20/02/2017 Daily Politics


20/02/2017

Jo Coburn is joined by Labour's Alan Johnson and Nusrat Ghani from the Conservative Party to review the day's politics.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:39.

Members of the House of Lords debate the legislation that paves the way

:00:40.:00:43.

We'll assess whether peers have the numbers, and the stomach,

:00:44.:00:48.

The Chancellor is under pressure to soften changes to business rates

:00:49.:00:54.

in England as companies complain they're facing huge

:00:55.:00:56.

Ukip leader Paul Nuttall is under pressure after two Ukip officials

:00:57.:01:05.

in Merseyside resign from the party saying he showed "crass

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insensitivity" about the Hillsborough disaster.

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And should the National Trust be celebrating the gay

:01:10.:01:15.

Aren't there already enough right on charities out there,

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treating us like primary school children, telling us what to think

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about the politically correct matters of the moment?

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All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole

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of the programme today is the Labour MP and former Home Secretary,

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Alan Johnson, and the Conservative MP for Wealden, Nusrat Ghani.

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First to the Brexit Bill which allows the government

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to trigger Article 50, the formal process for

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This week the House of Lords get their turn to debate

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the process, after MPs passed it without amendment

:02:01.:02:02.

But the bill is not expected to get an easy ride in the second chamber.

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The EU Notification of Withdrawal Bill will start its passage

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through the House of Lords today, with around 190 peers registered

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to speak on the two-day debate on the general principles

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It will then be sent for detailed scrutiny

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If the bill is not amended, then it could theoretically be

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approved by the Lords at Third Reading on 7th March,

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But two amendments seem to be gathering support

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amongst the Lords - one on the status of EU nationals

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currently living in the UK, and a second insisting Parliament

:02:41.:02:42.

gets a "meaningful" vote on any exit deal before it is agreed.

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If either of these amendments pass, then the bill is sent

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back to the Commons, which can vote to remove any

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amendments, before the whole process starts again.

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If that leads to an extended period when the bill ping-pongs

:02:59.:03:01.

between the two houses, that could delay the triggering

:03:02.:03:03.

of Article 50, something Prime Minister Theresa May has

:03:04.:03:05.

In the event of deadlock, the only way to force the bill

:03:06.:03:15.

through is by evoking the Parliament Act, but that can

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only be done after the whole process has been held up for a year.

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Yesterday, former Labour Business Secretary Lord Mandelson

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took to the airwaves to encourage his fellow members

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of the House of Lords to not give in too quickly.

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What we're saying is that what Parliament must agree

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is to say, look at the final deal, look at the outcome

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of the negotiations, and if it's not good for Britain,

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if it's potentially going to be a disaster for our economy,

:03:44.:03:47.

send the government back to the negotiating table.

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Do we then get a long period of ping-pong or does

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the House of Lords say, well, hold on a second,

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the referendum was clear, the Commons is clear,

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we are the unelected house, it's time to give up?

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At the end of the day the House of Commons must prevail

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But I hope the House of Lords will not throw in the towel early.

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We are joined now from the Lords lobby in Parliament

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by the Shadow Leader of the Lords, Baroness Angela Smith,

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and by the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the Lords,

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Welcome to both of you. Peter Mandelson said yesterday that the

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Lord should not throw in the towel too quickly, do you agree? We

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haven't even started the process yet and something you said at the

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beginning it we would delay the process, this is not a delayed. Us

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debating the issue, looking at amendment and possibly passing them

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is part of the process. While there were not any amendment in the House

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of Commons, there were changes made and the government gave guarantees

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on certain issues and I think those guarantees should be part of the

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bill and not just from a government say-so. We have seen with the child

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with issue, you can't always trust the government to say, we are going

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to do something, putting Parliamentary engagement and a

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meaningful vote on the face of the bill would be a sensible way forward

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and I'm hopeful, I would like the government to say, we have agreed to

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do that, let's put it on the bill and we proved we need to keep our

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word on it. If the amendments put forward on the meaningful

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Parliamentary vote to dump some time before a final deadline, and also on

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guarantees for EU nationals, if they were to fail in the Lords, would you

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vote against the bill? -- to come. No, we would do our best to get

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amendments, but it has been made very clear across the house from all

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sides that we're going to sabotage, block this bill but we do think it

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would be completely wrong, and constitutionally irresponsible for

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us just today to Theresa May, here it is, go of four two years and come

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back with a deal. They should be publicly engagement throughout the

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process. I am optimistic that the government should, because they have

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said they will put it on the face of the bill. Would you vote against the

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Brexit bill if those two amendment I mentioned failed? I don't do it will

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come of that, I think we will be successful in getting them through

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also and that is the role of the House of Lords, to ask the

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government and the Commons to think again if we think they have got it

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wrong. We clearly do think they have on these issues and I'm sure that

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the majority view in the House of Lords. So you think the numbers are

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there and the amendments will pass, on a meaningful Parliamentary vote

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at the end of the negotiations which would give Parliament the chance to

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say to the government, you have to go back and renegotiate because we

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don't think it's a good enough deal, and also on the guaranteed rights of

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EU citizens. If the Lord part of those amendments and the Commons

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rejects them, would you beat your heels in when it came back to the

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Lords? As Angela has said, the view of the Commons prevails and

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ping-pong, even when we have had it repeatedly which we did under the

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house arrest proposals under the Blair government, is a relatively

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quick procedure. How far the Lord will resist it, I'm not sure, but

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whatever they do, the government is under no threat whatsoever that this

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bill will not get through in plenty of time before the 31st of March. So

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even if you were to dig your heels in, you still think the timetable

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would be kept but you anticipate some form of ping-pong? I do

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anticipate some form, absolutely. Do you agree that it could go back

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several times? It is difficult to know or judge that yet but just

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sending something to the comment is part ping-pong. I have to say, the

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fact that the government had said this deadline for the of March and

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to rush the bill through, it was this government who spent three

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months in the court allowing judges to debate the issue at great expense

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when we could have spent that time in Parliament. I don't see any

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difficulty with the deadline having been set by the end of March but it

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has been a truncated process. We are likely to be here beyond midnight

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tonight and tomorrow night, possibly next week as well so we will do our

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job, we will not be forced into not properly debating this because of

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the government truncated timetable. You said you'd think those

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amendments will pass, otherwise you are happy to trigger Article 50?

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They are not the only amendments we will be pushing hard, there is an

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amendment to give the people of final say in a referendum when we

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know what the Brexit deal is and we will work very hard across the House

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of Lords to do that. There are other amendments around reporting and

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various other issues which we support as well. Those two that you

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mentioned are ones where the government is clearly vulnerable but

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I would not are the are the only ones. Do you agree they would be

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vulnerable on a second referendum at the end of the process? I don't

:09:03.:09:07.

think it is likely to pass, we will wait and see. Who knows what will

:09:08.:09:12.

happen in the next two years? The important thing at the moment is to

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get a process going by which there is Parliamentary engagement. If

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there is to be a meaningful vote... What does that mean for you? That we

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vote before the European Parliament votes and we have the information

:09:26.:09:28.

throughout the process but if the deal is not a good one or it is

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looking and unsatisfactory position for the UK, that will be something

:09:34.:09:38.

that becomes evident over some period of time and that is why the

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parliament engagement is so important. What do you want for the

:09:42.:09:45.

government to write on the face of the bill? So you could keep going

:09:46.:09:52.

back to the drawing board? You can't keep going back, you would have to

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ask the other European countries to extend the time all 27 of them. The

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key to this throughout the process the government should be engaging

:10:05.:10:07.

with Parliament and using the expertise from Parliament to try to

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get the best deal possible. It would be pretty drastic if, at the end of

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two years, the government and parliament was saying this is too

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awful. The key is to have engagement to get the best deal. Do you

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understand those who say that the Lords should not have any role in

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terms of holding up what they see as the will of the people? I understand

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that view but as we both said, we are not hold it up, there is a big

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distinction between amending bill under normal timetable and holding

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it up. We are going to be amending the bill. If the House of Lords

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cannot ask the to think again it might as well pack up its bags go

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home. Without being rude, you can do that for the moment! Not until

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midnight! Do you have sympathy on their dues, White shouldn't the

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Lords and ladies scrutinise this bill and amend it? -- why shouldn't.

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It is their right to sue but the amendments they spoke about, about

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EU citizens, assurances have been given by the Prime Minister and the

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Minister, these will be prioritised in negotiating the best possible

:11:20.:11:23.

deal. It could take two years. But you also heard from the Liberal

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leader that they would like to negotiate for as long as it takes to

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get the best deal possible and then have a number of referendum until

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the Lib Dems are happy with whatever outcome they think best suits the

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country. The country has decided and we have an extensive debate in the

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House of Commons and it has passed with an overall majority to enable

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us to trigger Article 50 and begin these negotiations and to see what

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kind of deal we can get. In a way, they are at least trying to

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scrutinise and amend the bill in the way the opposition failed to do in

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the Commons, there was a blank cheque given to the government. We

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did try. Of course we tried. It is interesting that they picked out

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these two issues because I think these were the issues, I said it on

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the date the bill was published, I expected a coalition across party

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lines. People have been living and working here and made their homes

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here and they should not be used as a bargaining chip in this. I hope

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the government thinks again about that and the other issue, can EU

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countries say, yes of course British National in our country will be

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entitled to stay? We will be a non-EU country and the policy of all

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EU countries is that non-EU countries are decided by each

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country so how can they collectively make that decision? The best thing

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to do is to take the moral high ground and say, that is what we are

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doing with your citizens, and to start the negotiations on I think

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that fruitful and positive line. What do you make of the intervention

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from Peter Mandelson, encouraging his colleagues in the House of Lords

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not to throw the towel into early? He is right, it is common sense.

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These two amendments are the important ones. There are views on

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all sides of a house about them and of course it is the job of the

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Lords. I think they should be elected but I agree there should be

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a second chamber and its job is to scrutinise. That is what they are

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doing. Do you think there will be a backlash against the Lords? How

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would you feel if they hold it up? We will have to see what happened in

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the debate but fundamentally we have to reflect the will of the people

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and the democratically elected parliamentarians have had a huge

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amount of debate, beyond the two weeks we have debated the issue, and

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the House of Lords needs to reflect on how it should scrutinise. I have

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confidence they will do the right thing. Otherwise? They have to

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evaluate what they are there to do. There will be ping-pong but this is

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the term for sending it back and forth, but it will be once or twice.

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And you heard it from the two leaders, there is a large tranche of

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crossbenchers but the mood in the House of Lords is that they will not

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hold it up. Also because the mood in the country if they do not want this

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held up. Over 62% of people want us to crack on and for article 50 to be

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triggered. And will be MPs continue to vote for this if there is

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ping-pong? Labour and others. I was disappointed that the Conservatives,

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a few rebels but they kept their heads down. This is a good way to

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start and I hope they think again. If the Lords makes this decision.

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But in the end, I confidently predict that on March the 7th this

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will go through. And in terms of the amendments, should the government

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just accept those two? They have already said that they will

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prioritise ensuring the security of EU citizens in this country but we

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need the same for British citizens overseas as well, we have to make

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sure they are also feeling secure. What about a unilateral... This is

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the negotiations that will begin. Why not have that stance before the

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negotiations start? We also need to ensure that our British citizens in

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Europe have the same security. So they are a bargaining chip? These

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are negotiations, they will begin when the trigger article 50. That

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talk about Tony Blair because not everybody welcomed his intervention.

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Was it a case of the right message and the wrong messenger?

:15:26.:15:30.

The message Tony Blair was putting forward was it is right to trigger

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Article 50, the will of the people must prevail was his opening remark.

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It is very much my view as well. As this moves on, you'll see, there'll

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come a time when the British people will have a choice between leaving

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the European Union and on the terms of the negotiation if that's

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presented, we've been assured in Parliament by David Davis, Theresa

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May, Liam Fox that they can negotiate terms that will not be

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detrimental at all to Britain. We'll have the same, there's numerous

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quotes about this. And you believe that? They've said it to Parliament.

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Tony Blair also said and implied and hinted heavily, Labour didn't oppose

:16:18.:16:24.

a process that he felt shouldn't have gone ahead at all. That

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provoked him making the speech he Z That's a misreading of his speech.

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His opening remarks were the will of the people must prevail. He did go

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on about the Labour Party? Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Blair's views are

:16:42.:16:46.

particular. Jeremy Corbyn said his intervention wasn't helpful? It was.

:16:47.:16:51.

Not least of all because Tony mentioned the fact it must be up to

:16:52.:16:56.

Europe to reform as well. If, at the end of this package, Europe's still

:16:57.:17:01.

the same rules on free movement, people will choose whatever the

:17:02.:17:06.

alternative is to staying in the EU. There's been a rethink in Europe

:17:07.:17:11.

about these things. Do you think, is that what you're relying on? They'll

:17:12.:17:15.

have a rethink on benefits? That campaign changed from the day the

:17:16.:17:19.

Office of National Statistics recorded net migration at its

:17:20.:17:24.

biggest ever level. Much enbiger than after 2004 when the accession

:17:25.:17:30.

countries came in. A record of 333,000. You could feel the

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arguments. But Labour have to take response ebb I will for not having

:17:35.:17:38.

transitional arrangements from the start? 333,000 is high are than

:17:39.:17:43.

after 2004. You're saying the number's all right? After six years

:17:44.:17:48.

of Government, Theresa May said we'd get it down to the tens of

:17:49.:17:49.

thousands. And you'll be able to watch

:17:50.:17:50.

all of the Lords debate on Article The question for today is:

:17:51.:17:53.

which group does Microsoft founder Bill Gates think should be

:17:54.:18:01.

taxed in future? a) Schoolchildren, b) Robots,

:18:02.:18:05.

c) Pets or d) Graffiti artists? Alan and Nusrat will

:18:06.:18:12.

give us the correct answer. And you you can't confer! Of course

:18:13.:18:20.

you can! Business rates are taxes paid

:18:21.:18:24.

on non-residential property, So far, so uncontroversial,

:18:25.:18:25.

except in England the government has decided to change the way the tax

:18:26.:18:29.

is calculated and the resulting revaluation - the first since 2010 -

:18:30.:18:34.

has resulted in quite substantial increases - and decreases -

:18:35.:18:38.

in the amounts companies Among the organisations which have

:18:39.:18:42.

been expressing concerns is the Federation of Small

:18:43.:18:47.

Businesses. Their spokesman is Alan Soady

:18:48.:18:49.

and he's here to speak to us. Welcome, according to the Treasury

:18:50.:19:01.

minister responsible for this, you're scaremongering? We need to

:19:02.:19:05.

look at the reality of the Government's figures on this. About

:19:06.:19:07.

one in four businesses under the Government's figures will be seeing

:19:08.:19:11.

an increase in their business rate as a result of this re-evaluation.

:19:12.:19:17.

That's about in excess of half a million firms around the country. It

:19:18.:19:22.

is true to say that there are going to be winners as well as losers in

:19:23.:19:27.

this re-evaluation. Three in four firms either will see their rates

:19:28.:19:30.

not really changing very much or will see them going down. There are

:19:31.:19:36.

more winners than losers? On the Government's figures, it's true. The

:19:37.:19:39.

problem is within the significant minority that are seeing their rates

:19:40.:19:44.

going up, as the bills are now landing on doormats, we are seeing

:19:45.:19:48.

some real anomalies of this business rate systems. Some smaller business

:19:49.:19:54.

in the areas where property values have disproportionately gone up in

:19:55.:19:58.

recent years, they're seeing astronomical increases. But this is

:19:59.:20:01.

a re-evaluation. That is what happens. There are winners and

:20:02.:20:05.

losers. Up for some, down for most, it seems. So, it's just what

:20:06.:20:11.

happens? The problem is just that it is so, so disproportionate. We've

:20:12.:20:14.

talked to the Government for a long time about this. Going back to last

:20:15.:20:20.

year's budget when George Osborne was Chancellor, there was a

:20:21.:20:26.

concession which took hundreds of thousands of the smallest firms out

:20:27.:20:30.

of the system. That's how there are so many not affected by all of this.

:20:31.:20:34.

For those that are, this is all based on a system that decides how

:20:35.:20:39.

much someone has to pay in their business taxes based upon an art

:20:40.:20:43.

trinotional value of the rentable value of their property. We've

:20:44.:20:47.

examples of even where someone's rent may have gone up about 25%, yet

:20:48.:20:53.

the rantable value, according to the officials for business rates say

:20:54.:20:59.

perhaps it is in the region of 60% or 70%. The bottom line is it does

:21:00.:21:04.

mean there is a danger, I know this from some members of the Federation

:21:05.:21:08.

of Small Businesses who I've spoken to personally, there are some who

:21:09.:21:12.

genuinely are thinking they may have to close their business inmaterial

:21:13.:21:16.

or go online and close down their shop. Not just shops. There's been a

:21:17.:21:22.

focus on high treats about B, pub, manufacturing firms affected by

:21:23.:21:28.

this too. If you're hear that can anecdotally, do you get any sense

:21:29.:21:32.

Philip ham and will soften the blow? In the longer term, there is a need

:21:33.:21:36.

for radical reform around business rates. The whole system is quite

:21:37.:21:42.

out-Taited. Doesn't take into account online businesses. For the

:21:43.:21:46.

here and now, we've the budget coming up next month. Philip Hammond

:21:47.:21:52.

has the opportunity to do something. One, welt' do some survey work this

:21:53.:21:56.

week with our members, now they're getting their bills through the

:21:57.:22:02.

door, we can try to build up a more accurate picture of the affect, how

:22:03.:22:06.

many people are affected by what proportion. We'll pass those results

:22:07.:22:12.

to the Governments. Where there are pockets of the country, London is

:22:13.:22:16.

particularly badly affected but not just a London thing. We hope there

:22:17.:22:21.

could be relief put in place for people seeing astronomical

:22:22.:22:25.

increases. Should that relief be put forward? Depending on the outcome.

:22:26.:22:30.

There will be winners and losers. I have a number of small businesses in

:22:31.:22:36.

my constituency who are alarmed by what they're reading in the press.

:22:37.:22:40.

We have a reduction of 2.5%. We're lucky. If there is a business within

:22:41.:22:46.

my constituency, they'll see a sharper rise than expected that

:22:47.:22:51.

support is available. If there are business rate rises of 11 or 12%, in

:22:52.:22:57.

Philip Philip own constituency, and Theresa May's, how can businesses

:22:58.:23:02.

afford that? We don't know that. The rates are coming through in two or

:23:03.:23:06.

three weeks. That's what has been reported. Three quarters of the

:23:07.:23:12.

businesses won't see a raise. 6,000 businesses will see complete rate

:23:13.:23:16.

relief. There are winners and losers across the whole spectrum. If there

:23:17.:23:20.

are tweets which need to be made, I hope we can have that conversation

:23:21.:23:23.

with the right department and Chancellor. Some of these areas are

:23:24.:23:27.

seeing a starker increase than expected. That's the point, winners

:23:28.:23:32.

and losers. Areas like yours will probably be fine? City of Culture

:23:33.:23:39.

will see rates go down. It is London and some of the wealthier areas that

:23:40.:23:44.

will be hit? I've sympathy with the Government on this. Re-evaluation of

:23:45.:23:49.

rates is never a happy event. I was in Government when we did it. The

:23:50.:23:53.

mistake this Government made, they put it off ahead of the 2015...

:23:54.:23:59.

We're having a root and branch look at how this works. They haven't had

:24:00.:24:05.

it. What you're getting now is the result of that, both delaying it to

:24:06.:24:10.

the extent you've County Council elections this year. Many people are

:24:11.:24:14.

worried about the effect there. No, we need to have that root and branch

:24:15.:24:20.

effect. How long would that take? The issue is, local authorities

:24:21.:24:23.

don't set the business rates. Government does. Look at

:24:24.:24:27.

authorities, at the moment, can draw down 50% of it. A recent

:24:28.:24:32.

development, to fund local services. From 2020, they will be able to keep

:24:33.:24:38.

100%. In places like Hull, we want to make sure the system has been

:24:39.:24:42.

reformed before we take 100%. Obviously. Exactly. Which is why

:24:43.:24:50.

that root and branch reform has to take place. When should that happen

:24:51.:24:55.

or not at all? Let's see what happens in the next couple of weeks

:24:56.:25:01.

when these bills come through and conversations will happen between

:25:02.:25:03.

appropriate ministers and the Chancellor. In Wealdon we're lucky,

:25:04.:25:10.

we'll have generally, a minus 2.5%. There will always be winners and

:25:11.:25:13.

losers. There's still a fund available. But if the losers were in

:25:14.:25:19.

your constituency, would you be as happy as you seem to be? It is not

:25:20.:25:24.

about being happy. I have to make sure all of my kiss are doing well.

:25:25.:25:30.

If it's a company which employs a lot of people in the centre of town,

:25:31.:25:34.

they get a higher business rate than someone like Amazon or something who

:25:35.:25:42.

does all their businesses online. Online businesses are not being hit?

:25:43.:25:48.

This is an issue. How to keep high streets thriving. We need to keep

:25:49.:25:52.

people shopping out and about. Less online. That's not going to be

:25:53.:25:57.

comfort for those businesses which go bust. Some will just shut up shop

:25:58.:26:03.

now. We don't know yet. There is another issue when you're trying to

:26:04.:26:07.

represent the concerns of your businesses and constituents, where

:26:08.:26:11.

they come across media which occasionally overextends what is

:26:12.:26:16.

going to happen. You agree with ministerial colleagues that fake

:26:17.:26:20.

news is in existence? Not at all. We have to wait to see what happens to

:26:21.:26:25.

these businesses. There is a fund available for those struggling. And

:26:26.:26:32.

you can still appeal. These changes happen every seventh year. Are you

:26:33.:26:38.

worried it might cost you seats in London and the south-east if people

:26:39.:26:43.

are badly hit? We'll have to wait and see and communicate any issues

:26:44.:26:45.

to the Chancellor. Two Ukip officials have

:26:46.:26:47.

resigned from the party over the row about the 1989

:26:48.:26:50.

Hillsborough disaster. Last week, the Ukip leader and Stoke

:26:51.:26:52.

by-election candidate Paul Nuttall had to apologise after his website

:26:53.:26:55.

falsely stated that he had lost Mr Nuttall pinned the blame

:26:56.:26:58.

on a member of his staff saying The Ukip donor Arron Banks

:26:59.:27:05.

decided to get involved - tweeting that he was "sick to death"

:27:06.:27:10.

of hearing about Hillsborough. Our political correspondent

:27:11.:27:14.

Tom Bateman has the latest. Give us the latest details? What

:27:15.:27:26.

happened after this controversy which happened while Mr Knuttal was

:27:27.:27:31.

a candidate in the stoke by-election and a raft of criticism for Mr Banks

:27:32.:27:38.

over the comments he made on Twitter was two regional officials for Ukip

:27:39.:27:42.

in Liverpool and Merseyside said they were going to resign because of

:27:43.:27:52.

all this. They are Stuart Monkham and Adam heath rings ton, the chair

:27:53.:27:59.

in Merseyside. They cited the unprofessional and crass

:28:00.:28:02.

insensitivity of the comment and handling of those figures and of Mr

:28:03.:28:06.

Knuttal in particular, the handling of the events about what had

:28:07.:28:10.

happened on his website. Having to apologise for that false claim on

:28:11.:28:16.

it. Potentially why this is so damaging is Mr Knuttal had said all

:28:17.:28:22.

of this was a smear by Ukip's political opponents, people wishing

:28:23.:28:26.

to do them ill. Particularly with by-elections upcoming. Yet, here we

:28:27.:28:32.

have two people from Mr Knuttal's home turf resigning. Ukip, this

:28:33.:28:36.

afternoon, are trying to play this down at a national level saying

:28:37.:28:40.

think understand the pressures put locally on those two officials. They

:28:41.:28:45.

say they don't blame them for resigning. There will be more

:28:46.:28:49.

resignations following this? Certainly one Ukip source on

:28:50.:28:53.

Merseyside suggested to us that there could be more resignations

:28:54.:28:56.

that follow. Certainly you might expect if the chairman of a branch

:28:57.:28:59.

had gone that others may follow in their wake. Of course, we'll have to

:29:00.:29:05.

wait and see. The wider question here is about Ukip's leadership,

:29:06.:29:09.

particularly after the summer where they appeared to lunch from one

:29:10.:29:13.

crisis to the next but appeared to get on to a stead year footing with

:29:14.:29:20.

the election of Paul Nuttall. A lot will depend what happens locally.

:29:21.:29:23.

We'll have by-elections later this week. Many people will read much

:29:24.:29:28.

into the fortunes of all split cat parties as we see the results of

:29:29.:29:32.

those. An interesting few days. It will no doubt have an impact on Mr

:29:33.:29:38.

Nuttall's campaign in Stoke? That's the big question. That campaign

:29:39.:29:43.

continues. We're a few days away from Stoke-on-Trent. But also, there

:29:44.:29:47.

is a by-election in Copeland where Ukip are standing as well. This is

:29:48.:29:51.

not just a particular issue about his cand Si there but Ukip's

:29:52.:29:55.

fortunes elsewhere in the country. Not just in a by-election. Thank you

:29:56.:29:57.

very much. Paul Nuttall is, of course, standing

:29:58.:29:59.

in this week's by-election in Stoke, where Labour are defending

:30:00.:30:02.

a 5,000 majority over Ukip. Adam Fleming reports now

:30:03.:30:05.

from the campaign trail. I caught up with the Ukip lead and

:30:06.:30:19.

that ended in Stoke-on-Trent Central before he found himself on the ropes

:30:20.:30:24.

with his party over claims he made about the Hillsborough disaster.

:30:25.:30:27.

Unfortunately I think many feel that they've been left behind

:30:28.:30:30.

I think what they need is a national voice,

:30:31.:30:34.

someone who can stand up in the House of Commons and be

:30:35.:30:36.

listened to, and I believe I'm that man to put Stoke-on-Trent

:30:37.:30:39.

To make Ukip look opportunistic, the Labour candidate says

:30:40.:30:42.

I live just outside the city in a pit village called Silverdale.

:30:43.:30:47.

I've been here for 13 years, it's where my family are,

:30:48.:30:49.

it's where my daughter was born, and I consider myself

:30:50.:30:52.

Although he's had problems too, apologising for tweets deemed to be

:30:53.:30:56.

rude, sexist and insulting to supporters of Brexit.

:30:57.:31:01.

Sarah Olney of the Lib Dems won the last by-election in this

:31:02.:31:04.

Parliament and she spoke to us while their candidate was at work,

:31:05.:31:07.

Well, his major issue is just standing up for the NHS.

:31:08.:31:12.

We're not hearing that from the Tories, they want

:31:13.:31:14.

We know that the NHS has been in crisis,

:31:15.:31:18.

particularly over the winter, and we just feel Labour are not

:31:19.:31:21.

providing the opposition they need to be providing to this

:31:22.:31:24.

While the Tories and the Greens are focusing on the economy.

:31:25.:31:28.

One of my key priorities is to create more opportunities

:31:29.:31:32.

for Stoke, more jobs, and not just more jobs, better jobs,

:31:33.:31:34.

better skilled jobs, better paid jobs for local people.

:31:35.:31:38.

The Green Party's campaign is about insecure employment,

:31:39.:31:40.

we want to get people better jobs in the area, and also

:31:41.:31:46.

The city, which is really more like a handful of villages joined

:31:47.:31:50.

together, has been rock-solid safe for Labour for much of the last

:31:51.:31:52.

century but has become increasingly less so over recent decades.

:31:53.:31:55.

A big majority voted to leave the EU which is why Ukip

:31:56.:31:58.

This is also the home to the inventor of posh pots,

:31:59.:32:02.

Josiah Wedgwood and, much more my style, Robbie Williams.

:32:03.:32:05.

I don't know the answer to that, I know the tune in my head

:32:06.:32:14.

but I don't know the words, I'm afraid.

:32:15.:32:17.

And then I go and spoil it all by saying something stupid...

:32:18.:32:38.

If there's somebody calling me on, she's the one.

:32:39.:32:56.

I almost feel sorry for the candidates!

:32:57.:33:08.

And a full list of all the candidates standing

:33:09.:33:12.

in the Stoke Central by-election is on your screens now,

:33:13.:33:14.

and can be found on our website at bbc.co.uk/politics.

:33:15.:33:20.

The Stoke Central by-election is not the only big event

:33:21.:33:22.

As we have just discussed, the Article 50 debate kicks off

:33:23.:33:26.

in the Lords today and will continue over the next two weeks.

:33:27.:33:29.

Later today, the Commons will discuss two online petitions

:33:30.:33:31.

One opposing it with nearly 1.9 million names.

:33:32.:33:38.

And another supporting it with around a third

:33:39.:33:40.

On Tuesday, the Women and Equalities Committee

:33:41.:33:46.

publishes its latest report on the Gender Pay Gap.

:33:47.:33:49.

On Wednesday, of course, it's Prime Minister's Questions,

:33:50.:33:53.

which you can watch live here on the Daily Politics.

:33:54.:33:56.

Thursday sees Jeremy Corbyn defending two Labour seats

:33:57.:34:00.

in by-elections in Stoke Central and Copeland in Cumbria.

:34:01.:34:03.

Friday sees the start of the Scottish Labour Conference

:34:04.:34:07.

in the 'Fair City' of Perth, the party's first since its drubbing

:34:08.:34:09.

And, to discuss the political week ahead, we've been joined

:34:10.:34:16.

by Lucy Fisher from the Times, and Torcuil Crichton

:34:17.:34:18.

Welcome to both of you. Have the lordships got the nerve for a fight

:34:19.:34:29.

or will they just see this through? I think there is the nerve for a

:34:30.:34:33.

fight. It is so tempting for the Lords to do that because the

:34:34.:34:37.

Conservatives don't have a majority in the upper chamber as they do in

:34:38.:34:41.

the Commons so my understanding that the two big amendments to watch out

:34:42.:34:46.

for are about assuring the right of EU nationals to stay in the UK and

:34:47.:34:49.

secondly about Parliament getting a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal

:34:50.:34:53.

that is finally negotiated. It looks likely that if about a dozen Tory

:34:54.:34:58.

peers abstain and other opposition peers join forces, they could pass

:34:59.:35:01.

bows and send them back to the Commons. We have heard from two

:35:02.:35:07.

peers, both of whom have pledged to push this through even if they get

:35:08.:35:12.

those amendments within the timetable set by Theresa May. Do you

:35:13.:35:19.

believe them? I do, it is getting a bit like the Star Wars saga, we are

:35:20.:35:24.

on episode two and it might have a slightly different ending in that

:35:25.:35:29.

the Lords might well ping the amendments that Lucy outlined, that

:35:30.:35:36.

might go back to the Commons but then it will go right back up to the

:35:37.:35:41.

Lords again. And I think the Lords, while they might make eloquent

:35:42.:35:45.

speeches and keep us up late tonight and tomorrow, I think they have a

:35:46.:35:49.

sense of self-preservation and I don't think they will defy the

:35:50.:35:52.

government or indeed the result of the referendum. 190 apparently have

:35:53.:35:58.

signed up to speak and it will be a long process. Is that what will stop

:35:59.:36:03.

them holding it up, the threat of abolition? I think that's right. We

:36:04.:36:07.

have heard government sources warning them not to play God. David

:36:08.:36:12.

Davis seem too tried to dial the rhetoric down and called on peers to

:36:13.:36:19.

do their patriotic duty and let the bill passed before the deadline that

:36:20.:36:25.

Theresa May has pledged. It is clear that if they do try to hold it up

:36:26.:36:29.

and block the democratic will of the people, as many MPs are saying and

:36:30.:36:34.

Brexiteers are saying, I think they will fall down on their own heads a

:36:35.:36:40.

huge debate about their future. Let's talk about the by-elections in

:36:41.:36:43.

Cumbria and Stoke. How big is the threat to Jeremy Corbyn if Labour

:36:44.:36:48.

loses them? We have a range of possibilities, he could win both, he

:36:49.:36:53.

could lose both or lose one or the other. I think in Copeland they will

:36:54.:36:58.

find it difficult to hold on because of Corbyn being seen as being

:36:59.:37:04.

antinuclear and anti-Trident and they are built just up the road in

:37:05.:37:07.

Barrow-in-Furness. If identity politics is coming to the fore, then

:37:08.:37:13.

this feeling of Patrick is and wanting your readers to be with you

:37:14.:37:21.

is what you want -- patridge is -- patriotism. And in Stoke, where Ukip

:37:22.:37:29.

appear to be imploding, the Tories have sent the Prime Minister up so

:37:30.:37:33.

they are obviously sensing something is changing but I think Theresa May

:37:34.:37:37.

being that might split the vote and allow Jeremy Corbyn and Labour to

:37:38.:37:42.

come through the middle. Plenty to chew over. If their talk about

:37:43.:37:50.

left-wing replacements being lined up to come in behind Jeremy Corbyn

:37:51.:37:56.

if there is one or two losses? There are those conversations going on

:37:57.:37:59.

behind closed doors in Westminster but we have to be aware of the fact

:38:00.:38:04.

that Jeremy Corbyn has shown himself throughout his time as leader, he

:38:05.:38:08.

does not bow to political pressure, he did not bow to over 170

:38:09.:38:12.

colleagues voting for much of no confidence in him. I think there

:38:13.:38:17.

could be interest from some quarters for a handover, a key technicality

:38:18.:38:21.

is that they will not make that move until it is assured that a left-wing

:38:22.:38:25.

candidate will get into the contest and at the moment, such a candidate

:38:26.:38:30.

would need 15%, around 35 Labour MPs, to nominate them and I think we

:38:31.:38:34.

will hear more about the rule change on that in the coming year but until

:38:35.:38:38.

then Jeremy Corbyn will sit tight. Let's talk about Scottish Labour and

:38:39.:38:44.

the conference in Perth. Will the atmosphere be somewhere between Wake

:38:45.:38:51.

and a rare breed's convention? It depends on the result! The theme

:38:52.:38:59.

ironically, will be a second referendum, not a second EU

:39:00.:39:02.

referendum but a second Scottish referendum. It is such a Tabuk in

:39:03.:39:06.

the UK on running the second referendum on the EU. -- taboo. It

:39:07.:39:16.

is boiling up in Scotland and the SNP conference, but the theme of

:39:17.:39:22.

labour will be together we are stronger, putting the tin lid on the

:39:23.:39:26.

idea that Labour might want a second referendum and career don't go --

:39:27.:39:32.

Kezia Dugdale will be talking about federalism in the UK. This is the

:39:33.:39:37.

Scottish Labour Party having federalised itself and broken away

:39:38.:39:41.

and is almost now a stand-alone party within the UK and it is now

:39:42.:39:47.

advocating federalism for the whole of the UK and they see that as their

:39:48.:39:52.

solution to nationalism. For a party that has gone from total dominance

:39:53.:39:57.

to a 19% share of the vote, is there any way back? You would say the only

:39:58.:40:02.

way is up and the only way back is policy and leadership. They feel

:40:03.:40:07.

incumbent with Corbyn at the UK leader that he is a track that in

:40:08.:40:12.

the polls, nationally and in Scotland. Interesting that he is

:40:13.:40:16.

speaking on Sunday at the tail end of the conference Werros you have

:40:17.:40:21.

Sadiq Khan, a popular, winning Labour politician, speaking on the

:40:22.:40:26.

Saturday -- whereas you have. And Tom Watson on the Saturday as well,

:40:27.:40:30.

they are the main act and Corbyn brings down the curtain on a late

:40:31.:40:35.

Sunday afternoon. Thank you for being the main act here, enjoy

:40:36.:40:40.

listening to the Lords. If you have a debate on Wednesday on social care

:40:41.:40:50.

funding. It is related to the business rate argument in the sense

:40:51.:40:54.

that government is evolving business rates and it is also deciding to pay

:40:55.:40:58.

for this crisis in adult social care, and it is crisis, by giving

:40:59.:41:04.

councils the right to judge precept. All of them will do that, but you

:41:05.:41:10.

only get the money for adult social care in places where they have low

:41:11.:41:12.

levels of need and high-value housing. Kingston-upon-Hull will get

:41:13.:41:23.

just over ?8 per person on that and Kingston upon Thames will get just

:41:24.:41:27.

over ?15. It will be handy in both areas but it nowhere plugs the need

:41:28.:41:32.

in areas with a high level of demand of people who need someone coming

:41:33.:41:36.

round to assist them. As the government underestimated the

:41:37.:41:40.

current crisis in social care and in fact demand in A in the NHS?

:41:41.:41:46.

Social care is a huge issue, in East Sussex we have the most 85-year-old

:41:47.:41:50.

in the country and I also chair the all-party group for ageing and all

:41:51.:41:53.

the people and how we do not just finance social care, that is a

:41:54.:41:56.

conversation that needs to be had... Should more money be put in? It is

:41:57.:42:03.

not just about more money, all the servers would be better but it is

:42:04.:42:07.

not just about that. Buick you accept it would be easier? It is

:42:08.:42:11.

also about making sure it is available in the right places. A lot

:42:12.:42:15.

of my councils are struggling to deliver the care and there are other

:42:16.:42:19.

issues around just financing, you are looking at model of social care

:42:20.:42:23.

and having a conversation on how to do it better. More people are living

:42:24.:42:27.

by themselves and longer and with multiple health issues and how we

:42:28.:42:32.

manage that. That is right but of course the King 's fund, Oxford

:42:33.:42:36.

University, aged UK, everybody who has looked at this says it is

:42:37.:42:40.

funding which is the major problem. Of course those other things are

:42:41.:42:43.

important but if you don't get the funding right, this will be a

:42:44.:42:46.

growing problem. How much would you put in? There is a gap of around ?6

:42:47.:42:52.

billion at the moment is what is needed and what is there. In terms

:42:53.:42:57.

of how you... What the government are doing, they are saying it is

:42:58.:43:01.

responsibility of local government and I think that is passing the

:43:02.:43:05.

buck. There needs to be a national solution, not a postcode lottery,

:43:06.:43:08.

but the debate on Wednesday is about the short-term and how councils get

:43:09.:43:14.

through without collapsing on social care. That is the end of our week

:43:15.:43:15.

ahead. MPs are due to debate US

:43:16.:43:17.

President Donald Trump's state visit to the UK later today after two

:43:18.:43:20.

petitions - one in favour, one against - got more than enough

:43:21.:43:23.

signatures to meet the threshold But at 4.30pm this afternoon,

:43:24.:43:25.

while MPs are having their say, a series of protests will be held

:43:26.:43:29.

across the country to And it's sure to be as vocal

:43:30.:43:32.

in the house as outside if these earlier exchanges are

:43:33.:43:37.

anything to go by... THE SPEAKER: An address by a foreign

:43:38.:43:41.

leader to both Houses of Parliament is not an automatic right,

:43:42.:43:46.

it is an earned honour. This certainly shouldn't

:43:47.:43:52.

be extended, any invitation to this House,

:43:53.:43:57.

to such a person as Donald Trump. The Queen has issued

:43:58.:44:04.

an invitation to Mr Trump He's the President

:44:05.:44:06.

of the free world. If we can entertain the President

:44:07.:44:09.

of China, we can entertain him. And we're joined from outside

:44:10.:44:12.

Parliament by the anti-Trump campaigner Dorothy Guerrero,

:44:13.:44:15.

and by Kate Andrews from Why shouldn't the democratically

:44:16.:44:27.

elected president of the United States visit the UK? I think that

:44:28.:44:35.

the group, stop coalition, or call for him not to be invited is

:44:36.:44:40.

supported by post to 2 million people who disagree with his

:44:41.:44:43.

politics and it is important to consider that although there is a

:44:44.:44:48.

strategic and historical relationship between the US and the

:44:49.:44:53.

UK, the current president of the most powerful country on the planet

:44:54.:44:58.

is showing a strong tendency for right-wing politics, right-wing

:44:59.:45:03.

conservatism, and promoting values that we are not promoting here or we

:45:04.:45:07.

don't agree with here. Even Theresa May has said she opposes the travel

:45:08.:45:12.

ban, one of his key policies, we have heard from Dorothy that he

:45:13.:45:15.

doesn't uphold the values that we hold dear in the UK so why should he

:45:16.:45:17.

come? I have sympathy for the petition you

:45:18.:45:29.

put forward. Trump's attempt at the travel ban... This is an issue dealt

:45:30.:45:33.

with the in the United States, judges have taken down this travel

:45:34.:45:36.

ban and Trump has met that opposition there. When the UK does

:45:37.:45:41.

host the President of the chop, that the President of Russia, it seems

:45:42.:45:45.

strange it would draw a red line an Donald Trump. I do not believe the

:45:46.:45:51.

US is a bigger human rights offender than China or Russia. Immigration

:45:52.:45:55.

policy and issues are not contained to Trump's America. Look at the dub

:45:56.:46:02.

scheme rolled back here in the UK. Only 300 child migrants are going to

:46:03.:46:07.

be allowed into the UK rather than 3,000. Look at programmes here. Why

:46:08.:46:12.

is there so much outrage by Donald Trump when we've welcomed other

:46:13.:46:17.

authoritarian leaders in the past. The Queen's entertained them and

:46:18.:46:21.

they've terrible human rights track records? I want to agree with what

:46:22.:46:28.

she mentioned the the protest is not just against Trump. We have take in

:46:29.:46:32.

consideration as well that the UK has already done what he's doing, we

:46:33.:46:40.

have that role in Calais, we've... So why stop him coming? It is

:46:41.:46:46.

important to express our disagreement and our worry that

:46:47.:46:54.

Trump, as the leader of the US, as the newly-elected president, poses a

:46:55.:47:01.

grave danger that he is encore anning right-wing toll ticks of hate

:47:02.:47:05.

and especially against migrants. Do you think he's a danger, Kate

:47:06.:47:09.

Andrews? Being right-wing is not a crime. You can't be stopped for

:47:10.:47:16.

coming because of that. Is he insighting hatred? If he is, he

:47:17.:47:20.

needs to be tried in the US for that. I don't think it's gone that

:47:21.:47:26.

far. That intense lively of the hatred yet. We need to see what

:47:27.:47:32.

plays out. In this post Brexit environment it would be problematic

:47:33.:47:35.

for Theresa May and the people to reject a huge trading partner and a

:47:36.:47:39.

country, forget the President, a country whose people share so many

:47:40.:47:44.

values with the UK. That special relationship cannot be destroyed

:47:45.:47:46.

simply because Donald Trump has been elected. I support the fact people

:47:47.:47:50.

want to protest. But controversial leaders have come to the UK before

:47:51.:47:54.

and will continue to come. It is important to have that debate. Thank

:47:55.:47:59.

you very much: Is this a good use of MPs time? It will be an interesting

:48:00.:48:06.

and passionate debate in Westminster Hall later today. O'Relationship

:48:07.:48:10.

with America has gone on for generations and will continue to go

:48:11.:48:15.

on. Was it a mistake to offer a state visit rather than a normal

:48:16.:48:19.

visit? It has been offered. It is what happens to the person who holds

:48:20.:48:22.

office of the president of the United States. Not as quickly as in

:48:23.:48:29.

this case? Our diplomatic relations are very person for our security and

:48:30.:48:34.

economy. We've been already delivered, the Prime Minister got

:48:35.:48:37.

assurances on conditions to NATO. That can only come about if you have

:48:38.:48:42.

good diplomatic relations. Is this just a waste of time? No, it is too

:48:43.:48:47.

early in his presidency. Nevertheless, I wouldn't go to the

:48:48.:48:53.

ram parts on that. I don't think he should address both Houses of

:48:54.:48:56.

Parliament. Nelson Mandela was afford that had privilege. Other

:48:57.:49:02.

people. It is an earned privilege. The Speaker was right in saying

:49:03.:49:08.

that. We've had the President in China, not necessarily addressing

:49:09.:49:11.

the Houses of Parliament but in terms of state visits. Hirahito...

:49:12.:49:20.

In terms of addressing both Houses of Parliament. Nelson Mandela do not

:49:21.:49:27.

fall into that bracket. One day, maybe Trump will have earned that

:49:28.:49:31.

privilege. But not yet. It is very early to have a state visit. No

:49:32.:49:37.

preview president has come this easterly in their career. I tend to

:49:38.:49:41.

agree with the lady who said the opposition to Trump and what he's

:49:42.:49:44.

done in America should be done there. Perhaps he should go to Swede

:49:45.:49:50.

and and find out what's happening there.

:49:51.:49:53.

And the BBC Parliament channel will be broadcasting the entire debate

:49:54.:49:55.

about President Trump's State Visit from 4.30pm.

:49:56.:49:58.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:49:59.:50:04.

Now, this year is the 50th anniversary of the part

:50:05.:50:07.

decriminalisation of homosexuality in the UK, and various events have

:50:08.:50:09.

been planned to mark the occasion, including a festival

:50:10.:50:11.

by the National Trust to highlight their properties that

:50:12.:50:14.

But is that something the National Trust should be doing?

:50:15.:50:17.

The writer James Delingpole doesn't think so.

:50:18.:50:19.

It was always my ambition to live in a nice old gaffe like this.

:50:20.:50:45.

Problem is, like most people, I can't afford it.

:50:46.:50:47.

That's where the National Trust comes in.

:50:48.:50:50.

Founded in 1895, it buys up architectural gems like this place,

:50:51.:50:55.

Sissinghurst Castle, and now they belong to all of us.

:50:56.:51:12.

I loved the architecture, the teas, the gentle folk volunteers dying

:51:13.:51:21.

When my kids were younger, I used to bring them

:51:22.:51:28.

to our great houses pretty much every other weekend.

:51:29.:51:30.

I gave up on the National Trust when it gave up on its day job.

:51:31.:51:45.

Instead of preserving our heritage, it started dabbling in politics.

:51:46.:51:49.

it started campaigning against global warming.

:51:50.:51:54.

It jumped on the political correctness bandwagon.

:51:55.:51:59.

Now, it's celebrating all things gay.

:52:00.:52:01.

This year, as I'm sure you'll know, marks the 50th anniversary

:52:02.:52:04.

of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality.

:52:05.:52:08.

So, the National Trust is staging a prejudice and pride season.

:52:09.:52:14.

Any National Trust property with a vaguely LGBT

:52:15.:52:17.

was the home of those legendary gardeners, writers and gay icons

:52:18.:52:26.

Harold Nicholson and Vita Sackville-West.

:52:27.:52:31.

has a fine and glorious tradition of stately homos.

:52:32.:52:38.

The trusts greatest director James Lees-Milne

:52:39.:52:41.

What exactly does sexuality have to do with heritage?

:52:42.:52:49.

Aren't there already enough right-on charities out there treating us

:52:50.:52:53.

like primary school children, telling us what to think

:52:54.:52:57.

about the politically correct matters of the moment?

:52:58.:53:02.

because the National Trust is meant to be stuffy and old fashioned.

:53:03.:53:10.

Not some trendy social justice warrior.

:53:11.:53:15.

Maybe if enough of us resign our memberships,

:53:16.:53:17.

We did ask the National Trust but they didn't want to put anyone up on

:53:18.:53:36.

this occasion. Isn't it with a hum bug. Their day job is to preserve

:53:37.:53:42.

and promote the history of these buildings, those what were lived in

:53:43.:53:47.

and enjoyed by gay people. I think I am ABBA hum bug kind of person. Can

:53:48.:53:53.

I apollingise for the awful tying of my scarf! We'll get loads of

:53:54.:53:59.

complaints I'm sure! There are loads of charities out there telling us

:54:00.:54:05.

how to live our lives. The National Trust is for us fuddy-duddies. White

:54:06.:54:09.

straight, middle class. That doesn't mean to say other people are not

:54:10.:54:14.

welcome but it needs to stick to its core addens rather than reaching out

:54:15.:54:17.

pointlessly to these fashionable causes. Is that what you think? I'm

:54:18.:54:26.

here to disappoint. I veries the a National Trust house this weekend,

:54:27.:54:29.

I'm not fuddy-duddy or old. I'm worried for you. You need to cheer

:54:30.:54:33.

up, man. It is important these properties show of the history of

:54:34.:54:37.

who lived there whether lesbian, gay or transgender. It is important the

:54:38.:54:42.

National Trust shows stories of the people who lived there who were

:54:43.:54:46.

oppressed and the heroes. It is important people of all backgrounds

:54:47.:54:52.

visit these properties. I'm worried that will upset you. I thought that

:54:53.:54:59.

from a member of the Tory Party. It is something all politicians come up

:55:00.:55:02.

with. They want to show they're with the modern age. That's fine. The

:55:03.:55:06.

National Trust is meant to the old fashioned. It is about heritage It

:55:07.:55:12.

is its duty to share history of people living in those homes

:55:13.:55:16.

regardless of backgrounds. I'm not oaring youing. I'm not say it is

:55:17.:55:23.

should hide the fact Vita was gay. To have a whole season of gayness,

:55:24.:55:29.

it shows me National Trust is going down an alley of the ghastly

:55:30.:55:34.

directors was who poor civil servant. Why not someone like Roy

:55:35.:55:41.

Strong rather than a pasted over civil servant. Alan? I wouldn't join

:55:42.:55:47.

an organisation that James hadn't managed to resign from! There you

:55:48.:55:51.

go. That's my approach. The way is open for you. The whole point is as

:55:52.:55:57.

Nusrat said being gay is considered normal. It is not about being trendy

:55:58.:56:04.

or politically direct. Maybe the -- politically correct. Some of the

:56:05.:56:08.

greatest house owners were gay. My friends. James Lees-Milne didn't

:56:09.:56:16.

make a big deal about it. But the history of sex withouty within these

:56:17.:56:20.

buildings, especially when you're talking about artists and writers,

:56:21.:56:26.

is part of it? I like seeing Harold and Vita's cottage. It was

:56:27.:56:31.

interesting. It is a detail rather than the he is sense of these ports.

:56:32.:56:40.

Isn't it National Trust just acured a novel from Vita Sackville-West's

:56:41.:56:43.

brother. Having acquired that for the nation, that's great, part of

:56:44.:56:47.

our literary heritage, they decided to do this. It doesn't go on

:56:48.:56:53.

forever. James made a wonderful pointed that he wished he hasn't

:56:54.:56:59.

resigned ten years ago about fox-hunting, he would resign now. I

:57:00.:57:04.

could resign at least once a week. Will you rejoin after the season?

:57:05.:57:10.

Really, this gay thing is only a peg. I'm more afound about climate

:57:11.:57:16.

change and nonsense like that. Do you think it's become too political

:57:17.:57:20.

in terms of getting involved in campaigns that are beyond one might

:57:21.:57:25.

say the remit? It might please James to know I'm not a paid-up member. It

:57:26.:57:31.

is my parent in laws. It is not anningation I would become a member

:57:32.:57:35.

of. It is an issue with the National Trust. How do they reach out to

:57:36.:57:39.

deefrn families up and down the countries so people can access their

:57:40.:57:43.

site and understand the fill breadth of their history. They need to get

:57:44.:57:48.

as many members as possible. Why not do this? Don't disyour core market.

:57:49.:57:53.

There are lots of people out there who haves are Iained their

:57:54.:57:57.

memberships in protest at this political stance it's taking. It

:57:58.:58:02.

doesn't need to be political. It alienate half its audience. We Helen

:58:03.:58:09.

talks about political... It is run by a woman who's ex-Seville servant.

:58:10.:58:15.

A Blairite civil servant. They are gettings rid of people like me! I'm

:58:16.:58:20.

getting rid of you now, James. Thank you for doing a soapbox. When we

:58:21.:58:25.

talked earlier about the trump visit. Ping did address both Houses

:58:26.:58:30.

of Parliament. There's just time before we go

:58:31.:58:31.

to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was which group does

:58:32.:58:34.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates think A) Schoolchildren, B) Robots,

:58:35.:58:37.

D) Pets or D) Graffiti artists? So, Alan and Nusrat,

:58:38.:58:42.

what's the correct answer? Thanks to Alan, Nusrat

:58:43.:58:44.

and all my guests. The one o'clock news is starting

:58:45.:58:47.

over on BBC One now. with all the big political stories

:58:48.:58:55.

of the day. To be in the Lords,

:58:56.:58:59.

you have to be punctual... literally have to slam

:59:00.:59:05.

the door in somebody's face. What right do they have

:59:06.:59:09.

to tell ME about my fashion sense.

:59:10.:59:14.

Jo Coburn is joined by Labour's Alan Johnson and Nusrat Ghani from the Conservative Party to review the day's politics. They look at the fate of the Brexit Bill in the House of Lords, as well as petitions in parliament for and against a state visit by US President Donald Trump.


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