03/05/2017 Daily Politics


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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.


The General Election campaign is officially underway


The main parties are trading blows on tax and the NHS.


But hanging over it all, of course, is Brexit.


The Brexit Secretary says Britain will not pay 100 billion euros to


leave the EU after newspaper reports suggest it could be that high.


But the EU's chief negotiator says the UK must "settle its accounts",


although he insists he's not out to punish Britain.


Labour promises to suspend planned closures to hospitals


The Conservatives unveil a new poster


attacking Labour on tax and spending.


Yes, the campaign is well and truly up and running.


But before we get to the general election,


the parties face a big electoral test tomorrow


with local elections in England, Scotland and Wales.


We'll be speaking to the main parties.


The building is still very much there and open to the public.


will join us to explain what dissolution means.


And with us for the whole of the programme today


are the Business Minister, Margot James,


and the Shadow International Trade Secretary, Barry Gardiner.


Now, as of midnight last night, Parliament was dissolved


which means Margot and Barry no longer get to put MP after their


names and merely revert to being humble members of the public


But just because they don't have MP by their name,


it doesn't mean they aren't still politicians.


The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, says the UK will not pay 100 billion


euros to the EU as part of a so-called Brexit divorce bill.


Mr Davis was responding to a report in the Financial Times which says


it has calculated that the gross upfront bill has now risen


to 100 billion euros after new demands from France and Germany.


The UK government insists it will pay what it legally owes.


Let's hear what they have to say this morning.


Some have created the illusion that Brexit would have no material


Or that negotiations can be concluded quickly and painlessly.


Once again, there is no punishment, there is no Brexit bill,


the financial settlement is only about settling the accounts.


We will meet our international obligations.


We haven't even started negotiations yet.


We will engage on that in the negotiating chamber but this


50, 60, 100 billion - numbers plucked out


of the air are not ones we're going to be working with.


We're not going there as supplicants.


It's not for them to say, it's going to be done this way,


They have to obey the law, Article 50.


Article 50 says these things should be considered together.


Joining me now is Charles Grant from the Centre for European Reform -


it's a broadly pro-European think tank


although is not uncritical of the EU.


What is the commission up to floating figures of 100 billion


euros? By this rate, by the end of the month, it could be a trillion?


I'm not sure what they're up to. I think they're trying to shock the


British out of what they see as their complacency. There's some


concern, not just in the commission, but in France and Germany, who are


pushing the commission to take a tough line, that the British are a


bit out of touch with reality. The reality is if there is a dole,


Britain will pay a Brexit bill of some sort. It will have to hay grow


to pay something soon before they move on to talk about trade talks.


That's at reality. When they talk to people in London, they have the idea


the British don't get it. Aren't the commission out of tough thinking


they'd agree to anything approaching 100 billion euros? Fwfrment T says


the grows max is 100 billion. Based on... The FT being a good newspaper


has done some of its own cal you could youlations. Based on the


asumings we need to pay more for foreign policy and so on? In a


sense, are they playing into Mrs May's hands? This will only


strengthen her, is it not? The one person they will trust not to come


anywhere near a figure like this is her. Do they realise what they are


doing in Brussels? The way they see it is Britain's in a weak position.


If there's no deal at all, which is quite possible, we leave the EU


without an Article 50 settlement. Think of the impact op the familiar


markets, the real economy. They think the British, they may be


wrong, maybe Mrs May won't blink, if we leave without a deal, they


believe it will be worse for the British economy. If they believe


they're own figures which is a big if, they'd have a 100 billion hole


in their accounts. They don't. They have about a 17 euro billion hole in


their accounts. They are concerned about the next two years. After


Britain leaves, there's two years left in the budget cycle. They want


Britain to plug that. If that was the bottom line, then you're into


negotiations. Then you're closer to something the British Government may


well find acceptable to pay our obligations until the end of the


current budget process which goes beyond our leaving the EU in return


for a free trade deal. That's an negotiating position. There is a


circle if we're lucky that can be squared. If the British can claim


they're paying money into the budget and getting a good trade agreement


in return, they will pay something. Much less. Along the lines you


mentioned. The problem is the EU's got itself into this procedural


position. We won't talk about the future trade agreement until you


give on the budget. The talks will come together O'Later and hopefully


we'll get a deal. Do you give credence to this figure? I think


Charles is right. There is a lot of positioning going on. I think the


100 billion is made up of potential liabilities. It is even understand


within the commission and FT article what is happening here is there


could be returns to the UK. The question is, do you put that money


up front because it's a liability and then get it back if it doesn't


materialise as a liability? Or do you wait and see if it crystallises


and pay it at that time? The key thing is we will pay our


international obligations. Mr Davis, the Brexit Secretary said that.


Would a Labour Government considering paying anything like 100


billion? Look, the point here is this, we want the best possible


deal. The best possible deal is not simply about the 100 billion. The


best possible deal is a total package in which we have the


friction-free access into the internal market, that we have that


access, we continue to be able to do the maximum amount of trade with the


European Union. And actually, up front costs have to be offset


against the eventual benefit and returns to the UK exchequer that


increased revenues would bring. It is clear we'll have to pay


something, and it is in the billions? I think David Davis said


it was clear we won't walk away paying nothing. But it has to be


consistent with something we owe not some figure dreamt up at such an


early stage in the negotiations. There's a long way to go. We're just


at the beginning. There's a lot of talk, various figures have been


bandied about. We will pay what we will owe as part of a deal that the


Prime Minister will bring back, that will be the best possible deal we


can get. We need to see that in the round. There will be a lot of


argument over what we owe. That's what the arguments will be about.


Some people think it would be simply if we didn't go down this road. .


Road.let's listen to the leader of Ukip. Paul Nuttall.


What we want to know in Ukip is how much


As far as Ukip is concerned, we should not be paying


We believe the Prime Minister must make it clear to the Eurocrats


that she is prepared to walk away because if she does not,


they will walk all over her and Britain will get a rotten deal.


S she prebared to walk away? Not on that basis. We are not a country


which seeks to avoid our international obligations. We will


pay based on what we owe. Not some figure dreamt up before the


negotiations have started in bruise Emms. The point that rebutts Paul


Nuttall is simply this. It's not about, if they offer us a bad deal,


we should walk away. This the point Charles was getting at. Actually,


walking away, going on to WTO rules is the worst possible damage that


there could be to our economy in the long-term. We need a sustainable


settlement. That must come as a package the the difficulty, as


Charles said, is this fact the EU seems to have locked itself into a


separate track negotiation rather than a combined one. We need to get


that combined settlement back on track. People need to understand, it


is not simply about this figure of 100 billion. It's actually about


what do we eventually have as our trading future with the rest of the


world, including the EU? Charles, the Barnier approach says you need


to settle your accounts. That work involve coming to some amount. Then


we can look at the free trade deal or the kind of arrangement Britain


will have with Europe post-Brexit. But this's also the well known


Brussels principle nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Though


he wants to do them as two separate negotiations, the fact is we could


agree a sum of morn with Mr Barnier, but then, not be happy with the deal


that's on offer on trade post-Brexit and say, well, then, that bit we


agreed to is off the table. That's at Brussels approach? The way around


that is clear. It is what Barnier himself told me he wanted. The


British have to accept the principle of paying into the budget this


autumn. Accept some of the methodology of calculating the


figure. Not get to the exact figure. Move on with the trade talks. The


trade talks go well, come back to the details of the exact figure of


the budget talks. As a final package, it will be all be agreed


together. When you put it like that, you can see the beginnings of the


British Government agreeing to that? Yes, on the procedure and timing.


What the British Government wants is not completely compatible with what


the EU wants. With goodwill on all sides they can come together. This


100 billion figure plucked from thin air doesn't help. It will reinforce


those like nutsal who don't want a deal at all. It is foolish of the


commission. The council doesn't like this bring machineship from the


commission. Very interesting. Thank you. I think we'll see more of you,


Charles Grant. NHS, with a promise to suspend


closures of hospital services, including A and maternity units,


across England. The plan would include reviewing all


44 local healthcare "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", or STPs,


which were due to deliver ?22 billion worth of savings


for the NHS. But NHS bosses and ministers


have insisted the plans but about delivering


a more efficient service. Here's Labour's Shadow Health


Secretary, Jon Ashworth, What you're seeing in many


parts of the country, If things are going to change, The


public need to be involved. These S it. P plans, these Tory plans to


downgrade services whether at Dewsbury, Darlington or places like


Ealing in London, have not had the public involved in them whatsoever.


We cannot have a system where A's are downgraded, hospitals, closed.


Maternity units closed and the public are shut out of the decisions


and they have no say at all. I'm announcing today, a Labour


Government on its first day, will stop this hospital closure programme


and have a full review. Meanwhile, the Conservatives


have launched an attack on Labour, with a new poster claiming


the party's promises to date amount to a ?45 billion tax bombshell -


evoking memories of previous election campaigns dating back


to John Major's campaign in 1992. Labour dismissed the charge as


nonsense and insisted all their pledges were fully costed and would


be outlined in their manifesto. But Chancellor Philip Hammond


and Brexit Secretary David Davis Just when we need strong and stable


leadership for our economy and our country over the crucial


next five years as we negotiate our exit from the EU and chart


a new course in the years beyond, Jeremy Corbyn offers a chaotic


and high-risk gamble that would lead to higher taxes,


more borrowing and more debt. It's a gamble for which


we would all pay the price and that choice must be


uppermost in people's minds when they cast their votes


on June the 8th. Returning to the issues on health


and these STPs that Jon Ashworth says is all about downgrading


services and closing maternity units and A services. You are holding


those plans, does that mean you are also halting the attempt to make


these ?22 billion of efficiency savings the government has called


for? You are right to draw attention to the fact of what is driving this


programme. It was the government saying they were cutting ?30 billion


but would give ?8 billion and that is how you got the ?22 billion


supposedly efficiency savings. What we're saying is that the way in


which this has been done has failed to really properly account for the


wishes of local people. The consultations have been vacuous. And


I would challenge Margo to tell us what the statutory basis of these


STPs is. They are not a body that is established, they have no specific


title except for they are a footprint, they are called a


footprint which means they are accountable to nobody through the


democratic... Just to be clear, as you say, efficiency savings the


government called them, you call them cuts. And you would halt them?


What we're saying is we want to make those savings... You said you they


were cut but you want to make them? We want to make any savings we can


which are genuine efficiency savings but what is driving this programme


is the money and not the health need and it is local people that must be


involved in determining that health need and how it is catered for.


Going through that, there are plans in these plans put forward to


downgrade services including A department and maternity services


is. No, these plans are about putting services on a more


sustainable and safer footing and I want to take issue with what the


matter was -- in what Jon Ashworth... You are saying there are


no planned in any of these papers put forward at a local level to


downgrade any services or close any hospital units? There might be plans


to involve the closure of certain units in order to put the overall


service in an area on a more sustainable footing. In the Black


Country where I represent we have had some improvements to patient


care and hospital safety by consolidating certain services in


one particular hospital or another and if I might add, there is an


awful lot of services that are currently delivered in hospitals


which would be far better for patients if they were delivered in


the community. Do they have public support? There has been a


consultation... If I can do is finish what I'm saying, these plans


are not Tory plans as you heard in that film, there are plans that have


been developed within the NHS. They have the blessing of independent


health think the King 's fund, the independent medical director of the


NHS is behind them. This is not something that should be party


political and it is not something that the Conservative Party is set


up, these are NHS plans to make the service more sustainable in the


long-term. And is the point is not that nobody wants to see services


closed or closed or shut or downgraded in local area, but that


there are perfectly sensible plans to actually move services around so


that you might have to travel a bit further, yes, but you cannot have


every single small medical NHS unit offering every single treatment to


people across the country? In my own area in north-west London, at the


Labour government we did precisely that, we saw the point of


centralising trauma, we put that in one hospital in Northwick Park


Hospital and it has worked very well. Isn't that what these plans


are doing? And the public supported it. This is being driven by


unaccountable bodies and in north-west London you have


Hammersmith and Fulham refusing to even participate... I thought


doctors local medical staff... Hammersmith and Fulham and the whole


of the Ealing local authority is saying they will not participate in


the STPs because it is not taking account of local need and wishes. We


want to democratise the process. Let's talk about money because the


NHS is always a big issue in election campaigns. Labour have


proposed a series of, for many people, popular proposals, wanting a


pay increase for NHS staff, wanted to put into law the monetary number


of stop up the Ishant and running training for health professionals.


Would you back those proposals? You have dizzy them in the wider


context. Let me say that over the last seven years the NHS total spend


has increased year on year and that increase will be continuing... What


has it been per patient? That has not increased and numbers showed


that NHS England will face a sharp reduction of no point its present in


real terms per patient in the financial year 2018-19. Take your


point that overall it might have gone up but not per head. Certainly.


If you are saying it is a drop of 0.6%, think we have not seen the


manifesto yet, that is one proviso I would make and secondly even on a


per patient aces that is at least eight static situation that the


overall money spent is increasing. Can I come back to you on the


proposals put forward by Labour, the pay increase for staff who have been


on a pay freeze for a long period, putting into law this mandatory


minimum number of staff, do you support that? That's not correct.


The fact that there had been a pay freeze for all staff, that's not the


case. A lot of NHS staff have had their progression pay on average 83%


increase that it is not there to save... -- a 3% increase. I want an


affordable increase and if you look at the Labour plans, as the advert


that he put up showed, they are totally uncosted and unaffordable


and leave a huge black hole. How much will it cost? How much will


those things I have listed about a substantial pay increase for staff,


putting into law the mandatory minimum number of staff and patient


training, how much does it cost? The nurses bursaries, we accosted them


against the tax cuts that the Conservatives have given to the


wealthiest in our country. Corporation tax? In the manifesto,


every single one of the commitments we have made will be in detailed


costed figures. You have already said it will come from the increase


in corporation tax. The nurses bursaries will come from corporation


tax Idiakez allowance from inheritance tax, the 10,000 police


officers from capital gains tax, the educational maintenance back from


corporation tax, the student grants from corporation tax. What will be


corporation tax rate be? You will know that the corporation tax


actually be highest it was ever was in 1982... I just asked what it will


be. That will be in the manifesto exactly what the tax rate will be


but what the Conservatives have done is they have taken it down for an


average of over 30% to 19% and are looking to take it down to 17%. You


would put it back to 28%? We will say what we will do in the manifesto


but my point is that it has all been contained within those clear


envelopes. We're going to have to stop and move on.


Voters are going to the polls tomorrow in England, Scotland


There's plenty to get excited about - all the councils in Scotland


and Wales are up for grabs, as are 34 councils in England.


And as if that wasn't enough, there are also eight mayoral


Psephological geeks like Barry and Margot here can barely wait.


because first here's JoCo with all the details.


Local elections take place tomorrow in England, Scotland and Wales.


In England, there are elections for 34 councils


which are usually areas of strength for the Conservatives.


Large cities where Labour usually fare better


There are also eight mayoral elections in England


with voters in Greater Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield


In Scotland, every seat in all 32 councils have local elections,


many of them are affected by boundary changes.


Since these seats were last contested,


Labour has lost all but one of its Scottish MPs.


Meanwhile, every seat in each of Wales' 22 councils


All but one was last elected in 2012


in what was a very strong year for Labour, though independent


candidates currently hold a quarter of council seats.


In England, the Conservatives are predicted to increase their seat


That's according to the latest calculations by Professors


Colin Rallings and Michael Thrasher of Plymouth University.


Whilst Labour could be down by 75 council seats.


As for the other parties, the Lib Dems are predicted to gain


an extra 85 seats while Ukip could be starting a freefall.


They are predicted to lose 105 seats.


Although the proportional system makes big changes


the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats they hold


and the number of councils they control.


In Wales, Labour are predicted to lose 130 seats,


even more than the projected losses in England.


That is based on analysis of a recent Cardiff University poll


which predicted a notable swing to the Conservatives in Wales.


Well, let's talk more about the local elections.


People will vote tomorrow but most of the results will not come through


until Friday morning. Joining us from Glasgow


is the SNP's John Nicolson. But first let me come to Barry


Gardiner. I get the headline you most fear is Labour wipe-out in


Wales. I will wait until the voters have voted. It doesn't look good.


One of the important things you stressed in the introduction with


that on the cycle these are seats which are not in the metropolitan


areas where Labour is traditionally strong. Therefore one would expect,


didn't we did relatively well at the last time these seats were up for


grabs, that we would see a decline in our numbers. It now looks like


you won't do so well in Wales. And not just that, even more remarkable


if it is the Conservatives in Wales who are the insurgents, which must


surprise you. There are a lot of surprises in politics! That is a big


one! Brexit has changed a great deal in how the country thinks about


politics and what we're seeing is people might not be looking at these


simply as local elections. It is important when you're electing local


councillors who will be dealing with the basics of your own local town or


city, whether it is housing, rubbish collection, the local education


authority, social care, these are things you really need good local


councillors for. They do a fantastic job and people should focus their


attention on what these elections are about rather than trying to play


into the national picture. In Wales if they focus their attention on


what the administration run by Labour for 20 years as done, that


state education. Maybe this is what you are not doing so well. What is


it that Wales is behind England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in


every single area measured by the OECD rankings on reading, science


and mathematics? Wales is behind every other part of the UK but


education has been devolved and your party has won it for 20 years. As


you said, the Labour Party has been in control in Wales for a long


period of time but there are other services were actually Wales is


outperforming. Which ones? In certain measures of the health


service even though the Conservatives often like to pick of


the health service. There are a lot of bad comparisons. There are but


you cannot just pick and choose the bad ones. Any government compared


with any other will always have areas where it does less well.


Education of course is pretty fundamental, it was your body that


said education, education, education. I just want to say that I


totally disagree with Barry about the NHS in Wales. Labour have spent


less on the NHS in Wales and I urge people to consider their promises


for the rest of the UK in light of that fact... And outcomes are worse


because the whole body of health and waiting lists are longer, waiting


times are longer. I think it is not just education where the Welsh


Labour in government is failing their citizens, it is also in


health. It is no wonder the Conservatives are making inroads.


With talking about waiting times, there are 1.8 million people now


waiting longer than four hours in England for waiting times. When


Labour left office that was three and 50000 and I think the government


is on shaky ground if it starts talking about that problem. --


350,000. Before I go to John Nicolson, Gary Porter, chair of the


local government Association, said there was a gap of almost ?6 billion


in council funding and services would have to be cut, that is one of


your own Conservative peers saying that. People say a lot of things and


we will wait and see. What is wrong with what he has said? 6 billion! We


had to get greater efficiency in local government spending, local


government accounts for a huge portion of the national budget. In


order to reduce the budget deficit it would have been impossible to


have made the progress we have made without reducing spending at a local


level but the point about conservative run councils is that


they do deliver more efficient services in a more sustainable way


and there is a lot approved of that. John Nicholson joining us from


Glasgow. We had a few problems get youing you in. You are membering to


put 120 million extra into Scottish schools. Is that because you regret


cutting 4,000 teachers since you came to power? Well, you know the


First Minister said education is her top priority, she said she's


passionate about it and wants that to be one of the key areas in which


the Scottish Government is judged. So far, not so good then? You've


tumbled down the rankings as well in Scotland in the past ten years. You


cut teachers by 4,000 and on class sizes, you promised primary class


sizes of 18 They are now 23.5. It depends where you are in Scotland.


That's the average. In my own area, we've very good schooling. I go to


schools all the time. They're very impressive. I accept there are areas


of the country where clearly the schools have to be better. We know


that. We've a long and honourable tradition in Scotland about caring


for education. I think, to be fair, we have to remember that there have


been huge cuts from UK Central Government to the Scottish budgets.


Inevitably that filters down. Yes, but in the most recent settlement


from the Barnet formula, there was a rise of 1.5% in real terms of the


block grant that went to Scotland. But, when it came to passing money


on to the local councils, overall, you cut by 2.6% in real terms. So


you took these decisions within an overall emblem. That was your choice


in Scotland. There's been an overall cut. Nobody doubts this. Nobody


argues about the figures of 3 billion since the Conservative


Government came in on its own. That's a huge amount. There is a


danger everybody relies on political cliches, there are difficult


spending decisions to be made and so on. Clearly, local authorities have


to manage their finances effectively and efficiently. One of the reasons


that the Labour Party's likely to be defeated in Glasgow tomorrow after


so many decades in power is because there's a lot of poor management


locally. Everybody knows that. Barry, are you going to lose Glasgow


as well as Wales? I trust not. The point I would make... Most


commentators in Scotland think you are. Let's hope not. The point I


would wish to make about the debt and the way in which the Tories have


managed the economy is simply this. When we left office in 2010, just


after the global financial crisis, the national debt was ?979 billion.


Today, the debt with this Conservative Government is ?1.731


trillion. It's gone up by ?750 billion. So... It would have gone up


under any Government? No. Of course it would. Alistair Darling had a


four-year plan which would have resulted in massive debt. They said


they would cut the deficit. They never said they'd cut the debt. No,


they said Sh they'd managed debt down. Not increase it. What they


did, in fact, in terms of the deficit, they didn't manage to


reduce the deficit to store owe by 2015 as they promised. They then


said they'd do it by 2020. They failed. We're talking about local


government. Local government's not responsible for national debt. It


impacts on local government. The Government takes local decisions


which shunts the responsibility on. Let me finish by coming back to


Margot. The budget announced an extra two billion for social care.


How will that be paid for? The ?2 billion was announced. There's


agreement it is need in the social care. How will it be paid for? I


can't tell you that. I'm not the Chancellor. But it's Government


policy now. We are reducing the deficit. We've reduced it. I'm not


asking you about the deficit. I'm asking a simple question. You've


announced two billion to be paid for by national insurance. You've had to


resile from these NI increases. How will it be paid for? I'm not


answering the question to which I don't know the answer. The two


billion we're proposing to use to fund social care. You can see in the


bigger picture, we are managing the economy by reducing the deficit.


We've delayed the target date for balancing the book from 2020. We are


on a path to secure public finances. Very well, we have to stop there.


John Nicholson thank you. Sorry we'd prones in the beginning. Good to see


you. Now, Labour made impressive gains


in the Welsh local elections five years ago, including winning


a majority on Cardiff Council. But they're facing a tough


battle to retain control in the Welsh capital,


as Jenny Kumah reports. # Guide me, O thou great Jehovah,


pilgrim through this barren land #. Thousands of years ago,


the Romans ruled over Wales. They built a fort here


on the site of Cardiff Castle Now it's Labour who are the dominant


force in Welsh politics and five years ago they took control of


the City Council from the Lib Dems. The question is, can


they hold onto power? Since their victory here,


the Labour Party has seen infighting, resignations


and by-election defeats. We are fighting for


every single vote. We know that it is going to be


a very difficult election across the country and we're


going to make sure we get on every single doorstep over the next few


days up until that election to make sure we have that conversation


about what we've achieved here in Cardiff and what we want


to achieve going forward. The Liberal Democrats feel


the timing of the so-called Brexit general election helps


their local campaign, They recently won this ward


from Labour in a by-election and their aim is to take back


control of the council. We've been winning more by-elections


across the UK than any other party and also we are the fastest-growing


party now in the UK. Just in the last week or so we have


hit 100,000 members. The Conservatives are the third


largest party on Cardiff Council. The Prime Minister's recent visit


to South Wales I think there's a sort of feeling


there's a complacency that they're going to return members


and MPs on a regular basis. I think they'd like to see a change


and we represent that. Plaid Cymru recently


took a ward from Labour in the by-election and they're


hoping to make more gains. What we have in Wales is a one-party


state and people want change and that's why you look around here,


you see these signs, Ukip claimed they were a big part


of the political landscape in Wales after they won seven seats


on the Welsh Assembly last year. They currently don't have any


seats on Cardiff Council but they are fielding a small number


of candidates to try to break through


in this pro-EU city. So, that's where the parties stand


but how much do the candidates know about the services


the council provides? For example, the charge


for disposing of six large Do you know the exact cost


if it is six bulky items? We want to reopen recycling


centres and not charge With a Plaid Cymru Council


that would be free! We would abolish that charge


for collecting bulky waste items. How much would it cost


you to dispose of them? So varying degrees of knowledge


there but one thing all the candidates are


aware of is that the results from this week's local elections


could provide clues on how the general election


will turn out. And there is a full list


of the candidates in the Welsh local elections on the Wales section


of the BBC website: bbc.co.uk/Wales. Joining me now is Eluned Parrott


from the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Rhun ap Iorwerth


from Plaid Cymru. Welcome to both of you. Run, Plaid


Cymru are targeting Labour areas. Labour claimed victory in the


Cardiff elects in 2012. Why has the public mood changed in favour of you


since then? There's clear evidence not just in Cardiff but all across


Wales. Plaid Cymru has been strong in Wales. We are confident we'll


make gains this time round. What's the evidence? The evidence as you


would know from following many elections is what you're hearing on


the doorstep the length and breadth of country. People are sick and


tired of Labour. I understand why they've been perhaps loyal to the


Labour Party which may run in their blood and has done in their families


for generations. We have an impotent and incompetent Labour Party. The


other side of this pincer movement that's threatening Wales at the


moment is a vicious Conservative Party. With its threats to public


services. We've Plaid Cymru in the middle of that preparing to defend


Wales. This is a key time in our national development. We need to


look after our communities. Elunud, you lost control of the council to


Labour in 2012. You only have one Assembly member in Wales and one


Welsh MP. You're starting from quite a low point? We are stating a very


strong fightback. We've doubled our membership in the Vale of Glamorgan


over the last year. We are seeing real progress when we're going to


have conversations on the doorsteps. We are the second largest party on


Cardiff Council. We are the only party other than Labour to have a


full slate of candidates. We believe we can do very well. Both Plaid


Cymru and yourselves are pushing an anti-Brexit message. That's clear


nationally. Do you accept if you rely too much on a Remain message


you may appeal to voters in Cardiff but not across the rest of the Wales


and you'll split each other's votes? We have to be careful. In terms of


local elections it is a balance between national ideals and things


we believe in that people want to talk to us about and those very


local messages. Here in Cardiff, what we see in the Labour Party is a


micro cosp of what we see at a national level. The parties are


fighting each other and are too bitsy to fight for the city. How


central is at anti-Brexit message when you're out campaigning? It is


the most important thing people talk to us about. In Cardiff or outside


Cardiff. Across Wales, Leave was more dominant that Remain. I've been


canvassing in the Ka difficult and the Vale. I know my colleagues


across Wales are reporting the same things back to the Welsh party.


Brexit is really, really important. But actually, for local elections we


must focus on local issues. Getting services right for the people.


Making sure people have the local services they deserve. Run, are you


worried you'll cancel each other out with such a similar message when it


comes to the issue of Brexit? To be honest with you. Every respect to


Eluned, a believe the Liberal Democrats are largely sidelined in


this election in Wales. Evidence would show you that. Not in the


Cardiff Council elections. You talk about Brexit. I didn't want us to be


leaving the EU. What we have now, is plied come rye standing up to ghee


fend Wales, pointing out to people we have a bad Theresa May Brexit


being brewed by the Conservative Party at Westminster. Whilst we have


to seek the best possible departure from the EU for Wales which is a net


exporter to the EU. Hundreds of thousands of jobs dependent on that.


Holyhead port in my constituency dependent on a free border between


Wales and Ireland. If we can show people as I believe we are, that we


will look after the Welsh National interest defending Wales at every


possible junk door, I think people will trust to us fight and negotiate


the best deals for Wales. There hasn't been evidence of that so far.


Leave was dominant? You're right. It was 50/50 more or less in my


constituency. What we want people now is to realise in voting Leave,


they didn't take leave of their acceptses. We need to make sure


Welsh interests are protected. Will both of you be prepared to form an


administration, work together as you did in 2008? It is difficult to


predict. Would you work together? It is possible in local areas we will


work with other parties. At this point in time, we need to focus on


the elections. We're fighting a campaign looking at local services,


making promises to right things like the bomb site that is our pub


station in the city centre. To make sure people have the services they


expect from their local council. We understand Plaid Cymru will be


frustrated this general election has been called at the same time as a


local election. In fairness to Plaid Cymru they get squeezed in UK-wide


elections. They're not seen as being as relevant in a general election as


in a local or Assembly context. The truth is, parties who are willing to


make things work should be able to talk to one another. Do you agree


with that? In terms of working together in an administration in


I'm confident Plaid Cymru can get the best ever election result. I


would remind that the Lib Dems are currently in government with this


failed Labour government that has been running health and education in


Wales since 1999 and I think people are starting to see through that.


What we need is Plaid Cymru having as much influence as possible. Thank


you. So, it's a busy day


here in Westminster, Fortunately Ellie is on hand


with her election desk of news. No desk today but I have gazebos and


it can mean only one thing on a big set piece here in Westminster and


this afternoon Theresa May is off to see the Queen for the formal stuff


but as of one minute past midnight last night Parliament was dissolved


and there are no many -- no more MPs, just candidates which means the


campaign is officially underway and these are a few of the things that


have been happening. The Lib Dems have been out


in Oxfordshire, driving fear For the local economy


it will be a disaster. They are feeling cheery


after announcing party membership is at a record high


of nearly 102,000. Don't tell people who voted Leave


that they didn't know The Greens opted for a long-term


strategy of winning over I'm going to try and pitch it


to everyone, it's going to be quite The co-leader, Jonathan Bartley,


went back to school to make the case for emergency intervention


into air pollution. Ukip said international aid should


be cut to 0.2% of national income rather than 0.7%,


and the BBC licence fee should be At one point yesterday it looked


like the SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, was about to steal


someone's phone right Later today she's doing some local


election campaigning in Toryglen, which is a real place in Glasgow


where she hopes there won't be On the campaign trail yesterday,


Theresa May got a little peckish and committed one of the cardinal


sins in electioneering, This morning, Ed Miliband,


who himself had an unfortunate incident with a bacon sandwich


in his last campaign, tweeted His conciliatory tone may have


something to do with it being the anniversary


of the EdStone, his manifesto monolith unveiled two years ago


today that set in stone his party's election pledges and


universal ridicule. But, over it now, he showed


yesterday just how dedicated he is to his constituents,


by mowing the lawn. Multitalented! So Parliament has


been dissolved but what does that mean?


We are joined now by the Clerk of the House of Commons,


and their main Constitutional Advisor, David Natzler.


So what does it mean? It means that Parliament no longer in this --


exists as an institution. It dissolved at one it past midnight


but of course it still exist as a building and as an employer. The


2300 House of Commons employees are still hard at work. So not a holiday


for everybody? I'm afraid it doesn't! They might be able to take


a break if they can take annual leave at some time but the building


itself is, if anything, more open than usual. We have opened up days


we would not normally be open to the public because the houses would be


sitting, for public access, and in particular for younger people so we


have an offer on if your viewers are watching! Anybody aged 18 to 24,


which is not anybody here! They can visit for free. So this is the time


to go. It is and they will be harassed by us to register if they


have not registered. You are doing a public service. I hope so. It was


dissolved at one minute past midnight, is that unusual? No, it


just happens to be the beginning of the day on which it dissolves so


there is a lot of funny interpretation about these rules as


former members of Parliament will know, exactly when it is that there


passes get disabled meaning they cannot get in, how long they had to


clear their offices, and that applies to the hard-pressed staff,


all of whom were taken by surprise I assume. I think you can confidently


say that most people were taken aback by the snap election. Now they


are not MPs but candidates, are they across the rules, do they know what


happened and behave accordingly in terms of not overstepping the mark


as they would when they are MPs? Facilities and computers. They never


overstepped the mark when they are MPs, we would not allow it! There


are rules which are broadly the same as they were in 2015 so only two


years ago and it comes about regularly come like Saturdays. This


is the tenth dissolution I have experienced, and it is not an


amazing event, but the rules are quite complex and we have changed


one important aspect in response to requests from members and others is


that they and their staff will still have access to our network, that is


Thursday and e-mails, but they only use it for sort of hangover


parliamentary activities and not for political or campaigning purposes.


As last they can also pick is a higher charge if they want to keep


on using the equipment we lend them, the hardware, which they can use for


electrical but -- electoral purposes but they take charge. It is not I


who oversees what they do or anybody else, they must oversee but


ultimately in this democratic system there is no shortage of people


keeping an eye on what they do in a sometimes critical spirit. The House


of Lords is not elected. Could they not continue working and the thing?


Not when Parliament is dissolved, the Marnoch summons Parliament and


then by statute Parliament is dissolved -- the monarch. But peers


are slightly different, different in many ways! But obviously they don't


have to go out and campaign to be re-elected. But Parliament as an


institution, it is not just the Commons. It is like term has ended


at school and that is it. So school is out for you two in one sense!


Have you got work to finish in Parliament before you stop? We have


been really trying to finish up all the casework we had outstanding from


our surgeries before dissolution. There are a couple that we are


trying to squeeze this morning and I think I might have to ask David...


For an extension? I won't get that! But how I can do that, whether it is


as Barry Gardiner even not as an MP. You are now Barry Gardiner not an MP


and your e-mails will say that with obligatory text at the bottom and


also your social media is the same. I changed that last night! And it is


all over for you? Almost although the odd thing is we are still


ministers until a new government is formed but it is important we don't


engage in work or make announcement that might affect the election so it


is very careful. I shall be full-time campaigning for a good


result in the West Midlands Mayra election for Andy Street tomorrow.


Thank you very much. Let's return now to the local


elections which take place tomorrow. I'm joined by Peter Reeve from Ukip


and Jonathan Bartley from the Green party.


It looks like this will be a car crash for Ukip tomorrow. Not at all,


we stand by the way our councillors have worked and are very proud of


everything they have done and it will be a tough election for us. In


2030 is the equivalent election was our best election result ever -- in


2013. We still have 500 councillors, 147 of those being elected this done


so no matter what the result, we will still have at least 350


councillors so you cup that Ukip in local council goes on strong. The


calculations from Plymouth University based on by-election


results suggest you will lose over 100 seats. One of the great things


about Ukip, whether or not we hold seats in parliament or elsewhere, we


influence and we lead the national debate and we do it locally often


but in terms of national politics Ukip has led the way for several


years, leading the national agenda. I hope many of our councillors get


returned and I expect them to because they are some of the hardest


working people in politics in the country. Many of them are cleaning


public toilets, clean up the street, quitting the roads, doing a


practical job and would big comments we have at it one of the big


differences between Ukip and other parties is not only do our


councillors work harder but because we have no whip, they genuinely


represent their constituents and not told how to vote by their parties


like the other parties. Indeed, you you have a long record of defections


and revolts! Jonathan Bartley, you are contesting more council feeds


than in the past but what would a good result look like? -- council


seats. There is a slow and steady build and we are fielding 500 woody


for more candidates than 2013 and are hoping to make gains in the


north-east and the West Midlands which would not necessarily be


strong territory for us and in the Isle of Wight. We have recently


taken a seat in by-elections of Ukip and labour and we are looking to


build on that. The more people see of us, the more they like the


Greens. We don't want to pick and implode like you we want to build


steadily. You say the more people see you the more they like you but


your party was in charge of Brighton council where you introduced gender


neutral council forms and bullet and meat free Mondays in the staff


canteen. How scandalous! But you had a problem getting the rubbish


collected which seems to be but a fundamental issue for a party that


calls itself green. The issue of course was labour and the


Conservatives getting together to impose an austerity budget. We were


not in overall control, a minor key demonstration in Brighton so we got


a lot done, introducing the living wage and more affordable housing and


a 20 mph speed limit which cut casualties in five months by 19% and


collisions by 20%, things that change lives. That is what local


elections tend to be determined by, if you don't deliver on the ground.


And when we are not in control and Labour and Conservatives were


imposed austerity there was nothing you can do. And what about your


record in local government? You won control of Thanet District Council


in Kent in 2015 but then lost control because your councillors


kept resigning and defecting. We are still in control of that council and


we are proud of what they have done. You lost full control. When you look


at their output, when that council was run by conservatives and Labour


it was described by the LGA as toxic. You could have turned it


around and the last LGA report praised Chris Wells and the


leadership team and said that Ukip have the Council in good hands. Even


today we are talking about reopening Manston airport which is something


Labour and the Conservatives gave up and we will build a snag and would


build houses all over. We will have to leave it, I thank you both.


The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.


I'll will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big


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