04/05/2017 Daily Politics


04/05/2017

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LineFromTo

Afternoon folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:41.

The final two contenders for the French Presidency go head

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to head in a heated and - at times - ill-tempered debate.

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Who will take the crown in Sunday's election?

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Tommy Robinson takes on the anti-extremism think tank,

:00:53.:00:55.

Quilliam over claims he's on the far right.

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The kit that's keeping us safe from the threat of terrorism -

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can technology help us win the war?

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And what do Donald Trump's tweets tell us about what makes

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Fake news, a sorry state. All fake news. You a fake news. BBC. He's

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another beauty! Never quite thought of the BBC as a

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beauty, but there you go, we will take it in the literal sense.

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All that in the next hour and with us for the duration today

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is the foreign affairs analyst Tim Marshall.

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He used to work for a broadcaster called Sky News -

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now he's much more famous as the editor of a blog called

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First this morning, Buckingham Palace have announced

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that Prince Philip is to stand down from public duties in the Autumn.

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The Prince, who is now 95, will continue his involvement

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with over 780 organisations although he will no longer

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play an active role by attending engagements.

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In the last hour the Prime Minister has reacted

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On behalf of the whole country I want to offer our deepest

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gratitude and good wishes to His Royal Highness

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the Duke of Edinburgh following the announcement

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that he will stand down from public duties in the autumn.

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For his steadfast support for Her Majesty The Queen to his

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inspirational Duke of Edinburgh awards and his patronage of hundreds

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of charities and good causes, his contribution

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to our United Kingdom, the Commonwealth and the wider world

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will be of huge benefit to us all for years to come.

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The Prime Minister there. I guess the Palace has done us a favour an

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ad baby can't talk about elections. They've given us a news story. They

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have, and it was a story you were absolutely loving in the media,

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about 8am, rumours they were going to be a meeting. This mystery. I

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drove past Buckingham Palace and there is wall-to-wall satellite

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trucks and correspondence, everyone rushed down there in case, God

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forbid, someone had fallen under a royal was, quite happily no, it is

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still a big story, I am rather ambivalent about them but I

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understand the role they play in the country and the respect is for them.

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The guy has been around a time and for all the slitty eyed remarks

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except, except at... They are all being published. A great excuse to

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drop them out, I met him once, I don't think he remembers, he met me.

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On balance, some of them were gaps, but put that in perspective of a

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life's worked, the scales or tipped towards him, he has done lot for

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this country. We see him there with his MCC tie on yesterday looking at

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cricket bats, wielded by some of the legends of the game, what I'm not

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sure is has he been, has he got to 95, reducing his engagements and

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this is the natural end to his engagements or is this an abrupt

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end? I've been doing a lot, I'm now not doing anything. You will have to

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go to the royal experts on Matt, I can't work out why do you announce

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this now that he's retiring in the autumn and this is only speculation

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on my behalf, the man is 96, he occasionally fall so, I think they

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are preparing us for the long, slow withdrawal... He looks pretty good

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for 95, 96-year-old, standing bolt upright, walks without any aid or

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assistance am not even a stick. He was in the war and he has carried

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that war bearing, a senior naval officer, in my younger days I did a

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couple of royal in India and Pakistan and you see him striding

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around, lifting children over barriers to get to the Queen.

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Impressive. There we go. Voters in France will be

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going to the polls this Sunday There were originally 11 candidates

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but that was narrowed down to just two in the first-round

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vote last month. The two remaining candidates

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are Emmanuel Macron, from the centrist En Marche party,

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and Marine Le Pen, Neither belonging to the mainstream

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parties in France. The two candidates clashed

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on primetime French In a heated exchange,

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Marine Le Pen accused her rival of being "the candidate

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of savage globalisation". saying Marine Le Pen was "the high

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priestess of fear". on major policy areas

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like the economy, Marine Le Pen is a staunch

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eurosceptic and she's promised an in-out referendum on France's EU

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membership within the first six She would need Parliament to agree

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to that. But Emmanuel Macron is a strong

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supporter of the EU. On a visit to London last month

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he said that he would aim to "defend French and European interests"

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in the Brexit negotiations. with the bookies and the pollsters -

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but it's thought that around a fifth of French voters

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are still undecided. Well, here are the two

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candidates in last It was pretty dramatic television,

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entertaining and enjoyable. TRANSLATION: Mr Macron

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is the candidate of globalisation. TRANSLATION: You've shown that

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you are not the candidate The question is, do the people

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want your defeatist attitude? You say globalisation

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is too hard for us. TRANSLATION: The safety

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of our people and the fight against terror, Islamist extremism,

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you don't want to take it on. Against terrorism we have

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to close our borders. And that's what I'll do

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the moment I take power. TRANSLATION: Closing

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borders achieves nothing. There are many countries outside

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the Schengen area which have been hit as hard as us

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by terrorist attacks. And since 2015 we have put

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back border controls. That gives you a flavour of the

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debate which went on for over two hours.

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Joining me now is Max Begon-Lours from the Front National.

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We did ask En Marche, that's Emmanuel Macron's

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party, for an interview - but they said no one was available.

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But we still have Macs with us. Welcome to the camp -- the country.

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-- to the programme. Your candidate, we thought it would be a game

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changer and it wasn't. I think that's a tough assessment of

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the debate, she wanted to deliver a message that was there has been a

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big marketing project to present Mr Micron as the candidate for change,

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a new candidate and this is not true, he has been in government, a

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member of a socialist party and he hasn't condemned the policies of a

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socialist government. The message was if you are not happy with the

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current government, don't put the vote to Macron because you're going

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to get the same thing for the next five years. I understand that when

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she came back to that again and again, all the woes of the Francois

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Hollande government seemed to be laid at the doorstep of Macron by

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Marine Le Pen but I understand she wanted to paint him as the

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continuity of an unpopular government candidate, so unpopular

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Francois Hollande couldn't run again but is cutting through, we see no

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movement towards her in this campaign. I think you have to look

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at the electorate. Most people who aren't going to vote, who said they

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are going to vote for Macron said they won't change their mind, the

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key message was to change on the side of people. What was important

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to making the decision. Do you think, she was pretty brutal in

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personal terms to Mr Macron, he gave as good as he got what if you are

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trying to get uncommitted voters, maybe vote is closer to the centre,

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is that kind of approach in a debate really likely to get them? I think

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she spoke with her heart, she is furry dissatisfied with the policies

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that are hurting her country, I am as well. A lot of the people were

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trying to convince our very dissatisfied, they have lost their

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jobs, health benefits coming down. It was interesting at the start of

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the debate, her attack on Mr Macron tom on economic policy was from the

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left. At times she sounded like a rage against capitalism, the banker.

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You are a banker. The workers, the state, it was a kind of left Wick --

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left-wing critique of capitalism. I think she's just reflecting the

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opinions of the French people on policy. Mr Macron is supporting

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unrestricted free trade, the offshore moving of French companies,

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you can't just say it left or right, what is in the best interests of the

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French people, we are not against capitalism, we think the economy

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should serve the French people not the French people serving the

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economy. What did you think of the debate? I know you watched it. I was

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gripped. Anoraks are also. The best display I've ever seen of passive

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aggressive smiling from both, when they were calling each other

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traitors and liars they were both smiling. They allowed cutaways, I

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know it is a technical thing in a way but that was an innovation in

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the French presidential debate, to get a split screen. To try and

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rounded, I think the narrative, when she loses and she will these -- lose

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by a good 15-20 points, the far right have been halted in their

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tracks and it's a false narrative, they said it after the Dutch

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elections, the Dutch far right increased their share. People said

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this was a failure, this won't be a failure for the front National, they

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will get this far, Mr Macron will go into power with no MPs, I can't see

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how he will make a good fist of it over the next five years given the

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state Francis and and its policies and I think the candidate of this

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gentleman is far better placed for five years time. Last thing that is

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so important about this, how to rebrand yourself? With respect to

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you, I can see you holding me up either throat against a wall but 20

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years ago when I used to cover your party, time and again at rallies I

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would be held up against a wall by thugs in masks demanding to see my

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passport, and I was a correspondent in Paris. When Marine Le Pen's

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father would talk about the Holocaust, the detail of the Second

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World War, you have moved a long way from there and I think it's a

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brilliant piece of rebranding. How far have you moved? In terms of

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actuality as opposed to brand, Marine Le Pen decided to step down

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temporarily as leader of the National front for the rest of the

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campaign, she chose a man, her stand-in, who is a name EP, he then

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had to step aside because there were allegations he had questioned,

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indeed he had questioned the existence of the Nazi gas chambers?

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People made this allegation. Really? You didn't say, I consider from a

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technical standpoint it is impossible, I stress impossible to

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use the Gas the Nazis used in mass extermination? We are suing the

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people who made this statement for defamation. We know this, he said,

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he doesn't recall participating in the interview. The Parliamentary

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elections, in June, they will be important for whoever is President

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but you don't do well in Parliamentary elections, do you? You

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rarely get through the second round, you won't get a lot of deputies, a

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lot of members of the assembly. Look at the French map, how many

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departments in France, when Marine Le Pen was first, the French

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constituency where she was ahead of Macron, things have changed a lot.

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We will see in June, we have more French elections, we cannot get

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enough of them! Taking up ten's point, is her heart in battling

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through to Ford will be 2020 to cover the next presidential election

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because she had a pretty lacklustre campaign for the round one and even

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last night, she seemed to run out of steam in the final 40-45 minutes.

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She began round one 26, 27 points in the polls and ended up at 22, Ishii

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and for the long term? I think she's in for the long term, I'm not privy

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to what she wants to do. I definitely think she has the skills

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to do this, look at what she achieved in five years, taking us to

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the second round with polls showing us at 40%, it's incredible. We are

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clearly the main opposition now to these policies. We will see. Your

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final thought, they will be the main opposition in parliament. They want

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and that is the problem, he had a substantial share of the National

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boat in France but it doesn't transfer into seats which means the

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people who think the system is rigged against them will continue to

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think that, which means the fissures in French society will continue and

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briefly, I am not accusing you of being a fascist, your party was a

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fascist party under Marine Le Pen's father, I notice add your

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headquarters you have black and Arab people, you haven't ditched that

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tinge of fascism, have you? The media haven't ditched it, which is

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the argument. We shall see, the results coming through I think, the

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polls close at 8pm on Sunday night, is that right, French time? We will

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get the exit polls at 7pm London time. Usually by the second round,

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they are pretty accurate. Tim has recently written

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a book about the power and politics of flags,

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so he should know more about them The question for today

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is which of these flags is the odd one out,

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in that it is still the flag Is it a) Union flag with red,

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white and blue stripes? b) Union flag with red

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and white hoizontal stripes? c) Defaced red ensign featuring

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a heraldic shield in the fly? Or d) Defaced light

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blue ensign featuring At the end of the show Tim will give

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us the correct answer. I won't. LAUGHTER

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Or you can send his book back. LAUGHTER

:17:18.:17:19.

Over the past three years the activities of the extremist

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group so-called Islamic State, has made many headlines.

:17:23.:17:24.

But is their reign of terror coming to an end?

:17:25.:17:26.

The group has now lost much of the territory it once

:17:27.:17:29.

In a moment we'll hear from Tim but first Emma Vardy takes a look

:17:30.:17:38.

... The city of Mosul and rapidly advanced to the capital Baghdad. At

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its peak ices controlled half of Syria and large parts of Iraq. --

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ices controlled for the timid in people were living under their

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control. The jihadists claimed they had a caliphate and Brislington

:18:08.:18:17.

renamed themselves Islamic State. Kurdish fighters recaptured the

:18:18.:18:21.

northern Syrian town of Kobani in 2015 and since then Kurdish led

:18:22.:18:26.

forces have driven IS out of thousands of square kilometres of

:18:27.:18:32.

northern Syria. At the end of 2014, they have this mission statement of

:18:33.:18:35.

remaining and expanding, that was their mantra, but now they not

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remaining and they are certainly not expanding. Their fundamental

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elements to their success in 2014 have been challenged and how they

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continue to adapt under this coalition is a huge question. The

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current focus of the battle in Iraq is the control of Mosul, the

:18:57.:19:01.

jihadists last major stronghold, the eastern half of the city has now

:19:02.:19:05.

been liberated but taking Western Mosul is expected to be tough with

:19:06.:19:10.

more densely populated districts. As IS has lost key cities and other

:19:11.:19:17.

crucial factors have been the loss of funding. The maximum amount of

:19:18.:19:26.

money that was earned by Isis was $2 billion coming from oil and

:19:27.:19:30.

extortion and confiscations. And now we believe their funding has dogged

:19:31.:19:38.

by -- dropped by about 50% and they have lost access to Keira fine

:19:39.:19:44.

arrays and they can't tax their large population centres that they

:19:45.:19:47.

had previously -- lost access to key oil refineries. The drone strikes

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have also led to the deaths of key IS figures.

:19:56.:20:06.

Can't post a serious threat to the UK, according to a Parliamentary

:20:07.:20:19.

report -- Khan posed. There is expected to be a bloody battle for

:20:20.:20:23.

Raqqa in the coming months. Black flags are not flying as high as they

:20:24.:20:28.

used to, such as here, which was taken back from IS in the past week.

:20:29.:20:33.

Many smaller villages have also been liberated from their control, but

:20:34.:20:36.

those on the ground said defeating IS in the more populated towns and

:20:37.:20:44.

cities is much slower work. I spoke to a journalist from northern Syria

:20:45.:20:48.

yesterday afternoon and he described how IS resource into ever more

:20:49.:20:57.

brutal tactics. In small villages IS fighters are not showing any

:20:58.:21:03.

resistance, because if they did, they will give coordinates and they

:21:04.:21:09.

will bomb the area directly, but it is different regarding big towns and

:21:10.:21:12.

cities. IS has now lost more than half the

:21:13.:21:33.

ground it once held. But the battle to eradicate the group will continue

:21:34.:21:37.

to result in many lives being lost on all sides. Fighting groups on the

:21:38.:21:42.

ground in conjunction with air strikes from the United States led

:21:43.:21:53.

coalition will make sure there are areas continue to diminish, but what

:21:54.:21:57.

is next clear is what comes next. -- make sure there are areas continue

:21:58.:22:06.

to diminish. The caliphate is still there, why? Because they have not

:22:07.:22:11.

put ground troops in and they are relying on the Kurds to do it and

:22:12.:22:16.

they will do it. In answer to the question, are they willing, no,

:22:17.:22:19.

because they are losing these battles but they are not losing the

:22:20.:22:24.

war. They will lose the rest of Mosul this year, and they will

:22:25.:22:28.

probably lose Raqqa by this time next year, and Raqqa is very

:22:29.:22:35.

important because it has been spoken at the end of days will happen when

:22:36.:22:40.

the black flags disappear. They have done what Al-Qaeda have never did,

:22:41.:22:43.

they have taken territory and held it to create the caliphate. They

:22:44.:22:48.

have made themselves the big boys, but they are going to lose. But the

:22:49.:22:52.

ideology that underpins them and Al-Qaeda and others is not lost.

:22:53.:22:58.

They will scatter into Afghanistan and other countries, into the weaker

:22:59.:23:02.

areas of China, and we will see an outbreak of violence in many of

:23:03.:23:05.

those places and in Europe. They will continue to recruit. The

:23:06.:23:10.

ongoing battle which is generational because the ideology is still

:23:11.:23:14.

embedded in enough people to make it a massive threat. So they are losing

:23:15.:23:19.

the people, but the war is ongoing which we will find out over the

:23:20.:23:25.

generations. Tens of thousands of troops had been deployed to Mosul

:23:26.:23:29.

and they have been backed by Allied British and American and other

:23:30.:23:34.

special forces and air power. And yet it has taken a long while. I

:23:35.:23:39.

remember people said it won't be over by Christmas, meeting last

:23:40.:23:42.

year, but it probably will be over not long after that, and it is still

:23:43.:23:49.

not over. I'm no military expert but I never thought that. I think maybe

:23:50.:23:56.

by this time next year they will be pushed out of Raqqa and even then

:23:57.:24:00.

there is a problem. If the Kurds go there, that's not a Kurdish area,

:24:01.:24:04.

that is a Sunni area and that will cause problems. We're not talking

:24:05.:24:09.

about the American overwhelming firepower, even though they have it.

:24:10.:24:13.

But they are not flattening everything and Mosul is the most

:24:14.:24:19.

populous city in Iraq. So you can either fats push them out and take

:24:20.:24:26.

400,000 civilian casualties or go street by street and take several

:24:27.:24:29.

thousand civilian casualties. That is what is happening. It is awful

:24:30.:24:36.

and bloody but this is part of the war and Isis is going to lose it but

:24:37.:24:41.

another group called Isis Mach two will be there in a couple of years.

:24:42.:24:49.

-- mark. President Trump said defeating Isis would be his top

:24:50.:24:52.

priority. Well, he said a lot of things. Do you discern any change in

:24:53.:24:58.

policy towards Islamic State from America? Not really. There was wild

:24:59.:25:05.

speculation that he was going to put 300,000 ground troops in, but that

:25:06.:25:10.

was nonsense. So far there have been extra special forces into Jordan and

:25:11.:25:15.

into Syria, and they are ramping up and I would not rule out more going,

:25:16.:25:21.

and they are also now floated to the front lines. There was a casualties

:25:22.:25:27.

last week, I think. I don't think the United States really cares about

:25:28.:25:32.

Syria. It is not as important for them strategically and they are far

:25:33.:25:35.

more concerned about what is happening in the South China Sea and

:25:36.:25:39.

other parts of the world. We will leave it there, Tim, thank you for

:25:40.:25:41.

that. Now - there's one story that the BBC

:25:42.:25:44.

won't be reporting today - and that's the general election

:25:45.:25:47.

campaign. That's because voters in most parts

:25:48.:25:48.

of the UK are going to the polls for the local elections -

:25:49.:25:51.

and there are strict rules about how the broadcasters can report

:25:52.:25:54.

politics on polling day. But we can tell you what elections

:25:55.:25:56.

are happening today: The local elections are currently

:25:57.:25:59.

underway in England, The polls opened at 7 this

:26:00.:26:01.

morning and they close In England, there are elections

:26:02.:26:08.

for 34 councils, with 2,370 There are also eight mayoral

:26:09.:26:12.

elections in England, with voters going to the polls

:26:13.:26:22.

in the West Midlands, Greater Manchester, Doncaster,

:26:23.:26:25.

North Tyneside and elsewhere. In Scotland, every seat in all 32

:26:26.:26:26.

councils is up for election. And it's the same in Wales -

:26:27.:26:35.

every seat in the 22 Welsh councils The Daily Politics

:26:36.:26:39.

is off-air tomorrow. But do tune in to BBC Two from 9am,

:26:40.:26:47.

where Huw Edwards will be bringing you all the results

:26:48.:26:50.

and analysis in a special local Now - the former leader

:26:51.:26:53.

of the English Defence League, Tommy Robinson, raided the offices

:26:54.:27:00.

of the anti-extremism think-tank, Quilliam, earlier this week claiming

:27:01.:27:05.

that one of the organisation's authors had labelled him

:27:06.:27:14.

a 'white supremicist'. Quilliam ejected Mr Robinson

:27:15.:27:15.

and the cameraman who was with him and have made a complaint

:27:16.:27:19.

to the police. We'll be talking to Tommy

:27:20.:27:22.

Robinson and Haras Rafiq First here's footage of the incident

:27:23.:27:24.

filmed for the online So today we are going

:27:25.:27:27.

to an organisation called Quilliam. And the reason I'm going there

:27:28.:27:34.

is one of their leading researchers, a lady called Julia,

:27:35.:27:36.

she wrote an article yesterday in The Guardian where she declares

:27:37.:27:39.

I'm a white supremacist. So you haven't got an appointment?

:27:40.:27:41.

No. OK.

:27:42.:27:44.

So do you mind coming this way? Come on.

:27:45.:27:46.

Yeah. Do you mind if I ask why I'm

:27:47.:27:50.

a white supremacist? I did not say that you were

:27:51.:28:03.

a white supremacist. No, I did not.

:28:04.:28:05.

You can read the exact article. Come on, Julia.

:28:06.:28:09.

to break his camera? And Haras Rafiq, the Chief Executive

:28:10.:28:19.

of Quilliam joins us now, Mr Robinson. You often complain that

:28:20.:28:31.

you arbitrate as much more extreme than you say you are, but is

:28:32.:28:36.

bursting into an office like that, and ending in a fracas, helps in the

:28:37.:28:41.

image you want to portray? The doors were open and I was very polite and

:28:42.:28:51.

I walked with once -- one cameraman. Bearing in mind that the lady called

:28:52.:28:56.

me a white supremacist. This is about people who support me, working

:28:57.:28:59.

class people at home who have been pigeonholed as extremists and

:29:00.:29:02.

racists and far right when they are not. They have genuine concerns and

:29:03.:29:11.

right STUDIO: -- euro they have genuine concerns and fears.

:29:12.:29:18.

Should you be on the side of Quilliam? If they are what they say

:29:19.:29:32.

they are. Why are they named after Quilliam? They need to be named

:29:33.:29:41.

after a true reformer. They do a lot of work to promote moderation. Only

:29:42.:29:46.

people in that office who wear certain ties are allowed to have an

:29:47.:29:49.

opinion and everyone else is called a far right extremist. You have

:29:50.:29:54.

attended rallies and you have tweeted endorsements of groups like

:29:55.:30:00.

Britain first. I have reported on a demonstration by Britain first and I

:30:01.:30:03.

have also done that for Muslim demonstrations. The reason I'm

:30:04.:30:08.

going, because the truth is not being related to the people at home.

:30:09.:30:13.

The mainstream media, they are all reporting fake news and they are

:30:14.:30:19.

lying to people. Quilliam, they have lied to people but when the video

:30:20.:30:24.

goes online, it shows what happens, I was not bullying and intimidating.

:30:25.:30:31.

You were trespassing. There was an open door and I walked into the

:30:32.:30:34.

office. We should be talking about what that lady said. I will come to

:30:35.:30:42.

that in a minute. You retweeted a Britain first video about fake news

:30:43.:30:49.

and media lies, and that does associate you with extremist groups.

:30:50.:30:55.

I also retweeted an article on Isis which wish showing the facts about

:30:56.:31:00.

them and that is not associated me with them -- which was. It is the

:31:01.:31:06.

facts as seen by a hard right group. I'm not here to talk about me for

:31:07.:31:13.

top and to talk about the demonisation of people like me. This

:31:14.:31:18.

has gone on for ten years. It's not fair.

:31:19.:31:24.

On this Guardian comment piece, you effectively called him fight

:31:25.:31:32.

supremacist. Let me clarify, the position on Tommy further he is a

:31:33.:31:37.

supremacist or not, Tommy knows me, he has been to my house, he knows my

:31:38.:31:41.

family, he knows I am not someone with a vendor against him and he

:31:42.:31:45.

knows what I stand for so I'm surprised as Chief Executive he says

:31:46.:31:49.

Quilliam stands for something else. The position is not that Tommy is a

:31:50.:31:55.

fight supremacist. An article was written by someone, I wasn't... A

:31:56.:32:00.

senior researcher... The process needs to be change that I get

:32:01.:32:03.

everything out. Did you not that this? I did not. Can I let our

:32:04.:32:08.

viewers know what was said. What this woman wrote for the Guardian,

:32:09.:32:15.

the far right has moved from the fringe into the mainstream. It

:32:16.:32:18.

demonstrates massive support that fight supremacist and movements have

:32:19.:32:22.

attracted, there online followership also does cars Tommy Robinson's

:32:23.:32:30.

Twitter account as has almost the same number as Theresa May. Although

:32:31.:32:36.

she didn't write Tommy Robinson is a fight supremacist it would be hard

:32:37.:32:42.

to come to any other conclusion when you read the logic, the chronology

:32:43.:32:51.

of that article. OK, let me again reiterate the position, Tommy

:32:52.:32:54.

Robinson is not a fight supremacist as far as Quilliam is concerned.

:32:55.:32:58.

Tommy could have rang me and we could have sorted this out, but we

:32:59.:33:03.

are for we are and we will sort this out. I have spoken to the author,

:33:04.:33:07.

the article was not meant to say he is a fight supremacist, it could

:33:08.:33:11.

have been worded better, absolutely, according to her it was meant to say

:33:12.:33:16.

that Tommy has followers as many organisations do who are not fight

:33:17.:33:19.

supremacist and will attract people who are white supremacists because

:33:20.:33:23.

sometimes they will feel attracted to a message, not necessarily his

:33:24.:33:27.

fault... It was clumsily worded. I think it should have been worded

:33:28.:33:31.

differently and my reading that was not to say that Tommy is a white

:33:32.:33:36.

supremacist. He said live on network television he doesn't think you are

:33:37.:33:41.

a white supremacist. Everyone knows I am not fight supremacist, this was

:33:42.:33:46.

assigned to... It is not just about me, it's about people who support

:33:47.:33:50.

me, it's frustrating, I meet people in the street who don't like me and

:33:51.:33:53.

they don't not fight they don't like me, I get attacked regularly and

:33:54.:33:56.

when I get down to talking to them, one person, I went to his house,

:33:57.:34:01.

everything he thought I stood for I didn't stand for and that's because

:34:02.:34:04.

of articles like this, fake news. For I come back to you, do you

:34:05.:34:10.

accept what he now says? Because his Medicare, he doesn't think what the

:34:11.:34:15.

article implies. There is no way that article was not written to

:34:16.:34:20.

imply that, that was wrote to... It says the far right dehumanises

:34:21.:34:24.

Muslims, exactly what she has done to me, she humanised me as standing

:34:25.:34:29.

for something I'm not. I've made the official position of Quilliam

:34:30.:34:34.

officially clear, I and Chief Executive, Julia is not. Am I an

:34:35.:34:40.

extremist? I have never called you an extremist. I didn't read any of

:34:41.:34:45.

us, all of these things, these are lies. From local government

:34:46.:34:50.

funded... First of all it is not government funded and that is a lie

:34:51.:34:55.

and you know it isn't. Number two, breaking into, going into an office

:34:56.:35:01.

on and fight it, being asked to leave, trespassing for a political

:35:02.:35:05.

grievance is political extremism. It is. By definition it is. And

:35:06.:35:15.

secondly, emulating tactics that Britain first and other

:35:16.:35:17.

organisations use sets a dangerous precedent. Emulating

:35:18.:35:20.

emulating tactics emulating tactics of owing, these people, there were

:35:21.:35:32.

people in the office yesterday, women who have never met Tommy who

:35:33.:35:36.

were genuinely scared. Genuinely scared because of the lies that

:35:37.:35:41.

people like... They were scared because you and cameramen came in

:35:42.:35:46.

and you were forcing a microphone uninvited, unexpected into some of's

:35:47.:35:50.

face on private property and the point is, had you rang me and I

:35:51.:35:54.

called you, and it's on the video, I said wait for me, it's on the video,

:35:55.:35:58.

people can see it, please let me finish, is said to you very calmly

:35:59.:36:02.

and I say it again now, the offer is there to sort this out, I say to you

:36:03.:36:06.

calmly on the phone I am in a meeting, you have travelled all the

:36:07.:36:09.

way down from Luton, there is a copy shop nearby, wait for me. Hundreds

:36:10.:36:14.

of thousands of people through the Guardian have read this article but

:36:15.:36:18.

says this... You wanted sorted? We will sorted. But we wouldn't be

:36:19.:36:25.

having this conversation... Afterwards,... This was a pretty

:36:26.:36:29.

good publicity stunt. Imagine, I had to ring up and use a fake name to

:36:30.:36:37.

get only radio show. What he said afterwards, I wouldn't have taken

:36:38.:36:40.

the call if I knew it was Tommy Robinson, do I expect he will sit

:36:41.:36:44.

down and talk to me? I am the Chief Executive of Quilliam, you know

:36:45.:36:48.

that, I have had you at my house. I want to bring in Tim Marshall, he

:36:49.:36:55.

will be the umpire. Let me ask you, you say you are not an extremist,

:36:56.:36:59.

what were you an extremist? I've never been an extremist, ever. Were

:37:00.:37:04.

you not a member of the DMP? We've gone through this. We've done this.

:37:05.:37:10.

Rent you a member at one stage? I was a member when I joined because

:37:11.:37:15.

of what was happening in 2009. You were extras? I wasn't. I was 21

:37:16.:37:22.

years old and I joined an organisation... While we are on

:37:23.:37:31.

subject, justice for Chelsea .com, people need to sign into that

:37:32.:37:36.

because English girls across the country are being raped... You

:37:37.:37:38.

cannot use us for that. Let me correct something. ... Is not in

:37:39.:37:49.

jail for terrorism... Tim Marshall, you'd been listening to this, you

:37:50.:37:54.

know the issues. What's your view? I've followed both organisations for

:37:55.:37:56.

many years, I've seen ten minutes you put on on your TV channel

:37:57.:38:04.

online. And I have to say this is the way to sort things out. And

:38:05.:38:09.

quite encouraged by this and I can see that you don't think this man is

:38:10.:38:14.

a white supremacist, nor do I. I'm not going to see a -- say a plague

:38:15.:38:19.

on both your houses because I get for you are both coming from. You've

:38:20.:38:23.

framed it in class terms and I understand that the cause I have

:38:24.:38:28.

some sympathy for the view that the moment you come out with a

:38:29.:38:32.

working-class voice people stop listening to what you are saying,

:38:33.:38:36.

they listened to the accident and not the words, that is part of the

:38:37.:38:40.

problem with people sneering Brexit borders. By frame it -- I know for

:38:41.:38:47.

you are coming from. You said to Jeremy Paxman, your kids don't go to

:38:48.:38:52.

the school were my kids go. We are running out of time. But... This is

:38:53.:38:57.

not trying to be patronising but it's not the way to do things, you

:38:58.:39:01.

did barge into an office, a place of work, you did shove cameras, your

:39:02.:39:07.

guys need media training, don't put your hand on the camera. The big

:39:08.:39:11.

problem is lies in the national media. That is a point you made

:39:12.:39:19.

several times. We will leave there, thank you both for being with us.

:39:20.:39:23.

Now - since 7/7 the the threat from Islamist inspired terrorism has

:39:24.:39:26.

been ever-present and the threat level in the UK remains at severe.

:39:27.:39:29.

Despite subsequent loss of life thankfully most

:39:30.:39:31.

plots have been thwarted, not least thanks to the expertise

:39:32.:39:33.

Adam visited the Security and Anti Terror Expo in west London

:39:34.:39:37.

where some of that expertise was on display.

:39:38.:39:44.

250 companies are exhibiting and over the next two days 10,000

:39:45.:39:47.

But if you ain't a security industry professional you ain't getting in.

:39:48.:39:55.

So come through the world's first ballistic protected shutter to see

:39:56.:39:58.

Celebrities if they want to have it on their house.

:39:59.:40:15.

How much would one of these cost me if I wanted to protect

:40:16.:40:18.

How about an EU funded project that uses virtual reality to whisk

:40:19.:40:26.

What am I doing, I'm looking for someone with a suspicious bag?

:40:27.:40:31.

Sorry, excuse me, I'm opening the bag.

:40:32.:40:34.

It's actually a parachute that turns into a boat.

:40:35.:40:42.

For dogs that jump out of helicopters.

:40:43.:40:45.

But, as the goodies go high-tech, the baddies are going low.

:40:46.:40:50.

Bob Broadhurst ran the police operation for the 2012 Olympics.

:40:51.:40:53.

All you need is a car, a knife or a gun.

:40:54.:40:58.

And I think that's where the current trend is looking towards.

:40:59.:41:03.

Moving away from the technicalities of making a bomb and delivering it

:41:04.:41:06.

in a vehicle or a plane, to anybody in this room

:41:07.:41:09.

being a potential terrorist, and that is a huge challenge.

:41:10.:41:12.

Not just for the people at events like this,

:41:13.:41:14.

So this event is as much about sharing expertise

:41:15.:41:18.

And we're joined now by the former head of the Metropolitan Police

:41:19.:41:27.

anti-terrorism command, Richard Walton.

:41:28.:41:33.

Welcome to the programme. This technology making a difference in

:41:34.:41:39.

the counterterrorism efforts that we have to make? As we have seen in

:41:40.:41:43.

your clip there, obviously there are terrorist attacks have link with

:41:44.:41:48.

very unsophisticated, the one that happened in Westminster was probably

:41:49.:41:51.

the least sophisticated you can possibly imagine, each others

:41:52.:41:56.

doesn't have a car and a kitchen knife... And the same in Nice and

:41:57.:42:02.

Berlin. Nevertheless, terrorists learn from experience, we know they

:42:03.:42:07.

are using technology overseas, for instance, Islamic State are using

:42:08.:42:14.

drum technologies, they index -- developing drum capabilities and we

:42:15.:42:17.

need to be aware of where the threat is going because the threat is

:42:18.:42:22.

constantly changing. Although we've had low-level attack she wouldn't

:42:23.:42:26.

rule out the use of technology by the terrorists that we need to

:42:27.:42:30.

counteract? Absolutely not done they think this is what this expo is

:42:31.:42:35.

about, it's about thinking about the wider threats, for it these threats

:42:36.:42:38.

could go next, there is a lot of concern around cyber terrorism, we

:42:39.:42:43.

haven't seen it yet but of course we know there is intent, we know

:42:44.:42:46.

Islamic State, if they could, weaponised using chemical and

:42:47.:42:50.

biological weapons they would do so, it's wise and sensible to get

:42:51.:42:54.

professionals together across a range of disciplines to talk about

:42:55.:42:57.

these issues and look at the counter measures you can put in place to

:42:58.:43:01.

mitigate those threats. I'm told Britain is pretty good at this sort

:43:02.:43:05.

of stuff in the sense that we are at the cutting edge of quite a lot of

:43:06.:43:08.

developments. Is that related to the fact that long before we had to deal

:43:09.:43:15.

with Islamist terrorism we had 30 years of the IRA? Sure, when I

:43:16.:43:20.

standard -- started on counterterrorism in 1989 there were

:43:21.:43:24.

six officers dealing with counterterrorism at one desk, fun I

:43:25.:43:27.

left there were 6000 dealing with international terrorism, now there

:43:28.:43:32.

is six I understand the link with the Irish terror threat on the

:43:33.:43:34.

mainland but more across Northern Ireland. The terrorism threat is

:43:35.:43:41.

constantly changing. In the end, you need, it's the old-fashioned talking

:43:42.:43:44.

to people, shoe leather, the Pops from the local community, the

:43:45.:43:50.

heightened sense of vigilance, all below text I would think still

:43:51.:43:55.

matters. A key plank of the British counterterrorism strategy is

:43:56.:43:59.

absolutely that, engagement, prevent strategy, getting people to come

:44:00.:44:02.

forward, encouraging the Muslim community to talk to officials and

:44:03.:44:05.

police and to a large extent, that's worked. Look at the last three

:44:06.:44:11.

years, talking about 15 disrupted plots, regrettably, one got through

:44:12.:44:15.

in Westminster. It would have been hard to detect, in Westminster. An

:44:16.:44:20.

individual who apparently had no connection with other terrorists

:44:21.:44:23.

overseas, but we are aware of, incredibly difficult to disrupt

:44:24.:44:26.

those kind of plots but I think we need to be and put it into

:44:27.:44:30.

perspective, in the same time period we've seen plenty attacks in France,

:44:31.:44:37.

five in Germany, and the French themselves have stopped a lot. A

:44:38.:44:42.

number of victims and small ones get through. Two disrupted attacks in

:44:43.:44:48.

France in the last two weeks, the threat continues, I agree with Tim's

:44:49.:44:51.

assessment earlier on, once the physical camel -- caliphate in

:44:52.:44:56.

Islamic State is defeated and let's hope that happen soon, the virtual

:44:57.:45:00.

caliphate if you like, the way the ideology can be spread through

:45:01.:45:04.

social media in particular, will interview and we need to work harder

:45:05.:45:08.

on digital radicalisation and taking of the websites, some of the

:45:09.:45:11.

material on this radicalising youth. That brings us full circle, that's

:45:12.:45:13.

for a technology comes. Thank you. Now, once upon a time if you wanted

:45:14.:45:21.

to know the thinking of a foreign government you may have had to wait

:45:22.:45:24.

months for an envoy's letter If you were curious

:45:25.:45:28.

about the innermost thoughts of a foreign head of state,

:45:29.:45:32.

well, you'd have to ask your But nowadays you can put

:45:33.:45:35.

the cloak-and-dagger away and simply Never before has the world seen

:45:36.:45:40.

someone with as much power as Donald Trump also be willing

:45:41.:45:43.

to tweet about how it We thought we'd take a look

:45:44.:45:46.

back at some of the US President's greatest hits

:45:47.:45:53.

on the platform over the years - with a little help from

:45:54.:45:56.

impressionist Lewis Macleod. Just when the newspaper editor has

:45:57.:45:58.

the headlines ready, I It's just awfully good that someone

:45:59.:46:09.

with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law

:46:10.:46:27.

in our country. Politicians are all

:46:28.:46:29.

talk and no action. Washington can only be

:46:30.:46:37.

fixed by an outsider. You've called women you don't

:46:38.:46:41.

like fat pigs, dogs, I refuse to call

:46:42.:47:00.

Megyn Kelly a bimbo. Because that would not be

:47:01.:47:08.

politically correct. Instead I will only call her

:47:09.:47:11.

a lightweight reporter. A great movement is verified

:47:12.:47:13.

and crooked opponents try to belittle our

:47:14.:47:31.

victory with fake news. BBC.

:47:32.:47:33.

Here's another beauty. Many people have said I'm

:47:34.:47:44.

the world's greatest writer of 140 It's War and Peace, right

:47:45.:47:46.

there, 140 characters. You know, to send a tweet, birdsong,

:47:47.:47:53.

it's the same thing. I can't do it, but my

:47:54.:47:55.

words are great. You know, starlings,

:47:56.:48:02.

chaffinches, eagles. A bit heavy on your shoulder

:48:03.:48:07.

when they land on you. Lewis Macleod, there,

:48:08.:48:13.

who occasionally deputises for the President in the radio

:48:14.:48:25.

programme Dead Ringers. We're joined now by

:48:26.:48:27.

the journalist Peter Oborne. He's written a book

:48:28.:48:29.

examining every single one Why did you put yourself through

:48:30.:48:43.

this? This is what explains how he became President of the United

:48:44.:48:45.

States of America. You think it is that important? That is what he

:48:46.:48:52.

says. Is that true? He invented a new political language. It was a

:48:53.:48:58.

very very significant thing. Very often the case that a new political

:48:59.:49:04.

force comes to a new medium. Reza felt and his -- Reza felt -- Teddy

:49:05.:49:17.

Roosevelt and his fireside chats. JFK and TV, he was the first to

:49:18.:49:22.

really understand TV. It is the awful truth, President Trump was the

:49:23.:49:29.

first to grip Twitter, that was the medium which gave him his fullest

:49:30.:49:34.

expression. And allowed him to escape the evil mainstream media.

:49:35.:49:38.

And speak directly to voters and his followers. Exactly so. And mediated,

:49:39.:49:46.

which is the aim of all political dictators. -- not mediated. You get

:49:47.:49:55.

in the way sometimes, Andrew! It was very simple, message which cannot be

:49:56.:49:59.

contradicted, brutal, very funny sometimes. What do we glean about Mr

:50:00.:50:11.

Trump? What have you concluded? Quite a serious thing. Of course. He

:50:12.:50:19.

is funny, he's brilliant, but also he's much more sinister than I

:50:20.:50:24.

realised. I tended to think that he was a buffoon, right wing buffoon,

:50:25.:50:28.

and we have plenty of those everywhere, but if you read through

:50:29.:50:33.

this, the links with very sinister far right movements, there is one

:50:34.:50:38.

which he retweeted, white genocide, and I felt ashamed even to open it.

:50:39.:50:45.

When was that? About two years ago. You open it and go through to very

:50:46.:50:48.

sophisticated Adolf Hitler propaganda. Did you know what he was

:50:49.:50:54.

doing? Do you give him the benefit of the doubt? There were links...

:50:55.:51:05.

Ross Limbo, he's extremely nasty. Radio shock jock? Yes. The

:51:06.:51:13.

conspiracy theorists, anti-vaccine, the birth conspiracies. These are

:51:14.:51:19.

things he retweets? And actually plays with and entertains them and

:51:20.:51:25.

gives them space. Is there a change. He was doing this when he wasn't

:51:26.:51:29.

president. Before he was running, as well. Is he more careful now? Yeah,

:51:30.:51:36.

I think years. Now that he's in the White House, much of the more rancid

:51:37.:51:41.

anti-Muslim staff has gone. He did that before? Very ugly. About

:51:42.:51:51.

Muslims. Yeah. What do you make of it? We are going to look back at

:51:52.:51:56.

this as historians and this is the first president to get the new

:51:57.:51:59.

medium. Twitter is a shorthand for the new medium. I watched the White

:52:00.:52:07.

House press briefings with Sean Spicer, directly through the White

:52:08.:52:11.

House website, and I don't watch it from the 24-hour news channels. I

:52:12.:52:17.

watched the feed and he has got that, that people now go round it.

:52:18.:52:22.

Regarding Twitter, I love to say I told you, I said a couple of years

:52:23.:52:27.

ago that he is not a buffoon. You have got to listen with EE of the

:52:28.:52:30.

Pittsburgh steel worker. -- and listen with EE. And he has now

:52:31.:52:37.

started to come down. I think he is dangerous and sinister and deeply on

:52:38.:52:41.

present and he's using 21st century technology with a bold ideology, but

:52:42.:52:47.

he remains not as dangerous as most people think -- with a 20th-century

:52:48.:52:54.

ideology. Some people thought he would stop when he got into the

:52:55.:52:58.

White House. The tone might have changed, but he still sees this as a

:52:59.:53:03.

weapon in his media wars. He promised he would stop, but he has

:53:04.:53:09.

actually continued. And it got worse. These tweets at 3am, the

:53:10.:53:19.

mixture of bruised ego about celebrity and game shows with

:53:20.:53:25.

threats of world War three, all mingling into aid arranged cocktail.

:53:26.:53:31.

-- into a torrential sub you would think he had more on his mind. Well,

:53:32.:53:37.

he's not a deep thinker. Now if you like trumpet fanfares

:53:38.:53:43.

and ceremonial costumes, you'll love this item,

:53:44.:53:51.

because while we have been on air the proclamation summoning

:53:52.:53:54.

a new UK Parliament, which was signed by the Queen

:53:55.:53:56.

yesterday afternoon, Whereas we and by and with

:53:57.:53:58.

the advice of our Privy Council. Being desirous and resolved, as soon

:53:59.:54:03.

as may be to meet our people, and to have their

:54:04.:54:07.

advice in Parliament. The proclamation arrived in

:54:08.:54:19.

Edinburgh and the cameras were there to witness the event. It was the

:54:20.:54:24.

summons of a new parliament for the 13th of June.

:54:25.:54:26.

And we can talk to someone now who was involved in that parade -

:54:27.:54:29.

the Rothesay Herald of Arms, Sir Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw

:54:30.:54:32.

What was the purpose of today's pageantry? The purpose of a

:54:33.:54:50.

proclamation is to announce from the cross where people use together, any

:54:51.:54:57.

ball news which is important for the kingdom -- where people used to

:54:58.:55:02.

gather together, any oil news. Proclamation was the best way of

:55:03.:55:07.

getting royal news out to all the boroughs in Scotland. We maintain

:55:08.:55:14.

that addition to this day in respect, used be dissolutions of

:55:15.:55:19.

Parliament and the calling of new parliaments and also for announcing

:55:20.:55:24.

the succession of Nick and calling coronation and so on. -- succession

:55:25.:55:32.

of a monarch. We are now historically more limited and the

:55:33.:55:35.

most common ones are in relation to Parliament as happens today. The

:55:36.:55:41.

Queen issued this in London, but you proclaimed this in Edinburgh. Are

:55:42.:55:45.

there other parts of the country where this is proclaimed? The City

:55:46.:55:53.

of London, Cryer reads the proclamation in the City of London

:55:54.:55:59.

and the Lord line reads it in Scotland. Until the last couple, the

:56:00.:56:05.

Scottish one was always five days after the London one, because that

:56:06.:56:10.

was how long it took for the horse to get from London to Edinburgh with

:56:11.:56:16.

the proclamation. People used to say that Scottish MPs when title to five

:56:17.:56:20.

days extirpate because Parliament had not been dissolved in Scotland

:56:21.:56:25.

-- five days extirpate. Until we read the proclamation. Did it all go

:56:26.:56:33.

well today? It went like clockwork? Yes, everything went very well, we

:56:34.:56:36.

had a shorter time to get the ceremony together. The army turned

:56:37.:56:42.

up and did their part very well. It is a great privilege to take part in

:56:43.:56:48.

these ceremonials. We know it is a busy day. Thanks for joining us. So

:56:49.:57:00.

resplendent, as well. We have had Mori action to the announcement that

:57:01.:57:04.

Prince Philip is stepping down from his public engagements in the autumn

:57:05.:57:10.

-- mort reaction. He has dedicated his life to public service and to

:57:11.:57:13.

supporting the Queen. He has more than earned his retirement. Prince

:57:14.:57:18.

Philip, as well as the support he is given the Queen and his own public

:57:19.:57:21.

service, has done an amazing amount of charity work, especially to the

:57:22.:57:26.

Duke of Edinburgh awards which in Scotland has helped millions of

:57:27.:57:35.

young people. I think he is the one who has gone about his public

:57:36.:57:38.

engagements with a sense of humour and people will be appreciative of

:57:39.:57:44.

what he has done and will wish you all the best for a happy and

:57:45.:57:48.

peaceful retirement. -- will wish him. You can keep abreast of all of

:57:49.:57:52.

that on BBC News. There's just time before we go

:57:53.:57:54.

to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was which of these

:57:55.:57:57.

flags is the odd one out, in that it is still the flag

:57:58.:58:01.

of a sovereign nation. You can see them all there. Tim,

:58:02.:58:14.

which one? I thought if I could speak slowly enough we would run out

:58:15.:58:19.

of time. One of those is Hawaii and I think the nation state one is the

:58:20.:58:26.

bottom right. You are right. That is the Fiji flag and that is still the

:58:27.:58:30.

flag of the nation state. Well done. The one o'clock news is starting

:58:31.:58:37.

over on BBC One now. I will be back tonight

:58:38.:58:42.

with Michael Portillo, Lisa Nandy, Lionel Barber,

:58:43.:58:43.

Adrian Chiles, Miranda Green and the comedian Simon Evans

:58:44.:58:47.

on This Week from 1145. We are making way for rolling

:58:48.:58:52.

election coverage tomorrow

:58:53.:58:57.

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