07/12/2016 Daily Politics


07/12/2016

Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil introduce live coverage of PMQs. And they are joined by Brandon Lewis and Jenny Chapman as MPs vote for the first time on a timetable for Brexit.


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MPs vote on a Brexit timetable for the first time as Theresa May

:00:38.:00:44.

But with a small majority, how hard will it be for her

:00:45.:00:49.

Nicola Sturgeon has said a second referendum on Scottish Independence

:00:50.:00:55.

Will the Government do a deal with the SNP

:00:56.:00:59.

The Liberal Democrats have been handed down the maximum fine

:01:00.:01:09.

for failing to report election spending totalling almost

:01:10.:01:13.

?200,000 during the 2015 General Election campaign.

:01:14.:01:17.

Are greater powers needed to enforce electoral law?

:01:18.:01:21.

And what pleasure can be derived from the spelling

:01:22.:01:23.

How do you spell howler? Don't ask me tricky questions.

:01:24.:01:43.

All that in the next 90 minutes and with with us for the duration,

:01:44.:01:47.

we've played safe with two MPs whose names are easy to spell.

:01:48.:01:50.

Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis and Shadow Brexit Minister,

:01:51.:01:52.

Jenny Chapman - that's Jenny with a "Y".

:01:53.:01:54.

Now the Government appear to have seen off a rebellion by its own MPs,

:01:55.:02:02.

who had threatened to vote with Labour on a motion calling

:02:03.:02:07.

for the Government to publish an outline of the plan for Brexit

:02:08.:02:09.

before negotiations with the EU begin.

:02:10.:02:15.

Number 10 now accept the motion, having amended it

:02:16.:02:17.

to call for Article 50 - which begins those negotiations -

:02:18.:02:20.

to be triggered by the end of March next year.

:02:21.:02:22.

So, Theresa May hasn't fallen at the first fence

:02:23.:02:28.

but there will be more parliamentary tests ahead and the parliamentary

:02:29.:02:31.

has a majority of just nine and a working majority

:02:32.:02:39.

of 13 once Sinn Fein MPs, who don't vote, are

:02:40.:02:41.

The next hurdle is the Supreme Court where the Government's appealing

:02:42.:02:45.

against a ruling that Parliament should be consulted before

:02:46.:02:49.

If this is defeated there will be a vote in Parliament,

:02:50.:02:56.

possibly a tightly worded bill that's difficult to amend.

:02:57.:02:59.

Labour say they will vote in favour - so it should pass -

:03:00.:03:02.

but it's likely they and others will attempt to amend it.

:03:03.:03:06.

And then of course the bill will have to go through the Lords,

:03:07.:03:09.

where there is a big Remain majority.

:03:10.:03:12.

Once these hurdles have been jumped it's the Great Repeal Bill,

:03:13.:03:15.

The idea is it will incorporate all existing EU regulations

:03:16.:03:23.

into British law and the eventual repeal on the 1972

:03:24.:03:28.

However, there's plenty for mischief making MPs to get their teeth

:03:29.:03:37.

into with endless amendments that could slow the Bill's

:03:38.:03:39.

Then once on the final straight, Mrs May could fall at the final

:03:40.:03:52.

furlong right at the end of the negotiation process,

:03:53.:03:54.

where there could be pressure for yet another vote on the final

:03:55.:03:57.

Brexit deal, and if the Liberal Democrats get their way,

:03:58.:03:59.

maybe even another referendum on the deal.

:04:00.:04:01.

Thank you. Brandon Lewis. Can you give us any idea what it is you are

:04:02.:04:08.

going to publish? Well, the Prime Minister's been very clear and the

:04:09.:04:13.

motion is clear. We are outline... I don't want to interrupt you right

:04:14.:04:16.

away. Any time people sit on these chairs and say the Prime Minister or

:04:17.:04:20.

the Leader of the Opposition has been very clear, it means we are

:04:21.:04:23.

about to be splattered with mud that we can't see through. No mud just

:04:24.:04:27.

very simple in that first part next year, when we trigger article #50,

:04:28.:04:32.

as the motion says today -- Article 50. Will there be a white paper? We

:04:33.:04:37.

will look at that and the Government will outline that in due course. A

:04:38.:04:41.

green paper? As I say we'll work through what will be published. I

:04:42.:04:44.

thought you told me it was very clear. As the motion that Labour put

:04:45.:04:48.

down today says, we will outline that plan before we trigger Article

:04:49.:04:52.

50. I'm trying to work out what the format, the vehicle for the plan,

:04:53.:04:55.

because that will give us an idea of how much substance there will be in

:04:56.:05:00.

it. So it is very clear but not clear enough that it is a white

:05:01.:05:05.

paper or a Greene paper or a leaflet or maybe back of a fag packet.

:05:06.:05:10.

Obviously there is a plan put forward Parliament. But what will be

:05:11.:05:16.

the formula? What will be put before Parliament? Well we have not

:05:17.:05:19.

outlined that. We will do that in due course. We are not ready to do

:05:20.:05:23.

that. We will do that when we get into next year. Clear as mud. It is

:05:24.:05:29.

what the motion has said. The Government will outline its plans.

:05:30.:05:38.

We have down in broad terms, the principles for exiting the European

:05:39.:05:42.

Union. So will you not publish anything that we don't know already?

:05:43.:05:48.

We have been clear, about our laws, free trade negotiation, and

:05:49.:05:52.

immigration in place. And we will publish that plan, as we publish...

:05:53.:05:58.

You will publish what we already know? The Prime Minister has said

:05:59.:06:02.

and outlined at the party conference speech the broad principles. One of

:06:03.:06:05.

the key tests will be for Labour and the Liberal Democrats to stand up

:06:06.:06:08.

and vote for what British people voted for and be clear about that.

:06:09.:06:11.

We have outlined what the principles are. Today's vote will be a good

:06:12.:06:16.

chance for Labour to be clear about whether they are for exiting the

:06:17.:06:21.

European Union or whether they want a second referendum. We had a front

:06:22.:06:32.

bench person asking that. Jo asked if you will expand on what we know

:06:33.:06:35.

already. For example, free trade. If you want to be able to do free trade

:06:36.:06:39.

deals, it requires you to be outside the customs union, but the

:06:40.:06:42.

Government has not yet told us whether we will or not be outside

:06:43.:06:48.

the customs union. I'm not asking you to answer that but will whatever

:06:49.:06:51.

is published clarify matters? Well you are right. Part is we are at the

:06:52.:06:55.

start of the negotiations, that will come through the negotiations. Not

:06:56.:07:00.

what we want, we have to get agreement with the 27 countries. But

:07:01.:07:08.

I ask, will the green, white paper, back of a fag packet paper, clarify

:07:09.:07:12.

issues like that? We'll outline what we will publish when we publish it

:07:13.:07:17.

to trigger Article 50. The broad principles we want to go for have

:07:18.:07:21.

been outlined by the Prime Minister and discussed in Parliament. You

:07:22.:07:23.

have listened to the minister. He hasn't told us anything we didn't

:07:24.:07:29.

know already. I'm in the quite sure, what has Labour achieved with this

:07:30.:07:32.

motion? We have a victory, we are pleased about that. What is the

:07:33.:07:36.

victory? What we have now is a commitment to publishing a plan and

:07:37.:07:39.

we would like to see this in good time, to the end of March, so we

:07:40.:07:44.

want it in January. We would like a white paper. But you haven't got

:07:45.:07:48.

that commitment. We haven't got a commitment to a white paper.

:07:49.:07:52.

Honestly we are not hung up on what format it takes. You want some

:07:53.:07:56.

details. We need more than we have, that's clear. The trouble with the

:07:57.:08:02.

principles that have been outlined so far, is that ministers have

:08:03.:08:07.

contradicted one another on them. So, last Thursday, you had David

:08:08.:08:13.

Davis de-Despatch Box saying - we could be could be contributing to

:08:14.:08:17.

the EU budget even after we left and Boris at the weekend or Mr Johnson

:08:18.:08:21.

as we are now supposed to call him, saying that is hae just speculation

:08:22.:08:25.

and we don't think that's glpg He said they may make contributions but

:08:26.:08:29.

they would be small. I'm trying to work out what is it... There is no

:08:30.:08:34.

clarity. Exactly. So what is it you have got the Government to concede

:08:35.:08:38.

Well, we want a plan. Well, are you happy with what the minister said

:08:39.:08:43.

there? No, I was not happy. So what have you achieved? If when they

:08:44.:08:46.

publish something that they call a plan, it is insufficient, then we

:08:47.:08:49.

are going to have to go through this all again, aren't we? We had to

:08:50.:08:53.

force the Government to agree what we asked it to do today. They have

:08:54.:08:58.

had to back down to do this and we will come back and do this again,

:08:59.:09:01.

should we need to, should they publish something. So were you

:09:02.:09:06.

trying tie mend a plan? Were you trying to amend the plan We may need

:09:07.:09:11.

to. We may need to see it first. All right. How do you think the Labour

:09:12.:09:17.

Lords are going to react to this? We know, by in large, the Labour MPs

:09:18.:09:22.

are going to trigger Article 50. There will be caveats, complaints

:09:23.:09:25.

and so on, but in the end they are going to vote for it. What about the

:09:26.:09:31.

Labour Lords? I think the Labour Lords are quite respectful of the

:09:32.:09:34.

fact that there has been a referendum. I think they have

:09:35.:09:38.

concerns, as do many people, about the form of Brexit and Labour

:09:39.:09:43.

doesn't want to see a hard Brexit. But I think ultimately, the Lords

:09:44.:09:47.

may use the opportunities to challenge, to amend, to probe, but I

:09:48.:09:51.

don't see the Lords blocking Article 50. But in the end, just to clarify

:09:52.:09:57.

this, the Government puts something to Parliament - as yet unspecified -

:09:58.:10:03.

but it puts something to Parliament about its negotiating strategy, if I

:10:04.:10:07.

can put it no higher than that. And you may try to amend it or you may

:10:08.:10:12.

not like t but in the end, even if you fail to amend it, you still vote

:10:13.:10:17.

for Article 50? We have two opportunities - we will vote for

:10:18.:10:20.

Article 50. We have been saying that for months, which is why the

:10:21.:10:22.

Government's amendment today, you know really, we are quite relaxed

:10:23.:10:27.

about agreeing to that. Not all members are. Well not all of your

:10:28.:10:31.

members. What is the answer to my question. This is the usual politics

:10:32.:10:36.

in this. You know, it is a different kind of debate. Because we have got

:10:37.:10:39.

here by a referendum, it is different. And I accept that. But we

:10:40.:10:45.

will have to two opportunities. We will have the opportunity once we

:10:46.:10:48.

see the outline of the strategy to talk more widely across the country

:10:49.:10:52.

about it, to challenge the Government on it and to illicit

:10:53.:10:56.

change through that. There's also the Article 50 legislation. Now, I

:10:57.:11:00.

don't think there is such a thing as a bill which can be put forward

:11:01.:11:05.

which is unamendable. So, when we see that, bearing in mind what we

:11:06.:11:09.

have seen in the plan, there is an opportunity to then have further

:11:10.:11:14.

votes on what form of Brexit... But if there is legislation and you do

:11:15.:11:18.

fail to amend that, you will still, in the end, go with Article 50? That

:11:19.:11:22.

has been our commitment. I understand that. Will the Government

:11:23.:11:29.

- when it is all done and dusted, and we have a deal on the terms on

:11:30.:11:35.

which we are leaving the European Union. It may even be interim, it

:11:36.:11:40.

may not cover everything, but it is a clear - this is what we have

:11:41.:11:44.

agreed with the other 27 members. Will that go before Parliament?

:11:45.:11:48.

Well, it depends on the format that takes. That is a long way off yet.

:11:49.:11:54.

That could be a year, as we saw yesterday potentially later than,

:11:55.:11:57.

two 18. Until we know what the format is, it is too early to answer

:11:58.:12:02.

the question. Hold on. What would be the case for not putting that to

:12:03.:12:06.

Parliament? It depends on what goes through Parliament with the great

:12:07.:12:10.

repeal bill and everything over the next year or so. It is too early to

:12:11.:12:13.

say. The great repeal bill has nothing to do with our terms of

:12:14.:12:16.

leaving. That's a mechanism by which you don't have to repeal every piece

:12:17.:12:22.

of European legislation on day 1. That's a process business there

:12:23.:12:26.

which gives you more time. What I'm asking is, when we come to the deal

:12:27.:12:30.

to be done, and the British people look at t the Lib Dems want another

:12:31.:12:35.

referendum. -- look at it. I take it you don't and Labour don't want

:12:36.:12:40.

another referendum. I don't see how you can have another referendum, at

:12:41.:12:43.

what point you can have it and what question you can put, before we have

:12:44.:12:50.

left But Labour front bedges in the last two weeks have been inferring

:12:51.:12:55.

to a second referendum. That may be the problems but the problem I'm

:12:56.:12:59.

grappling with, is what would be the case against Parliament. In essence

:13:00.:13:04.

this would be a treaty. Leaving the European Union would be an

:13:05.:13:07.

international treaty with 27 other countries, with the EU as an

:13:08.:13:11.

institution, to leave and my understanding is that treaties now

:13:12.:13:17.

have to go through Parliament? Well, this comes to, actually partially

:13:18.:13:22.

expects the report that Jenny was making around Boris Johnson and

:13:23.:13:26.

David Davis' comments, they were outlining what happens. This has

:13:27.:13:30.

never been done, nobody has left the European Union. So to outline what

:13:31.:13:34.

the process will be at the end of this in a year or two years' time

:13:35.:13:37.

whenever it comes, so too early to say. I'm not saying it wouldn't be

:13:38.:13:41.

but it is too early to outline that now, tie the Government to something

:13:42.:13:45.

now, when it is two years' ago. Surely it has to be approved by

:13:46.:13:50.

Parliament? If it is a treaty that requires parliamentary approval for

:13:51.:13:53.

that process that would be the case, we are not at that pointed, we are

:13:54.:13:56.

still some way away from that. All right. Are you clear about the plan?

:13:57.:13:58.

No. Now, with the House of Commons

:13:59.:14:01.

so finely balanced, key players in any potential Brexit votes

:14:02.:14:04.

will be the 54 MPs from Nicola Sturgeon's party

:14:05.:14:07.

campaigned strongly to Remain, so what could Theresa May possibly

:14:08.:14:10.

offer to help get the SNP on side? Might the promise of

:14:11.:14:13.

a second vote on Scottish That's what The Times

:14:14.:14:15.

suggests today. They report that ministers

:14:16.:14:20.

are considering allowing the Scottish Government to hold

:14:21.:14:22.

a second independence referendum after the UK has

:14:23.:14:25.

left the European Union. Let's ask the SNP's Europe

:14:26.:14:29.

spokesman, Stephen Gethins. Before we move on to that, Stephen,

:14:30.:14:43.

are you happy with the plan the government is now going to publish

:14:44.:14:49.

and linking it to the triggering of Article 50? We haven't seen any

:14:50.:14:55.

details yet, we are 167 days from the referendum, another 113 days

:14:56.:14:59.

until the end of March and we are no closer so I'm not happy because we

:15:00.:15:03.

haven't seen any more details yet again. What are you going to do in

:15:04.:15:06.

the debate then? We're not going to accept the government's

:15:07.:15:27.

Amendment. Frankly I think we are letting them off the hook. This has

:15:28.:15:30.

a huge impact on jobs, the economy and our livelihoods and we need much

:15:31.:15:32.

more detail... What will you do? Vote against. What do you think of

:15:33.:15:35.

Labour's position on this? I'm disappointed, we need to join

:15:36.:15:37.

together and hold the government's feature the fire on this. We are not

:15:38.:15:39.

getting the details. We will work with Labour when we can but if we

:15:40.:15:42.

are in different voting comes today that is just where we have to end

:15:43.:15:47.

up. Jenny? We have to think about why the government has chosen to

:15:48.:15:51.

amend the motion in the way it has. For months we have said we will not

:15:52.:15:57.

accept Article 50 and the government says, yes you will so they have done

:15:58.:16:04.

this to call our bluff. We will not fall for that, we'll be consistent

:16:05.:16:07.

and clear and say that we will not block Article 50 and we will vote

:16:08.:16:11.

accordingly -- we have said that we will not block Article 50. Stephen,

:16:12.:16:17.

had they been discussions between Westminster and the Scottish

:16:18.:16:21.

Government on a possible second referendum? I'm not sure if the

:16:22.:16:25.

Times has been hanging around outside No 10 looking for more

:16:26.:16:31.

scribbled notes! Maybe they found some? It seems extraordinary when

:16:32.:16:48.

we have no details of the government 's plans for leaving the EU they

:16:49.:16:52.

suddenly want to blog about independence. It is deflection from

:16:53.:16:54.

the problems they are having now. Is that a No, no discussions between

:16:55.:16:56.

Westminster and the Scottish Government on a second referendum?

:16:57.:16:59.

Nothing I'm aware of, it sounds like more scribbled notes, more

:17:00.:17:00.

deflection, we need plans, what their plans are on the single

:17:01.:17:03.

market, the freedom of movement, the customs union, guys you had six

:17:04.:17:06.

months, let's not deflect any more, give us something. Let's talk about

:17:07.:17:11.

something you want to talk about, a second referendum on independence,

:17:12.:17:15.

where do you want it? We're looking at a range of options. It depends on

:17:16.:17:17.

what the government comes up with. I think it's sensible to look at a

:17:18.:17:32.

range of options with the UK Government has to be open to taking

:17:33.:17:35.

the concerns of all the devolved administrations seriously, something

:17:36.:17:37.

else not covered today. The SNP and Plaid Cymru have put down an

:17:38.:17:39.

amendment stating that they must have a say on a final deal. Don't

:17:40.:17:42.

forget this has a huge impact on the responsibilities... It could be that

:17:43.:17:47.

all MPs have the final say on the final deal, Brandon says, we don't

:17:48.:17:51.

know quite what it will be at the end, whether it is a treaty that

:17:52.:17:55.

parliament votes on. On the issue of timing would you only want a second

:17:56.:18:00.

independence referendum before Brexit happens? What we want is to

:18:01.:18:05.

see some more detail. I think it is fair that we see more detail. For

:18:06.:18:10.

the UK Government to go off, they want to talk about independence

:18:11.:18:12.

suddenly when they still haven't dealt with the problems... I haven't

:18:13.:18:18.

had the government myself talking about a referendum. Let me put it

:18:19.:18:21.

another way. Let me give you one scenario. Let's say the government

:18:22.:18:26.

confirms leaving the supermarket and customs union. Would you want in

:18:27.:18:33.

that case a second independence referendum before Brexit happens? It

:18:34.:18:38.

would be highly likely of the deal was not in the interests of Scotland

:18:39.:18:42.

and did not respect the will of the Scottish people, that must be

:18:43.:18:47.

foremost in our minds. Would it be harder for you to win? We are not

:18:48.:18:54.

there yet. Remember we overturned a 30 point deficit last time. We are

:18:55.:18:59.

trying to get answers from the government over its Europe strategy.

:19:00.:19:02.

They are still in a mess and it is having an impact on jobs and

:19:03.:19:06.

everyone in the UK. This is why we are trying to hold them to account

:19:07.:19:09.

adequately and that is what I will be doing this afternoon. You say you

:19:10.:19:14.

are not they get. Is it diversionary tactics by the SNP -- you say you

:19:15.:19:22.

are not there yet. I cannot pin you down on when you want a second

:19:23.:19:25.

independence referendum. You certainly want one. Hold on. At a

:19:26.:19:33.

time when the UK Government is telling us nothing the First

:19:34.:19:38.

Minister was telling us about the rights of UK national silk or

:19:39.:19:41.

Scotland home that should be allowed to say, about freedom of movement

:19:42.:19:46.

and the single market. So we've set out areas that are a priority for us

:19:47.:19:50.

and time in the UK Government has set up nothing. Is it a red line?

:19:51.:19:55.

Single market membership is incredibly important especially

:19:56.:19:59.

given the impact on the food and drink university and don't forget

:20:00.:20:04.

the university sector, so important... The SNP has national

:20:05.:20:07.

referendum on Scottish independence which closed last week after

:20:08.:20:18.

receiving 2 million responses, when will you publish the results? It's a

:20:19.:20:21.

lot of responses so I'm pleased... When can be see the responses? It

:20:22.:20:23.

will take time to go through 2 million responses. It's a pretty

:20:24.:20:27.

good response rate. When will it be? It only takes weeks. Will we have it

:20:28.:20:33.

before Christmas? Let's get a bit of time, let's try and assess those

:20:34.:20:38.

responses. 2 million is a lot, Jo, it is good going. It is, thank you

:20:39.:20:44.

very much, Stephen. Anything in this report about a possible deal? If I

:20:45.:20:49.

remember correctly the source of that story was a source in the

:20:50.:20:53.

Scottish Government! We are very clear. We think the SNP should

:20:54.:20:58.

respect the referendum, not just of this year but also the independence

:20:59.:21:01.

referendum. We have had one, they should respect that and get on with

:21:02.:21:06.

governing... Why should they not have one, they will be a change in

:21:07.:21:10.

circumstances when the UK leaves the EU. A big enough material change, I

:21:11.:21:15.

suggest, to have a second referendum. The first referendum

:21:16.:21:21.

should Scotland wanted to stay part of the UK. And Great Britain voted

:21:22.:21:25.

this year to leave the EU. Our job is to focus on what the British

:21:26.:21:30.

people want. What they ask for and negotiate in years to come is out of

:21:31.:21:34.

the SNP. I would suggest they focus on getting things right in Scotland,

:21:35.:21:38.

education and other matters that are devolved and they are not even using

:21:39.:21:42.

the powers they have properly. What is the position of Labour because

:21:43.:21:46.

the deputy leader of Scottish Labour has said that Labour is neither

:21:47.:21:50.

Unionist non-Russian list and says, I have never considered myself a

:21:51.:21:55.

unionist. That sounds a big departure. What Kezia Dugdale has

:21:56.:22:00.

done is interesting in that she says that we need to rethink the way we

:22:01.:22:07.

organise our country. Let's take one constitutional crisis at a time!

:22:08.:22:11.

She's putting down markers, things she is important that we need to

:22:12.:22:15.

think about in the years to come. A perfectly good thing for her to

:22:16.:22:20.

do... Scottish Labour is moving away from this unionist position? It is

:22:21.:22:26.

developing its own identity and the leadership of Kezia, after what

:22:27.:22:30.

happened in the general election last year... Are you in favour of

:22:31.:22:40.

the union or not? I am. Is Scottish Labour still in favour? It is but

:22:41.:22:46.

you can't say that we will be the same way we were before June 20 15.

:22:47.:22:51.

She is asking questions, raising a debate and I think that is the right

:22:52.:22:55.

approach. An interesting move. It is not like we've never had this debate

:22:56.:23:03.

before! Goodbye to all my old notes. The good ones are worth keeping.

:23:04.:23:11.

How would you like your cuppa of English Brexit blend

:23:12.:23:13.

White, black or perhaps a shade of Earl Grey instead?

:23:14.:23:16.

Does it matter if Brexit tea is made with water that is soft or hard?

:23:17.:23:20.

Will a hard Brexit tea leave a bitter aftertaste?

:23:21.:23:22.

Perhaps it will taste better if you serve it up

:23:23.:23:25.

in some patriotic china - stamped with Lizzie's mug and draped

:23:26.:23:27.

Or perhaps you'd prefer your builders' in a crisp white,

:23:28.:23:32.

politically neutral and altogther more classy Daily Politics' mug.

:23:33.:23:45.

But Mrs May - if you're watching and you probably are -

:23:46.:23:48.

there's only one way to have

:23:49.:23:49.

one of these waiting for you when you get

:23:50.:23:51.

We've been on the brink of it, I think, once or twice,

:23:52.:24:16.

during the last week, but we've stepped back from it.

:24:17.:24:19.

Few boats expected such a ferocious storm and the fleet of over 300 that

:24:20.:24:28.

set out from Cowes in calm weather took the full force.

:24:29.:24:32.

The verdict of the jury, after a prolonged and careful

:24:33.:24:52.

investigation by them, I regard as totally fair,

:24:53.:24:54.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,

:24:55.:25:11.

send your answer to our special quiz e-mail address - that's

:25:12.:25:14.

Entries must arrive by 12.30 today, and you can see the full terms

:25:15.:25:20.

and conditions for Guess The Year on our website - that's

:25:21.:25:25.

It's coming up to midday here - just take a look at Big Ben -

:25:26.:25:37.

It has gone very dark and there! And somebody put a shilling in the

:25:38.:25:44.

meter? That's what we used to do as students although that was a long

:25:45.:25:45.

while ago! And fresh from yet more success -

:25:46.:25:47.

this time the Press Gazette awards, Journalist of the Year no less,

:25:48.:25:50.

Laura Kuenssberg is here. Congratulations again! Under

:25:51.:26:00.

pressure now, every week. When you don't get one we will point it out

:26:01.:26:02.

every week. But with Theresa May

:26:03.:26:03.

in the Gulf, David Lidington, who's Leader of the House,

:26:04.:26:06.

will be deputising for the PM. Facing him will be Shadow Foreign

:26:07.:26:08.

Secretary, Emily Thornberry. What, I hear you say,

:26:09.:26:11.

you've never heard of them? Fear not, here's Adam

:26:12.:26:14.

with the Daily Politics guide. As the longest-serving

:26:15.:26:27.

Europe Minister ever, David Lidington chomped croissants

:26:28.:26:32.

with David Cameron as they renegotiated our

:26:33.:26:34.

membership of the EU. Now, as Leader of the House,

:26:35.:26:36.

he shepherds government THE SPEAKER: Order,

:26:37.:26:39.

the Leader of the House is a renowned intellectual,

:26:40.:26:44.

noted not merely for carrying books around the place, but even

:26:45.:26:50.

for being seen reading them. "Lidders" has been the MP

:26:51.:26:53.

for Aylesbury since 1992 and he won Don't mention quizzes

:26:54.:26:56.

to Shadow Foreign Secretary He is the French Foreign Minister,

:26:57.:27:02.

do you know his name? For more than a decade she's

:27:03.:27:09.

represented Islington South, She's been loyal to him, but quit

:27:10.:27:13.

the Shadow Cabinet under Ed Miliband after tweeting this picture

:27:14.:27:20.

from a by-election, which was Talking of judges,

:27:21.:27:22.

she's married to one. So actually it's Lady Emily,

:27:23.:27:26.

thank you very much. We got there in the end! The editor

:27:27.:27:43.

kicked the projector! 16 millimetre film, it's very high-tech, you know!

:27:44.:27:48.

She normally just takes a sledgehammer to it. If it works! Not

:27:49.:27:57.

exactly the A team, not even the brother Mac team. Some people

:27:58.:28:04.

suggested they were more the C team. David Lidington is very well

:28:05.:28:08.

respected in the House of Commons or the little-known outside it, Emily

:28:09.:28:11.

Thornberry is known for sometimes saying controversial things that

:28:12.:28:14.

have landed her in trouble so it will be interesting. There's not now

:28:15.:28:21.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister. And that is why there isn't an

:28:22.:28:26.

automatic, I understand that if the Prime Minister is there, by

:28:27.:28:29.

convention, the Leader of the Opposition does not do it. It used

:28:30.:28:33.

to be like the number two on both sides. Or who ever was in the role

:28:34.:28:40.

of first secretary of State. David Cameron and latterly gave that

:28:41.:28:43.

position to George Osborne so he did it and did it well, and plainly

:28:44.:28:47.

loved every minute of it. Who knows, he might have been imagining he was

:28:48.:28:52.

practising! At that point! How the world turns. But Theresa May has

:28:53.:29:00.

taken a decision not to have a Deputy Prime Minister officially

:29:01.:29:03.

entitled and not to have anyone in the first Secretary of State role

:29:04.:29:06.

although we understand that Emily Thornberry was given a shadow first

:29:07.:29:09.

Secretary of State role just yesterday. Shadowing a position that

:29:10.:29:16.

is not there! The choices is under way in which Jeremy Corbyn has come

:29:17.:29:20.

up with titles and managed his top team in the last 18 months have not

:29:21.:29:24.

always be conventional, shall I put it like that. Am I right in thinking

:29:25.:29:29.

that what is said by either of them today will not matter at all? I

:29:30.:29:34.

think most people will focus on what happens afterwards when David Davis

:29:35.:29:38.

is responding in the debate that I know you have already discussed

:29:39.:29:42.

about the government's plan or lack of a planned on Brexit. What happens

:29:43.:29:56.

after PMQs? The debate on the Labour motion... Begins. So Labour has put

:29:57.:29:58.

a motion, the government is putting this amendment which Labour accepts,

:29:59.:30:03.

so when, the House will then vote on the amended Labour motion. Indeed.

:30:04.:30:11.

With the two biggest parties lining up overwhelmingly, maybe not 100%.

:30:12.:30:16.

Some Labour MPs like David Lambie have said they will not approve this

:30:17.:30:20.

amendment because they don't think it's worth the paper is to his

:30:21.:30:23.

written on but it will get through and there may not even be division.

:30:24.:30:28.

It may go to on the nod because it will be the assembly - SNP and the

:30:29.:30:36.

Lib Dems combined... Whether the Speaker of the House of Commons

:30:37.:30:40.

calls the division on this is not clear. Whether this may be

:30:41.:30:43.

insubstantial part thanks to the Labour position on this, some people

:30:44.:30:48.

not wondering why we bothering with this rigmarole of the Supreme Court?

:30:49.:30:53.

Why doesn't the government just put Article 50 before the House? Some

:30:54.:30:58.

senior Conservatives think that the government should have got on with

:30:59.:31:02.

it some time ago, put something before the House and a lot of people

:31:03.:31:06.

I've spoken to in the last couple of weeks think the smart politics would

:31:07.:31:10.

be on the day of the High Court division, just a short ill with the

:31:11.:31:15.

phrases that Theresa May has used repeatedly, operate with and trade

:31:16.:31:21.

within this single market, take back control of our borders, that is just

:31:22.:31:25.

four lines. It would have been backed overwhelmingly. She's chosen

:31:26.:31:29.

to dig their heels in and they are pursuing this Supreme Court case.

:31:30.:31:34.

What is vital, and some Tory rebels believe is implicit in the

:31:35.:31:38.

government amendment yesterday, the government doesn't agree, is whether

:31:39.:31:42.

or not there will be a vote. So the government is committed to putting

:31:43.:31:46.

something in front of the House but absolutely has not committed to

:31:47.:31:51.

giving MPs vote before Article 50. That is why the Supreme Court still

:31:52.:31:55.

matters because if it says yes there must be legislation, then there

:31:56.:31:58.

would have to be a vote and Dem MPs would have the chance to amend...

:31:59.:32:02.

And I think the important thing about yesterday was that the fight

:32:03.:32:06.

was deferred but it absolutely has not gone away. There is a sense

:32:07.:32:10.

around the place. People know this is a huge bust up looming over all

:32:11.:32:14.

of this. Today will probably not be the day. Lord Pannick, the QC for

:32:15.:32:21.

the plaintiff, said today that a motion is not an act of Parliament,

:32:22.:32:25.

it requires an act of Parliament, in his view to trigger that. That is

:32:26.:32:30.

his view. That is what they are arguing and the vital thing will be

:32:31.:32:34.

in January. Let's go over to the House and see what happens.

:32:35.:32:42.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister is in Bahrain. Mr Speaker,

:32:43.:32:49.

this morning I had meeting with ministerial colleagues and others

:32:50.:32:51.

and in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such

:32:52.:32:56.

meetings in this House later today. Yesterday's signing of a memorandum

:32:57.:33:03.

of understanding with Houston Space Court and the Rise Space Ince staut

:33:04.:33:07.

brings the reality of a Prestwick Space Court closer. With the huge

:33:08.:33:13.

boost that could give to the airspace injury, will the UK

:33:14.:33:16.

Government support the Scottish Government to get this off the

:33:17.:33:20.

ground? I can certainly assure the honourable lady that the Government

:33:21.:33:28.

is looking very keenly at the opportunities to Scotland, indeed

:33:29.:33:32.

the whole of the UK, arising from the future development of commercial

:33:33.:33:36.

space operations. The Ayrshire operation that she has described I'm

:33:37.:33:40.

sure will be examined by closely by most both my ministerial colleagues

:33:41.:33:42.

who are particularly concerned with this area of policy but we want to

:33:43.:33:48.

see the UK as a pioneer in seizing these new commercial opportunities.

:33:49.:33:52.

Perhaps thinking of rail passengers trying to get their their jobs, the

:33:53.:34:01.

secretary has spoke about abandoned workers and the Unite's Ken

:34:02.:34:05.

McCluskey is doing a Ukip move, resigning and trying to return. Will

:34:06.:34:10.

my honourable friend tell the RMT that 250 people will guaranteed

:34:11.:34:17.

employment should not put the lives and safety of southern rail

:34:18.:34:21.

passengers at risk? Hype' sure my honourable friend will be speaking

:34:22.:34:26.

on behalf of many thousands of rail passengers in his constituency, and

:34:27.:34:29.

many others -- I'm sure, in the south of England. It is deeply

:34:30.:34:33.

disappointing that some unions are threatening to strike over the

:34:34.:34:37.

Christmas period. The Government is now investing record amounts in

:34:38.:34:40.

improving our railways, up to ?40 billion over the next five years and

:34:41.:34:44.

we need everyone in industry, both management and unions to work

:34:45.:34:47.

together to secure the best deal for passengers. I have to say that the

:34:48.:34:54.

RMT's action shows co-ordinated contempt for the travelling public.

:34:55.:34:58.

And it seems designed to do nothing except bring about the maximum

:34:59.:35:04.

damage to people's lives. Mr Speaker there is heckling from the bedges

:35:05.:35:11.

opposite. -- benches opposite. This party, Mr Speaker s on the side of

:35:12.:35:16.

rail passengers. -- is on the side. I hope that the party opposite will

:35:17.:35:20.

join me in saying to the rail union leaders - sort it out, put the

:35:21.:35:24.

travelling public first. Stop the squabbling and tell your members to

:35:25.:35:29.

get back to work. THE SPEAKER: Emily Thornbury.

:35:30.:35:36.

CHEERS Nchtsds thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank

:35:37.:35:41.

you Mr Speaker. I'm sure the whole house will want to join with me in

:35:42.:35:47.

commemorating the 71st anniversary of the Pearl Harbour attack where

:35:48.:35:52.

thousands of American service personnel and civilians survived.

:35:53.:35:55.

Winston Churchill summoned Parliament to debate the British

:35:56.:36:00.

response. When he z he said this "It is indispensable to aer our system

:36:01.:36:03.

of Government that Parliament should play its full part in all important

:36:04.:36:09.

acts of the state." These quords are a vital reminder that even at a time

:36:10.:36:13.

of crisis, in fact especially at a time of national crisis, the role of

:36:14.:36:17.

Parliament is central A in that same spirit, we welcome the Government's

:36:18.:36:20.

decision to accept our motion today, that they will show Parliament their

:36:21.:36:24.

plan for Brexit, before Article 50 is triggered. So, can I ask the

:36:25.:36:29.

Leader of the House one central question about this plan? Does the

:36:30.:36:33.

Government want the UK to remain part of the customs union?

:36:34.:36:43.

Mr Speaker, can I first of all join the honourable lady opposite in

:36:44.:36:49.

marking the anniversary of Pearl Harbour, in remembering all of those

:36:50.:36:59.

who lost their lives at that time, but, also, marking with a sense of

:37:00.:37:05.

some celebration, even, the fact that Prime Minister Abe is joining

:37:06.:37:09.

President Obama in going to Pearl Harbour, the first Japanese Prime

:37:10.:37:15.

Minister so to do, and that sign of reconciliation, putting ancient

:37:16.:37:22.

conflicts behind is a welcome one. The point about Europe. The

:37:23.:37:26.

Government has made it clear we would seek to give additional

:37:27.:37:30.

clarity about our position at the earliest opportunity but it has been

:37:31.:37:33.

the case as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said many

:37:34.:37:36.

times, that one of our core objectives is going to be to secure

:37:37.:37:39.

the maximum freedom for British companies, both to have access to

:37:40.:37:42.

and operate within the single European market.

:37:43.:37:47.

I thank the Leader of the House for that answer but I would respectfully

:37:48.:37:50.

say to him that surely on this issue, the answer should be

:37:51.:37:54.

straightforward. We all know that it would be a disaster to British

:37:55.:37:58.

business if we do not remain part of the customs union.

:37:59.:38:03.

As the Leader of the House himself said in February, "Everything we

:38:04.:38:06.

take for granted, trade without customs checks or paper work at

:38:07.:38:11.

National Front years, would all be up in the air, it is massive what is

:38:12.:38:18.

at risk." On this side of the House we couldn't agree with him more. Can

:38:19.:38:22.

he put it beyond doubt, right now, today, tell us - does the Government

:38:23.:38:26.

want the UK to stay in the customs union?

:38:27.:38:34.

The honourable lady and I - she's right Mr Speaker, the honourable

:38:35.:38:37.

lady and I both argued passionately for the Remain cause during the

:38:38.:38:41.

referendum. What separates us now is that I am part of a Conservative

:38:42.:38:47.

Government, which is working together to respect the democratic

:38:48.:38:52.

verdict... CHEERS And to secure the best-possible

:38:53.:38:56.

outcome for the prosperity and security of the entire United

:38:57.:39:02.

Kingdom, from those into,s. Whereas the honourable lady, even just two

:39:03.:39:06.

months ago was telling us that she wanted to go back to the British

:39:07.:39:10.

people in some way. She needs to decide whether she accepts the

:39:11.:39:16.

democratic verdict or not. Of course we accept the democratic decision of

:39:17.:39:20.

the British public. Of course we do, but the difference

:39:21.:39:25.

between our side of the House and that side, is that we want to leave

:39:26.:39:30.

the European Union on behalf of 100%, on behalf of the whole of this

:39:31.:39:34.

nation. Now, we really need to have a straightforward answer to a

:39:35.:39:37.

straightforward question. Because leaving the customs union would mean

:39:38.:39:41.

having to check every container coming in at Dover. It would mean UK

:39:42.:39:48.

firms having to prove their origin tests, whenever they export to

:39:49.:39:52.

Europe T would mean chaos and it would mean grud lock for

:39:53.:39:56.

cross-border supply chains and as the Leader of the House -- gridlock.

:39:57.:40:01.

And as the Leader of the House said in lamb and beef exports, they go

:40:02.:40:05.

Taif-free, they go without any extra checks, you cannot guarantee any of

:40:06.:40:09.

that if we are outside. Now, again, on this side, we agree with what he

:40:10.:40:14.

said six months ago. The question is - does he still agree with himself?

:40:15.:40:28.

I thought it hadn't escaped the honourable lady's attention that

:40:29.:40:31.

there has been a significant referendum since February and that

:40:32.:40:36.

changes the context in which we are now having to operate. We face

:40:37.:40:41.

achallenging, yes, very wide-ranging negotiation and it would be harmful

:40:42.:40:44.

to the national interest for me or another ministers to engage in the

:40:45.:40:49.

sort of detailed expedition of our negotiating position that she is now

:40:50.:40:53.

pressing upon me. None of the other 27 governments is doing that, nor

:40:54.:40:58.

should we. Dear oh dear, we are not asking for

:40:59.:41:06.

details. We are asking about a central plank of the negotiation. If

:41:07.:41:10.

he can not give us an answer on the customs union as a whole... THE

:41:11.:41:14.

SPEAKER: Order, order. Both the questions and the answers will be

:41:15.:41:19.

heard. So, if the juvenile behaviour can stop, that would be really

:41:20.:41:25.

#4e7ful to the scrutiny process. Emily Thornbury -- really helpful.

:41:26.:41:29.

We don't get an answer on the whole of the customs union. Can I ask him

:41:30.:41:34.

about one specificp point. Since 1993 there have been no customs

:41:35.:41:38.

checks between the land border between Northern Ireland and the

:41:39.:41:41.

Irish Republic. In May when visiting Northern Ireland, the right

:41:42.:41:43.

honourable gentleman said - if the UK was in the part of the customs

:41:44.:41:49.

union, then there would have to be custom checks at the border and he

:41:50.:42:00.

said, for anyone to pretend otherwise would be "flying in the

:42:01.:42:03.

face of reality" can he confirm that is the position and if he is right,

:42:04.:42:07.

he must make it clear this is something that the Government is

:42:08.:42:10.

determined to avoid? The Prime Minister and the Northern Ireland

:42:11.:42:15.

Secretary have repeatedly made it clear that we, as indeed has the

:42:16.:42:20.

Irish Government, want to see the very long-standing common travel

:42:21.:42:24.

arguments and the free trade arrangementings across the Irish

:42:25.:42:27.

border continue. We are actively engaged in talking both to the

:42:28.:42:31.

Northern Ireland Executive and to the Government of the Republic of

:42:32.:42:35.

Ireland, about those matters. There is goodwill on all those sides to

:42:36.:42:39.

try and reach a solution that works for the people, north and south of

:42:40.:42:42.

the border. The Leader of the House has made the

:42:43.:42:46.

familiar argument that he can't give answers, that it is all to be

:42:47.:42:51.

resolved through a negotiation. Brexit means Brexit, Brexit means

:42:52.:42:54.

breakfast, but that is not what the Secretary of State for Brexit

:42:55.:42:57.

himself said when he was asked about the customs union in September,

:42:58.:43:02.

because he said "We have looked at this matter carefully and that is

:43:03.:43:07.

exactly the sort of decision that we will resolve before we trigger

:43:08.:43:11.

Article 50." So, if the Government is going to decide the position on

:43:12.:43:15.

this issue before March 31st, account Leader of the House confirm

:43:16.:43:19.

-- can the Leader of the House confirm that the British people and

:43:20.:43:22.

the British Parliament will be told some answers to my questions before

:43:23.:43:29.

they tell the rest of Europe? Mr Speaker if the answers sound

:43:30.:43:33.

familiar t maybe that we need constant repetition before the

:43:34.:43:39.

honourable lady will understand and appreciate it. The Government is, at

:43:40.:43:45.

the moment, engaged in a consultation with more than 50

:43:46.:43:51.

sectors of United Kingdom business, to ascertain precisely which aspects

:43:52.:43:54.

of European Union membership work well for them, which they see as

:43:55.:44:00.

harmful, where the opportunities beyond EU membership lie. We will

:44:01.:44:05.

come to a decision and we will go into negotiations on behalf of the

:44:06.:44:10.

full 100% of the United Kingdom population and all four nations of

:44:11.:44:13.

the United Kingdom. The fact is and he knows t we all

:44:14.:44:20.

know it. He can -- he knows it. He can consult as much as he likes the

:44:21.:44:24.

answer will come back, we should be part of a customs union. It is

:44:25.:44:27.

hugely disappointed that on a day when the Government is committing to

:44:28.:44:32.

its greater transparency on plans for Brexit we get the usual stone

:44:33.:44:36.

walling. We have a Government promising to tell us the plan, while

:44:37.:44:39.

refusing to give us the answers to the most basic of questions. We have

:44:40.:44:42.

a Government promising to give Parliament a spend when they are

:44:43.:44:46.

spending we don't know how much of tax payers' money across the road in

:44:47.:44:49.

the Supreme Court trying to stop Parliament having a say on this. In

:44:50.:44:52.

short, we have a Government that cannot tell us the plan, because

:44:53.:44:57.

they do not have a plan. They do not have a plan. In February, the Leader

:44:58.:45:05.

of the House said when he was hearing about the Leave campaign,

:45:06.:45:11.

was "confusing, contradictory nonsense" my final question is this

:45:12.:45:15.

- are we hearing anything different from this Government today? Mr

:45:16.:45:24.

Speaker, we will publish, before Article 50 is triggered, a statement

:45:25.:45:29.

about our negotiating strategy and objectives, as the Prime Minister

:45:30.:45:34.

has said yesterday. But the honourable lady seems, again, to be

:45:35.:45:39.

in a state of utter denial about the consequences that flow from the

:45:40.:45:45.

referendum decision. No other EU Government is seeking to reverse or

:45:46.:45:49.

question the legitimacy of that vote in the way that she and a number of

:45:50.:45:54.

her colleagues are still trying to do but I'm afraid that just

:45:55.:45:59.

indicates how distant the Labour Party now is from any aspiration to

:46:00.:46:05.

be back in Government again. We watched them in action - it's like,

:46:06.:46:18.

quarterlying like Mutiny on the Bounty reshotly the Carry On team.

:46:19.:46:22.

THE SPEAKER: Order, I want to hear the words flowing.

:46:23.:46:33.

There is no reason why the chair should be denied these words. They

:46:34.:46:41.

are rudderless, drifting on Europe as on so many other aspects of

:46:42.:46:46.

policy. No wonder that decent working people who for generations

:46:47.:46:51.

have looked to Labour as their champions have given up in despair

:46:52.:46:53.

and looked to this party as the authentic voice of working families.

:46:54.:47:05.

Mr Speaker, in 1943, a 16-year-old girl was forcibly taken to

:47:06.:47:10.

Auschwitz, where she witnessed the horrors of the death camps. On

:47:11.:47:14.

liberation she came to this country with her mother, where she raised a

:47:15.:47:18.

family and became a nurse. She dedicated her life to making sure

:47:19.:47:24.

that the people of this country and beyond know the horrors of the

:47:25.:47:29.

Holocaust. Last week, that lady turned 90. And Kitty Hart-Moxon is

:47:30.:47:42.

with us today at Prime Minister's Questions.

:47:43.:47:42.

APPLAUSE Will my right honourable friend join

:47:43.:48:03.

with me, and I think the whole house in wishing her a very happy belated

:48:04.:48:08.

birthday and thanking her for her lifetime of dedication to raising

:48:09.:48:13.

this important issue and also pay tribute to the Holocaust educational

:48:14.:48:18.

trust, who do everything possible so that we all remember and witness the

:48:19.:48:23.

horrors of the worst part of the 20th century? First of all, Mr

:48:24.:48:31.

Speaker, I am grateful to my right honourable friend for raising this

:48:32.:48:34.

important issue and I would like to join him in marking the achievements

:48:35.:48:40.

of Kitty Hart-Moxon and of the Holocaust Educational Trust. I can

:48:41.:48:44.

never forget the impact of discovering as a schoolboy that two

:48:45.:48:49.

of the boys in my class had fathers who had survived Auschwitz. It's

:48:50.:48:53.

only a couple of generations ago that Europe was plunged into this

:48:54.:48:57.

unspeakable horror and it is important that not just the

:48:58.:49:08.

educational trust but all of us play our part to ensure that the memory

:49:09.:49:11.

of the Holocaust lives on and that the wider lessons of this dark

:49:12.:49:13.

period in our history are learned and I think I would be grateful to

:49:14.:49:16.

all members right across the House and all political parties for their

:49:17.:49:21.

support in working together to ensure this vital work continues. Mr

:49:22.:49:30.

Angus Robertson. Some of the most deprived communities in the country

:49:31.:49:33.

are in Glasgow and today we learn apparently that the government plans

:49:34.:49:38.

to close job centres in those very communities, in Parkhead,

:49:39.:49:49.

Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Anniesland and Maryhill. Is it true that the

:49:50.:49:51.

government are planning to close these offices and add misery to the

:49:52.:49:56.

lives of thousands of people in Glasgow who currently use these

:49:57.:50:02.

centres? Clearly the Department for Work and Pensions like every

:50:03.:50:05.

government department does like from time to time at the number of

:50:06.:50:10.

offices it has but the right honourable gentleman makes a

:50:11.:50:14.

perfectly reasonable point on behalf of people in Glasgow. I will ask my

:50:15.:50:17.

right honourable friend the Work and Pensions Secretary to contact him

:50:18.:50:25.

with the details he is seeking. I'm sorry, Mr Speaker, that is not good

:50:26.:50:26.

enough. Absolutely! Being tackled when dealing with

:50:27.:50:42.

communities that are deprived does not behove Tory members well in

:50:43.:50:47.

Scotland. -- being tackled. The leader of the house is correct to

:50:48.:50:55.

say that the Department of work and pension has plans to cut the state

:50:56.:51:07.

by 20%. The DWP is planning to cut Glasgow by 50%. Why is this

:51:08.:51:12.

government planning to disproportionately cut vital job

:51:13.:51:16.

centres in some of the most deprived communities in our country, why? The

:51:17.:51:23.

key element in any such decision that a government department has to

:51:24.:51:29.

make is not the raw number of offices that there should be but

:51:30.:51:34.

about how accessible the offices and the services that they provide

:51:35.:51:36.

continued to be to the people who need to use them. And I am

:51:37.:51:43.

absolutely confident that it is that criterion that is at the heart of my

:51:44.:51:48.

right honourable friend's thinking. Planning for the future of offices

:51:49.:51:51.

in Scotland and everywhere else in the UK. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

:51:52.:51:58.

Passengers of the chaser of mine face chaos and misery in the autumn

:51:59.:52:01.

and this year it's been worse than ever. Delayed and overcrowded trains

:52:02.:52:08.

leave passengers stranded at stations and being late for work and

:52:09.:52:12.

school. Well my right honourable friend outline what measures the

:52:13.:52:15.

government is taking too penalised poor performing train operators?

:52:16.:52:22.

First of all can I express my sympathy to my right honourable

:52:23.:52:27.

friend -- tonight honourable friend and all passengers who have come

:52:28.:52:30.

across these problems on the Chase Line. It is clearly not acceptable

:52:31.:52:35.

and it is important that the operator works hard to secure rapid

:52:36.:52:38.

and sustained improvement, the government has introduced new rules

:52:39.:52:42.

to make sure that rail passengers will soon be able to claim

:52:43.:52:46.

compensation if their train is more than 15 minutes late but as the

:52:47.:52:50.

Transport Secretary said yesterday more needs to be done and we want to

:52:51.:52:56.

see closer work across the industry so that this problem can be resolved

:52:57.:53:03.

more swiftly than in the past. Thank you, Mr Speaker, does the leader of

:53:04.:53:07.

the house agree with the north-east member for Somerset that Brexit

:53:08.:53:11.

offers an opportunity to remove pesky emissions standards? In the

:53:12.:53:15.

red, white and blue Brexit will he still commit to tackle this will

:53:16.:53:21.

tackling global warming just become a of hot air? The government remains

:53:22.:53:29.

utterly committed to both national and global ambitions and targets

:53:30.:53:36.

when it comes to climate change. Indeed my right honourable friend,

:53:37.:53:41.

the current Home Secretary, in her previous job, played a key role in

:53:42.:53:45.

brokering the Paris agreement last year, the first ever global

:53:46.:53:51.

agreement on climate change. The honourable lady, I hope, would

:53:52.:53:55.

welcome the fact that we will now be ahead of our targets and ambitions

:53:56.:53:59.

in delivering on the proportion of electricity provided by renewables

:54:00.:54:04.

in this country and in continuing to work to get our carbon emissions

:54:05.:54:09.

down. Thank you, Mr Speaker. There has been much talk recently about

:54:10.:54:14.

paying for access to a tariff- free single market. I think that is a

:54:15.:54:22.

very good idea. Given that the United Kingdom is the fifth biggest

:54:23.:54:28.

economy in the world, and we have a ?70 billion trade deficit with the

:54:29.:54:35.

EU, would be excellent acting Prime Minister... Tell the House how much

:54:36.:54:45.

the European Union should pay for tariff - free access to the UK

:54:46.:54:53.

single market? I suppose I should say, thank you to my honourable

:54:54.:54:59.

friend for the upgrade! Although I hope that is limiting the

:55:00.:55:07.

compliment. He makes a good point in that a settlement at the end of our

:55:08.:55:11.

negotiation which maintains maximum access to and freedom to operate

:55:12.:55:17.

within the European market for UK companies elsewhere in Europe and

:55:18.:55:21.

for European companies here is an our mutual interest about that will

:55:22.:55:27.

inspire negotiators on both side. Mr Speaker, how does closing miracle

:55:28.:55:31.

job centre, one of the most deprived parts of the country, help my

:55:32.:55:36.

constituents find a job? Does he accept that travelling to other

:55:37.:55:39.

centres will mean higher costs for those on low incomes and increasing

:55:40.:55:44.

sanctions, why does this government continued to target the poorest and

:55:45.:55:49.

most vulnerable? If the government has been targeting the poorest it is

:55:50.:55:53.

in getting them back to work in record numbers. And it has been in

:55:54.:56:02.

providing a boost to the pay of people on low pay through the

:56:03.:56:05.

introduction and increase in the national living wage. I wish that

:56:06.:56:10.

the honourable gentleman was prepared to celebrate this

:56:11.:56:14.

achievements. Thank you Mr Speaker, as we are about to commence the most

:56:15.:56:18.

important negotiation for decades does my right honourable friend

:56:19.:56:22.

agree that the government being forced to disclose its negotiation

:56:23.:56:25.

strategy at this stage is rather like showing your hand at cards to

:56:26.:56:31.

your opponent before a game of poker, and can I urge him to take no

:56:32.:56:36.

advice from the party opposite? They only have one card to play on this

:56:37.:56:44.

and it is always the Joker! Mr Speaker, we have said we will come

:56:45.:56:48.

forward with more details about our strategic aims going into the

:56:49.:56:50.

negotiation but it would harm the national interest if we were to go

:56:51.:56:53.

into the kind of detailed explanation of our negotiating

:56:54.:56:58.

position that the opposition urges upon us. That is not how any of the

:56:59.:57:02.

other 27 governments acting of thinking and we should learn from

:57:03.:57:09.

bad example. Does the leader of the house agree that tonight's vote on

:57:10.:57:14.

the Prime Minister's Amendment, which we fully support, is a vote of

:57:15.:57:18.

the highest significance and great importance because for the first

:57:19.:57:22.

time honourable and right Honourable members of this House will have the

:57:23.:57:25.

opportunity to vote on whether they respect the will of the people of

:57:26.:57:29.

the United Kingdom, and whether they will get on with implementing it,

:57:30.:57:34.

people will be able to read in Hansard tomorrow who stands by

:57:35.:57:37.

respecting the will of the people of the UK? And will he also agree...

:57:38.:57:45.

And I am sure that he will... The more red white and blue he makes it

:57:46.:57:52.

the better the us and the Unionist benches! The right honourable

:57:53.:57:58.

gentleman as so often makes a powerful and important point. The

:57:59.:58:04.

vote tonight will be the first opportunity for members of this

:58:05.:58:09.

house to decide whether or not they support the government's timetable

:58:10.:58:13.

of triggering Article 50 by the end of March 20 17. And any Right

:58:14.:58:20.

Honourable member who votes against that motion will, in my view, be

:58:21.:58:25.

seeking to thwart the outcome of the referendum in most undemocratic

:58:26.:58:31.

fashion. Mr Speaker, this country's nuclear deterrent is our ultimate

:58:32.:58:35.

defence and must be maintained at all costs, yet hundreds of my

:58:36.:58:39.

constituents who could at the atomic weapons Establishment are currently

:58:40.:58:44.

on strike or work to rule over pensions. These are people who more

:58:45.:58:47.

often than not have devoted their working lives to tending our nuclear

:58:48.:58:53.

defence and to whom promises were made during privatisation. Can I ask

:58:54.:58:57.

that the leader of the house commits to sit down with the promised and

:58:58.:59:00.

review the situation to ensure that those promises are being kept? I

:59:01.:59:07.

will certainly ensure that the Prime Minister is informed about this

:59:08.:59:11.

matter and my honourable friend is right to raise these concerns on

:59:12.:59:15.

behalf of his constituents. My understanding is that the proposed

:59:16.:59:19.

changes to the atomic weapons Establishment pensions scheme are a

:59:20.:59:22.

matter for the company as the employer but I can assure my right

:59:23.:59:26.

honourable friend that the Defence Secretary has been in close contact

:59:27.:59:32.

with AWE throughout the process and has also met the trade unions and is

:59:33.:59:35.

carefully considering recent developments to see what can be

:59:36.:59:41.

done. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I know the House will join me in sending

:59:42.:59:45.

their sympathies to the family of David Brown who aged 18 took his own

:59:46.:59:50.

life. The inquest into his death has heard that he did so on the day he

:59:51.:59:53.

was due to sign on at the job centre after saying that he felt belittled

:59:54.:59:58.

by staff despite actively looking for work and seeking an

:59:59.:00:01.

apprenticeship. Shortly before taking his own life he told his mum,

:00:02.:00:05.

the way that the job centre treat people, it's no surprise that people

:00:06.:00:10.

commit suicide. Will the leader of the house and take a review into

:00:11.:00:13.

this case and also undertake to take stock of six years of brutal welfare

:00:14.:00:18.

reform and look at the way that the DWP treats it most vulnerable... Mr

:00:19.:00:27.

Speaker, can I first also express and reserved sympathy for the family

:00:28.:00:33.

of David Brown. No parent, no family, should have to go through

:00:34.:00:41.

that kind of shocking experience. Clearly human beings in any

:00:42.:00:47.

organisation sometimes take decisions that get things wrong and

:00:48.:00:54.

I will ask the work and pensions department to look at the case she

:00:55.:00:58.

has described. But I do have to say that I think the principle remains

:00:59.:01:01.

right that while staff should always behave with courtesy towards people

:01:02.:01:05.

seeking to claim benefits, it is also right that we should expect

:01:06.:01:11.

people who are receiving benefits to be subject to the kind of

:01:12.:01:16.

disciplines that apply to people in work, even if they are on low pay,

:01:17.:01:20.

there is a principle of fairness here that lies behind the approach

:01:21.:01:25.

that DWP takes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I applaud the Prime

:01:26.:01:28.

Minister 's vision for a government for all. As chair of the all-party

:01:29.:01:34.

committee on community engagement, the FTSE 150 has less than 4% of

:01:35.:01:39.

individuals from an ethnic minority on its board. Will the government

:01:40.:01:42.

support the vision to help to increase that to 10% by 2021? It is

:01:43.:01:49.

very clear that boardrooms need to do more to reflect the reality of

:01:50.:01:53.

modern Britain and the government supports the principle of increasing

:01:54.:02:03.

the diversity of boards. That is why we should support the initiative

:02:04.:02:06.

chaired by Sir John Parker and we encourage businesses to act on his

:02:07.:02:11.

recommendations. Thank you, Mr Speaker. A recent FOI showed that

:02:12.:02:19.

Pinderfields Hospital placed ambulances and divert to do is

:02:20.:02:24.

prehospital 61 times in the past 12 months. One hospital scheduled for

:02:25.:02:30.

downgrade next year. In light of evidence showing that this hospital

:02:31.:02:35.

currently can't cope will the leader of the house pledge urgent support

:02:36.:02:38.

from the government to keep Dewsbury A E open? The NHS is certainly

:02:39.:02:45.

busier than it ever has been in its history, which is why it should be a

:02:46.:02:52.

matter of thanks and tribute to hard-working NHS staff that 90% of

:02:53.:02:58.

people going to A E are still being seen within the four our

:02:59.:03:04.

target. The point about the Confederation of local services in

:03:05.:03:07.

any part of the country is that these need to be driven by local

:03:08.:03:17.

clinicians working together with the CCGs who are the people who actually

:03:18.:03:21.

manage what is needed in each locality. The local authority to its

:03:22.:03:24.

health committee has the right to call in proposed changes to services

:03:25.:03:29.

and refer them to the secretary of State if they are uncomfortable with

:03:30.:03:34.

them. Messi thank you, Mr Speaker. I know my right honourable friend will

:03:35.:03:40.

share with me the importance of the creative sector and that in

:03:41.:03:45.

conjunction with the Welsh language makes S4 see in my constituency

:03:46.:03:48.

hugely important to Welsh and British culture and economy. Will he

:03:49.:03:56.

confirm this government 's commitment to protect S4C why we

:03:57.:04:00.

review its future? We fully committed to the future of Welsh

:04:01.:04:05.

language broadcasting and to S4C. I'm pleased to see the licence fee

:04:06.:04:10.

settlement we have agreed has given financial certainty protecting its

:04:11.:04:13.

funding at more than ?74 million a year for the next five years and we

:04:14.:04:18.

are committed to ensuring that the channel continues to make

:04:19.:04:21.

first-class programmes and serve Welsh audiences in the constituency

:04:22.:04:26.

of my honourable friend and right across the UK. Is the leader of the

:04:27.:04:30.

House aware of reports of children being massacred and thrown into

:04:31.:04:35.

fires, women being raped and houses razed to the ground and what

:04:36.:04:39.

representations have this government made to the Burmese authorities or

:04:40.:04:44.

the militaries in this regard? Yes, those reports are extremely

:04:45.:04:50.

concerning as the honourable lady knows, there is a long history of

:04:51.:04:55.

discrimination against these people in Burma, both British ministers and

:04:56.:05:02.

the British Embassy and officials in London make our concerned very clear

:05:03.:05:11.

to the Burmese authorities. Following the revelations in the

:05:12.:05:14.

panorama programme Clinton has in my constituency is closed and three

:05:15.:05:17.

other care homes run by the same group have been rated inadequate and

:05:18.:05:22.

is CQC and two others are currently under inspection. Concerns have been

:05:23.:05:26.

raised about these homes figures and cannot be acceptable that it took

:05:27.:05:30.

the BBC to provoke the action desperately needed. Does the leader

:05:31.:05:33.

of the has agreed that it is now time to urgently review the role of

:05:34.:05:39.

the CQC to ensure that in future concerns raised by residents, family

:05:40.:05:42.

and staff are properly and promptly addressed? I think that old and

:05:43.:05:49.

vulnerable people deserve the highest quality care possible, no

:05:50.:05:52.

excuse for services that fall short of expectations in the way that my

:05:53.:05:57.

honourable friend has described. This CQC does have extensive powers

:05:58.:06:02.

in law to ensure that no one in the chain of responsibility is immune

:06:03.:06:06.

against legal accountability. And I would expect this CQC to exercise

:06:07.:06:11.

those powers in full, in this case but he's made some criticisms of the

:06:12.:06:16.

CQC and the government has been looking into ways to improve its

:06:17.:06:20.

processes and increase its efficiency and my right honourable

:06:21.:06:23.

friend the Minister for community health and get discussed this issue

:06:24.:06:30.

with the CQC today. 6% of methane from fracking is leaked from

:06:31.:06:36.

fugitive emissions. Given that methane is 86 times worse than

:06:37.:06:40.

carbon dioxide for global warming over 20 years will he support the

:06:41.:06:45.

Council for Europe's call for banning fracking or at least a

:06:46.:06:54.

maximum of 0.1% fugitive emissions at the well head? No, Mr Speaker,

:06:55.:07:00.

the government took its decision to give the go-ahead to fracking after

:07:01.:07:05.

extensive consideration of both the economic and environmental risks and

:07:06.:07:09.

opportunities involved. We are confident that it can be carried out

:07:10.:07:14.

in a way that is saved, that does not harm the environment but which

:07:15.:07:19.

also provides job opportunities for this country and makes this country

:07:20.:07:25.

less dependent on imported energy. Mr Speaker, I expect my right

:07:26.:07:30.

honourable friend will be astonished if not aghast to learn that a

:07:31.:07:37.

succession of journalists from the BBC have contacted me seeking to

:07:38.:07:41.

manufacture stories of backbench rebellion! On the issue of the EU. I

:07:42.:07:58.

want to hear about these activities! Will he agree with me that on this

:07:59.:08:01.

controversial issues the BBC should stick to its charter obligation for

:08:02.:08:07.

accuracy and impartiality instead of seeking to create problems with the

:08:08.:08:15.

government! Mr Speaker, I am sure that my honourable friend is shocked

:08:16.:08:22.

at the thought that anybody could look to him as a source of

:08:23.:08:28.

information about rebellion against the government! I hope that he will

:08:29.:08:31.

be able to find some comfort in the fact that the new Royal Charter

:08:32.:08:38.

agreement requires the BBC to deliver impartial news, the first

:08:39.:08:41.

time impartiality has been enshrined in the BBC's mission. Having

:08:42.:08:49.

received a response from the Prime Minister to my request for a

:08:50.:08:52.

children's funeral fund I was disturbed to be told that the fund

:08:53.:09:01.

can provide, and simple respectable funeral, this response totally lacks

:09:02.:09:07.

any understanding of my request. As the leader of the House any

:09:08.:09:09.

authority to facilitate a meeting between myself and other bereaved

:09:10.:09:13.

mothers so we can explain to the Prime Minister exactly what we are

:09:14.:09:17.

asking for? This request is important to us as parents. Too many

:09:18.:09:23.

in this house and from my postbag very many people and organisations

:09:24.:09:31.

throughout this country. Burying a child must be an incredibly painful

:09:32.:09:38.

experience for any family, and I think all of us would want to pay

:09:39.:09:46.

our respects to and have enormous sympathy with the honourable member

:09:47.:09:51.

for Swansea Is. And she speaks on behalf of, she says, thousands of

:09:52.:09:55.

parents who go through that anguish. As the Prime Minister said, there

:09:56.:09:59.

are mechanisms in place for financial support from central

:10:00.:10:03.

government to be available and local authorities are of course free and

:10:04.:10:07.

many of them to waive funeral fees for child burials. -- many of them

:10:08.:10:14.

do. I will speak to my ministerial colleagues about the request from

:10:15.:10:18.

the honourable lady for meeting and I am sure she will receive a

:10:19.:10:25.

response. Good train links are vital for constituents to get to work so

:10:26.:10:30.

it's incredible frustrating that cross-country operates 63 services a

:10:31.:10:33.

day between Birmingham and Bristol yet only three stop at Gloucester.

:10:34.:10:37.

Would my right honourable friend ensure that ministers, in extending

:10:38.:10:41.

the franchise of the train operators, do not allow cross

:10:42.:10:44.

country to go on treating Gloucester like a letter to be avoided at all

:10:45.:10:49.

cost and oblige them to deliver a service that every city deserves.

:10:50.:11:01.

Any of us who have been to Gloucester know that it's a place

:11:02.:11:05.

that you want to be able to visit frequently and easily. The

:11:06.:11:07.

government is investing record amounts in improving railways and as

:11:08.:11:12.

regards his case, transport ministers are working with

:11:13.:11:15.

cross-country and great Western to see how the service can be improved.

:11:16.:11:26.

Prime Minister's Questions comes to be a end without the Prime Minister

:11:27.:11:35.

or the Leader of the Opposition. David Lidington and Emily Thornbury,

:11:36.:11:39.

probably showing her legal background and franing, concentrated

:11:40.:11:42.

on one specific question, to which she didn't get an answer, even

:11:43.:11:47.

though she pushed hard at it and held Mr Lidington's feet to the

:11:48.:11:50.

fire. She wanted to know whether or not we would remain inside the

:11:51.:11:54.

customs union, if and when we leave the European Union. There was no

:11:55.:11:58.

disstipt or clear answer came to that. Miss Thornbury generally

:11:59.:12:03.

thought to have done a pretty good job in that, in bearing down on one

:12:04.:12:07.

particular area, which the Government finds hard to answer. I

:12:08.:12:20.

think she'll, on both sides of the aisle get good reviews. As Prime

:12:21.:12:24.

Minister's Questions come to an end, I understand that Donald J Trump is

:12:25.:12:31.

about to go live on the Today programme on NBC in the United

:12:32.:12:40.

States, where sad for Nigel Farage, that Mr Trump has been named the

:12:41.:12:45.

Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Well, back to the Commons. Like you,

:12:46.:12:56.

Ian whitly from Altrincham said that it was entertaining, Emily Thornbury

:12:57.:13:00.

gave Jeremy Corbyn a lesson. And another says "What a diabolical

:13:01.:13:04.

mess, it is difficult to see any gross regarding questions about the

:13:05.:13:08.

EU." And Martin says "It is clear from Thornbury's questions about the

:13:09.:13:12.

custom union that Labour want a soft Brexit and effectively remaining in

:13:13.:13:16.

the EU, which goes against the 52% that voted to leave." And this from

:13:17.:13:21.

Terence "It is idiotic pretending there can be anything other than a

:13:22.:13:26.

hard border between the two Irelands, neither the UKpm or the

:13:27.:13:33.

Irish premier will decide, the EU will decide." I said that Emily

:13:34.:13:38.

Thornbury focussed on one issue and going at it again and again but we

:13:39.:13:42.

should say David Lidington performed well, too. I think they both did

:13:43.:13:49.

rather W I think Emily Thornbury she probably used legal background,

:13:50.:13:53.

pressing him on one point she was effective, so was David Lidington.

:13:54.:13:57.

Not somebody well-known by the audience but somebody who is hugely

:13:58.:14:00.

experienced and broadly respected. I think we saw Y he appears to be

:14:01.:14:05.

across all of the issues. He managed to do what is difficult for

:14:06.:14:09.

Mintosters to do at the moment. Dance around the fact they are not

:14:10.:14:12.

giving any answers on the European Union, if they can possibly get away

:14:13.:14:17.

with T the one thing that Emily Thornbury didn't mention, though, is

:14:18.:14:20.

last week the Chancellor, the Foreign Secretary and indeed the

:14:21.:14:23.

Brexit secretary, David Davis, did actually give us some answers on

:14:24.:14:27.

where we might possibly be and some elements of the European

:14:28.:14:31.

negotiations. And there was an outbreak of applause during Prime

:14:32.:14:37.

Minister's Questions, for someone in the Public Gallery, which breaks two

:14:38.:14:39.

conventions of the House of Commons, one that there shouldn't be applause

:14:40.:14:43.

and secondly, that there should be no reference to anybody in the

:14:44.:14:52.

Public Gallery. However, since this involved a 90-year-old Holocaust

:14:53.:14:58.

survivor, a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp, a

:14:59.:15:02.

90-year-old named Kitty, I don't think anyone will complain about the

:15:03.:15:07.

conventions being breached. Many will think that that's the poupt of

:15:08.:15:12.

breaching conventions. Jenny Chapman would would it, in Emily's words be

:15:13.:15:17.

a disaster if we were to leave the dues Toms union? It would affect

:15:18.:15:22.

jobs and trade and our businesses so catastrophically T enables us to

:15:23.:15:26.

trade freely, the big issue that doesn't get debated very much, we

:15:27.:15:30.

talk about tariffs but it is the certificates of origin, so if you

:15:31.:15:34.

are trying to export a train made in County Durham to the EU, you would

:15:35.:15:39.

then have to prove where every single component of that train had

:15:40.:15:43.

come from T would be a huge burden. Why would it be catastrophic, your

:15:44.:15:47.

words? Because, the administration of it. They would have to be able to

:15:48.:15:51.

demonstrate where all the bits have come from T would be too much of a

:15:52.:15:55.

burden and too -- it would be too much of a burden and too easy for a

:15:56.:15:59.

big manufacture, like hit Aceh to take their factory somewhere else.

:16:00.:16:06.

So, if that's true -- Hitachi. If that's twru, why would

:16:07.:16:10.

Switzerland and nor way, who are not in the customs union, trade

:16:11.:16:14.

massively with the EU? They are not manufacturers in the way we are?

:16:15.:16:17.

Switzerland is. They are not assemblers in the way we are.

:16:18.:16:20.

Switzerland and Norway are saying to us - you don't want that as a deal,

:16:21.:16:24.

it wouldn't work for you, it works for them. Where have they said that?

:16:25.:16:29.

Norway has said to us. Where? I can't remember where, but they were

:16:30.:16:32.

clear, saying it is a good deal for them but actually not the right deal

:16:33.:16:38.

for us in the UK. But 70%. We need it be trade without these barriers.

:16:39.:16:44.

Norway is not in the customs union and 7 o 0% of Norway's strayed is

:16:45.:16:48.

with the European Union. -- 70%. Verses only 44% of our trade with

:16:49.:16:52.

the European Union. So I don't understand. It is what kind of

:16:53.:16:56.

trade. You were just making something in the north of England

:16:57.:17:00.

and you made it and sourced all the components for it locally that would

:17:01.:17:03.

be one thing. We don't do that. The trains' example I was use, we have a

:17:04.:17:07.

shell of a train from Japan, the engines are made in Germany, there

:17:08.:17:10.

are pieces of that structure that come from all over the world. And

:17:11.:17:16.

that would all need to be evidenced. S. That he true for Swiss watches.

:17:17.:17:24.

It is a situation that is already... It is very different. It is made of

:17:25.:17:28.

thousands of parts all of which sourced from all over the world. It

:17:29.:17:31.

is very difficult. I can understand it would cause problems. I mean the

:17:32.:17:35.

rules of origins issue causes problems. I'm not arguing that, but

:17:36.:17:40.

you are using the words disaster and catastrophic and people will look,

:17:41.:17:44.

for example, Switzerland is a huge exporter of pharmaceutical drugs

:17:45.:17:48.

into the EU. They are made up of all sorts of components from all over

:17:49.:17:54.

the world and yet they, their percentage of the GDP export at

:17:55.:17:59.

least aes much as we do to the EU. Norway exports almost one-third

:18:00.:18:02.

mother than we do. I don't understand -- more than we do. I

:18:03.:18:07.

don't understand where the word disaster and catastrophic will come

:18:08.:18:12.

from? We're clear, we think a hard Brexit will be a disaster for the

:18:13.:18:17.

UK. The customs union is part of what would differentiate a hard exit

:18:18.:18:22.

from a soft Brexit. There has been a study done by Open Europe, a

:18:23.:18:26.

pro-Remain organisation, and it worked out if there was a negative

:18:27.:18:32.

impact it would be around 0.8% of GDP until the rules of origin issues

:18:33.:18:39.

were fully handled so 0.8% of GDP is something you would not want to

:18:40.:18:42.

lose. I would suggest it doesn't fall into the category of disaster

:18:43.:18:46.

or catastrophic. I'm talking to businesses in the regions, this is

:18:47.:18:49.

what they are telling us and we take that very, very seriously. If you -

:18:50.:18:54.

the Government today can't answer the question of whether or not we

:18:55.:18:59.

would remain in the customs union. But it does follow, as night follow

:19:00.:19:05.

day, that if we are in the customs union, we can't do our own free

:19:06.:19:08.

trade deals. Do you accept that? No I don't accept that. Really? This is

:19:09.:19:13.

one of the - the points around the whole situation we have got. We are

:19:14.:19:17.

in a unique position, to any other country that has worked out a deal

:19:18.:19:20.

with Europe in the past. We are the first country to lee. Therefore, we

:19:21.:19:24.

have an opportunity to do something not trying to focus too much on

:19:25.:19:28.

trying to copy what somebody else has done but do something that is

:19:29.:19:32.

bespoke for our country. Can you give me an example Let me just

:19:33.:19:37.

finish... No I want to ask you this - can you give me an example of a

:19:38.:19:41.

country that's in the customs union and does it its own comprehensive

:19:42.:19:44.

free trade deals? No, I can't but there is no other country I can give

:19:45.:19:48.

you an example of that has been a member of the European Union and

:19:49.:19:53.

done a deal as it is exiting as a known partner, a knownentity that we

:19:54.:19:57.

are. As a constituency MP, particularly in the energy industry,

:19:58.:20:01.

I'm talking to businesses all the time, and I spoke to people who have

:20:02.:20:06.

voted Remain and campaign. I have spoken to businesses large and small

:20:07.:20:09.

that they are excited by the potential opportunities to do things

:20:10.:20:12.

differently. Explain to me, if we do things differently how it would

:20:13.:20:15.

work? The main purpose of the customs union is to set up external

:20:16.:20:21.

tariffs for those who are members of it. So if you are in the customs

:20:22.:20:29.

union, we all pay the same tariffs on goods coming in. If we are inside

:20:30.:20:33.

the customs union and therefore, subject to these tariffs and do a

:20:34.:20:37.

free trade deal with Canada, how would it not be be subject to these

:20:38.:20:49.

tariffs? You can't have both? That's what the negotiations are That's

:20:50.:20:53.

something the be Government will be going with, with our European

:20:54.:20:58.

partners. How would you say we would be subject to a 10% tariff as

:20:59.:21:03.

members fted customs union and do a free trade deal with Canada and say

:21:04.:21:08.

- you won't be subject of 10% tariffs how would that work? That's

:21:09.:21:13.

is subject to pre-agreement with our European partners that allows this

:21:14.:21:16.

country to do the deals. That's what the negotiations are about. Can you

:21:17.:21:22.

do a free trade deal with Canada or any other country and be inside the

:21:23.:21:26.

customs union which has external tariffs against Canada? This is the

:21:27.:21:29.

whole point of negotiations with your European partners about finding

:21:30.:21:33.

the right deal. You have no idea how to resolve that Both inside the EU

:21:34.:21:37.

and outside the EU. It is what our businesses want and it is why as

:21:38.:21:41.

David Lidington said, we are talking about businesses. The truth is you

:21:42.:21:44.

have no idea. The truth is we are at the start of the negotiations. And

:21:45.:21:49.

you have no idea. . . We can't predict on where we will end up

:21:50.:21:54.

getting the best deal for the country. They must have magicians.

:21:55.:22:00.

Before we let you go, a letter in the Evening Standard by Chris

:22:01.:22:03.

Grayling, the Transport Secretary at the time. From 2013, written to

:22:04.:22:08.

Boris Johnson, the then Conservative mayor for London responding to his

:22:09.:22:12.

request for Transport for London to take on responsibility for a number

:22:13.:22:15.

of rail services in the London area to which he reply quoeps I wouldn't

:22:16.:22:19.

be in favour of changing the current arrangement not because I have fears

:22:20.:22:24.

under the immediate future but because I would like to keep

:22:25.:22:28.

suburban rail services out of the clutches of any future Labour

:22:29.:22:31.

mayor." And there has been a foe sieve Russ response from a Tory

:22:32.:22:35.

colleague This is awkward and embarrassing and gives rise to

:22:36.:22:38.

immediate allegations that he is not putting the interests of passengers,

:22:39.:22:42.

the rail industry or London and the south-east first, instead he is

:22:43.:22:45.

putting partisan, narrow interests of the Conservative Party, rather

:22:46.:22:48.

than his constituents fist. That's what the letter suggests. We are yet

:22:49.:22:56.

hear from him but now he is in the job of Transport Secretary,

:22:57.:22:59.

immediately it would be within the grounds of his responsibility and

:23:00.:23:02.

there will be a fierce row now between him and the Mayor of London,

:23:03.:23:05.

Sadiq Khan, this is tricky for him to answer. It is, and there are now

:23:06.:23:11.

calls from Bob Neil, the Tory MP who has raised this issue and said how

:23:12.:23:15.

you have explained it, in terms of putting his own partisan views

:23:16.:23:17.

before the interests of his constituents. Let's hear what he had

:23:18.:23:25.

to say. (No sound.

:23:26.:23:34.

)... Of rail Fran can chiess in London to Labour mayor. In other

:23:35.:23:38.

words he was doing it for a party political reason, despite the fact

:23:39.:23:42.

that at the last mayoral election, I and other Conservatives campaigned

:23:43.:23:45.

in favour of rail devolution. He was not honest with us then, and it's

:23:46.:23:49.

quite clear that when he calm to the House of Commons and said he was

:23:50.:23:53.

doing so for financial reasons, that was not the truth. I think a

:23:54.:23:56.

minister who has done that is not fit to hold office. Well, that is a

:23:57.:24:00.

dramatic indictment there of Chris Grayling. Not honest, he should go.

:24:01.:24:06.

You know complete conflict here It is quite some escalation from a good

:24:07.:24:10.

scoop frat Evening Standard finding this letter by lunch time, a

:24:11.:24:14.

Conservative MP, someone widely respected in this particular area,

:24:15.:24:16.

actually saying he should go. This is not going to be a good day for

:24:17.:24:20.

Chris Grayling. I think at the moment it seems unlikely he would

:24:21.:24:22.

resign over something lick this, but, you know... Who knows. Things

:24:23.:24:28.

moves fast these days. I'm going to ask you go to but very politely. OK.

:24:29.:24:30.

Thank you. Now, the Liberal Democrats have been

:24:31.:24:35.

fined by the Electoral Commission after an investigation

:24:36.:24:37.

into the party's spending return The ?20,000 penalty is the largest

:24:38.:24:39.

that can be imposed for a single offence and the Commission is now

:24:40.:24:43.

repeating its call for an increase to the maximum fine,

:24:44.:24:46.

so it's more proportionate to the levels of spending

:24:47.:24:48.

and donations being handled In the case of the ?20,000 fine,

:24:49.:24:50.

the Commission concluded that the Lib Dems' 2015 election

:24:51.:24:54.

spending return was not complete The investigation found that

:24:55.:25:07.

307 payments totalling ?184,676 were missing

:25:08.:25:09.

from the Liberal Democrats' spending return -

:25:10.:25:11.

without a reasonable excuse. Some invoices for payments

:25:12.:25:15.

were also absent. The Commission has now notified

:25:16.:25:20.

the Metropolitan Police of a possible criminal offence,

:25:21.:25:22.

after seeing evidence that suggested some people in the party knew

:25:23.:25:24.

the spending return wasn't complete We asked the Lib Dems

:25:25.:25:27.

for an interview but were told In a statement a party spokesperson

:25:28.:25:31.

said: "These mistakes, caused by issues with a small number

:25:32.:25:35.

of local accounting units, were a result of human error

:25:36.:25:38.

and failures of process." We can now speak to

:25:39.:25:40.

the Chief Executive of the Electoral Commission,

:25:41.:25:45.

Claire Bassett. Do you accept that from the Liberal

:25:46.:25:53.

Democrats, as an explanation? I think what we have to be clear about

:25:54.:25:58.

is the law sets out very clearly what is needed, what should be in

:25:59.:26:02.

the spending returns, which are a really important part of giving

:26:03.:26:05.

voters confidence in our democratic processes. These laws have been

:26:06.:26:09.

around for sometime, 15 years, and the Liberal Democrats are an

:26:10.:26:12.

established party. So they did know what they needed to do. We were

:26:13.:26:15.

pleased they cooperated with us, during the course of the

:26:16.:26:18.

investigation and they have offered that explanation, but we are clear

:26:19.:26:22.

that the spending returns should be complete and should coincide with

:26:23.:26:25.

the law, setting out all of the spend that should be in them. It is

:26:26.:26:29.

not just the Liberal Democrats who have seen the maximum fine imposed

:26:30.:26:32.

on they. Labour were fined ?20,000 for a similar offence in oak. The

:26:33.:26:36.

Electoral Commission's investigation into the Conservative spend at the

:26:37.:26:40.

2015 general election are still ongoing, so, do you see a systemic

:26:41.:26:45.

problem here? What we are seeing is what we have seen in the two

:26:46.:26:49.

investigations we have concluded, where there were short-comings in

:26:50.:26:52.

those spending returns, those spending returns are an important

:26:53.:26:56.

part of being clear about what happens at elections. What we are

:26:57.:26:59.

calling for today is an increase in our ability to fine people who break

:27:00.:27:04.

those rules, because we feel that the ?20,000 fine is just

:27:05.:27:06.

disproportionately small to the amount of spend that we are talking

:27:07.:27:10.

about at general lings. Indeed t could be seen as a cost of business

:27:11.:27:15.

and we think it should be higher and bigger, so it acts as a proper

:27:16.:27:19.

deterrent and ensures people do return those complete... As you say,

:27:20.:27:22.

people might or the parties might feel it is a price worth paying.

:27:23.:27:26.

What sort of level of sanction would you suggest as a proper deterrent We

:27:27.:27:30.

are seeking today to really open the debate to have a look at how much

:27:31.:27:34.

that should be increased by. If you look at other regulators, the

:27:35.:27:37.

Information Commissioner, for example, can issue fines in the

:27:38.:27:40.

hundreds of thousands. So, we loo like Parliament to revisited and

:27:41.:27:44.

have a look at this and increase it significantly, but we haven't set a

:27:45.:27:47.

top level for that because we don't feel it is for us to do. Thank you

:27:48.:27:52.

very much. It sounds like all the parties are at this. The viewers

:27:53.:27:56.

will think how disgraceful I make thep poupt is the Conservative

:27:57.:27:58.

Party's position is we have followed the rules. You are being

:27:59.:28:02.

investigated. The investigation is ongoing but we have to look at this

:28:03.:28:06.

in the context of not just the report but people have looked at

:28:07.:28:08.

this issue and the Government will respond. Right, we need to leave it

:28:09.:28:12.

there, the guests will be happy to hear, floss time for the spelling

:28:13.:28:16.

item today. Which is a pity. Just time to put you out of your misery

:28:17.:28:20.

gaven you the answer to Guest the Year. The year was 1979 of the

:28:21.:28:25.

election and the Winter of Discontent. Press that red button,

:28:26.:28:31.

please. There we go, very gently. Nothing malign happens.

:28:32.:28:36.

And Andrew Miller from Lancashire. I can spell that, too. Has won. Well

:28:37.:28:42.

done, Andrew Miller from Lancashire. You get a daily Politics' mug. The

:28:43.:28:47.

1.00 news is starting on BBC One. We will be back tomorrow at noon with

:28:48.:28:51.

another edition of the Daily Politics, here on BBC Two. I hope

:28:52.:28:54.

you can join us. Until then, goodbye.

:28:55.:29:01.

I'm starting this new job, I'm taking over a really tough school.

:29:02.:29:05.

Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil introduce live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions, where David Lidington stands in for Theresa May and Emily Thornberry speaks for the Opposition.

Jo and Andrew are joined by Home Office minister Brandon Lewis and shadow Brexit minister Jenny Chapman as MPs vote for the first time on a timetable for Brexit.


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