15/06/2016 Daily Politics


15/06/2016

Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil present live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions and look at George Osborne's plan for an emergency post-referendum budget.


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George Osborne says he'll be forced to break his own manifesto promises

:00:36.:00:41.

if Britain votes to leave the EU next week, raising taxes

:00:42.:00:44.

But has the threat of a punishment budget backfired?

:00:45.:00:52.

The Chancellor's warning of further cuts and tax rises to come has

:00:53.:00:54.

sparked a major backlash among many Conservative MPs backing Leave,

:00:55.:00:59.

who say Project Fear has gone into hyperspace.

:01:00.:01:03.

Will those Conservatives show their frustrations at the final

:01:04.:01:06.

Prime Minister's Questions before the referendum, and how

:01:07.:01:08.

will Jeremy Corbyn respond to the threat of more austerity?

:01:09.:01:12.

We'll bring you all the action from the Commons live at midday.

:01:13.:01:16.

Philip Green has told a Commons committee he's sorry

:01:17.:01:19.

for the demise of BHS - but has the billionaire businessman

:01:20.:01:22.

done enough to convince sceptical MPs?

:01:23.:01:26.

And is Nigel Farage all at sea as he leads a flotilla of fishing

:01:27.:01:29.

boats up the Thames to Westminster in protest at EU fishing quotas?

:01:30.:01:46.

A nice day for sailing up the Thames! We could have done the

:01:47.:01:54.

programme from the back of the vote! Ann wrote

:01:55.:01:58.

of the programme today, two MPs who know a thing or two

:01:59.:02:05.

about drifting rudderless through choppy political waters -

:02:06.:02:07.

it's the Conservative minister, backing Remain, Ed Vaizey,

:02:08.:02:09.

and the Labour MP, backing Leave, John Mann.

:02:10.:02:11.

The referendum campaign feels tense, fraught, and perhaps

:02:12.:02:15.

Spooked by a tightening of the opinion polls,

:02:16.:02:18.

the Remain camp are hammering home their message on the economic

:02:19.:02:20.

impact of a vote to leave the EU with the promise of

:02:21.:02:23.

a gloomy emergency budget to follow soon after.

:02:24.:02:25.

It's gone down like a cup of cold sick among

:02:26.:02:28.

Leave, meanwhile, are still desperate to show they've got a plan

:02:29.:02:33.

for what the UK would look like after exiting the EU,

:02:34.:02:36.

even if they're not in the position to make promises, given they're

:02:37.:02:39.

So both sides today are claiming to have a pretty accurate vision

:02:40.:02:44.

of how events could unfold after the vote next Thursday -

:02:45.:02:49.

The Leave campaign has published a Queen's Speech-style "road map"

:02:50.:03:05.

to show how the UK could split from the EU by 2020.

:03:06.:03:11.

They claim new laws could be introduced to end the automatic

:03:12.:03:14.

right of all citizens to enter the UK

:03:15.:03:17.

And they predict a new EU-UK trade deal outside the single market

:03:18.:03:25.

They also say new laws could be introduced to

:03:26.:03:29.

cut VAT on energy bills and divert more funds to the NHS.

:03:30.:03:39.

so that the mysticism from the leave side but what are Remain seeing in

:03:40.:03:43.

the crystal ball? Chancellor George Osborne warns this

:03:44.:03:46.

morning his first priority after a Leave vote will be

:03:47.:03:48.

a new "Brexit budget". He's been joined by former

:03:49.:03:51.

Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling to say it would mean tax

:03:52.:03:53.

rises and spending cuts, to plug the ?30 billion black hole

:03:54.:03:56.

in the public finances that he says The Chancellors foresee there'd

:03:57.:03:59.

need to be a 2p rise And even protected budgets

:04:00.:04:10.

like the NHS, schools and defence But those warnings haven't gone down

:04:11.:04:14.

well with a growing number of Conservative MPs,

:04:15.:04:23.

who've signed a letter this morning saying

:04:24.:04:25.

they find it "incredible" the Chancellor is threatening

:04:26.:04:28.

to renege on his manifesto promises, and promising to vote

:04:29.:04:30.

down any such budget. This is what George Osborne had

:04:31.:04:34.

to say in the last 20 minutes. We're sharing a platform and arguing

:04:35.:04:48.

the same case for the first time. It is quite simple. We have both been

:04:49.:04:53.

Chancellor as the economy has faced very difficult times. We know what

:04:54.:05:00.

happens when you lose control of the economy. We've both had to deal with

:05:01.:05:04.

the consequences of the public finances collapsing and the

:05:05.:05:08.

difficult decisions that the country then has to take. And today we're

:05:09.:05:14.

here together because we agree on this - a vote to be the EU would do

:05:15.:05:21.

it to us all over again. That is the Chancellor George Osborne. Lets

:05:22.:05:23.

Victor one of the MPs who has not been overly impressed by Mr

:05:24.:05:27.

Osborne's warning. He is Jacob Rees-Mogg and he is in the central

:05:28.:05:30.

lobby of the House of commons. What is wrong with having an emergency

:05:31.:05:36.

budget? If there is a vote to leave, there will be big decisions to take.

:05:37.:05:38.

The Chancellor basically means to tick down and, regrettably, stop

:05:39.:05:43.

talking nonsense. If we vote to leave on Thursday week, there is a

:05:44.:05:46.

minimum two-year period in which we are still a member of the European

:05:47.:05:53.

Union. Article 50 takes time to be exercised so what he is doing in

:05:54.:05:57.

this hysterical suggestion of an emergency budget is ignoring the

:05:58.:06:02.

treaty provisions for an orderly departure of a member state. He

:06:03.:06:05.

really ought to read the treaty is more carefully and particularly an

:06:06.:06:09.

excellent report by the House of Lords European committee, which sets

:06:10.:06:13.

out how article 50 would work and underpins that the purpose of

:06:14.:06:17.

article 50 is to avoid an economic dislocation, both for the leaving

:06:18.:06:20.

state and, even more importantly from their point of view, from the

:06:21.:06:23.

point of view of other member states of the EU. But many on your site,

:06:24.:06:28.

for Leave, have stated that there could be a short-term shock. There

:06:29.:06:31.

could be instability and George Osborne is only saying that the

:06:32.:06:35.

Government would respond in the end of the Bob vote, which he and other

:06:36.:06:38.

economic institutions have predicted would lead to some sort of economic

:06:39.:06:43.

meltdown. The economic meltdown idea is a far-fetched one but what most

:06:44.:06:45.

of the commentators have said is that there may be some instability

:06:46.:06:49.

in currency markets but there is always instability in currency

:06:50.:06:54.

markets. This is par for the course in the financial system. No body

:06:55.:06:58.

would know the economic effects within a week or two of a vote to

:06:59.:07:03.

leave so an emergency budget is really indicating a degree of panic.

:07:04.:07:07.

It is a very silly thing to say, quite honestly, and for the

:07:08.:07:11.

Chancellor to jettison Conservative principles in favour of his euro for

:07:12.:07:14.

the seems to me desperate Leon Weiss. There was an emergency budget

:07:15.:07:19.

in 2010 to deal with the financial crisis so it isn't as if you have

:07:20.:07:24.

had emergency budgets before. In 2010 there was a new government that

:07:25.:07:27.

felt the different economic policy should be followed. That was the

:07:28.:07:32.

reason for the budget, same reason as a 1979, and in 1997, Gordon Brown

:07:33.:07:37.

had a budget when he came into office. When the governments change,

:07:38.:07:41.

the resort was a budget because economic policy changes. That's not

:07:42.:07:44.

an emergency, that's a matter of routine. So in terms of you and

:07:45.:07:49.

others signing to say that you would vote down that sort of budget, you

:07:50.:07:52.

are going to vote against your own government on something as critical

:07:53.:07:55.

as a budget? It is not my government, it is Her Majesty's but

:07:56.:07:59.

I am going to stick to the manifesto that I stood on which said that we

:08:00.:08:05.

would not raise tax. The economy is not going to react in the way he is

:08:06.:08:09.

saying. The forecasts are based on assumptions that no rational person

:08:10.:08:14.

would follow and the Treasury assumptions are ones that he's given

:08:15.:08:20.

away to an independent body, until he decided he needed to arrange the

:08:21.:08:23.

figures to suit his political argument. But you are prepared to

:08:24.:08:29.

basically vote down the budget are Conservative Government? I would

:08:30.:08:32.

vote against a budget that broke the Conservative Party's manifesto and a

:08:33.:08:39.

budget introduced out of spite to punish the British voters for not

:08:40.:08:41.

obeying the wisdom of George Osborne. It is the height of

:08:42.:08:46.

arrogance the week before a vote to say, if you don't do as I say and

:08:47.:08:50.

going to punish you. I think it is very damaging to George Osborne's

:08:51.:08:54.

credible as he is Chancellor. Do you think George Osborne should remain

:08:55.:08:57.

as Chancellor if the UK votes to leave the EU? It won't be a matter

:08:58.:09:01.

for me to dock but what do you think? Let's wait until we have the

:09:02.:09:07.

voted dock you been quite unspoken. He has done a lot of damage to his

:09:08.:09:10.

credible as it and will have a hard chance to repair it.

:09:11.:09:17.

Ed Vaizey, this is Mr Osborne's punishment budget if we vote to

:09:18.:09:20.

leave, and it is crashed and burned on take off. I donated the

:09:21.:09:24.

punishment budget. I think George Osborne is making a very important

:09:25.:09:27.

point, which is a point we have to get across, that we know there will

:09:28.:09:31.

be an economic shock if we weave the EU. Every credible analysis of the

:09:32.:09:36.

economy says there will be a significant impact on our economy.

:09:37.:09:43.

This is very serious stuff. How big would the Treasury save impact would

:09:44.:09:47.

be? George's budget proposal sets out the kind of changes you would

:09:48.:09:51.

have to see to fill that hole. How big does the Treasury say the impact

:09:52.:09:55.

would be in its short-term report? What was it central forecast? What

:09:56.:10:00.

the Institute of fiscal... I'm asking you about the Treasury

:10:01.:10:04.

because that is your Government's department. I am asking you about

:10:05.:10:07.

apples, you answer about oranges. What was the central forecast for

:10:08.:10:11.

recession in the Treasury's short-term report? What I'm telling

:10:12.:10:16.

you is that this budget George Osborne is setting up with Alistair

:10:17.:10:20.

Darling is based on the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimate, which

:10:21.:10:24.

was a ?20 billion to ?40 billion impact on the public finances and

:10:25.:10:27.

George is quite right to take the mid-range, 30 billion to dock there

:10:28.:10:31.

is to be a mid-range impact on the public finances. It would mean

:10:32.:10:35.

increased taxes and it would mean having to cut spending. The Treasury

:10:36.:10:44.

said it would go down by 0.4% over a year. Nobody wanted to go down,

:10:45.:10:48.

obviously, but why does a shallow recession, the shallowest since

:10:49.:10:54.

1956, of zero .4%, result in this massive measurement and tax rises

:10:55.:10:58.

and spending cuts amounting to ?30 billion? Explain that. You are using

:10:59.:11:04.

this word punishment. What George Osborne and Alistair Darling do,

:11:05.:11:07.

united together, the first time they have spoken together as one on a

:11:08.:11:10.

public platform, is to say there will be an impact on the public

:11:11.:11:13.

finances and when the Chancellor sees the impact on the public

:11:14.:11:16.

finances, he or she has to act and they have to make tough decisions

:11:17.:11:19.

and those tough decisions will include raising taxes or cutting

:11:20.:11:24.

spending. I was trying to work out why this response would be required,

:11:25.:11:27.

given how shallow the Treasury said the recession would be. In terms of

:11:28.:11:31.

the impact, you've seen Rolls-Royce today talking about the potential

:11:32.:11:37.

impact on one of our most successful Manufacturing completes. We've seen

:11:38.:11:40.

BT yesterday telling its 80,000 boys the kind of impact it would have.

:11:41.:11:45.

The real point is, you can bring up different surveys and say, what

:11:46.:11:48.

about this, what about that? The two key points are, everybody knows

:11:49.:11:53.

there will be an economic shock and George Osborne is saying, the second

:11:54.:11:56.

key point, is that means there will have to be an emergency budget, we

:11:57.:12:00.

will have to address levels of spending levels of taxes to get the

:12:01.:12:04.

budget by contract. How would you get that emergency budget through?

:12:05.:12:07.

There isn't a majority in the Commons for it. I haven't seen the

:12:08.:12:14.

names on the letter. 57 Conservative MPs described Mr Osborne's position

:12:15.:12:18.

as untenable. There is no majority in parliament for this budget,

:12:19.:12:21.

therefore the budget wouldn't get through. What George Osborne is

:12:22.:12:26.

saying is this is the kind of budget that you would have to expect if we

:12:27.:12:29.

beat. I think it is a perfectly valid thing for a Chancellor,

:12:30.:12:35.

somebody who has been Chancellor for six years. Unemployment fell again

:12:36.:12:41.

today. A lot of what George Osborne has done... Address my point. You

:12:42.:12:46.

only have a majority of under 16, at times it is under 12. 87 Tory MPs

:12:47.:12:52.

and rising regard this threat as untenable. They will not vote for

:12:53.:12:57.

it. -- 57. Labour is not going to vote for it, I assume, we will find

:12:58.:13:01.

out from John Mann. You will not get this budget through. It is an empty

:13:02.:13:06.

threat. It is not an empty threat. How would you get it through

:13:07.:13:12.

Parliament? After a Leave vote, if there is, God forbid, a Leave vote,

:13:13.:13:16.

Parliament would have to reconvene, the Chancellor will have to set out

:13:17.:13:19.

what he thinks the risks are going to be. He would be Chancellor, will

:13:20.:13:24.

he? There will have to be a budget proposed by the Chancellor. At that

:13:25.:13:28.

point, MPs will have to very much decide what their duty is. Is their

:13:29.:13:32.

duty to help get the economy back contract, given the economic

:13:33.:13:35.

shock... Could you explain the logic... Or is it simple to say, we

:13:36.:13:42.

are going to be a roadblock? Could you explain the economic logic, give

:13:43.:13:45.

me any major economist in the world who would then this was a response,

:13:46.:13:48.

that if we are heading to recession as a result of leaving, which is the

:13:49.:13:52.

Chancellor's scenario, we would go into recession, what is the economic

:13:53.:13:56.

logic is a recession stares us in the face at we raise tax and cut

:13:57.:14:04.

spending? As I said earlier, the Chancellor is someone who has Stuart

:14:05.:14:07.

did the public finances for the last six years. We see one of those

:14:08.:14:12.

results today with 20,000 fall in an employment. We've seen long-term

:14:13.:14:16.

unemployment fall significantly and that's because he did get the public

:14:17.:14:20.

finances... But what is the economic logic of raising taxes and cutting

:14:21.:14:22.

spending as we are heading into recession? He balanced the budget

:14:23.:14:27.

over the last six years, or at least significantly... Excuse me, he's

:14:28.:14:34.

balanced the budget? Significantly reduced our deficits because he had

:14:35.:14:37.

to raise some taxes and he had to cut... He slowed down the spending.

:14:38.:14:43.

Excuse me, Ed Vaizey. You may be rewriting the future, we won't know

:14:44.:14:46.

until we reach there, but you can't be allowed to rewrite the past. He

:14:47.:14:50.

actually slowed down the spending cuts because we were in such a

:14:51.:14:54.

situation and instead of balancing the budget by 2015, which was his

:14:55.:14:59.

promise, he gave us an ?80 billion deficit. So I ask again, can you

:15:00.:15:03.

name any credible economist, because Remain is very keen to quote

:15:04.:15:07.

mainstream economists, who would think that slashing spending and

:15:08.:15:12.

increasing tax would be a credible response to a recession? No doubt

:15:13.:15:15.

economists might pile in after this, as they piled on on this whole issue

:15:16.:15:19.

of whether we should leave the EU. And when I was last on this

:15:20.:15:23.

programme, you asked Kate Hoey to name any credible economist who

:15:24.:15:27.

could say that leaving the EU would be good for our economy. So you are

:15:28.:15:33.

bringing out Kate Hoey. I am asking you, can you name... I am asking

:15:34.:15:40.

you, can you name an economist that thinks this would be a... Don't try

:15:41.:15:45.

and filibuster. You did it earlier and it didn't go down too well. Just

:15:46.:15:50.

answer this question. Name and economist that thinks that Osborne's

:15:51.:15:53.

punishment budget would be the correct response.

:15:54.:15:57.

You know that when George took decisions about cutting spending and

:15:58.:16:05.

raising taxes, organisations like the IMF told him he was playing with

:16:06.:16:12.

fire. They came round and said what George Osborne did was correct. Let

:16:13.:16:17.

me see if I can get an answer to this question dash in a manifesto,

:16:18.:16:21.

you promised a referendum. He also promised more money for the NHS, you

:16:22.:16:28.

also promised not to raise VAT or income tax or national insurer and

:16:29.:16:32.

is. But you never anywhere said in the manifesto, but we can't keep any

:16:33.:16:38.

of these promises if you vote to leave in the referendum. So it was a

:16:39.:16:45.

false prospectus, wasn't it? The prospectus was to hold the

:16:46.:16:48.

referendum, which was a manifesto promise. I have said that. In the

:16:49.:16:53.

current state of our ability to manage the economy with the state it

:16:54.:16:59.

is in now with us as a member of the European Union and trading freely

:17:00.:17:03.

with the market of 500 million, we can do the things we have done. You

:17:04.:17:07.

never told us that, there is nowhere in the manifesto that all these

:17:08.:17:13.

major promises are predicated on as a voting, in your view, the right

:17:14.:17:19.

way on the referendum. There are issues in the manifesto you cannot

:17:20.:17:22.

foresee. David Cameron had to carry out his successful negotiation. It

:17:23.:17:28.

was in the manifesto. You promised a referendum. He has secured our

:17:29.:17:36.

vision for Britain in the European Union. Would anybody in the Remain

:17:37.:17:47.

vote for a budget like this post the referendum? It is not a proposed

:17:48.:17:52.

budget, it is a press stunned by George Osborne and rather silly one.

:17:53.:17:56.

John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor says, Labour would not

:17:57.:18:00.

vote, Labour would be against it, I would assume. I think we can take it

:18:01.:18:07.

for granted, the SNP would vote against it. Almost 60 Tory MPs are

:18:08.:18:13.

rising, would vote against it. It is a nonsense, Ed Vaizey. Sorry, I

:18:14.:18:19.

thought you are still asking John. How would you get it through? The

:18:20.:18:24.

Chancellor would come to the Commons after a vote to Leave, God forbid,

:18:25.:18:33.

people would see the impact on the economy and the Commons would have

:18:34.:18:38.

to take a view on whether it is important to get the budget back on

:18:39.:18:40.

track and the national finances back on track given the new and dangerous

:18:41.:18:46.

situation. John, why was Alistair Darling associating himself with

:18:47.:18:51.

this this morning? Desperation, last attempt to shore up the vote. I am

:18:52.:18:57.

hearing, even in Scotland, the vote in many constituencies may be going

:18:58.:19:02.

for Leave, even in Scotland. That would be a surprise. That is what I

:19:03.:19:09.

am hearing. Alistair Darling was not representing the Labour Party this

:19:10.:19:14.

morning, to your understanding? Clearly not, if it was someone

:19:15.:19:18.

representing the Labour Party, it would have been John McDonnell. So

:19:19.:19:21.

he was representing Alistair Darling? Yes, and his judgment on

:19:22.:19:26.

this is wrong. It is desperate politics trying to build up this

:19:27.:19:33.

project fear even more. It is not working, it is nonsense. It is

:19:34.:19:36.

almost a classic illustration of what nonsense it is. The Chancellor

:19:37.:19:42.

this morning on BBC, implied it was a consensus, and he used Alistair

:19:43.:19:50.

Darling's position that Labour and Conservative said the same thing. I

:19:51.:19:56.

am asking you, I know you don't want me to, but that is why I am

:19:57.:20:03.

continuing. I feel it is a bit unbalanced. You are the one that the

:20:04.:20:10.

questions to answer. He said we have a Labour Chancellor, Conservative

:20:11.:20:12.

Chancellor and it was a broad view of what we had to do. Now we hear

:20:13.:20:18.

from the Shadow Chancellor, we wouldn't vote for this. It has

:20:19.:20:22.

crashed and burned on take-off. He was standing with the Labour

:20:23.:20:26.

Chancellor in the last Labour government, when Labour used to win

:20:27.:20:30.

elections, who had to handle an economy in crisis following the

:20:31.:20:35.

banking crash. Alistair Darling is a credible figure who knows what it is

:20:36.:20:38.

like when you are facing an economic shock. He says, this is exactly...

:20:39.:20:48.

This is exactly what I would expect. I don't know what John McDonnell's

:20:49.:20:55.

position is. We have just been told. There is this peculiar mindset from

:20:56.:22:20.

Jeremy Corbyn where he won't share a platform

:22:21.:22:31.

There will be more money spent on the NHS if we leave. There was a

:22:32.:22:36.

consensus perhaps for the first time. Would be ?100 million over

:22:37.:22:43.

?350 million that vote the grating as the amount of money that is spent

:22:44.:22:48.

and sent to Brussels every week? It all depends who is in power and who

:22:49.:22:54.

makes the decision. What would you do? I would be looking to Spencer

:22:55.:23:00.

Gifford and sufficient money, which would be under 100 million, on

:23:01.:23:04.

putting money back into the NHS, getting into the hospital deficits,

:23:05.:23:07.

recruiting nurses, getting nurses bursaries, and adding moneyback

:23:08.:23:13.

international health service, would be my priority and if that money

:23:14.:23:16.

becomes available, that's what I would do. Or you think this is an

:23:17.:23:21.

alternative manifesto and they shouldn't be putting this board?

:23:22.:23:25.

Let's look at Labour on immigration because you have put a lot about

:23:26.:23:28.

immigration. It does look as if Labour is panicking as much as the

:23:29.:23:32.

Conservatives. We've had Tom Watson, the devil do bid, saying there would

:23:33.:23:36.

be moves, proposals, to curb the free movement of people. -- Tom

:23:37.:23:44.

Watson the Deputy Leader. Poor I called for it in the last

:23:45.:23:48.

Parliament. The problem is, you can't do it because the EU refuses.

:23:49.:23:57.

On whose authority is he saying it? Go but not the Labour Party because

:23:58.:24:00.

it is not what Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonell think. You would have

:24:01.:24:05.

to as Tom Watson. I'm not privy to their discussions but I agree with

:24:06.:24:08.

the principle of what Tom Watson and others have said. However, the

:24:09.:24:14.

problem with that is that the EU rules do not and I were to happen,

:24:15.:24:18.

so the issue for all of us is going to be, whatever the vote, what do we

:24:19.:24:24.

do afterwards on the Friday? And if it is the bob, we have that

:24:25.:24:29.

opportunity. Let's go straight over to the Commons to speak to the

:24:30.:24:34.

shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Seema Malhotra. Let me

:24:35.:24:40.

come to you straightaway. You have heard the Chancellor with what has

:24:41.:24:46.

been called a punishment budget. If we vote to leave and the Chancellor

:24:47.:24:49.

came forward with a budget like that, would Labour vote for it or

:24:50.:24:54.

not? Hello, Andrew. We have been very clear that we won't be

:24:55.:24:56.

supporting a budget that sees cuts to the NHS, cuts to working people's

:24:57.:25:03.

support. We don't believe that a Tory Brexit and then an emergency

:25:04.:25:09.

budget is going to give people the reassurance that there is going to

:25:10.:25:13.

be a brighter future at all with Brexit. What we are saying, and we

:25:14.:25:17.

are calling on people today, with our opposition day, to say that

:25:18.:25:22.

there is a brighter future if we stay in the EU. That is absolutely

:25:23.:25:27.

where we need to be. I understand that that is your position. Can I

:25:28.:25:32.

just clarify, because Alistair Darling, former Labour Chancellor,

:25:33.:25:38.

appeared with George Osborne as the outline of this post Brexit budget

:25:39.:25:43.

was announced. Can I take it that Mr Darling was not represented the

:25:44.:25:47.

Labour Party by being with Mr Osborne on that? Lube the context of

:25:48.:25:53.

this is very clear. This is the same warning that the IFF and others

:25:54.:25:56.

brought in, that there would be a hole in our budget... I asked you

:25:57.:26:01.

about Mr Darling. It would be nice to get announced that it was he

:26:02.:26:05.

speaking just for himself or did he in any way represent the Labour

:26:06.:26:08.

Party? He's talking in terms of how we would need to address, and the

:26:09.:26:13.

country would be to address, a hole in public funding finances. But what

:26:14.:26:18.

we've been saying is that we would not be voting for more cuts, so what

:26:19.:26:22.

we need to do, and the message that we want to give, is that if you want

:26:23.:26:26.

security and you want prosperity and you don't want to do self-inflicted

:26:27.:26:31.

damage to our economy... You said that. I've been trying to get an

:26:32.:26:36.

answer to my question. I'm not getting answers from Ed Vaizey and

:26:37.:26:40.

I'm not getting answers from you. So please give some respect our

:26:41.:26:43.

audience who are voting next Thursday and only ask you one more

:26:44.:26:47.

time, was Alistair Darling just being for himself by being alongside

:26:48.:26:50.

Osborne or did he represent the Labour Party? We have said very

:26:51.:26:56.

clearly, Andrew, and I'll just say this again... No, don't say it

:26:57.:27:00.

again, just answer the question. It is important that you answer the

:27:01.:27:05.

question. The context is a new. All right, well, you're not going to

:27:06.:27:09.

answer the question. I'm sorry, Seema Malhotra. I've had enough. You

:27:10.:27:13.

are not answering the question, so let's not waste our time with any

:27:14.:27:17.

more of this. Is it going to go on like this? When is the referendum?

:27:18.:27:21.

Next Thursday. Couldn't come soon enough!

:27:22.:27:25.

Now, today is our last PMQs programme

:27:26.:27:26.

and you might be wondering, what could have changed when we come

:27:27.:27:30.

Clearly not politicians answering the question.

:27:31.:27:33.

Will it still be David Cameron vs Jeremy Corbyn?

:27:34.:27:35.

Will the BBC still be able to afford the huge budget for JoCo's graphics?

:27:36.:27:40.

Will Ed Vaizey be here in the studio...again?

:27:41.:27:44.

I keep coming back for this punishment! It is like a Russian

:27:45.:27:55.

doll. If you just answer the questions, I wouldn't need to be

:27:56.:27:56.

rude. Well, you can be sure there's one

:27:57.:27:57.

thing that will stay the same regardless of whether we vote

:27:58.:28:03.

to leave or remain - And that's because we've got a job

:28:04.:28:09.

lot of them stacked in boxes So if you want to be

:28:10.:28:14.

in with the chance of winning this historic mug, which is actually just

:28:15.:28:24.

the same as all the others, all you have to do is tell us

:28:25.:28:27.

when this happened. For South Africans to trade together

:28:28.:28:35.

to celebrate the birth of democracy. We've been praying long

:28:36.:28:47.

enough for it, haven't we? To be in with a chance of winning

:28:48.:28:53.

a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz

:28:54.:29:59.

email address: Entries must arrive by 12:30pm today

:30:00.:30:08.

and you can see the full terms and conditions on our website.

:30:09.:30:17.

It's coming up to midday. It is a beautiful summer's des. There won't

:30:18.:30:24.

be a Primus is questions next week because of a referendum. Laura

:30:25.:30:27.

Coombs Boadicea. I would suggest that a normal PMQs, the Labour

:30:28.:30:30.

leader would stand up and say, if the Chancellor things he can do this

:30:31.:30:33.

kind of budget rose Brexit, he's got another thing coming, but can Mr

:30:34.:30:37.

Corbyn do that, since he is nominally on the Remain site? I'm

:30:38.:30:42.

not sure. I think there is something else there because we know that

:30:43.:30:44.

Jeremy Corbyn often want to do his own subjects! They're already under

:30:45.:30:46.

way. We will come back to you. I know the whole house will join

:30:47.:31:01.

with me incentive condolences to the family and friends of those killed

:31:02.:31:06.

in the in Orlando on Sunday. This attack, along with the callous

:31:07.:31:09.

murder of a French policeman on Monday, is a stark remind of the

:31:10.:31:13.

challenge we face to defeat the poisonous ideology of Daesh both

:31:14.:31:17.

online and on our streets. I believe that together with our friends, our

:31:18.:31:20.

allies and our common values, we will prevail. This morning I had

:31:21.:31:26.

meetings with ministerial colleagues and added just two duties in this

:31:27.:31:29.

House, I shall have further such meetings later today. Thank you, Mr

:31:30.:31:33.

Speaker. I share the Prime Minister's sentiments in the Sabet

:31:34.:31:37.

is expressed to the victims, families and friends of those in

:31:38.:31:42.

Orlando. The Australian parent company of a United Kingdom company

:31:43.:31:49.

who see Europe as a major market expansion have put on hold their

:31:50.:31:51.

plans to build a factory in the enterprise zone on the South

:31:52.:31:55.

Lowestoft industrial estate. Lowestoft has enormous potential as

:31:56.:31:58.

a centre for serving the European maritime market but does the Prime

:31:59.:32:04.

Minister share my concern that this opportunity would unnecessarily be

:32:05.:32:08.

placed at risk if the UK beats the EU? -- leaves. I share his concern.

:32:09.:32:17.

I well remember visiting his constituency and seeing what a

:32:18.:32:18.

thriving business location Lowestoft is. He is right that many companies

:32:19.:32:23.

come to Britain and invest in Britain for many reasons but one of

:32:24.:32:27.

the most important is access to the single market of 500 million

:32:28.:32:31.

customers. Next week we have the opportunity to put our place in that

:32:32.:32:34.

single market beyond doubt and I hope that we wake up on June 24

:32:35.:32:38.

knowing that businesses are going to invest more in our country, create

:32:39.:32:42.

more jobs in our country, see more growth in our country, because that

:32:43.:32:46.

will help the families of our country and the unemployment figures

:32:47.:32:50.

today, another welcome fall in unemployment, we could see continued

:32:51.:32:52.

progress. Lets see our country moving forward. I concur and join

:32:53.:32:59.

with the Prime Minister in his remarks about the terrible deaths in

:33:00.:33:04.

Orlando. On Monday I joined a vigil of thousands of LGBT people in Soho

:33:05.:33:09.

in London to mourn the deaths of the 49 and also I want to say, we say

:33:10.:33:13.

thank you to all those all over this country who attended vigils on

:33:14.:33:16.

Monday night to show their concern and their horror about it. Quite

:33:17.:33:20.

simply, we defeat such atrocities through our love and our solidarity

:33:21.:33:24.

and we need to send that message out. Three years ago, there was a

:33:25.:33:29.

cross-party agreement for the lamentation of section 40 of the

:33:30.:33:34.

Crime and Courts Bill and to proceed with Leveson to once prosecutors

:33:35.:33:38.

were concluded. The Prime Minister will be aware that today there is a

:33:39.:33:42.

lobby of Parliament by the victims of phone hacking. The Prime Minister

:33:43.:33:45.

said a few years ago that we all did too much cosying up to Rupert

:33:46.:33:50.

Murdoch. Some of his Tory Brexit colleagues are certainly cosying up

:33:51.:33:54.

to Rupert Murdoch at the moment but will the Prime Minister give a

:33:55.:33:57.

commitment today that he will meet the victims of press intrusion and

:33:58.:34:01.

assure them that he will keep his promise on this? Let me again echo

:34:02.:34:06.

what he said about the Orlando bombings. In terms of the Leveson

:34:07.:34:13.

issue, we said that we'd make a decision about a second stage of

:34:14.:34:17.

this inquiry once the criminal investigations and prosecutions were

:34:18.:34:20.

out of the weighted top they are still continuing and so that is the

:34:21.:34:26.

situation. -- out of the way. I have met with victims of press intrusion

:34:27.:34:30.

and I'm happy to do so again. I think people can accuse me of many

:34:31.:34:33.

things but cosying up to Rupert Murdoch is not one of them. My

:34:34.:34:38.

question was, will he meet the victims of phone hacking? I hope you

:34:39.:34:42.

will because they deserve it anti-bra missed that he would meet

:34:43.:34:47.

them. A major thunder of the Leave campaign said, and I quote, "If it

:34:48.:34:52.

were up to me, I'd privatise the National Health Service". The

:34:53.:34:58.

honourable member for Uxbridge said, "If people have to pay for NHS

:34:59.:35:02.

services they will value them all". Both he and the honourable member

:35:03.:35:07.

for Surrey Heath are members of a government that has put the NHS into

:35:08.:35:12.

record deficit. These people are now masquerading as the saviours of the

:35:13.:35:20.

NHS. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Did the honourable member for Totnes get

:35:21.:35:24.

it right when she rejected the duplicity of this argument in the

:35:25.:35:27.

Leave campaign and decided to join the Remain campaign? I was delighted

:35:28.:35:35.

with what my right honourable... My honourable friend, the Member for

:35:36.:35:38.

Totnes, said about changing her mind, which is a brave thing for

:35:39.:35:42.

politicians to do, and saying that she thought that the NHS would be

:35:43.:35:46.

safer if we remain inside a reformed EU. I believe that very profoundly,

:35:47.:35:52.

because the key to a strong NHS is a strong economy and I think there

:35:53.:35:55.

can't be any doubt that nine out of ten economists, the governor of the

:35:56.:36:00.

Bank of England, the IMF, the OECD, all of these other organisations,

:36:01.:36:03.

saying our economy will be stronger and it is a strong economy that

:36:04.:36:09.

delivers a strong NHS. Last week, the Prime Minister gave a welcome

:36:10.:36:13.

commitment to the closing of the loophole in the posting of workers

:36:14.:36:18.

directive. We will hold him to that but we are concerned about the

:36:19.:36:22.

exploitation of migrant workers and the undercutting of wages in this

:36:23.:36:27.

country as a result of that. On that issue, will the Prime Minister today

:36:28.:36:32.

commit to the outlawing of the practice of agencies that only

:36:33.:36:35.

advertise abroad for jobs that are in reality jobs in this country?

:36:36.:36:41.

First of all, he and I absolutely agree about the evils of Modern

:36:42.:36:45.

Slavery Bill that is why this government passed the Modern Slavery

:36:46.:36:47.

Bill with all-party support. We've doubled the fines that can be put on

:36:48.:36:51.

companies for exploiting labour in this way and we have strengthened

:36:52.:36:54.

the gang masters licensing authority and they have commenced and carried

:36:55.:36:59.

out a number of prosecutions, including in the eastern and, where

:37:00.:37:03.

I was yesterday, and so we continue to take action on every level to

:37:04.:37:07.

make sure people are paid their wages they should be paid and that

:37:08.:37:10.

protections are there on the minimum wage and now on a national living

:37:11.:37:16.

wage. -- including in the East of England. I think all of those are

:37:17.:37:20.

vital and we will continue with those measures. I think people are

:37:21.:37:23.

entitled to a fair day's pay for a fair day's what. My question was

:37:24.:37:27.

about outlawing the practice of advertising by agencies only in

:37:28.:37:31.

other countries. Tens of thousands of EU and other people who have

:37:32.:37:35.

migrated to Britain work in our public services and do a fantastic

:37:36.:37:39.

job. Many people in Britain are also concerned about immigration and

:37:40.:37:43.

their local communities. Surely what communities need is practical

:37:44.:37:47.

solutions like the migrant impact fund set up by Gordon Brown when he

:37:48.:37:51.

was Prime Minister to deal with the extra pressure on housing, schools

:37:52.:37:55.

and hospitals. Will the Prime Minister now

:37:56.:37:56.

concede that it was a mistake to abolish that fund and will he work

:37:57.:38:03.

with us to reinstate it as a matter of urgency, to give support to those

:38:04.:38:08.

communities that are facing problems on school places and doctors'

:38:09.:38:12.

surgeries? He is absolutely right. In answer to the question about

:38:13.:38:18.

employment agencies that only advertise for overseas workers, we

:38:19.:38:22.

are looking at Battersea if we can ban that practice because we don't

:38:23.:38:26.

believe that is right. Of course, the answer to so many of these

:38:27.:38:30.

questions is actually to make sure we are training, educating and

:38:31.:38:36.

employing British people and getting member qualifications they need to

:38:37.:38:39.

take on the jobs that are economy is creating an today's unemployment

:38:40.:38:43.

figures are another reminder that. In terms of funds to help

:38:44.:38:46.

communities impacted by migration, we have a pledge in our manifesto,

:38:47.:38:50.

which we are looking forward to bringing forward, with a controlled

:38:51.:38:54.

migration fun to make sure we put money into communities where there

:38:55.:38:58.

are pressures because, of course, there are some pressures and we do

:38:59.:39:01.

need to address them and I'm happy that we will be able to work on a

:39:02.:39:04.

cross-party basis to do that it cos I've said many times, there are good

:39:05.:39:08.

ways of controlling migration and one of them is the rules we are

:39:09.:39:11.

bringing in so people don't get instant access to our welfare

:39:12.:39:15.

system, but there are bad ways of controlling immigration. Leaving the

:39:16.:39:18.

single market and wrecking our economy is certainly one of them.

:39:19.:39:24.

Today, a flotilla of boats is due to come along the Thames complaining

:39:25.:39:31.

fishing quotas are not going to the UK domestic fleet. My have not seen

:39:32.:39:36.

them yet, but presumably they are on their way. The Prime Minister will

:39:37.:39:40.

be aware that reforms made three years ago put the power back into

:39:41.:39:46.

the hands of member states and it is the UK Government that has given

:39:47.:39:51.

nearly two thirds of the English and Welsh fishing quotas to just three

:39:52.:39:55.

companies, excluding small fishing communities along the coasts. Can

:39:56.:39:59.

the Prime Minister stop blaming Brussels on this and tell our

:40:00.:40:05.

fishing communities what action he will take to allow them to continue

:40:06.:40:09.

their work and go further out in collect Kingfish? First of all, can

:40:10.:40:17.

I thank him for the reforms we carried through in the last

:40:18.:40:20.

Parliament and the honourable member was crucial in delivering those

:40:21.:40:26.

changes. What we have seen in the last five years is an increase in

:40:27.:40:30.

the value of the UK fishing industry of something like 20%. We export

:40:31.:40:37.

every year about one billion pounds worth of fish to the EU and there is

:40:38.:40:40.

no country in the world that has a trade agreement with the EU that

:40:41.:40:44.

doesn't involve tariffs, taxes on the sale of its fish. There is no

:40:45.:40:50.

way we would get a better deal on the outside than the deal we get on

:40:51.:40:55.

the outside. So working with fishing communities, working with fishermen

:40:56.:40:57.

and keeping the market open and make sure we manage our fish stocks

:40:58.:41:02.

locally and appropriately is part of our plan. His government still

:41:03.:41:08.

handed quotas over to three very large companies at the expense of

:41:09.:41:13.

small communities around Britain, I hope he reflects on that. Mr

:41:14.:41:18.

Speaker, with eight days to go before the referendum, the Labour

:41:19.:41:22.

position is, we will be voting to remain because it is the best way to

:41:23.:41:28.

protect families, protect jobs and protect public services. We would

:41:29.:41:33.

oppose any posed Brexit austerity budget, just as we have opposed any

:41:34.:41:39.

austerity budget put forward by this government. Will the Prime Minister

:41:40.:41:43.

take this opportunity to condemn the opportunism of 57 of his colleagues,

:41:44.:41:49.

who are pro-Leave, these are members who backed the bedroom tax, backed

:41:50.:41:55.

cutting disability benefits and cutting care for the elderly, who

:41:56.:41:59.

suddenly have now had a conversion to the anti-austerity movement. Does

:42:00.:42:05.

he have any message for them, does he have any message for them at all?

:42:06.:42:09.

What I would say to the right honourable gentleman, there are very

:42:10.:42:15.

few times when he and I are on the same side of an argument. This must

:42:16.:42:20.

say to people watching at home, when you have the leader of the Labour

:42:21.:42:25.

Party and almost all of the Labour Party, Conservative Government, the

:42:26.:42:29.

Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Ulster Unionists and the Scottish

:42:30.:42:33.

National Party old saying, we have huge disagreements, but on this

:42:34.:42:38.

vital issue, the best option for Britain is to vote to remain in a

:42:39.:42:42.

reformed European union, really says something. This is a huge choice for

:42:43.:42:46.

our country, choices have consequences. If we wake up on June

:42:47.:42:53.

the 24th and we have remained in, the economy can move forward. If we

:42:54.:43:00.

vote out, experts warn as we have a small economy, lesser wages and less

:43:01.:43:03.

tax receipts. That is why we would have to do have measures to address

:43:04.:43:08.

a huge hole in our public finances. Nobody wants to have an emergency

:43:09.:43:13.

budget, nobody wants to have cuts in public services. Nobody wants to

:43:14.:43:17.

have tax increases. But there is only one thing worse than not

:43:18.:43:22.

addressing a crisis in your public finances through a budget, and that

:43:23.:43:28.

is ignoring it. If you ignore a crisis, you see your economy go into

:43:29.:43:33.

a tailspin, confidence is reduced in the country. We can avoid all of

:43:34.:43:41.

this I voting Remain next week. Having recently undertaken a real

:43:42.:43:49.

I'll tour of my constituency, and Sam told -- sampled some of the

:43:50.:44:04.

nicest ales in the north, can I ask the Prime Minister to join me in

:44:05.:44:09.

nodding to the virtues and massive benefits to the economies from small

:44:10.:44:13.

and medium-size breweries from up and the country? Happy to agree with

:44:14.:44:18.

my honourable friend, having spent last weekend in Kent and yesterday

:44:19.:44:24.

in Bury St Edmunds, I agree a large quantity of real ale is one of the

:44:25.:44:29.

best ways to get through this gruelling referendum campaign. The

:44:30.:44:33.

British beer industry is in good health because of the duty cuts from

:44:34.:44:36.

the Chancellor, because of the microbe Ruhe tax regime. We have a

:44:37.:44:44.

lot of craft beer coming through and the brewers I am talking to and

:44:45.:44:48.

going to see, they want the single market open and they want to remain

:44:49.:44:57.

in. On Orlando and the deaths in France, we aren't these benches join

:44:58.:45:02.

with the condolences expressed by the Prime Minister and the Leader of

:45:03.:45:06.

the Opposition. We are now only a week away from the biggest question

:45:07.:45:11.

the UK has faced in a long time, and that is the continuing membership of

:45:12.:45:16.

the European Union. Exports, goods and services from the Scottish

:45:17.:45:20.

economy are massive important. Hundreds and thousands of jobs

:45:21.:45:25.

depend on them. Meanwhile, public services, including the NHS are

:45:26.:45:28.

supported by many hard-working people buy elsewhere in the European

:45:29.:45:34.

Union. Does the Prime Minister agree, if we want to protect jobs,

:45:35.:45:38.

public services, we must vote to remain in the European Union gesture

:45:39.:45:46.

Mark I do believe the most important arguments is about the future of our

:45:47.:45:51.

economy. It seems obvious you can listen to the experts or make a

:45:52.:45:55.

common-sense argument. Today we have access to a market of 500 million

:45:56.:46:00.

people. For an economy like Scotland, such a big exporting

:46:01.:46:03.

economy, there is no way we would get a better deal with the single

:46:04.:46:08.

market on the outside than we get on the inside. If we left we would seek

:46:09.:46:12.

our economy suffer, jobs suffer, livelihood suffer. It is plain

:46:13.:46:17.

common sense. I agree with him, for jobs and livelihoods, we should

:46:18.:46:22.

remain in. There is a consequence the public finances, if our economy

:46:23.:46:25.

is doing less well, public finances would be doing less well and that

:46:26.:46:28.

would have consequences for Scotland. Make a raise that with the

:46:29.:46:36.

Prime Minister? We have learned from a Conservative Chancellor of the

:46:37.:46:38.

Exchequer and a former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer, there

:46:39.:46:44.

would be likely to be 30 billion pounds in cuts to public services or

:46:45.:46:49.

tax rises, where there to be a Brexit vote. What impact would that

:46:50.:46:55.

have on public services in Scotland? Please, can we learn now before we

:46:56.:47:01.

vote? What impact would it have on the budget in Scotland that pays for

:47:02.:47:07.

the NHS in Scotland, schools in Scotland, local government and key

:47:08.:47:10.

public services. Is it not another reason why we must vote to remain in

:47:11.:47:18.

the European Union? What I would say to the right honourable gentleman,

:47:19.:47:21.

these figures are not based on what the Chancellor of the Exchequer is

:47:22.:47:26.

saying, they are based on what the Institute for Fiscal Studies is

:47:27.:47:32.

saying. They are talking about at 20 to 40 billion hole in our public

:47:33.:47:36.

finances if regs it went ahead. These are organisations quoted in

:47:37.:47:43.

this House against the government because they are respected for their

:47:44.:47:47.

independence. Decisions to cut public spending in the UK budget do

:47:48.:47:54.

have an impact on Scotland. And to anyone who says, these warnings of

:47:55.:47:57.

course, they could be wrong, they could be inaccurate, this is an

:47:58.:48:02.

uncomfortable point to make to the right honourable gentleman, of

:48:03.:48:06.

course there were warnings about the oil price before the Scottish

:48:07.:48:09.

referendum. It turned out to be worse than the experts warned. Thank

:48:10.:48:19.

you Mr Speaker. Since the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, many

:48:20.:48:23.

of my constituents are worried that remaining in the EU increases the

:48:24.:48:29.

risk of terrorism. Fear is exacerbated by the disgraceful

:48:30.:48:32.

comments of people like Nigel Farage. Does my right honourable

:48:33.:48:37.

friend agree, security services are helped by the EU and not hindered? I

:48:38.:48:42.

would say directly to my honourable friend, I have done this job for six

:48:43.:48:48.

years, working with the Home Secretary, I have seen how closely

:48:49.:48:51.

our intelligence and security services work with other services

:48:52.:48:56.

around the world. Of course we keep ourselves safe by investing in

:48:57.:49:00.

anti-terrorism policing and keep ourselves safe by working with the

:49:01.:49:03.

Americans and the partnership. I am in no doubt increasing extent of

:49:04.:49:09.

intelligence exchange that takes place through the EU is of direct

:49:10.:49:15.

benefit. It is not just you need a border, you need information and

:49:16.:49:18.

intelligence to police the border properly. We are seeing an enormous

:49:19.:49:24.

amount of exchange about criminal records, passenger name records.

:49:25.:49:28.

Outside the EU we can try and negotiate our way back into these

:49:29.:49:34.

agreements, but right now we are in them and we are driving them.

:49:35.:49:40.

Knowsley is expected to receive ?10 million in EU funding over the next

:49:41.:49:44.

three years. EU funding has helped attract his Mrs to the borough like

:49:45.:49:52.

QVC which created 2500 jobs. Isn't it the case of this important

:49:53.:49:56.

funding from the EU could be lost if we vote to leave the European Union?

:49:57.:50:01.

The honourable gentleman makes an important point. Which is, if you

:50:02.:50:07.

look at these independent, economic reports, they said there is no

:50:08.:50:10.

financial saving from leaving the EU. The Institute for Fiscal Studies

:50:11.:50:17.

said, we can include leaving the EU would not leave more money to spend

:50:18.:50:21.

on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services or

:50:22.:50:25.

taxing more or borrowing more. I would argue there is a big dividend

:50:26.:50:29.

from remaining inside the EU and we will start to feel it next Friday as

:50:30.:50:34.

companies could see Britain have made a decision and job creators and

:50:35.:50:38.

international investors would know Britain meant business and they

:50:39.:50:43.

would be investing in our country, but there is no interest in leaving.

:50:44.:50:55.

The number of working households has declined since 2010, will he focus

:50:56.:51:02.

on more jobs and a growing economy? The most important thing we can do

:51:03.:51:06.

for parents in our country is to help them get a job, earn a living

:51:07.:51:11.

and provide for their family. In our life chances strategy, measuring

:51:12.:51:16.

worthlessness and school attainment are important in helping to ensure

:51:17.:51:20.

we continue to help lift children out of poverty. Mr Speaker, two

:51:21.:51:34.

German men run businesses in Scotland, but they cannot vote next

:51:35.:51:40.

week. They leave for France on Sunday and are considering leaving

:51:41.:51:43.

permanently if we exit the EU. Will the Prime Minister join my call for

:51:44.:51:49.

them and others in a similar situation to stay, as they are

:51:50.:51:54.

highly valued? There are many people who come to this country, work hard

:51:55.:52:00.

and make a contribution and help to build communities. It is important

:52:01.:52:05.

to get the numbers into the spec. 5% of the population are EU nationals,

:52:06.:52:10.

Italians, Germans, Polish and the rest of it. Only five people in the

:52:11.:52:17.

street will be EU nationals. Look at our NHS, 50,000 EU nationals, care

:52:18.:52:24.

homes, 60,000 EU nationals helping to look after elderly relatives with

:52:25.:52:28.

dementia and other conditions as they come to the end of their life.

:52:29.:52:32.

We do need to make sure people who come here are working and making a

:52:33.:52:37.

contribution, but we should celebrate the contribution they

:52:38.:52:45.

make. Given the government's recent enthusiasm for making forecasts and

:52:46.:52:49.

predictions, can the Prime Minister please tell the House, in which year

:52:50.:52:56.

will we meet our manifesto commitment to reduce immigration to

:52:57.:53:01.

the tens of thousands? At the last year for which EU migration was in

:53:02.:53:07.

Allen 's, the number of EU nationals and British nationals leaving our

:53:08.:53:10.

shores to work in Europe and the number of EU nationals coming to

:53:11.:53:14.

live and work here, the last year that was in balance was 2008. I

:53:15.:53:19.

would say to my honourable friend, yes, we need to do more to control

:53:20.:53:23.

migration from outside the EU, and we are doing that with the closure

:53:24.:53:27.

of bogus colleges and other measures. We are doing more inside

:53:28.:53:31.

the EU, not least saying people who come here, if they don't get a job

:53:32.:53:39.

after six months, they have to leave. If they were, they have to

:53:40.:53:42.

contribute for four years before they get full access to the welfare

:53:43.:53:45.

system. Those are big changes and sensible ways of controlling

:53:46.:53:48.

immigration. A nonsense of always pulling out of the single market,

:53:49.:53:51.

damaging jobs and damaging the economy and having to explain to our

:53:52.:53:56.

constituents why we have self impose a recession on our economy. Many

:53:57.:54:02.

from my constituency of Swansea are struggling to make ends meet. The

:54:03.:54:05.

World Trade Organisation say if we leave the EU, we could face a major

:54:06.:54:11.

tariffs on trade. We would have to re-negotiate over 160 trade

:54:12.:54:16.

agreements. Does the Prime Minister agree with me, leaving the EU would

:54:17.:54:21.

hit hard-working families the most, raising the cost of living and it is

:54:22.:54:27.

to take a risk to take? The honourable lady is right. It is

:54:28.:54:32.

always the poorest who will get hit hardest if an economy suffers a

:54:33.:54:35.

recession. There are two ways the cost of living can be impacted. If

:54:36.:54:42.

we lead the single market, go to WTO rules, we would have tariffs imposed

:54:43.:54:47.

on the goods they sell to Europe. But also if the pound was to fall,

:54:48.:54:51.

which many independent experts forecast, the cost of living rises,

:54:52.:54:56.

shopping rises, the cost of holidays rises. It is not worth the risk, we

:54:57.:55:00.

should not risk it, we should keep our country safe. Following the

:55:01.:55:09.

Chancellor's welcome announcement to launch the new Thames Estuary 2050

:55:10.:55:14.

growth commission, could the Prime Minister outline his hopes for how

:55:15.:55:19.

the commission's focus will deliver the infrastructure and economic

:55:20.:55:22.

development that will allow North Kent to prosper, including my

:55:23.:55:29.

wonderful constituency of Rochester? Always, whenever I get a question

:55:30.:55:34.

from my honourable friend, I remember how grateful I am she is

:55:35.:55:37.

sitting for Rochester and Strood. Happy days. In terms of the 2050

:55:38.:55:47.

growth commission, the key areas are skills and infrastructure. There is

:55:48.:55:50.

a serious amount of money being committed to the infrastructure and

:55:51.:55:53.

we do need to look at things, including the lower Thames crossing,

:55:54.:55:57.

to make sure the economy in that region can make the most of its

:55:58.:56:05.

potential. 2500 people are employed in the ceramics industry in my

:56:06.:56:09.

constituency. Their jobs are dependent on EU trades and rights

:56:10.:56:13.

are protected by the EU social chapter and their town centres have

:56:14.:56:18.

been rebuilt with EU funds. With his friends in the Leave campaign

:56:19.:56:21.

producing more spin than a potter's wheel... Does the Prime Minister

:56:22.:56:32.

share my fear is that this by your's floors, a Brexit vote can leave is

:56:33.:56:40.

picking up the pieces of a broken economy the years to come. I am

:56:41.:56:46.

going to pinch that sound bite. The honourable lady is right, if we lead

:56:47.:56:50.

the single market and the European Union, the council president has

:56:51.:56:53.

said, the process probably takes two years. After that you have to

:56:54.:56:58.

negotiate a trade deal with the European Union. If it is a trade

:56:59.:57:01.

deal like Canada, it could take seven years. We are looking at a

:57:02.:57:06.

decade of uncertainty for the economy. On the ceramic industry, I

:57:07.:57:13.

am advised by my Parliamentary Private Secretary, who did do a

:57:14.:57:16.

worthwhile job of working in that industry before coming here... He

:57:17.:57:24.

may not be spinning wheels any more, but spinning for me very

:57:25.:57:28.

effectively! We exported billions of porcelain soup China and the EU and

:57:29.:57:35.

if we were outside the EU, there would be a 12% tax. I don't want us

:57:36.:57:42.

to hit British manufactures, car-makers, aeroplane makers, we

:57:43.:57:45.

should be investing in those industries and helping them support

:57:46.:57:48.

and not making the situation more difficult, which is what regs it

:57:49.:57:54.

would do. 30 years ago when I was a lad, my parents quit their jobs...

:57:55.:58:07.

30 years ago my parents quit their jobs and they founded a small

:58:08.:58:11.

manufacturing business around our kitchen table. Today, British

:58:12.:58:16.

manufacturers, particularly small businesses are worried. They are

:58:17.:58:20.

worried because if we leave the European Union, they will continue

:58:21.:58:25.

to make their products to common European standards. Because they

:58:26.:58:29.

value the free market. They value the single market and they value the

:58:30.:58:35.

export. They are aware the United Kingdom will have no say whatsoever

:58:36.:58:40.

in the formulation of those standards. And their competitive

:58:41.:58:44.

advantage will be destroyed. What advice does my right honourable

:58:45.:58:49.

friend have for my parents, for small businesses and for the

:58:50.:58:52.

millions of jobs that depends on them across the country washed your

:58:53.:59:00.

mark I always assumed my honourable friend was under 30, so I am

:59:01.:59:05.

shocked. But he makes an important point, if we were to leave we lose

:59:06.:59:09.

the seat around the table that sets the rules of the single market.

:59:10.:59:13.

Sometimes those rules can be annoying or burdensome, but they are

:59:14.:59:18.

the rules we have two meet. If you leave and you have no say over those

:59:19.:59:25.

rules, you'd don't gain control, you lose control. It is a crucial

:59:26.:59:30.

argument why the majority of small businesses back staying in EU, as

:59:31.:59:31.

well as a lot of larger as this is. That I endorse the comments and

:59:32.:59:46.

associate the SCOP about Paris and Orlando. Ironed assure the Prime

:59:47.:59:54.

Minister that the SDLP is behind him and his efforts to ensure a Remain

:59:55.:59:59.

vote but the Brexit campaigners have made our borders their resounding

:00:00.:00:08.

war cry and will when it comes to the only land border between the UK

:00:09.:00:13.

and the EU, we're told nothing will change. A critical economic change

:00:14.:00:18.

for Northern Ireland's voters in eight days... Camber primers to

:00:19.:00:23.

clarify this point and tell the people of Northern Ireland, what

:00:24.:00:26.

will become of the border if the UK votes to leave the EU? I thank him

:00:27.:00:32.

for his remarks about the Orlando shootings but on this issue, if we

:00:33.:00:37.

vote to stay in, we know what the situation is. We know that the

:00:38.:00:41.

Common travel area works, we know it can continue and everyone can have

:00:42.:00:45.

confidence in that. If we were to leave, and as the Leave campaigners

:00:46.:00:49.

want, make a big issue about our borders, then you've got a land

:00:50.:00:52.

border between Britain outside the EU and the Republic of Ireland

:00:53.:00:57.

inside the EU. And therefore you can only either have new border controls

:00:58.:01:02.

between the Republic and Northern Ireland or, which I would regret

:01:03.:01:05.

usually, you would have to have some sort of checks on people as they

:01:06.:01:09.

left Belfast or other parts of Northern Ireland to come to the rest

:01:10.:01:14.

of the United Kingdom. We can avoid these risks. There are so many risks

:01:15.:01:18.

here, risks to our children's jobs, risks Tony Hibbert in future, risks

:01:19.:01:21.

to our borders, risks to the unity of the UK. -- risks to our

:01:22.:01:28.

children's fugitive top I say avoid the risks and vowed to remain in the

:01:29.:01:33.

EU. Next week I will be visiting schools in my constituency to

:01:34.:01:36.

explain both sides of the EU argument to those who will be most

:01:37.:01:42.

heavily affected by a decision they cannot make. Does the Prime Minister

:01:43.:01:45.

have any words for these people for the Remain segment? I am grateful

:01:46.:01:49.

for his hard work. This is about that even if those people in those

:01:50.:01:53.

schools aren't able to vote, will affect their futures, and I hope

:01:54.:01:57.

they will talk to their parents and grandparents after being inspired by

:01:58.:02:00.

my honourable friend about wanting to grow up in a country with

:02:01.:02:05.

opportunity. We're bound to have more opportunity if we remain in a

:02:06.:02:09.

reformed EU with 27 other countries. I also think it goes to a point

:02:10.:02:13.

about what sort of country want our children to grow up in, not just one

:02:14.:02:17.

of economic and job of that unity is but one where our country is able to

:02:18.:02:21.

effect change and get things done in the world. We don't diminish

:02:22.:02:25.

ourselves inside the EU, we enhance the power of Britain and the

:02:26.:02:31.

greatness of our country. Old Bob Approximately 11,000 Marks Spencer

:02:32.:02:39.

is employees, many with more than 14 years' service, are about to get a

:02:40.:02:44.

serious pay cut. Cuts to Sunday pay, bank holiday and anti-social hours

:02:45.:02:49.

pay, all made on the back of the national living wage, means they

:02:50.:02:53.

will take home less next year than they do this year, with some losing

:02:54.:02:58.

up to ?2000. This is not just any pay cut, this is a big, fat Marks

:02:59.:03:04.

and Spencer pay cut. Does the Prime Minister agree with his Chancellor

:03:05.:03:08.

that cutting take home pay at M or anywhere else on the back of the

:03:09.:03:12.

national living wage is wrong and, if so, will he moved to close the

:03:13.:03:18.

loopholes that make this possible? Obviously, we want to see the

:03:19.:03:21.

national living wage leading through into the bar having higher take home

:03:22.:03:25.

pay, not lower take home pay, and we would urge all companies to make

:03:26.:03:29.

sure that is the case. I haven't seen the information about Marks

:03:30.:03:33.

Spencer but they know, like any retailer, that they need to attract

:03:34.:03:37.

and retain and motivate staff that they have and it's absolutely

:03:38.:03:41.

crucial in retail, particularly with all the competition with online,

:03:42.:03:44.

that they continue to do that, and they won't do that if they cut

:03:45.:03:51.

people's pay. I agree with the Prime Minister on Europe. When he said to

:03:52.:03:57.

the CBR on the 9th of November last year, and I quote, "Some people seem

:03:58.:04:01.

to say that Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK outside the

:04:02.:04:06.

EU, I don't think that is true," the argument isn't whether Britain could

:04:07.:04:10.

survive outside the EU, of course it could. So if, as I hope, despite the

:04:11.:04:14.

panic driven negativity from the Remain camp and Downing Street, the

:04:15.:04:18.

British people vote next week to become a free and independent nation

:04:19.:04:25.

again. Will my right honourable friend join me in embracing the

:04:26.:04:29.

optimism and opportunity for our country and our people that such a

:04:30.:04:35.

momentous decision would bring? I would say to my honourable friend,

:04:36.:04:40.

as I said at the CBI, of course Britain can survive outside the EU.

:04:41.:04:44.

Nobody is questioning that. The question is, how are we going to do

:04:45.:04:49.

best? How are we going to create the most jobs, the most investment, have

:04:50.:04:53.

the most opportunities our children, we'll do the greatest power in the

:04:54.:04:58.

world, get things done? And all those issues, stronger, safer,

:04:59.:05:02.

better off, the arguments are on the Remain aside. Could I associate

:05:03.:05:09.

myself and, indeed, all of my party across the country with the remarks

:05:10.:05:12.

he made earlier on about the killings in France and the brutal,

:05:13.:05:19.

phobic murders in Florida. The killer and his vicious, homophobic

:05:20.:05:23.

act do not speak for Islam. The wealthy Eve eat fuelling the Leave

:05:24.:05:28.

campaign will be an harmed by the inevitable hike in interest rates

:05:29.:05:34.

that will follow Britain's exit from the EU and the decline in sterling.

:05:35.:05:40.

The rate rise, however, will have a hit on millions of ordinary British

:05:41.:05:45.

people. It will push people to lose their homes through repossession and

:05:46.:05:48.

push low-income people further into crippling debt. Was he advises Tory

:05:49.:05:53.

Brexit colleagues that there is a long-term economic plan on offer, in

:05:54.:05:57.

which he can help those people who are hard-working families not to

:05:58.:06:02.

suffer? It is to vote Remain on Thursday. He and I are often on

:06:03.:06:09.

opposing sides of arguments but I think it says volumes about the

:06:10.:06:13.

breadth of the campaign to remain in a reformed EU that we have the

:06:14.:06:16.

Liberal Democrats, as well as the Labour Party, the Greens, the trades

:06:17.:06:22.

unions, and so many others, coming from different perspectives but all

:06:23.:06:25.

saying our economy will be better off so therefore families will be

:06:26.:06:28.

better off, our country will be better off, if we remain in, and

:06:29.:06:32.

he's absolutely right in what he says about interest rates. The last

:06:33.:06:36.

thing homeowners, home-buyers and our country needs is a hike in

:06:37.:06:40.

interest rates damaging our economy. I'm glad he's bought a long-term

:06:41.:06:44.

economic plan and that should have, as part of its plan, remaining in

:06:45.:06:51.

reformed EU. Can I congratulate him for an array our manifesto pledge --

:06:52.:06:57.

honouring our manifesto pledge and delivering this historic referendum.

:06:58.:07:02.

Unfortunately, we have heard some hysterical scaremongering during

:07:03.:07:05.

this debate. There are those in this House, and in the other place, who

:07:06.:07:10.

believe that if the British people decide to leave the EU, there should

:07:11.:07:15.

be a second referendum. Can he assure the House and the country

:07:16.:07:20.

that whatever the result on June 24, his government will carry out the

:07:21.:07:26.

wishes of the British people. If the voters to remain, to remain, and if

:07:27.:07:29.

the voters to leave, which I hope it is, then we leave. I'm very happy to

:07:30.:07:35.

agree with my honourable friend. In means we remain in a reformed

:07:36.:07:40.

European Union, out means we come out. And as the Leave campaigners

:07:41.:07:43.

have said and others have said, out means out of the European Union, out

:07:44.:07:50.

of the European single market, out of the council of ministers, out of

:07:51.:07:55.

all of those things, and it then means a process of delivering that

:07:56.:07:58.

which will take at least two years, and then delivering a trade deal

:07:59.:08:01.

which could take as many as seven years, so I would say to anyone

:08:02.:08:05.

still in doubt - and there are even members in this House still thinking

:08:06.:08:09.

about how to vote - if you haven't made up your mind yet, if you are

:08:10.:08:12.

still uncertain, when you think of that decade of uncertainty for our

:08:13.:08:17.

economy and everything else, don't risk it, and vote Remain. The North

:08:18.:08:23.

Middlesex Hospital accident and emergency unit is incomplete

:08:24.:08:27.

meltdown. Will the Prime Minister commit to taking swift action to

:08:28.:08:34.

tackle this crisis? I do understand it is a very busy accident and

:08:35.:08:39.

emergency unit. It has received over 30,600 patients through its doors in

:08:40.:08:43.

April alone but it has managed to carry out 40,000 operations and more

:08:44.:08:48.

than 62,000 diagnostic tests every year. If we look at what has

:08:49.:08:53.

happened since 2010, there are 120 more doctors, 200 mating more nurses

:08:54.:08:59.

recruited by the trust. -- 280 more nurses. But I think this comes out

:09:00.:09:04.

to the core argument of today. If we remain in, we will have a stronger

:09:05.:09:07.

economy and then we have to make sure we take the proceeds of growth

:09:08.:09:10.

in that economy and continue to put them into the NHS, as I've always

:09:11.:09:16.

done as Prime Minister. I'm looking forward to the British people giving

:09:17.:09:19.

me the opportunity to vote against the vindictive emergency budget.

:09:20.:09:25.

Will my right honourable friend explained that if the Government is

:09:26.:09:30.

so strapped for cash, why is it still intent on spending ?50 billion

:09:31.:09:37.

on HS2? The point is that we will be strapped for cash if you believe the

:09:38.:09:42.

Institute for Fiscal Studies, or the national Institute for it, can

:09:43.:09:48.

social research, both impeccably Independent, who say there will be a

:09:49.:09:52.

hole in our public finances between 20 billion and 40 billion. If the

:09:53.:09:56.

economy shrinks and you have fewer jobs and lower wages, you get less

:09:57.:10:01.

tax receipts. If you have less tax receipts, clearly you either have to

:10:02.:10:04.

make cuts or you have to put up taxes or you have to increase

:10:05.:10:09.

borrowing. It is a simple matter of mathematics. There is an easy way to

:10:10.:10:12.

avoid getting into that situation and that is devoted to stay in a

:10:13.:10:14.

reformed EU next Thursday. Order. I once asked the US Secretary of

:10:15.:10:36.

State but his policy was in the Caribbean, and he said it was a

:10:37.:10:41.

potter portrayed in a formulation mode. I think you can use that to

:10:42.:10:49.

describe today's PMQs. Jeremy Corbyn started with a question which took

:10:50.:10:53.

us by surprise on phone hacking. He then moved on to the NHS and Leave

:10:54.:11:06.

and whether the NHS would be weaker or stronger. And then the old

:11:07.:11:12.

favourite about the post workers directive, and the agencies who only

:11:13.:11:16.

advertise jobs abroad. We moved on the migrant funds which Jeremy

:11:17.:11:21.

Corbyn was pushing. The Prime Minister said he had reignited the

:11:22.:11:25.

migrant funds. Then we had fishing quotas. We didn't see that one

:11:26.:11:30.

happening, but there is a lot going on on the Thames at the moment with

:11:31.:11:35.

fishermen for Brexit being assailed by Bob Geldof in a different vote

:11:36.:11:44.

for Remain. But should be fun. You know it is a big news event when

:11:45.:11:49.

helicopters are scrambled to cover it. Finally we got to the central,

:11:50.:11:58.

crucial note of this referendum, the Chancellor saying he would need an

:11:59.:12:02.

emergency budget if we voted to leave and Jeremy Corbyn as the Prime

:12:03.:12:07.

Minister what he thought about the 57 MPs who said they wouldn't vote

:12:08.:12:12.

for that. We then got Mr Cameron to give his case that the union. The

:12:13.:12:18.

questions were lined up so the Prime Minister could respond in that way.

:12:19.:12:25.

An unusual PMQs. Break next week. Helen Manning said Jeremy Corbyn

:12:26.:12:29.

asking questions about phone hacking and agency workers EU directives

:12:30.:12:33.

when this country is on the brink of deciding future, is farcical.

:12:34.:12:39.

Kurt said they were the most boring and staged questions by Jeremy

:12:40.:12:46.

Corbyn. Geoffrey said scaremongering from Mr Cameron Phil is no one. He

:12:47.:12:50.

should be ashamed of himself, I have a sneaky suspicion it was his last

:12:51.:12:54.

PMQs as Conservative leader anyway. And then this tweet from Matt -

:12:55.:13:01.

there are a lot of bored journalists sitting in PMQs wishing they were

:13:02.:13:05.

outside on a boat, they are miserably watching the flotilla on

:13:06.:13:09.

Twitter. There is some truth in that. We will

:13:10.:13:16.

see if we can get some pictures of this flotilla. Is there don't know

:13:17.:13:27.

flotilla as well. Not unless you have charted it. We have a reporter

:13:28.:13:31.

on this flotilla, we are going live before the end of this programme.

:13:32.:13:37.

Some people are barbecuing Scottish langoustine brought all the way from

:13:38.:13:42.

Peterhead. If that is your kind of thing, it might be worth going to

:13:43.:13:47.

the river. Look at the pictures. I think the big boat in the middle

:13:48.:13:54.

belongs to Bob Geldof, the Leave one. Hose down by a Leave boat. A

:13:55.:14:04.

senior member of the government did say to me this morning, what is

:14:05.:14:11.

going on in the world. We are on the verge of making this huge decision

:14:12.:14:15.

and we end up with boats scrapping each other on the Thames. There is a

:14:16.:14:20.

very strange mood in Westminster because nobody has a clue what is

:14:21.:14:26.

going to happen. Partly because the polling models don't work and the

:14:27.:14:30.

parties are discredited after the general election. People are hearing

:14:31.:14:33.

different messages on the doorsteps. There is a sense that anything might

:14:34.:14:40.

happen. One of the viewers said, it might be huge, but it might be David

:14:41.:14:51.

Cameron's last PMQs. It is one of the multiplicity of possible things

:14:52.:14:54.

that might happen in the next ten days. Is it a strange atmosphere,

:14:55.:15:01.

John? People are taking control and the politicians don't know what to

:15:02.:15:06.

do. I am talking about Labour MPs, going out and having street stalls,

:15:07.:15:11.

they are getting robust exchanges, shall we say. When they are knocking

:15:12.:15:17.

on doors, to find what is happening, there aren't many knocking on doors,

:15:18.:15:20.

but they are shocked at the response they are getting. They shouldn't be.

:15:21.:15:27.

The interesting thing is, my prediction, the turnout in

:15:28.:15:32.

working-class communities will be higher than in any other

:15:33.:15:36.

communities, for the first time since the 50s. It is true,

:15:37.:15:42.

everywhere I go, the school gates, the local shop, for the first time,

:15:43.:15:48.

everybody is talking about it. They are not talking about the debate we

:15:49.:15:52.

politicians are having, whatever our views are. That is not influencing

:15:53.:15:57.

them, they are talking about what their experience is of it, workplace

:15:58.:16:04.

discussions, discussions in the community and discussions in

:16:05.:16:07.

families around the dinner table. That is what is going on and that is

:16:08.:16:13.

why so many people are going to vote. It has proved much tougher for

:16:14.:16:17.

the Prime Minister than he thought. He didn't expect to be in this

:16:18.:16:21.

position one week out, it was meant to be that by now, it would still be

:16:22.:16:29.

a fight, but a clear majority to Remain. Why hasn't it worked out? I

:16:30.:16:35.

don't know what the result will be. I still think it will be a Remain

:16:36.:16:40.

vote. I know I will annoy the viewers again and sound like a

:16:41.:16:45.

cliched politician, but we know the polls have been wrong and there was

:16:46.:16:51.

a rogue poll for the Scottish independence, and there was in terms

:16:52.:16:53.

of the general election. It isn't a slam dunk. My question didn't imply

:16:54.:17:04.

victory for Remain Leave. Why has it turned out to be tougher? I think

:17:05.:17:10.

John is onto something because there is a disconnect between Westminster

:17:11.:17:13.

politicians and their voters. It wasn't meant to be an anti-labour

:17:14.:17:19.

point, but Labour finds itself in a disconnected position. It is what

:17:20.:17:22.

has happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. It has been replaced by

:17:23.:17:28.

the SNP, the centre-left party people vote for that they feel talk

:17:29.:17:32.

to them. And I think the similar is happening in Labour's northern

:17:33.:17:39.

constituencies. John has worked very hard to keep in touch with the

:17:40.:17:48.

voters. That is true, but the David Cameron misjudgement above all. I

:17:49.:17:53.

think he thought, let's call them the Labour moderates, Liz candle,

:17:54.:17:56.

Yvette Cooper, very pro-European, historically. They would be

:17:57.:18:02.

outspoken and it would carry that sway and Jeremy and his leadership

:18:03.:18:07.

and these new people, that would appeal, I think they bought the myth

:18:08.:18:11.

of these vast numbers of Jeremy Corbyn fans out there, where are

:18:12.:18:17.

they? The fact is, there aren't that many of them, they are not knocking

:18:18.:18:21.

on doors. A lot of them, possibly Jeremy Corbyn himself, not that

:18:22.:18:28.

convinced about the European Union. The George Osborne, David Cameron

:18:29.:18:34.

playbook for the referendum was they saw as being a successful tactic in

:18:35.:18:38.

the Scottish referendum and then a successful tactic in the general

:18:39.:18:42.

election, don't take the risk with the economy. That is the play, that

:18:43.:18:47.

is what they decided to do in this referendum campaign as well. Despite

:18:48.:18:51.

the fact people in the Conservative Party and the Labour Party,

:18:52.:18:56.

internally in the Remain camp have been saying, we have to offer more

:18:57.:18:59.

than this, it is not the general election or a replay of the Scottish

:19:00.:19:06.

referendum. Yes, there is a problem with Labour having a disconnect with

:19:07.:19:09.

their voters, but one of the big points we have seen, the Prime

:19:10.:19:17.

Minister is now in an uncomfortable position, then analysis of what

:19:18.:19:20.

would work in this referendum campaign going on the narrow

:19:21.:19:23.

economic point, has proved to be wrong. That has not delivered, it

:19:24.:19:32.

hasn't resonated. I would suggest, and there are all sorts of things

:19:33.:19:36.

going on in this referendum, I would suggest this referendum was always

:19:37.:19:39.

going to be about identity as well as how well of the country is. Also,

:19:40.:19:45.

there has a thing we have seen in the last few weeks, we are in a

:19:46.:19:51.

post-fact world. People we have been talking to around the country,

:19:52.:19:56.

seeing people and listening to politicians and asking questions of

:19:57.:19:58.

politicians, voters don't want to believe any of them at all. So

:19:59.:20:05.

Westminster scrapping over the 350 million whatever, people don't

:20:06.:20:09.

believe either side at all. It is about expenses, probably about cash

:20:10.:20:16.

for honours in Iraq. People had underestimated the level of distrust

:20:17.:20:19.

amongst some parts of the electorate. I think many voters

:20:20.:20:24.

it'll be about instinct. The Scottish referendum was as much

:20:25.:20:33.

about identity as was about the economy and in terms of what John is

:20:34.:20:37.

finding on the doorstep, I don't know, but I think there are issues

:20:38.:20:40.

that do resonate. One is about sovereignty, are we ruled by Europe

:20:41.:20:45.

or not? I think we are strong independent nation. It is about an

:20:46.:20:48.

economic risk. People do to that point on board. And there is this

:20:49.:20:52.

whole debate about immigration, not being anti immigration per se but

:20:53.:20:57.

worried about the effect on public services. There is one very powerful

:20:58.:21:03.

thing that is also going on, and I don't disagree with what you are

:21:04.:21:05.

saying, and that's about empowerment. Zero our contracts,

:21:06.:21:11.

agency work, it's a referendum. We can make a decision and people are

:21:12.:21:15.

thinking... The feedback I get, people are talking about agency work

:21:16.:21:20.

all the time. This is what I think is motivated people. It's not about

:21:21.:21:24.

"We don't like foreigners". There's a tiny group who say that, but that

:21:25.:21:29.

is not what the vast majority are saying. To me they are saying the

:21:30.:21:33.

opposite. They are saying, I've got this wonderful Polish neighbour next

:21:34.:21:40.

to me, but it's my job. And that empowerment where they can make a

:21:41.:21:43.

decision, that's very big and that's why turnout will be high. We have

:21:44.:21:48.

run out of time and need to move on. It is fast approaching one o'clock.

:21:49.:21:49.

Laura, thank you. Now, the businessman

:21:50.:21:51.

Philip Green has been appearing from MPs over his part

:21:52.:21:53.

in the collapse of the high There's certainly no intent at all

:21:54.:22:08.

on my part for anything to be like this, and it didn't need to be like

:22:09.:22:11.

this, and I just want to apologise to all the BHS people who have been

:22:12.:22:17.

involved in this. When you first... I wasn't involved in it. I can't

:22:18.:22:20.

answer you because I wasn't involved in its. You can ask me as many

:22:21.:22:25.

questions as you like. This was not on my table to deal with. On your

:22:26.:22:31.

commitment to the pension scheme... Why can't I answer the question? No,

:22:32.:22:39.

no, no, because you are not getting the right information. He is trying

:22:40.:22:42.

to make me answer things I cannot answer and force me to give him the

:22:43.:22:45.

answer he wants and I'm not going to. Before the hearing, Philip Green

:22:46.:22:51.

described the Parliamentary increase as a process which is not even the

:22:52.:22:56.

pretence of fairness and objectivity and at its primary objective was

:22:57.:22:59.

"The destruction of my repeat edition" you describe the showed up?

:23:00.:23:04.

No, because then he would have been dragged on and it would have been

:23:05.:23:07.

even worse. His reputation is damaged anyway. When his web of

:23:08.:23:12.

things are going well, he takes all the glory and all of the money. When

:23:13.:23:17.

it goes wrong, everyone else takes the hit and he says it is nothing to

:23:18.:23:21.

do with him. That is fundamentally wrong morally, ethically, and is

:23:22.:23:25.

fundamentally unfair. But in the end, Ed Vaizey, what did we learn?

:23:26.:23:31.

Those people are still going to lose those jobs. I haven't seen the

:23:32.:23:36.

select committee hearing but Frank Field is a highly respected chairman

:23:37.:23:40.

of that committee, very experienced in these issues, and the reason he

:23:41.:23:43.

is in front of the committee is about the future of the BHS pension,

:23:44.:23:48.

so I'm sure the select committee report will influence thinking. The

:23:49.:23:51.

Government itself is thinking in terms of the insolvency service

:23:52.:23:55.

inquiry and working with the pensions regulator and the pension

:23:56.:23:58.

protection fund. But you would expect a committee like Frank's to

:23:59.:24:03.

either firstly focus on what happened to the BHS pension but also

:24:04.:24:07.

come up with recommendations on what has happened, for the Government to

:24:08.:24:11.

say, these are things we should be thinking about. He refused to

:24:12.:24:15.

guarantee today that people in the scheme would get the same amount,

:24:16.:24:19.

those already in the scheme, would get the same amount they were

:24:20.:24:22.

originally entitled to before BHS collapsed, in terms of pensions. If

:24:23.:24:26.

his plan does fall short, should the Government stepping? It is too soon

:24:27.:24:30.

to say and I don't want to be accused of dodging the question but

:24:31.:24:33.

there is a process where you have the pensions regulator, which has

:24:34.:24:36.

the power, potentially, to ask the former owner of a company to

:24:37.:24:40.

contribute to a pension deficit, and you've got the pension protection

:24:41.:24:44.

fund, which was set up precisely to help where a pension fund was in

:24:45.:24:47.

deficit because of a company going bust. So both those organisations

:24:48.:24:52.

are working with the BHS pension trustees. But if that doesn't

:24:53.:24:56.

happen, should the government help? Potentially, the protection fund is

:24:57.:24:59.

the Government's body to help out when the pension is a deficit. So

:25:00.:25:04.

maybe, then. Sir Philip Green also said he is working on a solution for

:25:05.:25:08.

the BHS pensions mess, as he called it, and said it wasn't anything

:25:09.:25:12.

directly to do with him, in terms of the talks that happened beforehand.

:25:13.:25:15.

There are 20,000 people in the scheme and it has a ?571 million

:25:16.:25:20.

deficit. What do you think will happen? I think there is a big

:25:21.:25:24.

danger those people are going to lose out quite a lot and therefore

:25:25.:25:27.

it needs government assistance and need him to cough up all the money

:25:28.:25:32.

he made out of this escapade and put it back in. Do you think that is

:25:33.:25:38.

likely? No. Oh, well, there you go. I got an answer. That was an answer!

:25:39.:25:51.

Nigel Farage is leading a flotilla in protest at the EU fishing quotas.

:25:52.:25:57.

They set off from South End in the early hours of the morning,

:25:58.:26:00.

and made their way under London Bridge before arriving

:26:01.:26:02.

You can see them there looking onto the MPs' Terrace.

:26:03.:26:10.

It's not been entirely plain sailing as they also encountered

:26:11.:26:13.

pro-Remain ships - one carrying the activist

:26:14.:26:15.

Bob Geldof - as they made their way toward the Westminster.

:26:16.:26:21.

We are seafaring nation and it is only fair that this should be fought

:26:22.:26:27.

out in the Thames. Our man on the front line in the Battle of the

:26:28.:26:31.

Brexit votes is Giles Dilnot. We go to him live.

:26:32.:26:37.

You had debates, you've had leaflets, you haven't heard anything

:26:38.:26:41.

quite like this. A water board war of words between Nigel Farage and

:26:42.:26:45.

Bob Geldof! A flotilla of fishing industry votes for Leave saying that

:26:46.:26:50.

the EU has crippled the industry. We got a whole flotilla of small In

:26:51.:26:54.

votes zipping around and that large barge with Bob Geldof on it,

:26:55.:27:01.

chanting that the EU benefits fishermen. There were not many

:27:02.:27:04.

fishermen on board that vote. Nigel Farage pointing out that this is a

:27:05.:27:08.

millionaire dictating to small businessmen. I saw earlier the

:27:09.:27:15.

millionaire supporter of Leave.EU smiling at me and saying that it

:27:16.:27:19.

looked fun. There are people saying the EU has been very bad for them,

:27:20.:27:22.

Nigel Farage is here to support them, and when it got to that battle

:27:23.:27:27.

of words, it was quite something and most of us have ears ringing. We've

:27:28.:27:31.

moved away from the House of Commons because frankly, you wouldn't have

:27:32.:27:35.

heard a word I said. I'm glad you did but you seem to be going

:27:36.:27:38.

upstream now. When are you going to turn round and go back down again? I

:27:39.:27:42.

have absolutely no idea, to be honest. I want a tactical retreat,

:27:43.:27:47.

from I think, from the sound barrage. Safe sailing, Giles tit

:27:48.:27:50.

thank you very much. There's just time to put you out

:27:51.:27:54.

of your misery and give John Mann, press that buzzer. Lets

:27:55.:28:06.

see who it is. It is Stephen Collinson from

:28:07.:28:10.

Hastings. Well done, you got the historic mug, which is no different

:28:11.:28:11.

to any of the others. I'll be back tomorrow

:28:12.:28:13.

with the Daily Politics at midday and then a special extended

:28:14.:28:17.

edition of This Week. We'll be on until the small wee

:28:18.:28:20.

hours of the morning to bring you the results

:28:21.:28:22.

of the Tooting by-election. And for the benefit of those

:28:23.:28:32.

who live in Tooting, a full list of candidates standing in that

:28:33.:28:35.

by-election is on the screen now. You will each collect

:28:36.:28:38.

a Michelin-starred chef. 'En route,

:28:39.:29:02.

each chef will prepare a dish.'

:29:03.:29:05.

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