03/05/2017 Daily Politics

Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

The General Election campaign is officially underway

The main parties are trading blows on tax and the NHS.

But hanging over it all, of course, is Brexit.

The Brexit Secretary says Britain will not pay 100 billion euros to

leave the EU after newspaper reports suggest it could be that high.

But the EU's chief negotiator says the UK must "settle its accounts",

although he insists he's not out to punish Britain.

Labour promises to suspend planned closures to hospitals

The Conservatives unveil a new poster

attacking Labour on tax and spending.

Yes, the campaign is well and truly up and running.

But before we get to the general election,

the parties face a big electoral test tomorrow

with local elections in England, Scotland and Wales.

We'll be speaking to the main parties.

The building is still very much there and open to the public.

will join us to explain what dissolution means.

And with us for the whole of the programme today

are the Business Minister, Margot James,

and the Shadow International Trade Secretary, Barry Gardiner.

Now, as of midnight last night, Parliament was dissolved

which means Margot and Barry no longer get to put MP after their

names and merely revert to being humble members of the public

But just because they don't have MP by their name,

it doesn't mean they aren't still politicians.

The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, says the UK will not pay 100 billion

euros to the EU as part of a so-called Brexit divorce bill.

Mr Davis was responding to a report in the Financial Times which says

it has calculated that the gross upfront bill has now risen

to 100 billion euros after new demands from France and Germany.

The UK government insists it will pay what it legally owes.

Let's hear what they have to say this morning.

Some have created the illusion that Brexit would have no material

Or that negotiations can be concluded quickly and painlessly.

Once again, there is no punishment, there is no Brexit bill,

the financial settlement is only about settling the accounts.

We will meet our international obligations.

We haven't even started negotiations yet.

We will engage on that in the negotiating chamber but this

50, 60, 100 billion - numbers plucked out

of the air are not ones we're going to be working with.

We're not going there as supplicants.

It's not for them to say, it's going to be done this way,

They have to obey the law, Article 50.

Article 50 says these things should be considered together.

Joining me now is Charles Grant from the Centre for European Reform -

it's a broadly pro-European think tank

although is not uncritical of the EU.

What is the commission up to floating figures of 100 billion

euros? By this rate, by the end of the month, it could be a trillion?

I'm not sure what they're up to. I think they're trying to shock the

British out of what they see as their complacency. There's some

concern, not just in the commission, but in France and Germany, who are

pushing the commission to take a tough line, that the British are a

bit out of touch with reality. The reality is if there is a dole,

Britain will pay a Brexit bill of some sort. It will have to hay grow

to pay something soon before they move on to talk about trade talks.

That's at reality. When they talk to people in London, they have the idea

the British don't get it. Aren't the commission out of tough thinking

they'd agree to anything approaching 100 billion euros? Fwfrment T says

the grows max is 100 billion. Based on... The FT being a good newspaper

has done some of its own cal you could youlations. Based on the

asumings we need to pay more for foreign policy and so on? In a

sense, are they playing into Mrs May's hands? This will only

strengthen her, is it not? The one person they will trust not to come

anywhere near a figure like this is her. Do they realise what they are

doing in Brussels? The way they see it is Britain's in a weak position.

If there's no deal at all, which is quite possible, we leave the EU

without an Article 50 settlement. Think of the impact op the familiar

markets, the real economy. They think the British, they may be

wrong, maybe Mrs May won't blink, if we leave without a deal, they

believe it will be worse for the British economy. If they believe

they're own figures which is a big if, they'd have a 100 billion hole

in their accounts. They don't. They have about a 17 euro billion hole in

their accounts. They are concerned about the next two years. After

Britain leaves, there's two years left in the budget cycle. They want

Britain to plug that. If that was the bottom line, then you're into

negotiations. Then you're closer to something the British Government may

well find acceptable to pay our obligations until the end of the

current budget process which goes beyond our leaving the EU in return

for a free trade deal. That's an negotiating position. There is a

circle if we're lucky that can be squared. If the British can claim

they're paying money into the budget and getting a good trade agreement

in return, they will pay something. Much less. Along the lines you

mentioned. The problem is the EU's got itself into this procedural

position. We won't talk about the future trade agreement until you

give on the budget. The talks will come together O'Later and hopefully

we'll get a deal. Do you give credence to this figure? I think

Charles is right. There is a lot of positioning going on. I think the

100 billion is made up of potential liabilities. It is even understand

within the commission and FT article what is happening here is there

could be returns to the UK. The question is, do you put that money

up front because it's a liability and then get it back if it doesn't

materialise as a liability? Or do you wait and see if it crystallises

and pay it at that time? The key thing is we will pay our

international obligations. Mr Davis, the Brexit Secretary said that.

Would a Labour Government considering paying anything like 100

billion? Look, the point here is this, we want the best possible

deal. The best possible deal is not simply about the 100 billion. The

best possible deal is a total package in which we have the

friction-free access into the internal market, that we have that

access, we continue to be able to do the maximum amount of trade with the

European Union. And actually, up front costs have to be offset

against the eventual benefit and returns to the UK exchequer that

increased revenues would bring. It is clear we'll have to pay

something, and it is in the billions? I think David Davis said

it was clear we won't walk away paying nothing. But it has to be

consistent with something we owe not some figure dreamt up at such an

early stage in the negotiations. There's a long way to go. We're just

at the beginning. There's a lot of talk, various figures have been

bandied about. We will pay what we will owe as part of a deal that the

Prime Minister will bring back, that will be the best possible deal we

can get. We need to see that in the round. There will be a lot of

argument over what we owe. That's what the arguments will be about.

Some people think it would be simply if we didn't go down this road. .

Road.let's listen to the leader of Ukip. Paul Nuttall.

What we want to know in Ukip is how much

As far as Ukip is concerned, we should not be paying

We believe the Prime Minister must make it clear to the Eurocrats

that she is prepared to walk away because if she does not,

they will walk all over her and Britain will get a rotten deal.

S she prebared to walk away? Not on that basis. We are not a country

which seeks to avoid our international obligations. We will

pay based on what we owe. Not some figure dreamt up before the

negotiations have started in bruise Emms. The point that rebutts Paul

Nuttall is simply this. It's not about, if they offer us a bad deal,

we should walk away. This the point Charles was getting at. Actually,

walking away, going on to WTO rules is the worst possible damage that

there could be to our economy in the long-term. We need a sustainable

settlement. That must come as a package the the difficulty, as

Charles said, is this fact the EU seems to have locked itself into a

separate track negotiation rather than a combined one. We need to get

that combined settlement back on track. People need to understand, it

is not simply about this figure of 100 billion. It's actually about

what do we eventually have as our trading future with the rest of the

world, including the EU? Charles, the Barnier approach says you need

to settle your accounts. That work involve coming to some amount. Then

we can look at the free trade deal or the kind of arrangement Britain

will have with Europe post-Brexit. But this's also the well known

Brussels principle nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Though

he wants to do them as two separate negotiations, the fact is we could

agree a sum of morn with Mr Barnier, but then, not be happy with the deal

that's on offer on trade post-Brexit and say, well, then, that bit we

agreed to is off the table. That's at Brussels approach? The way around

that is clear. It is what Barnier himself told me he wanted. The

British have to accept the principle of paying into the budget this

autumn. Accept some of the methodology of calculating the

figure. Not get to the exact figure. Move on with the trade talks. The

trade talks go well, come back to the details of the exact figure of

the budget talks. As a final package, it will be all be agreed

together. When you put it like that, you can see the beginnings of the

British Government agreeing to that? Yes, on the procedure and timing.

What the British Government wants is not completely compatible with what

the EU wants. With goodwill on all sides they can come together. This

100 billion figure plucked from thin air doesn't help. It will reinforce

those like nutsal who don't want a deal at all. It is foolish of the

commission. The council doesn't like this bring machineship from the

commission. Very interesting. Thank you. I think we'll see more of you,

Charles Grant. NHS, with a promise to suspend

closures of hospital services, including A and maternity units,

across England. The plan would include reviewing all

44 local healthcare "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", or STPs,

which were due to deliver ?22 billion worth of savings

for the NHS. But NHS bosses and ministers

have insisted the plans but about delivering

a more efficient service. Here's Labour's Shadow Health

Secretary, Jon Ashworth, What you're seeing in many

parts of the country, If things are going to change, The

public need to be involved. These S it. P plans, these Tory plans to

downgrade services whether at Dewsbury, Darlington or places like

Ealing in London, have not had the public involved in them whatsoever.

We cannot have a system where A's are downgraded, hospitals, closed.

Maternity units closed and the public are shut out of the decisions

and they have no say at all. I'm announcing today, a Labour

Government on its first day, will stop this hospital closure programme

and have a full review. Meanwhile, the Conservatives

have launched an attack on Labour, with a new poster claiming

the party's promises to date amount to a ?45 billion tax bombshell -

evoking memories of previous election campaigns dating back

to John Major's campaign in 1992. Labour dismissed the charge as

nonsense and insisted all their pledges were fully costed and would

be outlined in their manifesto. But Chancellor Philip Hammond

and Brexit Secretary David Davis Just when we need strong and stable

leadership for our economy and our country over the crucial

next five years as we negotiate our exit from the EU and chart

a new course in the years beyond, Jeremy Corbyn offers a chaotic

and high-risk gamble that would lead to higher taxes,

more borrowing and more debt. It's a gamble for which

we would all pay the price and that choice must be

uppermost in people's minds when they cast their votes

on June the 8th. Returning to the issues on health

and these STPs that Jon Ashworth says is all about downgrading

services and closing maternity units and A services. You are holding

those plans, does that mean you are also halting the attempt to make

these ?22 billion of efficiency savings the government has called

for? You are right to draw attention to the fact of what is driving this

programme. It was the government saying they were cutting ?30 billion

but would give ?8 billion and that is how you got the ?22 billion

supposedly efficiency savings. What we're saying is that the way in

which this has been done has failed to really properly account for the

wishes of local people. The consultations have been vacuous. And

I would challenge Margo to tell us what the statutory basis of these

STPs is. They are not a body that is established, they have no specific

title except for they are a footprint, they are called a

footprint which means they are accountable to nobody through the

democratic... Just to be clear, as you say, efficiency savings the

government called them, you call them cuts. And you would halt them?

What we're saying is we want to make those savings... You said you they

were cut but you want to make them? We want to make any savings we can

which are genuine efficiency savings but what is driving this programme

is the money and not the health need and it is local people that must be

involved in determining that health need and how it is catered for.

Going through that, there are plans in these plans put forward to

downgrade services including A department and maternity services

is. No, these plans are about putting services on a more

sustainable and safer footing and I want to take issue with what the

matter was -- in what Jon Ashworth... You are saying there are

no planned in any of these papers put forward at a local level to

downgrade any services or close any hospital units? There might be plans

to involve the closure of certain units in order to put the overall

service in an area on a more sustainable footing. In the Black

Country where I represent we have had some improvements to patient

care and hospital safety by consolidating certain services in

one particular hospital or another and if I might add, there is an

awful lot of services that are currently delivered in hospitals

which would be far better for patients if they were delivered in

the community. Do they have public support? There has been a

consultation... If I can do is finish what I'm saying, these plans

are not Tory plans as you heard in that film, there are plans that have

been developed within the NHS. They have the blessing of independent

health think the King 's fund, the independent medical director of the

NHS is behind them. This is not something that should be party

political and it is not something that the Conservative Party is set

up, these are NHS plans to make the service more sustainable in the

long-term. And is the point is not that nobody wants to see services

closed or closed or shut or downgraded in local area, but that

there are perfectly sensible plans to actually move services around so

that you might have to travel a bit further, yes, but you cannot have

every single small medical NHS unit offering every single treatment to

people across the country? In my own area in north-west London, at the

Labour government we did precisely that, we saw the point of

centralising trauma, we put that in one hospital in Northwick Park

Hospital and it has worked very well. Isn't that what these plans

are doing? And the public supported it. This is being driven by

unaccountable bodies and in north-west London you have

Hammersmith and Fulham refusing to even participate... I thought

doctors local medical staff... Hammersmith and Fulham and the whole

of the Ealing local authority is saying they will not participate in

the STPs because it is not taking account of local need and wishes. We

want to democratise the process. Let's talk about money because the

NHS is always a big issue in election campaigns. Labour have

proposed a series of, for many people, popular proposals, wanting a

pay increase for NHS staff, wanted to put into law the monetary number

of stop up the Ishant and running training for health professionals.

Would you back those proposals? You have dizzy them in the wider

context. Let me say that over the last seven years the NHS total spend

has increased year on year and that increase will be continuing... What

has it been per patient? That has not increased and numbers showed

that NHS England will face a sharp reduction of no point its present in

real terms per patient in the financial year 2018-19. Take your

point that overall it might have gone up but not per head. Certainly.

If you are saying it is a drop of 0.6%, think we have not seen the

manifesto yet, that is one proviso I would make and secondly even on a

per patient aces that is at least eight static situation that the

overall money spent is increasing. Can I come back to you on the

proposals put forward by Labour, the pay increase for staff who have been

on a pay freeze for a long period, putting into law this mandatory

minimum number of staff, do you support that? That's not correct.

The fact that there had been a pay freeze for all staff, that's not the

case. A lot of NHS staff have had their progression pay on average 83%

increase that it is not there to save... -- a 3% increase. I want an

affordable increase and if you look at the Labour plans, as the advert

that he put up showed, they are totally uncosted and unaffordable

and leave a huge black hole. How much will it cost? How much will

those things I have listed about a substantial pay increase for staff,

putting into law the mandatory minimum number of staff and patient

training, how much does it cost? The nurses bursaries, we accosted them

against the tax cuts that the Conservatives have given to the

wealthiest in our country. Corporation tax? In the manifesto,

every single one of the commitments we have made will be in detailed

costed figures. You have already said it will come from the increase

in corporation tax. The nurses bursaries will come from corporation

tax Idiakez allowance from inheritance tax, the 10,000 police

officers from capital gains tax, the educational maintenance back from

corporation tax, the student grants from corporation tax. What will be

corporation tax rate be? You will know that the corporation tax

actually be highest it was ever was in 1982... I just asked what it will

be. That will be in the manifesto exactly what the tax rate will be

but what the Conservatives have done is they have taken it down for an

average of over 30% to 19% and are looking to take it down to 17%. You

would put it back to 28%? We will say what we will do in the manifesto

but my point is that it has all been contained within those clear

envelopes. We're going to have to stop and move on.

Voters are going to the polls tomorrow in England, Scotland

There's plenty to get excited about - all the councils in Scotland

and Wales are up for grabs, as are 34 councils in England.

And as if that wasn't enough, there are also eight mayoral

Psephological geeks like Barry and Margot here can barely wait.

because first here's JoCo with all the details.

Local elections take place tomorrow in England, Scotland and Wales.

In England, there are elections for 34 councils

which are usually areas of strength for the Conservatives.

Large cities where Labour usually fare better

There are also eight mayoral elections in England

with voters in Greater Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield

In Scotland, every seat in all 32 councils have local elections,

many of them are affected by boundary changes.

Since these seats were last contested,

Labour has lost all but one of its Scottish MPs.

Meanwhile, every seat in each of Wales' 22 councils

All but one was last elected in 2012

in what was a very strong year for Labour, though independent

candidates currently hold a quarter of council seats.

In England, the Conservatives are predicted to increase their seat

That's according to the latest calculations by Professors

Colin Rallings and Michael Thrasher of Plymouth University.

Whilst Labour could be down by 75 council seats.

As for the other parties, the Lib Dems are predicted to gain

an extra 85 seats while Ukip could be starting a freefall.

They are predicted to lose 105 seats.

Although the proportional system makes big changes

the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats they hold

and the number of councils they control.

In Wales, Labour are predicted to lose 130 seats,

even more than the projected losses in England.

That is based on analysis of a recent Cardiff University poll

which predicted a notable swing to the Conservatives in Wales.

Well, let's talk more about the local elections.

People will vote tomorrow but most of the results will not come through

until Friday morning. Joining us from Glasgow

is the SNP's John Nicolson. But first let me come to Barry

Gardiner. I get the headline you most fear is Labour wipe-out in

Wales. I will wait until the voters have voted. It doesn't look good.

One of the important things you stressed in the introduction with

that on the cycle these are seats which are not in the metropolitan

areas where Labour is traditionally strong. Therefore one would expect,

didn't we did relatively well at the last time these seats were up for

grabs, that we would see a decline in our numbers. It now looks like

you won't do so well in Wales. And not just that, even more remarkable

if it is the Conservatives in Wales who are the insurgents, which must

surprise you. There are a lot of surprises in politics! That is a big

one! Brexit has changed a great deal in how the country thinks about

politics and what we're seeing is people might not be looking at these

simply as local elections. It is important when you're electing local

councillors who will be dealing with the basics of your own local town or

city, whether it is housing, rubbish collection, the local education

authority, social care, these are things you really need good local

councillors for. They do a fantastic job and people should focus their

attention on what these elections are about rather than trying to play

into the national picture. In Wales if they focus their attention on

what the administration run by Labour for 20 years as done, that

state education. Maybe this is what you are not doing so well. What is

it that Wales is behind England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in

every single area measured by the OECD rankings on reading, science

and mathematics? Wales is behind every other part of the UK but

education has been devolved and your party has won it for 20 years. As

you said, the Labour Party has been in control in Wales for a long

period of time but there are other services were actually Wales is

outperforming. Which ones? In certain measures of the health

service even though the Conservatives often like to pick of

the health service. There are a lot of bad comparisons. There are but

you cannot just pick and choose the bad ones. Any government compared

with any other will always have areas where it does less well.

Education of course is pretty fundamental, it was your body that

said education, education, education. I just want to say that I

totally disagree with Barry about the NHS in Wales. Labour have spent

less on the NHS in Wales and I urge people to consider their promises

for the rest of the UK in light of that fact... And outcomes are worse

because the whole body of health and waiting lists are longer, waiting

times are longer. I think it is not just education where the Welsh

Labour in government is failing their citizens, it is also in

health. It is no wonder the Conservatives are making inroads.

With talking about waiting times, there are 1.8 million people now

waiting longer than four hours in England for waiting times. When

Labour left office that was three and 50000 and I think the government

is on shaky ground if it starts talking about that problem. --

350,000. Before I go to John Nicolson, Gary Porter, chair of the

local government Association, said there was a gap of almost ?6 billion

in council funding and services would have to be cut, that is one of

your own Conservative peers saying that. People say a lot of things and

we will wait and see. What is wrong with what he has said? 6 billion! We

had to get greater efficiency in local government spending, local

government accounts for a huge portion of the national budget. In

order to reduce the budget deficit it would have been impossible to

have made the progress we have made without reducing spending at a local

level but the point about conservative run councils is that

they do deliver more efficient services in a more sustainable way

and there is a lot approved of that. John Nicholson joining us from

Glasgow. We had a few problems get youing you in. You are membering to

put 120 million extra into Scottish schools. Is that because you regret

cutting 4,000 teachers since you came to power? Well, you know the

First Minister said education is her top priority, she said she's

passionate about it and wants that to be one of the key areas in which

the Scottish Government is judged. So far, not so good then? You've

tumbled down the rankings as well in Scotland in the past ten years. You

cut teachers by 4,000 and on class sizes, you promised primary class

sizes of 18 They are now 23.5. It depends where you are in Scotland.

That's the average. In my own area, we've very good schooling. I go to

schools all the time. They're very impressive. I accept there are areas

of the country where clearly the schools have to be better. We know

that. We've a long and honourable tradition in Scotland about caring

for education. I think, to be fair, we have to remember that there have

been huge cuts from UK Central Government to the Scottish budgets.

Inevitably that filters down. Yes, but in the most recent settlement

from the Barnet formula, there was a rise of 1.5% in real terms of the

block grant that went to Scotland. But, when it came to passing money

on to the local councils, overall, you cut by 2.6% in real terms. So

you took these decisions within an overall emblem. That was your choice

in Scotland. There's been an overall cut. Nobody doubts this. Nobody

argues about the figures of 3 billion since the Conservative

Government came in on its own. That's a huge amount. There is a

danger everybody relies on political cliches, there are difficult

spending decisions to be made and so on. Clearly, local authorities have

to manage their finances effectively and efficiently. One of the reasons

that the Labour Party's likely to be defeated in Glasgow tomorrow after

so many decades in power is because there's a lot of poor management

locally. Everybody knows that. Barry, are you going to lose Glasgow

as well as Wales? I trust not. The point I would make... Most

commentators in Scotland think you are. Let's hope not. The point I

would wish to make about the debt and the way in which the Tories have

managed the economy is simply this. When we left office in 2010, just

after the global financial crisis, the national debt was ?979 billion.

Today, the debt with this Conservative Government is ?1.731

trillion. It's gone up by ?750 billion. So... It would have gone up

under any Government? No. Of course it would. Alistair Darling had a

four-year plan which would have resulted in massive debt. They said

they would cut the deficit. They never said they'd cut the debt. No,

they said Sh they'd managed debt down. Not increase it. What they

did, in fact, in terms of the deficit, they didn't manage to

reduce the deficit to store owe by 2015 as they promised. They then

said they'd do it by 2020. They failed. We're talking about local

government. Local government's not responsible for national debt. It

impacts on local government. The Government takes local decisions

which shunts the responsibility on. Let me finish by coming back to

Margot. The budget announced an extra two billion for social care.

How will that be paid for? The ?2 billion was announced. There's

agreement it is need in the social care. How will it be paid for? I

can't tell you that. I'm not the Chancellor. But it's Government

policy now. We are reducing the deficit. We've reduced it. I'm not

asking you about the deficit. I'm asking a simple question. You've

announced two billion to be paid for by national insurance. You've had to

resile from these NI increases. How will it be paid for? I'm not

answering the question to which I don't know the answer. The two

billion we're proposing to use to fund social care. You can see in the

bigger picture, we are managing the economy by reducing the deficit.

We've delayed the target date for balancing the book from 2020. We are

on a path to secure public finances. Very well, we have to stop there.

John Nicholson thank you. Sorry we'd prones in the beginning. Good to see

you. Now, Labour made impressive gains

in the Welsh local elections five years ago, including winning

a majority on Cardiff Council. But they're facing a tough

battle to retain control in the Welsh capital,

as Jenny Kumah reports. # Guide me, O thou great Jehovah,

pilgrim through this barren land #. Thousands of years ago,

the Romans ruled over Wales. They built a fort here

on the site of Cardiff Castle Now it's Labour who are the dominant

force in Welsh politics and five years ago they took control of

the City Council from the Lib Dems. The question is, can

they hold onto power? Since their victory here,

the Labour Party has seen infighting, resignations

and by-election defeats. We are fighting for

every single vote. We know that it is going to be

a very difficult election across the country and we're

going to make sure we get on every single doorstep over the next few

days up until that election to make sure we have that conversation

about what we've achieved here in Cardiff and what we want

to achieve going forward. The Liberal Democrats feel

the timing of the so-called Brexit general election helps

their local campaign, They recently won this ward

from Labour in a by-election and their aim is to take back

control of the council. We've been winning more by-elections

across the UK than any other party and also we are the fastest-growing

party now in the UK. Just in the last week or so we have

hit 100,000 members. The Conservatives are the third

largest party on Cardiff Council. The Prime Minister's recent visit

to South Wales I think there's a sort of feeling

there's a complacency that they're going to return members

and MPs on a regular basis. I think they'd like to see a change

and we represent that. Plaid Cymru recently

took a ward from Labour in the by-election and they're

hoping to make more gains. What we have in Wales is a one-party

state and people want change and that's why you look around here,

you see these signs, Ukip claimed they were a big part

of the political landscape in Wales after they won seven seats

on the Welsh Assembly last year. They currently don't have any

seats on Cardiff Council but they are fielding a small number

of candidates to try to break through

in this pro-EU city. So, that's where the parties stand

but how much do the candidates know about the services

the council provides? For example, the charge

for disposing of six large Do you know the exact cost

if it is six bulky items? We want to reopen recycling

centres and not charge With a Plaid Cymru Council

that would be free! We would abolish that charge

for collecting bulky waste items. How much would it cost

you to dispose of them? So varying degrees of knowledge

there but one thing all the candidates are

aware of is that the results from this week's local elections

could provide clues on how the general election

will turn out. And there is a full list

of the candidates in the Welsh local elections on the Wales section

of the BBC website: bbc.co.uk/Wales. Joining me now is Eluned Parrott

from the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Rhun ap Iorwerth

from Plaid Cymru. Welcome to both of you. Run, Plaid

Cymru are targeting Labour areas. Labour claimed victory in the

Cardiff elects in 2012. Why has the public mood changed in favour of you

since then? There's clear evidence not just in Cardiff but all across

Wales. Plaid Cymru has been strong in Wales. We are confident we'll

make gains this time round. What's the evidence? The evidence as you

would know from following many elections is what you're hearing on

the doorstep the length and breadth of country. People are sick and

tired of Labour. I understand why they've been perhaps loyal to the

Labour Party which may run in their blood and has done in their families

for generations. We have an impotent and incompetent Labour Party. The

other side of this pincer movement that's threatening Wales at the

moment is a vicious Conservative Party. With its threats to public

services. We've Plaid Cymru in the middle of that preparing to defend

Wales. This is a key time in our national development. We need to

look after our communities. Elunud, you lost control of the council to

Labour in 2012. You only have one Assembly member in Wales and one

Welsh MP. You're starting from quite a low point? We are stating a very

strong fightback. We've doubled our membership in the Vale of Glamorgan

over the last year. We are seeing real progress when we're going to

have conversations on the doorsteps. We are the second largest party on

Cardiff Council. We are the only party other than Labour to have a

full slate of candidates. We believe we can do very well. Both Plaid

Cymru and yourselves are pushing an anti-Brexit message. That's clear

nationally. Do you accept if you rely too much on a Remain message

you may appeal to voters in Cardiff but not across the rest of the Wales

and you'll split each other's votes? We have to be careful. In terms of

local elections it is a balance between national ideals and things

we believe in that people want to talk to us about and those very

local messages. Here in Cardiff, what we see in the Labour Party is a

micro cosp of what we see at a national level. The parties are

fighting each other and are too bitsy to fight for the city. How

central is at anti-Brexit message when you're out campaigning? It is

the most important thing people talk to us about. In Cardiff or outside

Cardiff. Across Wales, Leave was more dominant that Remain. I've been

canvassing in the Ka difficult and the Vale. I know my colleagues

across Wales are reporting the same things back to the Welsh party.

Brexit is really, really important. But actually, for local elections we

must focus on local issues. Getting services right for the people.

Making sure people have the local services they deserve. Run, are you

worried you'll cancel each other out with such a similar message when it

comes to the issue of Brexit? To be honest with you. Every respect to

Eluned, a believe the Liberal Democrats are largely sidelined in

this election in Wales. Evidence would show you that. Not in the

Cardiff Council elections. You talk about Brexit. I didn't want us to be

leaving the EU. What we have now, is plied come rye standing up to ghee

fend Wales, pointing out to people we have a bad Theresa May Brexit

being brewed by the Conservative Party at Westminster. Whilst we have

to seek the best possible departure from the EU for Wales which is a net

exporter to the EU. Hundreds of thousands of jobs dependent on that.

Holyhead port in my constituency dependent on a free border between

Wales and Ireland. If we can show people as I believe we are, that we

will look after the Welsh National interest defending Wales at every

possible junk door, I think people will trust to us fight and negotiate

the best deals for Wales. There hasn't been evidence of that so far.

Leave was dominant? You're right. It was 50/50 more or less in my

constituency. What we want people now is to realise in voting Leave,

they didn't take leave of their acceptses. We need to make sure

Welsh interests are protected. Will both of you be prepared to form an

administration, work together as you did in 2008? It is difficult to

predict. Would you work together? It is possible in local areas we will

work with other parties. At this point in time, we need to focus on

the elections. We're fighting a campaign looking at local services,

making promises to right things like the bomb site that is our pub

station in the city centre. To make sure people have the services they

expect from their local council. We understand Plaid Cymru will be

frustrated this general election has been called at the same time as a

local election. In fairness to Plaid Cymru they get squeezed in UK-wide

elections. They're not seen as being as relevant in a general election as

in a local or Assembly context. The truth is, parties who are willing to

make things work should be able to talk to one another. Do you agree

with that? In terms of working together in an administration in

I'm confident Plaid Cymru can get the best ever election result. I

would remind that the Lib Dems are currently in government with this

failed Labour government that has been running health and education in

Wales since 1999 and I think people are starting to see through that.

What we need is Plaid Cymru having as much influence as possible. Thank

you. So, it's a busy day

here in Westminster, Fortunately Ellie is on hand

with her election desk of news. No desk today but I have gazebos and

it can mean only one thing on a big set piece here in Westminster and

this afternoon Theresa May is off to see the Queen for the formal stuff

but as of one minute past midnight last night Parliament was dissolved

and there are no many -- no more MPs, just candidates which means the

campaign is officially underway and these are a few of the things that

have been happening. The Lib Dems have been out

in Oxfordshire, driving fear For the local economy

it will be a disaster. They are feeling cheery

after announcing party membership is at a record high

of nearly 102,000. Don't tell people who voted Leave

that they didn't know The Greens opted for a long-term

strategy of winning over I'm going to try and pitch it

to everyone, it's going to be quite The co-leader, Jonathan Bartley,

went back to school to make the case for emergency intervention

into air pollution. Ukip said international aid should

be cut to 0.2% of national income rather than 0.7%,

and the BBC licence fee should be At one point yesterday it looked

like the SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, was about to steal

someone's phone right Later today she's doing some local

election campaigning in Toryglen, which is a real place in Glasgow

where she hopes there won't be On the campaign trail yesterday,

Theresa May got a little peckish and committed one of the cardinal

sins in electioneering, This morning, Ed Miliband,

who himself had an unfortunate incident with a bacon sandwich

in his last campaign, tweeted His conciliatory tone may have

something to do with it being the anniversary

of the EdStone, his manifesto monolith unveiled two years ago

today that set in stone his party's election pledges and

universal ridicule. But, over it now, he showed

yesterday just how dedicated he is to his constituents,

by mowing the lawn. Multitalented! So Parliament has

been dissolved but what does that mean?

We are joined now by the Clerk of the House of Commons,

and their main Constitutional Advisor, David Natzler.

So what does it mean? It means that Parliament no longer in this --

exists as an institution. It dissolved at one it past midnight

but of course it still exist as a building and as an employer. The

2300 House of Commons employees are still hard at work. So not a holiday

for everybody? I'm afraid it doesn't! They might be able to take

a break if they can take annual leave at some time but the building

itself is, if anything, more open than usual. We have opened up days

we would not normally be open to the public because the houses would be

sitting, for public access, and in particular for younger people so we

have an offer on if your viewers are watching! Anybody aged 18 to 24,

which is not anybody here! They can visit for free. So this is the time

to go. It is and they will be harassed by us to register if they

have not registered. You are doing a public service. I hope so. It was

dissolved at one minute past midnight, is that unusual? No, it

just happens to be the beginning of the day on which it dissolves so

there is a lot of funny interpretation about these rules as

former members of Parliament will know, exactly when it is that there

passes get disabled meaning they cannot get in, how long they had to

clear their offices, and that applies to the hard-pressed staff,

all of whom were taken by surprise I assume. I think you can confidently

say that most people were taken aback by the snap election. Now they

are not MPs but candidates, are they across the rules, do they know what

happened and behave accordingly in terms of not overstepping the mark

as they would when they are MPs? Facilities and computers. They never

overstepped the mark when they are MPs, we would not allow it! There

are rules which are broadly the same as they were in 2015 so only two

years ago and it comes about regularly come like Saturdays. This

is the tenth dissolution I have experienced, and it is not an

amazing event, but the rules are quite complex and we have changed

one important aspect in response to requests from members and others is

that they and their staff will still have access to our network, that is

Thursday and e-mails, but they only use it for sort of hangover

parliamentary activities and not for political or campaigning purposes.

As last they can also pick is a higher charge if they want to keep

on using the equipment we lend them, the hardware, which they can use for

electrical but -- electoral purposes but they take charge. It is not I

who oversees what they do or anybody else, they must oversee but

ultimately in this democratic system there is no shortage of people

keeping an eye on what they do in a sometimes critical spirit. The House

of Lords is not elected. Could they not continue working and the thing?

Not when Parliament is dissolved, the Marnoch summons Parliament and

then by statute Parliament is dissolved -- the monarch. But peers

are slightly different, different in many ways! But obviously they don't

have to go out and campaign to be re-elected. But Parliament as an

institution, it is not just the Commons. It is like term has ended

at school and that is it. So school is out for you two in one sense!

Have you got work to finish in Parliament before you stop? We have

been really trying to finish up all the casework we had outstanding from

our surgeries before dissolution. There are a couple that we are

trying to squeeze this morning and I think I might have to ask David...

For an extension? I won't get that! But how I can do that, whether it is

as Barry Gardiner even not as an MP. You are now Barry Gardiner not an MP

and your e-mails will say that with obligatory text at the bottom and

also your social media is the same. I changed that last night! And it is

all over for you? Almost although the odd thing is we are still

ministers until a new government is formed but it is important we don't

engage in work or make announcement that might affect the election so it

is very careful. I shall be full-time campaigning for a good

result in the West Midlands Mayra election for Andy Street tomorrow.

Thank you very much. Let's return now to the local

elections which take place tomorrow. I'm joined by Peter Reeve from Ukip

and Jonathan Bartley from the Green party.

It looks like this will be a car crash for Ukip tomorrow. Not at all,

we stand by the way our councillors have worked and are very proud of

everything they have done and it will be a tough election for us. In

2030 is the equivalent election was our best election result ever -- in

2013. We still have 500 councillors, 147 of those being elected this done

so no matter what the result, we will still have at least 350

councillors so you cup that Ukip in local council goes on strong. The

calculations from Plymouth University based on by-election

results suggest you will lose over 100 seats. One of the great things

about Ukip, whether or not we hold seats in parliament or elsewhere, we

influence and we lead the national debate and we do it locally often

but in terms of national politics Ukip has led the way for several

years, leading the national agenda. I hope many of our councillors get

returned and I expect them to because they are some of the hardest

working people in politics in the country. Many of them are cleaning

public toilets, clean up the street, quitting the roads, doing a

practical job and would big comments we have at it one of the big

differences between Ukip and other parties is not only do our

councillors work harder but because we have no whip, they genuinely

represent their constituents and not told how to vote by their parties

like the other parties. Indeed, you you have a long record of defections

and revolts! Jonathan Bartley, you are contesting more council feeds

than in the past but what would a good result look like? -- council

seats. There is a slow and steady build and we are fielding 500 woody

for more candidates than 2013 and are hoping to make gains in the

north-east and the West Midlands which would not necessarily be

strong territory for us and in the Isle of Wight. We have recently

taken a seat in by-elections of Ukip and labour and we are looking to

build on that. The more people see of us, the more they like the

Greens. We don't want to pick and implode like you we want to build

steadily. You say the more people see you the more they like you but

your party was in charge of Brighton council where you introduced gender

neutral council forms and bullet and meat free Mondays in the staff

canteen. How scandalous! But you had a problem getting the rubbish

collected which seems to be but a fundamental issue for a party that

calls itself green. The issue of course was labour and the

Conservatives getting together to impose an austerity budget. We were

not in overall control, a minor key demonstration in Brighton so we got

a lot done, introducing the living wage and more affordable housing and

a 20 mph speed limit which cut casualties in five months by 19% and

collisions by 20%, things that change lives. That is what local

elections tend to be determined by, if you don't deliver on the ground.

And when we are not in control and Labour and Conservatives were

imposed austerity there was nothing you can do. And what about your

record in local government? You won control of Thanet District Council

in Kent in 2015 but then lost control because your councillors

kept resigning and defecting. We are still in control of that council and

we are proud of what they have done. You lost full control. When you look

at their output, when that council was run by conservatives and Labour

it was described by the LGA as toxic. You could have turned it

around and the last LGA report praised Chris Wells and the

leadership team and said that Ukip have the Council in good hands. Even

today we are talking about reopening Manston airport which is something

Labour and the Conservatives gave up and we will build a snag and would

build houses all over. We will have to leave it, I thank you both.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

I'll will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big