20/01/2017 Daily Politics


20/01/2017

Andrew Neil is joined by playwright Bonnie Greer and Kate Andrews from Republicans Overseas to discuss the Inauguration. Plus the latest from the European Parliament.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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The world watches as Donald Trump prepares to be sworn is as the 45th

:00:41.:00:43.

Ahead of his inauguration, Mr Trump promises he will bring

:00:44.:00:48.

We'll look at Donald Trump's plans for his first days

:00:49.:00:57.

And we report from Melania Trump's home-town in Slovenia.

:00:58.:01:03.

Jeremy Corbyn is under pressure from Labour MPs

:01:04.:01:05.

to change tack on Brexit, with some urging the Labour

:01:06.:01:07.

leader to vote against triggering Article 50.

:01:08.:01:09.

And why is a Conservative-run county council planning to hike

:01:10.:01:16.

And with us for the next half an hour - Kate Andrews from

:01:17.:01:35.

the Institute of Economic Affairs, who is a Republican,

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So, the big day has arrived as President-elect Donald Trump

:01:38.:01:44.

prepares to be sworn in as the 45th President of the United

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Last night, Mr Trump and his wife Melania appeared on the steps

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of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington for an

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eve-of-inauguration rally and concert titled

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The Make America Great Again Welcome Celebration.

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It doesn't quite trip off the tongue, but there we are!

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Addressing cheering supporters, Donald Trump promised to bring

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And our phrase - you all know it, half of you are wearing the hat -

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But we're going to make America

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great for all of our people, everybody.

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That includes the inner cities, that includes everybody.

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Donald Trump. We will be hearing more from him. We will talk about

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the number of things, but give me your main thought on this historic

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day. President Obama is leaving with some of the highest approval ratings

:03:11.:03:13.

of any president leaving office, which comes down to the value we

:03:14.:03:17.

have put around personal integrity in a time where Clinton and Trump

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are running for the White House. Trump is coming in with some of the

:03:22.:03:25.

lowest approval ratings of any incoming president elect. There is

:03:26.:03:28.

no doubt that he has won and has upset politics as we know it, but he

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has a lot of work to do in building backtrack is -- building back trust.

:03:36.:03:43.

He needs to work on the Republicans before the Democrats. We all forget

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that the president has less power than the Prime Minister does in

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terms of making laws, so he has to play nice and get along with people.

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Bonnie, what is your main thought today, it wasn't the result you

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wanted? We have a constitution, a military code of justice, these

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laws, and this is not a man who seems to be interested in the rule

:04:07.:04:12.

of law. I have complete faith in the constitution being upheld, and that

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is where I go into this new period, with faith in our laws and faith in

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the laws of the founding fathers. I think all the people who oppose him,

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and even as Kate said, the centrist Republicans who are holding their

:04:27.:04:29.

nose and being a part of this, all have faith in the constitution.

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The question for today is: Who is headlining

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Is it a) Celine Dion, b) Country star Toby Keith,

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c) Elton John, or d) Charlotte Church?

:04:39.:04:41.

At the end of the show, Kate and Bonnie will give us

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Probably by a process of elimination!

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In a few hours, Donald Trump will go from property tycoon and TV host to

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the president of the richest and most powerful country on earth. It

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is just 7am in Washington. They are five hours behind on the east coast

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of the US, so I expect Mr Trump will probably be taking his cornflakes

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right now, if that's what he has a breakfast. Let's look at how he will

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spend his big day. Donald Trump's first engagement

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today is a church service at around 1.30 this afternoon,

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that's 8.30am in Washington. He's chosen to have a private

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service with his family in St John's Episcopal Church,

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opposite the White House. At 2.30 he'll head over the road

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for coffee with President Obama. This is something that always

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happens - the outgoing president and the incoming president elect meet.

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Then at about 3.30, both men will ride together to Capitol Hill

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for the Inauguration Ceremony, which will be watched by hundreds

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And the big moment will be at 5 o'clock, that's

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Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 45th President

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In the famous oath, he will swear to "preserve,

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protect and defend" the American Constitution.

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President Trump will then deliver his inaugural address.

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We're not expecting too much policy but his aides have promised a speech

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that will be personal, sincere and philosophical.

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After that, President Trump and Vice-President Pence will embark

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on one a half mile parade down Pennsylvania Avenue.

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They'll be lined by supporters along the route.

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Probably not protesters. Some may get through, but they are being kept

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away from the main ceremony itself. Then just before six, it's thought

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Donald Trump will sign his first As we have said, presidents have a

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lot of executive power which they don't need Congress to implement.

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Some may undo what Mr Obama has done with his executive orders. As I say,

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we don't quite know. We don't know what these will be,

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but Mr Trump has promised some "very Members of President's Trump's

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Cabinet will also be sworn in tonight, not least

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the new Defence Secretary General At midnight, that's 7pm

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in Washington, the traditional President Trump and First Lady

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Melania Trump will have their first dance and, according to reports,

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the music they've chosen Let's talk now to our Washington

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correspondent Nick Bryant, Nick, tell us more. It looks great

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behind you. The tabloid joke is, it's a new dawn

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in Washington, and a new dawn as well. -- and a new Don. He will

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swear the oath that will make him the 43rd president of the United

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States. The action begins down the road in Pennsylvania Avenue. He will

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come out of the guest house opposite the White House. The Queen has

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stayed there, no less. He will go to church, and then, because America

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sets great store in this transfer of power, he will meet the Obamas for

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coffee and a chat. What could be more civil? Then the improbable

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final leg of an extraordinary political journey will bring him to

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Capitol Hill, where he will give his inaugural address. It is said to be

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very philosophical. He has written it himself, he says, and we will be

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interested to hear what he says. We expect it to be thematic rather than

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programmatic. Not a laundry list of things to do but a broader vision of

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how he plans to make America great again, that great ringing slogan of

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this campaign. There are always people on

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inauguration day, not as many as when President Obama was first

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inaugurated in 2008, but still, hundreds of thousands of people, but

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still some protesters. My understanding is that the protesters

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will be kept quite a long way away from Pennsylvania Avenue, the hill

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where you are, and the White House where the President-elect will end

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up, is that right? Yeah, Washington has become this

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modern-day fortress. They have put a ring of steel around the area where

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800,000 people are expected to gather. About 1.9 million people

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came for Barack Obama. Lots of hotels still say they have vacant

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rooms, which is unusual for an inauguration. This is such a deeply

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divided country, and there are many people who love Donald Trump, who

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have been hoping that this day, and there are many people who hate him,

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quite frankly. Then, this is terrifying, and I think we will see

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that unfold today in the capital. The polarisation that has been such

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a feature of American politics for decades, but never more so than in

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the last year. Enjoy inauguration day. Back here in

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London, we're joined by Jacob Rees Mogg, the Conservative MP, who

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started off backing Donald Trump president, before dropping his

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support following the groping allegations made against Mr Trump in

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the later stages of the election, but is now back on site, at least we

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think he is. Are you? We have an American president, and it is in the

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interests of the British Government to get on with the American

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president, and it would be a bit wet of me not to support him. I will do

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lots of flip-flops. I wish Mr Trump extremely well. He is broadly on the

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same side of the political argument as the Conservative Party, but not

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exclusively. Are you encourage that for the first time ever, the White

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House will be occupied by a Eurosceptic? Is it the first time

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ever? What happens if you go back to some of the earlier presidents? I'm

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not sure. They were quite pro-Europe but anti-British. Some work, but not

:11:56.:12:03.

all. Let me narrow it down. In the postwar world, we have the first

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Eurosceptic American president - are you encouraged by that? It's not

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like you not to produce precise questions. It's not like you not to

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produce precise answers! He wants a trade deal with us, wants to be a

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friends of hours. His mother was devoted to the Queen, as all

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sensible mothers are. This is positive for the UK, and my concern

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is not domestic American politics, although of course I wish them well,

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but its effect on the UK. I hope that Mr Trump will be a better

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friend of the United Kingdom than Mr Obama was. What do you expect be

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president in the first days of his presidency? Some of the really big

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things he wants, like tax cuts, infrastructure spending, that will

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need the support of Congress. So that will take a while, but there

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are some things he can do by executive order. What would you like

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to see? What would mark out the beginning of his presidency? Tie-in

:13:11.:13:15.

with Jacob, in that in the medium to long term I am not apocalyptic about

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this. Some of the tax reforms will give America an economic boom, but

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in the 24 hours at first, my suspicion is he will roll back

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executive orders that Obama signed, specifically aimed at immigration.

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There is talk of him rolling back the dreamers act which would allow

:13:36.:13:40.

people who came with young children to get citizenship. The pledged to

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take 10,000 Syrian refugees. It will be for show and will be designed to

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appeal to his supporters. He wants to hang onto those wearing the make

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America great again hats. Those two pieces of legislation in particular,

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I would have loved to see them go to Congress. It was a mistake in the

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beginning for Obama to sign them as executive orders, but those are two

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good pieces of legislation. Of course, they weren't legislation,

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they were executive orders. In a sense, this may be a problem of Mr

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Obama's modus operandi, because a lot of what he did because Congress

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was a difficult was done by executive order, and that always

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runs the risk, and we may see it over the weekend, of the incoming

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president on doing what the outgoing one has done. As Kate said, it is

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his prerogative to issue these orders. As you say, the Congress was

:14:38.:14:41.

deadlocked pretty much against this president from the beginning. In

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fact, the leader of the House of Representatives stated in 2008 that

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his job was to make sure that President Obama got only one term.

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That didn't happen. He lost his majority quite quickly, so he had a

:14:56.:15:00.

situation where the is only tool was the executive order, which is not a

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way to govern. -- where his only tool. Do you think these executive

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of orders will be unravelled? He has to keep throwing red meat to his

:15:14.:15:17.

base because he has been elected by a base that doesn't trust

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Washington. It is an old American thing. He's got that base, and he

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has to keep throwing things out to them. Americans love their

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Congressmen and women but they never love Congress. It is said that his

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cabinet has the highest IQ of any American cabinet. He also said he

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was the greatest American ever put on God's.

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It was said this is the greatest gathering of brain power in the

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White House since Thomas Jefferson dined alone! Exactly.

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Are you comfortable with Donald Trump's plans for substantial

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unfunded tax cuts and massive infrastructure spending? I think

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that the unfunded tax cuts could be funded. The American tax system is

:16:15.:16:20.

complex, it is failing to raise funds, a form of Corporation Tax

:16:21.:16:26.

could raise money. As we have seen in the UK receipts from Corporation

:16:27.:16:31.

Tax has gone up. If you get the US companies to re-patriate funds from

:16:32.:16:36.

outof the United States, that could be beneficial to the fiscal side of

:16:37.:16:40.

the US. And as a visitor to the US it is

:16:41.:16:44.

noticeable how poor some of the roads are. You are surprised that

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the richest country in the world has weak infrastructure. So again it

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could be been fishally, economically, the evidence is that

:16:55.:16:58.

money spent on roads has a helpful economic effect. So this could be

:16:59.:17:02.

good. But there is nothing mystical about the problem with the American

:17:03.:17:06.

infrastructure, that goes down to the States at the end of the day.

:17:07.:17:12.

The Republican Party controls most. So you have a democratic President

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who has to work his or her way down the cycle.

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What we have seen over the Obama administration is the loss of the

:17:22.:17:27.

support for the Democratic Party, the voters detrade by the Democratic

:17:28.:17:32.

Party, especially with energy policies, we have seen the

:17:33.:17:35.

republicans taking back control and taking back the power at each level

:17:36.:17:39.

of government, I think because President Obama failed to lead and

:17:40.:17:42.

failed to offer a plan formidle America.

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Let me move on. We will come back. What we do know is Donald Trump's

:17:48.:17:52.

ability to surprise us. We don't really know what he might do in the

:17:53.:17:58.

next 36 hours. His journey to the White House is to say the least, an

:17:59.:18:02.

extraordinary one. Here is a brief look back from Donald Trump's

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transformation to businessman, to celebrity and to US President, and

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perhaps not surprisingly, there are flashing images.

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I actually asked him are you doing this on purpose to try to

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make it look bad, so I'd pay some more money?

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It is the worst pile of crap architecture I've

:18:37.:18:48.

# I feel so far removed...

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I've never said that I'm a perfect person, nor

:19:03.:19:04.

pretended to be someone that I'm not.

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Did you have your porridge,

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Donald Trump's extraordinary journey to the White House.

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In terms of being President, I, looking to someone who did American

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history and has continued to read lots about it, I can think of no

:19:42.:19:46.

President, no equivalent President in the past, that comes anywhere

:19:47.:19:50.

near Mr Trump, do you agree with that? Possibly, Teddy Roosevelt.

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Andrew Jackson. He had been a politicians before.

:19:59.:20:06.

I agree with you, broadly. To try to find similarity, teddy Roosevelt is

:20:07.:20:10.

the closest to somebody who is impulsive, follows a path he

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chooses. Not really a republican.

:20:14.:20:17.

And ends up being independent, creates his own war, does all sorts

:20:18.:20:21.

of things you don't expect Presidents to do.

:20:22.:20:25.

It is unchartered territory. But that make it is exciting. I

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think there is a feeling, not just in the US, and the UK, that we were

:20:30.:20:33.

absolutely fed up with professional politicians who go through the

:20:34.:20:37.

patter, reeling off the same answers, dining in the same clubs

:20:38.:20:40.

and this is something different. It may not work, you can't tell at the

:20:41.:20:45.

beginning but it's different and potentially exciting.

:20:46.:20:50.

Is there a little bit excited by the unknown, or are you just terrified!

:20:51.:20:56.

The part of me that is the playwright is excited, you cannot

:20:57.:21:00.

create this person. In fact, moo I last play that closed

:21:01.:21:06.

in October, had him elected President, and I was told to rewrite

:21:07.:21:11.

the script as he was not going to be elected.

:21:12.:21:16.

You could write part two! Now, he could be high on a golden age of

:21:17.:21:21.

satire and theatre but this man, I want to lay rest the middle America

:21:22.:21:26.

quickly. The middle America voted for Barack Obama and voted for him

:21:27.:21:32.

twice, so we have to look down into what's been happening... As to what

:21:33.:21:37.

happened. But not today. We don't have time. But brieflily as the

:21:38.:21:44.

republic here, you get the final word, Kate. You were not keen on

:21:45.:21:48.

Donald Trump for a while. Are you reconciled? I recognise the mandate

:21:49.:21:56.

for him. I understand why he won. I will continue to struggle to forgive

:21:57.:22:02.

him for the comments he made about miniorities, many republicans could

:22:03.:22:06.

not get behind him for that. But the biggest comparison I have for him is

:22:07.:22:15.

to Ronald Reagan. Now he is in the presidency but Ronald Reagan united

:22:16.:22:19.

coalitions. He had been an active DFR... But it

:22:20.:22:28.

is completely... Completely. He had been governor of the largest State

:22:29.:22:37.

of the Union. Acheham ling con, give me a break.

:22:38.:22:39.

On that. It's expected that next

:22:40.:22:42.

Tuesday the Supreme Court will deliver its verdict

:22:43.:22:44.

on the Government's appeal against the previous High Court

:22:45.:22:46.

decision that parliament must vote on the decision to trigger Article

:22:47.:22:48.

50, which will kick off Ahead of that decision

:22:49.:22:51.

Jeremy Corbyn finds himself Yesterday the Labour leader said

:22:52.:22:54.

it was "very clear" his party accepted the referendum result,

:22:55.:23:00.

and that he will ask Labour MPs However, there are reports that

:23:01.:23:05.

around 60 Labour MPs in pro-Remain seats are threatening not to vote

:23:06.:23:13.

to trigger Brexit, including members Shadow Business Secretary Clive

:23:14.:23:18.

Lewis told one newspaper, signing Article 50

:23:19.:23:28.

under these conditions is in the best interests

:23:29.:23:31.

of...the country." And last night Shadow Defence

:23:32.:23:33.

Secretary Emily Thornberry was forced to defend Labour

:23:34.:23:35.

from accusations that they weren't scrutinising the Government

:23:36.:23:38.

or providing a strong enough Labour is not in power. The

:23:39.:23:45.

Conservatives are in power. What we should be looking at...

:23:46.:23:51.

You're not even in opposition! What we should be looking at as the

:23:52.:23:54.

opposition is what Theresa May has said. I wish her the best of luck, I

:23:55.:24:02.

hope she gets all she promises thankfully she made in that speech.

:24:03.:24:05.

We've been joined by the Labour MP Neil Coyle.

:24:06.:24:09.

You are not voting for Article 50? No.

:24:10.:24:16.

And why not, let's take the Supreme Court decision, if that is what it

:24:17.:24:21.

is? So, the Labour manifesto made clear that we supported being in the

:24:22.:24:24.

European Union, the Labour Conference voted to retain our

:24:25.:24:29.

position. And the facts have not changed from before the referendum.

:24:30.:24:34.

Irbelieve that voters want us to stand up for the principle, and not

:24:35.:24:42.

as Jacob Rees-Mogg says, have career politicians. Me beliefs have not

:24:43.:24:47.

changed. Your constituency voted remain?

:24:48.:24:51.

About 72%, yes. If they voted to leave, would that

:24:52.:24:56.

change your thinking? No. There are those lined up to vote against

:24:57.:25:01.

triggering Article 50. I understand but mostly from remain.

:25:02.:25:04.

Yes. How many will follow your example?

:25:05.:25:08.

There is speculation between 40 and 80. But unknown. There are

:25:09.:25:12.

discussions going on with the whips as to whether or not there is a free

:25:13.:25:15.

vote. Are we not clear yet from the whips

:25:16.:25:20.

whether this will be a free vote for Labour or a whipped vote? The

:25:21.:25:25.

decision has not been taken is the message that I got this morning.

:25:26.:25:28.

There is speculation, that is premature. We don't know which way

:25:29.:25:33.

it will go. In December there was a whipped vote. I was one of the 23

:25:34.:25:39.

Labour MPs who said I'm not voting for the Government's timetable.

:25:40.:25:44.

We also understand that Shadow Cabinet members may be voting with

:25:45.:25:48.

you? Yes. Is that, isn't that the end of

:25:49.:25:53.

collective Shadow Cabinet responsibility? Well, I'm still

:25:54.:25:57.

hoping there will be a free vote. I think that is why some of the Shadow

:25:58.:26:01.

Cabinet are indicating that they feel strongly and would like a

:26:02.:26:06.

chance to vote with their conscious. There is confusion, we face not just

:26:07.:26:11.

two years of debate and wrangle from the European Union but five years of

:26:12.:26:15.

negotiations for what new trade agreements would look like. We don't

:26:16.:26:19.

know that In that period, the damage is being

:26:20.:26:23.

done. Jobs are being lost in my constituency now.

:26:24.:26:27.

Jobs are being created... Jobs are being lost.

:26:28.:26:31.

That may be to do with your constituency. But the fact is that

:26:32.:26:35.

overall jobs have risen. But I want to talk about the process, to look

:26:36.:26:40.

at the substance of that another time. Is it not remarkable that Her

:26:41.:26:47.

Majesty's opposition, on something as fundamental as a vote to trigger

:26:48.:26:52.

the negotiations to begin our exit from the European Union, doesn't

:26:53.:26:55.

have a collective policy, and would have a free vote? To portray this as

:26:56.:27:02.

a Labour division or Labour not providing opposition, I dispute.

:27:03.:27:07.

You are divided. The Conservatives have lost. David

:27:08.:27:12.

Cameron has left early. Zac Goldsmith has been thrown out for

:27:13.:27:17.

his support. So to suggest that there is Labour confusion,

:27:18.:27:20.

government is in disarray. You want to talk about that later but I am

:27:21.:27:26.

saying for my businesses in my constituency, they are already not

:27:27.:27:30.

seeing investment. 7,000 leaving the country as a result of this.

:27:31.:27:35.

This could be given excuses. There are facts.

:27:36.:27:39.

They are not facts. There are, we have been told 7,000

:27:40.:27:48.

jobs are going... I'm a member of the party, I will be voting with

:27:49.:27:53.

Andrew here, there is a tone that the opposition sets, it is not about

:27:54.:28:00.

people saying you are not delegates, you represent your own selves and

:28:01.:28:06.

conscience but there is a tone that I don't understand in Labour's

:28:07.:28:11.

relation to this question. I don't know what it is. Now I know what

:28:12.:28:18.

Jeremy says. The latest thing now I understand that there will not be a

:28:19.:28:23.

three line whip but I don't know where Labour stands? I need to hear

:28:24.:28:29.

from Kate? The referendum was advisetory, there was no political

:28:30.:28:32.

weight. It had political weight but not

:28:33.:28:36.

binding. It did not have constitutional

:28:37.:28:41.

weight. Exactly. Your point to the career politicians, is it not

:28:42.:28:44.

strange to have a referendum, to hear the voice of the people then

:28:45.:28:48.

decide you are going down your own path to reject what they are going

:28:49.:28:55.

to do? That's a good question. We will let it hang in the wind. We

:28:56.:29:00.

have to move on. As the process unfolds come back to talk with us.

:29:01.:29:05.

And talk about the substance of the issue. The process is interesting as

:29:06.:29:08.

well. Thank you for being with us. Thank you.

:29:09.:29:13.

Now, you may well have had enough of referendums,

:29:14.:29:15.

but people in Surrey could soon have another one to look forward to.

:29:16.:29:18.

Surrey County Council have unveiled plans to raise council tax

:29:19.:29:20.

The proposal would cost residents around ?200 a year more on average,

:29:21.:29:24.

and will need to be approved in a local vote to go ahead.

:29:25.:29:27.

The Conservative Council say it's the only way they can protect local

:29:28.:29:30.

We'll talk to the Council's leader in a moment.

:29:31.:29:33.

First though, the BBC's deputy political editor John Pienaar

:29:34.:29:36.

was in the Surrey town of Esher yesterday, here's what some

:29:37.:29:38.

I believe, I heard it on the one o'clock news

:29:39.:29:46.

How about some more of that money for the Council for social

:29:47.:29:49.

There's lots of money in Surrey, but that doesn't mean to say

:29:50.:29:55.

we're going to accept a 15% rate increase.

:29:56.:29:57.

I can't afford to pay, because my pension is frozen.

:29:58.:30:04.

More council tax to pay for social care -

:30:05.:30:07.

I think we live in a very affluent area.

:30:08.:30:12.

There are lots of people around who need it more than

:30:13.:30:19.

Here with us now to discuss this is Dia Chakravarty,

:30:20.:30:28.

the Political Director of the Taxyapers' Alliance,

:30:29.:30:30.

and David Hodge, he's the Leader of Surrey County Council.

:30:31.:30:37.

-- here to discuss this is David Hodge. Not everyone is affluent.

:30:38.:30:49.

Yes, but we have two set a budget to protect vital services for people in

:30:50.:30:54.

Surrey. Demand is growing in social care, adults with learning

:30:55.:30:58.

disabilities, and we have to protect children's services. Will you go

:30:59.:31:04.

ahead with a 15% increase before the referendum then if the referendum

:31:05.:31:07.

goes the wrong way from your point of view, you would unravel the

:31:08.:31:14.

increase? You have to. The council papers require you to have two

:31:15.:31:20.

alternative budgets. So you could put it up before the people have

:31:21.:31:24.

decided whether it should go up? I didn't make the law. Just as a

:31:25.:31:30.

clarification. That will happen. How much will it raise? 5% is what the

:31:31.:31:44.

council would pretend. The extra 10% is around 60 million 70 million. And

:31:45.:31:50.

what will you spend it on? Adult social care. Hospitals need it to be

:31:51.:31:55.

protected fully so that we can get people out of hospital. Elderly

:31:56.:31:58.

people should not be staying in hospital. Get them out. You had to

:31:59.:32:04.

cut that part as local Government funding has been cut? We haven't cut

:32:05.:32:09.

it yet. We have worked really hard, and we are trying desperately to do

:32:10.:32:14.

that. We have the largest cohort of adults with learning disabilities in

:32:15.:32:17.

the country. It's a historical fact, and we have to look after them. The

:32:18.:32:22.

Surrey Conservative Paul Beresford said that this was not a good idea

:32:23.:32:26.

and you should look for savings elsewhere. Opposition councillors

:32:27.:32:31.

say the council is to blame for financial failings. What do you say

:32:32.:32:36.

to that? We have made ?450 million worth of annual savings since 2010,

:32:37.:32:42.

despite the Government cutting our grant by ?170 million since then. We

:32:43.:32:49.

are on track to save 700 to our transportation programme, which is

:32:50.:32:52.

vital to Surrey, but we have to come back to reality. The Government says

:32:53.:32:58.

we need ?70 million a year for learning disability clients and they

:32:59.:33:02.

have cut that by ?32 million. In terms of the better care fund, we

:33:03.:33:08.

are supposed to get ?25 million a year, but we are getting nothing

:33:09.:33:12.

next year, nothing the year after, and the following year, we get ?1.5

:33:13.:33:20.

million. So you need this money? Desperately. Is the Government not

:33:21.:33:25.

leaning on new? I am here to represent the people of Surrey. That

:33:26.:33:30.

is what I was elected to do. And in the process of that, this is quite

:33:31.:33:34.

embarrassing for the Government, so are they leaning on you to pull

:33:35.:33:40.

back? I have been producing facts and figures to MPs and to

:33:41.:33:45.

Government, and they have never told me the figures were incorrect. In

:33:46.:33:48.

fact, they had told me the figures are correct. Are they leaning on

:33:49.:33:54.

you? They can do that, but I am accountable to the people of Surrey,

:33:55.:33:58.

and we have to be honest, stood up and told people the facts. The facts

:33:59.:34:02.

are that adult social care is in crisis in this country. I understand

:34:03.:34:06.

that is where you're coming from, but are you going to win this

:34:07.:34:10.

referendum was Mike we will tell the truth. If we win, I will be very

:34:11.:34:17.

pleased. Let me try one more Time - will you win the referendum, or will

:34:18.:34:22.

it be a resigning matter if you lose a? I believe that the people of

:34:23.:34:26.

Surrey will go to that with a clear conscience. They know what the facts

:34:27.:34:32.

are. We will put the facts to them. You sound like a national

:34:33.:34:36.

politician. I am definitely not, much more local. I understand. We

:34:37.:34:42.

have run out of time. You have given the case, and we shall see what the

:34:43.:34:45.

outcome is. It's an interesting story. Thanks for being with us.

:34:46.:34:48.

It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz.

:34:49.:34:51.

The question was, who is headlining Donald Trump's

:34:52.:34:53.

So Bonnie and Kate what's the correct answer?

:34:54.:35:03.

Let's go with the person we had never heard of and say Toby Keith. I

:35:04.:35:11.

said you could do it by elimination. I have heard of him. He's great. I

:35:12.:35:20.

will get you a CD. It's the first time with the -- we been offered a

:35:21.:35:28.

present. Normally the guests just steel beam mugs.

:35:29.:35:33.

Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been

:35:34.:35:39.

For now it's time to say goodbye to my two guests of the day -

:35:40.:35:44.

So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe.

:35:45.:35:49.

We'll be discussing the reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech,

:35:50.:35:51.

the election of the new president of the European Parliament,

:35:52.:35:54.

and we report from Slovenia in the latest in our series,

:35:55.:35:56.

First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe -

:35:57.:36:00.

After much anticipation, on Tuesday, Prime Minister, Theresa May,

:36:01.:36:03.

She said the UK would leave the single

:36:04.:36:06.

market and had a stark message to Britain's European neighbours.

:36:07.:36:08.

No deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain.

:36:09.:36:11.

There were mixed reactions from European leaders.

:36:12.:36:13.

Some accused the PM of cherry-picking the parts

:36:14.:36:15.

Also on Tuesday, European Parliament elected its new President.

:36:16.:36:24.

Step forward, Italian politician, Antonio Tiani, who comes from the

:36:25.:36:28.

On Thursday, MEPs called for emergency aid for migrants and

:36:29.:36:33.

Specifically to help them cope with freezing temperatures

:36:34.:36:38.

And also this week, a report by top officials, called for the EU

:36:39.:36:43.

to raise its own taxes - stand by for

:36:44.:36:45.

news of a European VAT, a bank levy or a European corporate tax -

:36:46.:36:48.

And with me for the next 30 minutes i've been joined

:36:49.:37:00.

by the Conservative MEP Vicky Ford, and the Labour MEP Neena Gill.

:37:01.:37:03.

And we've also been joined from Brussels

:37:04.:37:07.

by Politico's Chief Brussels Correspondent David Herszenhorn.

:37:08.:37:15.

David, let me come to you first. When will we get the combined or

:37:16.:37:26.

collective European negotiating position? Mrs May as outlined in

:37:27.:37:30.

broad terms the British strategy with her speech this week. Will we

:37:31.:37:36.

get something similar from the European Union site? Certainly not

:37:37.:37:43.

before the triggering of Article 50. The EU has been clear about this,

:37:44.:37:47.

that it is not their job to help the UK along or to get ahead of formal

:37:48.:37:50.

procedures. You know the steps that need to be taken. We are waiting for

:37:51.:37:54.

a court decision, for Parliament act. Once that happens, and the

:37:55.:37:59.

formal notification is received in Brussels, then we will start to see

:38:00.:38:02.

the chief negotiator for the European Commission kick into

:38:03.:38:06.

action, and a more cohesive message should be coming out of Brussels at

:38:07.:38:13.

that point. In London, how much hostility is there to Britain in

:38:14.:38:17.

these negotiations, building up to these negotiations? I think there is

:38:18.:38:21.

resignation and disappointment with the way we are going, and I would

:38:22.:38:25.

say there is almost a feeling that there is an abdication of political

:38:26.:38:30.

leadership in terms of, we keep talking about immigration and only

:38:31.:38:34.

that, and not discussing important issues like the economy and jobs and

:38:35.:38:40.

what that means. The speech, other than clarifying that we're not going

:38:41.:38:44.

to be in the single market, which I'm personally really devastated by,

:38:45.:38:47.

because I do think it is important for our economy and jobs, and for

:38:48.:38:55.

our income, to safeguard NHS, education and services, but I think

:38:56.:38:58.

the main concern is that we seem to have thrown in the towel before

:38:59.:39:04.

we've actually started negotiations. Actually, I disagree. I happen to be

:39:05.:39:09.

in the more detailed discussions that are happening between the

:39:10.:39:13.

Parliaments' committees, and I've noticed very much a change of tone

:39:14.:39:17.

over the Christmas period, as those committees have started to look at

:39:18.:39:22.

the more detailed implications. Both sides, and we had a long meeting

:39:23.:39:29.

last week with the European Council chief negotiator. One of the people

:39:30.:39:35.

who is heading up... And he is a very detailed person, and one who

:39:36.:39:40.

talks about the need for partnership and the need to recognise the close

:39:41.:39:44.

economic ties between Europe and the UK. And what I have noticed, sorry,

:39:45.:39:51.

is that as they look at the details, a more practical and pragmatic

:39:52.:39:54.

approach, not wanting to damage the economy on either side of the

:39:55.:39:58.

Channel, and I am just beginning to feel in that negotiation... In

:39:59.:40:06.

response to Theresa May's speech, it has undone some of that work. My

:40:07.:40:12.

colleagues involved in those discussions, and they have said

:40:13.:40:16.

there was a plan, there is a way to move these former -- these things

:40:17.:40:21.

forward, but the way it has gone down now, people said, you are not

:40:22.:40:24.

really interested in a close a deal. You have stated that you want out,

:40:25.:40:33.

and... The Prime Minister wants as close a deal as possible. David, let

:40:34.:40:37.

me ask you this, because we are still a little unclear on this side

:40:38.:40:42.

of the Channel. Assuming Article 50 is triggered by the vote in

:40:43.:40:49.

parliament, what then, how does Europe come to its collective view?

:40:50.:40:54.

Does that have to be determined in the Council of ministers first, by

:40:55.:40:59.

the 27, excluding Britain? Duvet then give the chief negotiator a

:41:00.:41:03.

broad negotiating mandate. Will we get to see what that mandate is? We

:41:04.:41:09.

get the sense that that mandate is already taking shape. Let me back up

:41:10.:41:13.

a second to answer your previous question, which my fellow guests

:41:14.:41:16.

didn't get to, which is in fact there is a lot of lip service paid

:41:17.:41:22.

to the continuing importance and relevance of British officials in

:41:23.:41:25.

the EU and in Brussels. We are seeing that it is quickly apparent

:41:26.:41:30.

that they are being marginalised. In the Parliament, they say that

:41:31.:41:33.

everyone is a full member until Brexit happens, but it is clear that

:41:34.:41:37.

that relevance is diminishing fast, and that is important for the UK,

:41:38.:41:41.

which will be a part of the EU for the next couple of years. In terms

:41:42.:41:46.

of the mandate for the chief negotiator, there has been some

:41:47.:41:50.

reaction to the Prime Minister's speech, looking back to the very

:41:51.:41:54.

first but simple things that Angela Merkel said after the referendum,

:41:55.:41:58.

which is the four fundamental freedoms of the EU are not up for

:41:59.:42:03.

negotiation. What officials are telling me is that there doesn't

:42:04.:42:07.

seem to be sufficient recognition of that in London, that people haven't

:42:08.:42:10.

heard the message that these things are not negotiable. Membership has

:42:11.:42:23.

its privileges! What do you say? The Prime Minister recognise that very

:42:24.:42:25.

strongly, and recognised the importance of the four freedoms. She

:42:26.:42:29.

went on to talk about needing to keep a close economic partnership,

:42:30.:42:34.

but from the UK side, we want to keep open as much trade as possible

:42:35.:42:39.

and then put it back to the EU, the practical cooperation that we have

:42:40.:42:43.

on certain issues, like trading goods. She mentioned cars and

:42:44.:42:49.

financial services, the sort of practical co-operative links,

:42:50.:42:54.

wanting to keep... Can I ask a question? We haven't got much time,

:42:55.:42:59.

so we have to share of this. If the Government is ruling out membership

:43:00.:43:04.

of the single market, wine are the four freedoms relevant? They don't

:43:05.:43:07.

need to be up for negotiation, because if we're not going to be a

:43:08.:43:12.

member the single market, the four freedoms don't apply and are not for

:43:13.:43:22.

us. I agree. I am asking here in London, David. I think it is wrong

:43:23.:43:29.

that we put immigration above jobs and the economy, and that is what I

:43:30.:43:34.

am hearing from manufacturers in the West Midlands, that they need access

:43:35.:43:38.

to the single market. When we look at the referendum... Hold on... Let

:43:39.:43:44.

me just finished, we were being reassured that we weren't talking

:43:45.:43:49.

about leaving the single market. Do you accept that if we are not going

:43:50.:43:53.

to be a member of the single market, then the four freedoms that go with

:43:54.:43:56.

the single market, therefore, don't have to be part of the negotiations?

:43:57.:44:01.

Theresa it depends what we want. We have had some statements from the

:44:02.:44:05.

Prime Minister saying we will have customs arrangements, and it's not

:44:06.:44:08.

clear. We do not know what that means. Let me go back to David. If

:44:09.:44:16.

it is the Government position to go for a free-trade agreement, why are

:44:17.:44:21.

the four freedoms of the single market relevant? The point, I think,

:44:22.:44:26.

is to understand that if there is compromise on that side, and if the

:44:27.:44:31.

UK is not willing to live up to those standards, then in fact, there

:44:32.:44:35.

will be a cost to leaving membership of the EU, that any trade deal will

:44:36.:44:39.

not be as preferential. The Government knows that. If they

:44:40.:44:44.

understand that, then negotiations can proceed, but it will take some

:44:45.:44:51.

time. In any free-trade agreement, there is always a clause about these

:44:52.:44:57.

every access or movement. The Canadian free-trade deal, the most

:44:58.:45:02.

recent one, doesn't involve free movement. Can I come back in? Let's

:45:03.:45:09.

be clear. I have heard the chief negotiator say it is not a special

:45:10.:45:13.

deal for the UK but a deal that is very specific, that recognises our

:45:14.:45:17.

economic links, wants to form a new partnership, and that is what the

:45:18.:45:21.

Prime Minister has set out. She has set out her willingness to not put

:45:22.:45:24.

up new barriers to try, to manage the economy on both sides, and we

:45:25.:45:29.

need to start working on the detail of that. That is the tone I have

:45:30.:45:32.

heard in Brussels, and we need to start working.

:45:33.:45:37.

How much concern is interest in Brussels, or is there not a concern,

:45:38.:45:45.

of the kind of anti-establishment survey, that we have seen with the

:45:46.:45:49.

Donald Trump election, could dominate the important elections in

:45:50.:45:54.

Holland, France, Austria, perhaps Italy, and eelections taking place

:45:55.:45:59.

in Germany, that that could be the backdrop? Are they worried about

:46:00.:46:03.

what is happening on the ground this Europe? There is no question that

:46:04.:46:09.

the antiestablishment forces are a concern but interestingly, Donald

:46:10.:46:13.

Trump may be a force to serve to unify the EU, if the EU saw a reason

:46:14.:46:19.

to stay unified because of the upcoming Brexit negotiations, that

:46:20.:46:23.

Donald Trump is providing greater urgency for the EU to stay together.

:46:24.:46:28.

So folks are feeling confident, Angela Merkel thinks that things

:46:29.:46:32.

will be fine in the elections. I think there is confidence growing in

:46:33.:46:37.

Brussels they will make it through the elections OK and Trump is

:46:38.:46:40.

creating a unifying force. All right. There was confidence in

:46:41.:46:45.

the establishment that Donald Trump would not win the primary process as

:46:46.:46:51.

well, so let's see if the Princess Elizabeth bureaucrats are better at

:46:52.:46:55.

calling this than those on the other side of the Atlantic.

:46:56.:47:02.

It's the election that has gripped the corridors

:47:03.:47:05.

of Strasbourg this week, MEPs spent all of Tuesday voting

:47:06.:47:08.

for the next president of the European Parliament.

:47:09.:47:10.

It's an important position, because as the parliament's top dog

:47:11.:47:12.

they get to wield considerable influence behind the scenes.

:47:13.:47:14.

The moment when Antonio Tajani from the centre-right

:47:15.:47:17.

European People's Party became the new man in charge.

:47:18.:47:22.

Congratulating him, his predecessor Martin Schultz,

:47:23.:47:26.

the German socialist who's leaving after five years at the helm.

:47:27.:47:30.

Even though his party's candidate, Gianni Patella, was defeated

:47:31.:47:33.

As Schultz exits stage left, the changing of the guard

:47:34.:47:40.

at the European Parliament is completed.

:47:41.:47:46.

This election was really a battle between two Italians,

:47:47.:47:50.

but it started off as a contest divided up between six candidates.

:47:51.:47:58.

After three rounds of voting, it was down to Gianni Patella

:47:59.:48:00.

on the left and Antonio Tajani on the right.

:48:01.:48:03.

In the end, it was Mr Tajani who came out on top.

:48:04.:48:13.

Tajani's election marks a clean sweep for the centre-right

:48:14.:48:15.

As well as the Parliament, the Commission is headed up

:48:16.:48:18.

by Jean-Claude Juncker and the council by Donald

:48:19.:48:20.

We fought the monopoly but we weren't able to win

:48:21.:48:28.

but we fought strongly against the monopoly and we will

:48:29.:48:31.

Well, he's certainly a familiar face around the Parliament

:48:32.:48:47.

but he cut his political teeth as a spokesman for the controversial

:48:48.:48:50.

former Italian Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi.

:48:51.:48:54.

You can feel it, all of the different groupings

:48:55.:49:06.

If you ask them and inparticular Members of Parliament,

:49:07.:49:10.

what they would say about him, it is not only me,

:49:11.:49:13.

it is that he is a man that keeps his word and this

:49:14.:49:16.

It's this approach that eventually won Tajani the support of all

:49:17.:49:26.

It's this approach that eventually won Tajani the support of the other

:49:27.:49:29.

I think Tajani would be a better chairman for us in the Parliament,

:49:30.:49:33.

for two reasons, primarily, one, he has promised to be more

:49:34.:49:36.

of a speaker of the House than a Prime Minister,

:49:37.:49:38.

we need a more neutral conductor of business, and the other thing

:49:39.:49:41.

for a conservative mind, is that it is better

:49:42.:49:43.

to have a centre-right person in the chairman,

:49:44.:49:45.

to have a centre-right person in the chair,

:49:46.:49:47.

So for those two reasons we ended up in the last two rounds supporting

:49:48.:49:52.

Mr Tajani's intray is already pretty full, countering

:49:53.:49:55.

the rise of Euro-scepticism, ahead of elections in France,

:49:56.:49:57.

Germany and Holland, coping with any new wave

:49:58.:49:59.

of migrants, and of course, Brexit, although he won't be the man

:50:00.:50:02.

leading the negotiations on behalf of Parliament.

:50:03.:50:17.

That will be done by the liberal MEP, Mr Verhoffstat.

:50:18.:50:20.

How do you think Antonio Tajani will respond in terms of Brexit?

:50:21.:50:22.

I think in terms of rhetoric, of course, he will subscribe

:50:23.:50:25.

to the standard European position that they are opposed to Brexit,

:50:26.:50:28.

they think it's a disaster, they're going to punish us,

:50:29.:50:30.

they're going to expect to see us perform very badly,

:50:31.:50:34.

I think actually, I think he is much more measured and pragmatic.

:50:35.:50:37.

So Mr Tajani will most likely be the man here in post

:50:38.:50:39.

here at the Parliament in just over two years' time, when the sun sets

:50:40.:50:43.

on the UK's negotiation over its exit and MEPs

:50:44.:50:47.

from the remaining 27 member states will have a vote to ratify any

:50:48.:50:50.

Jo Coburn reporting from Strasbourg.

:50:51.:50:55.

So, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of The Commission, Donald Tusk,

:50:56.:51:02.

another conservative President of the council of ministers, now a

:51:03.:51:07.

centre-right Italian MEP, President of the Parliament, is the right

:51:08.:51:13.

taking over the EU's institutions? I am disappointed that our candidate,

:51:14.:51:17.

who put up a good fight but was not successful.

:51:18.:51:24.

Who were you backing? I was backing Gianni Patella.

:51:25.:51:27.

So, on you go. So, I think it is of concern that

:51:28.:51:34.

all three institutions are in the centre-right. I don't think it bodes

:51:35.:51:39.

well. But more importantly, what concerns me, and I get on very well

:51:40.:51:44.

with Antonio Tajani but I think he is not really a strong candidate in

:51:45.:51:50.

terms of the challenges the EU faces this year. And Martin Schultz has

:51:51.:51:58.

increased Parliament's role and that is important to connect with the

:51:59.:52:00.

citizens. OK. Is there not a certain irony

:52:01.:52:06.

that the conservative Government is taking us out of the EU

:52:07.:52:10.

institutions, just as the Conservatives are dominating the EU

:52:11.:52:15.

institutions? In response to Neena, the reason we have a centre-right

:52:16.:52:18.

politicians now is because the centre-right have more votes,

:52:19.:52:22.

because the centre-right got more votes from the public in the

:52:23.:52:26.

Parliament in the last election as they won more votes in the last

:52:27.:52:29.

European elections. So that is why he won. I am pleased to see someone

:52:30.:52:35.

who has said that they will be more of a speaker and less of a Prime

:52:36.:52:43.

Minister. We found Martin Schultz dictatorial. He overruled many

:52:44.:52:48.

decisions of the Parliament commission, so the backbenchers...

:52:49.:52:51.

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE Will he be helpful or unhelpful on

:52:52.:52:57.

Brexit? The reason I voted for him in the last round was that he

:52:58.:53:02.

promised to listen to all the Parliament, especially to the

:53:03.:53:07.

Conservative reformist group, my grouping and promised to pledge a

:53:08.:53:12.

neutral tone on Brexit to allow the negotiations to happen in a rack

:53:13.:53:16.

thank you call, pragmatic way. Although, part of the deal is that

:53:17.:53:24.

Verhofstat stays to strengthen and what Gianni Patella was offering.

:53:25.:53:29.

Vicky, let me finish, I listened to you. He was saying he would take

:53:30.:53:37.

Verhofstat off the negotiations, so in terms of British interests it

:53:38.:53:41.

would have been better, given his position on the UK... He is the

:53:42.:53:47.

Belgian federalist? Yes. He is now a leader of one of the

:53:48.:53:53.

groups and has an agreement with the centre-right grouping, the EPP, to

:53:54.:53:58.

change the direction of the EU. They now want a European coastguard, a

:53:59.:54:04.

European governor zone, a European defence force and also European

:54:05.:54:08.

intelligence and investigation capacity. So if that's the way that

:54:09.:54:13.

these two big groups in the European Parliament are going, even Labour

:54:14.:54:17.

could not support most of that? No. We were were not supporting these

:54:18.:54:20.

candidates. No but is that the direction of

:54:21.:54:25.

travel for Europe? This is what the Conservatives were supporting him

:54:26.:54:29.

for. I could not have supported the socialist candidate. You have a

:54:30.:54:35.

choice of two, both of them are federalist...

:54:36.:54:37.

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE Gianni Patella is En not a federalist. They said that

:54:38.:54:42.

the Antonio Tajani offer was to be more of a neutral speaker to allow

:54:43.:54:49.

the Parliament to move on. Just on Verhofstat, he is not in the

:54:50.:54:53.

negotiations. The negotiations happen with the entire Parliament.

:54:54.:54:59.

He is either in or not? He is the chief negotiator. One of the parts

:55:00.:55:02.

of the deal. Hold on.

:55:03.:55:05.

The two of you are confusing me! You are saying he is not in the

:55:06.:55:09.

negotiations, you are saying he is the chief negotiator. Both cannot be

:55:10.:55:15.

right? The Article 50 negotiations are conducted with the European

:55:16.:55:23.

Council and with the Barniaese team. The Parliament as a whole then hads

:55:24.:55:26.

a vote. I understand that. But I'm still not

:55:27.:55:32.

clear but have run out of time to clarify it. We have to move on in

:55:33.:55:39.

the latest of series of films for the EU Member States.

:55:40.:55:43.

Adam Fleming has travelled to Sloveni, where people

:55:44.:55:45.

in Melania Trump's home town have been getting used to the idea

:55:46.:55:47.

that their most famous ex-resident is moving into the White House.

:55:48.:55:57.

I was born in Slovenia, a small, beautiful and then communist country

:55:58.:56:00.

And here is where - the town of Sevnica.

:56:01.:56:08.

Fittingly for a former model, it is where you will find

:56:09.:56:14.

Slovenia's biggest manufacturer of pants.Melania left and found

:56:15.:56:22.

fame, fortune and a husband in the

:56:23.:56:25.

Since then, her home country has joined

:56:26.:56:28.

Armed with my Nova magazine, with Melania

:56:29.:56:33.

on the front cover, let's find out what people think about her.

:56:34.:56:36.

Can you imagine Donald Trump in the street,

:56:37.:56:56.

Here, they are offering a wise First Lady

:56:57.:57:02.

tour, where you can see the Melania's

:57:03.:57:24.

old school, have some of the

:57:25.:57:25.

At the Julia bakery, they are selling a Trump-themed cake.

:57:26.:57:59.

We put on white chocolate because of the White

:58:00.:57:59.

House, she is always dressed in white, so we put white chocolate.

:58:00.:57:59.

And we put gold on top because it's luxury.

:58:00.:58:00.

Also almonds and other special ingredients.

:58:01.:58:00.

It's not exactly Melania-mania, maybe because

:58:01.:58:01.

Mrs Trump's Slovenian lawyers have issued

:58:02.:58:21.

It's not exactly Melania-mania, maybe because

:58:22.:58:22.

Mrs Trump's Slovenian lawyers have issued

:58:23.:58:23.

a reminder that her name is a

:58:24.:58:25.

The biggest thing Mrs Trump has done for us is to get us

:58:26.:58:30.

In Sevnica, we're respectful about using

:58:31.:58:33.

her name, partly because her family still live here.

:58:34.:58:35.

And that will continue to be the case in the

:58:36.:58:37.

But surely it's all great material for Slovenian comedians.

:58:38.:58:40.

That she was a robot designed in Slovenia

:58:41.:58:44.

designed to infiltrate the White House and now we are in charge.

:58:45.:58:47.

We are such a small country, this was

:58:48.:58:49.

The president of Uefa is also Slovenian, so we're

:58:50.:58:52.

kind of like putting people in positions

:58:53.:58:53.

and waiting to see what is

:58:54.:58:55.

Celebrations for the inauguration are low-key.

:58:56.:58:58.

The main event is the annual pruning of Sevnica's

:58:59.:59:01.

That I will faithfully execute the Office...

:59:02.:59:09.

Andrew Neil is joined by playwright Bonnie Greer and Kate Andrews from Republicans Overseas to discuss Donald Trump's Inauguration as president of the United States.

Plus the latest news from Europe, where Italian politician Antonio Tajani has been elected the new president of the European Parliament.


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