16/09/2016: UKIP Conference Daily Politics

16/09/2016: UKIP Conference

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It has been very busy. We have swapped the exceptional September


heat for some exceptionally thundery downpours.


As Ukip prepares to unveil its new leader, Nigel Farage


delivers his final leader's speech - we'll bring you that live


from the UKIP conference in Bournemouth, and ask where the


It's achieved its central goal but there are defections


and disarray in Ukip in the wake of the Brexit vote -


one of Nigel Farage's former aides tells us why she's leaving


EU leaders meet in Slovakia to discuss Brexit and other


Theresa May won't be there, so what deal will the remaining 27


members offer Britain outside the EU?


And Britain may not be part of it, and many assured us it


wasn't on the cards, but will the EU soon


All that in the next 90 minutes - and with us for the next hour,


First this morning, let's just hear what outgoing Ukip leader


Nigel Farage has been saying about you.


Genuinely, I don't know why he joined.


He doesn't seem to believe anything we stand for, it's rather odd.


He doesn't contribute to what we do as a national political party.


He just happens to be the MP for the most Eurosceptic


All the democratic data puts Clacton the number one jurisdiction...


Well, at the time it seemed like a good idea.


Nigel Farage on Sky News. He says he doesn't know why you joined Ukip.


Can you remember why you joined? I wanted to make sure we had a


referendum and I wanted to make sure that the group thinking in


Westminster on the Europe question was broken and as a consequence of


the by-election, I think that's one of the reasons, one of a number of


reasons, why we had a referendum. He says you must feel, quote, very


uncomfortable in Ukip. Do you feel uncomfortable in Ukip? There are


times when it seems as if you do. I feel uncomfortable with the nativist


sentiment of Assyrian posters, I felt uncomfortable with the shock


and awful tactics that were rejected by the electorate in the run-up to


the last general election but ultimately, I think Nigel find it


difficult, forgive me, forwarding my seat. I brought two thirds of our


Parliamentary election results. There are some in Ukip you find it


difficult to forgive me not just because I won but because I won by


not imitating that shock and awe. To Giteau that so singularly failed


elsewhere. But that's what the party, in many regards, was about.


You knew what you were getting into. I disagree. I think Ukip can and


should and has a tradition of being a libertarian, free-market party.


There is a cartel in Westminster. The established parties have rigged


the existing system. We could break that and I think we desperately do


need a new force in British politics that will break that. That could


still be Ukip. It is not just the groupthink surrounding Europe policy


that is holding the country back, there was groupthink over a whole


range of issues whether cartel of parties aren't giving us the change


this country needs. Ukip could be that force. Now that most people in


Westminster approach on leaving the European Union, a sensible control


policy on immigration, let's shift the groupthink on all those other


things like quantitative easing and monetary policy which are enriching


a few bankers at the expense of everyone else. The family court


system... There is a whole range of topics where change is desperately


needed. UR voice of one and there was no sense that Ukip could go down


that road. -- you are a voice of one. Is it not all over for you? I


think with a new leader we have the chance to press the reset button and


I think if we have a leader, and I've been calling for a change of


leadership for some time, if we do press the reset button and avoid


some infighting, it is a huge opportunity. Look at the broader


picture. The Conservative Party looks like it is a one party mini at


the moment. They only got 37% last election. The Liberal Democrats are


on holiday from history. We need a new leader, a fresh face and a


slightly more optimistic and cheerful tone. If we have that, the


sky is the limit it up very well. So we're expecting Nigel Farage


to come to his feet It's supposed to be his last speech


to Conference as party leader - but he has resigned twice before


only to make comebacks. He built Ukip from a minority,


fringe party to one that got 14% of the vote


at the last general election. Nigel Farage himself failed


to become an MP in 2010 and 2015. But the party now has 22 MEPs,


as well as one MP and a presence Perhaps their greatest achievement


was to secure a Leave vote in the EU Referendum on June 23rd,


which Mr Farage hailed But with that secured,


what's the future of the party? Diane James is the favourite


to take over as leader this afternoon, but some of the party's


biggest names - like Suzanne Evans and Steven Woolfe -


were unable to take part A row in the party in Wales


means their leader there - Nathan Gill - is now sitting


as an independent in the Assembly. And yesterday on this programme,


the party's former director, Steve Stanbury, announced his


defection to the Conservatives. We're joined now by former


Ukip Head of Media and aide to Nigel Farage Alex Phillips,


who has said today that she is leaving the party


and joining the Conservatives. Why? I think it's quite simple.


First of all, Ukip is itself cannibalising. It is eating itself


from the inside out. But when I saw Theresa May become Prime Minister


and start talking about selective education, and I've read about her


ascent to do exploratory drilling to look for shale gas, for energy


security, those things are key policies that I really believe in


and I think you can either be loyal to an organisation or loyalty or


convictions. So you think because of the direction that the May


Conservative government is going in now, there is not a need for Ukip?


My position is, for me on the things that I believe in, I don't need


Ukip. I've outgrown Ukip. There are 4 million people who voted Ukip in


the general election. May consider the alternative -- they are


considered the alternative to Labour. What Ukip does need to do is


rebrand, find distinct policy initiatives now to separate


themselves from the Conservatives. Why don't you stay to help them do


that? I've outgrown the party and when I look at what Theresa May is


saying and doing, they are the party of government. If I want those


things to get through Parliament, to actually come into effect, I need


the Conservatives to increase their majority in 2020 to help the passage


of those bills. What did Nigel Farage say when you told him you


were leaving? We've spoken about it a few times. I spoke to him on


Wednesday. He was disappointed, understandably. He said, why don't


you want to stay? Do you trust Theresa May? I gave him the reasons


I've just given you and we are good friends. You are still good friends?


I believe so, yeah. You've said the party is in, quote, a catastrophic


mess. That is hardly a legacy that your good friend can be proud of. I


don't want to point fingers at an individual. There are many


contributing factors. I think Douglas knows this very well. They


created a sense of animosity, this growing bitterness and jealousy. It


created an environment where conspiracy theories were running


amok and things were becoming from myth into legend. It got to the


stage, I feel, that it is almost irreparable. The next leader has got


a huge job at the hands. You think it may not have a future? That's not


for me to say. In November you said Ukip was here to stay. You clearly


don't think that now. I did believe that in November. I


believed that, really, up until around February or March, when I saw


quite how much the fallout was affecting the party, quite how deep


those divisions were and I thought, I just can't see a way back now. I


can't see a way for Ukip to unify and the final straw, really, was


Theresa May standing up and saying, you know, putting forward policies


that will appeal to a lot of Ukip voters. You describe Neil Hamilton


of Ukip in Wales as, quote, a Machiavellian Rasputin character. I


know, terminology am quite proud of. Why do you describe him like that? I


don't want to assert that he causes this or that or is plotting this or


that. I've seen e-mails and texts he's is sent. They are not positive


or constructive. He also is very often opportunistically at the side


of an explosion and I think there comes a time when you have to say,


we need to unify, this isn't about slinging mud at each other at the


press, although one could argue that is likely what I'm doing now. I


think one could argue that with veracity! But I've left! Don't you


late at night, on your Rome, worry that you joined the wrong club in


the end? I sleep very soundly at night, particularly after June 23.


You don't pay, what have I done? Alex Phillips is leaving, Stephen


Stanford resigned on this programme. The head of Ukip in Wales is now an


independent. Miss Phillips says that the senior figure in Wales is now a


Machiavellian Rasputin character. This is a kind of Ukip version of


the Bullingdon Club you joined, isn't it? I like and respect Alex


far too much to argue with that. She's obviously thought long and


hard about this. I think Alex is the person that any party should give an


arm and a leg to have as part of the team and it makes me very sad and it


is a huge loss. I still reckon that having a 1-party monopoly system in


Westminster, which is, in effect, what we've got, is not going to


change this country for the better. I understand that but if you listen


to Alex Phillips, it wouldn't suggest that Ukip, which is in,


quote, a catastrophic mess, is the antidote to Tory figure many. It's a


fixable problem. If we had party strategists, election strategist,


who knew how to count, that would be a good start it up if we are people


with experience of winning elections helping with messaging, that would


be a start, but this just shows that the next leader has an enormous task


of unifying the party. There are still some very talented people


there. They need to be brought together, not torn apart. Thank you


for being with us. My pleasure. So, in a few minutes Nigel Farage


will get to his feet to make his final


speech as party leader. First, let's take a look


at the highs and lows What people are saying


is "Get Britain out". I'm going to have a Black Sheep,


please. You have the charisma of a damp


rag, and the appearance Nobody in Europe had ever


heard of you. It's one of those grace of God


things that he is still alive. He used to ignore immigration,


now he lives on a reservation. I don't know that


leaflet Nick, but... Go back to the river,


because you're up one The sun has risen on an


independent United Kingdom. And just look at it,


even the weather's improved. I know that virtually none


of you have ever done a proper You, as a political project,


are in denial. Well, thank you, and good


evening Mississippi! It's time for me to stand aside


as leader of this party. I feel it's right that I should now


stand aside, as leader of Ukip. It's only when they're empty that


you do that, when it's The life and times of Nigel Farage.


We are waiting for him to get up on his feet at the conference in


Bournemouth where he will give his swansong and we will go there live


the moment we see that is happening. There is someone else speaking at


the moment. Douglas Carswell, if it hadn't been for Nigel Farage, would


Ukip have ever got 4 million votes in the general election, would it


have forced the Tories into a referendum? Credit where it's due.


He played a huge role in the referendum, not exclusively, many


people in the Conservative Party, many ministers who sacrifice their


ministerial careers that made sure we had a referendum. It was fear of


Nigel Farage, they feared him as a potent force. They feared he reached


traditional Tory voters. If you look at the polls immediately after the


Rochester and Clacton by-elections, one in five people at one time were


going to vote Ukip. The fact we run a campaign over the next six months


that lost us one in three-year supporters is another story. It


caused David Cameron to make commitments that wouldn't have


happened without Nigel and Ukip. Getting a referendum and winning


it... That was what got Ukip out of bed in the morning. That's now


happened. You talked earlier of a party that is free-market and


libertarian. That's not what they're voting for in the north of England,


the disillusioned working class. They are not voting for Fabius among


government knows best either. They are voting for a government that


would take notice of them. They regard the free market as something


that destroyed all that old industries. With respect, one of the


reasons the centre-left parties are in a crisis is precisely because the


conventional, Fabian ideas don't appeal to their base any more. We


knew this moment was coming. We knew this moment would come when we voted


to leave the European Union, when the establishment has accepted our


views on immigration. We spent the last six months working on a series


of policy papers, on a series of things besides immigration. Opening


up the family courts, energy market, taking on the banking cartel,


quantitative easing. A whole range of things a party like Ukip needs to


do to make sure we're no longer governed by this group thing, this


soggy way in Westminster that is running the country into the ground.


Your lowest hanging fruit is in the north of England. There is a lot of


data in the the Times this morning that suggests the 20 seats where


people regard themselves, in the north, regard themselves most as


English, not British, are also the 20 areas where the vote to Leave was


biggest of all. That is a politics of identity. They are looking for


someone to represent that identity. They don't think it is Labour any


more. They don't really give the Tories look in. They are not going


to give Ukip a look in either. With respect, I think they could. We had


a leader on the centre-right, Margaret Thatcher, who understood


people who to traditionally voted Labour, if you gave them the


opportunity to buy their council house, that would give them support


in the ballot box. We could do that. Giving people the ability to self


commission public services, allowing people to have the same choice over


their child's education that they have when they decide what their


child watches evening, giving people the ability to share... She lost


almost every major northern city. She was also never defeated by the


British people. It was under her the Conservatives increasingly became a


party of the South. That trend began under her. Yes, and I'm not drawing


an exact analogy. Because it doesn't work. If you are looking for a fresh


approach to build a coalition, from a traditional Labour base, she shows


you some ways, ideas as to how you can do that. Who do you speak for in


Ukip on this? Almost no one else of the names that are left takes this


line. You are a one-man band almost. Perhaps if we were talking about


them a bit more we would be on 20% of the polls rather than 10%. I took


a great deal about these things in Clacton. This approach manages to


secure support, obviously from centre-right voters, also former


Labour voters in Essex. I'm sure it could work across the country. It


must be a pretty good chance you are going to fight the 2020 election as


an independent? I'm planning on fighting as the Ukip candidate,


whenever the election may be. Who says it's going to be in 2020? We


don't know. Whenever it is. Never mind the date. It must be, given...


Ukip and you are now two ships passing in the night. The outgoing


leader of Ukip, rather like the outgoing leader of the Conservative


Party is perhaps a little critical of me. But it is not the former


leader of Ukip that really counts. It's the new leader and we are going


to hear you that new leader is and I look forward to working with them.


It is Diane James who is currently the favourite. Will you get on


better with her that Nigel Farage? I would give her 100% support. She


nearly won a by-election. She understands.


She has a compelling retail proposition. Simply complaining


about the state of the country is not sufficient to get you beyond the


base. You need something more. ? ?CAPNEXT all to let's go to take the


stage. He is being Mr Yuvraj is about to take the stage. He is being


introduced outgoing party outgoing Ukip of Ukip. He Farage to come up.


I Nigel Farage to come up. A rather younger they are showing a video


first, a rather younger looking Nigel


we are not going to show this we are not going to show this video we


don't do it for we don't do it the Tories on Lib Dems. Are you


convinced there will be, as the people voted for it? I think they're


well. I think there will be some attempt to try and frustrate and


subvert the referendum. The judiciary and House of Lords may try


it, we could even see the Humphrey in Whitehall try it, but I think


increasingly the momentum is such that that becomes impossible. Do you


have confidence in Theresa May, as the people voted for it? I think


they're well. I think there will be some attempt to try and frustrate


and subvert the referendum. The judiciary and House of Lords may try


it, we could even see the Humphrey in Whitehall try it, but I think


increasingly the momentum is such that that becomes impossible. Do you


have confidence in Theresa May that she was a reluctant, that she will


change your mind, that she would change committed to free trade and


getting us out of the EU. I hope that we make we have a government


committed to free trade and getting us out of the EU. I hope that we


make we get the trade aspect of Brexit that and free to conduct the


EU and free to. That is more important than anything else. We


still have access to the single market... What terms would be


acceptable for access? I think a deal can and will be done and I'm


very encouraged by some of the noises that are coming out, not so


much from the bureaucrats in Brussels but the Government since


agreements with the rest of the world. That is more important than


anything else. We still have access to the single market... What terms


would be acceptable for access? I think a deal can and will be done


and I'm very encouraged by some of the noises that are coming out, not


so much from the bureaucrats in Brussels


but the market. I don't see that is a downside. The difference is we


won't be a member of the single market,


because if you remember, in charge of the member states. The Italians


and Angela Merkel are making encouraging sounds and I am


confident Theresa May will deliver. We won't have access, we will have


access, but not access on the same terms and conditions as now, that


cannot happen, can it? British companies won't be bound by single


market rules unless they are selling to the single market. I don't see


that is a downside. The difference is we won't be a member of the


single market, because if you remember, the single market, subject


to rulings of the European Court. The terms cannot be as good as they


are at the moment? You have on your desk and iPad which was probably


assembled using California design in China. None of those countries is


part of the single market. We don't have a free trade agreement yet with


those countries. It is possible to buy and sell stuff from countries


without having trade deals. You have to make sure you get the right kind


of trade deal. If it is one in China. None of those countries is


part of the single market. We don't have a free trade agreement yet with


those countries. It is possible to buy and sell stuff from countries


without having trade deals. You have to make sure you get the right kind


of trade deal. If it is TTIP, it's not worth doing. Genuinely Liam Fox


is keen on that, I think we will see some spectacular gains in our


ability to trade globally. OK, we can go to Bournemouth now. Nigel


Farage is starting to the stage with the applause of the party


conference. Always popular with the rank and file of Ukip. Coming to


give his final speech, at least for now anyway. He has been in and out


of the leadership trade and Liam Fox is keen on that, I think we will see


some spectacular gains in our ability to trade globally. OK, we


can go to Bournemouth now. Nigel Farage is starting to the stage with


the applause of the party conference. Always popular with the


rank and file of Ukip. Coming to give his final speech, at least for


now anyway. He has been in and out of the leadership. As for now, a new


leader is being elected and will be announced this Nigel Farage gets to


Ukip conference to make his in Bournemouth at the Ukip conference


to make his closing remarks to the and the wider public. Seems to be


struggling a bit to and the wider public. Seems to be struggling a bit


to, such is the crash of the media to get of may have a party with only


one MP but he is a household he may have a party with only one MP but he


is a household name. Up leaders who have many party leaders who have had


a major influence on British politics in modern times. Let us


hear from MPs and he has had a major influence on British politics in


modern times. Let us hear from Nigel -- Nigel Farage as he makes his


swansong to the Ukip party conference. Wow. Thank you, thank


you, thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for that


fantastic welcome. We did it, we got our country back! And we would not


have done it without you, the People's Army of Ukip, and I'm very,


very proud of every single one of you. Thank you. APPLAUSE


The events of June 23 by three or 3:30am in the morning, when we


realised we would win it, felt to me like a fairy tale, frankly, that had


come true. Because this has been a very long journey indeed. 25 years


ago I joined the antifederalists league. Not many people can say


that, because there weren't many of us! Then in 1993 it became Ukip, and


I said to myself, it doesn't matter that all my friends and family and


business colleagues think I've gone mad, it doesn't matter to me that


history says it's impossible to get a new political party off the ground


in this country. To me it was very simple, all those years ago, it was


a matter of principle. I believed we should govern our own country.


APPLAUSE Six weeks, six weeks after the party


had been formed, the Conservative member of Parliament in Eastleigh


died overnight and there was a by-election.


I thought, in for a penny, in for a pound, and I volunteered and was the


first-ever adopted candidate of the UK Independence party. And I went


out there and I campaigned and I did my best, and I can tell you, on the


night of the result, by a crushing clear margin of 164 votes I beat the


late great screaming Lord such and didn't come last.


It was kind of difficult to get more than 1% in a by-election for us in


those days. But things changed in 1999 with the advent of proportional


representation for the European elections. No wonder thought we had


a chance. I always did. I will never forget that night, when three of us


were elected and Ukip was just beginning to get on, in real terms,


the political map. I will never forget that feeling, it was an


amazing feeling. I was interviewed, my first ever live interview was


from iridium. Of course, I had no media training or anything like


that. It was a live interview at 1:30am and Phil said to me,


congratulations Nigel, you said you are going to do it and you have. But


next week, he said, you will be off on Eurostar to the European


Parliament and you will find it never rending round of invitations


to lunches, it dinners, champagne receptions. Do you, he asked me,


think you will become corrupted by the lifestyle? I replied live on


air, no, I've always lived like that! APPLAUSE


At least it was true! We went on for year after year,


being part of Ukip, it's like a big Dipper ride, successes, dramatic


failures, all the things that happen within any political party. But we


first really got onto the political big-time early in 2013. Early in


2013, when suddenly the British public realised that what we had to


say about the taboo subject, the subject that you are not supposed to


discuss in polite company. The subject that new Labour made even


raising it you were committing a criminal offence. We were not


frightened to talk honestly and openly about the need for sensible


immigration into this country, and we talked about it. APPLAUSE


And we talked about and it rapidly became the number one issue in


British politics and nobody else would even touch the subject.


They couldn't touch the subject because they were all committed to


membership of European union, which meant the free movement of up to 500


million people. The Eastleigh by-election, suddenly we got a big


score. We then went into the county elections of that year and I


remember, I was due in Millbank, number four Millbank, where all the


broadcasters are. I was due to do an interview about Ukip overnight


getting 23% of the national vote. As I got about 100 yards away from the


entrance, I saw a big throng of cameramen and photographers, and I


thought, crikey, something really big must have happened. LAUGHTER


And I was quite oblivious to just what we'd done. We've gone on from


there, we won the European elections in 2014. APPLAUSE


The first party that was an Labour or Tory to win a national election


since 1906. -- that was not Labour or Tory. Without us, there would


have been no referendum. APPLAUSE


Without you, without you and the people's army, there would have been


no campaign and together we have changed the course of British


history. And we've brought down a Prime Minister.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE And we've got rid of the Chancellor.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE I forget what I called him now! And


we've got rid of a European Commissioner. I said four years


ago... I predicted that Ukip would cause an earthquake in British


politics. Well, we have. We have. APPLAUSE


So the question is, what now? We have a new Prime Minister, who has


said that Brexit means Brexit. A new Prime Minister who, when she


started, looked to be very sure-footed on this issue. But I


have a feeling that things are beginning to change. When I saw her


at the G20 making her speech afterwards, she said that the


British people voted in the referendum for some control of


immigration from the European Union. No, Prime Minister. We voted to take


back control of our borders, simple as.


APPLAUSE And we have Cabinet ministers like


the Home Secretary still fighting the referendum, suggesting last


weekend that it might cost us 50 quid to get these are to go on a


booze to Calais. -- to get a visa. Half this cabinet did not only


failed to support the winning side in the referendum but it seems to me


they want to do their utmost to keep us part of the single market. There


is going to be a great political battle ahead and my concern would be


this - with Labour in the mess that it's in, and, boy, it is in a mess,


isn't it, a leadership election going on and yet there is no


conversation with the half of Labour voters or ball in the Midlands or


the north that voted for Brexit, but with Labour in trouble and the


Conservatives perhaps heading towards 2020 in a very comfortable


and easy position, the temptation on the Prime Minister will be to go for


a soft Brexit, as opposed to a hard Brexit. We can be very proud of the


fact that we won the war but we now must win the peace and the only


mechanism to put pressure on the Government to keep the debate live


and make sure that those 17.4 million people get what they voted


for is for Ukip to be healthy and for Ukip to be strong.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE We will find out at 1:30pm who our


new bid is and I wish them - I'm guessing it's going to be a her but


we'll see - I wish them the very best of luck, and my job is not to


meddle. My job is not to try and influence. My job will be, if that


leader wants any help and advise them, make no mistake about it, I am


still foursquare behind this party and its aims.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Steve Crowther has stood beside me


for six years as chairman of the party and if you think being leader


of Ukip is difficult, you want to try being chairman of Ukip! And I


have to say that if, at some point in time, Ukip do get recognised for


their contribution to British political life - and bearing in mind


that the Liberal Democrats have over 100 life peers in the House of Lords


- if anything like that was to come out of life, then I think Steve


really ought to be top of our list for everything you've done for this




Steve talked about reform, he talked about change. Remember this - Ukip


was a grassroots political party. Ukip didn't have, in the 1990s, any


well-known national figures. It didn't even have until 1999 any


elected representatives. It was a grassroots party and we chose to


manage ourselves through National Executive Committee, including


volunteers. And that was fine then but we've moved on, haven't we?


We're now the third biggest political party in this country. We


have to change our management structures and we have to charge


because one of the problems of success is that it brings people


into the party who, perhaps, don't do it for altruistic aims for the


country or its people but perhaps are more motivated by their own


professional careers in politics. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE


So, there are things that needs to change. But in essence, in essence,


I know from that referendum campaign and since that this party is united.


I know this party is strong. You've only got a look at the by-elections


week after week in Kent to see that since the referendum, Ukip is


winning and there are millions of people out there who now identify as


Ukip voters. They believe in us, they trust us, they think we're


speaking up for them, and the fact that we've changed the centre of


gravity in British politics, the fact that many of the things that


we've campaigned on, whether it is grammar schools or foreign aid or


whatever it may be, the fact the others are talking about it doesn't


mean they're going to deliver it, and it is us that has to keep


pushing all of those agendas. Not only are there millions of people


out there that feel loyal to us but I don't think that the harvest of


votes that we could potentially get from the Labour Party has really


even started yet. In many ways, Jeremy Corbyn is a


very decent unprincipled man -- decent and principled. But he


doesn't believe in Britain. He doesn't even want to sing the


national anthem. He flunked it, didn't he, when it came to the


referendum? And I think we've got fantastic potential in Wales, the


Midlands and the North and elsewhere, in picking up Labour


votes. And believe me, if Brexit doesn't mean Brexit, then I think


there will be a very large number of Conservatives who will say, "There


is only one party that we can support", and I think we'll judge


whether Brexit means Brexit, for me, on three very simple measures. By


the time next general election comes along, will we have back our


territorial fishing waters around the coast the United Kingdom?


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Will we be outside of the single


market, so that the 90 descent of our businesses that don't trade with


Europe don't get regulated by Europe? -- 90%. And above all, the


acid test of Brexit, the only time we will really know... You might


have seen this before, actually! The only time we will know that Brexit


means Brexit is when that has been put in the bin and we get back a




And I have a feeling they're not going to deliver all of that, and


I'm certain they won't deliver it unless Ukip is strong and fighting


hard in every single constituency in this country. As I say, we won the


war, we must now win the peace. For my part, today closes the chapter on


what has been a pretty extraordinary few years. I honestly, looking back,


could never really have dreamt we would achieve what we have. I have


put absolutely all of me into this. APPLAUSE


I literally couldn't have worked any harder or couldn't have been more


determined. In a sense, I guess it's been my life's work to try to help


get this party to this point. I frankly don't think I can do any


more. I think, folks, I've done my bit.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE And as I... But I'm not giving up on


politics completely. As I say, I will support the new leader. I'm


going to continue to lead a group in the European Parliament.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Sitting next to John Claude Juncker!


And making my constructive contributions. And I intend this


autumn to travel around some other European capitals to try and help


independence and democracy movement in those countries, to.


And who knows, I may even go back to the United States of America at some


point between now... So I'm going to be engaged in political life without


leading a political party and its going to leave me freer, less


constrained LAUGHTER


from now on, I'm really going to speak my mind.


APPLAUSE I said as I toured the country on


that wonderful open top bus and met thousands of you out there... I


said, "I want my country back" and now, folks, I want my life back. I


want to thank everybody for the massive contribution that so many


thousands of you have made to help me in doing this job, to helping us


change the course of British history. Thank you.


CHEERING AND APPLAUSE STUDIO: Well, we think the speech


has come to an. It was interesting, he didn't end on


a massive prorogation, it ended in quite a distinctive way. It was a


speech of Mr Farage's greatest hits. Winning the last European elections,


with more MEPs by far than any other party, getting nearly 4 million


votes in the general election, culminating, of course, in forcing


the Tories to have the referendum and then winning that referendum for


Brexit. He said Ukip still had a future and we can summarise that is


keeping the Government's feet to the fire to make sure it gets a hard


Brexit deal in the coming negotiations. "We've won the war, we


must now win the peace," said Mr Farage, and it was interesting that


he point of the party in the direction of what he called the


harvest of votes from the Labour Party that was in its grasp, I think


referring to the number of seats in the North of England where the


current Labour leadership is not that popular and where Ukip is


second in a number of these constituencies. That would seem to


be Mr Farage's target. It is his advice for the future leader. He


says he's still going to be around. He said to much laughter that he was


for once going to speak his mind in the future, where's I think most


Ukip party members will think that what they liked about Mr Farage was


that he did speak his mind, often in a way that was outside the


Westminster consensus and the Westminster bubble, as it is often


called. So that was Nigel Farage giving his final speech as leader to


the Ukip conference in Bournemouth. Quite a short speech. Other party


leaders could take notes on that! Douglas Carswell, your thoughts?


Credit where it's due, he pushed for a referendum. Credit where it's due.


How big media you think there is for Ukip, these are his words but my


words, but I think it sums up what you say, to keep the Government's


fee to the fire when it comes to the Brexit negotiations? It is


important, and we need to make sure, particularly in seats where Labour


MPs haven't reconciled themselves to the referendum outcome, we'd need to


be the force prepared to do that. There is a post-Brexit agenda for us


as well and I hope our new leader will see us develop a post Brexit


agenda on issues other than immigration as well.


Let's get further reaction now from the Ukip MEP Tim Aker -


Welcome to the programme. Now that your side has won the referendum,


what is the point of Ukip? Well, to keep the Government's feet to the


fire and make sure Brexit means Brexit. Only a few weeks ago Theresa


May said this result means we should have only some control over


immigration, when it was meant to be the Government at Westminster


deciding what the policy on immigration should be. If we are in


the position now where we can shape our future, post-referendum and make


sure we get the Brexit deal with the people wanted, gives Ukip are very


strong arm. How much video have the Government won't deliver on what's


being called a hard Brexit? I'm worried that the shambles of the


Labour Party will allow them to go soft on it, but I think there are


some genuine Eurosceptics that have been promoted that have to deliver


now. It's on their careers whether they do it or not, and their


reputation, and they will be judged by it. Other than that, is that


really the sole purpose of Ukip now, to try and keep the Government


honest when it comes to the Brexit negotiations? That is it? Still a


one note song? I think at the national level you could say that,


but we are seeing, since the referendum, Ukip wins at local


government level. In my constituency of Berwick we topped the poll for


the third year running and are getting more people coming to us


from all parties voting for us because of the help we have given


them. I think if Ukip branches on council groups take that message


out, we can help you and you with problems on things like housing,


like the Lib Dems used to do, that Douglas does very well in his


constituency constituency, then we can get more votes. Douglas Carswell


wants to turn you into a free libertarian society, how do you


think that will resonate in Labour constituencies in the North of


England? I think when Douglas talks about direct democracy on giving


people more choice over their lives, I don't think anyone could disagree


with that. I think we have to make sure the Conservatives don't go down


the routes they did where they tried to cut tax credits, where we're


going to get a lot of people complaining over this page to state


policy, which is basically a poor tax, a levy on council tenants, when


you think they are the people you would want to tax the least. It is


consistent with our policies to take the poorest out of income tax


altogether and I look forward to discussing the way forward with


Douglas and other colleagues. It doesn't sound like you are exactly


singing from the same hymn sheet. And it didn't sound Mr Mr Farage


cares whether Douglas Carswell stays in the party not, what is your view?


Douglas is an Essex MP. I went up to campaign for him and he came down


when I won my seat in a valley. It would be foolish to say there


haven't been disagreements, but you don't win the next war by fighting


the last one. We will get a new leader today. I want to see the


party come together, re-energise for the fight ahead. Our viewers will


have noticed, and I'm sure Douglas Carswell noticed as well, you didn't


answer my question by saying, of course we regard Mr Carswell as an


integral part of the future of Ukip and want him to stay. Why didn't you


say that? I didn't say that because it's a


given. He is the Ukip MP and I look forward to sitting next him in the


House of Commons after the next election. Well said! Are you in


danger of blowing an historic opportunity here? Nigel Farage in


his speech referred to the harvest of Labour votes that was within


Ukip's grasp, referring most of all, I think, to the North of England,


where the greatest inroads could be made. And yet we've had your former


head of media on this programme this morning saying you are in a


catastrophic mess. She's defected. The former party director has


defected. You have a minor civil war going on in Wales. Your inability to


get your act together, you could blow it, couldn't you?


All parties have this, and is very sad to see Alex go. She is very


talented and I wish all the best. She is welcome back, if she wants to


return at any time in the future. All parties have this. It's been


very disappointing to see. On the upside, we are winning by-elections,


we won one in Maidstone and won a council seat in Basildon before the


referendum. There are ups as well as downs. All parties get this, it is


unfortunate, but I hope this conference will bring everyone


together, that we can look at the big opportunities ahead for us,


unite behind a new leader and make those inroads. It is not just in


Labour seats. Brexit managed to get people who haven't voted in any


election before to the ballot box, they registered and voted and know


where their polling station is. I'm sure we can get more MPs that the


next election. Stick with us if you will. I want us to go to our


reporter in Bournemouth because she has some activists who were


listening to this speech. We will see what they made of and then come


back to you. It was quite an emotional moment. It


brought a bit of a tear to your eye, didn't it, that speech? It certainly


did. Nigel will be a hard act to follow. We are sorry he's going,


really. Is he really going, that is the big question, do you think he's


really going? No. You are not the first person to say that to me. Why


not? He has spent so much time in politics, you can't just walk away


from it. He has too much charisma. It is the end of an era as far as


Ukip is concerned. Are you a bit worried? We will find out this


afternoon on your next leader is, well that worry you? There is nobody


in Conservatives or Labour who can stand up to Nigel's share presence.


Whoever the new leader is doesn't have a chance. All we can do is


support whoever it is an move on from here. I will leave you to it


and work my way through the crowd. We have Bill Etheridge, one of the


candidates for leadership. What did you make of the speech? Typical


Nigel, great. Lots of laughs and passion and a tear in the eye at the


end. His voice broke a bit at the end? He has been a great leader for


us and achieved wonderful things. We find out in an hour or so who the


next leader is, it could be you. How would you come out after a speech by


that? It's like being the best man after a good father of the bride


speech? You can never compete with Nigel, it's impossible. All I intend


to do is thank everyone and outline the positive future and policies.


New policies, economics. We for one battle and won it, let's move onto


the next. We are a proper political blood, not just about the EU. We


will see. -- proper political party. Over here we have some more people


who want to tell me what they thought of Nigel Farage's speech.


His speech was fantastic but in my opinion I don't think you should be


leaving, I think you should still be on stage and forcing the issue. We


only halfway there. Lots of people have been telling me that over the


course of the conference, even this morning. Is he going? At the moment


we are under the impression the years. But let's hope he isn't! He


has done it before. Let's hope he does it again because we need him.


The words that Brexit means Brexit by Theresa May are being watered


down day by day and the fight is not over. We won the battle but haven't


got the piece. It is a bit like Libya and Iraq. You can't just go in


there and win the war, you have to make sure you have a plan B


afterwards. I think we have a long way to go to get the Brexit 17


million people voted for. There wasn't a plan B in Iraq. The view of


some of the activists and delegates, they don't think Nigel Farage is


necessarily going anywhere, at least not without making a comeback at


some stage. STUDIO: On the assumption he is going, in an hour


we will know who the new leader will be, who is it going to be? I think


the smart money would be an Diane James. The best-known name here


within Ukip, the best-known person who would be ready to take on. Even


talking to tell Etheridge, I think essentially that's what even some of


the candidates here think. There is a suggestion Lisa Duffy, another of


the candidates, she might make it a bit tough for Diane James. She is


the candidate that the likes Suzanne Evans was backing, on a slightly


different camp to Nigel Farage. The camp, essentially, that's not the


Nigel Farage royalists. A suggestion she may have done well enough. Not


sure, to be honest. Diane James didn't go to any of the hustings.


There is a sense among the delegates she could have made a bit more than


ever but she ran her own campaign and did travel the country and do


her own speeches and campaigning. As I say, we've talked a lot about the


divisions within his party. Those are essentially the two front


runners but I think it will be Diane James. Thank you. The Ukip faithful


in Bournemouth. Let me check we still have Tim Aker, yes, we do. You


are a supporter of Diane James. The favourite to win. But if some of the


lowest potential hanging fruit for you are among working-class


disillusioned Labour voters in the north, is Diane James not a little


bit to Home Counties to appeal to the North, to southern? Well... We


have a former city trader who is popular in the north as he is in the


south that just left as the leader. When people see Diane James they get


to know her and know her agenda, anywhere is open to Ukip now. We


couldn't see her. A great team of candidates. We didn't get to see her


because my understanding is she didn't do hustings or television


appearances in this leadership campaign, why is that? She came to


Thurrock and spoke to about 80 members, which is more than some of


the hustings where getting. She didn't do the dates... I don't


believe so. Why? -- debates. I personally think if I had been in


her position I would have gone to some of them. But voting is closed,


people have made up her mind and if people didn't want to vote for a


because she didn't turn up, they won't have voted for her. We will


know how that goes with the result in half an hour's time. One of the


benefits of a leadership campaign is those who are not widely known in


the country become more widely known, because there are lots of


debates, TV cameras are fair, the radio is there, you get big


audiences. Most people in Britain hadn't heard of Owen Smith until the


Labour leadership contest, a lot more people know him now. The same


could have been said for Diane James. Not nearly as well-known as


Nigel Farage but she chose, for the wider public, to remain invisible


during the campaign. It seems a strange strategy for someone who


wants to put Ukip further the map. She was meeting members, holding


events where members were free to go to and talking to the electorate,


which were Ukip members. If she does win, you will be seeing a lot more


of her. When the public know her, get to see her platform and


priorities, I think they will seek Ukip will go from a 13% party to 23%


party, especially if Theresa May doesn't give us the Brexit 17.4


million people voted for. Tim Aker in Bournemouth, thank you for


joining us. Douglas Carswell, we learn that Ukip's largest donor is


setting up a new campaign group. Describing it as a right-wing


momentum, describing the grass roots movement of the Labour left, is a


good thing? I'm not sure momentum is the model to follow. They have


created a situation where some very shrill and certain people in social


media to assert things that take the party, in the case of the Labour


Party, in a direction which makes it less appealing to swing voters. But


if a private individual member of the party wants to set up an


initiative, great, but ultimately if you are part of the party you have


to support the party. If he's talking about a right wing


Momentum, I would suggest encapsulated in that... It is a


shorthand, I understand... It certainly, I would suggest, doesn't


imply support for the direction that you would like to take Ukip. I'm in


favour of the direction of winning over voters and having won voters in


the past two Parliamentary elections as the Ukip candidate, I would


suggest that, actually, shrill certainty is not the way forward. If


you look at what the Labour Momentum movement is doing, it is making the


Labour Party less appealing and less able to win seats. If we were to


imitate that, we would be imitating all that is bad about the left. We


should be offering something very, very different and that is offering


people the alternative to the shrill certainty is that party activists


sometimes espouse. Nathan Gill, who was, I think, your leader in Wales,


though things change so much with Ukip it is hard to Kubot, who I


think is now an independent in the Welsh Assembly, he said there needs


to be, quote, a bloodbath in Ukip after this leadership election, that


there are who have senior positions who are, quote, not fit to run a


village fete. I'm not sure it is helpful to talk about a bloodbath.


We certainly need reform, we need to change. It would be helped lift we


had party strategists who knew how to count, it would be helpful if we


have systems in place... Who has not been able to count? Look at our


success in the last general election. Our strategy was not


entirely successful. It is helpful, I think, if you have a party where


the structures on the discipline in the organisation are bigger than any


one person. That allows you to have rigour and consistency. Many


occasions during the EU referendum, the by-elections, the General


Election, I was struck by the central importance of data. Politics


isn't about just winging it, about deciding what appeals to you, it is


about looking at hard data and looking at the maths and seeing


where it is you need to put your message and your resources, and


that's something that many of the big parties are very bad at doing.


That's what they are doing in America at the moment. They are very


professional at that. I'd like to think we did a bit of that in


Clacton and I like to think that you can do this and it is a much more


effective way of winning votes than just making noise on Facebook. Do


you think, if it is Diane James, will you get on better with her than


Nigel Farage? Very much so. She came to campaign in the election. The


thing I have in common with is, both of us have stood in by-elections, I


won, she lost, but we understand what needs to be done. Thanks for


with us. And there's full coverage


of today's Ukip conference, including the result


of their leadership election at 1.30 this afternoon,


on BBC Parliament. Coming up in a moment,


it's our regular look at what's been For now, it's time to say goodbye


to Douglas Carswell. So, for the next half an hour we're


going to be focussing on Europe. We'll be discussing the EU's


position on Brexit negotiations, proposals for EU armed forces


and whether the Commission's plan for free Wi-Fi can help


re-invigorate the European Union. First, though, here's our guide


to the latest from Europe We learned that the EU's auditors


opposed Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU in 2006, over concerns


they couldn't spend funds properly. The two countries joined


anyway in 2007. It's Budapest versus


the Grand Duchy, as the Foreign Minister of Luxembourg suggested


Hungary should be suspended, maybe even thrown out


of the union, for failing European Commission President


Jean-Claude Juncker used his State of the Union Address to warn that


Brexit presented an existential crisis to the EU, but he had big


ideas too, like free EU wide file -- Wi-Fi for every city


and village by 2020. And goodbye Frontex,


hello European Border Member states have approved


the creation of a new 1500 strong force, which will take


to the seas in October. And with us for the next 30


minutes, I've been joined by the Conservative MEP


Jacqueline Foster and Let's take a look at one of those


stories in more detail - that's plans by the European


Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker for free


Wi-Fi in every village, Is it too cynical just to look at


that as a gimmick? Not at all because I think it was a gimmick. We


have somebody who is in charge of the European Commission standing up


doing a state of the union address. We have challenges on immigration,


we have member states with problems, banking problems, in Italy,


unemployment. A key player has left the European Union, ie we are


leaving, the UK, and then partway through the speech he starts talking


about Wi-Fi and, ultimately, it's all about more Europe and I just


found it absolutely astonishing, so it's not at all cynical. What powers


does the European Commission have to deliver free Wi-Fi to every village


in Europe? They don't have the power. Very few, if any. It would be


nice if we could have it! It would be nice. I don't think we're going


to get free Wi-Fi in every public park in 20 countries for 120 million


euros. 27 countries now! Or even five countries, to be honest, for


that kind of money. Clearly, it was a bit of a gimmick, although, to be


fair, the speech is kind of the equivalent of a party conference


speech... So not serious? It's a bit of a laundry list, it's got to have


something for everybody. He did talk about serious themes and he also


threw in a gimmick. But I've got to say, coming hard on the heels of the


more serious and equally unedifying climb-down on roaming charges from


last week, it seemed like an odd place for them to go. Well that


seems... One of the things we heard during the referendum, one of the


benefits of the EU, would be the roaming charges, which used to be


huge. But I saw earlier this week that apparently Mr Juncker, because


he hadn't been properly consulted other papers have come to him


properly, that these plans to improve the roaming charges have


been sidelined. Is that right? Possibly. I rest my case. I've been


there for an awfully long time, since 1999 and, fine, so a committee


looked at roaming charges and how expensive they were. Then there was


the consideration if it was OK for us if we were travelling that our


mobiles were a bit cheaper, but were the citizens of the United Kingdom


then paying for that, because their costs might go up? So, really, if I


may just bring this back, whether it was roaming charges or Wi-Fi, this


was a state of the union speech, with huge issues, huge pressures on


security, defence, immigration, and he's talking about this. It was


absolutely ludicrous and if we had the President of the United States


doing a state of the union, or a British Prime Minister doing the


state of the United Kingdom or another leader in another country, I


doubt whether any of them would be talking about Wi-Fi. I rest my case


on that one. To be fair, though, I remember one of, or probably more


than one of Tony Blair's at the conference speeches where he


couldn't do any wrong was the most popular man of the country and every


speech he gave was at Epoque making triumph and they were always


littered with a complete of every school and an information


superhighway, broadband infrastructure. But that was a party


conference. Was completely different. I think they are quite


similar. We shall see. I guess neither of you are going to take on


a bet of 100 quid that we won't have free Wi-Fi in 2020.


So, the leaders of EU member states are meeting


All the leaders, that is, except Theresa May.


It's the first summit to exclude the UK since June's referendum


and will see the ongoing EU members begin to consider what the Union


will look like after the United Kingdom leaves.


Clearly there's much to get through before that


happens, so what do we know about the EU's negotiating position?


Well, the European Commission has appointed former French


commissioner Michel Barnier as its chief negotiator.


The European Parliament has its own negotiator, too -


former Belgian PM and EU federalist Guy Verhofstadt.


EU commission president Jean-Claude Juncker


told MEPs on Wednesday that the UK cannot be part of the single market


He also said that he wanted Brexit talks to start


But former EU Council President Herman Van Rompuy told the BBC that


substantive negotiations are unlikely to start


until after the German elections next year.


They are not until September next year.


Let's talk to our Europe correspondent Damian Grammaticus,


who is at that meeting in Bratislava.


The purpose of this meeting originally was to begin to sketch


out what the EU 27's negotiation position would be but I get the


impression there are so many other problems crowding in on the EU at


the moment that that is not the only subject being discussed there.


You're right, it is not really the subject being discussed at all. They


are going to discuss the political fallout, if you like, from the


Brexit wrote but what they'd always said, actually, was that this summit


was going to be about... Not about Brexit itself but about charting a


way forward for the EU after Brexit, so this was very clearly meant to be


meant as a signal that 27 nations without the UK here, without a


British Prime Minister, are meeting around the table, setting the agenda


for the future, and that's going to be broad brush strokes but very


clearly what they want to do is to try to address the underlying issues


that led to Brexit, so in the broadest possible level, what they


mean by that is that they see a threat from this rising tide of euro


scepticism and they want to reinvigorate the EU, try to


reconnect with European people. At around that table now of 27, with


Britain not being there, it would be fair to say that there are deep


divisions among the 27. There is a group of East Europeans who take a


very different view from what you might call the club Med group which,


in turn, is very different from the Nordic and Northern group, which


sometimes can include France or France may sometimes be in the Club


Med group, even to such a stage that we've just had this week the


Luxembourg Foreign Minister call for the expulsion of Hungary. So even


without us, they're not that united, are they? No, and the leaders


themselves know this. They themselves have all been morphing


into their castle saying that what they have to do is show a message of


unity to try to find the areas they agree on and interesting you


mentioned Oxenberg - the Luxembourg Prime Minister walking in today


said, we need to remember that we agree on 90% of things and there is


10% are things we don't agree. He was dismissing the idea that there


is this crisis in the EU. He was saying, keep an eye on the bigger


picture, on the fact that in many areas the EU delivers for people but


in the areas that matter in some ways at the minute, whether crises


are focused, migration and border security, economic issues, growth


and jobs, there are very different views, as you say, between the more


austerity minded North and the southern European countries and also


between the East, who want more controls on migration and are not


willing to take refugee quotas and the bigger countries in the west


that want them. All sorts of divisions. I must say the castle


looks brilliant behind you! We'll let you get on and find out what's


happening in the rooms there. We're joined now by the Ukip


MEP William Dartmouth. He is part of our discussion. There


he is. Good day! It looks like a lovely day down in Bournemouth.


Stick with us. It is a beautiful day. You ought to be here! They


don't let me out very often these days, I'm afraid! Let me ask you, is


it not, Sion Simon, going to take a long time? The British Government is


just at the foothills of what its negotiating position will be. We


still have no idea. And the Europeans may actually be further


behind, that they have no idea what their negotiating position will be.


I've never come across anything in my... I'm 47 and I've never seen


anything in which everybody has got so little idea, still, on getting on


for three months of the referendum. I don't think the British Government


has got the slightest idea what it's doing, neither the Prime Minister


nor any of the secretaries of State has said anything coherent about


Brexit at all and I don't think it's any different at all in the


commission or the other member states. Everyone I talk to, it is


complete chaos and blackness and confusion. It has really see maybe


wonder what it used to be like in the war and I've concluded that


there was probably a much greater sense of purpose and understanding


what we were doing actually in wartime than this Brexit.


William Dartmouth, are you concerned about the lack of clarity? How long


can this continue? The principal reason there is a lack of clarity is


Cameron was born government irresponsibly made no preparations


at all. -- Osborne but hopefully one day I get some coverage on the BBC


for what I've written. What is necessary if there should be a


supremacy of English law, controlling our borders and a return


of fishing and no contributions to the European Union budget. As an


absolute minimum. Otherwise it isn't a proper Brexit at all, which people


voted for. Is that English law going to be supreme in Scotland as well? I


think we can have an interesting discussion about the difference


between Scots and English law. I think the Scots would want their law


to prevail over European law. You may have to go back and rewrite that


bit of your paper, before we talk about it any further, to get it


right. At the moment we seem to be in a situation where, particularly


on the European side, there is a kind of sticking out... Not a


bargaining position, but a bargaining attitude. Michel Barnier,


a well-known anti-Brit is appointed. Guy Verhofstadt, who loves to tangle


with the Brits as well, and Mr Jean-Claude Younger. Eyes and


suggest all of this is pretty meaningless because it is the


Council of ministers tasked with the negotiations, and above all that


means Mr Tusk and Angela Merkel. I think that is a fair point to make.


I think what is particularly ridiculous about all of this is the


voters have spoken. Whether other member states, countries, like it or


not, that was the decision taken by the UK. I do not believe it's in the


interests of the other member states to end up having a virtual civil war


with the UK, determining what the outcomes should be from the


negotiation. I feel slightly reassured in terms of Donald Tusk


and their meeting today. I think genuinely the other member states,


albeit with different pressures, want to try and get some decent


conclusions. But when you look at the message, and if we put


Jean-Claude Juncker one side. As you said, Michel Barnier to be the


negotiator from the commission's side. And Guy Verhofstadt, who can't


stand us, who can't stand us even lessons are conservative political


group that wiped out in the last European election. Guy Verhofstadt,


it's like putting an arsonist in charge of a firework factory. If we


want to be grown up on this we need a good, sensible, well constructive


debate from all parties. There is a lot riding on this from our partners


as well. Let me go back to William Dartmouth in Bournemouth. Is there


not a danger, from your point of view, at the moment there is clearly


a vacuum, a vacuum on the British side and the European side as well.


Let's stick to the British side. The longer you allow a vacuum to


persist, isn't there a danger that forces start to fill it over which


you have no control and the Government has no control, and that


people begin to get disillusioned and wonder, is it going to happen or


isn't it going to happen? How long can we go on like this? That is


actually a very perceptive question. First of all, the appointment of


Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstadt is an attempt to fill in that vacuum


and not very helpful at all. It is posturing for position that doesn't


belong in a serious way. The fact of the matter is that because no


preparations were made, it is in one sense reasonable that a little bit


of time is taken. But it shouldn't really be so very much longer. I


must make the point that we should commit to the UK leaving the single


market, because as long as we stay in the single market, the 85% or


more of the British economy, which doesn't export to the EU countries,


is nonetheless bound by the whole panoply of EU regulation. We will


leave it there. I think that is very important it is clearly understood.


You have made it clear. No doubt that will be part of the debate if


and when the Government finally tells us what its bargaining


position is going to be as talks get underway. William Dartmouth in


Bournemouth, thank you. It's got its own court,


civil service and parliament - With the UK's imminent departure,


there's a renewed push for further integration amongst


the remaining members - including proposals


for EU armed forces. The prospect of an EU


army was a hot topic You are being asked to make


a decision that is irreversible. We wake up on Friday,


we don't like it and we're They lied about the European army,


because we've got a veto over that. Our European partners were not


going to change course. They're not changing


course on anything. They're still progressing


with the European army plans. Everything suggests ever closer


union is still on the cards. The UK always stood in the way


of greater military cooperation within the EU but June's referendum


result has removed a major obstacle, clearing the way for European


leaders keen on more military integration to pursue


their ambitions. TRANSLATION: We should work


towards a common military force and this should be


in complement with Nato. Forces from separate member states


are already working together. Operation Sophia tackling people


smuggling in the Mediterranean Those backing more integration argue


it would be more effective against threats both


within and beyond EU borders. I think the first challenge we face


is terrorism but it's also crises, and very deep crises,


in the Middle East, near East, These are challenges that we can


tackle as Europeans And could closer coordination lead


to an EU army? I really think that national armies


are not from this time any more. I don't think Germany


will invade Belgium, so my opinion is that


really in the long term, it should be a European defence,


a European army, with one headquarters, one military command


and one political control. Now Britain with its veto is out


of the way, other countries who are opposed to closer military


integration, including historically neutral Sweden


and Ireland, are concerned. The European Union is


a series of member states who cooperate with each other


on various different areas. We're not all the same,


we're not homogenous. We have different histories,


and therefore having the single foreign policy,


single defence policy, it doesn't make sense and in fact,


actually puts citizens Ireland's history is


as a neutral country. Friday's summit in Bratislava


is likely to address faster deployment of forces overseas,


coordinating strategic assets such as planes and helicopters,


and sharing data from But getting more information


from senior European politicians I just want to know,


following the Brexit vote, We're working on the European


defence together. And the idea of fighting under


the EU flag, rather than separate Our armies are already


coordinating in the fields, in the battlefield, and,


you know, we're talking about dying for Europe,


fighting for Europe, but what were we fighting


for when we were fighting It was not under the European flag,


it was under the Nato flag. The people who are in the military,


they know what they Military cooperation could just


be the start. Now that the UK with its many fears


and objections is leaving, the EU may look for ever closer


union in other areas, too. Emily reporting bringing you the


news in that report that Germany is not going to invade Belgium. They


can rest easy in Brussels after that scoop. When interviewers like myself


raise the prospect of a European army, more integration during the


referendum, we were assured it was a pipe dream, it was Brexit


propaganda, it was never going to happen. Well, there are moves


towards it. I never thought it wouldn't necessarily happen. I think


they've moved very quickly. Again, it sounds like another gimmick. It's


a headline grabber and the only thing it would do is undermine Nato.


I think that the European Union have had defence on the cheap for


decades. From the Americans. Absolutely. Everything the Americans


do is wrong, but by the same token they were quite happy for the


Americans to assist. There are many member states who have contributed


financially, I think, very little to any budget, and so the fact they


want their own military headquarters, which would undermine


Nato, when we already have great cooperation, I think again is just


another story. The Americans are putting Europe under great pressure


to contribute more. America contributes 70% of Nato's


capabilities, higher than in the Cold War, even though the threats


are not the same. I don't understand how Europe could ever do that and


afford to build a separate command structure and common defence force?


I don't understand it either. I think the discussion that the


Americans want is a reasonable one and it should be about European


countries, member states of the EU and non-member states, European


countries paying an equal share intimate are making a fairer


contribution to Nato. But I think that is less likely post Brexit.


Take us out and it's more likely it will happen. Surely if there was a


European force it wouldn't be a European force but a French force?


Without Britain the only real military that matters in Europe is


the French? They would dominate the German forces. Half of them don't


work, don't spend money on defence. The French, other than ourselves,


are the only European country with formidable defence capabilities?


Absolutely, and France had nothing to do with Nato for years. They've


only recently come back in. I think with the French... I think they are


quite nervous about all of this. French? Absolutely. They will be


dumped with a lot of this. Unless this exit strategy is done in such a


grown-up way, where Britain will still play a key part in the


security of Europe. I think they could have a headquarters in


uniforms but without having a significant army. It is on the


agenda. That is all for now, goodbye.


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