Browse content similar to 05/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Unaccompanied child migrants already in Europe will be given refuge | :00:36. | :00:44. | |
in Britain as David Cameron performs a U-turn ahead | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
But could the move encourage more to come? | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
The EU gives its conditional backing for a deal that allows 77 million | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
Turks visa-free travel to Europe's passport-free Schengen zone. | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
Is this a step closer for EU membership for Turkey? | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
Donald Trump's almost certain to be the Republican | :01:07. | :01:17. | |
presidential candidate, but how would he square up against the | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
# Say you don't believe in signs from up above. | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
And why has the Welsh Flag been banned from the | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
All the big issues of our time on this election day broadcast. | :01:29. | :01:45. | |
Diplomatic Editor of Sky who now edits a website called | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
As opposed to the loo. Not, the who. Welcome back to the programme. As we | :01:51. | :02:00. | |
came near, a development in the junior doctors dispute. Let's go | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
straight to Hugh Pym. I understand that the government is now doing | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
something with the contract it said it was going to impose this summer? | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
That's right. Never mind a week being a long time, three hours as | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
long time in politics. In essence, a proposal was put the medical | :02:21. | :02:28. | |
leadership, backed up by senior management, to put aside for a week | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
of their main issues. The government will suspend for a week the idea of | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
imposing the contract. In return, the BMA will suspend for a week or | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
five days the idea of pursuing further strike action. The BMA | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
immediately said this looked promising but the initial government | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
reaction earlier this morning was that this was not possible because | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
it was not possible to suspend the work being done on the new contract. | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
They were prepared to have other talks. But literally half an hour | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
ago, the Health Minister told the Lords that Jeremy Hunt would be | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
writing to the Academy of royal colleges saying that he would be | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
willing to enter into talks on Monday and agree to this temporary | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
suspension, as long as the BMA agreed to talk about what they feel | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
are the key issues, working hours and pay. We have not yet had a | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
formal reaction to this from the BMA, but certainly very interesting, | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
a change in the whole story. So the BMA has blinked, to use the language | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
of these industrial disputes. And the government has blinked in its | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
own way. They must be a hope, I put it no higher than that, but at least | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
a hope that we could see some kind of resolution in the week ahead? | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
That is possible. There have not been any talks at all since February | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
when Jeremy Hunt decided to press on and introduce this new contract. He | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
felt he had made a lot of concessions already and the BMA | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
refused to negotiate. They formerly disputed that. In addition to the | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
contract being announced, he pressed on. At least this is the prospect of | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
talks and getting them back around a table which is what the senior | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
leadership of the medical profession really wanted to see. There is a | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
chance of that happening now. Whether it can be resolved in five | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
days, it has taken them to match or three years to get to this point. A | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
tall order but things seem to be changing. And you will be on the | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
story for the BBC. Thank you for joining us. Quite a development | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
there. Turning now to another issue of dispute. | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
The U-turn began yesterday at Prime Minister's Questions. | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
Having insisted that Britain was doing more than any other | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
European country to help refugees, David Cameron bowed to pressure | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
and said Britain would take in unaccompanied child | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
Yesterday David Cameron announced a U-turn on the government's policy | :04:42. | :04:50. | |
on the UK accepting more unaccompanied child | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
The government currently takes children from camps in Syria | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
and its neighbours as part of its pledge to take 20,000 | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
And in January, they agreed to take some additional child | :05:03. | :05:15. | |
refugees directly from North Africa and the Middle East. | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
But before yesterday, the PM had ruled out taking children | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
directly from mainland Europe, saying it would create a pull factor | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
The climb down came as Conservative backbenchers, including | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
Heidi Allen and Will Quince, threatened to rebel on the issue | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
Downing Street have not said how many children will be given | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the right to live in Britain, but officials are working | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
on an assumption that it will be between 1,000 and 2,000. | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
Only unaccompanied children registered | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
as refugees in Greece, Italy and France before March 20th | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
We're joined now from Stoke by UKIP's deputy leader, | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
Paul Nuttall, and here in the studio by the Conservative MP, | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
Steven Phillips, who has just retuned from visiting refugee camps | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
Welcome to both of you. Stephen Phillips, you have any idea, as you | :06:06. | :06:14. | |
had any indication how many child refugees coming to Britain we're | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
talking about? No is the short answer. The government is consulting | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
with local authorities. The numbers being bandied around by ministers | :06:26. | :06:33. | |
look like between one and 3000. -- 1000 and 3000. You have to take into | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
account the ability of local authorities to look after these | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
children properly. And that, I think, is one of the good amendments | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
that was made when the Lords sent the amendment back to us, which the | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
government has now accepted, and I think they would probably have been | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
defeated next week if they had not. According to Eurostat, there are | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
almost 90,000 unaccompanied children seeking asylum in Europe last year | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
alone. Would it not be fair to say that the figure that we are taking, | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
if it is as low as 1000 it is a token gesture? I don't think it is. | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
1000 out of 90,000? There are other countries in Europe that can help | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
aside from us and if everybody plays their part, we can deal with these | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
unaccompanied children. Well, if everyone of them took 1000, that | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
would only be 27,000 out of 90,000. I met with the Greek Home Secretary | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
yesterday and Greece is in a to accept, even with its austerity and | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
everything else in forced upon it, they say they are in a position to | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
take 50,000 refugees, some of whom will be unaccompanied children. So | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
Greece will perhaps be taking up to 50 times as many as we are taking? | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
Greece, as you know, is a country whose GDP is 30% smaller than it was | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
six years ago, where living standards have collapsed, and even | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
middle-class people can be found rummaging for food. That is refugees | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
generally, that is what they said they can cope with. That is what I | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
was told yesterday when I visited with Yvette Cooper. Some of those | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
will be unaccompanied children and a lot of those are not. They are | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
families forced to flee Syria and other places as well. If everybody | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
plays their part, the important thing is that Britain will do its | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
bit, as we always have done. Paul Nuttall, should we be doing our bit | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
with these unaccompanied children, many of them just disappearing | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
altogether? We fear that they are prey to people traffickers, and they | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
end up in child abuse, perhaps child prostitution. Should we be doing our | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
bit to help, even at -- even if it is only on the margins? Firstly, | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
none of us want to see children in camps and children destitute on the | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
streets. Of course we should be doing our bit, but my problem is | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
that I think we are doing a grand job out in Jordan and Lebanon, with | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
charities telling us that for every one person we bring to Britain, we | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
can help 20 or 30 out in the camps already. The other issue we have is | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
that there are 40,000 children in this country now awaiting foster | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
homes. Will they be pushed to the back of the queue? I hope not. And | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
we do not know the numbers that will come back. At the same time, I think | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
Cameron is generally getting this right in the sense that he is asking | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
local councils first to see what they can cope with in terms of | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
school places, in terms of foster homes, so he is getting it right on | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
this point but equally I would like to see the money spent in the camps | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
which exist already. But we are already spending money on the camps. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
The government tells us endlessly that we are spending more than any | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
other country except the United States, which means that per capita | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
we are spending more than any other country. I am unclear if you think | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
we should make any contribution to the plight of the unaccompanied | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
children already in the European Union, that some of them should be | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
taken in by this country or not? My fear is that we will be encouraging | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
even more traffic. It could be a pull factor. I think the Prime | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
Minister was probably right on his point before at this decision was | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
taken. We do not want to see more children being brought through | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
Turkey and the GMC, forced across Europe, because it puts money into | :10:22. | :10:32. | |
the pockets of the traffickers. -- through Turkey and the Aegean Sea. | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
So that is a no? Well, it is a caveat. I would like to see how many | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
are going to come and I do not want to see British children already | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
waiting for foster homes pushed to the back of the queue. Moreover, | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
last night there were 100,000 children in Britain who either slept | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
homeless or were in homeless accommodation. I do not think it is | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
wrong to say that I want British children pushed to the front of the | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
queue. What do you say to Steven Phillips, who says there are a | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
number of kids waiting for foster homes, a number of children | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
effectively homeless because their families are homeless, and that they | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
risk being pushed to the back of the queue as Paul Nuttall said? That is | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
the important thing about consulting with local authorities. It is | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
important that those children are not pushed to the back of the queue, | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
that what the government does is to consult with local authorities to | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
see what capacity they have. And I am afraid I disagree with Paul that | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
this is some sort of cool factor. The evidence that unaccompanied | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
children will leave their homes and make their way to Europe because | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
Britain is going to take some of these kids is nonexistent. -- this | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
is some sort of cool factor. It is no example at all. Like the children | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
I met yesterday, who is here without parents looking after her sister. It | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
is no answer to those kids to say that we are not going to do | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
anything. But if this government consults the local authorities and | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
combined they say we have room for 3000 in various ways surely the next | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
question is, well why are you not making room for the 3000 already on | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
the list needing foster homes? Well, that is really a question for the | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
local authorities. But isn't that a decent question? It is a decent | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
question and it is a question that the government will have to put a | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
local authorities when it writes to them next week or this week to | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
assess how they can help. The other thing I want to see is some of our | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
massive aid budget used to help bring these children not only from | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
the camps in the region, but to help the children already in Europe on | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
their own, called, frightened, alone and hungry too often, and very | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
vulnerable to people traffickers. I want to see some of that money used | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
to fund local authorities to help those kids. And is it not the case, | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
Paul Nuttall, that what ever conditions many of our children are | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
already in, in this country, children born in this country, | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
whatever bad conditions they are in, and some are in bad conditions, no | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
doubt about that, but they are not as bad, they cannot be as bad as the | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
plight of some of these unaccompanied refugee kids? You are | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
quite right. And many of these refugees are coming from war-torn | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
areas. But let me pick up one point. It was said that maybe it was a | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
children shifting west because of the result of the doors opening to | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
child traffickers. It wouldn't be, it would be the traffickers who | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
pluck them from their communities and then extract money from the | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
wider family. That is my fear, that what we will be doing is encouraging | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
trafficking. It is a fair point but you are shaking your head. Paul | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
needs to go and talk to some of these children in Athens or Rome or | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
the camps in Calais and Dunkirk. They have often been separated from | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
their families because during the long passage to Europe they are | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
making different journeys. Traffickers will only have the | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
ability... They are given to an uncle or something and they | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
accompany the uncle while the parents stay behind. Some of these | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
kids have lost their parents. Whose hands are they now in? Are they in | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
camps? Some of them are in camps. Those are the ones we know about. Of | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
the 90,000 figure, that is an estimate, and a lot of those are | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
unregistered and we do not know about them. Are they in the hands of | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
or are they vulnerable to people traffickers? Yes. Some of them go | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
missing. I visited a shelter where children frequently go missing | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
yesterday. There was a report yesterday saying that 10,000 of | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
those have simply gone missing. Returning to the point that Paul | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
Nuttall was making, how will we not know that it will be the people | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
traffickers who identify the kids that will come here? The answer is | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
that we do not know. There is no evidence that unaccompanied children | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
find themselves in Europe because we or anybody else is prepared to offer | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
than century. That was not my question. -- offer them sanctuary. | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
My question was, if these children are currently vulnerable, and some | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
of them are disappearing, and we say we are going to take between 1000 | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
and 3000, is there a danger that people traffickers will go around | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
and say, we can get you to Britain, officially to Britain but how much | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
money have you got or how much money have your relatives got, and they do | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
the picking. These kids generally do not have a lot of money, and they | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
are not able to pay the traffickers. So there is a practical problem for | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
those who would seek to exploit them in this way. What do you make of | :15:58. | :15:59. | |
this, the Marshall? They won't be watching this. It goes | :16:00. | :16:10. | |
back down the line of, well, Britain has made a decision. It gets mixed | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
up down the line, they think, they will take 3000 children, I will push | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
my 14-year-old forward here. When the introduction was made, use of | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
March the 20th, because that was the EU Turkey deal. -- you said. The | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
Prime Minister is trying to block the Paul factor. We will deal with | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
the people in the EU countries, the children, now, but that message also | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
needs to go back down the line. -- pull factor. But I'm not sure the | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
clarity of that message will reach all the way to the Syrian camps. One | :16:47. | :17:00. | |
final question. References and comparisons are sometimes made | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
between getting the Jewish kids out of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. But | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
surely there is one major difference. Even by then we knew if | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
these kids stayed in Nazi Germany they could end up in concentration | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
camps and perhaps even at some stage extermination camps. The children we | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
are talking about and living, are in liberal Western democracies. Two | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
points. I don't think when the decision was made to go ahead with | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
the candid transports was the fate awaiting them. We didn't know about | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
the extermination camps but we knew that German Jews were being rounded | :17:39. | :17:48. | |
up. -- kinder transports. We knew later that the Jewish population in | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
Germany and German occupied Europe was under threat. That's one reason | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
why the kinder transport, no doubt, went ahead. But they are relatively | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
safe, they are in civil democracies. But they are not, it isn't that a | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
problem for Paris, Berlin, and Athens? The reason they are not | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
safe, which I saw in Greece and Italy and to a less extent in | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
France, is that the system in place to deal with the refugees and the | :18:17. | :18:28. | |
children is overwhelmed by the people coming. We will now pick up | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
on the deal being made with Turkey, that is to return migrants making | :18:36. | :18:36. | |
their journey from there to Greece. It seems to have stemmed | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
the flow of people In return for their co-operation | :18:43. | :18:44. | |
Turkey has been promised visa free travel to the EU's Schengen zone | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
for their 77 million citizens. Yesterday the European Commission | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
gave its conditional backing to the deal - | :18:52. | :18:52. | |
which some see as a stepping stone David Cameron was asked | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
about the prospects for Turkish Frankly, I don't think the accession | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
of Turkey to the European Union I don't think it will | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
happen for decades. If you look at the facts, | :19:06. | :19:14. | |
the facts are it requires unanimity The French, for instance, | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
have said they would So I would say very clearly | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
to people, if your vote in this referendum is being influenced | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
by considerations about Turkish membership of the EU, | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
don't think about it. It's not an issue | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
in this referendum. A change of stance from the last | :19:29. | :19:44. | |
time he was Arc -- he was asked about it. | :19:45. | :19:45. | |
We're joined now by the Lib Dem Peer, Merel Ece and UKIP's | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
Paul Nuttall is still with us from Stoke. | :19:49. | :19:50. | |
Paul, what is your view on this? I think we are rewarding Turkey for | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
bad behaviour in the past. They've pretty much done nothing about | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
people traffickers. If you look at the things President at a gun has | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
been doing in recent years in terms of shutting down freedom of speech, | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
newspapers, opposition TV channels, looking at journalists, these are | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
the people we are making this deal with. -- president Erdogan. If we do | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
this in effect Turkey has already got one that matter within the EU. | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
Then the EU border goes all the way to Syria, Iraq, Iran. And when we | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
are being told by the head of Europol there are already 5000 | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
jihadis in Europe wanting to do us harm, I think this will make Europe | :20:41. | :20:48. | |
a less safe place a -- if we reward Turkey. But are you expecting Turkey | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
to do something for nothing here after all the work they have done to | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
stem the flow of migrants coming over? The fact we will be giving | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
money to Turkey over the next few years the doing this deal is pretty | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
good for Turkey. Is it pretty good for us? They are opening the next | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
chapter towards Turkey's accession to the EU. Turkey has no place | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
within the EU. Even if Turkey doesn't join to the next five or ten | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
years, if we vote to stay, it shows you the direction in which the EU is | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
travelling. That is towards Turkish access on. Only 3% of Turkey is | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
actually in Europe. It will be the poorest country in Europe. When it | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
joined it is estimated that within the first decade 15 million Turks | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
will drift west onto the European continent. Therefore I think that is | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
a dangerous prospect. Although, of course, the PM said, in his view, | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
that Turkey would not be joining for decades. Let's pick up on what Paul | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
said about Turkey, that we are rewarding Turkey, a country that | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
does not deserve it because of allegations of corruption and | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
controlling the press. Basically a regime we should not be doing a deal | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
with, what is your view? I have concerns about the deal. The choice | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
of words is interesting, rewarding... Let's not forget, | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
Turkey has the largest number of Syrian refugees in the world, 3 | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
million, which has destabilise the country in many ways and put strain | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
on it. Paul talks about a Haddins and terrorists, well, Turkey has had | :22:29. | :22:29. | |
to deal with that. -- about Jack -- about jihadis. Well, there have | :22:30. | :22:44. | |
been many attacks on the capital and other places, as well. They have | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
already said that it has cost them more than $10 billion of their own | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
money that they have spent. And Turkey is a fairly affluent and | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
economically strong country. It is a dynamic country. The idea that Paul | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
Nuttall is saying this is somehow a reward, it is a deal. I have | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
concerns about the deal in terms of Turkey's ability to deal with the | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
refugees it will be containing. And those that will be sent back. | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
Because only a small percentage of those are in camps. The rest of free | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
to move around the country. Some are given vouchers. They are in rented | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
accommodation. Some are working, some are sleeping rough, some are | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
begging on the streets. Is this EU Turkey deal sustainable? It seems to | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
be working in the broader sense that there are refugees getting back into | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
Turkey who failed with their asylum. And I presume the refugees are | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
legitimately coming into the EU. But will it work in the long term? It is | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
a stopgap. They have flailed around looking for work. It has partially | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
worked. It hasn't stopped, it has simply reduced. That deal is agreed, | :23:57. | :24:04. | |
but this Visa deal is not yet agreed. There is a lot of stumbling | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
blocks in the way. Because the European Parliament has to agree. | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
They haven't done all of the deals. Including giving working visas to | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
Syrians in Turkey. I think they have kicked it into the medium length | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
grass. They were not going to make a decision before the referendum. We | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
will know for sure after that. Do you think it might not happen? | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
Possibly it might not because they're stumbling blocks. Their only | :24:33. | :24:42. | |
7 million passport holders. -- there are stumbling blocks. You will not | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
see an immediate flood if the deal goes through, but you will see an | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
increase in numbers. If we look at the numbers now, yes, 77.6 million | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
Turks, but 7 million passport holders. The biometric testing | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
probably isn't going to happen or be completed until the end of the year. | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
We are talking about a slow process. That is when it has been ratified by | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
the European Parliament and no doubt the individual member states. I | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
leave the biggest British delegation in the European Parliament and we | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
will vote against this deal. Whether we are successful I doubt it and it | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
probably will go through. You say that Turkey is bearing the brunt of | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
terrorism in Syria, actually, Turkey is promoting terrorism in Syria, | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
covertly or averted. It has been alleged that they have been helping | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
the Islamic State. -- or overtly. They were standing by when the Kurds | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
were routed only a few years ago. We should be stepping away from Turkey, | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
not promoting them to join the EU, we shouldn't be helping them. Are | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
you happy to work with Turkey in terms of dealing with the migrant | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
issue as it stands, for people to take 3 million Syrian refugees, are | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
you saying you want to scrap that? Turkey has basically encouraged what | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
has gone on. That isn't my question. Would you be prepared to say to | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
Turkey, have an open border, and those refugees can come across? | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
Sometimes in politics you have to make deals. I just believe that this | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
deal, which includes a Visa free access and opening the next chapter | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
to Turkish access and into the EU simply goes too far. -- accession | :26:33. | :26:41. | |
into the EU. In 2013 the pro Minister said Turkey deserves top | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
place in European politics and that is what I will fight for. -- the | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
Prime Minister. And yesterday he said that it will not happen for | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
decades, don't think about it around the referendum vote, has he changed | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
his mind? He has. But Britain has always supported Turkey's access | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
into the EU and has always been an official candidate since 1999. Talks | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
were put on track. Turkey has a long way to go. Cameron is right on that. | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
It will not happen tomorrow, or next Tuesday which Paul seems to be | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
indicating, that millions of Turks will be heading this way. That is | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
nonsense. There are hurdles to overcome. There are many sanctions | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
Turkey needs to satisfy. A country like Turkey is firmly anchored in | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
Europe. We should encourage it to reform. There are huge problems with | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
freedom of speech, freedom of expression. These things have to be | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
done. It has gone the other way at the moment. Yes. Quite rapidly. It | :27:45. | :27:53. | |
is. Some years ago when Turkey was going in the right direction that | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
you closed its doors and said go away, no thank you, and it has gone | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
the other way. In order to keep on track I think it is important that | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
those chapters should be opened at some point and Turkey is forced to | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
reform its judiciary and all of its other political systems. But there | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
is no sign of that. It is just whistling in the wind. I agree. | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
Everything is going in the other direction. The biggest newspaper has | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
just been nationalised by the government. The Turkish judiciary, | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
which used to be by the standards of that part of the world quite | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
independent, but that has all gone. And we have a developing story this | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
morning. I know about this. The Turkish Prime Minister is about to | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
resign. I am in dismay. I had many friends -- I have many friends who | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
are politicians and journalists over there and they are dismayed about | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
what is going on. However, if we say to Turkey, push it away further, one | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
of the criticism I have is that this deal is not including, it is not | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
asking Turkey to reform a step back from the teller Terry and is. It | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
would not do that. -- totalitarianism. He was always going | :29:14. | :29:22. | |
to lose. Erdogan Is trying to get power around him in a single | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
structure. The Prime Minister was unsure about it because he is more | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
liberal. They have a battle. He has lost. Erdogan Is still on track to | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
be an ultimate power of Turkey. You are right, it is not part of the | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
refugee deal with the EU, but it is part of entering the U. That is what | :29:44. | :29:52. | |
I meant. -- entering the EU. France is completely against it. We have | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
got to finish that there. Thank you to all of you. | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
Now they said that he had about as much chance of becoming | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
president as Leicester City winning the Premiership. | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
Or Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour leader. | :30:15. | :30:23. | |
And he's not there yet of course - but it's almost certain Donald Trump | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
will be the Republican nominee for President | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
In a moment we'll discuss what that contest might look like - | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
first let's just remind ourselves of how Mr Trump managed | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. | :30:35. | :30:49. | |
They're bringing drugs, they're bringing | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
crime, their rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
We are gonna have our borders nice and strong. | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
I'm gonna build a wall and Mexico's gonna pay for it, right? | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
# I heard trouble's come to your town | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
# I've got a little something guaranteed to ease your mind #. | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
Written by a nice reporter, now the poor guy, you got | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
He's a war hero because he was captured. | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
I like people that weren't captured, OK? | :31:27. | :31:27. | |
Are you ready for a commander-in-chief who will let | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
our warriors do their job and kick Isis's ass? | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
can figure out what the hell is going on. | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
You know what they used to do to guys | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
like that when they were in a place like this? | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
You will be so proud of this country very, very soon. | :32:02. | :32:14. | |
We're joined now by the US talk show host and former republican advisor, | :32:15. | :32:24. | |
Charlie Woolf, and the Conservative MP and Hillary Clinton | :32:25. | :32:26. | |
Are in also. I have just promoted you. We're working on the | :32:27. | :32:41. | |
assumption, it seems to me a fairly bankable assumption, that it is | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
Trump versus Clinton for the general election in November. But how does | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
Mr Trump make up lost ground at the moment? Hillary Clinton has a 25 | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
point lead among women voters at the moment. Among non-white voters, she | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
has a 67% lead. How do you overcome that? I think there is a lot of work | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
to be done but remember when you get into a general election, the | :33:11. | :33:12. | |
candidate gets a better introduction. And also I think there | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
was a lot of dislike for Hillary as well. Hillary is not a strong | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
candidate. Look at the fact that Trump has taken on 16 seasoned | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
opponents and knock them down one by one. And here is Hillary, who was | :33:27. | :33:34. | |
supposed to be the successor to the throne, battling it out against a | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
74-year-old socialist. Simon Burns, we know that when you get away from | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
the Republican primary process, Mr Trump's ratings are very poor, with | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
the electorate as a whole so far. But Hillary Clinton's ratings are | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
not that great either. Indeed she has the worst negative ratings of | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
any democratic frontrunner since the 1960s. But what she has going for | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
her which people recognise, is experience, confidence and a | :34:04. | :34:11. | |
lifetime commitment to record vote. -- experience, competent. | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos. And she has proven her | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
track record. There have been 58 opinion polls in this cycle, where | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
it was Clinton versus Trump. And as you said in your introduction, she | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
is miles ahead, even yesterday, with the latest poll that came out, she | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
was 13 points ahead. That is true, but here is the issue. Everything | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
you have said makes the establishment candidate. It makes | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
the candidate of the status quo. And you cannot get more establishment | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
than that. In an America where antiestablishment, on the left and | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
right, is running rampage, how does she overcome that? By appealing to | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
the vote. She, more than Bernie Sanders, is the air to Barack Obama. | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
Barack Obama is more popular than he was a year ago, and if you look at | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
the democratics in the United States, it is moving towards the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
Democratic party. Telefonica, the large estate with the most Electoral | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
College votes, it is no more than 50% non-white voters. Texas, in 20 | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
years, I expect it will be a Democrat, not a Republican state. | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
And because those people will come out in a determined way, like they | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
did for Barack Obama, to protect his legacy, and because of what Hillary | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
has two offer, she will... What do you say to that? They want. They are | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
not getting the millennials. The millennials will not come out for | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
history. You mean that Hispanic millennials will stay home? And | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
Amanda says he will build a wall with Mexico, they will stay home? In | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
a lot of the exit polling, Latinos, he won that group. Among Republican | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
voters. And there are not that many Republican Hispanics. We are talking | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
about Hillary is serving this audience. The audience has moved on. | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
If you look at feminism, hers is a sort of dinosaur version of | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
feminism. We have Madeline Albright doing the thing, there is a place in | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
hell for a woman that does not support another woman. That is | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
yesterday's news. You have conceded that he has ground to make up, but | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
it does not mean he cannot do it. But here is the issue, the Clinton | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
campaign will be stocked full of cash. It will be incredibly well | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
financed. So far Donald Trump has spent ?36 million of his own money. | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
-- 30 $6 million. Either in grants or loans to his campaign, and he has | :36:46. | :36:55. | |
raised $12 million. In British terms, that is tuppence. How does he | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
raise the money, when even the Cork brothers have said that they will | :37:01. | :37:10. | |
probably rather have Mrs Clinton? -- Coch brothers. This is a man who | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
raises cash for a living. I think things will change. Actually, he | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
borrows cash for a living. That is how he built his property empire. I | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
will concede that is his biggest obstacle, getting the money and the | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
machinery. But remember, this is a movement that he has created, and | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
that is very strong. And this is taking off like wildfire. We have | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
yet to see that but it is certainly true in the Republican primaries. | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
Commentators like me should be careful what we see weight say | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
because we have called a lot of this -- careful what we say because we | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
have called a lot of these things wrong in the past. You wear that the | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
two living Republican former presidents are likely not to endorse | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
him? But then again, George Dubya Bush did not get involved in the | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
last election either. They are staying out of it. But it does not | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
help when it comes to raising money. And your candidate is going to be | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
bankrolled by Wall Street. But I suspect that this year, despite the | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
surprises so far, it is going to be like 1972 for the Democrats with the | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
governed, and 1964 for Goldwater. You can always see -- you can | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
already see with the Cork brothers and others, there are congressmen up | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
for re-election. -- the Koch brothers. They do not want to be | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
dragged down by Trump and many of them will distance themselves from | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
supporting Trump in the hope that they will save their own heights. | :38:42. | :38:49. | |
You saying that it is to be as bad for the Republicans as with the | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
governing? I am saying that the Republican hierarchy are those who | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
are standing for office and think that they have tight races, they | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
will distance themselves from the party nominee because he is going to | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
be a drag on the ticket, all the way down. That is an interesting point, | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
Charles, because I have seen over the past two months three sets of | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
major Republican strategists, seniors, who have fought and won at | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
the core of every presidential campaign for 40 years and all of | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
them said that if Trump leads the ticket, they will almost certainly | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
lose the Senate and they might even lose the house. I think things have | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
changed now that he is leading the party. He will have to verify it. | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
The question I would put the these different senators and voters who | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
say they will not vote for him is why would you vote for Hillary | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
Clinton, who is going to change the Supreme Court, and could damage the | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
second Amendment? I would say to Trump... She can only change the | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
Supreme Court if she has a majority in the two and she might have that. | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
If you really want to risk that, for me, that is lunacy. Trump is not my | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
first choice. Who was? I was probably looking at Rubio initially. | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
But that ship sailed along time ago. He has probably reached his | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
domination. Is he prone Nato? Can we count on him for our defence? He has | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
not said anything like that. He is not talking to us, isn't it? David | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
Cameron fended them. He has not spoken to the outside world. -- | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
offended him. He gives to say there were no votes in Britain, so they do | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
not care about us. I understand that but every candidate has a policy and | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
it is clear that Hillary Clinton, she will probably be even more prone | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
Nato than Mr Obama. We have spent five minutes talking about things we | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
always talk about, but he is talking about something else. These are new | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
times, different times. The European audience watches this buffoon, and | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
the things that come out of his mouth, and they hear it with a | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
European elite here. You have to put yourself in the years of | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
steelworkers in Pittsburgh, and realise that he is talking about | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
protectionism, putting tariffs on. People in Pittsburgh who are worried | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
about steel jobs, they are not hearing an orange buffoon, they are | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
thinking, yeah. I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs, but the | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
single most important thing Ronald Reagan ever did that was -- did to | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
get elected was having an advert that ended with, it is summarised in | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
America. He punches through and this guy punches through. The phrase was | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
morning in America. But we have run out of time. You have a great memory | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
for the adverts of Ronald Reagan! I need to get out more. I am just | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
disappointed that will not be a contested election. The amount of | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
work I have done to cover that. Save it for next time. Next to both of | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
you. Now the Americans have they are | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
Super Tuesday and we have our super Thursday. In America they talk of | :42:13. | :42:13. | |
little else. Voters in every part of the UK | :42:14. | :42:15. | |
are going to the polls today. Here's Adam's guide to keeping up | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
with all the results. Make sure you are back from the pub | :42:19. | :42:26. | |
by 11:45pm because that is when the BBC One election programme starts. | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
And we are in for a crazy three days of results. By 3am, we will be in | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
full flow with declarations from many of the seeds of the Scottish | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
Parliament and the Welsh Assembly. Around eight -ish English councils | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
are tempting overnight. -- around 80 English councils are tempting | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
overnight. By mid-morning, more English councils will be declaring. | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
And will be some results from Police And Crime Commissioner is in England | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
and Wales. Crack open your favourite beverage at about five on Friday | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
when we will have information about the votes in Northern Ireland. Might | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
news from City Hall about the London assembly and the blockbuster contest | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
to become the mayor. But don't bet on it. Last time we hung around for | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
hours thanks to a power cut. On Saturday morning, I will be heading | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
out for a run, I promise. In the afternoon, we will get the last few | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
English council results and later on, the results for mayor of | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
Bristol. On Sunday morning it will be time to tune in to your favourite | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
political programmes. But there is still the results to go -- but there | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
are still if you results to go. The final tally for the Northern Ireland | :43:35. | :43:42. | |
tally, and the last count for Bristol. Apparently someone called | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
Robert Preston has a new show on another channel. A shame I can't | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
find the remote. And if you missed any | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
of that, don't worry! We have created our very own handy | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
cut-out-and-keep guide to the election results | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
which will be coming Just to go to our twitter feed | :44:00. | :44:01. | |
or the programme website. In Syria, a temporary | :44:02. | :44:11. | |
ceasefire has been extended A nationwide "cessation | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
of hostilities" was in theory agreed in February but, | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
since then, the violence It's hoped that interested parties | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
will return to Geneva later this month to try and thrash out some | :44:19. | :44:27. | |
sort of lasting settlement. Joining me now is Crispin Blunt, | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
Chairman of the Foreign and Muzna al-Naib from | :44:32. | :44:33. | |
the anti-Assad pressure group Welcome to both of you. Do you think | :44:34. | :44:46. | |
the ceasefire is going to hold? I don't know. The signs are not great. | :44:47. | :44:55. | |
There are reports of barrel bombs today outside of Aleppo. But we have | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
to put the maximum pressure on through the Russians, to make sure | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
that it does hold. There is no alternative here. This has to end | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
with politics. And that means looking at the French proposals to | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
try to bring together the anti-Assad coalition, that needs to be looked | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
at so that they do not fall apart and start fighting each other. There | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
have been reports of vicious biting fighting between those groups. -- | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
reports of vicious fighting between those groups. We need to engage with | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
the Russians, the key decision-makers here. They have a | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
decision about how much they are prepared to engage. If they | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
overcommit to resident Assad, they will be in there for a long time. | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
With a scale of commitment that I do not think they want. So they need a | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
deal as much as the rest of us. We will talk about the Russians and how | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
much influence they had two have on the regime but returning to Aleppo, | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
let's talk about the images and pictures, which have been horrendous | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
throughout this conflict. In terms of holding that ceasefire, even | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
though it is very short, there are stories that the regime is still | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
using the fact that they can attack the al-Nusra front, or Islamic | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
State, and actually the violence has not ceased in the way it should have | :46:15. | :46:15. | |
done. Just leaving the ceasefire to | :46:16. | :46:27. | |
President Assad and Russia is a mistake. Opposition groups have been | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
saying for a long time no ceasefire no political solution is going to | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
work without the protection of civilians. If you don't force them | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
to protect the civilians they will not. You are talking to people who | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
are expert in playing games and in killing people. Isn't that the | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
problem that while President Assad is still in play, and while the | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
Russians are the critical players here, there isn't going to be a | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
proper cessation of violence. More civilians will be killed. In a way | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
you were putting pressure on perhaps the only people you can, but not | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
right ones. The Russians have the capacity to put the pressure on | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
President Assad. Do they still have that influence on him? If the | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
Russians decide to depart then he is backing the trouble he was back in | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
last September with his regime teetering on the brink of collapse. | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
That is what brought the Russians and the Iranians in in a way they | :47:23. | :47:30. | |
hadn't been in that conflict before. There has to be a negotiated way out | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
of this. We got quite close to this in November. A mechanism was set up | :47:35. | :47:43. | |
by which there was a route to an end of this. That route actually still | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
exists. Do you agree with that? No, it is not a question about capacity, | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
it is a question of them not being willing to do that. They are being | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
allowed to get away with it. It isn't a question of negotiation. The | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
people on the ground want to negotiate. Even though they are | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
negotiating with killers. The main issue is the killers are not | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
stopping their killing. We are not negotiating and our children are | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
being killed. We want a guarantee from our family from around the | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
world that they will protect us. We are not going to offer ourselves to | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
be killed. We are not going to offer our children to be killed. This is | :48:27. | :48:37. | |
just going over everything that is logical in Syria and simply playing | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
the Russian game. But what does that mean? Because President Assad needs | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
to be moved. He cannot stay in place if there is to be any lasting | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
settlement. As Britain and the US and other Western powers are not | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
willing to commit with the Russians and Iranians around President Assad. | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
That is the reality. How do you protect the civilians? We need to | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
identify our common interests with the Russians who have the capacity | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
to put pressure on President Assad's government. There are common | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
interests. The fight against IS is a common interest. It is a common | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
interest with the non-Islamist resistance in Syria, as it is with | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
all of the people who have turned to President Assad for protection. Is | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
that a common goal that you share, the destruction of the so-called | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
Islamic State? No, because President Assad is coordinating with Isis and | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
we have documents to prove that. And Russia is back in President Assad. | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
How will that work? You are backing the person working with Isis, how | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
will that stop Isis? Don't look at this from what is good for Syria is, | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
have a look at what is good for the British people in defeating Isis. Is | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
backing President Assad going to stop Isis in any way? No, if you | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
want to stop then you have to protect those fighting both Isis and | :50:09. | :50:16. | |
President Assad. -- if you want to stop them. For people like her | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
President Assad is the problem. Yes happened as a result of the | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
brutality. -- of -- Islamic State happened as a | :50:28. | :50:37. | |
result of the brutality. There is a ceasefire in Aleppo, less violence, | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
but people are still being killed. I gave evidence on the subject | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
yesterday. I argued that you have to talk to the Russians. Because they | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
have made themselves a player in this. It is pointless not engaging | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
with them. The rights and wrongs of it have to be sorted out. The second | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
thing I was arguing for was made monetarily in front. -- was for the | :51:01. | :51:15. | |
military front. Anthony Lloyd of the Times was next to me in the | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
committee. He said something I hadn't thought of, the said you have | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
to negotiate with the Russians to get humanitarian aid in. But even | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
people on the ground might shoot at it because they are so angry with us | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
for abandoning them. Are the Russians minded to put pressure on | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
President Assad soon to step down? How much longer? When it suits them. | :51:38. | :51:44. | |
They have already safeguarded their interest, the port in the region. It | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
cannot win but it cannot lose. At some point they will settle. We've | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
been here before. At some point they will settle but it will become | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
placated. The last thing that must be put on the agenda is the arming | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
of the Kurds. We've given them machine guns. We cannot get | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
ammunition to them because it goes through Baghdad. We are not really | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
supporting the Kurds and they are the boots on the ground everybody | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
talks about. Thank you both very much. | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
It has just been confirmed that the Turkish Foreign Minister will be | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
stepping down at his party's conference. That will have | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
ramifications for everybody, including the European Union. | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
Now to the vote that's dominating thoughts in Europe. | :52:29. | :52:30. | |
but Eurovision, which is now just nine days away. | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
And is already beset by controversy, after organisers decided | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
They have linked it to those of ISIS, the Crimea | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
and the Basque Country as states not recognised by the United Nations. | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
Bad enough - especially when you consider one of the duo | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
singing for Britain this year is Welsh. | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
But first, let's take you back to happier times, | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
when Bonnie Tyler was belting out Believe in Me in 2013. | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
See if you can spot the Welsh flag in the audience! | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
# In the dark of the night, in the middle of the fight | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
# When you're reaching out for something and there's nothing | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
# Yeah, believe in the way I look at you | :53:09. | :53:20. | |
# The way I speak the truth I'd never lie to you | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
# If you'd just believe in the things your eyes can see | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
We asked for a representative from Eurovision to come on but they | :53:28. | :53:41. | |
declined. They told us they aimed to keep your vision free from political | :53:42. | :53:50. | |
statement and only allowed National flags and rainbow flags. | :53:51. | :54:01. | |
French was our representatives in 2000. How did feel about having the | :54:02. | :54:14. | |
Welsh flag banned? It is a real downer. | :54:15. | :54:14. | |
CHUCKLES I thought you might say that. We | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
rarely achieved the big-time in Wales. And here we are, representing | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
the UK, and they are lumping us in with Isis, Northern Cyprus, | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
Palestine, and other politically sensitive areas. What is interesting | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
is they are allowing the EU flag. Given what is going on in this | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
country at the moment, is there anything more political than the | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
youth flag? This is a personal slight to the people of Wales, isn't | :54:44. | :54:51. | |
it? It is a snub to the people of Wales. Nicki French, how important | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
is it to see your country's flag-waving when you are performing? | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
I still remember the day of the contest. It is being held in the | :55:02. | :55:13. | |
same place where I performed. The global arena is in the same place as | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
your Hotel. It is all the same complex. As soon as people start | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
waving flags, and suddenly when I saw the union Jack it very special. | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
You and your countrymen and women will not have that facility, what | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
will you do instead? This will be the first occasion that I will | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
actually watch the Eurovision Song contest. | :55:43. | :55:43. | |
CHUCKLES And I will be waving my red Dragon, | :55:44. | :55:50. | |
as will everybody else across Wales. What about the guys performing? | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
There are loads of flags in that audience nowadays. There have been | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
problems with flags over the years. In 2000 the Israelis wanted to wave | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
a Syrian flag at the end of their performance. That all came to blows. | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
CHUCKLES The Israeli delegation almost | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
boycotted them because they did not want it happening. In the end they | :56:14. | :56:22. | |
compromised. It does not fit the criteria, the Welsh flag, from what | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
I understand, but it is not officially banned. The result is the | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
same, I think, even if the semantics are slightly different. Your next | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
book is about flags, Tim, it is a sensitive issue, politically, isn't | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
it? My next book is called Worth Dying For because people think it | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
is. And's introduction talked about the Welsh flag and Isis flag and | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
made no mention of the Scottish Saltire. But it isn't in the Song | :56:56. | :57:04. | |
contest. Neither is Wales. The red Dragon is our national flag and it | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
should be there. But they are not singing for Wales. It should be | :57:11. | :57:18. | |
represented. Moving on. Somebody will try and smuggle in an offensive | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
flag now the story is out there. I have the rules. Confiscated flags | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
and banners will not be returned, so don't turn up with one because you | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
will not get it back. Anyone bringing in an offensive flag, not | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
my criteria, may be removed. So there could be more controversy at | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
the Song contest. What will you do to remedy this? I have already | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
tabled a question to John Whittingdale, so I am looking | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
forward to a reply. CHUCKLES | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
He should take an interest. This is one of our national flags. I think | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
it is quite disgraceful that it is not being recognised by the European | :57:59. | :58:07. | |
broadcasters. We have to leave it now. I will be watching, Andrew, | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
will you be watching? Are you mad? | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
LAUGHTER Thanks to all of our guests. The one | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
o'clock news will be starting over on BBC One now. | :58:21. | :58:36. | |
Daily Politics will not be on tomorrow. I shall be returning on | :58:37. | :58:43. | |
Sunday on BBC One. Hopefully we can give you a more considered, rounded | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
picture, with all of the results in. I hope you can join all of us for | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
the BBC coverage. Goodbye. | :58:53. | :58:55. |