49:30.:49:33.

are not complete. There have been no arrests of a powerful paedophile

:49:34.:49:39.

ring involving fee is a Number 10. It was the information exchange. We

:49:40.:49:49.

know that. I did not know that. Used and by that statement? There have

:49:50.:49:56.

been no major political public figures charged as a result of this

:49:57.:50:03.

investigation. When you are a parliamentarian you have to see

:50:04.:50:08.

where you can make a difference. We have criminal inquiries and

:50:09.:50:11.

investigative journalism and a public inquiry and we have to let

:50:12.:50:15.

them do their work can see where the outcome comes. Come back and talk to

:50:16.:50:19.

us about this. I would be delighted. How does the Queen know

:50:20.:50:26.

what her loyal MPs are up to? But she also has other

:50:27.:50:29.

ways of finding out. One of the government whips,

:50:30.:50:33.

the Vice Chamberlain of the Household, writes Her Majesty

:50:34.:50:35.

a dispatch every evening to tell In the first year of the Blair

:50:36.:50:41.

government, this task fell to Janet Anderson,

:50:42.:50:46.

who has just published her missives BBC Radio 4 has dramatised a small

:50:47.:50:49.

selection of Janet's Wednesday 8th of April,

:50:50.:50:52.

your Majesty, last day before the Easter hols,

:50:53.:50:56.

so suffice it to say that honourable At 3pm Madam Speaker announced

:50:57.:50:59.

questions to your Prime Minister, only today it was your

:51:00.:51:06.

Deputy Prime Minister and Secretary of State for the Environment,

:51:07.:51:09.

Transport and the Regions. Two million jobs being lost from our

:51:10.:51:13.

manufacturing sector... When John Bercow, a rather odious

:51:14.:51:19.

little Tory MP from Buckingham, tried to provoke your

:51:20.:51:24.

Deputy Prime Minister, This was the man, he boomed,

:51:25.:51:27.

who had been chairman of the National Federation

:51:28.:51:36.

of Conservative Students when Norman Tebbit closed it

:51:37.:51:38.

down because it was... Michael Fabricant is,

:51:39.:51:40.

the Conservative MP for Mid Staffs, who looks for all the world

:51:41.:51:51.

as though he wears a wig but won't admit it,

:51:52.:51:53.

could be described as... Your Majesty, your Secretary

:51:54.:51:55.

of State for Social Security, Harriet Harman, was first up

:51:56.:52:01.

for questions today. It is almost impossible

:52:02.:52:03.

to see her in action without recalling the hatchet job

:52:04.:52:17.

done on her by the Observer One really does wonder

:52:18.:52:19.

whether she is going to recover. Janet Anderson MP with humble duty

:52:20.:52:23.

reports Tuesday 9th of June 1998. Your Secretary of State

:52:24.:52:25.

for Social Security Harriet Harman was even spotted in the smoking room

:52:26.:52:28.

buying rounds of drinks, I can assure your Majesty this

:52:29.:52:30.

is not a regular occurrence. Mr John Bercow introduced a ten

:52:31.:52:36.

minute rule bill to prevent anyone who does not pay income tax

:52:37.:52:48.

or is resident outside the country Seems rather sensible,

:52:49.:52:51.

but what a shame it had to be introduced by such

:52:52.:52:57.

a tiresome little man. Bercow constantly bores us

:52:58.:53:01.

with his attempts to be more 11% of average earnings

:53:02.:53:04.

in the United Kingdom by contrast So irritating had this become

:53:05.:53:09.

in a recent debate on sport that Labour's Stephen Pound from Ealing

:53:10.:53:19.

was moved to comment, personally I would rather

:53:20.:53:26.

have a sex life. Janet Anderson is with us now,

:53:27.:53:35.

and we're also joined by the current occupant of that role,

:53:36.:53:39.

the Conservative MP Kris Hopkins. It is racy. What will you writing

:53:40.:53:52.

those things to the Queen for? I thought she could read Hansard if

:53:53.:53:56.

she wanted a parliamentary report. I got the sense she had a good sense

:53:57.:54:01.

of humour when I met her. I thought she might appreciate some of the

:54:02.:54:05.

gossip, what went on in the bars and the tearoom and what everyone was

:54:06.:54:09.

saying about each other. I think she did. Did she give you feedback? Not

:54:10.:54:16.

directly, but the Prime Minister did. Also her private secretary

:54:17.:54:25.

Robert Fellowes said to me how much she had enjoyed it. She used to read

:54:26.:54:34.

it every evening before dinner. As an aperitif before the main course.

:54:35.:54:40.

You going to write these daily digests to fill in the Queen what

:54:41.:54:46.

has been happening in Parliament? Janet perhaps adopted a radical

:54:47.:54:50.

approach. Are you going to do the same? I have been doing it for a

:54:51.:54:56.

year. The content remains private. It is a great privilege to write to

:54:57.:55:01.

our Majesty. I understood it was against the official secrets act to

:55:02.:55:06.

publish these so there may be space in the tower for you. You get taken

:55:07.:55:15.

hostage by the Queen. It is dramatic. I am picked up by a and

:55:16.:55:20.

said a biscuit and a cup of coffee. Is that as torturous as it becomes?

:55:21.:55:29.

There was a problem a few centuries ago when one member of the Royal

:55:30.:55:33.

Family came to the palace and did not return, so I am a hostage and

:55:34.:55:39.

win the Queen comes back I return. You are safely returned. I remember

:55:40.:55:50.

as they were leaving for Westminster Prince Philip said to me, if we do

:55:51.:55:54.

not come back safely, you get shot or something, don't you? He said, we

:55:55.:56:01.

will not be able to do that because you are going to ban handguns. They

:56:02.:56:07.

Bulls have a very good sense of humour. They were great company. The

:56:08.:56:12.

Queen is very adept at making you feel at ease. I remember my first

:56:13.:56:17.

morning in Buckingham Palace thinking, if my mother could see me,

:56:18.:56:22.

but she is so good and so skilled, and if we think of the hundreds of

:56:23.:56:26.

thousands of people she has to make small talk with almost daily, she

:56:27.:56:31.

makes you feel she is interested in you, she wants to hear what you have

:56:32.:56:38.

to say. Are you enjoying her birthday? Absolutely. Do you get a

:56:39.:56:48.

uniform? Morning suit, top hat. A wand of offers. You can perform

:56:49.:56:57.

magic tricks? It feels like that. When I was asked if I would consider

:56:58.:56:59.

taking the job my only rule was no ties. Do you get paid more? The

:57:00.:57:20.

role? The role comes as part of the government Whip roll. What is wrong

:57:21.:57:31.

with John Bercow? John would be the first to say he could be quite

:57:32.:57:37.

difficult when he first came in, but he is much more popular and I think

:57:38.:57:43.

he is a very good Speaker. You might want to re-edits some of those.

:57:44.:57:48.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:57:49.:57:51.

The question was: In a radio interview this week what did

:57:52.:57:54.

Hillary Clinton say she always carries around with her?

:57:55.:57:56.

Was it a) An American flag b) Hot sauce c) A copy of Donald Trump's

:57:57.:58:00.

So, Natalie, what's the correct answer?

:58:01.:58:04.

I do not know the answer. I was going to guess Donald Trump's route

:58:05.:58:13.

because it might be cathartic to have the punching session. The most

:58:14.:58:18.

logical answer would be coffee. It is hot sauce. I think she likes to

:58:19.:58:26.

add it to whatever she is eating. The Department for Education say

:58:27.:58:32.

that it is 66%, not 55%, of secondary schools that are

:58:33.:58:33.

academies. 5655 schools in total. You look like you've

:58:34.:58:53.

just seen the Grim Reaper. Well, it was a lot to take in,

:58:54.:59:07.

wasn't it?

:59:08.:59:10.

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