28/10/2016 Daily Politics


28/10/2016

Carolyn Quinn with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:36.:00:39.

The Government says it hasn't promised extra cash to Nissan,

:00:40.:00:42.

after the car maker announced it would boost

:00:43.:00:44.

Theresa May says she's delivering the 2015 Conservative manifesto,

:00:45.:00:52.

but after the government confirms it's ditching

:00:53.:00:55.

another Cameron policy - this time on schools.

:00:56.:00:59.

Do the PM's policy U-turns amount to more than just a bit of tweaking?

:01:00.:01:05.

After weeks of wrangling, the Belgian region of Wallonia

:01:06.:01:08.

drops its opposition to a trade deal between Canada and the EU.

:01:09.:01:13.

So what does this mean for future trade deals?

:01:14.:01:22.

And after Jeremy Corbyn compares Theresa May with Baldrick

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from Blackadder, what makes a good political insult?

:01:29.:01:30.

We've got our guide to the top five best ever.

:01:31.:01:36.

All that in the next hour, and with us for the first half

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of the programme today, Jenni Russell, who writes for

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the Times and the Evening Standard, and the Sun's political

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Let's kick off with the question of what assurances the Government

:01:50.:01:57.

gave to Nissan to ensure the Japanese company would commit

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to continued investment in their Sunderland factory.

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Last night, the Business Secretary, Greg Clark, insisted there was no

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One of the things that we have committed to do as part

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of our industrial strategy is to build on our strengths, to make

:02:13.:02:15.

sure our universities and our research institutions work

:02:16.:02:18.

Hang on, sorry, I must interrupt you.

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Are you saying that you said to Nissan in Japan that

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you, we're going to do development work on electric cars

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and therefore you can do two new models here

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It's a big problem, and I've referred to it

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You never promised them a cheque book, nothing like that?

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There is no cheque book, I don't have a cheque-book.

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The important thing is they know that this is a country

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in which they can have confidence that they can invest.

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That was the assurance on the understanding that they had,

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and they have invested their money on that basis.

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We've been joined by Labour's Shadow International Trade

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Hello. Would you like to congratulate the business secretary

:03:07.:03:19.

for keeping Nissan in the UK, safeguarding 7000 jobs in Sunderland

:03:20.:03:22.

and keeping his cheque-book in his pocket? I think it's wonderful that

:03:23.:03:31.

Nissan is going to build two cars in the UK. There will be 40,000 people

:03:32.:03:35.

who slept more soundly last night knowing that their mortgages were

:03:36.:03:39.

going to be paid at the end of the month, their rents were going to be

:03:40.:03:42.

paid, that they have jobs and security for the future. So you

:03:43.:03:48.

would do the same? The problem is we don't know what the same is. The

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question that Greg Clark so judiciously avoided answering is

:03:54.:03:58.

what is the support and assurances that have been promised? He said in

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the letter that he wrote there were some assurances. What we need to

:04:04.:04:08.

know is, is this generally for the industry? And as Jim Farley of Ford

:04:09.:04:15.

has said, you can't do a deal for one and not for the other. We have

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to know. And actually, if there is money involved, even if its

:04:23.:04:27.

compensation in the future, if the tariffs remain in place, we do need

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to know what is happening with public money and public resources.

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Do you suspect that is what has happened? I am not going to make

:04:35.:04:41.

accusations. What I do know is what is in the public domain. Letters

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were written, people were dispatched to Japan. And the chief executive of

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the company had said only a couple of weeks ago, given that he needed

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to make investment decisions, he had to have a deal about compensation

:04:59.:05:03.

for any tariffs that would arise as a result of us leaving the EU. He

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said Nissan Micra not invest unless the government gave compensation for

:05:10.:05:16.

costs related to new tariffs. What will you say to Greg Clark? What

:05:17.:05:21.

assurances are you seeking from the government today? What I am saying

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to Greg Clark is, show us the letter. If this is simply a letter

:05:25.:05:32.

that doesn't promise anything, that is unusual, out of the ordinary, or

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any more than warm words about supporting the sector in general,

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there is no need to hide it. What is the secrecy Gyor? This is the point.

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-- what is the secrecy here? The Times reports that the letter was

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regarded by Nissan as they promised they would not have to bear the cost

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of punitive tariffs on car exporter if Britain leaves EU customs error

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-- area. They seem to have had sight at least of this letter. You want to

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see it yourself? I think the public have a right to see it. And

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certainly every other business chief executive, not only in the

:06:15.:06:16.

automotive industry, will want to see it as well. What they want to

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know is why, given everybody is now behind as -- Kos exiting the EU, and

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the government is saying this is a good thing that is opening

:06:30.:06:33.

opportunities, why are we trying to bribe copies, if that is what it is?

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-- companies. This is supposed to be a new opportunity for Britain

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trading in the world. We think if we are having to persuade companies to

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stay... Are you saying other sectors will have to be equally bribed? I am

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not making an allegation of a bride, but the government has to be

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transparent. Harry Cole, what do you make of it? This will come down to

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the words remain competitive. Misano said the government has promised --

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Nissan has said the government has promised they will remain

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competitive. The government wants to support the car market and for it to

:07:23.:07:27.

remain competitive. But go back to the idea this is nothing new, that

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is the next conversation. Misano only build the plant in Sunderland

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because they were encouraged to buy the government's industrial

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strategy. The idea that was ever going to change remains to be seen.

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You are saying it is interventionism? Whether you agree

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or not, Theresa May said we need a new industrial strategy. Lo and

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behold, what we are seeing here is industrial strategy. Aren't there

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are dangers that if you intervene in one sector, other sectors say, what

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about us? That is what is so puzzling. Those of us who didn't

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want to leave the European Union because we thought it would mean a

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financial hit to the country, what will the government do? Are they

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going to subsidise agriculture? Are they going to turn to the city and

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say, if banks cannot operate, we will compensate you for your losses?

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Where do they stop? That is the problem. We do not know what has

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been promised. Nissan are quite certain it will remain profitable to

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be in the EU. The government may be promising Nissan that we will charge

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cars that are imported into this country 10% tax and we will use that

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to subsidise use. -- you. Will they do that in every sector? It would be

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impossible. Is that something to take into account, maybe you could

:09:01.:09:03.

offset one set of tariffs with another? All of us will agree that

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we do not want a tariff war. Again, let's think about the wider

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philosophy of the government. It is supposed to be free trade. One may

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question why, if we are so in favour of free trade, we are leaving the

:09:23.:09:29.

largest free-trade bloc in the entire world. That is nonetheless

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the rhetoric of the government. One has to look at that very carefully.

:09:33.:09:37.

You can see that the devaluation of the pound will also make Nissan cars

:09:38.:09:43.

produced in the UK cheaper to buy abroad as well. And I think it's not

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just looking at the 10% of tariffs that may be charged. It is also the

:09:50.:09:53.

thought perhaps that if the pound keeps sinking in value, then

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actually there will be a boost to Nissan sales. That may also have

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played some role in the decision. That is not a good indicator for our

:10:06.:10:10.

economy in general. It means that people think the value of UK plc has

:10:11.:10:17.

gone down. Is it Labour Party policy that the UK should remain a member

:10:18.:10:24.

of the single market? Its Labour Party policy that we should now

:10:25.:10:27.

leave the EU, as the people have asked. But that we should retain the

:10:28.:10:33.

best possible access for our companies. And let's not just make

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this about the big Manufacturing brands. 60% of all people employed

:10:39.:10:42.

in the private sector are employed in small and medium-sized companies.

:10:43.:10:48.

We need a strategy that works for them, not just for the big boys.

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Barry Gardiner, thank you. Now it's time for our daily quiz,

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which today relates to the announcement that Twitter

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is to close its video We thought we would take a look

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at some of the most watched vines But which of these three

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is the most viewed? Is it David Cameron checking his tie

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before an interview? Is it Ed Miliband looking

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the camera and set to music? Later in the show, we'll see

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if Jenni and Harry know Theresa May insists her government

:11:23.:11:31.

is committed to delivering David Cameron's 2015

:11:32.:11:37.

Conservative manifesto. But over the past weeks and months,

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the May government has dropped some Cameron-era policies

:11:42.:11:44.

and tweaked others. Yesterday an announcement

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was slipped out, confirming that the Education for All Bill,

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which aimed to convert all schools in England

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to academies, will be scrapped. How much has government policy

:11:55.:12:07.

changed from the programme they were elected on last year?

:12:08.:12:09.

None of the other parties could keep up with the Conservatives

:12:10.:12:11.

when their car crossed the line first in 2015.

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But government has made a number of U-turns since Theresa May

:12:14.:12:16.

replaced David Cameron in the driving seat.

:12:17.:12:18.

So what has the Prime Minister been tinkering with under the bonnet?

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She's already changed the Government's approach

:12:24.:12:25.

to tackling the deficit, abandoning George Osborne's pledge

:12:26.:12:27.

A key part of the Help to Buy scheme - another flagship Osborne policy -

:12:28.:12:37.

was also scrapped by the Chancellor, Philip Hammond, last month.

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The scheme will no longer offer mortgage guarantees to help people

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Plans to let consumers raise money by selling their pension annuities

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On education, plans were dropped last week, to make all children

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resit SAT tests at secondary school if they didn't achieve the expected

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And it was confirmed yesterday that the Government will no longer

:13:00.:13:05.

be bringing forward a previously announced Education Bill to convert

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schools to academies, clearing the way for

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So although it looks like the same Conservative car, is Theresa May's

:13:13.:13:19.

government now headed for a different destination?

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Well, here with me to discuss this further is the Conservative

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Welcome. Is Theresa May pursuing the same government programme you were

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elected on last year? The broad principles are exactly the same. We

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are committed to deficit reduction, driving School standards and having

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greater freedom in terms of provision of school. The free school

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programme will absolutely be at the centre of what the government is

:13:52.:13:55.

trying to do. But we have to appreciate we have had a huge vote,

:13:56.:14:00.

Brexit, very significant. You have a different chancellor, a different

:14:01.:14:03.

Prime Minister. That hasn't happened before. The EU referendum gives

:14:04.:14:09.

Theresa May free rein to disregard the manifesto of 2015, apart from

:14:10.:14:17.

broad principles? The EU referendum has completely changed the context

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in which government is operating. We have a series of challenging

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negotiations ahead. It is absolutely fair to see a government with

:14:25.:14:29.

different personnel have different emphases. You wouldn't expect

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anything else. It is not as if we are following a cookbook recipe

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rigidly in a nonreflective way. You have to have different people,

:14:41.:14:45.

different personalities. The party evolves. What about the people who

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voted Conservative because they like the look of the education bill,

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which has now been dropped? You were elected to expand academy schools.

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What mandate does the government now have? A couple of things. On the

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education mandatory academies, that was announced in the budget this

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year. Strangely. They all had to be by 2022. Nicky Morgan announced,

:15:16.:15:18.

when she was Education Secretary before the referendum, that the

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policy would be reversed. It was going to be watered down. It was

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watered down to the point where people like you said it was a

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U-turn. But the commitment was still there

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in the manifesto, wasn't it? The second thing I want to say, after

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I've been on this programme I'm going to come back to my

:15:41.:15:43.

constituency surgery. None of them is going to mention the fact that

:15:44.:15:47.

the manifesto commitments haven't been met on these things. Are you

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sure? While much unless they've changed. He has primed them in

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advance! Are usually get a list of what they are going to blog about.

:15:57.:16:00.

None of them are saying, we are very upset with Theresa May because she's

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not going to continue David Cameron's programme. What about

:16:04.:16:09.

economic policy. You said that you are still broadly trying to tackle

:16:10.:16:14.

the deficit. But the manifesto you were elected on clearly said, I am

:16:15.:16:19.

quoting, the only way to keep our economy secure the future is to

:16:20.:16:23.

eliminate the deficit entirely and start running a surplus, anything

:16:24.:16:26.

less would be to ignore the lessons of the past, and the surplus was to

:16:27.:16:30.

be removed into at the end of this Parliament, that is not going to

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happen now, is it, with Philip Hammond's reset of the economy.

:16:35.:16:38.

Philip Hammond has recognised the reality. I came in 2010, the plan at

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that time was to reduce the deficit to something like ?20 billion by

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2015. It's sad to say, but we missed every target in the last Parliament.

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What Philip is saying is, there was no point in setting these targets

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if, as in the last Parliament, we missed every single one. I think it

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is a more responsible approach. But, you know, there has been a

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significant shift in a number of policies. We could have included

:17:05.:17:09.

Philip Hammond's plan to stop selling shares to avoid the bank to

:17:10.:17:13.

the public. A much cooler at home to Northern Powerhouse, George

:17:14.:17:20.

Osborne's baby. Going back on plans to curb junk food advertising as

:17:21.:17:23.

part of the obesity strategy. People will be looking at this Government

:17:24.:17:27.

and thinking, it is very different, this isn't exactly what I voted for.

:17:28.:17:32.

Or are you saying, we've got a new leader, be loud and proud about it,

:17:33.:17:35.

new leader, new policies, is that what was saying? We have a new

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leader and new personalities and they have a slightly different

:17:39.:17:42.

approach. Nobody is saying, I'm not going to break the these people

:17:43.:17:49.

because they are not sticking to obesity strategy. Very few people

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will be saying that. They recognise it as a Conservative government,

:17:52.:17:53.

they look at Labour and the alternatives and say, no, thank you

:17:54.:17:57.

very much. The polling suggests that Theresa May is enjoying a honeymoon

:17:58.:18:00.

period. People are broadly supportive of what the Government is

:18:01.:18:04.

trying to do. Are you effectively saying the manifesto isn't worth the

:18:05.:18:07.

paper it is written on? No, what I'm saying is that if you have different

:18:08.:18:12.

people and you have a seismic road like Brexit, it's not surprising to

:18:13.:18:16.

see that a new leadership will have slightly different and this is

:18:17.:18:19.

impolitic -- a seismic vote. Is perhaps the issue is to have another

:18:20.:18:24.

general election, what do you think? I think Kwasi Kwarteng is absolutely

:18:25.:18:28.

right. I speak not as a Tory supporter, but it is clear that the

:18:29.:18:32.

Tories have a mandate at the moment, 40% in the polls, nobody thinks

:18:33.:18:36.

there is any serious opposition. People who are really worried about

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Brexit nevertheless do not think that any other party can takeover.

:18:39.:18:43.

They do recognise that circumstances have changed. Whether there will be

:18:44.:18:47.

another election is an interesting question. In many ways it would make

:18:48.:18:50.

the reason may's wife a great deal easier if she did, with the

:18:51.:18:56.

opposition in total disarray -- Theresa May's life. Reselection

:18:57.:19:00.

coming up and internal rows in Labour, she would get in fact a

:19:01.:19:04.

majority. On the other hand, we know she has said, I won't do this, I

:19:05.:19:08.

have a mandate, will carry on. So far she has claimed that she wants

:19:09.:19:13.

to keep her word. But the manifesto has changed. Why can't her word

:19:14.:19:19.

change on Brexit? I think the reason may is a new Prime Minister, she is

:19:20.:19:23.

clearing the way, she doesn't want to fight David Cameron's old baffles

:19:24.:19:28.

or George Osborne's all battles on academies, she wants to clear the

:19:29.:19:30.

field of battle because she is about to have a huge row over grammar

:19:31.:19:34.

schools, she has the hammer that through the House. What does annoy

:19:35.:19:37.

me a little bit about all of this is that when Theresa May stands up at

:19:38.:19:42.

Tory Party conferences saying, we're going to reform capitalism and put

:19:43.:19:45.

workers marching forwards towards Socialism together, you know! When

:19:46.:19:50.

at Miliband even hinted that the things, people like Theresa May

:19:51.:19:54.

stood up and said he was an economic threat to the nation committee is

:19:55.:19:57.

dangerous, she should not be anywhere near the leaders of power.

:19:58.:20:01.

Then they say it is all wonderful but so likes doing his policies.

:20:02.:20:05.

People get sick of it. You know, politicians attacking others. That

:20:06.:20:13.

is one of the classic divisions. Tories say, we're going to reform

:20:14.:20:17.

capitalism, and people don't get along. They are the party of

:20:18.:20:20.

capitalism, people assume they are not going to threaten it. It is only

:20:21.:20:23.

maybe that could do things like reforming welfare and the NHS will

:20:24.:20:28.

stop Iain Duncan Smith would have something to say about that! Labour

:20:29.:20:34.

can do it with less criticism. That is the issue, you can always deal

:20:35.:20:38.

more easily with things which are seen to be your natural territory

:20:39.:20:41.

that you would defend, because people don't assume that you have

:20:42.:20:47.

other territories. Your characterisation of the Prime

:20:48.:20:50.

Minister's speech is exaggerated, I think! It was very much like

:20:51.:20:59.

Miliband! She didn't say, let's march to socialism! Intervening in

:21:00.:21:06.

the energy market was Miliband policy, workers on company boards,

:21:07.:21:10.

Miliband policy, borrowing to invest, Ed Balls' policy. The Tories

:21:11.:21:16.

hammered him for it. David Cameron and George Osborne were talking

:21:17.:21:19.

about these things. They were talking about trying to make

:21:20.:21:23.

capitalism there for a broader mass of people than just a few fat cats.

:21:24.:21:28.

And thank goodness some people are finally starting to see that,

:21:29.:21:32.

especially when the Brexit vote shows that people feel that

:21:33.:21:36.

capitalism has treated them badly. Tory voters voted against those

:21:37.:21:40.

policies are the last election. We have to leave it there. Kwasi

:21:41.:21:43.

Kwarteng, thank you very much indeed.

:21:44.:21:44.

There's going to be a parliamentary by-election

:21:45.:21:46.

in Richmond, in West London, on the 1st of December.

:21:47.:21:49.

But you've probably heard enough about that in recent days.

:21:50.:21:51.

However, you probably haven't heard that there were three

:21:52.:21:53.

These were not, of course, for Westminster, but

:21:54.:21:56.

Labour held the ward of Rhyl West, in North Wales, and there were two

:21:57.:22:01.

by-elections in Rother in East Sussex - the Conservatives

:22:02.:22:05.

held Darwell, and Collington was gained by an Independent,

:22:06.:22:08.

Well, some people think that these local by-elections are a good

:22:09.:22:16.

indicator of the political parties' underlying electoral strength.

:22:17.:22:18.

Since the local elections on 5th May, there have been 139 local

:22:19.:22:26.

council by-elections held across England, Wales and Scotland.

:22:27.:22:30.

So how have the parties been getting on?

:22:31.:22:33.

The Conservatives have recorded a net loss of 14 seats.

:22:34.:22:38.

It's bad news for Labour too - they're down eight.

:22:39.:22:41.

Ukip aren't doing too well either - they've lost a total

:22:42.:22:44.

But the Lib Dems, in stark contrast, have been doing very well.

:22:45.:22:50.

And the Greens have gained one councillor.

:22:51.:23:02.

To read the runes of these local election results, we've been joined

:23:03.:23:05.

by Professor Tony Travers from Department of Government

:23:06.:23:07.

Tony Travers, you are excited by all of this, I know! Bring your

:23:08.:23:23.

excitement with you! There are local by-elections every Thursday almost

:23:24.:23:27.

all year round. It's amazing what you learn! It looks like there is

:23:28.:23:30.

one clear story coming out at least from this recent set. By-election

:23:31.:23:35.

wins for the Dems. Are they on the up? Remember, almost all of these

:23:36.:23:40.

elections will last when the Lib Dems were doing really badly during

:23:41.:23:45.

the coalition or immediately afterwards on general election day

:23:46.:23:49.

in 2015, it is a low base. On the other hand, they are doing much

:23:50.:23:53.

better, better in these by-elections than in national opinion polls,

:23:54.:23:56.

interestingly. But the other story of course is that Labour, as the

:23:57.:24:01.

main opposition party, is really not doing well at all. So if you add it

:24:02.:24:05.

all together, it does tell us something about the shifting sands

:24:06.:24:09.

underneath what becomes national politics later on. We mentioned that

:24:10.:24:18.

that Labour have lost eight councillors. The Conservatives have

:24:19.:24:20.

lost 14. Are you saying that as part of the course for the government

:24:21.:24:23.

party? The Conservatives have been in power for six and a half years

:24:24.:24:26.

now, they are going in the midterm in the second time, you would expect

:24:27.:24:29.

them to do badly in by-elections and local elections, that's what is

:24:30.:24:34.

happening. Not bad badly, in fact, in a number of by-elections there is

:24:35.:24:37.

a swing from Labour to the Conservatives underneath the overall

:24:38.:24:41.

result. But the Labour, who have now been in opposition since 2010, they

:24:42.:24:45.

really ought to be picking up not only in these local by-elections

:24:46.:24:50.

week by week, but if you go back to the May elections, the local

:24:51.:24:53.

elections this year, they didn't do nearly as well as an opposition

:24:54.:24:57.

party should have done. One or two years after a general election. If

:24:58.:25:02.

you add up the local election results, particularly once a year

:25:03.:25:05.

when they take place altogether, there are Berry good indicators of

:25:06.:25:09.

how well the party is likely to do at an election. That is the thing we

:25:10.:25:13.

always look for, that read across from success in by-elections like

:25:14.:25:16.

these across to the general election. For the Lib Dems, who are

:25:17.:25:22.

placing so much store on these by-elections and indeed the

:25:23.:25:24.

by-election coming up in Richmond, they were very pleased with their

:25:25.:25:29.

results in Witney, have they got cause to not necessarily celebrate,

:25:30.:25:32.

but to have a lot more optimism than they may have had before now? Well,

:25:33.:25:37.

less pessimism, perhaps! LAUGHTER

:25:38.:25:40.

In fairness to the Lib Dems, this is the way they built up. If you

:25:41.:25:43.

remember, the Lib Dems did really badly in the 50s and 60s, there was

:25:44.:25:48.

the old joke about how small the liberal conference was. Since then,

:25:49.:25:54.

over 60s, 70s, 80s, they built up step-by-step, pavement politics, all

:25:55.:25:57.

of that, they got to the point where in the 2010, after the 2010

:25:58.:26:02.

election, there were enough of them with the Conservatives to form a

:26:03.:26:06.

government. That proved the undoing because they were punished for that

:26:07.:26:09.

in 2015. I suspect what we are seeing is the beginning of a gradual

:26:10.:26:14.

build up step-by-step. The question is, how long will it take. The

:26:15.:26:19.

by-election in Richmond-upon-Thames is Tripoli interesting, because

:26:20.:26:21.

there is only things going on at once inside it -- Tripoli

:26:22.:26:27.

interesting. Jenni and Harry, you will be watching that. Are you

:26:28.:26:30.

anticipating, Jenni, that the Lib Dems could see an improvement? What

:26:31.:26:34.

is your reading of things? The interesting question is whether it

:26:35.:26:37.

becomes a referendum on Brexit rather than a referendum, which

:26:38.:26:41.

Goldsmith hopes it is, on Heathrow. The problem for him is that he is

:26:42.:26:45.

personally popular but his constituency voted heavily for

:26:46.:26:50.

Remain. This is Zac Goldsmith who has stood down. In order to protest

:26:51.:26:55.

about the Heathrow decision. But the one left-wing stance against him

:26:56.:26:59.

from the Lib Dems and makes it a referendum on Brexit... A hefty

:27:00.:27:03.

majority would overturn him. He has worked that seat for 12 years now

:27:04.:27:07.

and built up a very strong database, I understand, of the voters and who

:27:08.:27:15.

they are he is popular, got a whacking great majority. It is over

:27:16.:27:18.

20,000? About 23,000. They need 17% to remain. The big test in this, can

:27:19.:27:27.

Lib Dems drag off local issue? He has a local reputations is

:27:28.:27:31.

officially enough to put trust in a candidate who no one has actually

:27:32.:27:37.

heard of. Tony, what do you think? He's in a slightly difficult

:27:38.:27:41.

position. I agree with all of that, but I think opposition parties will

:27:42.:27:49.

try to say, vote against the Conservatives to show that we have

:27:50.:27:54.

opposition. I think the problem the that Goldsmith, if he has a large

:27:55.:27:58.

majority, if it were to fall, how would we read that -- the problem

:27:59.:28:01.

for Zac Goldsmith. He is trying to campaign against the airport. If

:28:02.:28:06.

that majority falls, which most people think it might, I'm not sure

:28:07.:28:09.

that would look like a resounding win against the airport. Interesting

:28:10.:28:12.

that you could have decided not to put up a candidate in that seat. --

:28:13.:28:17.

that Ukip. How unusual is it for major parties to not field

:28:18.:28:25.

candidates in important seats? It is an unusual circumstance, a

:28:26.:28:30.

by-election, Jo Cox's seat was a different kind of case. I think it

:28:31.:28:35.

is a usual, but normally in by-elections as you know, there are

:28:36.:28:39.

17 or 18 candidates, including all of our old friends who stand in lots

:28:40.:28:43.

of by-elections. It is an usual, but I think what in a sense Ukip are

:28:44.:28:48.

doing here, Labour are thinking about this, whether they should make

:28:49.:28:54.

this a fight perhaps about the EU, and about the referendum, and all of

:28:55.:28:59.

that all over again. I think they are probably thinking, let's make

:29:00.:29:02.

this as near as possible a binary choice. The question is, on what?

:29:03.:29:07.

Thank you very much. Those questions will continue.

:29:08.:29:09.

Now, how do you cut down your political enemies

:29:10.:29:11.

Well, with the acerbic wit of a great political insult, of course.

:29:12.:29:15.

But did Jeremy Corbyn's attempt at PMQs make the mark?

:29:16.:29:17.

On Monday, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told the House,

:29:18.:29:23.

and I quote, "We have a plan, which is not to set

:29:24.:29:27.

out at every stage of the negotiation the details."

:29:28.:29:31.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, Mr Speaker.

:29:32.:29:36.

I think when you're searching for the real meaning

:29:37.:29:45.

and the importance behind the Prime Minister's statement,

:29:46.:29:47.

you have to consult the great philosophers.

:29:48.:29:49.

The only one I can come up with, Mr Speaker, is Baldrick,

:29:50.:29:59.

who says, "Our cunning plan is to have no plan!"

:30:00.:30:09.

Tony Robinson afterwards said Baldrick means Baldrick!

:30:10.:30:15.

Not perhaps the most effective political insult ever.

:30:16.:30:17.

In fact, it doesn't make it into the Daily Politics'

:30:18.:30:19.

At five, well, we had to start with Winston Churchill.

:30:20.:30:26.

A politician whose stinging quips were nearly as good

:30:27.:30:29.

His all-time classic has to be the one aimed at the Labour MP

:30:30.:30:34.

Bessie Braddock, and what better way to come back when someone complains

:30:35.:30:37.

how drunk you are - "Tomorrow I shall be sober,

:30:38.:30:40.

In at number four, so who could cut Winston Churchill down to size?

:30:41.:30:46.

David Lloyd George, of course, the man who steered Britain

:30:47.:30:51.

He was talking about Churchill's reputation as a self-publicist,

:30:52.:30:55.

when he suggested the British bulldog would make a drum out

:30:56.:30:57.

of the skin of his own mother in order to sound his own praises.

:30:58.:31:01.

At three, remember when Gordon Brown entered Number Ten with a reputation

:31:02.:31:07.

for being a formidable Chancellor and everyone quite

:31:08.:31:09.

Then came the election that never was and things

:31:10.:31:15.

In the Commons, Vince Cable mercilessly summed up

:31:16.:31:18.

The House has noticed the Prime Minister's remarkable

:31:19.:31:26.

transformation in the last few weeks from Stalin to Mr Bean.

:31:27.:31:31.

In at two, they called it the Rose Garden love-in,

:31:32.:31:33.

when Nick Clegg took the Liberal Democrats into Government.

:31:34.:31:35.

But soon found himself getting all the blame and little credit.

:31:36.:31:38.

People called the Lib Dems the Conservatives' human shield,

:31:39.:31:41.

David Cameron's kind of lapdog-cum-protection device

:31:42.:31:48.

for the more difficult things that David Cameron has to do.

:31:49.:31:51.

But, taking the top spot this week, the best political insults

:31:52.:31:54.

are the ones that do lasting political damage.

:31:55.:31:56.

Michael Howard was Home Secretary in the 90s when he fell out badly

:31:57.:31:59.

with his Prisons Minister, Ann Widdecombe.

:32:00.:32:02.

She said he had "something of the night about him."

:32:03.:32:05.

A reputation that stubbornly stuck with him, and duly cost him

:32:06.:32:08.

And even when he did win the leadership six years

:32:09.:32:14.

later, people were still banging on about it.

:32:15.:32:16.

But Ann Widdecombe herself was a little coy when asked

:32:17.:32:18.

What does "something of the night" mean?

:32:19.:32:22.

I've just said to you, I don't really want

:32:23.:32:24.

Something of the night. That was one of the great insult of our time. Do

:32:25.:32:44.

you have a favourite? George Bush putting a silver foot in his mouth.

:32:45.:32:48.

When the great history books are written about Brexit, I think people

:32:49.:32:52.

will look back at Nigel Farage standing in the European Parliament

:32:53.:32:56.

and summing of really what everyone thought was, who were these

:32:57.:33:04.

unelected Eurocrats? A bit rude, but really, who are you? Eurocrats

:33:05.:33:13.

nobody voted for. As with so many things in the anti-Europe campaign,

:33:14.:33:18.

it was based on a total falsity. Was -- at the back of that shot was a

:33:19.:33:23.

man with his head in his hand who turned out to be a trained cardiac

:33:24.:33:26.

surgeon. These people had a real jobs. What about your favourite? The

:33:27.:33:34.

brilliant politico and -- political insults and those that get the heart

:33:35.:33:39.

of some weakness. Churchill said of Clement Attlee was a shebeen she's

:33:40.:33:46.

clothing. Michael foot was called Worzel Gummidge. And when Michael

:33:47.:33:51.

foot said of Norman Tebbit he was a semi-housetrained polecat, that lost

:33:52.:33:57.

an image of Tebbit in the public mind. Churchill to Bessie Braddock,

:33:58.:34:04.

that was not a need political insults, that was just a classic

:34:05.:34:08.

sexist put down of the kind Donald Trump is engaged in. I don't think

:34:09.:34:12.

it makes it into the top five political insults.

:34:13.:34:13.

It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz.

:34:14.:34:18.

The question was, which of these is the most used political vine in the

:34:19.:34:27.

UK? David Cameron is checking his tie before an interview. Is it Ed

:34:28.:34:33.

Miliband looking moody, set to music? Or is it Michael Gove

:34:34.:34:44.

clapping? The one that I would keep watching would be Michael blow. He

:34:45.:34:49.

looks like a Thunderbird puppet. The seductive Ed Miliband. Do you think

:34:50.:34:54.

there are dreamy girls who look at that? The answer is... Michael Gove.

:34:55.:35:06.

I like Michael but that is a wonderful vine.

:35:07.:35:06.

Coming up in a moment, it's our regular look at what's been

:35:07.:35:11.

For now, it's time to say goodbye to Jenni and Harry.

:35:12.:35:20.

So for the next half an hour, we're going to be focussing on Europe.

:35:21.:35:24.

We'll be discussing trade deals, big companies' tax bills,

:35:25.:35:26.

First though, here's our guide to the latest from Europe,

:35:27.:35:29.

A trade deal between the EU and Canada is back on the table

:35:30.:35:39.

after Belgian politicians agreed to last-minute concessions.

:35:40.:35:43.

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau says he is confident

:35:44.:35:46.

Meanwhile, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Sweden and Norway can

:35:47.:35:52.

extend their use of border controls, which have been in place

:35:53.:35:54.

since the summer to stem the flow of migrants.

:35:55.:35:59.

Speaking of which, Italy may veto the EU budget unless other countries

:36:00.:36:02.

PM Matteo Renzi said the likes of Hungary need to help out.

:36:03.:36:09.

Big companies like Starbucks and Apple could be subject

:36:10.:36:11.

to new EU-wide tax rules, which the Commission hopes should

:36:12.:36:15.

stop them shifting their profits around to lessen their tax bill.

:36:16.:36:19.

And the President of the European Parliament referred

:36:20.:36:21.

the altercation between Ukip MEPs Mike Hookem and Steven Woolfe

:36:22.:36:24.

Party leader Nigel Farage was not impressed.

:36:25.:36:36.

This is completely political on behalf of the European Union.

:36:37.:36:39.

Ive been joined by two MEPs, Patrick O'Flynn for Ukip,

:36:40.:36:46.

Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail -

:36:47.:36:54.

the investigations into the altercation between Ukip MEPs

:36:55.:36:55.

Let me ask you, Patrick O'Flynn, first of all, obviously there has

:36:56.:37:14.

been an internal investigation by Ukip. Now we know that the president

:37:15.:37:20.

of the European Parliament, Martin Schulz, has reported the altercation

:37:21.:37:23.

to the French state prosecutors because they watched alleged

:37:24.:37:29.

criminal activity -- there was. Is that a good thing? Another thing

:37:30.:37:34.

Martin Shields has done is prejudice any investigation by saying that in

:37:35.:37:39.

the parliament he had no doubt about Steven Woolfe's allegations. I find

:37:40.:37:44.

that very regrettable. I saw the preamble. If you read the party

:37:45.:37:52.

chairman's report thoroughly, you will see that within the room there

:37:53.:37:56.

was general understanding that Steven Woolfe had instigated this

:37:57.:38:01.

altercation. There was an understanding that he had said,

:38:02.:38:06.

let's take this outside and removed his jacket. Nobody knows what

:38:07.:38:09.

happened between the men and whether a blow was delivered? That is right.

:38:10.:38:14.

What we do know is that the next day in the Daily Mail there were quotes

:38:15.:38:18.

from Mr Woolfe saying that Mike Hookem had got the wrong end of the

:38:19.:38:22.

stick and he was not challenging him to an altercation. Within the room

:38:23.:38:27.

that was completely understood. Their work shouts. You think you

:38:28.:38:33.

represent -- reprimand from Mike Hookem is enough? Should there be

:38:34.:38:37.

further investigation? It is quite astonishing that you have two grown

:38:38.:38:42.

adults who are unable to reconcile their differences in a normal way.

:38:43.:38:47.

If you have a criminal assault taking place, wherever it is,

:38:48.:38:52.

allegedly, then it would seem normal that the authorities would want to

:38:53.:38:57.

pursue potential prosecutions were proven to be something that would be

:38:58.:39:05.

worthy of pursuing a prosecution on. Presumably we cannot leave it open

:39:06.:39:13.

to individual political parties. What does it say about the behaviour

:39:14.:39:18.

of your party at the European Parliament? The leader of the

:39:19.:39:26.

centre-right party group said Ukip members were behaving like ruffians.

:39:27.:39:35.

What it says about bus is absolutely nothing. After all, several Labour

:39:36.:39:42.

MPs got sent to prison for embezzlement in the last parliament.

:39:43.:39:46.

I would not dream of characterising them as a party and badgers. -- a

:39:47.:39:55.

party of embezzlers. You are an argumentative party, aren't you? We

:39:56.:40:01.

are a party of honest, free debate. But really, trying to characterise

:40:02.:40:06.

physical altercations or invitations, as typical of what kind

:40:07.:40:12.

of meetings we have in the European Parliament, I can assure you it is

:40:13.:40:16.

absolutely a typical. I would like some recognition by Steven Woolfe of

:40:17.:40:23.

personal responsibility and regret. You're prejudicing the outcome by

:40:24.:40:27.

saying it is his fault, aren't you? No. Mike Hookem has apologised and

:40:28.:40:32.

expressed regret. I think Steven Woolfe should do the same. You

:40:33.:40:39.

supporting Suzanne Evans? I certainly am. Paul Nuttall, she and

:40:40.:40:45.

he are close. What happens, would you switch allegiance? I'm

:40:46.:40:50.

supporting Suzanne Evans. I think she should have been allowed to

:40:51.:40:55.

stand in the last election. We have two high-calibre candidates. You

:40:56.:41:02.

didn't fancy it yourself? I see my role as advising, perhaps a

:41:03.:41:06.

spokesman, advising the leader, not actually being the leader. I have

:41:07.:41:10.

seen the pressure Nigel Farage was placed under. The sheer intensity of

:41:11.:41:12.

the job. That is not from me. After years of negotiations,

:41:13.:41:16.

a trade deal between the EU and Canada is on the verge

:41:17.:41:19.

of being approved by But it has been a bumpy few weeks

:41:20.:41:21.

for the CETA trade agreement, with politicians in the Belgian

:41:22.:41:25.

region of Wallonia refusing to agree to the deal until

:41:26.:41:28.

the very last moment. Ellie Price reports

:41:29.:41:30.

from Strasbourg. The problem is even caused Donald

:41:31.:41:44.

Tusk to warn it could be the last EU trade deal.

:41:45.:41:45.

Ellie Price reports from Strasbourg.

:41:46.:41:47.

It has cast a cloud over the European Union.

:41:48.:41:49.

A long heralded trade deal that has been agonisingly close,

:41:50.:41:51.

Ceta has been seven years in the making.

:41:52.:41:55.

Now, in order to get the go-ahead it needs the backing of all 28

:41:56.:42:02.

And it's got the backing of 27 of them.

:42:03.:42:07.

And specifically the southern part of Belgium, Wallonia.

:42:08.:42:12.

Now, that is home to around 3.5 million people, which,

:42:13.:42:14.

when you think about it, is quite a small proportion

:42:15.:42:17.

The Wallonian regional government, headed up by Paul Magnette,

:42:18.:42:28.

was worried about the implications on the environment, labour laws

:42:29.:42:30.

Concerns shared by some MEPs, who say the stalling of the deal

:42:31.:42:35.

I think that it is a good thing for the European Union,

:42:36.:42:43.

Not each member state has got the same possibility.

:42:44.:42:50.

And too often we see that our interests are not covered

:42:51.:42:58.

Others aren't so against Ceta in principle, but say this

:42:59.:43:03.

is the latest symptom of an anti-EU malaise, and must be addressed for

:43:04.:43:07.

I do see that this adds up to crisis after crisis after crisis.

:43:08.:43:19.

And people see again that the Council is not able

:43:20.:43:21.

But on trade, at the same time you see there is a lot

:43:22.:43:28.

of discussions and a lot of question marks in the NGO world,

:43:29.:43:32.

in the unions, but also in the public opinion.

:43:33.:43:35.

We needed to say stop and look at it fundamentally, and that's

:43:36.:43:40.

But those supporting Ceta say the agreement would save EU

:43:41.:43:43.

exporters 500 million euros per year, a good deal

:43:44.:43:47.

And one that is being held up by a small minority.

:43:48.:43:53.

But they say the fault lies with the Belgian constitution,

:43:54.:43:55.

and a lack of compromise on the socialist left,

:43:56.:43:58.

If there are a number of regions which have concerns then, yes,

:43:59.:44:03.

we should go back to the table and check, is this

:44:04.:44:06.

But after so many concerns have been solved, after we were able

:44:07.:44:10.

to convince so many people who had concerns,

:44:11.:44:12.

like the German Economic Minister and the Austrian Chancellor,

:44:13.:44:18.

to only mention two of them, I think if they understood

:44:19.:44:21.

what is Ceta about and what is Ceta not about, then also the region

:44:22.:44:25.

of Belgium should be able to understand this.

:44:26.:44:30.

There is renewed hope now that the deal will be signed

:44:31.:44:32.

But those frustrated by the slow progress point out that Canada

:44:33.:44:36.

is about as like-minded to most EU countries in terms of public

:44:37.:44:39.

services and environmental concerns as you can get.

:44:40.:44:45.

If the EU had such trouble making a deal work with Canada,

:44:46.:44:48.

it may not bode well for trade agreements with other countries

:44:49.:44:50.

The EU had hoped to unfurl its red carpet for Canadian Premier Justin

:44:51.:44:56.

Trudeau this week so he could sign off the deal.

:44:57.:44:59.

When he does finally make it over, it will be too late to stop

:45:00.:45:04.

the questions over the EU's ability to negotiate

:45:05.:45:07.

And we've been joined by Christophe Bondy,

:45:08.:45:18.

a former trade advisor to the Canadian government,

:45:19.:45:20.

who worked for many years on the Ceta trade deal.

:45:21.:45:26.

You must be mopping job row in exasperation at what is happening!

:45:27.:45:34.

Did you think it would be a little bit quicker than it has been? We've

:45:35.:45:40.

been pursuing this agreement since 2009, diligently, and consulting

:45:41.:45:44.

along the way. We understood when Europe decided this would be viewed

:45:45.:45:48.

as a mixed agreement, there could be snags and it could require, because

:45:49.:45:52.

it would require approval at member state level as well. I think we've

:45:53.:45:59.

learned to be patient and I think it's bearing fruit. The final

:46:00.:46:03.

last-minute changes still need to be approved by all the member states.

:46:04.:46:07.

Do you share the Canadian Prime Minister's confidence that that will

:46:08.:46:11.

happen? Yes, in fact there aren't last-minute changes right now. There

:46:12.:46:15.

is an agreement between Belgium and the EU and the war you

:46:16.:46:21.

administration -- and will only about certain steps. Those steps

:46:22.:46:26.

were already understood. Things that were exclusively within the EU

:46:27.:46:28.

competency would be provisionally entered into force, but other

:46:29.:46:32.

elements would require further ratification. They've also requested

:46:33.:46:37.

reference to the European court with regard to one aspect of the

:46:38.:46:40.

agreement, the investment treaty dispute resolution system. But 90%

:46:41.:46:46.

of the agreement will be entering provisionally into force once this

:46:47.:46:49.

last approval goes through. Dragging it down to basics though, Wallonia

:46:50.:46:54.

wanted guarantees that this deal would lead to privatisation and job

:46:55.:47:01.

losses -- the deal would not. And it was almost derailed at the final

:47:02.:47:05.

hour by a group of farmers. Are you surprise that a deal of this mag

:47:06.:47:10.

dude could come down to such a tiny element potentially blocking get --

:47:11.:47:15.

this magnitude. In trade agreements, usually one goes from the broader,

:47:16.:47:20.

easier issues to the last knob issues, that happens in any

:47:21.:47:25.

negotiation, in a sense that was a microcosm. Because the European

:47:26.:47:30.

Union past summer, it gave member states the right to approve the

:47:31.:47:35.

agreement as opposed to being approved at European level, it gave

:47:36.:47:44.

power to the smaller sub regions to express concerns. Farming is very

:47:45.:47:49.

important in Wallonia. They gave them the power and they exercised

:47:50.:47:53.

it. Putting that point to you, Patrick O'Flynn, doesn't this add-in

:47:54.:47:57.

to those concerns that people have had about the difficulties of

:47:58.:48:00.

securing trade deals if you have to have widespread approval and one

:48:01.:48:06.

tiny group in one country can offset a trade deal. It's not going to be

:48:07.:48:11.

that easy, is it? I'd like to congratulate Christophe for

:48:12.:48:14.

concluding this deal with the EU that doesn't have a requirement of

:48:15.:48:17.

freedom of movement, which is the majority of such deals. But I think

:48:18.:48:21.

you're wrong to draw a parallel to the United Kingdom's position and

:48:22.:48:26.

Canada's. I think in round terms, Canada at the moment is

:48:27.:48:28.

approximately a ?35 billion per year and export market -- 30 5 million

:48:29.:48:35.

euros. The United Kingdom is a 350 million export market. My point is

:48:36.:48:41.

that a deal can be derailed by the tiniest element. We cannot just

:48:42.:48:45.

assume that these deals are going to be so easy to strike as we've been

:48:46.:48:50.

told. It is true that the article 50 process could get complicated and

:48:51.:48:53.

convoluted, which is why I would prefer something that I think John

:48:54.:48:57.

Redmond and Peter Lilley have alluded to, sort of looking in the

:48:58.:49:00.

eyeball and say, we are quite happy to carry on with free trade, or we

:49:01.:49:05.

will move to the WTO regime. There was a reporter at the beginning of

:49:06.:49:09.

the week that made clear that if we moved to the WTO regime or exporters

:49:10.:49:13.

would face ?5.2 billion worth of tariffs. But the United Kingdom

:49:14.:49:19.

would raise theirs. Or 10% tariffs on the car industry. Our car

:49:20.:49:24.

industry is the Nissan deal, we are very confident about the continued

:49:25.:49:29.

good place to be to produce motorcars in the United Kingdom. Is

:49:30.:49:33.

this a moment for the EU to think about streamlining its processors

:49:34.:49:36.

when it comes to striking trade deals? I think there will be a lot

:49:37.:49:40.

of questions raised about how we can make it more efficient and speed it

:49:41.:49:44.

up. But ultimately, a lot of the process so much criticism that has

:49:45.:49:48.

been levelled at the EU has been about the lack of democracy and

:49:49.:49:51.

ability for people to have a say about big issues like trade. And

:49:52.:49:56.

here we have, like Tuesday, a bunch of farmers, but ultimately be pulled

:49:57.:50:00.

a key stake on the the outcome of a deal. People who were worried about

:50:01.:50:04.

their livelihoods. Exactly, and the democratic structure has allowed at.

:50:05.:50:08.

Ultimately that is something that ought to be welcomed by those who

:50:09.:50:11.

are calling for increased parliamentary democracy within the

:50:12.:50:15.

EU structures. I mean, they exist and they are implemented. The

:50:16.:50:19.

International Trade Secretary here, Liam Fox, said that a trade deal

:50:20.:50:24.

during article 52 year negotiation process requires only a qualified

:50:25.:50:30.

majority -- the article 52 year negotiation process. But it could be

:50:31.:50:35.

subjected to the same problem? Would have to be approved by all the

:50:36.:50:39.

individual member states? The issue with modern trade agreements is

:50:40.:50:44.

that, unlike old school trade agreements that deal with tariffs

:50:45.:50:47.

and goods, these agreements are much more complex on the issue at

:50:48.:50:51.

European level is that they spill over from purely European to member

:50:52.:50:55.

state competency, which requires consultation and approval at times

:50:56.:51:00.

for those of aspect of the deal. So, you know, I don't want the deal to

:51:01.:51:03.

be struck between Britain and the EU, but in any kind of agreement

:51:04.:51:07.

that the EU is going to be pursuing, it is going to shut on more than

:51:08.:51:12.

just the core trade issues like tariffs. I think it's going to like

:51:13.:51:20.

we were acquired -- likely require certainly larger consultation, and

:51:21.:51:24.

broad approval processes. People might wonder if the EU card make a

:51:25.:51:27.

deal with Canada, who can it make a deal with? Trade deals right now,

:51:28.:51:34.

and this deal with Canada had it in mind, people have certainly become

:51:35.:51:37.

much more aware of, oh, the broad range of issues that are raised in

:51:38.:51:42.

these agreements. They deal not only with tariffs, but also trade in

:51:43.:51:47.

services, regulatory Corporation. They don't force any regulatory

:51:48.:51:53.

change. They just engage different economic spheres in conversation to

:51:54.:51:57.

see if those regulatory barriers can be smoothed over three neutral

:51:58.:52:03.

discussions. So go through mutual discussions. They don't force

:52:04.:52:07.

privatisation either. There are a lot of misconceptions. I think a lot

:52:08.:52:10.

of those discussions are taking place around Ceuta, and hopefully

:52:11.:52:13.

going forward the general public will have a better sense of what

:52:14.:52:17.

they actually entail and they will be more confident. Certainly in

:52:18.:52:20.

Canada right now, there is a broad debate about the link between trade

:52:21.:52:24.

and the social agenda, to help people understand and be confident

:52:25.:52:27.

about the future, because they know that that trade agenda is also

:52:28.:52:36.

linked to a broader system of support. So maybe make these trade

:52:37.:52:39.

deals, explain them a little bit more before they go through this

:52:40.:52:41.

process. Christophe Bondy, thank you.

:52:42.:52:42.

Now, this week MEPs demanded an increase to the EU's budget

:52:43.:52:45.

At more than 160 billion euros, it's an increase on last year.

:52:46.:52:49.

But concern is also growing about a possible shortfall this

:52:50.:52:51.

year, with the slump in sterling's exchange rate meaning the UK's

:52:52.:52:54.

contribution is worth almost 2 billion euros less than forecast.

:52:55.:52:56.

Ellie Price has been talking to German MEP Jens Geier,

:52:57.:52:59.

who is leading the budget negotiations on behalf

:53:00.:53:01.

She began by asking him why MEPs are asking

:53:02.:53:04.

We are not asking for more money, we are asking for sufficient money

:53:05.:53:11.

in order to fulfil what member states demand from

:53:12.:53:14.

You cannot really make working for jobs and growth and trying

:53:15.:53:22.

to cope with the migration crisis a priority and then do not handle it

:53:23.:53:27.

like a priority in terms of giving sufficient means.

:53:28.:53:34.

One of the problems you face is the weaker pound.

:53:35.:53:38.

Obviously that is lowering the contributions that

:53:39.:53:40.

How much of a problem is that for you, and what are

:53:41.:53:44.

So the exchange rate on which the contributions

:53:45.:53:51.

from Great Britain are measured is set on the 31st of December 2015.

:53:52.:53:58.

And after the Brexit, as you perfectly know,

:53:59.:54:01.

So now it costs return 10% more in pound sterling

:54:02.:54:09.

to fulfil its obligations in euros, and that creates a deficit.

:54:10.:54:18.

So we cannot close the budget here with red figures.

:54:19.:54:25.

The Commission now calculates the deficit as 1.8 billion euros.

:54:26.:54:32.

And there are three possibilities to cover that, and none of them

:54:33.:54:36.

First, ask the British for more money.

:54:37.:54:41.

Second, ask the other member states to cover

:54:42.:54:43.

And third, let's find money in the European budget.

:54:44.:54:54.

We have some time to go until the end of the year,

:54:55.:54:58.

so maybe the British, the pound sterling recovers

:54:59.:55:01.

a little bit, maybe there is more finance coming in.

:55:02.:55:04.

But it would cover today about two thirds of it.

:55:05.:55:09.

I could imagine some sort of burden sharing between the UK

:55:10.:55:11.

Britain will leave the EU in just over two years' time, and take

:55:12.:55:22.

Well, it will go along with the renegotiation

:55:23.:55:31.

And that will mean that all what the EU is giving money

:55:32.:55:37.

for is renegotiated, every contribution is renegotiated,

:55:38.:55:44.

in terms of paying and in terms of getting the money.

:55:45.:55:47.

So it would be a perfect possibility to just recalculate what does

:55:48.:55:53.

the European member states want from the EU, how much money

:55:54.:55:58.

they are ready to give, and how would be the burden sharing

:55:59.:56:01.

So my feeling is it might be a little bit more for some,

:56:02.:56:10.

So it could mean a major overhaul, essentially?

:56:11.:56:20.

So Britain's leaving the EU will have a major impact

:56:21.:56:24.

No, not so much, don't take it so serious!

:56:25.:56:41.

Seb Dance laid out some possible scenarios. Ask Britain for more

:56:42.:56:50.

money, get the EU nations to cover, or take money out of the EU budget.

:56:51.:56:54.

What do you think it should be? It remains to be seen what collectively

:56:55.:56:57.

will be seen as the best of those three options. What do you think?

:56:58.:57:03.

Nobody wants to pay in more money. In the European Parliament, we voted

:57:04.:57:06.

not to increase the budget because we don't believe that we should be

:57:07.:57:10.

paying more money in real terms into the budget at this point. But I mean

:57:11.:57:14.

obviously when we have a situation when the pound has lost so much in

:57:15.:57:18.

its value internationally, you know, there is a lot of currency

:57:19.:57:23.

volatility around. When that exchange rate is set, it inevitably

:57:24.:57:28.

means that our contributions will go up if we just stick with the current

:57:29.:57:33.

contributions. And that obviously is a problem that Brexit has posed, the

:57:34.:57:37.

level of volatility is such that we can't be sure about what our

:57:38.:57:42.

contributions will be. Patrick, on a point of principle, should the UK

:57:43.:57:45.

rather than EU member states make up the rest was brought no, of course

:57:46.:57:49.

it, some of this budget should be brought back. SAP says his -- Seb

:57:50.:58:00.

Dance says his group voted not the increases, we voted for cuts,

:58:01.:58:04.

cutting the salaries, allowances and travel expenses of MEPs which Mr

:58:05.:58:07.

Schultz ruled out of order. There are so many useless things. Youth

:58:08.:58:14.

clubs in Azerbaijan, combating hate speech in the Middle East. This is a

:58:15.:58:18.

bloated organisation that cannot pay its bills. If you blame others for

:58:19.:58:24.

their spending priorities, Howard and earth do you shift the focus on

:58:25.:58:28.

them to choose one of those options which is to get us to pay more?

:58:29.:58:32.

Ultimately they are not going to share the burden if we treat the

:58:33.:58:35.

European Union in the way that you are suggesting. I mean, you have to

:58:36.:58:39.

work constructively with partners, you have to work as an engaged

:58:40.:58:43.

partner in a Single Market, as you will remember, as we still are, of

:58:44.:58:49.

course. It would seem as an obvious point that if we want their goodwill

:58:50.:58:56.

in the forthcoming negotiations, simply criticising them for their

:58:57.:58:58.

current spending allocations is not going to... We pay more at every

:58:59.:59:03.

turn. We pay 1.8 million bought just because of our economy. Thank

:59:04.:59:07.

goodness we're leaving stop my final word from Patrick O'Flynn. Thank you

:59:08.:59:08.

very much indeed.

:59:09.:59:14.

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