03/05/2017 Daily Politics


03/05/2017

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LineFromTo

Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

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The General Election campaign is officially underway

:00:41.:00:43.

The main parties are trading blows on tax and the NHS.

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But hanging over it all, of course, is Brexit.

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The Brexit Secretary says Britain will not pay 100 billion euros to

:00:53.:00:55.

leave the EU after newspaper reports suggest it could be that high.

:00:56.:01:00.

But the EU's chief negotiator says the UK must "settle its accounts",

:01:01.:01:05.

although he insists he's not out to punish Britain.

:01:06.:01:09.

Labour promises to suspend planned closures to hospitals

:01:10.:01:12.

The Conservatives unveil a new poster

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attacking Labour on tax and spending.

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Yes, the campaign is well and truly up and running.

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But before we get to the general election,

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the parties face a big electoral test tomorrow

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with local elections in England, Scotland and Wales.

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We'll be speaking to the main parties.

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The building is still very much there and open to the public.

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will join us to explain what dissolution means.

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And with us for the whole of the programme today

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are the Business Minister, Margot James,

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and the Shadow International Trade Secretary, Barry Gardiner.

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Now, as of midnight last night, Parliament was dissolved

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which means Margot and Barry no longer get to put MP after their

:02:01.:02:04.

names and merely revert to being humble members of the public

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But just because they don't have MP by their name,

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it doesn't mean they aren't still politicians.

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The Brexit Secretary, David Davis, says the UK will not pay 100 billion

:02:17.:02:19.

euros to the EU as part of a so-called Brexit divorce bill.

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Mr Davis was responding to a report in the Financial Times which says

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it has calculated that the gross upfront bill has now risen

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to 100 billion euros after new demands from France and Germany.

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The UK government insists it will pay what it legally owes.

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Let's hear what they have to say this morning.

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Some have created the illusion that Brexit would have no material

:02:48.:02:50.

Or that negotiations can be concluded quickly and painlessly.

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Once again, there is no punishment, there is no Brexit bill,

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the financial settlement is only about settling the accounts.

:03:12.:03:16.

We will meet our international obligations.

:03:17.:03:18.

We haven't even started negotiations yet.

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We will engage on that in the negotiating chamber but this

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50, 60, 100 billion - numbers plucked out

:03:26.:03:28.

of the air are not ones we're going to be working with.

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We're not going there as supplicants.

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It's not for them to say, it's going to be done this way,

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They have to obey the law, Article 50.

:03:38.:03:41.

Article 50 says these things should be considered together.

:03:42.:03:43.

Joining me now is Charles Grant from the Centre for European Reform -

:03:44.:03:48.

it's a broadly pro-European think tank

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although is not uncritical of the EU.

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What is the commission up to floating figures of 100 billion

:03:55.:04:01.

euros? By this rate, by the end of the month, it could be a trillion?

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I'm not sure what they're up to. I think they're trying to shock the

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British out of what they see as their complacency. There's some

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concern, not just in the commission, but in France and Germany, who are

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pushing the commission to take a tough line, that the British are a

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bit out of touch with reality. The reality is if there is a dole,

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Britain will pay a Brexit bill of some sort. It will have to hay grow

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to pay something soon before they move on to talk about trade talks.

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That's at reality. When they talk to people in London, they have the idea

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the British don't get it. Aren't the commission out of tough thinking

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they'd agree to anything approaching 100 billion euros? Fwfrment T says

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the grows max is 100 billion. Based on... The FT being a good newspaper

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has done some of its own cal you could youlations. Based on the

:05:01.:05:07.

asumings we need to pay more for foreign policy and so on? In a

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sense, are they playing into Mrs May's hands? This will only

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strengthen her, is it not? The one person they will trust not to come

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anywhere near a figure like this is her. Do they realise what they are

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doing in Brussels? The way they see it is Britain's in a weak position.

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If there's no deal at all, which is quite possible, we leave the EU

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without an Article 50 settlement. Think of the impact op the familiar

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markets, the real economy. They think the British, they may be

:05:46.:05:52.

wrong, maybe Mrs May won't blink, if we leave without a deal, they

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believe it will be worse for the British economy. If they believe

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they're own figures which is a big if, they'd have a 100 billion hole

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in their accounts. They don't. They have about a 17 euro billion hole in

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their accounts. They are concerned about the next two years. After

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Britain leaves, there's two years left in the budget cycle. They want

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Britain to plug that. If that was the bottom line, then you're into

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negotiations. Then you're closer to something the British Government may

:06:26.:06:31.

well find acceptable to pay our obligations until the end of the

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current budget process which goes beyond our leaving the EU in return

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for a free trade deal. That's an negotiating position. There is a

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circle if we're lucky that can be squared. If the British can claim

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they're paying money into the budget and getting a good trade agreement

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in return, they will pay something. Much less. Along the lines you

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mentioned. The problem is the EU's got itself into this procedural

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position. We won't talk about the future trade agreement until you

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give on the budget. The talks will come together O'Later and hopefully

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we'll get a deal. Do you give credence to this figure? I think

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Charles is right. There is a lot of positioning going on. I think the

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100 billion is made up of potential liabilities. It is even understand

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within the commission and FT article what is happening here is there

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could be returns to the UK. The question is, do you put that money

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up front because it's a liability and then get it back if it doesn't

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materialise as a liability? Or do you wait and see if it crystallises

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and pay it at that time? The key thing is we will pay our

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international obligations. Mr Davis, the Brexit Secretary said that.

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Would a Labour Government considering paying anything like 100

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billion? Look, the point here is this, we want the best possible

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deal. The best possible deal is not simply about the 100 billion. The

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best possible deal is a total package in which we have the

:08:15.:08:19.

friction-free access into the internal market, that we have that

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access, we continue to be able to do the maximum amount of trade with the

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European Union. And actually, up front costs have to be offset

:08:28.:08:32.

against the eventual benefit and returns to the UK exchequer that

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increased revenues would bring. It is clear we'll have to pay

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something, and it is in the billions? I think David Davis said

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it was clear we won't walk away paying nothing. But it has to be

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consistent with something we owe not some figure dreamt up at such an

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early stage in the negotiations. There's a long way to go. We're just

:08:57.:09:01.

at the beginning. There's a lot of talk, various figures have been

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bandied about. We will pay what we will owe as part of a deal that the

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Prime Minister will bring back, that will be the best possible deal we

:09:12.:09:14.

can get. We need to see that in the round. There will be a lot of

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argument over what we owe. That's what the arguments will be about.

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Some people think it would be simply if we didn't go down this road. .

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Road.let's listen to the leader of Ukip. Paul Nuttall.

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What we want to know in Ukip is how much

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As far as Ukip is concerned, we should not be paying

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We believe the Prime Minister must make it clear to the Eurocrats

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that she is prepared to walk away because if she does not,

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they will walk all over her and Britain will get a rotten deal.

:09:47.:10:00.

S she prebared to walk away? Not on that basis. We are not a country

:10:01.:10:10.

which seeks to avoid our international obligations. We will

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pay based on what we owe. Not some figure dreamt up before the

:10:20.:10:22.

negotiations have started in bruise Emms. The point that rebutts Paul

:10:23.:10:28.

Nuttall is simply this. It's not about, if they offer us a bad deal,

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we should walk away. This the point Charles was getting at. Actually,

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walking away, going on to WTO rules is the worst possible damage that

:10:40.:10:43.

there could be to our economy in the long-term. We need a sustainable

:10:44.:10:48.

settlement. That must come as a package the the difficulty, as

:10:49.:10:51.

Charles said, is this fact the EU seems to have locked itself into a

:10:52.:10:57.

separate track negotiation rather than a combined one. We need to get

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that combined settlement back on track. People need to understand, it

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is not simply about this figure of 100 billion. It's actually about

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what do we eventually have as our trading future with the rest of the

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world, including the EU? Charles, the Barnier approach says you need

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to settle your accounts. That work involve coming to some amount. Then

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we can look at the free trade deal or the kind of arrangement Britain

:11:28.:11:31.

will have with Europe post-Brexit. But this's also the well known

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Brussels principle nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Though

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he wants to do them as two separate negotiations, the fact is we could

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agree a sum of morn with Mr Barnier, but then, not be happy with the deal

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that's on offer on trade post-Brexit and say, well, then, that bit we

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agreed to is off the table. That's at Brussels approach? The way around

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that is clear. It is what Barnier himself told me he wanted. The

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British have to accept the principle of paying into the budget this

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autumn. Accept some of the methodology of calculating the

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figure. Not get to the exact figure. Move on with the trade talks. The

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trade talks go well, come back to the details of the exact figure of

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the budget talks. As a final package, it will be all be agreed

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together. When you put it like that, you can see the beginnings of the

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British Government agreeing to that? Yes, on the procedure and timing.

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What the British Government wants is not completely compatible with what

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the EU wants. With goodwill on all sides they can come together. This

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100 billion figure plucked from thin air doesn't help. It will reinforce

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those like nutsal who don't want a deal at all. It is foolish of the

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commission. The council doesn't like this bring machineship from the

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commission. Very interesting. Thank you. I think we'll see more of you,

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Charles Grant. NHS, with a promise to suspend

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closures of hospital services, including A and maternity units,

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across England. The plan would include reviewing all

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44 local healthcare "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", or STPs,

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which were due to deliver ?22 billion worth of savings

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for the NHS. But NHS bosses and ministers

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have insisted the plans but about delivering

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a more efficient service. Here's Labour's Shadow Health

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Secretary, Jon Ashworth, What you're seeing in many

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parts of the country, If things are going to change, The

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public need to be involved. These S it. P plans, these Tory plans to

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downgrade services whether at Dewsbury, Darlington or places like

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Ealing in London, have not had the public involved in them whatsoever.

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We cannot have a system where A's are downgraded, hospitals, closed.

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Maternity units closed and the public are shut out of the decisions

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and they have no say at all. I'm announcing today, a Labour

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Government on its first day, will stop this hospital closure programme

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and have a full review. Meanwhile, the Conservatives

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have launched an attack on Labour, with a new poster claiming

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the party's promises to date amount to a ?45 billion tax bombshell -

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evoking memories of previous election campaigns dating back

:14:30.:14:33.

to John Major's campaign in 1992. Labour dismissed the charge as

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nonsense and insisted all their pledges were fully costed and would

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be outlined in their manifesto. But Chancellor Philip Hammond

:14:44.:14:47.

and Brexit Secretary David Davis Just when we need strong and stable

:14:48.:14:51.

leadership for our economy and our country over the crucial

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next five years as we negotiate our exit from the EU and chart

:15:00.:15:03.

a new course in the years beyond, Jeremy Corbyn offers a chaotic

:15:04.:15:07.

and high-risk gamble that would lead to higher taxes,

:15:08.:15:12.

more borrowing and more debt. It's a gamble for which

:15:13.:15:17.

we would all pay the price and that choice must be

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uppermost in people's minds when they cast their votes

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on June the 8th. Returning to the issues on health

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and these STPs that Jon Ashworth says is all about downgrading

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services and closing maternity units and A services. You are holding

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those plans, does that mean you are also halting the attempt to make

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these ?22 billion of efficiency savings the government has called

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for? You are right to draw attention to the fact of what is driving this

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programme. It was the government saying they were cutting ?30 billion

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but would give ?8 billion and that is how you got the ?22 billion

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supposedly efficiency savings. What we're saying is that the way in

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which this has been done has failed to really properly account for the

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wishes of local people. The consultations have been vacuous. And

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I would challenge Margo to tell us what the statutory basis of these

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STPs is. They are not a body that is established, they have no specific

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title except for they are a footprint, they are called a

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footprint which means they are accountable to nobody through the

:16:48.:16:51.

democratic... Just to be clear, as you say, efficiency savings the

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government called them, you call them cuts. And you would halt them?

:16:56.:17:00.

What we're saying is we want to make those savings... You said you they

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were cut but you want to make them? We want to make any savings we can

:17:06.:17:09.

which are genuine efficiency savings but what is driving this programme

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is the money and not the health need and it is local people that must be

:17:14.:17:17.

involved in determining that health need and how it is catered for.

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Going through that, there are plans in these plans put forward to

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downgrade services including A department and maternity services

:17:31.:17:34.

is. No, these plans are about putting services on a more

:17:35.:17:36.

sustainable and safer footing and I want to take issue with what the

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matter was -- in what Jon Ashworth... You are saying there are

:17:43.:17:45.

no planned in any of these papers put forward at a local level to

:17:46.:17:50.

downgrade any services or close any hospital units? There might be plans

:17:51.:17:55.

to involve the closure of certain units in order to put the overall

:17:56.:17:58.

service in an area on a more sustainable footing. In the Black

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Country where I represent we have had some improvements to patient

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care and hospital safety by consolidating certain services in

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one particular hospital or another and if I might add, there is an

:18:12.:18:16.

awful lot of services that are currently delivered in hospitals

:18:17.:18:19.

which would be far better for patients if they were delivered in

:18:20.:18:22.

the community. Do they have public support? There has been a

:18:23.:18:27.

consultation... If I can do is finish what I'm saying, these plans

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are not Tory plans as you heard in that film, there are plans that have

:18:33.:18:35.

been developed within the NHS. They have the blessing of independent

:18:36.:18:41.

health think the King 's fund, the independent medical director of the

:18:42.:18:45.

NHS is behind them. This is not something that should be party

:18:46.:18:47.

political and it is not something that the Conservative Party is set

:18:48.:18:52.

up, these are NHS plans to make the service more sustainable in the

:18:53.:18:56.

long-term. And is the point is not that nobody wants to see services

:18:57.:18:59.

closed or closed or shut or downgraded in local area, but that

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there are perfectly sensible plans to actually move services around so

:19:06.:19:09.

that you might have to travel a bit further, yes, but you cannot have

:19:10.:19:13.

every single small medical NHS unit offering every single treatment to

:19:14.:19:17.

people across the country? In my own area in north-west London, at the

:19:18.:19:22.

Labour government we did precisely that, we saw the point of

:19:23.:19:26.

centralising trauma, we put that in one hospital in Northwick Park

:19:27.:19:31.

Hospital and it has worked very well. Isn't that what these plans

:19:32.:19:36.

are doing? And the public supported it. This is being driven by

:19:37.:19:42.

unaccountable bodies and in north-west London you have

:19:43.:19:44.

Hammersmith and Fulham refusing to even participate... I thought

:19:45.:19:51.

doctors local medical staff... Hammersmith and Fulham and the whole

:19:52.:19:57.

of the Ealing local authority is saying they will not participate in

:19:58.:20:03.

the STPs because it is not taking account of local need and wishes. We

:20:04.:20:09.

want to democratise the process. Let's talk about money because the

:20:10.:20:12.

NHS is always a big issue in election campaigns. Labour have

:20:13.:20:17.

proposed a series of, for many people, popular proposals, wanting a

:20:18.:20:24.

pay increase for NHS staff, wanted to put into law the monetary number

:20:25.:20:27.

of stop up the Ishant and running training for health professionals.

:20:28.:20:32.

Would you back those proposals? You have dizzy them in the wider

:20:33.:20:37.

context. Let me say that over the last seven years the NHS total spend

:20:38.:20:41.

has increased year on year and that increase will be continuing... What

:20:42.:20:48.

has it been per patient? That has not increased and numbers showed

:20:49.:20:51.

that NHS England will face a sharp reduction of no point its present in

:20:52.:20:57.

real terms per patient in the financial year 2018-19. Take your

:20:58.:21:00.

point that overall it might have gone up but not per head. Certainly.

:21:01.:21:07.

If you are saying it is a drop of 0.6%, think we have not seen the

:21:08.:21:14.

manifesto yet, that is one proviso I would make and secondly even on a

:21:15.:21:20.

per patient aces that is at least eight static situation that the

:21:21.:21:24.

overall money spent is increasing. Can I come back to you on the

:21:25.:21:30.

proposals put forward by Labour, the pay increase for staff who have been

:21:31.:21:35.

on a pay freeze for a long period, putting into law this mandatory

:21:36.:21:39.

minimum number of staff, do you support that? That's not correct.

:21:40.:21:44.

The fact that there had been a pay freeze for all staff, that's not the

:21:45.:21:49.

case. A lot of NHS staff have had their progression pay on average 83%

:21:50.:21:55.

increase that it is not there to save... -- a 3% increase. I want an

:21:56.:22:03.

affordable increase and if you look at the Labour plans, as the advert

:22:04.:22:08.

that he put up showed, they are totally uncosted and unaffordable

:22:09.:22:12.

and leave a huge black hole. How much will it cost? How much will

:22:13.:22:18.

those things I have listed about a substantial pay increase for staff,

:22:19.:22:21.

putting into law the mandatory minimum number of staff and patient

:22:22.:22:27.

training, how much does it cost? The nurses bursaries, we accosted them

:22:28.:22:31.

against the tax cuts that the Conservatives have given to the

:22:32.:22:35.

wealthiest in our country. Corporation tax? In the manifesto,

:22:36.:22:40.

every single one of the commitments we have made will be in detailed

:22:41.:22:45.

costed figures. You have already said it will come from the increase

:22:46.:22:55.

in corporation tax. The nurses bursaries will come from corporation

:22:56.:22:58.

tax Idiakez allowance from inheritance tax, the 10,000 police

:22:59.:23:04.

officers from capital gains tax, the educational maintenance back from

:23:05.:23:06.

corporation tax, the student grants from corporation tax. What will be

:23:07.:23:12.

corporation tax rate be? You will know that the corporation tax

:23:13.:23:18.

actually be highest it was ever was in 1982... I just asked what it will

:23:19.:23:23.

be. That will be in the manifesto exactly what the tax rate will be

:23:24.:23:27.

but what the Conservatives have done is they have taken it down for an

:23:28.:23:33.

average of over 30% to 19% and are looking to take it down to 17%. You

:23:34.:23:39.

would put it back to 28%? We will say what we will do in the manifesto

:23:40.:23:44.

but my point is that it has all been contained within those clear

:23:45.:23:47.

envelopes. We're going to have to stop and move on.

:23:48.:23:49.

Voters are going to the polls tomorrow in England, Scotland

:23:50.:23:51.

There's plenty to get excited about - all the councils in Scotland

:23:52.:23:56.

and Wales are up for grabs, as are 34 councils in England.

:23:57.:23:58.

And as if that wasn't enough, there are also eight mayoral

:23:59.:24:01.

Psephological geeks like Barry and Margot here can barely wait.

:24:02.:24:04.

because first here's JoCo with all the details.

:24:05.:24:10.

Local elections take place tomorrow in England, Scotland and Wales.

:24:11.:24:12.

In England, there are elections for 34 councils

:24:13.:24:14.

which are usually areas of strength for the Conservatives.

:24:15.:24:26.

Large cities where Labour usually fare better

:24:27.:24:28.

There are also eight mayoral elections in England

:24:29.:24:34.

with voters in Greater Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield

:24:35.:24:37.

In Scotland, every seat in all 32 councils have local elections,

:24:38.:24:45.

many of them are affected by boundary changes.

:24:46.:24:47.

Since these seats were last contested,

:24:48.:24:48.

Labour has lost all but one of its Scottish MPs.

:24:49.:24:51.

Meanwhile, every seat in each of Wales' 22 councils

:24:52.:24:53.

All but one was last elected in 2012

:24:54.:25:03.

in what was a very strong year for Labour, though independent

:25:04.:25:05.

candidates currently hold a quarter of council seats.

:25:06.:25:10.

In England, the Conservatives are predicted to increase their seat

:25:11.:25:12.

That's according to the latest calculations by Professors

:25:13.:25:17.

Colin Rallings and Michael Thrasher of Plymouth University.

:25:18.:25:23.

Whilst Labour could be down by 75 council seats.

:25:24.:25:26.

As for the other parties, the Lib Dems are predicted to gain

:25:27.:25:29.

an extra 85 seats while Ukip could be starting a freefall.

:25:30.:25:31.

They are predicted to lose 105 seats.

:25:32.:25:38.

Although the proportional system makes big changes

:25:39.:25:40.

the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats they hold

:25:41.:25:45.

and the number of councils they control.

:25:46.:25:51.

In Wales, Labour are predicted to lose 130 seats,

:25:52.:25:53.

even more than the projected losses in England.

:25:54.:25:55.

That is based on analysis of a recent Cardiff University poll

:25:56.:25:58.

which predicted a notable swing to the Conservatives in Wales.

:25:59.:26:06.

Well, let's talk more about the local elections.

:26:07.:26:11.

People will vote tomorrow but most of the results will not come through

:26:12.:26:17.

until Friday morning. Joining us from Glasgow

:26:18.:26:22.

is the SNP's John Nicolson. But first let me come to Barry

:26:23.:26:30.

Gardiner. I get the headline you most fear is Labour wipe-out in

:26:31.:26:36.

Wales. I will wait until the voters have voted. It doesn't look good.

:26:37.:26:41.

One of the important things you stressed in the introduction with

:26:42.:26:45.

that on the cycle these are seats which are not in the metropolitan

:26:46.:26:50.

areas where Labour is traditionally strong. Therefore one would expect,

:26:51.:26:54.

didn't we did relatively well at the last time these seats were up for

:26:55.:26:58.

grabs, that we would see a decline in our numbers. It now looks like

:26:59.:27:07.

you won't do so well in Wales. And not just that, even more remarkable

:27:08.:27:14.

if it is the Conservatives in Wales who are the insurgents, which must

:27:15.:27:19.

surprise you. There are a lot of surprises in politics! That is a big

:27:20.:27:26.

one! Brexit has changed a great deal in how the country thinks about

:27:27.:27:29.

politics and what we're seeing is people might not be looking at these

:27:30.:27:33.

simply as local elections. It is important when you're electing local

:27:34.:27:37.

councillors who will be dealing with the basics of your own local town or

:27:38.:27:43.

city, whether it is housing, rubbish collection, the local education

:27:44.:27:47.

authority, social care, these are things you really need good local

:27:48.:27:53.

councillors for. They do a fantastic job and people should focus their

:27:54.:27:57.

attention on what these elections are about rather than trying to play

:27:58.:28:00.

into the national picture. In Wales if they focus their attention on

:28:01.:28:07.

what the administration run by Labour for 20 years as done, that

:28:08.:28:11.

state education. Maybe this is what you are not doing so well. What is

:28:12.:28:16.

it that Wales is behind England, Northern Ireland and Scotland in

:28:17.:28:21.

every single area measured by the OECD rankings on reading, science

:28:22.:28:26.

and mathematics? Wales is behind every other part of the UK but

:28:27.:28:31.

education has been devolved and your party has won it for 20 years. As

:28:32.:28:37.

you said, the Labour Party has been in control in Wales for a long

:28:38.:28:42.

period of time but there are other services were actually Wales is

:28:43.:28:47.

outperforming. Which ones? In certain measures of the health

:28:48.:28:50.

service even though the Conservatives often like to pick of

:28:51.:28:54.

the health service. There are a lot of bad comparisons. There are but

:28:55.:28:58.

you cannot just pick and choose the bad ones. Any government compared

:28:59.:29:02.

with any other will always have areas where it does less well.

:29:03.:29:07.

Education of course is pretty fundamental, it was your body that

:29:08.:29:11.

said education, education, education. I just want to say that I

:29:12.:29:18.

totally disagree with Barry about the NHS in Wales. Labour have spent

:29:19.:29:22.

less on the NHS in Wales and I urge people to consider their promises

:29:23.:29:26.

for the rest of the UK in light of that fact... And outcomes are worse

:29:27.:29:34.

because the whole body of health and waiting lists are longer, waiting

:29:35.:29:39.

times are longer. I think it is not just education where the Welsh

:29:40.:29:41.

Labour in government is failing their citizens, it is also in

:29:42.:29:45.

health. It is no wonder the Conservatives are making inroads.

:29:46.:29:51.

With talking about waiting times, there are 1.8 million people now

:29:52.:29:56.

waiting longer than four hours in England for waiting times. When

:29:57.:30:00.

Labour left office that was three and 50000 and I think the government

:30:01.:30:03.

is on shaky ground if it starts talking about that problem. --

:30:04.:30:09.

350,000. Before I go to John Nicolson, Gary Porter, chair of the

:30:10.:30:17.

local government Association, said there was a gap of almost ?6 billion

:30:18.:30:21.

in council funding and services would have to be cut, that is one of

:30:22.:30:25.

your own Conservative peers saying that. People say a lot of things and

:30:26.:30:29.

we will wait and see. What is wrong with what he has said? 6 billion! We

:30:30.:30:36.

had to get greater efficiency in local government spending, local

:30:37.:30:38.

government accounts for a huge portion of the national budget. In

:30:39.:30:42.

order to reduce the budget deficit it would have been impossible to

:30:43.:30:46.

have made the progress we have made without reducing spending at a local

:30:47.:30:50.

level but the point about conservative run councils is that

:30:51.:30:54.

they do deliver more efficient services in a more sustainable way

:30:55.:30:55.

and there is a lot approved of that. John Nicholson joining us from

:30:56.:31:06.

Glasgow. We had a few problems get youing you in. You are membering to

:31:07.:31:11.

put 120 million extra into Scottish schools. Is that because you regret

:31:12.:31:15.

cutting 4,000 teachers since you came to power? Well, you know the

:31:16.:31:22.

First Minister said education is her top priority, she said she's

:31:23.:31:25.

passionate about it and wants that to be one of the key areas in which

:31:26.:31:32.

the Scottish Government is judged. So far, not so good then? You've

:31:33.:31:38.

tumbled down the rankings as well in Scotland in the past ten years. You

:31:39.:31:46.

cut teachers by 4,000 and on class sizes, you promised primary class

:31:47.:31:51.

sizes of 18 They are now 23.5. It depends where you are in Scotland.

:31:52.:31:57.

That's the average. In my own area, we've very good schooling. I go to

:31:58.:32:02.

schools all the time. They're very impressive. I accept there are areas

:32:03.:32:06.

of the country where clearly the schools have to be better. We know

:32:07.:32:11.

that. We've a long and honourable tradition in Scotland about caring

:32:12.:32:15.

for education. I think, to be fair, we have to remember that there have

:32:16.:32:20.

been huge cuts from UK Central Government to the Scottish budgets.

:32:21.:32:25.

Inevitably that filters down. Yes, but in the most recent settlement

:32:26.:32:32.

from the Barnet formula, there was a rise of 1.5% in real terms of the

:32:33.:32:37.

block grant that went to Scotland. But, when it came to passing money

:32:38.:32:43.

on to the local councils, overall, you cut by 2.6% in real terms. So

:32:44.:32:50.

you took these decisions within an overall emblem. That was your choice

:32:51.:32:54.

in Scotland. There's been an overall cut. Nobody doubts this. Nobody

:32:55.:33:03.

argues about the figures of 3 billion since the Conservative

:33:04.:33:05.

Government came in on its own. That's a huge amount. There is a

:33:06.:33:11.

danger everybody relies on political cliches, there are difficult

:33:12.:33:13.

spending decisions to be made and so on. Clearly, local authorities have

:33:14.:33:18.

to manage their finances effectively and efficiently. One of the reasons

:33:19.:33:24.

that the Labour Party's likely to be defeated in Glasgow tomorrow after

:33:25.:33:28.

so many decades in power is because there's a lot of poor management

:33:29.:33:33.

locally. Everybody knows that. Barry, are you going to lose Glasgow

:33:34.:33:39.

as well as Wales? I trust not. The point I would make... Most

:33:40.:33:43.

commentators in Scotland think you are. Let's hope not. The point I

:33:44.:33:49.

would wish to make about the debt and the way in which the Tories have

:33:50.:33:55.

managed the economy is simply this. When we left office in 2010, just

:33:56.:34:03.

after the global financial crisis, the national debt was ?979 billion.

:34:04.:34:11.

Today, the debt with this Conservative Government is ?1.731

:34:12.:34:15.

trillion. It's gone up by ?750 billion. So... It would have gone up

:34:16.:34:22.

under any Government? No. Of course it would. Alistair Darling had a

:34:23.:34:27.

four-year plan which would have resulted in massive debt. They said

:34:28.:34:31.

they would cut the deficit. They never said they'd cut the debt. No,

:34:32.:34:36.

they said Sh they'd managed debt down. Not increase it. What they

:34:37.:34:42.

did, in fact, in terms of the deficit, they didn't manage to

:34:43.:34:46.

reduce the deficit to store owe by 2015 as they promised. They then

:34:47.:34:49.

said they'd do it by 2020. They failed. We're talking about local

:34:50.:34:55.

government. Local government's not responsible for national debt. It

:34:56.:35:02.

impacts on local government. The Government takes local decisions

:35:03.:35:07.

which shunts the responsibility on. Let me finish by coming back to

:35:08.:35:14.

Margot. The budget announced an extra two billion for social care.

:35:15.:35:20.

How will that be paid for? The ?2 billion was announced. There's

:35:21.:35:24.

agreement it is need in the social care. How will it be paid for? I

:35:25.:35:30.

can't tell you that. I'm not the Chancellor. But it's Government

:35:31.:35:33.

policy now. We are reducing the deficit. We've reduced it. I'm not

:35:34.:35:38.

asking you about the deficit. I'm asking a simple question. You've

:35:39.:35:43.

announced two billion to be paid for by national insurance. You've had to

:35:44.:35:49.

resile from these NI increases. How will it be paid for? I'm not

:35:50.:35:53.

answering the question to which I don't know the answer. The two

:35:54.:35:58.

billion we're proposing to use to fund social care. You can see in the

:35:59.:36:04.

bigger picture, we are managing the economy by reducing the deficit.

:36:05.:36:09.

We've delayed the target date for balancing the book from 2020. We are

:36:10.:36:13.

on a path to secure public finances. Very well, we have to stop there.

:36:14.:36:18.

John Nicholson thank you. Sorry we'd prones in the beginning. Good to see

:36:19.:36:19.

you. Now, Labour made impressive gains

:36:20.:36:21.

in the Welsh local elections five years ago, including winning

:36:22.:36:24.

a majority on Cardiff Council. But they're facing a tough

:36:25.:36:26.

battle to retain control in the Welsh capital,

:36:27.:36:28.

as Jenny Kumah reports. # Guide me, O thou great Jehovah,

:36:29.:36:34.

pilgrim through this barren land #. Thousands of years ago,

:36:35.:36:41.

the Romans ruled over Wales. They built a fort here

:36:42.:36:44.

on the site of Cardiff Castle Now it's Labour who are the dominant

:36:45.:36:47.

force in Welsh politics and five years ago they took control of

:36:48.:36:53.

the City Council from the Lib Dems. The question is, can

:36:54.:36:58.

they hold onto power? Since their victory here,

:36:59.:37:03.

the Labour Party has seen infighting, resignations

:37:04.:37:05.

and by-election defeats. We are fighting for

:37:06.:37:10.

every single vote. We know that it is going to be

:37:11.:37:15.

a very difficult election across the country and we're

:37:16.:37:18.

going to make sure we get on every single doorstep over the next few

:37:19.:37:22.

days up until that election to make sure we have that conversation

:37:23.:37:25.

about what we've achieved here in Cardiff and what we want

:37:26.:37:27.

to achieve going forward. The Liberal Democrats feel

:37:28.:37:29.

the timing of the so-called Brexit general election helps

:37:30.:37:32.

their local campaign, They recently won this ward

:37:33.:37:35.

from Labour in a by-election and their aim is to take back

:37:36.:37:41.

control of the council. We've been winning more by-elections

:37:42.:37:46.

across the UK than any other party and also we are the fastest-growing

:37:47.:37:50.

party now in the UK. Just in the last week or so we have

:37:51.:37:53.

hit 100,000 members. The Conservatives are the third

:37:54.:37:57.

largest party on Cardiff Council. The Prime Minister's recent visit

:37:58.:38:01.

to South Wales I think there's a sort of feeling

:38:02.:38:04.

there's a complacency that they're going to return members

:38:05.:38:09.

and MPs on a regular basis. I think they'd like to see a change

:38:10.:38:13.

and we represent that. Plaid Cymru recently

:38:14.:38:20.

took a ward from Labour in the by-election and they're

:38:21.:38:23.

hoping to make more gains. What we have in Wales is a one-party

:38:24.:38:27.

state and people want change and that's why you look around here,

:38:28.:38:30.

you see these signs, Ukip claimed they were a big part

:38:31.:38:34.

of the political landscape in Wales after they won seven seats

:38:35.:38:42.

on the Welsh Assembly last year. They currently don't have any

:38:43.:38:47.

seats on Cardiff Council but they are fielding a small number

:38:48.:38:51.

of candidates to try to break through

:38:52.:38:55.

in this pro-EU city. So, that's where the parties stand

:38:56.:38:58.

but how much do the candidates know about the services

:38:59.:39:01.

the council provides? For example, the charge

:39:02.:39:04.

for disposing of six large Do you know the exact cost

:39:05.:39:08.

if it is six bulky items? We want to reopen recycling

:39:09.:39:14.

centres and not charge With a Plaid Cymru Council

:39:15.:39:19.

that would be free! We would abolish that charge

:39:20.:39:25.

for collecting bulky waste items. How much would it cost

:39:26.:39:28.

you to dispose of them? So varying degrees of knowledge

:39:29.:39:31.

there but one thing all the candidates are

:39:32.:39:40.

aware of is that the results from this week's local elections

:39:41.:39:43.

could provide clues on how the general election

:39:44.:39:46.

will turn out. And there is a full list

:39:47.:39:52.

of the candidates in the Welsh local elections on the Wales section

:39:53.:39:57.

of the BBC website: bbc.co.uk/Wales. Joining me now is Eluned Parrott

:39:58.:40:02.

from the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Rhun ap Iorwerth

:40:03.:40:05.

from Plaid Cymru. Welcome to both of you. Run, Plaid

:40:06.:40:20.

Cymru are targeting Labour areas. Labour claimed victory in the

:40:21.:40:27.

Cardiff elects in 2012. Why has the public mood changed in favour of you

:40:28.:40:32.

since then? There's clear evidence not just in Cardiff but all across

:40:33.:40:36.

Wales. Plaid Cymru has been strong in Wales. We are confident we'll

:40:37.:40:41.

make gains this time round. What's the evidence? The evidence as you

:40:42.:40:45.

would know from following many elections is what you're hearing on

:40:46.:40:49.

the doorstep the length and breadth of country. People are sick and

:40:50.:40:54.

tired of Labour. I understand why they've been perhaps loyal to the

:40:55.:40:57.

Labour Party which may run in their blood and has done in their families

:40:58.:41:02.

for generations. We have an impotent and incompetent Labour Party. The

:41:03.:41:04.

other side of this pincer movement that's threatening Wales at the

:41:05.:41:08.

moment is a vicious Conservative Party. With its threats to public

:41:09.:41:15.

services. We've Plaid Cymru in the middle of that preparing to defend

:41:16.:41:18.

Wales. This is a key time in our national development. We need to

:41:19.:41:23.

look after our communities. Elunud, you lost control of the council to

:41:24.:41:29.

Labour in 2012. You only have one Assembly member in Wales and one

:41:30.:41:33.

Welsh MP. You're starting from quite a low point? We are stating a very

:41:34.:41:40.

strong fightback. We've doubled our membership in the Vale of Glamorgan

:41:41.:41:44.

over the last year. We are seeing real progress when we're going to

:41:45.:41:48.

have conversations on the doorsteps. We are the second largest party on

:41:49.:41:52.

Cardiff Council. We are the only party other than Labour to have a

:41:53.:41:56.

full slate of candidates. We believe we can do very well. Both Plaid

:41:57.:42:02.

Cymru and yourselves are pushing an anti-Brexit message. That's clear

:42:03.:42:06.

nationally. Do you accept if you rely too much on a Remain message

:42:07.:42:12.

you may appeal to voters in Cardiff but not across the rest of the Wales

:42:13.:42:18.

and you'll split each other's votes? We have to be careful. In terms of

:42:19.:42:22.

local elections it is a balance between national ideals and things

:42:23.:42:25.

we believe in that people want to talk to us about and those very

:42:26.:42:30.

local messages. Here in Cardiff, what we see in the Labour Party is a

:42:31.:42:34.

micro cosp of what we see at a national level. The parties are

:42:35.:42:40.

fighting each other and are too bitsy to fight for the city. How

:42:41.:42:46.

central is at anti-Brexit message when you're out campaigning? It is

:42:47.:42:50.

the most important thing people talk to us about. In Cardiff or outside

:42:51.:42:58.

Cardiff. Across Wales, Leave was more dominant that Remain. I've been

:42:59.:43:04.

canvassing in the Ka difficult and the Vale. I know my colleagues

:43:05.:43:09.

across Wales are reporting the same things back to the Welsh party.

:43:10.:43:14.

Brexit is really, really important. But actually, for local elections we

:43:15.:43:19.

must focus on local issues. Getting services right for the people.

:43:20.:43:22.

Making sure people have the local services they deserve. Run, are you

:43:23.:43:29.

worried you'll cancel each other out with such a similar message when it

:43:30.:43:33.

comes to the issue of Brexit? To be honest with you. Every respect to

:43:34.:43:40.

Eluned, a believe the Liberal Democrats are largely sidelined in

:43:41.:43:43.

this election in Wales. Evidence would show you that. Not in the

:43:44.:43:48.

Cardiff Council elections. You talk about Brexit. I didn't want us to be

:43:49.:43:54.

leaving the EU. What we have now, is plied come rye standing up to ghee

:43:55.:44:00.

fend Wales, pointing out to people we have a bad Theresa May Brexit

:44:01.:44:03.

being brewed by the Conservative Party at Westminster. Whilst we have

:44:04.:44:09.

to seek the best possible departure from the EU for Wales which is a net

:44:10.:44:14.

exporter to the EU. Hundreds of thousands of jobs dependent on that.

:44:15.:44:19.

Holyhead port in my constituency dependent on a free border between

:44:20.:44:23.

Wales and Ireland. If we can show people as I believe we are, that we

:44:24.:44:29.

will look after the Welsh National interest defending Wales at every

:44:30.:44:32.

possible junk door, I think people will trust to us fight and negotiate

:44:33.:44:37.

the best deals for Wales. There hasn't been evidence of that so far.

:44:38.:44:46.

Leave was dominant? You're right. It was 50/50 more or less in my

:44:47.:44:52.

constituency. What we want people now is to realise in voting Leave,

:44:53.:44:56.

they didn't take leave of their acceptses. We need to make sure

:44:57.:45:05.

Welsh interests are protected. Will both of you be prepared to form an

:45:06.:45:10.

administration, work together as you did in 2008? It is difficult to

:45:11.:45:16.

predict. Would you work together? It is possible in local areas we will

:45:17.:45:20.

work with other parties. At this point in time, we need to focus on

:45:21.:45:25.

the elections. We're fighting a campaign looking at local services,

:45:26.:45:29.

making promises to right things like the bomb site that is our pub

:45:30.:45:33.

station in the city centre. To make sure people have the services they

:45:34.:45:37.

expect from their local council. We understand Plaid Cymru will be

:45:38.:45:40.

frustrated this general election has been called at the same time as a

:45:41.:45:45.

local election. In fairness to Plaid Cymru they get squeezed in UK-wide

:45:46.:45:51.

elections. They're not seen as being as relevant in a general election as

:45:52.:45:56.

in a local or Assembly context. The truth is, parties who are willing to

:45:57.:46:00.

make things work should be able to talk to one another. Do you agree

:46:01.:46:05.

with that? In terms of working together in an administration in

:46:06.:46:11.

I'm confident Plaid Cymru can get the best ever election result. I

:46:12.:46:16.

would remind that the Lib Dems are currently in government with this

:46:17.:46:19.

failed Labour government that has been running health and education in

:46:20.:46:23.

Wales since 1999 and I think people are starting to see through that.

:46:24.:46:27.

What we need is Plaid Cymru having as much influence as possible. Thank

:46:28.:46:29.

you. So, it's a busy day

:46:30.:46:30.

here in Westminster, Fortunately Ellie is on hand

:46:31.:46:32.

with her election desk of news. No desk today but I have gazebos and

:46:33.:46:46.

it can mean only one thing on a big set piece here in Westminster and

:46:47.:46:49.

this afternoon Theresa May is off to see the Queen for the formal stuff

:46:50.:46:53.

but as of one minute past midnight last night Parliament was dissolved

:46:54.:46:58.

and there are no many -- no more MPs, just candidates which means the

:46:59.:47:02.

campaign is officially underway and these are a few of the things that

:47:03.:47:03.

have been happening. The Lib Dems have been out

:47:04.:47:04.

in Oxfordshire, driving fear For the local economy

:47:05.:47:06.

it will be a disaster. They are feeling cheery

:47:07.:47:10.

after announcing party membership is at a record high

:47:11.:47:15.

of nearly 102,000. Don't tell people who voted Leave

:47:16.:47:19.

that they didn't know The Greens opted for a long-term

:47:20.:47:24.

strategy of winning over I'm going to try and pitch it

:47:25.:47:31.

to everyone, it's going to be quite The co-leader, Jonathan Bartley,

:47:32.:47:37.

went back to school to make the case for emergency intervention

:47:38.:47:41.

into air pollution. Ukip said international aid should

:47:42.:47:45.

be cut to 0.2% of national income rather than 0.7%,

:47:46.:47:48.

and the BBC licence fee should be At one point yesterday it looked

:47:49.:47:52.

like the SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, was about to steal

:47:53.:47:58.

someone's phone right Later today she's doing some local

:47:59.:48:00.

election campaigning in Toryglen, which is a real place in Glasgow

:48:01.:48:07.

where she hopes there won't be On the campaign trail yesterday,

:48:08.:48:11.

Theresa May got a little peckish and committed one of the cardinal

:48:12.:48:14.

sins in electioneering, This morning, Ed Miliband,

:48:15.:48:19.

who himself had an unfortunate incident with a bacon sandwich

:48:20.:48:28.

in his last campaign, tweeted His conciliatory tone may have

:48:29.:48:30.

something to do with it being the anniversary

:48:31.:48:34.

of the EdStone, his manifesto monolith unveiled two years ago

:48:35.:48:36.

today that set in stone his party's election pledges and

:48:37.:48:39.

universal ridicule. But, over it now, he showed

:48:40.:48:43.

yesterday just how dedicated he is to his constituents,

:48:44.:48:45.

by mowing the lawn. Multitalented! So Parliament has

:48:46.:49:00.

been dissolved but what does that mean?

:49:01.:49:02.

We are joined now by the Clerk of the House of Commons,

:49:03.:49:05.

and their main Constitutional Advisor, David Natzler.

:49:06.:49:07.

So what does it mean? It means that Parliament no longer in this --

:49:08.:49:18.

exists as an institution. It dissolved at one it past midnight

:49:19.:49:23.

but of course it still exist as a building and as an employer. The

:49:24.:49:29.

2300 House of Commons employees are still hard at work. So not a holiday

:49:30.:49:34.

for everybody? I'm afraid it doesn't! They might be able to take

:49:35.:49:39.

a break if they can take annual leave at some time but the building

:49:40.:49:44.

itself is, if anything, more open than usual. We have opened up days

:49:45.:49:48.

we would not normally be open to the public because the houses would be

:49:49.:49:53.

sitting, for public access, and in particular for younger people so we

:49:54.:49:56.

have an offer on if your viewers are watching! Anybody aged 18 to 24,

:49:57.:50:03.

which is not anybody here! They can visit for free. So this is the time

:50:04.:50:11.

to go. It is and they will be harassed by us to register if they

:50:12.:50:15.

have not registered. You are doing a public service. I hope so. It was

:50:16.:50:20.

dissolved at one minute past midnight, is that unusual? No, it

:50:21.:50:25.

just happens to be the beginning of the day on which it dissolves so

:50:26.:50:29.

there is a lot of funny interpretation about these rules as

:50:30.:50:34.

former members of Parliament will know, exactly when it is that there

:50:35.:50:38.

passes get disabled meaning they cannot get in, how long they had to

:50:39.:50:42.

clear their offices, and that applies to the hard-pressed staff,

:50:43.:50:47.

all of whom were taken by surprise I assume. I think you can confidently

:50:48.:50:51.

say that most people were taken aback by the snap election. Now they

:50:52.:50:56.

are not MPs but candidates, are they across the rules, do they know what

:50:57.:51:03.

happened and behave accordingly in terms of not overstepping the mark

:51:04.:51:08.

as they would when they are MPs? Facilities and computers. They never

:51:09.:51:11.

overstepped the mark when they are MPs, we would not allow it! There

:51:12.:51:16.

are rules which are broadly the same as they were in 2015 so only two

:51:17.:51:22.

years ago and it comes about regularly come like Saturdays. This

:51:23.:51:26.

is the tenth dissolution I have experienced, and it is not an

:51:27.:51:29.

amazing event, but the rules are quite complex and we have changed

:51:30.:51:34.

one important aspect in response to requests from members and others is

:51:35.:51:39.

that they and their staff will still have access to our network, that is

:51:40.:51:46.

Thursday and e-mails, but they only use it for sort of hangover

:51:47.:51:52.

parliamentary activities and not for political or campaigning purposes.

:51:53.:51:56.

As last they can also pick is a higher charge if they want to keep

:51:57.:52:00.

on using the equipment we lend them, the hardware, which they can use for

:52:01.:52:06.

electrical but -- electoral purposes but they take charge. It is not I

:52:07.:52:11.

who oversees what they do or anybody else, they must oversee but

:52:12.:52:16.

ultimately in this democratic system there is no shortage of people

:52:17.:52:21.

keeping an eye on what they do in a sometimes critical spirit. The House

:52:22.:52:25.

of Lords is not elected. Could they not continue working and the thing?

:52:26.:52:30.

Not when Parliament is dissolved, the Marnoch summons Parliament and

:52:31.:52:33.

then by statute Parliament is dissolved -- the monarch. But peers

:52:34.:52:45.

are slightly different, different in many ways! But obviously they don't

:52:46.:52:49.

have to go out and campaign to be re-elected. But Parliament as an

:52:50.:52:54.

institution, it is not just the Commons. It is like term has ended

:52:55.:52:59.

at school and that is it. So school is out for you two in one sense!

:53:00.:53:04.

Have you got work to finish in Parliament before you stop? We have

:53:05.:53:08.

been really trying to finish up all the casework we had outstanding from

:53:09.:53:12.

our surgeries before dissolution. There are a couple that we are

:53:13.:53:18.

trying to squeeze this morning and I think I might have to ask David...

:53:19.:53:26.

For an extension? I won't get that! But how I can do that, whether it is

:53:27.:53:33.

as Barry Gardiner even not as an MP. You are now Barry Gardiner not an MP

:53:34.:53:37.

and your e-mails will say that with obligatory text at the bottom and

:53:38.:53:40.

also your social media is the same. I changed that last night! And it is

:53:41.:53:47.

all over for you? Almost although the odd thing is we are still

:53:48.:53:50.

ministers until a new government is formed but it is important we don't

:53:51.:53:54.

engage in work or make announcement that might affect the election so it

:53:55.:53:58.

is very careful. I shall be full-time campaigning for a good

:53:59.:54:04.

result in the West Midlands Mayra election for Andy Street tomorrow.

:54:05.:54:06.

Thank you very much. Let's return now to the local

:54:07.:54:07.

elections which take place tomorrow. I'm joined by Peter Reeve from Ukip

:54:08.:54:16.

and Jonathan Bartley from the Green party.

:54:17.:54:20.

It looks like this will be a car crash for Ukip tomorrow. Not at all,

:54:21.:54:29.

we stand by the way our councillors have worked and are very proud of

:54:30.:54:32.

everything they have done and it will be a tough election for us. In

:54:33.:54:39.

2030 is the equivalent election was our best election result ever -- in

:54:40.:54:46.

2013. We still have 500 councillors, 147 of those being elected this done

:54:47.:54:49.

so no matter what the result, we will still have at least 350

:54:50.:54:58.

councillors so you cup that Ukip in local council goes on strong. The

:54:59.:55:03.

calculations from Plymouth University based on by-election

:55:04.:55:06.

results suggest you will lose over 100 seats. One of the great things

:55:07.:55:11.

about Ukip, whether or not we hold seats in parliament or elsewhere, we

:55:12.:55:16.

influence and we lead the national debate and we do it locally often

:55:17.:55:20.

but in terms of national politics Ukip has led the way for several

:55:21.:55:24.

years, leading the national agenda. I hope many of our councillors get

:55:25.:55:28.

returned and I expect them to because they are some of the hardest

:55:29.:55:32.

working people in politics in the country. Many of them are cleaning

:55:33.:55:38.

public toilets, clean up the street, quitting the roads, doing a

:55:39.:55:41.

practical job and would big comments we have at it one of the big

:55:42.:55:45.

differences between Ukip and other parties is not only do our

:55:46.:55:49.

councillors work harder but because we have no whip, they genuinely

:55:50.:55:52.

represent their constituents and not told how to vote by their parties

:55:53.:55:58.

like the other parties. Indeed, you you have a long record of defections

:55:59.:56:05.

and revolts! Jonathan Bartley, you are contesting more council feeds

:56:06.:56:08.

than in the past but what would a good result look like? -- council

:56:09.:56:15.

seats. There is a slow and steady build and we are fielding 500 woody

:56:16.:56:22.

for more candidates than 2013 and are hoping to make gains in the

:56:23.:56:26.

north-east and the West Midlands which would not necessarily be

:56:27.:56:28.

strong territory for us and in the Isle of Wight. We have recently

:56:29.:56:33.

taken a seat in by-elections of Ukip and labour and we are looking to

:56:34.:56:36.

build on that. The more people see of us, the more they like the

:56:37.:56:40.

Greens. We don't want to pick and implode like you we want to build

:56:41.:56:44.

steadily. You say the more people see you the more they like you but

:56:45.:56:49.

your party was in charge of Brighton council where you introduced gender

:56:50.:56:56.

neutral council forms and bullet and meat free Mondays in the staff

:56:57.:57:02.

canteen. How scandalous! But you had a problem getting the rubbish

:57:03.:57:05.

collected which seems to be but a fundamental issue for a party that

:57:06.:57:11.

calls itself green. The issue of course was labour and the

:57:12.:57:14.

Conservatives getting together to impose an austerity budget. We were

:57:15.:57:19.

not in overall control, a minor key demonstration in Brighton so we got

:57:20.:57:23.

a lot done, introducing the living wage and more affordable housing and

:57:24.:57:27.

a 20 mph speed limit which cut casualties in five months by 19% and

:57:28.:57:33.

collisions by 20%, things that change lives. That is what local

:57:34.:57:38.

elections tend to be determined by, if you don't deliver on the ground.

:57:39.:57:43.

And when we are not in control and Labour and Conservatives were

:57:44.:57:45.

imposed austerity there was nothing you can do. And what about your

:57:46.:57:53.

record in local government? You won control of Thanet District Council

:57:54.:57:57.

in Kent in 2015 but then lost control because your councillors

:57:58.:58:01.

kept resigning and defecting. We are still in control of that council and

:58:02.:58:05.

we are proud of what they have done. You lost full control. When you look

:58:06.:58:11.

at their output, when that council was run by conservatives and Labour

:58:12.:58:15.

it was described by the LGA as toxic. You could have turned it

:58:16.:58:20.

around and the last LGA report praised Chris Wells and the

:58:21.:58:23.

leadership team and said that Ukip have the Council in good hands. Even

:58:24.:58:28.

today we are talking about reopening Manston airport which is something

:58:29.:58:31.

Labour and the Conservatives gave up and we will build a snag and would

:58:32.:58:36.

build houses all over. We will have to leave it, I thank you both.

:58:37.:58:38.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:39.:58:46.

I'll will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big

:58:47.:58:50.

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