22/04/2016 Daily Politics


22/04/2016

Andrew Neil with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:36.:00:39.

Barack Obama jets into London to wish the Queen a happy birthday

:00:40.:00:42.

and tell the Brits we're better off staying in the EU.

:00:43.:00:46.

Boris Johnson says the president should keep his views to himself,

:00:47.:00:50.

but what impact will his comments have on the referendum?

:00:51.:00:55.

President Obama will meet David Cameron in Downing

:00:56.:00:58.

Top of their agenda, the fight against Islamic State.

:00:59.:01:02.

We'll discuss the military campaign against Isis.

:01:03.:01:06.

With less than two weeks until London goes to the polls

:01:07.:01:11.

to elect a new mayor, we'll take a look at the campaign to

:01:12.:01:14.

And who's had a good week and who's had a shocker?

:01:15.:01:20.

We'll review the political week in just 60 seconds.

:01:21.:01:29.

And with us for the duration, writer and journalist, Iain Martin,

:01:30.:01:34.

and the Guardian's political editor, Anushka Asthana.

:01:35.:01:37.

So Barack Obama arrived in the UK last night,

:01:38.:01:43.

ahead of a big lunch at Windsor Castle today to celebrate

:01:44.:01:45.

But it's President Obama's comments on the EU referendum -

:01:46.:01:51.

rather than his birthday wishes to our monarch - that are sure

:01:52.:01:54.

to dominate the headlines for the next 24 hours.

:01:55.:01:58.

We're expecting the president to say more in a press conference

:01:59.:02:01.

with the PM this afternoon, but in an article in today's

:02:02.:02:04.

telegraph he's already said: "The European Union doesn't moderate

:02:05.:02:09.

A strong Europe is not a threat to Britain's global leadership.

:02:10.:02:15.

It enhances Britain's global leadership."

:02:16.:02:19.

President Obama's wholehearted support for the Remain campaign has

:02:20.:02:22.

obviously irritated Leave supporters, who have suggested

:02:23.:02:25.

the US president should keep his views to himself.

:02:26.:02:28.

Here's Nigel Farage talking to me last night

:02:29.:02:30.

on This Week about whether he's right to intervene.

:02:31.:02:33.

I was in Washington last year, meeting senators who

:02:34.:02:40.

thought the EU was like Nafta, just like a friendly trade club.

:02:41.:02:43.

A less generous one is that it's in his interests

:02:44.:02:48.

of big giant American corporate businesses

:02:49.:02:53.

that Britain stays part of the EU,

:02:54.:02:55.

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership treaty.

:02:56.:03:00.

And earlier this morning, Boris Johnson also emerged

:03:01.:03:07.

to criticise Barack Obama for his stance on the UK's

:03:08.:03:10.

It's always very good to hear from Barack Obama.

:03:11.:03:15.

I'm a big fan of Barack Obama on any subject.

:03:16.:03:18.

But clearly, this is something where we have a disagreement,

:03:19.:03:21.

and I do think it's perverse that we're being urged

:03:22.:03:24.

by the United States to embroil ourselves ever more deeply

:03:25.:03:29.

in a system where our laws, 60% of them are now emanating

:03:30.:03:33.

from the EU, when the United States would not dream

:03:34.:03:37.

of subjugating itself in any way

:03:38.:03:41.

to any other international jurisdiction.

:03:42.:03:47.

Let's talk now to our correspondent Sarah Campbell,

:03:48.:03:49.

Sarah, I guess for the next couple of hours, any way, the politics gets

:03:50.:03:59.

put aside by the ceremony of this lunch between the president and the

:04:00.:04:04.

Queen. Indeed. It is a private lunch, but wouldn't it be

:04:05.:04:07.

fascinating to be a fly on the wall on that lunch? We're not going to

:04:08.:04:11.

hear about what is being discussed. As you say, the president and the

:04:12.:04:16.

First Lady due to be arriving by helicopter shortly. They will go

:04:17.:04:20.

into Windsor Castle. They have met the Queen on two previous occasions,

:04:21.:04:25.

a state visit in 2011 at Buckingham Palace. That was memorable for the

:04:26.:04:30.

picture of Michelle Obama with her arm around the waist of the Queen,

:04:31.:04:33.

going rather against royal protocol. It was taken as a sign that the two

:04:34.:04:37.

couples are quite close, that they have struck up a friendship. They

:04:38.:04:41.

met in 2009 again on a private visit. But when Mr Obama was asked

:04:42.:04:46.

in that Daily Telegraph interview, obviously this is a visit, very

:04:47.:04:49.

close to the EU referendum, that's why his comments about the EU have

:04:50.:04:52.

caused such headlines, but he said about the visit to the Queen and the

:04:53.:04:57.

timing that simply he wanted to wish her a happy birthday in person. That

:04:58.:05:01.

is of course what he's going to do here today. He will leave here, go

:05:02.:05:04.

back to London, have the press conference with David Cameron. This

:05:05.:05:08.

evening, another royal engagement, Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and

:05:09.:05:13.

Prince Harry are hosting a dinner for the couple this evening. They

:05:14.:05:16.

met William in 2014. Michelle Obama has met Harry a number of times,

:05:17.:05:22.

because she's been a very vocal supporter of the Invictus Games. A

:05:23.:05:26.

royal connection between the first family and the Queen and the rest of

:05:27.:05:32.

the Royal Family. Two royal meals in one day for the president of a great

:05:33.:05:37.

republic. You wonder why they had a revolution in the first place. Let

:05:38.:05:42.

me ask you, is Michelle Obama, is the First Lady going to either the

:05:43.:05:45.

lurchl, dinner or both? Both. Absolutely. The couple are both.

:05:46.:05:51.

They will be arriving here very shortly. You remember presidents

:05:52.:05:56.

have been here before. The Queen famously has met 11 of the last 12

:05:57.:06:01.

US presidents. Two of them have been here at Windsor Castle, George Bush

:06:02.:06:07.

and Ronald Regan. He was riding into the great park with the Queen. A

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tight schedule today. I don't think we'll get that photo opportunity.

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But it will be an interesting visit no less. Enjoy yourself covering

:06:15.:06:19.

that event. If you want to get into the lunch, mention my name, I'm sure

:06:20.:06:26.

that open a few doors. I'll do my best. What do you think? The think

:06:27.:06:30.

the Brexiteers would be advised to take the day off. I mean... That's

:06:31.:06:35.

not bad advice. I'm in the a great fan of Barack Obama personally, but

:06:36.:06:39.

the guy looks great. He's about to be pictured all day being nice to

:06:40.:06:42.

the Queen. He's the leader of the free world. Let's face it, if there

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were an election tomorrow in which the two candidates were Nigel Farage

:06:48.:06:52.

and Barack Obama in Britain, Obama would win by a landslide. What about

:06:53.:06:57.

Boris, more chance? Possibly more chance. Two Americans, Boris and Mr

:06:58.:07:02.

Obama. There's a danger for Brexiteers that it looks to normal

:07:03.:07:06.

people watching the television news bulletins as though footage of Obama

:07:07.:07:11.

looking cool, followed by footage of angry Brexit man shouting about

:07:12.:07:16.

Obama. Are you saying that Nigel Farage being on my programme This

:07:17.:07:20.

Week is not the equivalent of Mr Obama being with the Queen? Close!

:07:21.:07:28.

It's quite an early intervention in the sense we're two months away from

:07:29.:07:31.

the day. It's a powerful intervention in the sense that the

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president doesn't, he doesn't speak in diplomatic code. He talks of we

:07:37.:07:41.

have shed blood together in common battles, we have stood for common

:07:42.:07:48.

values and so on. It's a no holds barred endorsement of the Remain

:07:49.:07:52.

position We definitely know what the president thinks from the article

:07:53.:07:55.

today. I think that it is very powerful. I mean, the Leave

:07:56.:07:59.

campaigners had an argument that perhaps all the Remain arguments

:08:00.:08:04.

were a bit OTT. The NHS would break down, there would be a lost

:08:05.:08:06.

generation, we're waiting for a plague of frogs. But this week it

:08:07.:08:11.

does start to feel a little bit like, you know, actually, these are

:08:12.:08:18.

pretty powerful arguments, the former US Treasury secretary, now

:08:19.:08:21.

President Obama. The Leave campaigners feel they need to hit

:08:22.:08:25.

back. That Boris Johnson article out today. That's in the Sun. Does he

:08:26.:08:30.

describe Mr Obama as part Kenyan? What he does is he refers to the

:08:31.:08:36.

Kenyan ancestry of Barack Obama. He talks about a Winston Churchill bust

:08:37.:08:41.

being moved out of the Oval Office when Barack Obama became president.

:08:42.:08:44.

Number Ten that actually happened before he joined. But nevertheless,

:08:45.:08:48.

that's the argument that Boris Johnson is making. He's essentially

:08:49.:08:54.

arguing that some said the ancestry, the Kenyan ancestry makes him

:08:55.:08:57.

anti-British. Oh, I see. People raising questions about that. Yvette

:08:58.:09:00.

Cooper this morning saying actually that is bad judgment. If he was

:09:01.:09:05.

anti-British, why urge us to stay in the EU which he thinks is in our

:09:06.:09:09.

interests? You could make that choice. They would say he's not

:09:10.:09:15.

talking about Britain's interests but support Forjatt the EU -- for

:09:16.:09:21.

the EU. There's a long while to go and This could all be forgotten. But

:09:22.:09:26.

so far this week the Remain has President Obama and Leave's got Mr

:09:27.:09:32.

Botham. And Marine Le Pen. And Bernie Ekey. -- Bernie Ecclestone.

:09:33.:09:38.

That was bad. Not a good comparison. By the time it gets to June 23,

:09:39.:09:42.

we'll see if we even remember any of this. A long way to go.

:09:43.:09:44.

What sports team did the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,

:09:45.:09:51.

say he suspected the Queen privately supports, when he paid tribute

:09:52.:09:53.

a) St Louis Cardinals baseball team

:09:54.:10:03.

c) Montreal Canadiens ice hockey team

:10:04.:10:07.

d) Wigan Warriors rugby club

:10:08.:10:13.

At the end of the show, Iain and Anushka will give

:10:14.:10:16.

I bet you know it. Do you? Don't tell!

:10:17.:10:22.

So, we're expecting Barack Obama to give a joint press conference

:10:23.:10:25.

in the Locarno Room of the Foreign Office.

:10:26.:10:27.

It's a grand space, and David Cameron will be

:10:28.:10:29.

Before that, the president will hold talks on a range of issues

:10:30.:10:34.

Top of their agenda will be discussions on countering

:10:35.:10:42.

the terrorist threat from the so-called Islamic State.

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More than 25,000 fighters have been killed and 22,000 targets damaged

:10:46.:10:48.

or destroyed since August 2014, when coalition airstrikes

:10:49.:10:54.

in Syria and Iraq began, according to Downing Street.

:10:55.:11:00.

The president's visit comes as America increases

:11:01.:11:03.

The US has agreed to deploy an additional 200 military

:11:04.:11:08.

Eight Apache helicopters are also being deployed for the first time

:11:09.:11:14.

It comes as the Iraqi government puts an offensive to retake

:11:15.:11:19.

The Iraqi army has been make prog gross in a number of areas, but in

:11:20.:11:31.

the determination to retake Mosul, after three weeks of fighting, it

:11:32.:11:36.

had only captured three villages, casting doubt on whether it has the

:11:37.:11:40.

capability to take back Iraq's second city.

:11:41.:11:42.

Meanwhile in Syria, the truce, brokered as part of UN-led peace

:11:43.:11:45.

negotiations in Geneva, came under threat as opposition rebels

:11:46.:11:48.

The Syrian government has accused rebel groups of taking part

:11:49.:11:53.

in fighting around Aleppo, breaking terms of the truce.

:11:54.:11:57.

While rebels say they have been defending themselves.

:11:58.:12:03.

However, there was better news this week in Libya,

:12:04.:12:06.

with IS militants said to have been pushed out of the city of Derna,

:12:07.:12:11.

retreating along the coast to their stronghold of Sirte.

:12:12.:12:18.

Which they still hold along with about 180 miles of the Mediterranean

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coastline on either side of the city.

:12:24.:12:25.

Philip Hammond, travelled to Libya, where he said it was "quite

:12:26.:12:30.

possible" that the UK would receive a request from Tripoli for naval

:12:31.:12:33.

Let's talk now to our defence correspondent, Jonathan Beale.

:12:34.:12:44.

Let's begin in Iraq and then move on to Libya. How do you assess the

:12:45.:12:53.

position of the Iraqi forces as they attempt to retake Mosul at the

:12:54.:12:57.

moment? How serious is this setback? Well, I think it's a setback. What

:12:58.:13:01.

you've had from the US is the response that they have essentially

:13:02.:13:06.

put pressure on Iraq to accept these Apache helicopters, not a lot of

:13:07.:13:11.

them, eight, as you say. But there is now US artillery also surrounding

:13:12.:13:16.

Mosul, including rocket artillery. You've had an increase of US

:13:17.:13:22.

military personnel, another 200 people, US military personnel, in

:13:23.:13:29.

the country. And you have the US advisors going in to battalion

:13:30.:13:32.

level, not just brigade level, in other words getting closer to the

:13:33.:13:37.

fight. That tells you that I think Americans are worried that the

:13:38.:13:43.

Iraqis need support. They are obviously very cautious and not

:13:44.:13:46.

overriding the Iraqi government. But they realise the Iraqi security

:13:47.:13:50.

forces need help, if they are going to retake Mosul. And everybody, all

:13:51.:13:54.

the military commanders I've spoken to say, that is the goal this year.

:13:55.:13:58.

To be taken seriously they've got to start doing that. At the moment,

:13:59.:14:01.

they haven't been successful. What do you make of these figures coming

:14:02.:14:07.

out of Downing Street that 25,000 fighters have been killed in the

:14:08.:14:12.

accumulation of allied air strikes against Islamic State in Iraq and in

:14:13.:14:18.

Syria? Well, I think the first thing to say is I think you should treat

:14:19.:14:23.

any figures cautiously, in that there are not boots on the ground as

:14:24.:14:27.

in most conflicts. This is also a claim that there are no civilian

:14:28.:14:33.

casualties. It's hard to identify exactly what's going on on the

:14:34.:14:37.

ground. That figure of 25,000 is the same essentially, the Downing Street

:14:38.:14:40.

street figure, as the US-led coalition figure. The problem has

:14:41.:14:45.

been in the past that they said there were only 25,000 fighters on

:14:46.:14:50.

the ground, they killed that number already and still there are more.

:14:51.:14:54.

You have to be cautious about the figures but yes, a lot of Is

:14:55.:14:59.

fighters have been killed. They are being targeted. US forces have been

:15:00.:15:04.

going into snatch senior IS commanders on the ground. A lot of

:15:05.:15:09.

people have been killed, IS commanders, fighters, still they are

:15:10.:15:12.

clearly able to hold a lot of ground. The focus now seems to be

:15:13.:15:19.

increasingly on Libya, where IS has a stronghold around the town of

:15:20.:15:24.

Sirte. Because of the attacks in Iraq and Syria, a number of IS

:15:25.:15:28.

people have fled from there and gone to there. They had a setback in

:15:29.:15:33.

Syria, am I right in thinking they're still around that town and

:15:34.:15:38.

the coastline, IS is pretty well dug in there? It's an important force in

:15:39.:15:40.

Libya? If you're talking about Syria...

:15:41.:15:53.

Sorry, I meant Libya. In the BR, IS is a huge worry for the US and for

:15:54.:15:59.

Britain that IS has strong foothold in Syria. That is why they have been

:16:00.:16:04.

hoping for this invites from one of the governments in Libya to put

:16:05.:16:11.

trainers on the ground. We had those reports earlier that 1000 British

:16:12.:16:15.

trainers were ready to go in. The invitation has not come in and it

:16:16.:16:18.

has become clear from my conversations with British ministers

:16:19.:16:22.

that they may not get the invitation. That said, Philip

:16:23.:16:25.

Hammond has said as support of the positivity, plus maritime support

:16:26.:16:31.

and train the coastguard to tackle the migration crisis, which is also

:16:32.:16:35.

linked to the chaos going on in Libya at the moment. But really,

:16:36.:16:39.

they haven't got a problem functioning government that is

:16:40.:16:42.

confident enough to invite foreign forces in. There will be a meeting

:16:43.:16:46.

with President Obama and other senior leaders like David Cameron in

:16:47.:16:51.

Hanover soon to talk about Libya and try and look at the way forward. But

:16:52.:16:56.

at the moment, the problem is that there was not a government that has

:16:57.:17:03.

much clout and has the confidence to invite foreign forces in, and that

:17:04.:17:07.

may backfire. So they are stuck at the moment. It is a worrying

:17:08.:17:11.

situation, and they are not able to do much. Thanks for joining us.

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We've been joined now from Southampton by the Conservative

:17:16.:17:18.

MP and chairman of the Defence Select Committee, Julian Lewis.

:17:19.:17:28.

Even if the Downing Street figures need to be taken with some kind of

:17:29.:17:34.

warning, is it not clear to you that although you oppose these air

:17:35.:17:37.

strikes, they are having an effect on degrading Islamic State in Iraq

:17:38.:17:45.

and Syria? Well, you do have to take such figures with caution and I

:17:46.:17:49.

noticed that a combined figure was given for alleged inflicted

:17:50.:17:55.

casualties in both Iraq and Syria. The truth is that there has been a

:17:56.:17:59.

credible air effort in Iraq, because there are forces on the ground,

:18:00.:18:04.

Iraqi government forces, in support of which the air strikes are being

:18:05.:18:09.

carried out. There have been far fewer such strikes in Syria. The

:18:10.:18:14.

problem in Syria is that the government cannot make up its own

:18:15.:18:20.

mind to choose one of the two not very attractive alternatives, namely

:18:21.:18:27.

that the Assad regime succeeds or that the Islamists succeed. An air

:18:28.:18:32.

power by itself is hardly ever decisive. Wars have to be won by

:18:33.:18:37.

ground forces with air power in support. In Syria, we lack the

:18:38.:18:43.

ground forces that we are supposed to be supporting, where the Russians

:18:44.:18:48.

have ground forces that they are supporting. It is called the Syrian

:18:49.:18:52.

army. But presumably you are not arguing for ground forces. No, I am

:18:53.:19:00.

not. In 2013, I was one of the 39 conservative and Lib Dem so-called

:19:01.:19:05.

rebels who prevented us picking the same disastrous mistake in Syria,

:19:06.:19:12.

namely pulling down another dictator and replacing it with another

:19:13.:19:16.

Islamist state, as had been made in both Iraq and Libya. So was a good

:19:17.:19:24.

thing that Mr Putin went in to essentially says Mr Assad? Well, it

:19:25.:19:31.

depends on whether you believe, as the Government believes, that there

:19:32.:19:34.

is a third democratic, pluralistic option other than the authoritarian

:19:35.:19:40.

dictatorship of Assad on the wrong hand and another Islamist radical

:19:41.:19:48.

state on the other. But assuming there is not an Islington Labour

:19:49.:19:51.

Party ready to take over Syria, which I think is a fair assumption,

:19:52.:19:55.

was it a good thing that Mr Putin stopped Assad been toppled? It is

:19:56.:20:03.

absolutely a good thing not to pull down Arab dictators if the result is

:20:04.:20:08.

that you get another radical Islamist state. So the answer is, it

:20:09.:20:16.

is not good that there are these dictators in power, it is just less

:20:17.:20:21.

bad than the alternative. I want to move on to Libya, because it is

:20:22.:20:30.

connect to the migration crisis. But firstly, you voted against these air

:20:31.:20:36.

strikes. Of course, those of us who began our journalism in the Vietnam

:20:37.:20:40.

era were well taught to take official figures with a pinch of

:20:41.:20:46.

salt, but could you not admit that the air campaign has been more

:20:47.:20:48.

effective than its critics have said, otherwise why would these

:20:49.:20:53.

Islamic State militants be fleeing Syria to go to Libya? I don't agree

:20:54.:21:02.

with that, for the simple reason that I did not vote against air

:21:03.:21:08.

strikes in Iraq. In Iraq, there were ground forces which can benefit from

:21:09.:21:12.

the use of air strikes and therefore, I supported them. In

:21:13.:21:16.

Syria, however, the only ground forces that really count are the

:21:17.:21:20.

ground forces of the Assad dictatorship on the one hand and a

:21:21.:21:23.

ground forces of the Islamists on the other. And in Syria, there is

:21:24.:21:30.

little evidence of air strikes by us having anything other than a

:21:31.:21:34.

marginal effect, which is exactly what critics like myself predicted

:21:35.:21:41.

at the outset. I should mention that these are my personal views. I

:21:42.:21:48.

understand that, we are only asking you to speak for yourself. Some of

:21:49.:21:55.

the reports we have been getting are that a number of IS people have fled

:21:56.:21:59.

from Syria to go to Libya, which brings me onto Libya. There is talk

:22:00.:22:05.

that the British may be asked to participate in what is being called

:22:06.:22:10.

a stabilisation force that will be deployed in Libya. My understanding

:22:11.:22:13.

is that it would be around the airport in Tripoli. They would

:22:14.:22:16.

secure that and then start to do some training. Whether that is right

:22:17.:22:23.

or wrong, should the Government get the permission of Parliament to do

:22:24.:22:27.

that, or is it within the Government's power to do it without

:22:28.:22:30.

Parliamentary approval? There is no doubt that the constitutional

:22:31.:22:35.

position is that the Government has the right not only to put forces

:22:36.:22:40.

into a country, but even to send forces to fight in a country without

:22:41.:22:44.

asking Parliament first. But it would be very risky for a government

:22:45.:22:50.

to take military action if it didn't have the support of Parliament.

:22:51.:22:54.

Sometimes a government has to take military action urgently and and, of

:22:55.:23:00.

course, it needs to try and get Parliamentary support thereafter.

:23:01.:23:06.

They are meeting in Hanover in Germany on day, and this may be one

:23:07.:23:10.

of the outcomes. The Germans, of course, will not participate, but

:23:11.:23:17.

the British, French, Americans and possibly the Italians would be

:23:18.:23:24.

involved. Does the Prime Minister have to come to Parliament to get

:23:25.:23:27.

approval for this or not? In advance, no. Retrospectively, it is

:23:28.:23:35.

not a constitutional requirement. But in practical political terms, it

:23:36.:23:39.

is a necessity. Julian Lewis, thank you for joining us. Anuskha, it is a

:23:40.:23:45.

complicated picture now with events in Iraq and Syria and now in Libya.

:23:46.:23:54.

In Libya, given what Jonathan Beale was telling us, there is really a

:23:55.:23:58.

government to support. This could be another quite a. One of the things

:23:59.:24:05.

Julian points to is the question of whether you have to come to

:24:06.:24:08.

Parliament and the complexity around this. One by one, some of the

:24:09.:24:13.

invasions we have been part of have led to a situation where people are

:24:14.:24:16.

very nervous now about whether we get involved. Let's remember that

:24:17.:24:20.

after they declared victory in Libya, two years later, the British

:24:21.:24:23.

Embassy was shutting down and everyone was having to leave. There

:24:24.:24:29.

is not the appetite now to go in, and yet some MPs I speak to feel

:24:30.:24:33.

terribly sad that we've therefore did not intervene earlier in Syria,

:24:34.:24:36.

which they thought might have been the right thing to do. But when you

:24:37.:24:43.

step back a bit and look, it is hard to see what our policy should be. We

:24:44.:24:48.

invaded Iraq and occupied it with the Americans, not a huge success

:24:49.:24:57.

story. We attacked Libya, but didn't occupy it, not a huge success story.

:24:58.:25:06.

We did not invade Syria. Other than some air strikes, we have barely

:25:07.:25:10.

attacked Syria. Not a great success story! Where to go next? This is an

:25:11.:25:19.

example of Obama's failure. Luckily, it will soon not be his problem.

:25:20.:25:23.

There is a presidential election coming. But that is frightening in

:25:24.:25:27.

itself in that we know what is happening with Trump and Hillary.

:25:28.:25:33.

The options don't look good. Mrs Clinton would be more of a

:25:34.:25:36.

traditional president. Exactly what I was going to say. Surely the chaos

:25:37.:25:42.

in the Middle East place to her strengths. Would mainstream middle

:25:43.:25:48.

ground voters really trust a Ted Cruz or Donald Trump to try and

:25:49.:25:52.

untangle this complexity and come up with a coherent western policy? I

:25:53.:25:57.

would suggest that Hillary Clinton has the advantage is there. We will

:25:58.:26:02.

leave it there. Julian Lewis is still listening, I don't blame you.

:26:03.:26:07.

Now, in March's Budget, George Osborne unveiled proposals

:26:08.:26:12.

to make every school in England an academy by 2022.

:26:13.:26:14.

But the Government's plans haven't been met with universal acclaim

:26:15.:26:17.

on the Conservative backbenches, with more than a dozen Tory MPs

:26:18.:26:22.

expressing reservations, before any bill containing

:26:23.:26:23.

the measures has even been brought before the Commons.

:26:24.:26:25.

Yesterday, Schools Minister, Nick Gibb, told us the reforms

:26:26.:26:27.

would boost performance in all schools.

:26:28.:26:31.

This is about ensuring that we have good schools

:26:32.:26:34.

in every part of the country and in every local authority area,

:26:35.:26:37.

that become academies can spread that best practice

:26:38.:26:41.

to underperforming schools in the area,

:26:42.:26:43.

and underperforming schools get strong sponsors

:26:44.:26:46.

It's all about improving the quality of schools so that when the parent

:26:47.:26:51.

drops off their child at the school gates,

:26:52.:26:54.

that the school they're going to is of a high quality.

:26:55.:27:01.

We've been joined from Hull by the Shadow Schools

:27:02.:27:03.

Can we step back from the business of whether schools should be forced

:27:04.:27:19.

to become academies. Is Labour still enthusiasm about the concept of

:27:20.:27:23.

academies? We have to look at parents and children's interest.

:27:24.:27:28.

Whatever a school is, whether it is an academy or community School, what

:27:29.:27:33.

matters is it performing for parents and children. That is why the idea

:27:34.:27:37.

of forcing every school to become an academy is nonsense. That is not

:27:38.:27:44.

what I asked you. I hesitate to say this, but your party started it with

:27:45.:27:49.

academies under the Labour government. It does not sound to me

:27:50.:27:52.

from what you have said that you are very enthusiastic about the concept

:27:53.:27:56.

any more. When academies came in, they came in to support schools that

:27:57.:28:03.

had a history of decades of not delivering for the young people. It

:28:04.:28:08.

was a radical solution to a radical problem, and it worked in most

:28:09.:28:15.

cases. But we then saw a situation where the new Coalition Government

:28:16.:28:18.

made it possible for any school that wanted to to become an academy. The

:28:19.:28:25.

schools that want to become academies already have that

:28:26.:28:29.

situation in place. Those schools that are performing at good or

:28:30.:28:32.

outstanding level, why should they be made to become academies and

:28:33.:28:38.

distract all the energy and spend public money on it? This is a wrong

:28:39.:28:43.

set of priorities. I will come onto that, but you are getting off the

:28:44.:28:47.

point I am trying to get you to address. Is it your view now that

:28:48.:28:53.

you should stick only to those schools which are in trouble and

:28:54.:28:57.

that they should become academies and the rest shouldn't? Not at all.

:28:58.:29:05.

We have a mixed estate now. Some schools are academies, some are

:29:06.:29:09.

community schools. Let's not get worked up about the structure of the

:29:10.:29:12.

school. All of these schools are welcome. Would you bring academies

:29:13.:29:18.

under local government control against? I think there needs to be

:29:19.:29:22.

local government oversight and accountability for local

:29:23.:29:26.

communities. This week, we had a situation where many parents

:29:27.:29:29.

couldn't get the school of their choice for the son or daughter. But

:29:30.:29:35.

that always happens. It is getting worse under this Government. 80% of

:29:36.:29:42.

parents got their first choice. But that is a loss of parents still but

:29:43.:29:47.

didn't. We need better school place planning to make sure the places are

:29:48.:29:51.

in the right place. At the moment, we have a Government creating

:29:52.:29:55.

schools in places where they are not needed and not addressing problems

:29:56.:30:00.

in places where the schools are needed, which is irresponsible and a

:30:01.:30:06.

waste of public money. Labour has described the idea of forcing

:30:07.:30:09.

schools to become academies as privatisation of the school system.

:30:10.:30:16.

How did you work that out? We can go down a lot of ideological table

:30:17.:30:23.

tennis on this, or we can focus on children and parents. But is it or

:30:24.:30:29.

isn't it privatisation? It does move towards marketisation of the school

:30:30.:30:35.

system, but that is a distraction... You would need to ask the people

:30:36.:30:40.

doing that. But your party is to blame. We still haven't got an

:30:41.:30:44.

answer from Nick Gibb or Nicky Morgan or the Prime Minister of why

:30:45.:30:48.

they want to force schools to become academies. That is the question. You

:30:49.:30:53.

are distracting a lot of attention of parents, teachers, head teachers

:30:54.:30:57.

on to things like what we saw this morning, where the key stage one

:30:58.:31:04.

test, a lot of effort was put into that and then it goes pear shaped at

:31:05.:31:07.

the last minute because the Government has not got its act

:31:08.:31:08.

together. 66% of secondary schools in England,

:31:09.:31:17.

only England, are now academies. Isn't this the clear direction of

:31:18.:31:20.

travel now? The Government is saying all schools should become academies.

:31:21.:31:27.

Sir Michael Wilshaw said, wrote to the Secretary of State and said

:31:28.:31:31.

seven large academy chains were failing and asked the Secretary of

:31:32.:31:34.

State to do something about it. We should have systems in place to

:31:35.:31:37.

address failure, whether it happens in an academy or in a maintained

:31:38.:31:41.

school. That's the key issue to focus on, not to say that every

:31:42.:31:45.

school must be an academy because we like that name above the door.

:31:46.:31:49.

That's ideological nonsense. Thank you for joining us. It wasn't in the

:31:50.:31:58.

Tory manifesto. It was kind of sprung on us by not the Education

:31:59.:32:03.

Secretary, but by the Chancellor in the Budget. Was this just an idea to

:32:04.:32:09.

give George Osborne something for what was then his campaign to be the

:32:10.:32:13.

next Prime Minister? David Cameron actually did first speak about this

:32:14.:32:17.

at his conference speech. I think they see this as an example of how

:32:18.:32:21.

they are big reformers, that they can really shake up the

:32:22.:32:25.

edgeindication system. So -- education system. So to that extent

:32:26.:32:29.

it was there to hit back against critics who were saying actually

:32:30.:32:33.

you're not doing anything, you're completely paralysed because of the

:32:34.:32:36.

EU referendum. But I think it's causing them some problem. Most of

:32:37.:32:42.

us would agree that Jeremy Corbyn had one of his best Prime Minister's

:32:43.:32:45.

Questions this week, six questions based on this. Courting a lot of

:32:46.:32:54.

Conservatives. Yeah, big figures Graham Braidy, Graham Stuart, the

:32:55.:32:57.

former chair of the education Select Committee. It's not the people who

:32:58.:33:01.

are against academies per se, you mention secondary schools, this is

:33:02.:33:04.

more of an issue for primary schools. Because they will be

:33:05.:33:07.

included in this plan. There's many more of them and they will be

:33:08.:33:13.

included. Does acad piesation improve standards and should good

:33:14.:33:16.

schools be forced to do it? Critics say no. The National Assocaition of

:33:17.:33:20.

Head Teachers, not really trouble makers as far as unions go, wrote to

:33:21.:33:24.

dozens of MPs this week to say village schools could be at risk

:33:25.:33:27.

because the Government are trying to push people into multiacademy chains

:33:28.:33:30.

and actually, that's not good for a lot of Conservative MPs. This is

:33:31.:33:36.

really, this is the completion of a very long Tory story going back to

:33:37.:33:42.

the early 1990s, when Major was under pressure to extend the grant

:33:43.:33:47.

maintained programme. In that sense, and force all schools to become

:33:48.:33:53.

grant maintained, and didn't. The sense among Tories was after that it

:33:54.:33:59.

petered out and it was re-invented as the academy programme. If they're

:34:00.:34:02.

going to do that, this is where the weakness is, you've got to get the

:34:03.:34:06.

politics absolutely right. Doing it in the terms that Andrew described

:34:07.:34:10.

in the Budget, let's face it George Osborne was looking for stuff to pad

:34:11.:34:15.

out a Budget which was pretty thin and to make him look like a leader

:34:16.:34:18.

in waiting. It made no sense whatsoever to have the Chancellor of

:34:19.:34:22.

the Exchequer announcing that or making such a big play of it, rather

:34:23.:34:28.

than doing it properly, calmly, via the Education Secretary and through

:34:29.:34:31.

proper consultation. No consultation or debate. She will strive to unpick

:34:32.:34:38.

it. She is listening. Innicy Morgan wants -- Nicky Morgan wants to do

:34:39.:34:41.

it, but she's listening to the critics. Probably more than tweaks.

:34:42.:34:42.

Concessions. Junior doctors are going

:34:43.:34:45.

on an unprecedented, all-out strike next Tuesday

:34:46.:34:47.

and Wednesday, in protest at the Government's decision to impose

:34:48.:34:50.

a controversial new contract. That decision was taken

:34:51.:34:53.

by the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, after negotiations

:34:54.:34:55.

with the British Medical Association failed to come up with a compromise

:34:56.:34:58.

both sides could back. Here is Jeremy Hunt announcing his

:34:59.:35:01.

decision in a statement Progress has been made on almost 100

:35:02.:35:03.

different points of discussion, with agreement secured with the BMA

:35:04.:35:10.

on approximately 90% of them. Sadly, despite this progress

:35:11.:35:16.

and willingness from the Government to be flexible on the crucial

:35:17.:35:19.

issue of Saturday pay, advising that a negotiated solution

:35:20.:35:23.

is not realistically possible. That was Jeremy Hunt in February,

:35:24.:35:31.

announcing his decision to impose a new contract on junior doctors,

:35:32.:35:34.

after the British Medical Association rejected

:35:35.:35:37.

a best and final offer We've been joined by a junior doctor

:35:38.:35:40.

and campaigner, Dagan Lonsdale. Welcome to the programme. As you

:35:41.:35:54.

move to an all-out strike, you must be concerned that the public support

:35:55.:36:00.

you have enjoyed so far could now atrophy. I think the first thing to

:36:01.:36:05.

say as we're a few days ahead of unprecedented action in the NHS, it

:36:06.:36:09.

is a real shame that the Government refuse continually to do the one

:36:10.:36:12.

thing that would stop strikes, the one thing in their power to stop

:36:13.:36:15.

strikes, that is to engage in a conversation with the people who

:36:16.:36:18.

work on the shop floor and look after the patients. The Government

:36:19.:36:23.

says it had 75 meetings with you and made 73 Government concessions. Why

:36:24.:36:26.

would one more meeting make a difference? The Government love to

:36:27.:36:29.

spin that they are the ones making all the concessions. The BMA have

:36:30.:36:34.

done that as well. A contract is not finished until the contract is

:36:35.:36:37.

finished. It is not good enough to simply throw your hands up in the

:36:38.:36:40.

air and say it's going to be imposed. You don't need to just

:36:41.:36:43.

listen to doctors. The vice-presidents of the Patients'

:36:44.:36:47.

Association today say there are legitimate safety concerns over the

:36:48.:36:51.

proposed contract and tone force it risks danger to patients and would

:36:52.:36:55.

be neglect. So there are lots of people, the heads of all the royal

:36:56.:36:59.

colleges, the junior doctors themselves, both grass-roots and BMA

:37:00.:37:03.

all saying it's time to talk with the Health Secretary and until we

:37:04.:37:06.

can have a negotiated settlement, we won't have an NHS that is safe and

:37:07.:37:10.

sustainable. Are patients going to be at risk next week? The first

:37:11.:37:14.

thing we need to be clear about is what's being proposed? The

:37:15.:37:17.

Government are trying to spin that junior doctors are leaving patients

:37:18.:37:20.

in the lurch. That is untrue. That's why I'm asking you, tell us the

:37:21.:37:24.

truth. We're having nine hours where care will be delivered by the most

:37:25.:37:29.

experienced doctors in the hospital, consultants and non-junior doctor

:37:30.:37:31.

grade doctors. To suggest that those professionals are unable to look

:37:32.:37:35.

after patients for nine hours is frankly insulting to them and - Are

:37:36.:37:40.

they at risk or not? The fact of the matter is that Trusts have had six

:37:41.:37:44.

weeks to prepare for this strike action. They have had plenty of time

:37:45.:37:48.

to mitigate the risk. So they won't be at risk? My view is with the

:37:49.:37:52.

notice that has been given to Trusts and the fact that Trusts have, in my

:37:53.:37:58.

case, hundreds of consultants, at their call they have plenty of time

:37:59.:38:02.

to make plans to make things safe. The fact remains, we don't want to

:38:03.:38:05.

have to cancel patient appointments, we don't want operations to be

:38:06.:38:08.

cancelled. We want to look after patients. What separates you now, is

:38:09.:38:11.

it all down now just to Saturday pay? Again, this is just an example

:38:12.:38:15.

of Government spinning and Government rhetoric. There are

:38:16.:38:21.

legitimate safety concerns about the contract primarily around the fact

:38:22.:38:24.

that seven day NHS was scribbled on the back of an envelope at the last

:38:25.:38:30.

election. If the Government was more generous with Saturday pay, would

:38:31.:38:34.

that pretty much do it? Again, I think this narrative that doctors

:38:35.:38:37.

are just interested in money is not the truth. It's not a narrative,

:38:38.:38:41.

it's a simple question. If the Government was more generous on

:38:42.:38:45.

Saturday pay, would that bring the dispute to an end? No. Absolutely

:38:46.:38:50.

not. Junior doctors have had a 15% real terms pay cut in the last five

:38:51.:38:53.

years. The pensions attacked twice. This is not about money. This is

:38:54.:38:57.

about a safe set of working conditions. What is the further

:38:58.:39:01.

concessions the Government has to do to bring the dispute to an end? In

:39:02.:39:05.

my view the first thing we need to do is have a full and Frank

:39:06.:39:08.

discussion about what seven-day NHS means, what we can afford and what

:39:09.:39:12.

can be safely staffed. Why haven't you had that in the 75 meetings

:39:13.:39:16.

you've had? That's a for Government. I notice they haven't put anyone up

:39:17.:39:20.

to debate the matter here. We see that a junior doctor is prepared to

:39:21.:39:24.

come and stand and defend the arguments that junior doctors have

:39:25.:39:26.

been putting forward but Government aren't prepared for debate. They

:39:27.:39:30.

know if they're debated on facts, the lack of staff and funding

:39:31.:39:34.

they'll be found wanting. This is a pledge to win votes in the election.

:39:35.:39:38.

What you would need to ends this is the Government to say we're going to

:39:39.:39:42.

deploy more star and we're going to deploy more funding? I think those

:39:43.:39:47.

are key issues if we want a fully functioning seven-day NHS with

:39:48.:39:50.

elective services across the weekend. I don't think that's

:39:51.:39:54.

unreasonable. You and I both know that's highly - you may be right by

:39:55.:39:57.

the way, in saying that's what needs to be done, that's not the issue for

:39:58.:40:02.

me. You and I both know that the Government is not going to do that.

:40:03.:40:05.

Where does this go? The first thing that needs to happen is that doctors

:40:06.:40:09.

and Government need to talk and that is so, so simple. You have been

:40:10.:40:13.

talking, we've ended up with a strike. You're absolutely right.

:40:14.:40:16.

There needs to be honest discussions. The Government need to

:40:17.:40:19.

be honest about what they can afford. It is not my job to come up

:40:20.:40:23.

with the policy that is funded, that is staffed. It is my job to make

:40:24.:40:27.

sure that patients are safe in the long-term of the NHS and that is

:40:28.:40:30.

what junior doctors have been fighting for. Where will this go?

:40:31.:40:36.

It's been extremely embarrassing and very damaging for the Government.

:40:37.:40:41.

Now it's crossing that line whereas you move to all-out action, I think

:40:42.:40:48.

you run a real risk of losing the public support and testing the

:40:49.:40:54.

public's patience really. Also, I think the idea that it was yet again

:40:55.:40:58.

a plea for more money and more resources. The country is still

:40:59.:41:06.

running a ?70 billion - 74. ?74 billion deficit at the top of the

:41:07.:41:10.

cycle, with the economy not looking too hot. I don't think there is

:41:11.:41:16.

going to be that much more money to go around. Maybe the Government

:41:17.:41:21.

should never have gone down this seven-day a week Health Service in

:41:22.:41:24.

the first place, if it hasn't got the extra resources? One of the big

:41:25.:41:28.

things ahead of the election they said they were going to sign up to

:41:29.:41:33.

the call for more money in the NHS but never quite explained where the

:41:34.:41:36.

money was actually going to come from. For the public with all of

:41:37.:41:39.

this, one of the things that's complicated is they don't understand

:41:40.:41:41.

what's going on in the contract. They don't know what this is about.

:41:42.:41:46.

On the one hand, bad news for Jeremy Hunt to get into such a big fight

:41:47.:41:50.

with the nation's doctors. On the other hand, clearly a bit of a risk,

:41:51.:41:53.

because most people don't get paid as much as doctors.

:41:54.:41:57.

We have to leave it there. We thank you for coming on. We'll keep an eye

:41:58.:42:06.

on this. Grateful to you. Straight to Windsor. There you can see the

:42:07.:42:11.

president has arrived with the First Lady. Just got off that enormous

:42:12.:42:17.

helicopter that the president of the United States has, speaking to the

:42:18.:42:20.

Queen. The Queen not wearing her crown today, some of you will have

:42:21.:42:27.

noticed. Juf a headscarf. She's meeting a small "r" republican.

:42:28.:42:31.

Prince Philip as well. We're told the chemistry between the four of

:42:32.:42:34.

them is actually rather powerful. That's why the Queen was very happy

:42:35.:42:39.

that both the president and the First Lady were coming to lunch.

:42:40.:42:42.

Prince Philip there organising things, as always, as he climbs into

:42:43.:42:49.

the car. They're going to lunch around 1pm at Windsor Castle. They

:42:50.:42:55.

are then, the president will then zoom back into London where he's

:42:56.:42:58.

going to meet the Prime Minister around 3pm. There we are, the

:42:59.:43:02.

president and First Lady of the United States have arrived at

:43:03.:43:07.

Windsor Castle to have lunch with the Queen to celebrate her 90th

:43:08.:43:09.

birthday. In just under two weeks' time,

:43:10.:43:12.

Londoners go to the polls to decide In a minute, we'll discuss the state

:43:13.:43:15.

of the campaign, but first, let's take a look at the runners

:43:16.:43:19.

and riders all hoping to take over I want London to be affordable

:43:20.:43:23.

to Londoners, because if it's not, London will cease to be

:43:24.:43:43.

the important city that it is. I think I've got the experience, the

:43:44.:43:50.

vision and the values to be a mayor Quite leftie Liberal

:43:51.:43:56.

Democrat manifesto. It's too dominated by

:43:57.:44:07.

egos, this election. If you want a really radical mayor,

:44:08.:44:15.

you do need to vote Green. There's huge division now in London,

:44:16.:44:24.

and as a Londoner born and bred, that's one of the things that

:44:25.:44:27.

worries me most. And we've been joined

:44:28.:44:38.

by Ayesha Hazarika, who was political advisor

:44:39.:44:40.

to Harriet Harman, and by Harry Phibbs, who writes

:44:41.:44:43.

for the Conservative Home website. A number of Conservatives I speak to

:44:44.:44:56.

say that Mr Goldsmith's campaign has been lacklustre. Boris Johnson is a

:44:57.:45:00.

tough act to follow. You go on a walk about and there's the mania of

:45:01.:45:04.

a pop star. That's a bit difficult for him. If we were talking about it

:45:05.:45:09.

in terms of the polls, I think it will all be about turnout. The poor

:45:10.:45:14.

old pollsters, we know to be sceptical about them. You think

:45:15.:45:18.

there's still a chance? The polls are now, one of the polls I saw was

:45:19.:45:23.

he was about 11 points behind. Yes, but then, we talk about lying

:45:24.:45:26.

politicians but you have lying electorate. Those polls saying it's

:45:27.:45:30.

going to be 50% turnout. I don't believe that for a second. There's a

:45:31.:45:34.

trouble, the problem for Zac with the turnout that a lot of

:45:35.:45:40.

Conservatives are on the edge, outer London, but London's bureaucratic

:45:41.:45:43.

entity don't think of themselves as Londoners, they think of themselves

:45:44.:45:47.

as living in Kent, Surrey or Essex. To try and persuade them, they find

:45:48.:45:52.

it slightly insulting to be called Londoners. To persuade them to vote

:45:53.:45:55.

is a challenge for the Conservatives. Is it a good way to

:45:56.:45:59.

Garner votes to call them liars? The opinion pollsters end up with these

:46:00.:46:03.

figures and you know, I think it's a problem for them. The attacks on the

:46:04.:46:15.

kind of people Sadiq Khan has been mixing with, when he was a lawyer,

:46:16.:46:19.

has been more virulent from the campaign. Is this a sign of

:46:20.:46:20.

desperation? Of course it is an issue. Jeremy

:46:21.:46:29.

Corbyn was challenged about his extremist links, and the idea that

:46:30.:46:35.

Sadiq Khan should say it is anti-Muslim for him to be questioned

:46:36.:46:39.

is ridiculous. It is not that he shares those views himself, but that

:46:40.:46:43.

it is poor judgment. Just as he nominated Jeremy Corbyn but says he

:46:44.:46:46.

doesn't agree with Jeremy Corbyn, then why is he standing up for

:46:47.:46:51.

people if he doesn't agree with those views? He is mad, we will be

:46:52.:46:56.

back with the Ken Livingstone thinks of people in City Hall pushing a

:46:57.:47:01.

divisive message. What do you say to that? It smacks of desperation from

:47:02.:47:07.

the Conservative campaign that they are having to resort to this. This

:47:08.:47:12.

is one of the worst political campaigns we have seen in a long

:47:13.:47:19.

time, and I include the Edstone, it is that bad! People feel that the

:47:20.:47:26.

Zac campaign failed to launch. When Zac was selected, people on the

:47:27.:47:29.

Labour side were worried because he is a charismatic guy, independent

:47:30.:47:34.

thinking. He is of the centre, seems gentle and kind, he could be a real

:47:35.:47:38.

threat. That it has almost been like the Zac has been locked away and a

:47:39.:47:43.

very nasty campaign is taking place which even Zac looks uncomfortable

:47:44.:47:47.

with. I know why they have done it. They have gone for the old school

:47:48.:47:52.

playbook, push a brutal message of fear. I don't think it will work in

:47:53.:47:56.

London. I think London is a very different type of city. It is a more

:47:57.:48:00.

tolerant city, and I think it has misjudged the mood of the country.

:48:01.:48:05.

You don't thing Zac has any questions to answer? He said to me

:48:06.:48:09.

that he regretted giving the impression that by appearing on

:48:10.:48:11.

platforms with these people, he shared their views. You mean Sadiq

:48:12.:48:20.

Khan. Sorry, yes. He was a human rights lawyer and the nature of that

:48:21.:48:24.

job is that you are mixing with people who are controversial. But he

:48:25.:48:28.

wasn't just doing it as a lawyer, he often appeared on platforms with

:48:29.:48:33.

them. As a lawyer, you have to represent whoever you are told to,

:48:34.:48:37.

but it was more than that, he appeared on platforms. Is that not a

:48:38.:48:45.

legitimate issue to raise? It is, and he has tried to explain himself

:48:46.:48:50.

about to go on and on and trans mayhem by association seems

:48:51.:48:54.

desperate. I think Sadiq should take heart from this. We have just seen

:48:55.:48:57.

Barack Obama arriving and they have tried to smear him in terms of being

:48:58.:49:06.

Muslim. Sorry, who? On this trip? You mean in earlier days. Yes, and

:49:07.:49:18.

it didn't go so well. David Cameron, of course, mentioned the people

:49:19.:49:25.

Sadiq had been sharing a platform within Prime Minister's Questions. I

:49:26.:49:29.

did it in the debate as well. But it turns out that one that we both

:49:30.:49:35.

mentioned is actually a member of the local Conservative Party and is

:49:36.:49:42.

supporting Sadiq Khan's local Conservative rival. That was news to

:49:43.:49:47.

the Conservative candidate for Tooting, who had no knowledge of him

:49:48.:49:53.

supporting him. It is a question of judgment. If you are repeatedly

:49:54.:49:56.

appearing on a platform and repeatedly trying to stick up for

:49:57.:50:03.

people... What is unfair about it saying that Zac Goldsmith is only

:50:04.:50:08.

being negative. He has a very positive manifesto which has not had

:50:09.:50:14.

much attention. The most important difference between what Zac and what

:50:15.:50:19.

Boris has been doing is over the tower blocks and what houses look

:50:20.:50:28.

like. There is an agenda for saying if we want new houses, you have to

:50:29.:50:39.

make them attractive and turn the NIMBYs into people who are

:50:40.:50:44.

pro-beauty in my backyard. So instead of new buildings meaning

:50:45.:50:46.

London gets more ugly, it is possible to have houses that are

:50:47.:50:53.

more attractive. And you wonder why Zac Goldsmith is 11 points behind

:50:54.:50:57.

with a slogan like that! Until now, the slogan has not been broadcast BA

:50:58.:51:08.

Bimby, not a NIMBY. I can already see the hashtag! The polls suggest

:51:09.:51:13.

that Labour will win London. I would suggest that the significance of

:51:14.:51:17.

that is that although Labour are doing badly in Scotland, England and

:51:18.:51:26.

in Wales, Mr Corbyn cannot afford to lose London. He is a London Labour

:51:27.:51:32.

MP. He is surrounded by London MPs. It is a metropolitan Labour Party

:51:33.:51:35.

now and he cannot you lose in his own backyard. No. I wrote about this

:51:36.:51:41.

a long time ago, saying London was almost like a cup final for Labour.

:51:42.:51:45.

They needed it to rally troops elsewhere in the country. There is a

:51:46.:51:49.

big debate in the Labour Party about what success means elsewhere, but

:51:50.:51:54.

London just has to come. Actually, it does look like Sadiq is on track

:51:55.:52:00.

to win, despite what you have been talking about. And I think Zac

:52:01.:52:04.

Goldsmith believes it is probably about judgment, and that is why they

:52:05.:52:09.

are talking about Sadiq's individuals with certain

:52:10.:52:11.

individuals. I think he might look back at the end of this and feel it

:52:12.:52:14.

was a bit grubby. There were leaflets at the beginning talking

:52:15.:52:17.

about radical people with Sadiq Khan. That was about politics, not

:52:18.:52:28.

religion. There were people who have appeared with Goldsmith himself. As

:52:29.:52:32.

someone who is non-white, why do we criticise non-white people when they

:52:33.:52:36.

appear in this way? It makes me uncomfortable. I know people on

:52:37.:52:41.

Zac's team who I am sure are not doing this in a grubby way and do

:52:42.:52:44.

think it is about judgment, but it could backfire with people feeling

:52:45.:52:49.

like this about it. I take that point, but it is pretty tame

:52:50.:52:53.

compared to mayoral contests in the United States, the dog whistle

:52:54.:53:00.

politics and borderline corruption. This has been a pretty gentle

:53:01.:53:04.

affair. I think the Goldsmith campaign, it might not work this

:53:05.:53:08.

time, but it worked for Boris twice and in both of those elections,

:53:09.:53:13.

everyone said, let Boris be Boris. They have cut his hair, they are

:53:14.:53:17.

constraining him, he is not the candidate he was, and it worked. It

:53:18.:53:21.

is all about targeting what is referred to as the doughnut, those

:53:22.:53:27.

voters in outer London. The use of the word radical is the deliberate

:53:28.:53:30.

to say to people who live in Outer London and who pay the taxes, you

:53:31.:53:35.

want a London run by Jeremy Corbyn and his friends? It is about

:53:36.:53:48.

associating that link. But the undertone is, do you want London to

:53:49.:53:54.

be run by a Muslim? Do you think Zac Goldsmith wants that question to be

:53:55.:53:57.

asked? I think his campaign team do. That is unfair. That is absolute

:53:58.:54:03.

nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn has been challenged about his links, rightly.

:54:04.:54:09.

Yvette Cooper challenged him and now she is saying to make the equivalent

:54:10.:54:13.

challenge to Sadiq Khan is racist. It is insulting to all the Muslims

:54:14.:54:17.

who don't have these extreme views. Of course he should be challenged

:54:18.:54:21.

and he should answer the questions being put. This time in two weeks,

:54:22.:54:26.

we will know the result, I think. It is a competitive system and they may

:54:27.:54:29.

still be counting! And you can see details

:54:30.:54:31.

of all the candidates standing for London Mayor

:54:32.:54:33.

and the London Assembly on the BBC's Continuing rows over Europe,

:54:34.:54:36.

McDonald's bans, Her Majesty's 90th plus the leader of the free world

:54:37.:54:45.

popping in for a visit. Here's the week's political

:54:46.:54:48.

news in 60 seconds. George Osborne kicked

:54:49.:54:54.

off the week warning GDP will be over 6% smaller,

:54:55.:54:56.

and Britain will be worse off The next day, the Leave campaign's

:54:57.:55:01.

heavyweight, Michael Gove, Treats people, I'm

:55:02.:55:09.

afraid, like children. Labour's NEC banned McDonald's

:55:10.:55:12.

from running a stall at the party's annual

:55:13.:55:14.

conference, a move that During PMQs, Jeremy Corbyn raised

:55:15.:55:16.

concerns about plans to turn Against the wishes of teachers,

:55:17.:55:23.

parents, school governors David Cameron insisted

:55:24.:55:28.

the Government will finish the job. On Thursday, the Business Secretary

:55:29.:55:34.

said he was willing to take a 25% stake in any rescue

:55:35.:55:36.

of Tata Steel's UK operation. And on the day of the royal 9-0,

:55:37.:55:42.

US President Barack Obama flew in to wish Her Majesty well

:55:43.:55:45.

and to give the British people a friendly warning of the dangers

:55:46.:55:48.

of the UK leaving the EU. You sometimes hear people say there

:55:49.:56:07.

is a disconnect between the Westminster bubble and what is

:56:08.:56:10.

happening in the real world. And when you look at the EU referendum

:56:11.:56:15.

and the arguments going on over the President's visit or whatever, even

:56:16.:56:18.

the London elections, and then you look at what is happening in Port

:56:19.:56:23.

Talbot, where proper jobs and communities are now at stake,

:56:24.:56:28.

critics say the Government has not had a consistent policy. You begin

:56:29.:56:33.

to see that there is a disconnect. There is a disconnect, and we in the

:56:34.:56:42.

media deserve criticism as well. It was a huge issue for three or four

:56:43.:56:47.

days, maybe slightly longer, and then it was just overtaken and

:56:48.:56:51.

disappeared and the story has not been reported with the same

:56:52.:56:54.

intensity. A few papers are accepted. And as you say, real jobs

:56:55.:57:02.

are at stake, thousands of them. The media attention span on this has

:57:03.:57:07.

been quite short. True, it was on the front pages for a few days and

:57:08.:57:11.

it is not now. We are still writing about it every day and listening to

:57:12.:57:15.

what MPs are saying about it. As you say, real jobs at risk and real

:57:16.:57:19.

questions about a long term industrial strategy that might get

:57:20.:57:23.

the steel industry through this difficult period with Chinese

:57:24.:57:27.

dumping that is going on. But as you say, we need to stay on it. And it

:57:28.:57:30.

looks like the Government may in four parts nationalisation, not done

:57:31.:57:35.

by the Tories since Mrs Thatcher stepped in to rescue Caledonian. It

:57:36.:57:43.

looks like they are about to concede. Personally, I think that is

:57:44.:57:48.

a mistake. I think the lesson from the banking crisis is that it is

:57:49.:57:52.

easy to demand nationalisation. But you can then often find yourself,

:57:53.:58:00.

ten years down the line, owning a share of an industry which has

:58:01.:58:06.

longer term problems. But very difficult to get out of this without

:58:07.:58:10.

serious investment from the UK do it. These companies are in trouble.

:58:11.:58:16.

The spark ah assets were losing ?2 million a day at one point -- these

:58:17.:58:20.

Tata assets were losing. There's just time before we go

:58:21.:58:23.

to find out the answer to our quiz. What sports team did

:58:24.:58:26.

the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, suggest

:58:27.:58:29.

the Queen privately supports? Which one was it? I am going with

:58:30.:58:39.

Wigan. I think it is Wigan. You are both wrong, it is Arsenal.

:58:40.:58:42.

Thanks to Iain, Anushka and all my guests.

:58:43.:58:44.

I'll be back on Sunday at 11am with the Sunday Politics,

:58:45.:58:48.

when I'll be talking to the Shadow Education Secretary,

:58:49.:58:50.

Actually, I will be on at a later time of 1:40 p.m.. I know you are

:58:51.:59:00.

looking forward to it.

:59:01.:59:02.

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