Browse content similar to 19/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon folks and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:48. | |
Theresa May tells world leaders and global business chiefs | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
that Britain will still be "open for business" after Brexit and says | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
global elites must do more to respond to the anxieties | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
Is the EU out to administer a "punishment beating" to the UK | :00:56. | :01:04. | |
We speak to a leading German member of the European Parliament. | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
We may be living in an age of political insurgency. | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
But, if you're taking on the establishment, | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
But did we get some early hints about his political ambitions? | :01:13. | :01:23. | |
Eventually I think we'll get the right person and when we do, it'll | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
all straighten out. I wonder who he had in mind back | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
then? And with me for the whole | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
of the programme today, our very own little insurgent - | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
Ukip's one and only Now it's been almost 48 | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
hours since Theresa May gave her big speech on Brexit, | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
so it's probably time The Prime Minister has been | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
addressing global political and business bigwigs gathering | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
for the World Economic Forum She's been keen to reassure them | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
that Britain will remain very much open for business | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
after we leave the EU. Our decision to leave | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
the European Union was no rejection of our friends in Europe, | :02:05. | :02:13. | |
with whom we share common interest So, at the heart of the plan I set | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
out earlier this week, is a determination to pursue a bold | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
and ambitious free trade agreement between the UK | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
and the European Union. But more than that, we seek | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
the freedom to strike new trade deals with old friends | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
and new allies, right The kind of audience there is at | :02:40. | :02:53. | |
Davos, it must have been a binary speech. On the one hand she's the | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
leader of Brexit, which they hate, on the other hand, she is a huge | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
supporter of globalisation and world trade, which is under threat, and | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
they love. Well, I hope, listening to her speech, they might be | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
rethinking some of their cliched group think. You know, that, that's | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
the second great speech we've heard from Theresa May in three days. I | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
think if I was asked to contribute to what she was saying, I woonted | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
have changed a word. I think she's Bang on the Money. -- I wouldn't | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
have changed a word. What are the chances of rethinking, we've had | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
some of the pressures up. We've heard HSBC talking about "perhaps" | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
which is the key word, of Retallick locating staff to Paris. And US | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
Goldman Sachs talking about 1,000 from London to Frankfurt. How | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
seriously to the take the threats? When I was working for a FTSE 100 | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
fund manager in the when we decided not to join the euro, we heard the | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
same claims made and actually far from jobs being lost to London, | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
since then London has consolidated its position. So you don't take it | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
seriously? I - we heard a lot of these claims made in the run-up to | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
the referendum. It may than there are some businesses who feel they | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
are better off moving to Paris or Frankfurt but we heard this 20 years | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
ago when we decided not to join the euro. What will decide whether or | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
not the City and rest of the UK prospers, is whether or not, having | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
left the European Union, we make good on this vision of a liberal | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
Brexit, opening ourselves up to the world and not just the eurozone. If | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
we do that, we will prosper enormously. Did you do that do you | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
think they'll stay? I think so. What about Toyota? It employs 3,000 | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
people in Britain? A lot of the people employed by corporate | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
lobbyists in the run-up to the referendum were dead against Brexit. | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
They haven't got over it but the actual business men and women, who | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
make the decisionses, I think will come to term with the change, | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
recognise liberal breaks sit good business and we'll see them chaging | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
their tune. But it was the Chairman of HSBC, not the corporate lobbyist, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
that said, "We will move in about two years' time when Brexit | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
becomes... ." It is in about two years' now rather than immediately | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
after. Are you sceptical of the claims? I am but they know their | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
better than I do. Let's wait and see, I suspect in 10, 15 years' | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
time, the City of London will be more of a global financial hub than | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
it is today. What do you make of this claim, the Maltese Prime | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
Minister, I think he is part now of the - he is in the EU ro Tait | :05:40. | :05:47. | |
presidency seat for the first six months of the year and repeats this | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
demand or idea that Britain would have to pay a 60 billion euro exit | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
price. I mean t would seem to me - I don't know what really that is based | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
on, or whether it has any real basis but whether it has any basis or not, | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
I would suggest to you in a no British Prime Minister could ever | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
agree to that? Of course, it is a businessless claim. But what we need | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
to avoid doing is getting involved in a war of words between some of | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
the more excitable eurocrats. He is the Prime Minister. He is head of | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
the rotating presidency. Some of the people, they are talking about their | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
tax and bonuses and empire of official dom who'll resent us from | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
leaving. We won't rise to the debate. We are good neighbours and | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
Theresa May's speech was generous, making clear we want to be good | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
neighbours. That wasn't something we said during the referendum campaign. | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
A country outside the European Union, we want to cooperate. It may | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
not be 60 billion, unlikely to be anywhere near, that but will there | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
not be some price to pay as we exit? Clearly we want it leave on good | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
terms and we want to honour any commitments we have under | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
international law but we're not about to pick up a huge bill to, you | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
know, help some of the anti-Brexiteers in the European | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
system come to terms with their grief. We are going to leave in a | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
couple of years' time and, you know, we promise not to pursue a claim for | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
our share of buildings and other things that our money has funded, in | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
return for a good, fair, reasonable settlement. We want this to work for | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
both sides. We don't want it to be a bitter divorce. You have said twice | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
in the past couple of minute, how much you liked both of Mrs May's | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
speeches, so you are generally happy with the direction that she's going | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
in now? I'm absolutely delighted. I have been pushing all my adult life | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
to have a Government, a Prime Minister, committed to this agenda, | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
I really feel quite emotional about t actually. I think it is wonderful. | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
It is likely - we are waiting on the Supreme Court, I think it is 24th | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
January. Next Tuesday. Next Tuesday, it is going to rule. There is an be | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
a assumption, we don't know, but in the media and politics, we seem to | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
be operating on the asuchings that the Supreme Court will uphold the | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
challenge. Are there any parliamentary dangers for the | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Article 50 process if we have to do what the Supreme Court says, and it | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
has to go through the parliamentary procedure? I don't think - if the | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
court rules that it is exclusively for Parliament to make any decision, | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
I don't see a danger. A worst case scenario, if you find a Parliament | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
that resists the referendum, you simply call a new election and make | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
sure you have a Parliament that agrees with the verdict of the | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
people. I think the danger comes from the judges get it into their | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
heads that it is someone other than Parliament that must make this | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
decision. For example, if they give the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
Parliament or any other third party de facto veto powers, that I think | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
would trigger a constitutional crisis, but it is for Parliament to | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
decide. Even if the House of Lords decided to throw a woby, you could | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
call an election reand replace them. So you think it is possible in the | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
Lords do in some way try to block this or delay it, that could provoke | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
an election, too? I do, absolutely. You know, if we could leave the | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
European Union and make sure that those who make our laws in | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
Parliament live under the lawyer, that would be the icing on the cake, | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
wouldn't it? What about Ukip? Will Paul Nuttal will fighting the | :09:32. | :09:33. | |
by-election himself? We'll have a hustings tomorrow. I genuinely don't | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
know. We'll make the announcement on Saturday. Paul would be a superb | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
candidate. This is not about Ukip, fws Stoke. Stoke has had a Labour MP | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
from 1950, it deserves something better than that. Would he be your | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
choice? I think he would be superb but we're a Democratic Party and I'm | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
not registered to vote in that hustings. I will be supporting | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
whoever but Paul will be a superb candidate. He really would be a | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
force for Stoke. All right. We shall see. | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
European leaders have continued to respond | :10:07. | :10:07. | |
Yesterday, the President of the European Commission, | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Jean Claude Juncker, struck a conciliatory tone, | :10:12. | :10:12. | |
saying he wanted a "fair deal" without any "hostility". | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
However, the Maltese Prime Minister, Joseph Muscat, said the deal should | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
It came as Boris Johnson, on a trip to India, took aim | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
at the French President, warning him not to hit | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
the UK with "punishment beatings, in the manner of some | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
You can always depend on Boris Johnson. | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
Joining us now from the European Parliament in Strasbourg | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
is the MEP Manfred Weber, the Chairman of the centre-right EPP | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
grouping in the European Parliament. | :10:49. | :10:49. | |
Welcome to the programme, Mr Weber. Are you so worried that others might | :10:50. | :10:57. | |
want to leave the European Union that you need to be seen to give | :10:58. | :11:07. | |
Britain a really bad deal? ? After the Brexit, we experienced that | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
Europeans via the polls that people are signalling that they understand | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
that how important European Union is. ... They believe in the European | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
Union. That's why I have no problem with this. They are ready for a fair | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
deal. The European Parliament is a Parliament of content. They are | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
ready for a fair deal but we have to discuss what fair means. You don't | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
think that the European mainstream political establishment, of which | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
you are a distinguished member, faces troubles when Wilder is ahead | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
in the polls in Holland and Marine Le Pen could come first in the first | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
round of the French elections. You don't think these are problems for | :11:52. | :11:53. | |
people like you? Absolutely. They are problems for all of us, I would | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
say because when they are winning, who want to destroy our partnership | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
approach. For example, to have a good straight deal, Marine Le Pen | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
makes a campaign against the single market because in frances the | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
biggest problem is the unemployment rate. So everybody has its problem. | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
The question is how can we solve them? Is it better to split up the | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
European Union and Member States or work together? That's the approach | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
behind and frankly speaking when I hear the words from Boris Johnson, | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
that is exactly what I mean, to provoke each other, to say to each | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
other that we don't like each other and so on, that is not the way how | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
we should work and Boris Johnson is behaving like a clown and is taking | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
away the credibility of the government. Well, Boris onson is not | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
hear to defend himself. ! Let's try to come back to the substance. When | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
you look at what is happening in Holland n France, the ongoing | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
Italian political and financial crisis, Mrs Merkel facing a very | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
tough collection coming up in September. Have you learned nothing | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
from the Brexit vote? Well, I have learned a lot from the Brexit vote. | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
For example, that nobody explained to the British people what Europe is | :13:10. | :13:18. | |
all B for example, when you talk about trade, Theresa May made clear | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
statements on trade. So what is EU? EU is the single market. The free | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
trade zone. That is for the whole of the European Union much that's what | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
the Brits wanted. It was the idea of Europe. Now you say you want to | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
leave the European Union. I respect the outcome of Europe, but on the | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
other hand you say you want a free trade agreement. So leads to the | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
situation that nothing will change. Do you want to leave or not leave | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
the single market. Mr Weber there are many countries who have free | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
trade agreements with the EU, the most recent Canada, which are not | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
members of the single market. Absolutely. So why can't Britain? | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
And they will never get Canada, the others will never get the same | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
status like EU members have inside of the European Union, of this this | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
free trade zone, created during the last decade, so much positive | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
development for all of us, for Britain, Germany all of us and that | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
is what some want to destroy now. I fight for t others can destroy it. | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
It is a normal democratic process. I'm elected and Boris Johnson is | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
elected. If it is so positive, why has there been mass youth | :14:33. | :14:34. | |
unemployment in the eurozone and it is only this year or the end of last | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
year that the European Union managed in GDP terms, to get back to the | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
size it was in 2008. Why is that so positive? Britain is 15% bigger than | :14:45. | :14:54. | |
2008, America, 20% bigger Fair question ache ask, why has Spain and | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
Ireland got rise rates. And Germany with a stable development Because | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
they slashed wages. In Spain they slashed wages by 20% and there is | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
still 40% youth unemployment in Spain. Is there a chance of an | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
answer or no chance? I want to answer your question. You want it | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
interview me and that is the background of our meeting, yeah, | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
that's why I want to give you a rection a. The question is the | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
growth. The most important question about | :15:24. | :15:35. | |
social welfare, all of these questions are national | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
responsibilities. Don't come with the question that Europe is | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
responsible for everything. That is the easy question. That Brussels is | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
always responsible. That is not true. Others have tasks to do. | :15:47. | :15:59. | |
Please be fair. I'm still not clear what the lesson you have learned | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
from the Brexit vote is, apart from business as usual. You just want to | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
repeat the same arguments and behave in the same way. Given all of the | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
political challenges that Europe faces this year, are you not | :16:13. | :16:22. | |
changing your behaviour in any way? No national politician has convinced | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
people why Europe is important. I will give you another example when | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
you talk about trade. I still think the Single Market is a good thing. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
And another example is the fight against terror. I think we need the | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
European Union. That is why we work in the European Parliament on a | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
jihadist list, our intelligence forces are strongly working | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
together. That is the idea of Europe. It is about practical | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
things. I learned with my meeting with David Davies that Britain wants | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
to stay in this unity of exchange of data that is part of Europe. That's | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
why I have no idea what Brexit means for the moment. You want to leave, | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
but I learn that you want to stay in the Single Market, the fair trade | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
agreement, the question of exchange between universities on research in | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
Europe. Oxford and others want to stay. What are you leaving? What do | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
you want to do? Don't talk about Europe and bureaucracy and Brussels. | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
I'm in favour of this partnership approach. What do you say to the | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
Finance Minister of Italy, who has said the problem with Europe is | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
Europe, that people don't have faith in Europe any more? And he has to | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
think about himself because he is a politician who once Europe. He is | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
dealing with the Euro. Let's face the reality. The reality is we have | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
a global problem on the table. We see how big are member states are. | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
The nations in the European Union are competitive. We have to face the | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
reality that one single member state of this European Union alone cannot | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
compete with China and others. That is the reality. You can think in | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
another direction, but I think it is better to combine our forces and | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
fight for a common interests, both the social model of Europe, for | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
example, which is unique globally, to fight for these common values | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
together. That is what I believe in, that is what I will fight for. I am | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
a Democrat. If you are a Democrat, you no doubt you respect the result | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
on June 24. It affects EU citizens living in Britain, of which there | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
are about 3 million with their families. And EU citizens living in | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
the EU. Why not take them off the table now? Why not say that any EU | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
citizen in the UK has guaranteed rights indefinitely, and any UK | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
citizen living in the EU -- EU has guaranteed rights indefinitely? Why | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
not do that now? That as a starting point already. Mrs Merkel has turned | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
that down. At the moment nobody wants to start negotiations. The | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
point I am putting it to you is that when Mrs May made the offer to the | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
German chancellor, she turned it down. Why make these people part of | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
the negotiations? Please don't be surprised when Angela Merkel and | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
other leaders in Europe will say, first of all, please, London, give | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
us a triggering of Article 50. For the moment we only have speeches. We | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
have declarations. Formerly there is nothing on the table. That is why it | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
is completely fair when I asked London, please put formerly your | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
questions on the table. Then we can start the negotiation. If we agree | :20:06. | :20:16. | |
on the principle that we are not punishing Britain for leaving the | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
European Union, then on the other hand I would also ask, don't make | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
pressure on the rest of the European Union in saying you want to deliver | :20:24. | :20:32. | |
another economic model. I merely asked about EU citizens. But you | :20:33. | :20:41. | |
seem not to want to do anything at the moment. I clarified this. I'm | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
totally ready to respect the current situation and respect the citizens. | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
I only wanted to ask if we are not creating any additional aggression. | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
Save this pleased to Johnson, when you see him next time. I will talk | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
to my friends to reduce the pressure. We're ready to negotiate. | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
But leaving the European Union means leaving the European Union. We got | :21:09. | :21:20. | |
that, Mr Webber. I do many things in this world, Mr Webber, but taking | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
messages to Boris Johnson is not one of them. Thank you. | :21:25. | :21:25. | |
Now as we've been hearing, Theresa May has been addressing | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
the World Economic Forum in Davos this morning. | :21:29. | :21:30. | |
It's an annual gathering in Switzerland, where political | :21:31. | :21:32. | |
and business leaders discuss global issues. | :21:33. | :21:33. | |
But what is this exclusive event, and which masters and mistresses | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
of the universe are attending this year? | :21:37. | :21:47. | |
The Forum - as it is known - takes place every year in the alpine | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
The event was founded in 1971 by the German | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
Its stated mission? To improve the state of the world. | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
The theme of this year's event is Responsive | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
More than 2,500 politicians, business leaders and heads of state | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
from almost 100 countries are attending Davos. | :22:12. | :22:13. | |
But if you're hoping to attend next year, | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
Speakers at this year's Forum include US Vice President Joe Biden, | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
Chinese Premier Xi Jingping, and the Head of the International | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
David Cameron and George Osborne are also making speeches | :22:27. | :22:39. | |
But with the cost of attending the annual Davos shindig running | :22:40. | :22:52. | |
into tens of thousands of pounds, some have criticised the event | :22:53. | :22:54. | |
as a glorified party for the global elite. | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
Joining us from Davos to discuss this further is Jennifer Blanke. | :23:03. | :23:04. | |
She's the Chief Economist for the World Economic Forum. | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
Thank you for joining us. Can I just ask you one question. After the | :23:12. | :23:22. | |
speech by the Chinese president to Davos this year, China daily says | :23:23. | :23:31. | |
President G has become the general secretary of globalisation. Are you | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
comfortable with that? Well look, I think that everybody is looking how | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
to make globalisation work well. There has been a love of | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
disgruntlement in recent years about how the opening in various ways has | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
affected people. And I think that the fact that the Chinese government | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
wants to take a serious stand on some issues, and when you talk about | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
globalisation it is also about how we deal with things like climate | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
change, and I do believe that the Chinese economy is one of the most | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
important, the second most important, soon-to-be first, in the | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
world. It is important they take a strong stand on some of these | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
issues. Do I feel comfortable? It has to be a coordinated effort. We | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
need leaders of important countries taking stands. China joined the WTO | :24:21. | :24:30. | |
in 2001 and has put in face -- place market access foreign companies. Did | :24:31. | :24:40. | |
anybody raise that with him in Davos? I think if you think about | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
globalisation there are many things that combine to make a globalised | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
world. If you look at China, why is China pro-globalisation? Because the | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
country stagnated for decades until 1979. Did anybody raise these points | :24:55. | :25:05. | |
with him? I don't know if anybody raised that with him directly. I was | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
not in the room with him. However, clear these kind of things are dealt | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
with at the WTO. There is a mechanism. We are mapping out the | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
future here, not looking at the past. He was the Chinese leader | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
championing globalisation and free trade at Davos, and yet is presiding | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
over a ruthless crackdown on dissidents in China itself. The | :25:28. | :25:36. | |
trend, according to human rights watch, is decidedly negative. There | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
has in a crackdown on human rights lawyers. Did anybody in Davos raise | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
that with him? I don't think what we do is raise issues directly with | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
foreign leaders. We raise discussion points among many people about | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
issues that need to be raised. Human rights is very high on the agenda. | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
The question of democracy is very high on the agenda. Not if you | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
didn't raise it with him. That is not the point of Davos. It is not a | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
one-on-one between us and foreign leaders. It is about bringing | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
together business, government, civil society and academia to map out a | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
future. We can talk about human rights issues all we want. There are | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
many issues of human rights around the world. It didn't sound like you | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
talked about it at all. We definitely talked about it a lot. I | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
think we can forgive the fact that these corporate kleptocratic | :26:36. | :26:43. | |
get-together. We can forget they trade cliches as easily as they | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
traded business cards. But we can't forget that Davos creates groupthink | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
and it allows so-called leaders to marinade themselves in this bogus | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
sense of reassurance. They don't see the dangers of their wrong policies. | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
In 2006, shortly before the sub-prime crisis, they completely | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
failed to see the sub-prime crisis coming. Shortly before Lehman | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
Brothers went bust, the founder of the world economic Forum said the | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
mood from Davos was optimistic. What do you say to that? That it is | :27:21. | :27:29. | |
almost a self-deluding groupthink? I don't think it is a self-deluding | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
groupthink. Maybe two thirds of the people in Davos are from business | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
and government. The other third come from civil society. They come from | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
social entrepreneurs and academia. I agree there is a discussion about | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
whether we have missed out on something. Certainly the rise of | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
inequality is of great concern. I focus most of my time thinking about | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
how the process can work differently. It is easy to complain | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
about the situation from outside. It is harder to map out what we are | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
going to do going forward. We have leaders in Davos. But the people who | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
make decisions are the leaders. Therefore it's very important that | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
we sit here together. We came out with the report a few days ago. We | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
talked about the fact that growth is not enough. It is very important for | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
the process of growth to be inclusive. This resonates very well | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
with what Theresa May talked about today. This is something that is | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
high on the agenda. It may be high on the agenda but you have been | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
going since 1971. What has Davos done about low wages, growing | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
inequality? First of all it is not just growing inequality. We are | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
contributing to a better understanding of what has to happen. | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
Clearly the growth model that we had used in recent years is no longer | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
functioning. But what have you done? We have convened discussion leaders. | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
We have a global challenge initiative on the issue of inclusive | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
growth, where we bring together leaders, figuring out how it is we | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
can work together to change systems. Discussion is the first step. That | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
is one thing we have done. If you look at other areas we have worked | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
on, for example, rainforests, we are working on both trying to protect | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
the devastation of rainforests while increasing the productivity of | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
agriculture at the same time. Dealing again with the inclusiveness | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
of the growth process of those people who live in rainforests. I | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
asked about low wages and inequality. Another example is that | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
many of our big companies in a project they did together all | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
committed to hiring a large number of young people into internship | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
programmes. This started a few years ago. We have already touched many | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
thousands of young people, which is a big problem in Europe in | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
particular. There are commitments we follow through on. In 1971, the kind | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
of people at Davos and about 40 times the average wage of the people | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
who work for them. Today it's closer to 160 or 170 times. That's the | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
inequality. A lot of people will think Davos is part of the problem, | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
the people there are part of the problem? They pay themselves so | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
much, they pay their workers in real terms less and less. They are the | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
problem, not the solution. I don't think tts only inequality | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
problem in the world. The fact is that labour has not seen an increase | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
in wages. That's true. We came up the idea of a social context | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
yesterday where business leaders are committing to, you know, take | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
efforts to avoid this sort of inequality. But it is not just about | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
what CEOs earn and what the rest of the populous earns. What I'm much | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
more worried about is the fact that medium incomes has not gone up. The | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
middle class is not seeing improvement and this is' where we | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
are focussing and at the same time let's keep in mind poverty has | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
dropped massively in recent years, and this has a lot to do with a | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
well-regulated market-based economy. All right, let me bring Douglas | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
Carswell back N The The sort of corporate cleptocratss. That means | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
thieves. Well #24er what war web jp Haasings and the East India Company | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
used to be. The value of the shares lost 30% of its value, 30% of money | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
and yet executives running businesses awarded themselves 80% | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
pay increases. Corporate governance has broken down, we have capitalism | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
without capitalists. A final question, to you, Jenny. With the | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
election of Mr Trump, with the Brexit vote, with the rise of | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
political insurgents across Europe, this year and many elections, is | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
Davos past its peak, not just out of touch, it is over, really. A were | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
professor from Harvard once said - the conventional wisdom of Davos is | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
always wrong, that you are wrong so often that you are now in decline? | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
Well, if I go back it something you said before, about the sub-prime | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
crisis, I don't think anybody saw it coming. In terms of whether Davos is | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
fit for purpose, we've reinvented ourselves year after year to I can | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
at that on key issue that is really important on the global agenda. So, | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
do I think we are pass say, no? . Particularly because I think we are | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
constantly bringing new voices in, young voices from around the world | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
and I very much home because there is no other framework for | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
public-private discussion like we have, we will be fit for purpose in | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
the future. Thank you for joining us. We'll let you get back to the | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
proceedings. Representatives of the devolved | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
administrations have been meeting UK government ministers in Westminster | :32:55. | :32:56. | |
this morning, to talk about - Theresa May said in her | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
speech that she wanted the governments of Scotland, | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland to be But the SNP have said this week | :33:04. | :33:05. | |
that the UK government's policy to leave the single market makes | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
a second independence Mike Russell, the Scottish | :33:09. | :33:10. | |
government's spokesman on Brexit, spoke to the BBC on his | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
way into the meeting. We were meant to be | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
involved in decisions, I think there will be a general view | :33:19. | :33:20. | |
that that breached the process What do you expect to come | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
out of this meeting? Well, I'm hopeful we'll take forward | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
the options in the paper that we've submitted, | :33:31. | :33:32. | |
and particularly the options of Scotland remaining a member | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
of the single market, They have been well-supported | :33:35. | :33:36. | |
across the board and I'll be We take the Scottish Government's | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
proposal seriously. We'll have a discussion | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
about them today. We're going to be involved over | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
a period of time in these discussions and I'm meeting | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
Mr Russell again next So let's see what he has to say | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
at today's presentation. I've said I'm open-minded | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
on a whole range of issues but the Scottish Government has | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
to come forward with an evidence Joining me now is Joanna Cherry, | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
the SNP's Westminster spokesperson Welcome to the programme. Mike | :34:02. | :34:17. | |
Russell who we just heard there, says, implied that the EU single | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
market is more important than the UK single market. Why is that? Well, I | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
think they are both more important to Scotland. It's a little-known | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
fact this, but England, Scotland is actually England's biggest export | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
destination. So, our aim is to remain part of the EU single market, | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
and the UK single market. Why would the EU single market, as Mr Mr | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
Russell's mind, be more important than the UK single market? I think | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
what Mike is getting at is the fact that for us at the moment the growth | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
market is the EU. Scotland's exports to the EU are growing. How much do | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
they send to the EU? I cannot give the precise igs F I can, ?12 | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
billion. Just under, 11.6. How much do you export to the rest of the UK? | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
Last year we expected about ?46 billion and the rest of the UK | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
exported into Scotland about ?52 billion. You will see Scotland is | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
actually a bigger export market for the rest of the UK. What's important | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
about that. No, hold on. You just admitted, the actual figure last | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
year was ?48.5 billion. I'm taking the most recent. Well the most | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
recent ones are coming out today, this week, I have not seen them. | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
?48.5 million to the rest of the UK, verses ?12 billion to the rest of | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
the EU. Your exports to the rest of the UK are four times your exports | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
to the EU. In what way account EU single market be more important than | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
the UK single market? It is our growth market. It is four timing | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
bigger the UK You are pos itting this question to me as though we had | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
to make a choice between the UK and EU single market. David Davis went | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
to Ireland and spoke to businessmen and women in Dublin and he said that | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
the Republic of Ireland will not need to choose after Brexit between | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
its commitment to the UK and its commitment to the EU. We believe | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
that if Scotland stays in the single market and the rest of the UK does | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
not, then Scotland will not and should not have to choose between | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
its commitment to the EU and the rest rest of the UK as trading | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
markets and my point in saying this to you, awe weren't far off on | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
figures I said ?4646 billion from Scotland to -- ?46 billion to | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
Scotland. My point is, that Scotland is Britain's biggest export mark it | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
would be a kamikaze action to create a hard border between Scotland and | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
England. We're not interested in that, we're interested in respecting | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
the wish of the Scottish people to remain in the EU. I heard you | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
talking about a veto earlier. We are not interested in that. We believe | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
that the wishes of the rest of the UK, England and Wales, not Northern | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
Ireland, to leave the EU, must be respected, in the same way that the | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
wish of the Scots to Remain should be the ared. That's why we've put | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
forward in compromise proposal that my colleague, Mike Russell is | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
current willy discussing in the joint ministerial committee. Now | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
that compromise, you will see, Andrew, you will know that we | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
suggested that the whole of the UK could remain in the single market. | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
That has been ruled out Theresa May ruled that out on Tuesday in her | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
speech. One might question her motives. It is ruled out. Our | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
fallback position was Scotland should remain in the single market. | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
The Spanish have said that's not going to happen Well, the Spanish | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
may have said it is not going to happen but the Spanish like the rest | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
of us are going into a negotiation. We heard Theresa May specifically | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
talk about the wishes of the Spanish fishermen to have access to the | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
fisheries around the UK, so people might state what their ideal | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
position is, in any negotiation, but there is room for give and take. | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
Well, the so Secretary of State for Europe in Spain. There is only one | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
negotiator, that's the UK Government - if the UK leaves the single | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
market, the whole of the UK leaves the single market. That's one voice | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
out of 27 others. You need all 27. It is a strong one. That is why I | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
and my colleagues have been travelling around the European | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
Union, since the Brexit vote speaking to other Member States. | :38:27. | :38:28. | |
Let's look at the Spanish situation in particular. On the fringes of | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
Spain we have Gibraltar. It is in a slightly an op louse position. It | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the European Union. Gibraltar is | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
in the EU but not the customs union. The Channel Islands are in the | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
customs union but not until the EU. There is existing scope and | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
precedent for differential arrangements. Now we are are in | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
completely unchartered territory. No member state has voted to leave the | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
EU. So it is unchartered. Equally the proposals which the Scottish | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
Government have put forward are unchartered Terry. Hold on a minute | :39:05. | :39:13. | |
your proposal, basically proposed the devolution of almost everything | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
to the Scottish Parliament -- immigration, separate business | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
regime. Corporation tax. Everything. It's basically a blueprint for | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
independence. The British Government is not going to agree to that. Well, | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
let's see what the British Government... You would need a hard | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
border if you had that. Your own immigration. No, David Davis has | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
told us when Britain leaves the European Union and the Republic of | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
Ireland remains a member there will be no hard border between the north | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
and South. The Republic of Ireland is not a member of shengin. You | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
would be a new member, that may be a price you have to pay It is a member | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
of the common travel area, which has been in existence before the | :39:55. | :39:56. | |
European Union and which Scotland has been a member of since way | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
before the European Union, so what we are looking for here, in our | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
compromised proposals is a compromise in the situation... It is | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
not a compromise, it is a demand for independence by the back door. It is | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
not, Andrew. Well, one of the people sitting on the council, Sir Charles | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
Grant who was involved in this process you went through, said that | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
these plans are not legally, politically or technically feasible. | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
Equally, David Edwards, my former tutor and distinguished former judge | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
at the European Court of Justice, who sits on the panel, has said that | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
the proposals should be looked at seriously. Now that's one of the | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
finest legal brains in Scotland. Let me bring in Douglas Carswell in. | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
Scotland didn't vote to leave the European Union. It's now having to | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
leave the European Union, and the single market. You can understand | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
why they are upset? Well, I suspect that some in the SNP would see any | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
event as a pretext to call for a second referendum. But, I think it's | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
important to remember that more people in Scotland voted to stay in | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
the UK, just over 2 million, than voted to remain in the EU. We made | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
the decision as a United Kingdom, on our EU membership, and, you know, my | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
side won that... They were promised if they voted... I'm sorry, there | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
was a referendum. I feel for you. It was promised to us in Scotland if we | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
voted to remain part of the UK, we will remain part of the EU. That | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
promise has broken. Circumstances have changed. Indeed it has, it was | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
a very important point. It was said the way to vote to stay in the EU | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
was to vote for Scotland to stay in the UK. A quick question for you. In | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
the current timetable Britain is scheduled to leave the EU in March | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
2019. Will there be a referendum on Scottish independence before then? | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
Whether or not there will be a referendum depends on the British | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
Government's suppose response to our proposals and that's what is under | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
discussion in the jount ministerial committee this morning. We do not | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
know. We do not know but if they ditch the proposals and dent look at | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
them seriously, it is likely there will be another independence | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
referendum. Before March 2019. The First Minister said it will not be | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
this year We'll see how the timetable unfolds thereafter. That | :42:17. | :42:23. | |
would only believe 2018 Now, we like to ask the big | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the world? | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
Our guest of the day, Douglas Carswell, says he's very | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
But, he argues, most mainstream politicians have a pessimistic view, | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
and that is bad news for us and for our society. | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
# You've got to accentuate the positive | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
When we think of politics, we often place politicians | :42:49. | :43:06. | |
and their policies on a spectrum between left and right but the real | :43:07. | :43:16. | |
divide in politics today isn't between left and right. | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
# Just when everything looked so dark...# | :43:19. | :43:30. | |
Do you, like me, believe that the world is looking up, | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
that the human condition, however imperfect, | :43:36. | :43:36. | |
Do you believe that modernity, particularly in its Western | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
form is a corruption of the human condition? | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
This difference in our attitude towards the past | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
Because if you believe we've come down, you invite people to impose | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
a blueprint as the solution and that's been the pretext of every | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
If, instead, you recognise that the world has been getting | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
better, you are half way to accepting the liberal idea | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
of a self-organising society, with no need for grand plans and no | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
Guess which way of looking at things most politicians prefer? | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
The one that puts them centre stage, obviously. | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
# You've got to spread joy (up to the maximum) | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
# Bring gloom (down to the minimum)...# | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
Liberals have lost sight of the idea of a self-organising society, | :44:31. | :44:32. | |
Which is why they side with those supernational | :44:33. | :44:42. | |
agencies, and organisations, who want to organisation | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
Too many self-styled progressives fail to appreciate quite how much | :44:46. | :44:55. | |
Living standards are at a record high. | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
Income and equality is lower today in Britain | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
Violent crime is almost half what it was in the 1990s | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
and my favourite, a moving car in Britain today emits less | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
pollution than a stationary one did in the 1970s. | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
No wonder progressive Liberalism is in such a funk. | :45:18. | :45:19. | |
Cheer up, the world really is getting better. | :45:20. | :45:28. | |
And to discuss this further we're joined by Guardian | :45:29. | :45:30. | |
Are you in a progressive funk? No, not at all! Is an odd day as Donald | :45:31. | :45:48. | |
Trump is getting inaugurated tomorrow. Douglas is a great | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
politician because he is a great -- freethinker in wild terms. He has | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
got his head in the clouds. He is a kind of right wing anarchist. You | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
believe in no government, self organising. Where does that get us? | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
I think I believe that what we do collectively together is better than | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
anything we do as individuals on our own. I look at how this government | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
has, in the last six years, dismantled huge part of government. | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
You look at the NHS beginning to fall apart, something we were | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
proudest of. Environmental health officers no longer really check on | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
most restaurants. Things that we expect as a fundamental part of | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
civilised society are being stripped away. Let's get a dialogue. Respond | :46:36. | :46:46. | |
to that? When I was growing up, the right always seemed to be the doom | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
mongers. They were represented by old buffers. The left were the | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
people who wanted to build the new Jerusalem. I can't help thinking | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
that the reason the left is in such an existential crisis is precisely | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
because it sees change and improvement as some sort of decline. | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
And I think Polly has illustrated that rather neatly. All of the | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
change and improvements, grow from the left. They have brought us the | :47:14. | :47:21. | |
things we must admire and value. What we do together as a society is | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
what makes civilisation. You are against planning. When the left | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
believed in an organised society, when they were truly liberal, they | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
achieved huge change in the 19th century. But the liberal left has | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
lost sight of the idea of humans as their own agents. It believes in | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
blueprints. Whether that is socialism, environmentalism... They | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
like to tell the rest of us what to do. You are one of the most | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
ideological people, in an interesting way, in the House of | :47:59. | :48:07. | |
Commons. You have a neoliberalism. We're not here to talk about your | :48:08. | :48:16. | |
iss! We are here to look at your proposition that Mike is proposition | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
that the left is in a funk because it is not going your way. Mr Trump | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
is about to be inaugurated. The government in this country may be as | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
bad as you say. It is also 17 points ahead in the polls. The French | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
Socialist party is about to be wiped out. The Greek Socialist party has | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
already been wiped out. That is why you are in a funk. I'm not in a funk | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
but it is true, the ride is winning everywhere. We are in an | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
extraordinary era. Who knows whether the right will sweep across Europe? | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
We have crucial elections this year in France and Germany. We will get a | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
better idea. I think it was so badly overreach itself that we will see | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
people returning to the idea... The fixation we have now where people | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
are used to choosing things for themselves is not going to be | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
regarded as credible, I'm a politician and I can fix your public | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
services. That model in the Netflix country we now live in is no longer | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
viable. Self commissioning. Self pain for the NHS. Can we not going | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
there for the moment? That is a wider discussion. Let me keep this | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
discussion on the basis of the commission, who is unhappy and who | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
isn't. You accused Polly's side of the argument of being gloomy, | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
negative, putting things down. Hasn't the rise of Ukip comic indeed | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
even the vote for Brexit, wasn't that partly the kind of | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
atmosphere... Things aren't what they used to be? If we had allowed | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
those people, and there are those -- people take that position, if we had | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
allowed those people to run the referendum campaign, we would have | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
lost 70-30. We offered the optimistic vision which we heard | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
again today from Theresa May. You want to take back control. You are | :50:24. | :50:31. | |
saying your -- no control, take all the controls of. You won on the idea | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
of tighter controls. It was an authoritarian message. Not yours but | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
the rest of your party. That's not what we said. If your scepticism had | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
been that pessimistic, gloomy force, we would have been wiped out in the | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
1980s. The fact that we won and build a new coalition... Let's not | :50:54. | :51:04. | |
fight the referendum again! They said they didn't turn out in enough | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
numbers for you to win. Mr Trump, does that put a smile on your face? | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
I think I would have voted for the governor of New Mexico, the one who | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
didn't know where Aleppo was, because he was the best of a bad | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
bunch. I am a libertarian. Does Mr Trump put a smile on your face? A | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
wouldn't have been my choice but America has voted for him. Let's see | :51:30. | :51:38. | |
what happens. Do you have two... If your side is losing the argument on | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
so many fronts at the moment, if in practice you are losing, do you have | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
to wait for the other side to get in, make a mess of it and then come | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
back? Are you waiting on that? It's never enough. One thing you said is | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
absolutely right. You only ever win with an optimistic vision. You only | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
ever win by saying you've got your new Jerusalem, I've got mine. My due | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
-- my new Jerusalem is better than yours. That is the way all politics | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
works. You have the fear of the dismantlement of the state on one | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
side. People are losing services. We are seeing schools losing huge | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
chunks of money per people as well as patients. I don't think people | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
want that. I think they want a vision of something better. Things | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
can only get better, as someone said. Things can only end, which is | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
what is happening to this discussion. | :52:40. | :52:39. | |
Now, there's little more than 24 hours until Donald Trump takes | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
the presidential oath of office and assumes his role as the most | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
As he takes on this awesome responsibility, journalists around | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
the world are competing to land that exclusive interview. | :52:50. | :52:51. | |
Well, one such reporter who has done just that is our | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
Yes, he is among that elite group of hacks to have been granted some | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
I know what you're thinking - this is a huge scoop | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
Did I mention this interview was in 2014? | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
Last week, Donald Trump revealed he uncharacteristicically said no | :53:13. | :53:20. | |
Over the weekend I was offered $2 billion to do a deal | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
in Dubai with a very, very, very amazing man, | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
a great, great developer from the Middle East, | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
Hussain, Damac, a friend of mine, great guy. | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
But back in 2014, before Donald Trump was too busy to decline | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
lucrative business opportunities in the United Arab Emirates, | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
thanks to a deal with that great guy, Hussain Ali Sajwani, | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
the CEC of Damac, the Trump family adorned billboards advertising | :53:55. | :53:56. | |
an 18-hole golf course at the heart of a huge real estate | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
development, billed as the Beverly Hills of Dubai. | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
Well, Donald Trump drew us here all here to look | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
at what he called his "vision" on an empty piece of land | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
As a BBC reporter out there two-and-a-half years ago, | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
I was invited to film and meet the man himself, | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
as he played to the cameras with a 30-second journey | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
fashion, at the Trump-branded multi-billion pound development. | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
When we sat down together, I was keen find out how much | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
the billionaire had personally invested in Dubai, after it had | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
bounced back from a devastating financial crash five years earlier. | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
I don't talk about how much I invest but I believe in Dubai | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
and it's certainly something I would be very happy to invest in. | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
Can you give us an indication of what you are dipping your toe in, | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
your arm, half your body, something like that? | :54:49. | :54:50. | |
Well, if you think about it, I have my name at stake also, | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
After inaugurating this hole on this half-finished golf course | :54:54. | :55:04. | |
in the middle of the desert, the impressively handicapped, | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
soon-to-be septugenarian was so proud of his shot, | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
he wanted the ball framed, so he asked his aide, Larry | :55:13. | :55:14. | |
to search through the surrounding sand and find it. | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
We should get that ball Larry, and frame it. | :55:19. | :55:28. | |
But after all this glitz and glamour, Donald Trump was served | :55:29. | :55:30. | |
up a curve ball by a reporter from Vice News at | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
He side-stepped allegations that workers on this development | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
So, I thought I'd try asking about it, but I, | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
I'm trying to give you a very open-ended question, | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
about workers' rights in this region, if there was something, | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
a stand you would take or a vision that you'd have? | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
I think he has been pretty clear on that. | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
Let me answer a couple and we'll be done with it. | :55:55. | :56:04. | |
Well, it's a big issue, I'm not making this up. | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
I mean, this is something that everyone would want to ask | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
the top businessman, like yourself, this has got | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
to do with real estate, it is about construction. | :56:17. | :56:18. | |
Well, just to put it in a very short form, | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
I always like to see everybody treated well and I'm sure that's | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
happening over in Dubai because the workers are so important | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
to what we are doing and what everybody else | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
is doing and I love to see people treated well. | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
But one person he didn't think was treating the American | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
people well, back in 2014, was President Barack Obama. | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
We have a lack of leadership at the top and the President has not | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
done a good job and a lot of people are agreeing, even his own people | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
are agreeing that it has not worked out well for President Obama. | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
Looking back, perhaps this was his first pitch for the job. | :56:54. | :56:55. | |
The good news is we have tremendous potential and with the right leader, | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
this country can turn around so quickly, it will be unbelievable. | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
Eventually we'll get the right person. | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
You don't want it to go too far down. | :57:08. | :57:09. | |
But, eventually I think we'll get the right person and when we do, | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
America's next President still talks about himself in the third person. | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
Perhaps, in front of our very eyes, two-and-a-half years ago, | :57:17. | :57:18. | |
Here is mark with Donald Trump at that interview. That is Ivanka Trump | :57:19. | :57:40. | |
with him. Mark is not doing the films of sign, unlike some reporters | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
who did. No names! Proper professionalism! Donald Trump once | :57:47. | :57:54. | |
massive unfunded tax cuts, huge infrastructure programme, all of | :57:55. | :57:56. | |
which will increase the deficit normally. -- enormously. None of | :57:57. | :58:06. | |
that is on your agenda? I fear he is shifting from monetary stimulus to | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
fiscal stimulus. I personally, if I were advising and I'm not, I would | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
say that is unwise. The American state should live within its means. | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
If it doesn't do that, it will go the way of all states that have | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
lived beyond their means. Congress, the beauty of the American system is | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
the separation of powers. Congress will have a say. I suspect his | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
biggest obstacle will be Republican appointed judges and the Senate. We | :58:34. | :58:35. | |
shall see. The One O'Clock News is starting | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
over on BBC One now. I will be on BBC One | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
with Michael Portillo, Jess Phillips, Quentin Letts, | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
Anthony Seldon and Polish politician Radoslaw | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
Sikorski from 11:45. And I'll be here at noon tomorrow, | :58:47. | :58:48. | |
with all the big political stories of the day. | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
Do join me then. Parents are facing an explosion in | :58:52. | :58:53. | |
the number of children saying | :58:54. | :59:06. |