15/06/2016 Daily Politics


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George Osborne says he'll be forced to break his own manifesto promises


if Britain votes to leave the EU next week, raising taxes


But has the threat of a punishment budget backfired?


The Chancellor's warning of further cuts and tax rises to come has


sparked a major backlash among many Conservative MPs backing Leave,


who say Project Fear has gone into hyperspace.


Will those Conservatives show their frustrations at the final


Prime Minister's Questions before the referendum, and how


will Jeremy Corbyn respond to the threat of more austerity?


We'll bring you all the action from the Commons live at midday.


Philip Green has told a Commons committee he's sorry


for the demise of BHS - but has the billionaire businessman


done enough to convince sceptical MPs?


And is Nigel Farage all at sea as he leads a flotilla of fishing


boats up the Thames to Westminster in protest at EU fishing quotas?


A nice day for sailing up the Thames! We could have done the


programme from the back of the vote! Ann wrote


of the programme today, two MPs who know a thing or two


about drifting rudderless through choppy political waters -


it's the Conservative minister, backing Remain, Ed Vaizey,


and the Labour MP, backing Leave, John Mann.


The referendum campaign feels tense, fraught, and perhaps


Spooked by a tightening of the opinion polls,


the Remain camp are hammering home their message on the economic


impact of a vote to leave the EU with the promise of


a gloomy emergency budget to follow soon after.


It's gone down like a cup of cold sick among


Leave, meanwhile, are still desperate to show they've got a plan


for what the UK would look like after exiting the EU,


even if they're not in the position to make promises, given they're


So both sides today are claiming to have a pretty accurate vision


of how events could unfold after the vote next Thursday -


The Leave campaign has published a Queen's Speech-style "road map"


to show how the UK could split from the EU by 2020.


They claim new laws could be introduced to end the automatic


right of all citizens to enter the UK


And they predict a new EU-UK trade deal outside the single market


They also say new laws could be introduced to


cut VAT on energy bills and divert more funds to the NHS.


so that the mysticism from the leave side but what are Remain seeing in


the crystal ball? Chancellor George Osborne warns this


morning his first priority after a Leave vote will be


a new "Brexit budget". He's been joined by former


Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling to say it would mean tax


rises and spending cuts, to plug the ?30 billion black hole


in the public finances that he says The Chancellors foresee there'd


need to be a 2p rise And even protected budgets


like the NHS, schools and defence But those warnings haven't gone down


well with a growing number of Conservative MPs,


who've signed a letter this morning saying


they find it "incredible" the Chancellor is threatening


to renege on his manifesto promises, and promising to vote


down any such budget. This is what George Osborne had


to say in the last 20 minutes. We're sharing a platform and arguing


the same case for the first time. It is quite simple. We have both been


Chancellor as the economy has faced very difficult times. We know what


happens when you lose control of the economy. We've both had to deal with


the consequences of the public finances collapsing and the


difficult decisions that the country then has to take. And today we're


here together because we agree on this - a vote to be the EU would do


it to us all over again. That is the Chancellor George Osborne. Lets


Victor one of the MPs who has not been overly impressed by Mr


Osborne's warning. He is Jacob Rees-Mogg and he is in the central


lobby of the House of commons. What is wrong with having an emergency


budget? If there is a vote to leave, there will be big decisions to take.


The Chancellor basically means to tick down and, regrettably, stop


talking nonsense. If we vote to leave on Thursday week, there is a


minimum two-year period in which we are still a member of the European


Union. Article 50 takes time to be exercised so what he is doing in


this hysterical suggestion of an emergency budget is ignoring the


treaty provisions for an orderly departure of a member state. He


really ought to read the treaty is more carefully and particularly an


excellent report by the House of Lords European committee, which sets


out how article 50 would work and underpins that the purpose of


article 50 is to avoid an economic dislocation, both for the leaving


state and, even more importantly from their point of view, from the


point of view of other member states of the EU. But many on your site,


for Leave, have stated that there could be a short-term shock. There


could be instability and George Osborne is only saying that the


Government would respond in the end of the Bob vote, which he and other


economic institutions have predicted would lead to some sort of economic


meltdown. The economic meltdown idea is a far-fetched one but what most


of the commentators have said is that there may be some instability


in currency markets but there is always instability in currency


markets. This is par for the course in the financial system. No body


would know the economic effects within a week or two of a vote to


leave so an emergency budget is really indicating a degree of panic.


It is a very silly thing to say, quite honestly, and for the


Chancellor to jettison Conservative principles in favour of his euro for


the seems to me desperate Leon Weiss. There was an emergency budget


in 2010 to deal with the financial crisis so it isn't as if you have


had emergency budgets before. In 2010 there was a new government that


felt the different economic policy should be followed. That was the


reason for the budget, same reason as a 1979, and in 1997, Gordon Brown


had a budget when he came into office. When the governments change,


the resort was a budget because economic policy changes. That's not


an emergency, that's a matter of routine. So in terms of you and


others signing to say that you would vote down that sort of budget, you


are going to vote against your own government on something as critical


as a budget? It is not my government, it is Her Majesty's but


I am going to stick to the manifesto that I stood on which said that we


would not raise tax. The economy is not going to react in the way he is


saying. The forecasts are based on assumptions that no rational person


would follow and the Treasury assumptions are ones that he's given


away to an independent body, until he decided he needed to arrange the


figures to suit his political argument. But you are prepared to


basically vote down the budget are Conservative Government? I would


vote against a budget that broke the Conservative Party's manifesto and a


budget introduced out of spite to punish the British voters for not


obeying the wisdom of George Osborne. It is the height of


arrogance the week before a vote to say, if you don't do as I say and


going to punish you. I think it is very damaging to George Osborne's


credible as he is Chancellor. Do you think George Osborne should remain


as Chancellor if the UK votes to leave the EU? It won't be a matter


for me to dock but what do you think? Let's wait until we have the


voted dock you been quite unspoken. He has done a lot of damage to his


credible as it and will have a hard chance to repair it.


Ed Vaizey, this is Mr Osborne's punishment budget if we vote to


leave, and it is crashed and burned on take off. I donated the


punishment budget. I think George Osborne is making a very important


point, which is a point we have to get across, that we know there will


be an economic shock if we weave the EU. Every credible analysis of the


economy says there will be a significant impact on our economy.


This is very serious stuff. How big would the Treasury save impact would


be? George's budget proposal sets out the kind of changes you would


have to see to fill that hole. How big does the Treasury say the impact


would be in its short-term report? What was it central forecast? What


the Institute of fiscal... I'm asking you about the Treasury


because that is your Government's department. I am asking you about


apples, you answer about oranges. What was the central forecast for


recession in the Treasury's short-term report? What I'm telling


you is that this budget George Osborne is setting up with Alistair


Darling is based on the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimate, which


was a ?20 billion to ?40 billion impact on the public finances and


George is quite right to take the mid-range, 30 billion to dock there


is to be a mid-range impact on the public finances. It would mean


increased taxes and it would mean having to cut spending. The Treasury


said it would go down by 0.4% over a year. Nobody wanted to go down,


obviously, but why does a shallow recession, the shallowest since


1956, of zero .4%, result in this massive measurement and tax rises


and spending cuts amounting to ?30 billion? Explain that. You are using


this word punishment. What George Osborne and Alistair Darling do,


united together, the first time they have spoken together as one on a


public platform, is to say there will be an impact on the public


finances and when the Chancellor sees the impact on the public


finances, he or she has to act and they have to make tough decisions


and those tough decisions will include raising taxes or cutting


spending. I was trying to work out why this response would be required,


given how shallow the Treasury said the recession would be. In terms of


the impact, you've seen Rolls-Royce today talking about the potential


impact on one of our most successful Manufacturing completes. We've seen


BT yesterday telling its 80,000 boys the kind of impact it would have.


The real point is, you can bring up different surveys and say, what


about this, what about that? The two key points are, everybody knows


there will be an economic shock and George Osborne is saying, the second


key point, is that means there will have to be an emergency budget, we


will have to address levels of spending levels of taxes to get the


budget by contract. How would you get that emergency budget through?


There isn't a majority in the Commons for it. I haven't seen the


names on the letter. 57 Conservative MPs described Mr Osborne's position


as untenable. There is no majority in parliament for this budget,


therefore the budget wouldn't get through. What George Osborne is


saying is this is the kind of budget that you would have to expect if we


beat. I think it is a perfectly valid thing for a Chancellor,


somebody who has been Chancellor for six years. Unemployment fell again


today. A lot of what George Osborne has done... Address my point. You


only have a majority of under 16, at times it is under 12. 87 Tory MPs


and rising regard this threat as untenable. They will not vote for


it. -- 57. Labour is not going to vote for it, I assume, we will find


out from John Mann. You will not get this budget through. It is an empty


threat. It is not an empty threat. How would you get it through


Parliament? After a Leave vote, if there is, God forbid, a Leave vote,


Parliament would have to reconvene, the Chancellor will have to set out


what he thinks the risks are going to be. He would be Chancellor, will


he? There will have to be a budget proposed by the Chancellor. At that


point, MPs will have to very much decide what their duty is. Is their


duty to help get the economy back contract, given the economic


shock... Could you explain the logic... Or is it simple to say, we


are going to be a roadblock? Could you explain the economic logic, give


me any major economist in the world who would then this was a response,


that if we are heading to recession as a result of leaving, which is the


Chancellor's scenario, we would go into recession, what is the economic


logic is a recession stares us in the face at we raise tax and cut


spending? As I said earlier, the Chancellor is someone who has Stuart


did the public finances for the last six years. We see one of those


results today with 20,000 fall in an employment. We've seen long-term


unemployment fall significantly and that's because he did get the public


finances... But what is the economic logic of raising taxes and cutting


spending as we are heading into recession? He balanced the budget


over the last six years, or at least significantly... Excuse me, he's


balanced the budget? Significantly reduced our deficits because he had


to raise some taxes and he had to cut... He slowed down the spending.


Excuse me, Ed Vaizey. You may be rewriting the future, we won't know


until we reach there, but you can't be allowed to rewrite the past. He


actually slowed down the spending cuts because we were in such a


situation and instead of balancing the budget by 2015, which was his


promise, he gave us an ?80 billion deficit. So I ask again, can you


name any credible economist, because Remain is very keen to quote


mainstream economists, who would think that slashing spending and


increasing tax would be a credible response to a recession? No doubt


economists might pile in after this, as they piled on on this whole issue


of whether we should leave the EU. And when I was last on this


programme, you asked Kate Hoey to name any credible economist who


could say that leaving the EU would be good for our economy. So you are


bringing out Kate Hoey. I am asking you, can you name... I am asking


you, can you name an economist that thinks this would be a... Don't try


and filibuster. You did it earlier and it didn't go down too well. Just


answer this question. Name and economist that thinks that Osborne's


punishment budget would be the correct response.


You know that when George took decisions about cutting spending and


raising taxes, organisations like the IMF told him he was playing with


fire. They came round and said what George Osborne did was correct. Let


me see if I can get an answer to this question dash in a manifesto,


you promised a referendum. He also promised more money for the NHS, you


also promised not to raise VAT or income tax or national insurer and


is. But you never anywhere said in the manifesto, but we can't keep any


of these promises if you vote to leave in the referendum. So it was a


false prospectus, wasn't it? The prospectus was to hold the


referendum, which was a manifesto promise. I have said that. In the


current state of our ability to manage the economy with the state it


is in now with us as a member of the European Union and trading freely


with the market of 500 million, we can do the things we have done. You


never told us that, there is nowhere in the manifesto that all these


major promises are predicated on as a voting, in your view, the right


way on the referendum. There are issues in the manifesto you cannot


foresee. David Cameron had to carry out his successful negotiation. It


was in the manifesto. You promised a referendum. He has secured our


vision for Britain in the European Union. Would anybody in the Remain


vote for a budget like this post the referendum? It is not a proposed


budget, it is a press stunned by George Osborne and rather silly one.


John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor says, Labour would not


vote, Labour would be against it, I would assume. I think we can take it


for granted, the SNP would vote against it. Almost 60 Tory MPs are


rising, would vote against it. It is a nonsense, Ed Vaizey. Sorry, I


thought you are still asking John. How would you get it through? The


Chancellor would come to the Commons after a vote to Leave, God forbid,


people would see the impact on the economy and the Commons would have


to take a view on whether it is important to get the budget back on


track and the national finances back on track given the new and dangerous


situation. John, why was Alistair Darling associating himself with


this this morning? Desperation, last attempt to shore up the vote. I am


hearing, even in Scotland, the vote in many constituencies may be going


for Leave, even in Scotland. That would be a surprise. That is what I


am hearing. Alistair Darling was not representing the Labour Party this


morning, to your understanding? Clearly not, if it was someone


representing the Labour Party, it would have been John McDonnell. So


he was representing Alistair Darling? Yes, and his judgment on


this is wrong. It is desperate politics trying to build up this


project fear even more. It is not working, it is nonsense. It is


almost a classic illustration of what nonsense it is. The Chancellor


this morning on BBC, implied it was a consensus, and he used Alistair


Darling's position that Labour and Conservative said the same thing. I


am asking you, I know you don't want me to, but that is why I am


continuing. I feel it is a bit unbalanced. You are the one that the


questions to answer. He said we have a Labour Chancellor, Conservative


Chancellor and it was a broad view of what we had to do. Now we hear


from the Shadow Chancellor, we wouldn't vote for this. It has


crashed and burned on take-off. He was standing with the Labour


Chancellor in the last Labour government, when Labour used to win


elections, who had to handle an economy in crisis following the


banking crash. Alistair Darling is a credible figure who knows what it is


like when you are facing an economic shock. He says, this is exactly...


This is exactly what I would expect. I don't know what John McDonnell's


position is. We have just been told. There is this peculiar mindset from


Jeremy Corbyn where he won't share a platform


There will be more money spent on the NHS if we leave. There was a


consensus perhaps for the first time. Would be ?100 million over


?350 million that vote the grating as the amount of money that is spent


and sent to Brussels every week? It all depends who is in power and who


makes the decision. What would you do? I would be looking to Spencer


Gifford and sufficient money, which would be under 100 million, on


putting money back into the NHS, getting into the hospital deficits,


recruiting nurses, getting nurses bursaries, and adding moneyback


international health service, would be my priority and if that money


becomes available, that's what I would do. Or you think this is an


alternative manifesto and they shouldn't be putting this board?


Let's look at Labour on immigration because you have put a lot about


immigration. It does look as if Labour is panicking as much as the


Conservatives. We've had Tom Watson, the devil do bid, saying there would


be moves, proposals, to curb the free movement of people. -- Tom


Watson the Deputy Leader. Poor I called for it in the last


Parliament. The problem is, you can't do it because the EU refuses.


On whose authority is he saying it? Go but not the Labour Party because


it is not what Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonell think. You would have


to as Tom Watson. I'm not privy to their discussions but I agree with


the principle of what Tom Watson and others have said. However, the


problem with that is that the EU rules do not and I were to happen,


so the issue for all of us is going to be, whatever the vote, what do we


do afterwards on the Friday? And if it is the bob, we have that


opportunity. Let's go straight over to the Commons to speak to the


shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Seema Malhotra. Let me


come to you straightaway. You have heard the Chancellor with what has


been called a punishment budget. If we vote to leave and the Chancellor


came forward with a budget like that, would Labour vote for it or


not? Hello, Andrew. We have been very clear that we won't be


supporting a budget that sees cuts to the NHS, cuts to working people's


support. We don't believe that a Tory Brexit and then an emergency


budget is going to give people the reassurance that there is going to


be a brighter future at all with Brexit. What we are saying, and we


are calling on people today, with our opposition day, to say that


there is a brighter future if we stay in the EU. That is absolutely


where we need to be. I understand that that is your position. Can I


just clarify, because Alistair Darling, former Labour Chancellor,


appeared with George Osborne as the outline of this post Brexit budget


was announced. Can I take it that Mr Darling was not represented the


Labour Party by being with Mr Osborne on that? Lube the context of


this is very clear. This is the same warning that the IFF and others


brought in, that there would be a hole in our budget... I asked you


about Mr Darling. It would be nice to get announced that it was he


speaking just for himself or did he in any way represent the Labour


Party? He's talking in terms of how we would need to address, and the


country would be to address, a hole in public funding finances. But what


we've been saying is that we would not be voting for more cuts, so what


we need to do, and the message that we want to give, is that if you want


security and you want prosperity and you don't want to do self-inflicted


damage to our economy... You said that. I've been trying to get an


answer to my question. I'm not getting answers from Ed Vaizey and


I'm not getting answers from you. So please give some respect our


audience who are voting next Thursday and only ask you one more


time, was Alistair Darling just being for himself by being alongside


Osborne or did he represent the Labour Party? We have said very


clearly, Andrew, and I'll just say this again... No, don't say it


again, just answer the question. It is important that you answer the


question. The context is a new. All right, well, you're not going to


answer the question. I'm sorry, Seema Malhotra. I've had enough. You


are not answering the question, so let's not waste our time with any


more of this. Is it going to go on like this? When is the referendum?


Next Thursday. Couldn't come soon enough!


Now, today is our last PMQs programme


and you might be wondering, what could have changed when we come


Clearly not politicians answering the question.


Will it still be David Cameron vs Jeremy Corbyn?


Will the BBC still be able to afford the huge budget for JoCo's graphics?


Will Ed Vaizey be here in the studio...again?


I keep coming back for this punishment! It is like a Russian


doll. If you just answer the questions, I wouldn't need to be


rude. Well, you can be sure there's one


thing that will stay the same regardless of whether we vote


to leave or remain - And that's because we've got a job


lot of them stacked in boxes So if you want to be


in with the chance of winning this historic mug, which is actually just


the same as all the others, all you have to do is tell us


when this happened. For South Africans to trade together


to celebrate the birth of democracy. We've been praying long


enough for it, haven't we? To be in with a chance of winning


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It's coming up to midday. It is a beautiful summer's des. There won't


be a Primus is questions next week because of a referendum. Laura


Coombs Boadicea. I would suggest that a normal PMQs, the Labour


leader would stand up and say, if the Chancellor things he can do this


kind of budget rose Brexit, he's got another thing coming, but can Mr


Corbyn do that, since he is nominally on the Remain site? I'm


not sure. I think there is something else there because we know that


Jeremy Corbyn often want to do his own subjects! They're already under


way. We will come back to you. I know the whole house will join


with me incentive condolences to the family and friends of those killed


in the in Orlando on Sunday. This attack, along with the callous


murder of a French policeman on Monday, is a stark remind of the


challenge we face to defeat the poisonous ideology of Daesh both


online and on our streets. I believe that together with our friends, our


allies and our common values, we will prevail. This morning I had


meetings with ministerial colleagues and added just two duties in this


House, I shall have further such meetings later today. Thank you, Mr


Speaker. I share the Prime Minister's sentiments in the Sabet


is expressed to the victims, families and friends of those in


Orlando. The Australian parent company of a United Kingdom company


who see Europe as a major market expansion have put on hold their


plans to build a factory in the enterprise zone on the South


Lowestoft industrial estate. Lowestoft has enormous potential as


a centre for serving the European maritime market but does the Prime


Minister share my concern that this opportunity would unnecessarily be


placed at risk if the UK beats the EU? -- leaves. I share his concern.


I well remember visiting his constituency and seeing what a


thriving business location Lowestoft is. He is right that many companies


come to Britain and invest in Britain for many reasons but one of


the most important is access to the single market of 500 million


customers. Next week we have the opportunity to put our place in that


single market beyond doubt and I hope that we wake up on June 24


knowing that businesses are going to invest more in our country, create


more jobs in our country, see more growth in our country, because that


will help the families of our country and the unemployment figures


today, another welcome fall in unemployment, we could see continued


progress. Lets see our country moving forward. I concur and join


with the Prime Minister in his remarks about the terrible deaths in


Orlando. On Monday I joined a vigil of thousands of LGBT people in Soho


in London to mourn the deaths of the 49 and also I want to say, we say


thank you to all those all over this country who attended vigils on


Monday night to show their concern and their horror about it. Quite


simply, we defeat such atrocities through our love and our solidarity


and we need to send that message out. Three years ago, there was a


cross-party agreement for the lamentation of section 40 of the


Crime and Courts Bill and to proceed with Leveson to once prosecutors


were concluded. The Prime Minister will be aware that today there is a


lobby of Parliament by the victims of phone hacking. The Prime Minister


said a few years ago that we all did too much cosying up to Rupert


Murdoch. Some of his Tory Brexit colleagues are certainly cosying up


to Rupert Murdoch at the moment but will the Prime Minister give a


commitment today that he will meet the victims of press intrusion and


assure them that he will keep his promise on this? Let me again echo


what he said about the Orlando bombings. In terms of the Leveson


issue, we said that we'd make a decision about a second stage of


this inquiry once the criminal investigations and prosecutions were


out of the weighted top they are still continuing and so that is the


situation. -- out of the way. I have met with victims of press intrusion


and I'm happy to do so again. I think people can accuse me of many


things but cosying up to Rupert Murdoch is not one of them. My


question was, will he meet the victims of phone hacking? I hope you


will because they deserve it anti-bra missed that he would meet


them. A major thunder of the Leave campaign said, and I quote, "If it


were up to me, I'd privatise the National Health Service". The


honourable member for Uxbridge said, "If people have to pay for NHS


services they will value them all". Both he and the honourable member


for Surrey Heath are members of a government that has put the NHS into


record deficit. These people are now masquerading as the saviours of the


NHS. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Did the honourable member for Totnes get


it right when she rejected the duplicity of this argument in the


Leave campaign and decided to join the Remain campaign? I was delighted


with what my right honourable... My honourable friend, the Member for


Totnes, said about changing her mind, which is a brave thing for


politicians to do, and saying that she thought that the NHS would be


safer if we remain inside a reformed EU. I believe that very profoundly,


because the key to a strong NHS is a strong economy and I think there


can't be any doubt that nine out of ten economists, the governor of the


Bank of England, the IMF, the OECD, all of these other organisations,


saying our economy will be stronger and it is a strong economy that


delivers a strong NHS. Last week, the Prime Minister gave a welcome


commitment to the closing of the loophole in the posting of workers


directive. We will hold him to that but we are concerned about the


exploitation of migrant workers and the undercutting of wages in this


country as a result of that. On that issue, will the Prime Minister today


commit to the outlawing of the practice of agencies that only


advertise abroad for jobs that are in reality jobs in this country?


First of all, he and I absolutely agree about the evils of Modern


Slavery Bill that is why this government passed the Modern Slavery


Bill with all-party support. We've doubled the fines that can be put on


companies for exploiting labour in this way and we have strengthened


the gang masters licensing authority and they have commenced and carried


out a number of prosecutions, including in the eastern and, where


I was yesterday, and so we continue to take action on every level to


make sure people are paid their wages they should be paid and that


protections are there on the minimum wage and now on a national living


wage. -- including in the East of England. I think all of those are


vital and we will continue with those measures. I think people are


entitled to a fair day's pay for a fair day's what. My question was


about outlawing the practice of advertising by agencies only in


other countries. Tens of thousands of EU and other people who have


migrated to Britain work in our public services and do a fantastic


job. Many people in Britain are also concerned about immigration and


their local communities. Surely what communities need is practical


solutions like the migrant impact fund set up by Gordon Brown when he


was Prime Minister to deal with the extra pressure on housing, schools


and hospitals. Will the Prime Minister now


concede that it was a mistake to abolish that fund and will he work


with us to reinstate it as a matter of urgency, to give support to those


communities that are facing problems on school places and doctors'


surgeries? He is absolutely right. In answer to the question about


employment agencies that only advertise for overseas workers, we


are looking at Battersea if we can ban that practice because we don't


believe that is right. Of course, the answer to so many of these


questions is actually to make sure we are training, educating and


employing British people and getting member qualifications they need to


take on the jobs that are economy is creating an today's unemployment


figures are another reminder that. In terms of funds to help


communities impacted by migration, we have a pledge in our manifesto,


which we are looking forward to bringing forward, with a controlled


migration fun to make sure we put money into communities where there


are pressures because, of course, there are some pressures and we do


need to address them and I'm happy that we will be able to work on a


cross-party basis to do that it cos I've said many times, there are good


ways of controlling migration and one of them is the rules we are


bringing in so people don't get instant access to our welfare


system, but there are bad ways of controlling immigration. Leaving the


single market and wrecking our economy is certainly one of them.


Today, a flotilla of boats is due to come along the Thames complaining


fishing quotas are not going to the UK domestic fleet. My have not seen


them yet, but presumably they are on their way. The Prime Minister will


be aware that reforms made three years ago put the power back into


the hands of member states and it is the UK Government that has given


nearly two thirds of the English and Welsh fishing quotas to just three


companies, excluding small fishing communities along the coasts. Can


the Prime Minister stop blaming Brussels on this and tell our


fishing communities what action he will take to allow them to continue


their work and go further out in collect Kingfish? First of all, can


I thank him for the reforms we carried through in the last


Parliament and the honourable member was crucial in delivering those


changes. What we have seen in the last five years is an increase in


the value of the UK fishing industry of something like 20%. We export


every year about one billion pounds worth of fish to the EU and there is


no country in the world that has a trade agreement with the EU that


doesn't involve tariffs, taxes on the sale of its fish. There is no


way we would get a better deal on the outside than the deal we get on


the outside. So working with fishing communities, working with fishermen


and keeping the market open and make sure we manage our fish stocks


locally and appropriately is part of our plan. His government still


handed quotas over to three very large companies at the expense of


small communities around Britain, I hope he reflects on that. Mr


Speaker, with eight days to go before the referendum, the Labour


position is, we will be voting to remain because it is the best way to


protect families, protect jobs and protect public services. We would


oppose any posed Brexit austerity budget, just as we have opposed any


austerity budget put forward by this government. Will the Prime Minister


take this opportunity to condemn the opportunism of 57 of his colleagues,


who are pro-Leave, these are members who backed the bedroom tax, backed


cutting disability benefits and cutting care for the elderly, who


suddenly have now had a conversion to the anti-austerity movement. Does


he have any message for them, does he have any message for them at all?


What I would say to the right honourable gentleman, there are very


few times when he and I are on the same side of an argument. This must


say to people watching at home, when you have the leader of the Labour


Party and almost all of the Labour Party, Conservative Government, the


Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Ulster Unionists and the Scottish


National Party old saying, we have huge disagreements, but on this


vital issue, the best option for Britain is to vote to remain in a


reformed European union, really says something. This is a huge choice for


our country, choices have consequences. If we wake up on June


the 24th and we have remained in, the economy can move forward. If we


vote out, experts warn as we have a small economy, lesser wages and less


tax receipts. That is why we would have to do have measures to address


a huge hole in our public finances. Nobody wants to have an emergency


budget, nobody wants to have cuts in public services. Nobody wants to


have tax increases. But there is only one thing worse than not


addressing a crisis in your public finances through a budget, and that


is ignoring it. If you ignore a crisis, you see your economy go into


a tailspin, confidence is reduced in the country. We can avoid all of


this I voting Remain next week. Having recently undertaken a real


I'll tour of my constituency, and Sam told -- sampled some of the


nicest ales in the north, can I ask the Prime Minister to join me in


nodding to the virtues and massive benefits to the economies from small


and medium-size breweries from up and the country? Happy to agree with


my honourable friend, having spent last weekend in Kent and yesterday


in Bury St Edmunds, I agree a large quantity of real ale is one of the


best ways to get through this gruelling referendum campaign. The


British beer industry is in good health because of the duty cuts from


the Chancellor, because of the microbe Ruhe tax regime. We have a


lot of craft beer coming through and the brewers I am talking to and


going to see, they want the single market open and they want to remain


in. On Orlando and the deaths in France, we aren't these benches join


with the condolences expressed by the Prime Minister and the Leader of


the Opposition. We are now only a week away from the biggest question


the UK has faced in a long time, and that is the continuing membership of


the European Union. Exports, goods and services from the Scottish


economy are massive important. Hundreds and thousands of jobs


depend on them. Meanwhile, public services, including the NHS are


supported by many hard-working people buy elsewhere in the European


Union. Does the Prime Minister agree, if we want to protect jobs,


public services, we must vote to remain in the European Union gesture


Mark I do believe the most important arguments is about the future of our


economy. It seems obvious you can listen to the experts or make a


common-sense argument. Today we have access to a market of 500 million


people. For an economy like Scotland, such a big exporting


economy, there is no way we would get a better deal with the single


market on the outside than we get on the inside. If we left we would seek


our economy suffer, jobs suffer, livelihood suffer. It is plain


common sense. I agree with him, for jobs and livelihoods, we should


remain in. There is a consequence the public finances, if our economy


is doing less well, public finances would be doing less well and that


would have consequences for Scotland. Make a raise that with the


Prime Minister? We have learned from a Conservative Chancellor of the


Exchequer and a former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer, there


would be likely to be 30 billion pounds in cuts to public services or


tax rises, where there to be a Brexit vote. What impact would that


have on public services in Scotland? Please, can we learn now before we


vote? What impact would it have on the budget in Scotland that pays for


the NHS in Scotland, schools in Scotland, local government and key


public services. Is it not another reason why we must vote to remain in


the European Union? What I would say to the right honourable gentleman,


these figures are not based on what the Chancellor of the Exchequer is


saying, they are based on what the Institute for Fiscal Studies is


saying. They are talking about at 20 to 40 billion hole in our public


finances if regs it went ahead. These are organisations quoted in


this House against the government because they are respected for their


independence. Decisions to cut public spending in the UK budget do


have an impact on Scotland. And to anyone who says, these warnings of


course, they could be wrong, they could be inaccurate, this is an


uncomfortable point to make to the right honourable gentleman, of


course there were warnings about the oil price before the Scottish


referendum. It turned out to be worse than the experts warned. Thank


you Mr Speaker. Since the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, many


of my constituents are worried that remaining in the EU increases the


risk of terrorism. Fear is exacerbated by the disgraceful


comments of people like Nigel Farage. Does my right honourable


friend agree, security services are helped by the EU and not hindered? I


would say directly to my honourable friend, I have done this job for six


years, working with the Home Secretary, I have seen how closely


our intelligence and security services work with other services


around the world. Of course we keep ourselves safe by investing in


anti-terrorism policing and keep ourselves safe by working with the


Americans and the partnership. I am in no doubt increasing extent of


intelligence exchange that takes place through the EU is of direct


benefit. It is not just you need a border, you need information and


intelligence to police the border properly. We are seeing an enormous


amount of exchange about criminal records, passenger name records.


Outside the EU we can try and negotiate our way back into these


agreements, but right now we are in them and we are driving them.


Knowsley is expected to receive ?10 million in EU funding over the next


three years. EU funding has helped attract his Mrs to the borough like


QVC which created 2500 jobs. Isn't it the case of this important


funding from the EU could be lost if we vote to leave the European Union?


The honourable gentleman makes an important point. Which is, if you


look at these independent, economic reports, they said there is no


financial saving from leaving the EU. The Institute for Fiscal Studies


said, we can include leaving the EU would not leave more money to spend


on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services or


taxing more or borrowing more. I would argue there is a big dividend


from remaining inside the EU and we will start to feel it next Friday as


companies could see Britain have made a decision and job creators and


international investors would know Britain meant business and they


would be investing in our country, but there is no interest in leaving.


The number of working households has declined since 2010, will he focus


on more jobs and a growing economy? The most important thing we can do


for parents in our country is to help them get a job, earn a living


and provide for their family. In our life chances strategy, measuring


worthlessness and school attainment are important in helping to ensure


we continue to help lift children out of poverty. Mr Speaker, two


German men run businesses in Scotland, but they cannot vote next


week. They leave for France on Sunday and are considering leaving


permanently if we exit the EU. Will the Prime Minister join my call for


them and others in a similar situation to stay, as they are


highly valued? There are many people who come to this country, work hard


and make a contribution and help to build communities. It is important


to get the numbers into the spec. 5% of the population are EU nationals,


Italians, Germans, Polish and the rest of it. Only five people in the


street will be EU nationals. Look at our NHS, 50,000 EU nationals, care


homes, 60,000 EU nationals helping to look after elderly relatives with


dementia and other conditions as they come to the end of their life.


We do need to make sure people who come here are working and making a


contribution, but we should celebrate the contribution they


make. Given the government's recent enthusiasm for making forecasts and


predictions, can the Prime Minister please tell the House, in which year


will we meet our manifesto commitment to reduce immigration to


the tens of thousands? At the last year for which EU migration was in


Allen 's, the number of EU nationals and British nationals leaving our


shores to work in Europe and the number of EU nationals coming to


live and work here, the last year that was in balance was 2008. I


would say to my honourable friend, yes, we need to do more to control


migration from outside the EU, and we are doing that with the closure


of bogus colleges and other measures. We are doing more inside


the EU, not least saying people who come here, if they don't get a job


after six months, they have to leave. If they were, they have to


contribute for four years before they get full access to the welfare


system. Those are big changes and sensible ways of controlling


immigration. A nonsense of always pulling out of the single market,


damaging jobs and damaging the economy and having to explain to our


constituents why we have self impose a recession on our economy. Many


from my constituency of Swansea are struggling to make ends meet. The


World Trade Organisation say if we leave the EU, we could face a major


tariffs on trade. We would have to re-negotiate over 160 trade


agreements. Does the Prime Minister agree with me, leaving the EU would


hit hard-working families the most, raising the cost of living and it is


to take a risk to take? The honourable lady is right. It is


always the poorest who will get hit hardest if an economy suffers a


recession. There are two ways the cost of living can be impacted. If


we lead the single market, go to WTO rules, we would have tariffs imposed


on the goods they sell to Europe. But also if the pound was to fall,


which many independent experts forecast, the cost of living rises,


shopping rises, the cost of holidays rises. It is not worth the risk, we


should not risk it, we should keep our country safe. Following the


Chancellor's welcome announcement to launch the new Thames Estuary 2050


growth commission, could the Prime Minister outline his hopes for how


the commission's focus will deliver the infrastructure and economic


development that will allow North Kent to prosper, including my


wonderful constituency of Rochester? Always, whenever I get a question


from my honourable friend, I remember how grateful I am she is


sitting for Rochester and Strood. Happy days. In terms of the 2050


growth commission, the key areas are skills and infrastructure. There is


a serious amount of money being committed to the infrastructure and


we do need to look at things, including the lower Thames crossing,


to make sure the economy in that region can make the most of its


potential. 2500 people are employed in the ceramics industry in my


constituency. Their jobs are dependent on EU trades and rights


are protected by the EU social chapter and their town centres have


been rebuilt with EU funds. With his friends in the Leave campaign


producing more spin than a potter's wheel... Does the Prime Minister


share my fear is that this by your's floors, a Brexit vote can leave is


picking up the pieces of a broken economy the years to come. I am


going to pinch that sound bite. The honourable lady is right, if we lead


the single market and the European Union, the council president has


said, the process probably takes two years. After that you have to


negotiate a trade deal with the European Union. If it is a trade


deal like Canada, it could take seven years. We are looking at a


decade of uncertainty for the economy. On the ceramic industry, I


am advised by my Parliamentary Private Secretary, who did do a


worthwhile job of working in that industry before coming here... He


may not be spinning wheels any more, but spinning for me very


effectively! We exported billions of porcelain soup China and the EU and


if we were outside the EU, there would be a 12% tax. I don't want us


to hit British manufactures, car-makers, aeroplane makers, we


should be investing in those industries and helping them support


and not making the situation more difficult, which is what regs it


would do. 30 years ago when I was a lad, my parents quit their jobs...


30 years ago my parents quit their jobs and they founded a small


manufacturing business around our kitchen table. Today, British


manufacturers, particularly small businesses are worried. They are


worried because if we leave the European Union, they will continue


to make their products to common European standards. Because they


value the free market. They value the single market and they value the


export. They are aware the United Kingdom will have no say whatsoever


in the formulation of those standards. And their competitive


advantage will be destroyed. What advice does my right honourable


friend have for my parents, for small businesses and for the


millions of jobs that depends on them across the country washed your


mark I always assumed my honourable friend was under 30, so I am


shocked. But he makes an important point, if we were to leave we lose


the seat around the table that sets the rules of the single market.


Sometimes those rules can be annoying or burdensome, but they are


the rules we have two meet. If you leave and you have no say over those


rules, you'd don't gain control, you lose control. It is a crucial


argument why the majority of small businesses back staying in EU, as


well as a lot of larger as this is. That I endorse the comments and


associate the SCOP about Paris and Orlando. Ironed assure the Prime


Minister that the SDLP is behind him and his efforts to ensure a Remain


vote but the Brexit campaigners have made our borders their resounding


war cry and will when it comes to the only land border between the UK


and the EU, we're told nothing will change. A critical economic change


for Northern Ireland's voters in eight days... Camber primers to


clarify this point and tell the people of Northern Ireland, what


will become of the border if the UK votes to leave the EU? I thank him


for his remarks about the Orlando shootings but on this issue, if we


vote to stay in, we know what the situation is. We know that the


Common travel area works, we know it can continue and everyone can have


confidence in that. If we were to leave, and as the Leave campaigners


want, make a big issue about our borders, then you've got a land


border between Britain outside the EU and the Republic of Ireland


inside the EU. And therefore you can only either have new border controls


between the Republic and Northern Ireland or, which I would regret


usually, you would have to have some sort of checks on people as they


left Belfast or other parts of Northern Ireland to come to the rest


of the United Kingdom. We can avoid these risks. There are so many risks


here, risks to our children's jobs, risks Tony Hibbert in future, risks


to our borders, risks to the unity of the UK. -- risks to our


children's fugitive top I say avoid the risks and vowed to remain in the


EU. Next week I will be visiting schools in my constituency to


explain both sides of the EU argument to those who will be most


heavily affected by a decision they cannot make. Does the Prime Minister


have any words for these people for the Remain segment? I am grateful


for his hard work. This is about that even if those people in those


schools aren't able to vote, will affect their futures, and I hope


they will talk to their parents and grandparents after being inspired by


my honourable friend about wanting to grow up in a country with


opportunity. We're bound to have more opportunity if we remain in a


reformed EU with 27 other countries. I also think it goes to a point


about what sort of country want our children to grow up in, not just one


of economic and job of that unity is but one where our country is able to


effect change and get things done in the world. We don't diminish


ourselves inside the EU, we enhance the power of Britain and the


greatness of our country. Old Bob Approximately 11,000 Marks Spencer


is employees, many with more than 14 years' service, are about to get a


serious pay cut. Cuts to Sunday pay, bank holiday and anti-social hours


pay, all made on the back of the national living wage, means they


will take home less next year than they do this year, with some losing


up to ?2000. This is not just any pay cut, this is a big, fat Marks


and Spencer pay cut. Does the Prime Minister agree with his Chancellor


that cutting take home pay at M or anywhere else on the back of the


national living wage is wrong and, if so, will he moved to close the


loopholes that make this possible? Obviously, we want to see the


national living wage leading through into the bar having higher take home


pay, not lower take home pay, and we would urge all companies to make


sure that is the case. I haven't seen the information about Marks


Spencer but they know, like any retailer, that they need to attract


and retain and motivate staff that they have and it's absolutely


crucial in retail, particularly with all the competition with online,


that they continue to do that, and they won't do that if they cut


people's pay. I agree with the Prime Minister on Europe. When he said to


the CBR on the 9th of November last year, and I quote, "Some people seem


to say that Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK outside the


EU, I don't think that is true," the argument isn't whether Britain could


survive outside the EU, of course it could. So if, as I hope, despite the


panic driven negativity from the Remain camp and Downing Street, the


British people vote next week to become a free and independent nation


again. Will my right honourable friend join me in embracing the


optimism and opportunity for our country and our people that such a


momentous decision would bring? I would say to my honourable friend,


as I said at the CBI, of course Britain can survive outside the EU.


Nobody is questioning that. The question is, how are we going to do


best? How are we going to create the most jobs, the most investment, have


the most opportunities our children, we'll do the greatest power in the


world, get things done? And all those issues, stronger, safer,


better off, the arguments are on the Remain aside. Could I associate


myself and, indeed, all of my party across the country with the remarks


he made earlier on about the killings in France and the brutal,


phobic murders in Florida. The killer and his vicious, homophobic


act do not speak for Islam. The wealthy Eve eat fuelling the Leave


campaign will be an harmed by the inevitable hike in interest rates


that will follow Britain's exit from the EU and the decline in sterling.


The rate rise, however, will have a hit on millions of ordinary British


people. It will push people to lose their homes through repossession and


push low-income people further into crippling debt. Was he advises Tory


Brexit colleagues that there is a long-term economic plan on offer, in


which he can help those people who are hard-working families not to


suffer? It is to vote Remain on Thursday. He and I are often on


opposing sides of arguments but I think it says volumes about the


breadth of the campaign to remain in a reformed EU that we have the


Liberal Democrats, as well as the Labour Party, the Greens, the trades


unions, and so many others, coming from different perspectives but all


saying our economy will be better off so therefore families will be


better off, our country will be better off, if we remain in, and


he's absolutely right in what he says about interest rates. The last


thing homeowners, home-buyers and our country needs is a hike in


interest rates damaging our economy. I'm glad he's bought a long-term


economic plan and that should have, as part of its plan, remaining in


reformed EU. Can I congratulate him for an array our manifesto pledge --


honouring our manifesto pledge and delivering this historic referendum.


Unfortunately, we have heard some hysterical scaremongering during


this debate. There are those in this House, and in the other place, who


believe that if the British people decide to leave the EU, there should


be a second referendum. Can he assure the House and the country


that whatever the result on June 24, his government will carry out the


wishes of the British people. If the voters to remain, to remain, and if


the voters to leave, which I hope it is, then we leave. I'm very happy to


agree with my honourable friend. In means we remain in a reformed


European Union, out means we come out. And as the Leave campaigners


have said and others have said, out means out of the European Union, out


of the European single market, out of the council of ministers, out of


all of those things, and it then means a process of delivering that


which will take at least two years, and then delivering a trade deal


which could take as many as seven years, so I would say to anyone


still in doubt - and there are even members in this House still thinking


about how to vote - if you haven't made up your mind yet, if you are


still uncertain, when you think of that decade of uncertainty for our


economy and everything else, don't risk it, and vote Remain. The North


Middlesex Hospital accident and emergency unit is incomplete


meltdown. Will the Prime Minister commit to taking swift action to


tackle this crisis? I do understand it is a very busy accident and


emergency unit. It has received over 30,600 patients through its doors in


April alone but it has managed to carry out 40,000 operations and more


than 62,000 diagnostic tests every year. If we look at what has


happened since 2010, there are 120 more doctors, 200 mating more nurses


recruited by the trust. -- 280 more nurses. But I think this comes out


to the core argument of today. If we remain in, we will have a stronger


economy and then we have to make sure we take the proceeds of growth


in that economy and continue to put them into the NHS, as I've always


done as Prime Minister. I'm looking forward to the British people giving


me the opportunity to vote against the vindictive emergency budget.


Will my right honourable friend explained that if the Government is


so strapped for cash, why is it still intent on spending ?50 billion


on HS2? The point is that we will be strapped for cash if you believe the


Institute for Fiscal Studies, or the national Institute for it, can


social research, both impeccably Independent, who say there will be a


hole in our public finances between 20 billion and 40 billion. If the


economy shrinks and you have fewer jobs and lower wages, you get less


tax receipts. If you have less tax receipts, clearly you either have to


make cuts or you have to put up taxes or you have to increase


borrowing. It is a simple matter of mathematics. There is an easy way to


avoid getting into that situation and that is devoted to stay in a


reformed EU next Thursday. Order. I once asked the US Secretary of


State but his policy was in the Caribbean, and he said it was a


potter portrayed in a formulation mode. I think you can use that to


describe today's PMQs. Jeremy Corbyn started with a question which took


us by surprise on phone hacking. He then moved on to the NHS and Leave


and whether the NHS would be weaker or stronger. And then the old


favourite about the post workers directive, and the agencies who only


advertise jobs abroad. We moved on the migrant funds which Jeremy


Corbyn was pushing. The Prime Minister said he had reignited the


migrant funds. Then we had fishing quotas. We didn't see that one


happening, but there is a lot going on on the Thames at the moment with


fishermen for Brexit being assailed by Bob Geldof in a different vote


for Remain. But should be fun. You know it is a big news event when


helicopters are scrambled to cover it. Finally we got to the central,


crucial note of this referendum, the Chancellor saying he would need an


emergency budget if we voted to leave and Jeremy Corbyn as the Prime


Minister what he thought about the 57 MPs who said they wouldn't vote


for that. We then got Mr Cameron to give his case that the union. The


questions were lined up so the Prime Minister could respond in that way.


An unusual PMQs. Break next week. Helen Manning said Jeremy Corbyn


asking questions about phone hacking and agency workers EU directives


when this country is on the brink of deciding future, is farcical.


Kurt said they were the most boring and staged questions by Jeremy


Corbyn. Geoffrey said scaremongering from Mr Cameron Phil is no one. He


should be ashamed of himself, I have a sneaky suspicion it was his last


PMQs as Conservative leader anyway. And then this tweet from Matt -


there are a lot of bored journalists sitting in PMQs wishing they were


outside on a boat, they are miserably watching the flotilla on


Twitter. There is some truth in that. We will


see if we can get some pictures of this flotilla. Is there don't know


flotilla as well. Not unless you have charted it. We have a reporter


on this flotilla, we are going live before the end of this programme.


Some people are barbecuing Scottish langoustine brought all the way from


Peterhead. If that is your kind of thing, it might be worth going to


the river. Look at the pictures. I think the big boat in the middle


belongs to Bob Geldof, the Leave one. Hose down by a Leave boat. A


senior member of the government did say to me this morning, what is


going on in the world. We are on the verge of making this huge decision


and we end up with boats scrapping each other on the Thames. There is a


very strange mood in Westminster because nobody has a clue what is


going to happen. Partly because the polling models don't work and the


parties are discredited after the general election. People are hearing


different messages on the doorsteps. There is a sense that anything might


happen. One of the viewers said, it might be huge, but it might be David


Cameron's last PMQs. It is one of the multiplicity of possible things


that might happen in the next ten days. Is it a strange atmosphere,


John? People are taking control and the politicians don't know what to


do. I am talking about Labour MPs, going out and having street stalls,


they are getting robust exchanges, shall we say. When they are knocking


on doors, to find what is happening, there aren't many knocking on doors,


but they are shocked at the response they are getting. They shouldn't be.


The interesting thing is, my prediction, the turnout in


working-class communities will be higher than in any other


communities, for the first time since the 50s. It is true,


everywhere I go, the school gates, the local shop, for the first time,


everybody is talking about it. They are not talking about the debate we


politicians are having, whatever our views are. That is not influencing


them, they are talking about what their experience is of it, workplace


discussions, discussions in the community and discussions in


families around the dinner table. That is what is going on and that is


why so many people are going to vote. It has proved much tougher for


the Prime Minister than he thought. He didn't expect to be in this


position one week out, it was meant to be that by now, it would still be


a fight, but a clear majority to Remain. Why hasn't it worked out? I


don't know what the result will be. I still think it will be a Remain


vote. I know I will annoy the viewers again and sound like a


cliched politician, but we know the polls have been wrong and there was


a rogue poll for the Scottish independence, and there was in terms


of the general election. It isn't a slam dunk. My question didn't imply


victory for Remain Leave. Why has it turned out to be tougher? I think


John is onto something because there is a disconnect between Westminster


politicians and their voters. It wasn't meant to be an anti-labour


point, but Labour finds itself in a disconnected position. It is what


has happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. It has been replaced by


the SNP, the centre-left party people vote for that they feel talk


to them. And I think the similar is happening in Labour's northern


constituencies. John has worked very hard to keep in touch with the


voters. That is true, but the David Cameron misjudgement above all. I


think he thought, let's call them the Labour moderates, Liz candle,


Yvette Cooper, very pro-European, historically. They would be


outspoken and it would carry that sway and Jeremy and his leadership


and these new people, that would appeal, I think they bought the myth


of these vast numbers of Jeremy Corbyn fans out there, where are


they? The fact is, there aren't that many of them, they are not knocking


on doors. A lot of them, possibly Jeremy Corbyn himself, not that


convinced about the European Union. The George Osborne, David Cameron


playbook for the referendum was they saw as being a successful tactic in


the Scottish referendum and then a successful tactic in the general


election, don't take the risk with the economy. That is the play, that


is what they decided to do in this referendum campaign as well. Despite


the fact people in the Conservative Party and the Labour Party,


internally in the Remain camp have been saying, we have to offer more


than this, it is not the general election or a replay of the Scottish


referendum. Yes, there is a problem with Labour having a disconnect with


their voters, but one of the big points we have seen, the Prime


Minister is now in an uncomfortable position, then analysis of what


would work in this referendum campaign going on the narrow


economic point, has proved to be wrong. That has not delivered, it


hasn't resonated. I would suggest, and there are all sorts of things


going on in this referendum, I would suggest this referendum was always


going to be about identity as well as how well of the country is. Also,


there has a thing we have seen in the last few weeks, we are in a


post-fact world. People we have been talking to around the country,


seeing people and listening to politicians and asking questions of


politicians, voters don't want to believe any of them at all. So


Westminster scrapping over the 350 million whatever, people don't


believe either side at all. It is about expenses, probably about cash


for honours in Iraq. People had underestimated the level of distrust


amongst some parts of the electorate. I think many voters


it'll be about instinct. The Scottish referendum was as much


about identity as was about the economy and in terms of what John is


finding on the doorstep, I don't know, but I think there are issues


that do resonate. One is about sovereignty, are we ruled by Europe


or not? I think we are strong independent nation. It is about an


economic risk. People do to that point on board. And there is this


whole debate about immigration, not being anti immigration per se but


worried about the effect on public services. There is one very powerful


thing that is also going on, and I don't disagree with what you are


saying, and that's about empowerment. Zero our contracts,


agency work, it's a referendum. We can make a decision and people are


thinking... The feedback I get, people are talking about agency work


all the time. This is what I think is motivated people. It's not about


"We don't like foreigners". There's a tiny group who say that, but that


is not what the vast majority are saying. To me they are saying the


opposite. They are saying, I've got this wonderful Polish neighbour next


to me, but it's my job. And that empowerment where they can make a


decision, that's very big and that's why turnout will be high. We have


run out of time and need to move on. It is fast approaching one o'clock.


Laura, thank you. Now, the businessman


Philip Green has been appearing from MPs over his part


in the collapse of the high There's certainly no intent at all


on my part for anything to be like this, and it didn't need to be like


this, and I just want to apologise to all the BHS people who have been


involved in this. When you first... I wasn't involved in it. I can't


answer you because I wasn't involved in its. You can ask me as many


questions as you like. This was not on my table to deal with. On your


commitment to the pension scheme... Why can't I answer the question? No,


no, no, because you are not getting the right information. He is trying


to make me answer things I cannot answer and force me to give him the


answer he wants and I'm not going to. Before the hearing, Philip Green


described the Parliamentary increase as a process which is not even the


pretence of fairness and objectivity and at its primary objective was


"The destruction of my repeat edition" you describe the showed up?


No, because then he would have been dragged on and it would have been


even worse. His reputation is damaged anyway. When his web of


things are going well, he takes all the glory and all of the money. When


it goes wrong, everyone else takes the hit and he says it is nothing to


do with him. That is fundamentally wrong morally, ethically, and is


fundamentally unfair. But in the end, Ed Vaizey, what did we learn?


Those people are still going to lose those jobs. I haven't seen the


select committee hearing but Frank Field is a highly respected chairman


of that committee, very experienced in these issues, and the reason he


is in front of the committee is about the future of the BHS pension,


so I'm sure the select committee report will influence thinking. The


Government itself is thinking in terms of the insolvency service


inquiry and working with the pensions regulator and the pension


protection fund. But you would expect a committee like Frank's to


either firstly focus on what happened to the BHS pension but also


come up with recommendations on what has happened, for the Government to


say, these are things we should be thinking about. He refused to


guarantee today that people in the scheme would get the same amount,


those already in the scheme, would get the same amount they were


originally entitled to before BHS collapsed, in terms of pensions. If


his plan does fall short, should the Government stepping? It is too soon


to say and I don't want to be accused of dodging the question but


there is a process where you have the pensions regulator, which has


the power, potentially, to ask the former owner of a company to


contribute to a pension deficit, and you've got the pension protection


fund, which was set up precisely to help where a pension fund was in


deficit because of a company going bust. So both those organisations


are working with the BHS pension trustees. But if that doesn't


happen, should the government help? Potentially, the protection fund is


the Government's body to help out when the pension is a deficit. So


maybe, then. Sir Philip Green also said he is working on a solution for


the BHS pensions mess, as he called it, and said it wasn't anything


directly to do with him, in terms of the talks that happened beforehand.


There are 20,000 people in the scheme and it has a ?571 million


deficit. What do you think will happen? I think there is a big


danger those people are going to lose out quite a lot and therefore


it needs government assistance and need him to cough up all the money


he made out of this escapade and put it back in. Do you think that is


likely? No. Oh, well, there you go. I got an answer. That was an answer!


Nigel Farage is leading a flotilla in protest at the EU fishing quotas.


They set off from South End in the early hours of the morning,


and made their way under London Bridge before arriving


You can see them there looking onto the MPs' Terrace.


It's not been entirely plain sailing as they also encountered


pro-Remain ships - one carrying the activist


Bob Geldof - as they made their way toward the Westminster.


We are seafaring nation and it is only fair that this should be fought


out in the Thames. Our man on the front line in the Battle of the


Brexit votes is Giles Dilnot. We go to him live.


You had debates, you've had leaflets, you haven't heard anything


quite like this. A water board war of words between Nigel Farage and


Bob Geldof! A flotilla of fishing industry votes for Leave saying that


the EU has crippled the industry. We got a whole flotilla of small In


votes zipping around and that large barge with Bob Geldof on it,


chanting that the EU benefits fishermen. There were not many


fishermen on board that vote. Nigel Farage pointing out that this is a


millionaire dictating to small businessmen. I saw earlier the


millionaire supporter of Leave.EU smiling at me and saying that it


looked fun. There are people saying the EU has been very bad for them,


Nigel Farage is here to support them, and when it got to that battle


of words, it was quite something and most of us have ears ringing. We've


moved away from the House of Commons because frankly, you wouldn't have


heard a word I said. I'm glad you did but you seem to be going


upstream now. When are you going to turn round and go back down again? I


have absolutely no idea, to be honest. I want a tactical retreat,


from I think, from the sound barrage. Safe sailing, Giles tit


thank you very much. There's just time to put you out


of your misery and give John Mann, press that buzzer. Lets


see who it is. It is Stephen Collinson from


Hastings. Well done, you got the historic mug, which is no different


to any of the others. I'll be back tomorrow


with the Daily Politics at midday and then a special extended


edition of This Week. We'll be on until the small wee


hours of the morning to bring you the results


of the Tooting by-election. And for the benefit of those


who live in Tooting, a full list of candidates standing in that


by-election is on the screen now. You will each collect


a Michelin-starred chef. 'En route,


each chef will prepare a dish.'


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