22/05/2017 Daily Politics


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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.


In the last half-hour, Theresa May U-turns on social care


funding, announcing a big change to her manifesto after political


opponents labelled her plan a 'dementia tax'.


Labour announces it would scrap university tuition fees for students


in England this year if it wins the election.


The Green Party launches its manifesto for England and Wales,


promising a universal basic income, a four-day working week, and a final


And the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon comes under pressure over funding


for the NHS in Scotland from a nurse.


Come in on the middle of any day, to any ward, any A department.


Come on in and see what we're up against.


All that in the next hour, and with me for the whole


of the programme today, the former Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa


Villiers, who was also a leading Conservative campaigner for Brexit


And Chuka Umunna, who was a leading light in Ed Miliband's shadow


cabinet until he joined Labour's backbenches under Jeremy Corbyn.


Let's kick off with the continuing fall-out from Theresa May's


election manifesto, and in particular her plans


for changing the way in which elderly people pay for care


The Conservative manifesto promised that the state will pay these costs


once an individual's assets dip below ?100,000.


But the policy has come under fire from political opponents,


who have variously described the plan as a 'death tax'


and a 'dementia tax', because old people who need care


wouldn't have their overall costs capped.


Well, in the last half-an-hour Theresa May has been


speaking in North Wales, where she announced her social care


plans would now include consulting on a life-time cap on how much


individuals would pay for their own care.


So I want to make a further point clear.


This manifesto says that we will come forward


with a consultation paper, a Government green paper,


and that consultation will include an absolute limit on the amount


people have to pay for their care costs.


So let me reiterate - we are proposing the right funding


We will make sure nobody has to sell their family


home to pay for care, we'll make sure there is an absolute


limit on what people need to pay, and you will never have to go below


?100,000 of your savings, so you will always have something


She has folded, it took 24 hours for her to perform a miraculous U-turn


on one of her key policies on how social care will be funded in the


future. The Prime Minister has obviously listened to the concerns


people raised and I think the introduction of a cap is a welcome


clarification of this set of proposals. We do need to reform the


way social care is delivered and funded. The greatest threats to our


ability to safeguard people in their old age is actually a weak economy


and that is what we would get if we elected


Jeremy Corbyn of Prime Minister and put him in charge of Brexit


negotiations. You call it a clarification, it was not a


clarification, it was a complete about turn. There was no mention in


the manifesto, just a couple of days ago, off their being a cap on the


cost you could pay if you had over ?100,000, there was just a floor.


This is a significant announcement... Was it the wrong


policy in the manifesto? I think it proved with the clarification that


cap will be consulted on. I think that was an important element of


previous debates over social care so I welcome the announcement today and


I believe that there will be many people out there who will also


welcome it. Although it was very clear it was a break with previous


stated Government policy that did say there should be a cap, and she


went against that, so why has she changed her mind? Because she has


listened to the concerns expressed about how the policy was set out in


the manifesto she has made a significant change, which I think


many people will welcome. It was called and hailed a dementia tax,


which is true, it was a world of the dice, if you were unfortunate enough


to get dementia in old age and at Ascot over ?100,000, you could see


all a bit potentially go, if you did not get dementia but another illness


treated on the NHS, even if you had valuable assets you did not pay


anything? I don't think it is fair to characterise the proposals as a


dementia tax. The reality is people already paid for their social


care... It doesn't include their house in the calculation, does it?


As I say, everything depends on a strong economy, only Theresa May and


the Conservatives can deliver a strong economy and a


successful Brexit. If we jeopardise that we won't be able to care for


our frail elderly population. Chuka Umunna, it was not that long ago


that Gordon Brown suggested a very similar policy that was dubbed a


death tax, you may say very unfairly by the Conservatives at the time,


with a maximum of ?20,000 paid after a person died to pay for the social


care a person may have used when they were alive, so what was the


problem? At the problem with this was there was no cap, as under the


original plans. I'm sorry, this idea that somehow the Conservatives,


people have sat in the Conservative cabinet since 2010, have been good


for social care, Theresa, what you have done for social care in my area


is absolutely criminal. What has happened is they have heavily,


heavily cut the budget of local authorities, which has meant in turn


they have not been able to provide the social care we need. That has


had a knock-on effect on the NHS because it meant more older people


going to A and when they go into hospital less likely to come out


because there is nowhere for them to go afterwards,


that is the reality of what you have done since 2010 and the only way we


can resolve this, first of all decent integrated care for elderly


people which looks after their mental, physical and social needs


together, and we all have to make a contribution, but the idea that you


dump the entire burden of setting out your social care with the


families concerned without the rest of society playing a role, that is


what your proposal originally was going to do, and this strong and


stable Government... Let Theresa answer because that was the reality,


that it was an inheritance tax, I think Ukip dubbed it a Conservative


death tax, an inheritance tax on anything over ?100,000? The reality


is people already contribute to the cost of their social care, that is


not changing as a result of the proposals in the Conservative


manifesto. But there was not a cap will stop one of the key reasons for


the pressure on social care is we are an ageing society. Theresa May


will take tough decisions to put that funding on a sustainable basis.


You have taken away the funding. What is crucial to doing that is a


strong economy which we will not get if Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister


and in charge of Brexit negotiations. You must ring one of


the MPs who voted no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn... Theresa bilious, we


are talking about the social care policy. Let me tell you something, I


always have far more confident in my Labour Party than your Tory party.


What is the cap that Labour would put in, because it is not clear from


your manifesto? It is true that Theresa May


has now said she has changed her mind, there will be a lifetime cap


on costs, but what is the cap in the Labour manifesto? There is no cap in


the Labour manifesto because we would do this differently. We would


put more money in social care... If you look at the social care policy


in the Labour manifesto, you would also have a floor and a cap, so in


that sense it is the same. I don't know what the cap is but the


difference is, would we take away the funding from local authorities


which provide social care for people? How much money would you put


back into local authorities? One thing I would agree with Theresa on


is we have a different economic policy and basically wouldn't


massacre public services. Look at Lambeth, where I have been


representing, it will mean our local authority will have decent funding


to provide the care elderly people in my community need, that would be


ripped away under the Conservatives and we see a role for society,


family, all of us playing our part rather than having the entire burden


sitting with their family. I know you don't know an exact cap, that is


fine, we now know Theresa May hasn't said what the cap would be, but it


does say in the Labour manifesto, we would seek consensus on a


cross-party basis about how social care should be funded with options


including wealth taxes, employer care contribution or a new social


care levy, so you are looking at the same options that Theresa May has


now clarified, to use your words? Well, we don't quite know what she


is proposing. What would you prefer out of the Labour manifesto? We are


looking at a range of options, I like the proposals put forward by


Andrew Deal not, who tried to come up with a cross-party solution on


this. Ultimately, one Government would be able to make a decision on


the future of social care, it will be a multiple Government thing which


is why we need to build a consensus on it. Let's go back to the issue of


leadership, the point is there is nothing strong or stable about the


leadership that Theresa May has shown when it has come to this


social care policy, because it looked like it was hurting their


election prospects, she has changed the policy, a U-turn. I would not


characterise it like that at all. She is the right person to be Prime


Minister and lead Brexit negotiations. If she was so strong,


why has she felt the need to change the policy? Because she has listen


to concerns that people have expressed over the weekend, it is


right that she does that, Prime Minister is entitled to listen to


concerns expressed about policy. And all of the stress and worry they


have caused older people. People have a choice, on the 9th of


June, do they want Jeremy Corbyn standing on the steps of Downing


Street, or Theresa May? 11 days after that we start Brexit


negotiations... I know you want to talk about Brexit but this is a big


policy change that has been announced today. Let's see how it is


playing with voters. Adam has taken the Daily Politics


moodbox to Birmingham. Adam, what's the moodbox


question today? Greetings from a slightly breezy


Birmingham, I apologise if you can hear any dreading or dilling. The


question is, before the Prime Minister did her speech today, is


which party leader do you trust to sort out the issue of adult social


care, is it Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn? Worth remembering Jeremy


Corbyn's policy proposal is an extra 8 billion on social care by the end


of the next parliament and in the longer term to set up this social


care policy. Here is what the brumbies had to say about the issue.


-- what the Brummies had to say. Do you care about the issue


of care for the elderly? But you wouldn't need it


for about another 60 years? Which party leader do


you trust to look after Because, like, the Labour manifesto,


it's laid out well, it's costed well and it's done in a way that reflects


nicely on most of society and gives older people and young


people both a chance. Unlike the Tories, that


have their weird death tax thing, Have you been sent


here by Labour HQ? What do you think about their plans


for the whole ?100,000, including a house in the means


test for care? But, at the end of the day,


we've got a purse within which we have to live


in, and we have to cut There's not endless


amounts of money. Yes, it's going to


disadvantage some people. But, ultimately, as a society,


I think we have to get Which party leader do you trust


to look after your grandparents Care for older people,


the massive story at the moment. Some people are calling


it the dementia tax, Well, I don't think


they're going to... I don't think it'll


happen at all, really. I've got friends that work


in adult social care, We tried to get care for somebody


in my family and it hasn't really worked out because of the cuts


that we've had. Do you think this is going to affect


the outcome of the election? You can see there's


a swing towards Labour. But I don't think it will be big


enough to beat the Conservatives. When it really comes down to it,


I think a lot of people have an altruistic view,


except when they have Who do you trust to sort out


care for the elderly? Because I don't trust


a Conservative. Because I think he's


a more genuine guy. This whole issue about care


for older people, has it What did you think of


the system that was in place? Do you think it'll ever


get fixed, the system, Well, it's totally unscientific,


but it looks as if a big majority of people think Jeremy Corbyn


is the person who can sort out Thank you, Adam. Unscientific, but


anecdotally, Corbyn on the side of the elderly and the Tories and


Theresa May not. Was it just too complacent to bring out a proposal


like the social care one that was half baked? Well, the motivation


behind the proposal was too but social care on a sustainable


financial basis. -- to put social care on a sustainable financial


basis. This is a real contest, it is not easy to predict the outcome of


the election. Was it complacent? Should she not have put out a policy


that was going to be controversial at the least, brave at best? What


people should draw from this is that the protest vote for Labour or the


Lib Dems involves a real risk that Jeremy Corbyn will be our Prime


Minister. Did it help that your party didn't come clean about which


pensioners would be affected by means testing the winter fuel


allowance? I don't think... That is obviously an issue that we will need


to address as part of a consultation on how to implement these proposals,


if we are re-elected. That consultation will look at the level


at which arrangements on the winter fuel payments are correlated. You


say this so casually. More than 7000 older people in the constituency I


have been representing since 2010, about 72% of older people could be


affected by what you are talking about. You're just casually talking


about these things, oh, well, we can sort it. Why should wealthy


pensioners get those allowances? Hang on... Well, answer that


question. I'm answering the question. If you look at what Labour


had been proposing in the last general election, yes, more wealthy


pensioners will be affected by this. You are talking about 72% of old age


pensioners that receive the winter fuel allowance. Hang on, they


haven't put a limit. What should it be said at? Until you put a limit,


or say where the means test is going to fall, a bit like the social care


policy, people will think it is going to affect them. In due course,


if we are re-elected, we will set out a threshold. Should it have been


done in the manifesto? You know, it's not a decision that was taken


easily. But the reality is that we need, in an era where resources are


limited by the deficit, that we inherited in 2010, we need to make


sure that we spend taxpayer money... Are you really blaming Labour for


something that happened in 2010? We left government seven years ago, and


your mug has borrowed more in that seven years than the Labour


Government did in 13 years. You were proposing the same bringing down of


the deficit as happened under the Conservatives and coalition? We


would have achieved our target. Well, we won't know, of course.


Vicki Young is where the Prime Minister was giving his speech. How


has it gone down, the big change and you turn on social care policy, not


just a floor of ?100,000 in care costs, but now there is going to be


a cap? Yes, pretty incredible stuff. Just four days after the


Conservative manifesto was launched, Theresa May is urging us to look at


page 65. She says there is no change, well, that is not the way I


see it. If you look here, you can see in this document that they talk


about the fact your house will be taken into account, they talk about


deferred payments, they talk about the fact you will be able to keep


?100,000, ultimately. No mention of a cap. That is such a fundamental


part of this kind of policy. It is not like work has not been done on


this. There have been numerous reports into social care and the way


that you can fund it in a different way. Caps have been talked about,


David Cameron was due to bring in a cap of ?72,000 in 2020. No mention


of that in this document. Theresa May, insisting nothing has changed,


the principal stay the same and she is going to tackle the issue of


social care, because everybody agrees more money needs to go in the


system. Instead, she has accused Jeremy Corbyn and Labour of


spreading fake claims, fear and scaremongering over people losing


their homes. Everybody is free to read this document, everybody will


look at that and see that there was no mention of a cap. The fact that


yesterday Damian Green, her pension secretary, said there would be no


rowing back from these proposals, that they had been decided. Was the


fact that she hadn't really consulted many of her ministers a


problem, in terms of putting out what her critics have called a half


baked policy that ended up looking like a dementia tax? Yes, that is


the criticism from some in the party, that she has very close


advisers, that she relies on them too heavily, rather than talking to


some Cabinet ministers around her. Damian Green not just saying there


would be no rowing back, he criticised the idea of a cap. What


she is saying, although I have to say, she sounded very rattled, she


sounded under pressure and she does not usually. She has made such a big


deal in this campaign about being strong, stable, any kind of U-turn


or significant change like this is going to be absolutely seized upon


by her opponents. She will say it is all about taking tough decisions and


she will say she has been willing to tackle an issue many others have not


been willing to do. Thank you. I am joined by two top-notch political


journalists. correspondent for the Telegraph,


and Jim Waterson, political editor We have been looking for campaign


drama for a while. Now we have a screeching U-turn from Theresa May.


I don't think she expected this. Talking to Tory MPs, they were


saying on the doorstep that this was actually coming up. They are a bit


rattled. The text messages I have been getting from people in marginal


seats, we are confident we are going to destroy Jeremy Corbyn, take seats


we have never taken before, suddenly there were dealing with pensioners


that were really concerned. People didn't necessarily know what the


policy was, they didn't like what they heard about it. They didn't


know the details, but they didn't like the idea that somebody was


going to get hold of their house and it was not going to be their kids.


Presumably, it was because they made a link between tightening the polls


over the weekend at the announcement of this policy on Thursday? Yes. It


was not a good weekend for the Tories. Everybody has been boasting


about how well they are doing, but this week we saw, over the weekend,


that they only have a 9-point lead. That's the first time it has been a


single number since Theresa May announced the snap poll. I think


they got pretty nervous. We will always expecting a bit of a wobble


at some point. I think a lot of candidates were thinking like


Theresa May was being a bit cocky. They knew they were doing well, they


kind of thought, let's go for it, let's go out there. All of the polls


over the weekend, specifically on the dementia tax, as shown it is


unpopular and Labour are doing better. They have the key message


out there. They have used the phrase dementia tax and it has been


incredibly damaging. If we look at other issues, Jeremy Corbyn came


under fire over the weekend for his association with the IRA and he


refused to condemn IRA bombing without equating to other parties.


Does his position on Security and defence negatively impact on the


retail offers that Labour was making? There are problems,


certainly in the seats where they are fighting with the Tories, the


Midlands and the North. While the interesting things with the IRA and


Jeremy Corbyn is the way the has developed. If you are under 40,


perhaps you associate the IRA and things like that more with the Good


Friday agreement and the peace process, so it is less of a toxic


association. For a lot of older voters, the sort of people the


Conservatives need to get onside, that is where it hits home.


Depending on the generational gap, it is behaving slightly differently.


What about Labour's university tuition fees policy. How popular is


that? I think it will be very popular. Labour are clearly


targeting the younger generation. That is where Mr Corbyn's supporters


are from, mainly. They are saying they're going to scrap them


entirely, from September there will be scrapped so that students do not


deferred. It is going to be popular with young people and we know that


young people are who Jeremy Corbyn is targeting. But do they vote? Good


question. Today is the final day to get people to register to vote, and


there is a reason why they announced today. Normally, people are going to


benefit in the next generation. Now you can say, vote Labour, get your


education for free. This was supposed to be the Brexit election,


as Theresa May build it, she returned to that theme today, no


doubt to distract from the change on social care policy. She was the one


that decided to make it about public services, to a large extent. Is her


decision broadly parking her tanks and Labour's lawn, backfiring? Well,


Labour is gaining in the polls. The Tories still have a massive lead.


There are a lot of issues around the campaign, polls tend to swing back


to the government. It's hard to argue that Jeremy Corbyn has not had


a surprisingly good campaign in the eyes of a lot of people, but still


has a long way to make up. Theresa May would be much happier if this


was all about Jeremy Corbyn, and about Brexit, than things like


social care. That is what we are seeing today. Thank you to both of


you. Now, as we've just been hearing,


Jeremy Corbyn's attitude to the IRA So when it comes to the Labour


leader and other members of his inner circle,


what exactly is their record As a backbencher in the 1980s,


Mr Corbyn was criticised for his activities with the controversial


Troops Out movement, which campaigned to end British


military involvement in Northern He's also been questioned


about his links to a magazine called London Labour Briefing,


which in 1984 published an article celebrating


the IRA's Brighton bombing, In the 1980s, during some


of the most violent years of the Troubles, Mr Corbyn


and the current Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell


met the IRA on a number They said the meetings


were part of their attempt The IRA declared


a ceasefire in 1994. Diane Abbott, now Shadow Home


Secretary, has been criticised for comments she made in a 1984


interview, when she proclaimed "Every defeat


of the British state... Then, in 2003, John McDonnell


praised the "bombs and bullets...that brought Britain


to the negotiating table," comments Well, yesterday Mr Corbyn was asked


again about the IRA, and refused five times to condemn


them specifically for their role in the Troubles, saying only that


"all bombing is wrong". Let's hear a section


of that interview. Do you condemn


unequivocally the IRA? But you condemned


all bombing, there. Can you condemn the IRA


without equating it to... No, I think what you have to say


is that all bombing has to be condemned and you have to bring


about a peace process... Wait a minute, can you


let me finish, please? In the 1980s, Britain was looking


for a military solution in Ireland. Ask anyone in the British


Army at that time. Therefore, you have


to seek a peace process. You condemn the violence of those


that laid bombs that killed large numbers of innocent people,


and I do. So can you condemn the IRA,


who were responsible... I've just condemned all those


that did bombing... If you let me finish


as well, after I've just... Chuka Umunna, your leader had five


opportunities in that interview to condemn the IRA specifically and he


refused to do so. Was that a mistake? Anybody watching the clip


will have seen him condemn the IRA and all bombing. I am very clear,


unequivocally, the bombing and all of the violence which they brought


upon the whole of the UK is totally, totally awful and an acceptable. I


think that is basically what he said, whilst also talking about the


loyalists and what others did. The problem some people might have, and


I'm not saying everybody, some people might have, is his inability,


his seeming inability to condemn the IRA. Saying all bombing is wrong,


well, everybody would say all bombing is wrong. If you can't


condemn the IRA... Do you really think Jeremy Corbyn is somebody who


wanted to see death and destruction in Northern Ireland? Are you going


to buy the front of the Daily Mail today, Tory supporting papers, the


Telegraph, or take at face value what he said? Would it have been


easier for him to then, and this was not an interview from years ago,


this is yesterday, what was preventing him just saying yes, I


condemn the IRA bombing. You will have to ask him that question. But


he is the leader of the Labour Party. If you want to talk about the


Labour Party in Northern Ireland, I am extremely proud of the record of


the last Labour government are helping to bring about peace. And


John Major as well. But he was not in that government. I was six when


these things were said. You are a young man, but might it be a problem


for some voters to listen to an interview like that, Jeremy Corbyn


was not part of the government that you were talking about, under Tony


Blair, that dealt with the peace process. Is it difficult to sell, as


I asked the journalist before, Labour's off on the doorstep if


people have reservations about what they might feel is biased towards


one side or the other about Northern Ireland, bearing in mind that this


man wants to be the next Prime Minister? If you're talking about


being biased towards one side or the other, he condemned the IRA and the


loyalists. Do you have an issue with the fact that when he was condemn


any IRA, he also condemned the loyalists? If that is a big issue


for you, that he would not condemn the IRA on its own, I am not sure


that for most people this is an issue. I have been on the doorstep,


not just my own constituency, but in Birmingham... He was condemning the


British Army as well? The issue, which has been known about for a


long time, was not brought up. Was this not the point, it is just a


convenient weapon with which to attack Jeremy Corbyn? For his past


associations with the organisation, with the IRA, to distract from what


is actually going on in this election? That is not what is


happening here. I met many victims of IRA violence. There will be upset


and distressed by the fact that someone is holding himself out as


our next Prime Minister, potentially, and will not


unequivocally condemn... He condemned all bombing. Didn't he?


What is wrong with that? He condemned both sides. Isn't that


what you want? Somebody who is impartial, prepared to condemn


wrongdoing on both sides? Maybe it wouldn't be such a big


problem if he didn't have this track record on these matters and his


Shadow Chancellor praised the bombs and bullets of the IRA and yet


people are being asked on the 8th of June to trust these people with the


security of our nation. Remember Jeremy Corbyn also refers to groups


like Hamas and has bomber as his friends. Well, he has said that


wasn't the case, even if he used the word Brenkley he was talking more


generally about people that were at conferences in the past, not


specifically members of Hamas. But, again, Chuka, doesn't it make your


job much, much harder if this issue is going to come up time and time


again and people are unsure about where Jeremy Corbyn stands? It gets


raised time and again in the Telegraph and other Conservative


supporting newspapers but people on the doorstep are not asking about


the IRA, they are talking about the dementia tax, tuition fees, they


like the tuition fees proposals, they have asked about the public


sector pay cap which we will abolish, they ask us about many


other things. I haven't had anybody bringing up the IRA on the doorstep


and that is not just in my constituency but several other


regions as well. If Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister, you will have to


deal with the British military, he will have to deal with policies in


Northern Ireland. On the basis of what Theresa de Villiers said, how


difficult will that be with his track record? As I said, you ass


with a question, I answered it, it is not an issue on the doorstep. But


if he became Prime Minister, how difficult would it be in his


dealings with the British military, for example? I think the British


military will work with whoever is elected, that is why we have an


impartial civil service and an impasse or set of Armed Forces, that


is how it should be. Are you not making much more of this, Theresa de


Villiers, for party political purposes. Jeremy Corbyn and John


McDonnell had meetings with the IRA in the 1980s, perhaps that was


far-sighted, we now know that the British Government did it but in


secret, so perhaps it made perfect sense because it led to peace?


Jeremy Corbyn has a 30 year track record of voting against measures to


protect security. When he was asked by a journalist, would he think it


was correct for a police officer faced with a gun-wielding terrorist


to fire at that terrorist, he wouldn't even support a police


officer. He is not capable of dealing in a responsible way with


our security service. That is not actually true, if you watch the


interview that I think you are referring to with Laura Kuenssberg


Cobbe said, if you are going to have police officers using lethal force


then there has to be a reference to a set of rules and guidelines under


which they do it. Your interpretation there is a deliberate


untruths, I would argue. The question that I put to you is, what


is wrong with talking to armed dissidents, what is wrong with


talking to people that you want to get around the negotiating table?


That is what the British Government did so what is the difference? It is


clear the IRA and Sinn Fein were not allowed to be included in formal


peace talks until they adopted the Mitchell rules and agreed not to


resort to violence but the key thing here is who is going to be the Prime


Minister who will face got our security? Theresa May have a track


record of Home Secretary, one of the most successful in history, the


choice is between her keeping our country save or vesting this in the


incapable hands of Jeremy Corbyn. The Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams,


at the manifesto launch of Sinn Fein, has defended the Labour


leader, defended Jeremy Corbyn, following the row that we have been


talking about, and that that Mr Corbyn was on the right side of


history. If that helpful to the Labour campaign? I don't think


people will be seeking the advice of Gerry Adams or anyone else in my


constituency as to how they vote. In the end they will look at the


policies being offered by the Labour Party, they are popular policies and


they will make a judgment. Because this is a difficult area? In the


end, when we look at the history of Northern Ireland over the last few


decades and much longer, should the Conservative Party be seeking to


play party politics in the middle of a general election with this issue


when we have seen so many people on both sides lose their lives?


Personally I think it is rather distasteful and I don't think they


should be doing this. Let's leave it there.


Let's get a round-up of all the rest of the election campaign


The sun is shining, it is nice and warm but we don't have time for that


because there are only 17 campaigning days left of the


selection. Another couple of manifestos today but another more


urgent deadline looming, the deadline to register to vote, that


is at one minute to midnight tonight to do so if you have not done so


already, so quick, hurry up! Here is Norman.


It is something our ancestors fought and died for, fundamental to our


democracy, in the mother of all parliaments, the right to vote. But


if that is not reason enough, there is always free beer. Pubs across the


country are offering free pints to young people who have registered to


vote ahead of the deadline tonight. Here is one user who has taken


advantage. Labour board their manifesto was so good that they


launched it twice. The Tories did it in a warehouse. The Lib Dems stood


on some flags. Today it was the turn of greens, here, unveiling their


plans for a softer Brexit. Vote Green for a competent and caring


Britain. The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was trying to up the anti on


being anti-Tory plans for social care funding suggesting it would


affect nine in ten English homes. This is a devastating death tax


trumped up on the back of an envelope. It is not often Ukip agree


with the Lib Dems on anything. Funnily enough Patrick O'Flynn did


not mention the pledge by another Ukip candidate that he would push


for asteroid belt mining and a spaceship capable of interstellar


travel if he was elected. Do you want housing? Do you want care? They


were there to see the libertines, they got this rock star instead. We


can achieve it together! Thank you very much!


CROWD CHANTS. Whatever happens on June the 8th,


there is always Glastonbury. Something to look forward to.


And I'll be talking to the Green Party leader


Caroline Lucas about her party's manifesto on the programme tomorrow.


Now, last night the first Scottish television debate


The six party leaders clashed on big issues such as Brexit


But it was the question of funding for the NHS that provoked


the most fiery exchange, when one member of the audience -


a nurse - criticised the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon over


We have not heard from Jeremy Corbyn...


How do you expect somebody to live on that?


Do you think that's what nurses go into nursing for?


I'm telling you now, I would rather leave nursing


as would many more of my colleagues, than have to strike.


You have no idea how demoralising it is to work within the NHS.


Don't come on your announced visit, come in on the middle of any


day, into any ward, any A department.


My sister works in the National Health Service.


Believe me, she tells me exactly what she thinks about those matters.


If you listen to me, I'm actually agreeing with you.


We've had a really difficult period with public spending.


We've also, in Scotland, unlike in the rest of the UK,


had a policy of no compulsory redundancies in the NHS


and the wider public sector to try to protect jobs.


I'm joined now by the SNP's Drew Hendry, who is in Inverness for us.


Do you have some sympathy with the nurse who was in the audience in


that debate? I think, as you heard Nicola Sturgeon saying, she agreed


that because of rising inflation, because of the austerity policies


that the Tories have been wedded to across the UK, there is


unsustainable pressure now on the cost of living, and that


inflationary process means that there are already meetings in the


staff side of the NHS to look at the issues and Nicola Sturgeon said she


was looking to remove that. She is open to looking at it, should nurses


be paid more in Scotland or not? Nurses are being paid more in


Scotland, ?300 per year roughly compared to nurses in England... I


mean, should they be paid more than they are currently in Scotland? If


you look at information going up, as it is at the moment across the UK


and the affected will on wages, of course, as I have just said, that


pay restraint is now unsustainable... You have the power


to increase pay for nurses, don't you? That is what we have done in


Scotland by making sure nurses are paid more in Scotland than in the


NHS... Nicola Sturgeon agreed there that pay has not gone up, she agreed


with the nurse who said they have not had a pay rise since 2008. The


1% pay cap has been in place for a while, there have been rises in pay


but pegged to that 1%... So I say again, you have the power to pay


over and above that, why haven't you? Pay restraint has been a


necessary effect of the austerity policies from the Tory Government...


Not to do with the Government, you have the power to do something


different. If you feel that nurses should be paid more, then you have


tax-raising powers, health is devolved, you could have done


something entirely different. There are a range of people who need to be


paid more and the budget that comes to the Scottish Government is meted


out in order to make sure we meet the needs of people, employees


across the nation. The Scottish Government don't forget built in the


real living wage for all public sector employees to make sure people


had a decent chance of a good living. That is something that has


not happened across England and Wales. We have a proud record of


being able to tackle though play whenever it is in our gift and as I


said the issue around pay restraint, because of the rising inflation, it


looks unsustainable, Nicola Sturgeon said clearly she would do something


about it. The nurse said she had to use food banks. Is that acceptable?


Despite what you have just read, is it acceptable that a nurse working


in the NHS in Scotland have to use a food bank? It is not acceptable that


anybody has to use a food bank. But you could do something about it,


which you have conceded. Let me just ask the question, you talked about


pay restraint and austerity, you blamed the


Conservative Government for that and talked about inflation, which makes


it sound like the Scottish Government has no power at all and


is impotent in terms of trying to alleviate the pressure is on page


four people who live in Scotland, why don't you raise income tax if


you want to pay people more? I have told you about some of the measures


we have taken to make sure people get a real living wage, as opposed


to that put forward by the UK Government. We are actively doing


things like that, but you cannot get away from the fact that when the


budgetary system is run in the way it is in the UK and money comes to


Scotland, in order to make sure we are paying for services we need to


make sure that money is going to protect people and that is what we


have done in terms of pay and we have made sure that we have


introduced the living wage, that nurses get paid more in Scotland


than in England, and we are actively looking at the pay restraint issue


because of the fact that inflation now makes it look completely


unsustainable. There was a suggestion by some SNP members that


the nurse we were talking about was married to at Conservative member,


that is untrue. Is that the kind of thing that should be put forward by


your party? Somebody said something onto it and almost immediately


apologised for it, that was the fact of the matter. But do you agree that


that was unacceptable and inappropriate? Of course, it is


never acceptable to use that kind of thing. But can I come back to what I


was going to say about universal credit, because this is an issue of


pay and the ability of people to live their lives in Scotland.


I have just come from a meeting of universal credit in Inverness, where


it has been rolled out early across this area, it is coming to the rest


of the UK shortly and we have got people, because of the universal


credit changes that the UK Government are making, working


people who are suffering because of cuts to those benefits that are


coming out, it is also affecting the disabled and the unemployed as well.


Just because I have not that that much more time with you, let's have


a look at your manifesto, which is coming out tomorrow, I understand.


Can we look forward to an end to the public pay freeze in that manifesto?


I'm not going to pre-empt the manifesto launch tomorrow but what I


can tell you is that our manifesto will be looking after people with


fairness and equality at its heart, unlike what we have seen from the


Tory manifesto which attacks pensioners... We have done that, I


am more interested in your manifesto. We will see it tomorrow


and we will no doubt talk to you again, thank you very much.


As well as discussing all of the main parties contesting


this general election, we're also looking at the platforms


of the smaller parties and today it's the turn


The BNP is a nationalist party and it says it wants


They are pledging to stop all immigration into the UK,


and offer grants to people of foreign descent who volunteer


They want to stop what they call the "Islamisation of the UK" and ban


hijabs, burkas and the building of new mosques.


They also want to abolish anti-discrimination laws,


and be tough on law and order by re-introducing the death penalty.


We've been joined in the studio by party spokesman and general


I am joined by Adam Walker. It is reported your membership is down to


a few hundred. In the last election, you lost 99.7% of your vote share,


winning just 1600 votes and the party has been riven with infighting


and defections. Why is the party in such a perilous state? Yes, it has


been quoted that our membership is right down. Isn't it? No, it is at


about 3000. What we have to remember is that every month and every year


for the past seven years, we have actually operated in a profit. We


are doing quite well in that respect. How many members have you


got? About 3000, but it is growing. We are doing a lot better since the


collapse of Ukip. Doing better since that? How much, though? There has


been a decline in membership in the last few years. How much of that is


down to your leadership? It is not down to my leadership. We have Ukip,


who have been promoted by the mass media. They are doing better than


you and are more appealing? They have done in the past. What we have


seen with the collapse of Ukip since Brexit, we are gaining members from


them and we are pleased about that. One of your policies is zero


tolerance for drug dealers and violent thugs. But you were given a


six-month suspended sentence in 2012 after verbally abusing three young


schoolchildren, chasing them in your 4x4 and slashing the tyres of their


bikes with a knife. You were a schoolteacher at the time? If that


is not thuggish behaviour, what is? EU the judge described it as a Rush


of blood to the head, I apologise that the time. Are you the right


person to be the party leader? I do apologise for that and I said I


apologise. If we look at criminality, we need to look at the


recent programme, talking about the criminality happening in towns...


You can't brush it to the side like that. You are the chairman of the


British National Party and yet that sort of behaviour, you think, can be


excused by a brief rush to the head? It can't be excused at all, I


apologise that the time... But you had a six-month suspended jail


sentence. If we want to look at criminality, look at what has


happened in Rochdale... And those people were convicted and went to


jail. Would you be happy for one of them to be in charge of all the


chairman of a party? If we want to look at other criminals, we cannot


get Tony Blair, who took us to an illegal war under the pretence of


weapons mass destruction. I believe, and members of our party believe,


that he should be up in court as a criminal. They are not here, and you


are, fielding candidates at this election. You have been banned from


teaching... I have not. You still teach karate, should you? Of course


I should. After you chased three children and slashed tyres with a


knife? I have recommendations from people that come to my club. I teach


children and have international champions that train from my club,


nobody has a problem. Let's move away from your character and onto


policies. You want to offer repatriating grants to encourage


people for dissent to leave the country? We believe Britain is full.


Who would be eligible? There are enough people in Great Britain now.


I have taken my other guests through specific policies, who would be


eligible? There are far too many people in our country at this point


in time. There is enough... The infrastructure can't deal with the


amount of people coming in and we need to make sure that they... How


would you do it? What the Government should have done, consecutive


governments beforehand, they should have done a feasibility study to


find out how many people are needed in infrastructure, schools,


hospitals, emergency departments. Sure, I take your broad point, that


you feel hospitals, schools, they are under pressure. But what I am


asking you, you are wanting to offer repatriating grants to encourage


people of foreign descent to go back, in your words, to the country


you think they came from. Who would be eligible for the grant? I have


spoken to parents recently on the school gates and they are really


concerned about the amount of people that are being allowed to come in...


Are you just offering simple solutions that don't add up to a row


of beans? If you would be eligible? Would it just be people who were


born abroad? Certainly not. Who would it be? Can you tell me? We


could use some of the money that we currently spend on foreign aid, I


think nobody has mentioned that one so far in the election debates. I


think it is about ?13.5 billion that is being spent in foreign aid to


some of the most corrupt countries. But which people do you want to


leave the country? If talking about? We're not saying that we want people


to leave. We are saying that we want to halt immigration... What is a


repatriation grant for? We need to find out who is in this country


legally and who is here illegally. Once we have done that, we can...


Move on from there. You are going to pay people who are here illegally to


go back to where you think they have come from? Well... We have far too


many people in the country at this point in time and we need to stop


it. People are suffering on the streets. I have spoke to people on


the streets. I even spoke to a Jamaican lady the other day, and she


is fed up of immigration. But this is one of your policy solutions.


What do you say to those that claim you are a racist party? It is


nonsense, it is not racist to oppose mass immigration. The Archbishop of


Canterbury said himself that is not racist to oppose mass aggression.


But you haven't been able to explain one of your key policies, a


repatriation grant. We are not racist, it is just a label that has


been put on us over the years. It is not racist to oppose mass


immigration. It is a numbers game. A few years ago, Nick Griffin, the


leader of the party, said we are a racist party. Is he joking? That is


why he is not the leader any more. Because he was wrong? Why did he


think the BNP is a racist party, his own party? I don't know what Nick


Griffin thought. You say you wanted to stop the Islamisation of Britain,


banning the burqa, the building of new mosques, wider focus on Muslims?


We don't think Islam is compatible with our way of life, as we said rig


saw recently. What about... What about British Muslims is not


compatible? There are a small number of Muslims that are extremist and we


think the government job is to protect the people of Great Britain,


protect them in a way that is suitable for them. Do you not think


there are extremists in all walks of life? Yes, but if we look at the


recent events that have happened here, just down the road, somebody


was mown down by a Muslim extremist. We have female genital mutilation,


acid attacks, people that our gang raped. Are you an extremist?


Certainly not, I am the opposite. Thank you very much.


Throughout this week we'll be talking to representatives


of the five main parties seeking election in Northern Ireland.


We start with the smallest of the five, the Alliance Party,


and its deputy leader Stephen Farry joins us live from Belfast


Welcome to the Daily Politics. What would you say is a success in this


election for you? In the past we have had elected MPs in Northern


Ireland, our current leader, and we are hopeful to get one or two seats


this time around. We are in a very confident place, we had a very good


election in the recent assembly election in Northern Ireland, where


we had an almost 50% increase in our vote in the space of 12 months. The


main liberal cross community party in Northern Ireland, we are in a


good place. The politics are in a precarious situation. In 2016, you


didn't win any seats and you lost your only one, Naomi Long, who you


mentioned. What are you offering this time that makes you confident


that the results are going to be better? Well, we offer a clear


alternative. We are not a unionist or Nationalist party. Insofar as


politics in Northern Ireland can be very polarised, we are the response


to that in the sense that we are offering a different type of


approach, focusing on the region of northern Ireland as a whole,


representation of the entire community, bringing it into the 21st


century. We have a track record of success on the ground, when we have


been in government in Northern Ireland in the past. And we have


been in Westminster, in the past. In 2015, our vote went up, although the


breaks did not fall for us in terms of winning seats. You have been


critical of the Conservative Party plans for Brexit, do you accept that


if they win this election they will have a mandate from the people for


what you would call a hard Brexit? Well, there is a mandate from the


referendum last year and, potentially, through the general


election. The reality is, no matter what happens for the UK as a whole,


Northern Ireland is a special case. We do have the option, the option to


rejoin the European Union through a united Ireland at some stage, if


that is what the people of Northern Ireland choose. We have the Good


Friday agreement and Northern Ireland only works on the basis of


sharing and interdependence. Brexit is about putting up new divisions


and barriers. There has to be some sort of special arrangement put in


place for Northern Ireland, not least because of the fact that we


have a land border with the remainder of the European Union


through the Republic of Ireland. As you say, that could be the focus of


the Brexit negotiations, the issues you just outlined. This election


takes place amid a background of uncertainty for devolved


institutions. Do you think that might help your party, ironically?


Certainly, people are very concerned and frustrated at the lack of


progress we have seen in recent years. The issues we have fallen out


over are very narrow. But the divisions between the parties are


very deep. Indeed, they are very bitter. It is a real tragedy this is


happening at this time. We need our own local executive to stand up for


Northern Ireland, particularly with Brexit negotiations looming. There


is a real desire on the half of the European Union to address the Irish


issues at the forefront of the negotiations. Are you reassured by


the fact that all the parties, pretty much all of them involved,


have said that Northern Ireland and the border issue will be one of the


first issues they will try to resolve in the Brexit negotiations?


We are reassured in the sense that everybody is saying that. In


practice, whenever you try to avoid this frictionless border on the


island of Ireland, there is a lot of platitudes, no return to the borders


of the past. Nobody to date has really spelt out how we can avoid


that, when the UK leaves the customs union. There is no example anywhere


else in the world where there is not a physical border and a customs


frontier. We will be talking to representational the other Northern


Ireland parties later this week. Now, as part of the BBC's general


election coverage our very own Andrew will be interviewing


a different party leader in-depth And first up is the Prime


Minister, Theresa May. That's The Andrew Neil Interviews,


with Theresa May, tonight We didn't have time earlier to give


you the quiz. You thought you were getting away with it!


What do you think is happening in this picture?


Do you know what the answer is? I don't! I thought you were going to


say yes. What does it look like? Is it to commemorate the signing of a


deal? It looks like something out of a sci-fi film.


Donald Trump was with King Salman of Saudi Arabia and President Sisi


of Egypt at the ceremonial opening of the Global Centre


for Combating Extremist Ideology in Riyadh, during the US President's


Of course(!) What do you mean, you didn't have a clue! It looks more


like a seance. The other worrying seen, waving swords around.


Thanks to Theresa, Chuka, and all my guests.


The One O'Clock news is starting over on BBC One now.


I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the latest


election campaign news - do join me then.


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