30/05/2017 Daily Politics


30/05/2017

Jo Coburn is joined by former justice minister Michael Gove for the latest coverage of the general election campaign, including the SNP's manifesto launch.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 30/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:39.

With the election not much more than a week away,

:00:40.:00:41.

the contest for who will get to Number 10 is is getting serious.

:00:42.:00:47.

After a tricky time following the U-turn on her manifesto,

:00:48.:00:50.

Theresa May is trying to refocus minds on who is best placed

:00:51.:00:53.

Jeremy Corbyn won praise for staying clam under hostile

:00:54.:00:58.

But it seems he hadn't done his homework

:00:59.:01:02.

Nicola Sturgeon has been launching the SNP manifesto this morning.

:01:03.:01:07.

They're promising a big increase in public spending,

:01:08.:01:10.

a rise in income tax and a new immigration policy for Scotland.

:01:11.:01:16.

And we'll be talking about the newest addition

:01:17.:01:18.

I don't mean to be rude. You seem to be a bit of a glumbucket. Are you

:01:19.:01:30.

enjoying the campaign? And with us for the whole of the

:01:31.:01:36.

programme today, it's the former cabinet minister and now Times

:01:37.:01:41.

columnist Michael Gove. He's hoping to be elected

:01:42.:01:43.

again as an MP next week. He was the Justice Secretary

:01:44.:01:46.

until he ran against Theresa May for the leadership of

:01:47.:01:49.

the Conservative Party. But he says she showed very good

:01:50.:01:52.

judgement by giving him the sack - and the highlight on TV

:01:53.:01:56.

wasn't a Bond film. If you're a political obsessive

:01:57.:02:03.

like us, it was the first big live television appearance by Theresa May

:02:04.:02:06.

and Jeremy Corbyn but appearing one after the other

:02:07.:02:09.

on Sky News and Channel 4. I want to live in a world

:02:10.:02:18.

that is free of the danger We are increasing the funding

:02:19.:02:23.

into the health service, and will increase funding

:02:24.:02:27.

into the health That's why we've pledged to provide

:02:28.:02:30.

10,000 more police on our streets, and we want a foreign policy that

:02:31.:02:36.

didn't leave large areas I think what is important now

:02:37.:02:41.

is that we ensure that we get Free movement is implicit

:02:42.:02:49.

in membership of the European Union. It obviously stops when we leave

:02:50.:02:55.

the European Union. The Labour Party's manifesto,

:02:56.:02:57.

we know the figures don't add up. What is important

:02:58.:03:00.

is that as we look... Benefits will be uprated,

:03:01.:03:03.

and be uprated, of course. What we are doing is putting forward

:03:04.:03:11.

a proposal that means people don't have to sell their house

:03:12.:03:14.

in their lifetime to pay for care. It means they can pass on savings

:03:15.:03:20.

to their children and it means There is nothing in this manifesto

:03:21.:03:25.

about getting rid of the monarchy, which is another thing you believe

:03:26.:03:31.

in, isn't it? Look, there's nothing in there

:03:32.:03:33.

because we're not going to do it. Well, we're joined now by the Shadow

:03:34.:03:38.

International Development minister, Welcome back to the Daily Politics.

:03:39.:03:52.

Thank you. Before I come to you, I want to start with Michael Gove. Do

:03:53.:03:57.

you accept that the hubries of calling a snap election which

:03:58.:04:01.

Theresa May said she wouldn't do repeatedly, meanted you had to draw

:04:02.:04:05.

up a manifesto very quickly and now you're suffering to are it? No. Why

:04:06.:04:11.

not? The reason for calling the election was perfectly clear as the

:04:12.:04:15.

Prime Minister pointed out. 9 Labour Party, Liberal Democrats and

:04:16.:04:17.

Scottish National Party said they would recognise our progress to

:04:18.:04:21.

securing a proper Brexit and we needed to have an election in order

:04:22.:04:26.

to strengthen Theresa's hands. We are seeing that across the country.

:04:27.:04:31.

People recognising in 11 days' time, after the general election, we'll

:04:32.:04:36.

send someone to Brussels to see out our departure from the EU. Jeremy

:04:37.:04:40.

Corbyn and the Prime Minister are convinced Theresa May's the right

:04:41.:04:44.

person to be in those negotiations. What evidence is there for that? If

:04:45.:04:48.

you look at the polls, they've gone from a 24 point lead for Theresa May

:04:49.:04:54.

to anything between a 5 and 14 point lead. Most of the questions last

:04:55.:05:01.

night were on domestic Poking Si. A social care cap. A massive you turn

:05:02.:05:07.

by Theresa May. Is she suffering from wanting a bigger majority for

:05:08.:05:11.

Brexit and actually writing a manifesto that's crashed and burned

:05:12.:05:15.

in terms of social care and pensioners missing out on the winter

:05:16.:05:19.

care allowance? There are so many questions in there. Try answering

:05:20.:05:23.

some of them. I will. The first thing is hub rice. We all see when

:05:24.:05:28.

the election results are recorded whether it is the rights decision to

:05:29.:05:32.

make. I think it is. We'll see Teresa returned with an increased

:05:33.:05:36.

majority. How big do you think the majority needs to be. If she gets a

:05:37.:05:43.

few more seats, will it be worth it? I'm not a commentator. You have a

:05:44.:05:50.

judgment. My judgment is Teresa will emerge strengthened as she has from

:05:51.:05:54.

this debate process. You ask about the manifesto. There's a stark

:05:55.:05:59.

contrast from our deep manifesto. When you say deep. On costing, there

:06:00.:06:04.

wasn't a cap on social care. Now there S you'll take away the

:06:05.:06:08.

universal benefit on pensioners in terms of winter fuel allowance.

:06:09.:06:12.

What's detailed about that? We've had more detail in our manifesto

:06:13.:06:18.

than Labour has. What's de-day-old about the figures? What is detailed

:06:19.:06:25.

is we've far more detail on how to fund social care than any Government

:06:26.:06:29.

hitherto. On the winter fuel allowance and double lock, we've a

:06:30.:06:35.

far greater degree of detail about how pensioners will benefit. Which

:06:36.:06:39.

pensioners will lose the winter allowance. Wealthy ones. Cat

:06:40.:06:48.

guerreised by? Is there a figure? I'm responding on the basis you

:06:49.:06:53.

have' a pre-conceived notion. You've bout into a... That won't get you

:06:54.:06:58.

away from putting a figure. Pensioners will be worried about it.

:06:59.:07:03.

Of course they are worried about it. There has been a deliberate attempt

:07:04.:07:07.

by Labour in order to terrify pensioners. In fact, as Teresa's

:07:08.:07:12.

clarified, pensioners will have the reassurance of knowing there will be

:07:13.:07:15.

a cap on the amount that's paid. When it comes to getting the numbers

:07:16.:07:19.

right, Barry Gardiner, your party, it seems, has not learnt lessons

:07:20.:07:23.

following the fiasco of the police numbers. An another key policy

:07:24.:07:28.

announcement by Labour today on childcare and your leader Jeremy

:07:29.:07:31.

Corbyn didn't know how much it would cost. Let's take a listen.

:07:32.:07:33.

How much will it cost to provide un-means tested childcare for 1.3

:07:34.:07:36.

It will obviously cost a lot to do so, we accept that.

:07:37.:07:47.

The point I'm trying to make is we are making it

:07:48.:07:53.

universal so that we are in a position to make sure that every

:07:54.:07:57.

At the moment, get free places will continue to get them.

:07:58.:08:03.

Those that have to pay won't and we'll collect

:08:04.:08:05.

the money through taxation, mainly through corporate taxation.

:08:06.:08:07.

I'll give you the figure in a moment...

:08:08.:08:10.

You're logging into your iPad here, you've announced a major

:08:11.:08:16.

policy and you don't know how much it will cost?

:08:17.:08:19.

Can I give you the exact figure in a moment?

:08:20.:08:21.

Isn't this exactly the issue with people and

:08:22.:08:25.

the Labour Party - which came up under Gordon Brown - that we cannot

:08:26.:08:28.

All of our manifesto is fully costed and examined.

:08:29.:08:37.

But you're holding your manifesto, you're flicking

:08:38.:08:40.

through it, you've got an iPad there, you had

:08:41.:08:43.

a phone call while you were

:08:44.:08:44.

in here, and you don't know how much it is going to cost?

:08:45.:08:47.

Can we come back to that in a moment?

:08:48.:08:49.

This is a policy you're launching today, Mr

:08:50.:08:56.

Corbyn, and you don't know how much it is going to cost.

:08:57.:08:59.

How much will it cost? ?4.8 billion for the childcare. .5 billion for

:09:00.:09:09.

the restoration of over 1,000 Sure Start centres the Government have

:09:10.:09:16.

closed down. In terms of capital to increase the available childcare

:09:17.:09:20.

spaces, it will cost ?2.7 billion. The point I make is this. It wasn't

:09:21.:09:25.

the figure wasn't there or hadn't been costed. This is a rapid-fire

:09:26.:09:31.

general election campaign in which people, politicians are under

:09:32.:09:34.

spotlight. Do you know the answer to this? Do you know the answer to

:09:35.:09:38.

this. If I asked Michael, what was it you spent on early years

:09:39.:09:45.

education in the last year as your administration of Secretary of

:09:46.:09:50.

State, do you know the figure? No. ?2.9 billion. What was it you spent

:09:51.:09:57.

on five-16 on education? Year by year? Year by year. By the time of

:09:58.:10:05.

the end of process, it was about ?40 billion. You've made your point. The

:10:06.:10:10.

point for the taxpayer is they want to be reassured that certainly their

:10:11.:10:15.

party leaders and front bench spokes people do know how much it will

:10:16.:10:23.

cost. Otherwise... Joe the point is Labour want to sampling on spending

:10:24.:10:27.

but don't care how much it will cost? We do know. That's why we've

:10:28.:10:31.

produced this document. Jeremy Corbyn didn't. We are uniquely as a

:10:32.:10:37.

party, having produce add document, funding Britain's future, that sets

:10:38.:10:41.

out clearly what those costs are. Which the Conservatives don't have.

:10:42.:10:46.

It is about as reliable as a pension document? When in fact you asked

:10:47.:10:53.

whether he knew... Hang on. Go on. When you asked Michael, whether he

:10:54.:10:58.

knew how much or how many pensioners would lose out the winter fuel

:10:59.:11:02.

allowance, he didn't give you any answer. There are two answers out

:11:03.:11:07.

there from respectable organisations. One says it might be

:11:08.:11:12.

as many as ten million and the other six million. Michael didn't want to

:11:13.:11:18.

give that figure. They haven't been stated. Don't talk over each other.

:11:19.:11:26.

Let's talk about other figures. Your leader does not know what a flagship

:11:27.:11:32.

policy costs. I'm sorry, he does. He couldn't remember it in an instant.

:11:33.:11:36.

Is that acceptable in the middle of an election campaign? It is not just

:11:37.:11:42.

the childcare policy. You have this document Funding Britain's Future.

:11:43.:11:47.

In that debate, he was asked about benefits being uprated or frozen. In

:11:48.:11:52.

your manifesto, which I have here and the detail about benefits, it

:11:53.:11:57.

doesn't say you'll uprate all benefits which is what Jeremy Corbyn

:11:58.:12:01.

said in last night's debate. The reason is because the uprated

:12:02.:12:05.

benefit is costed in the Government red book. That's why it doesn't need

:12:06.:12:09.

to be costed here. Will it be frozen. For people on benefits, this

:12:10.:12:14.

is important. Is Labour going to continue with a four-year freeze on

:12:15.:12:17.

all benefits, which is what the Government's doing. Again a figure

:12:18.:12:22.

not in their manifesto. It could cost ?11 billion to people on

:12:23.:12:26.

benefits. Are you going to uprate them or freeze them? Jeremy's been

:12:27.:12:33.

clear they will be uprated every year. Job-seekers allow anxious

:12:34.:12:41.

and... He did not say all benefits. He said uprating benefits. That does

:12:42.:12:47.

not mean all benefits. Which ones? You made the point. I'm asking the

:12:48.:12:50.

questions here. I know, this is a good question. Which one? Michael

:12:51.:12:56.

also made the point you said people should know when they're launch can

:12:57.:13:01.

a policy. You will remember earlier in this campaign, Michael Hammond,

:13:02.:13:06.

Philip Hammond. Philip Hammond, when he was asked the cost of HS2 said it

:13:07.:13:12.

was ?32 billion. It is ?57.5 billion. The my point is these are

:13:13.:13:18.

the nit-picking things... They're important though, Barry Gardiner. It

:13:19.:13:21.

is important to know which benefits will be uprated? I've set out

:13:22.:13:25.

clearly what the benefits for childcare are. Where that money's

:13:26.:13:31.

coming from. We've costed it. What other benefits will be uprated? Are

:13:32.:13:35.

you going to uprate universal credit? All aspects of it, which you

:13:36.:13:40.

could say you got from Jeremy Corbyn's statement? What we said is

:13:41.:13:46.

there is is a ?10 billion, as yet unallocated, it will be ?2 billion a

:13:47.:13:49.

year over the lifetime of the Parliament, which will be done after

:13:50.:13:52.

we've reviewed the benefits and looked at the way in which we can

:13:53.:13:58.

uprate them using that ?2 billion. That's exactly what we said. It is

:13:59.:14:02.

in the manifesto. It isn't clear in terms of what you'll uprate and not.

:14:03.:14:07.

Noes physically which but we are conducting a review. If you remember

:14:08.:14:12.

last night, Jo, when she was pressed, Theresa May retreated time

:14:13.:14:15.

and time again into, well, we're going to do a review in that. We're

:14:16.:14:20.

going to review that. We were upfront. We said we've allocated the

:14:21.:14:27.

money, ?10 billion. Let's put that to Michael Gove. That's the

:14:28.:14:30.

difference. Green papers, white papers, looking ahead to

:14:31.:14:33.

consultation, there is nothing specific about the big issues in the

:14:34.:14:38.

Tory manifesto. When you say people will want to know, they will what

:14:39.:14:43.

the cap is on social care. Yes, there was. 82 pages of detail. I'm

:14:44.:14:49.

asking about your social care cap. What is the cap going to be? What

:14:50.:14:54.

should it be? There wasn't going to be one. There will be a cap. The

:14:55.:14:58.

Prime Minister... We don't know what it will be? No, we don't. Damian

:14:59.:15:04.

Green said there would be no U-turn or cap. She had to come out. She

:15:05.:15:14.

realised it was unpopular. I think there have been more unpopular

:15:15.:15:17.

manifesto policies, including Labour's defence and... Can you

:15:18.:15:22.

answer the question on social care cap. The specific question springs

:15:23.:15:29.

from how we'll fund our commitments. You've Jeremy Corbyn who has zero

:15:30.:15:35.

credibility and Theresa May who's been in Government... And have

:15:36.:15:40.

failed on every single policy they've set in 2010. They said they

:15:41.:15:44.

would end the deficit and they didn't. I can see the twinkle in

:15:45.:15:49.

your eye and smile on our face. In defiance of the facts. Barry and

:15:50.:15:54.

Michael. You may be a knock about duo here. You mustn't talk over each

:15:55.:15:58.

other. The viewers can't hear. Stay with us.

:15:59.:16:02.

Now, the Daily Politics moodbox is on tour during the election

:16:03.:16:06.

campaign, and today Ellie's in Luton where she's been asking

:16:07.:16:09.

what people think about the big question of security.

:16:10.:16:11.

I am in Stockwood Park in Luton, to be precise. The election campaign

:16:12.:16:21.

was postponed last week following the tragic events in Manchester and

:16:22.:16:25.

when it got underway, the parties were talking about that big issue of

:16:26.:16:30.

security. Specifically, the Conservatives promised a commission

:16:31.:16:34.

on tackling extremism. The Labour Party promised 10,000 new police

:16:35.:16:38.

officers and the Conservatives spent the weekend attacking Jeremy Corbyn

:16:39.:16:42.

on his links to the IRA during the troubles. Luton is home to two

:16:43.:16:46.

relatively safe Labour seats but it is the kind of place the Tories have

:16:47.:16:50.

their eyes on if they are to pull off that big landslide. It is a good

:16:51.:16:54.

place to ask the question on who you trust more on the question of

:16:55.:16:58.

national security, Labour or the Conservatives... ?

:16:59.:17:03.

They are not about taking them out, but making sure everyone is equal so

:17:04.:17:14.

I choose Labour. Jeremy Corbyn is more trustworthy. Not just that, but

:17:15.:17:20.

even if you did not know he was a politician he seems like a genuine,

:17:21.:17:24.

trustworthy possum. Who makes you feel safer, Labour or the

:17:25.:17:29.

Conservatives. Neither. Why not? I don't feel safe at all. When it

:17:30.:17:34.

comes to the idea of national security, I would rather trust the

:17:35.:17:39.

people who have been taking care of it for previous wiles. Rather than

:17:40.:17:45.

throwing my lot in with a new party. I think fate will decide it... It

:17:46.:17:50.

won't be fate but the voters! The red rose, the flower. I really like

:17:51.:17:56.

it. That is why I like Labour. Nothing to do with national

:17:57.:18:00.

security? I am about peace and love, and unity and care. It is very

:18:01.:18:05.

difficult on security because of the Trident thing with Jeremy Corbyn.

:18:06.:18:09.

But I don't trust the Conservatives on anything at the moment. Thank

:18:10.:18:19.

you. The Conservatives. Why? Jeremy Corbyn said he would not press the

:18:20.:18:28.

nuclear button. He is an idiot. Labour. The Conservatives... No! I

:18:29.:18:35.

mean Labour! I said the Conservatives by accident! I agree

:18:36.:18:41.

with Theresa May but I would rather vote for Corbyn. I like the way that

:18:42.:18:45.

Corbyn said that the reason why we have got all of these problems in

:18:46.:18:49.

our own country is because of the fact that we messed around in other

:18:50.:18:52.

people's countries. Instead of giving these people bread, and a

:18:53.:18:59.

form of security of being nice to these people, we've blown up their

:19:00.:19:03.

own children. Labour or the Conservatives? National security...

:19:04.:19:11.

She is sure! She is striding! We have run out of red balls. Luton has

:19:12.:19:16.

been Labour since 1997 and it looks like the town trusts the party more

:19:17.:19:21.

than the Conservatives on the issue of national security. Thank you,

:19:22.:19:22.

Luton. So that was our entirely

:19:23.:19:26.

unscientific moodbox. But what can the rather more

:19:27.:19:30.

scientific opinion polls tell us Well, we're joined now by

:19:31.:19:32.

the pollster Joe Twyman from YouGov. What is the latest in terms of

:19:33.:19:40.

people's views on security? The latest data coming after the events

:19:41.:19:44.

in Manchester show that around four in ten people trust the

:19:45.:19:48.

Conservatives on defence and security, and around two in ten

:19:49.:19:52.

trust Labour. It's a margin of two to one in favour of the

:19:53.:19:57.

Conservatives, and even in Labour voters, only half trust them to make

:19:58.:20:01.

the right decisions. When you look at individual personalities

:20:02.:20:04.

involved, half of people trust Theresa May and a third trust Jeremy

:20:05.:20:09.

Corbyn. About a quarter Amber Rudd and fewer than one in ten four Diane

:20:10.:20:15.

Abbott. A range of views, no one party completely dominates but the

:20:16.:20:19.

Conservatives are definitely in the best position. What is driving those

:20:20.:20:22.

views and opinions in terms of the party they are backing? In a lot of

:20:23.:20:27.

cases, in terms of who they are backing on security, and a lot of it

:20:28.:20:33.

is to do with a historical information and the kinds of

:20:34.:20:35.

narrative is the party has been putting out. Not only during the

:20:36.:20:41.

campaign but for some time now. Over the period immediately after the

:20:42.:20:45.

attacks at Westminster but also after the murder of Lee Rigby and

:20:46.:20:50.

the 7/7 bombings, we did not see much movement in voting intention

:20:51.:20:53.

figures then, but what we've heard time and again from the

:20:54.:20:56.

Conservatives in this campaign is that they, are to bore everyone with

:20:57.:21:03.

this line, strong and stable not only with the economy but when it

:21:04.:21:07.

comes to security. Divisions in Labour over things like Trident have

:21:08.:21:12.

not helped to counter that with their own stories. What about

:21:13.:21:14.

polling in general? Polling in general, we know that the

:21:15.:21:18.

Conservatives are pushing very hard on the idea of Theresa May as the

:21:19.:21:24.

person who should take the government forward. Polling on that

:21:25.:21:28.

remains pretty consistent, about half of people say that she would

:21:29.:21:32.

make the best Prime Minister, whereas between one in five and one

:21:33.:21:37.

in four people say Jeremy Corbyn. His ratings have improved and that

:21:38.:21:41.

gap has closed but not as much as the gap between the Conservatives

:21:42.:21:44.

and Labour in the dual voting intention poll which was mentioned

:21:45.:21:48.

at the start of the programme, with a 24 point lead when we started,

:21:49.:21:53.

since the events in Manchester, that lead was 5% in our poll from The

:21:54.:22:01.

Times on Friday, and 7% in The Sunday Times on Sunday.

:22:02.:22:07.

It is growing. Now, we return to normal proceedings, and the question

:22:08.:22:10.

is, will that bump that the Conservatives enjoyed this far, will

:22:11.:22:16.

that continue or allow change? As attention moves back to the economy,

:22:17.:22:20.

childcare, social care and other issues between now and election day.

:22:21.:22:23.

Joe Twyman, thank you. Michael Gove, let's return to that

:22:24.:22:27.

issue of security. Theresa May has been running the Home Office since

:22:28.:22:37.

2010, has she taken tough enough measures to tackle Islamic

:22:38.:22:40.

extremism? Yes. What could be done to strengthen the government's hand

:22:41.:22:45.

against extremism? As the Prime Minister made clear in the context

:22:46.:22:49.

of the manifesto, launching a commission to see how we can prevent

:22:50.:22:53.

extremism seems to be the next logical step... Really? Isn't that

:22:54.:22:57.

tinkering around the edges? No, I think it is an enhancement. She has

:22:58.:23:02.

been responsible for deporting more hate preachers than any other Home

:23:03.:23:05.

Secretary and put in place the counter extremism strategy which

:23:06.:23:10.

recognises you don't just seek to prevent violent extremism but

:23:11.:23:14.

intervene earlier to deal with extremism. She has been clear that

:23:15.:23:17.

when it comes to the different manifestations of extremist

:23:18.:23:21.

activity, we need a security apparatus ready to keep us safe and

:23:22.:23:28.

in contrast to Jeremy Corbyn who regards organisations like Hezbollah

:23:29.:23:31.

as his friends. You say they have been the right measures and she has

:23:32.:23:36.

deported a number of hate preachers, I do not know the exact number but

:23:37.:23:41.

the government says there are 23,000 terrorist attack is potentially in

:23:42.:23:51.

the country, several thousand being monitored in separate operations,

:23:52.:23:53.

they are very large numbers. They are concerning, the number

:23:54.:23:58.

23,000, we need to be careful. It is people who have sympathy with the

:23:59.:24:02.

ideology rather than those directly engaging in a plot. Could they be

:24:03.:24:06.

radicalised? Each of these figures, they are figures which are

:24:07.:24:11.

reflective of individuals and have already been on a radical journey.

:24:12.:24:15.

The difference between the approach we take and the approaching the last

:24:16.:24:19.

Labour government is we seek to intervene before people reach the

:24:20.:24:22.

point where they are ready to press the button on a bomb or pull a

:24:23.:24:28.

knife. We need to be ready to do the work at mosque and street level to

:24:29.:24:34.

counter extremism that wasn't being done in the same way by Labour. The

:24:35.:24:37.

problem is if Jeremy Corbyn has not backed any key pieces of

:24:38.:24:40.

legislation, when I interviewed your colleague Richard burden than a

:24:41.:24:43.

couple of days ago, you said it is compensated, you need to look at

:24:44.:24:48.

separate legislation. But there are key parts of the 2000 piece of

:24:49.:24:53.

legislation, the power to prescribe organisations and ban them. Jeremy

:24:54.:24:57.

Corbyn did not backed up. If you take Michael Gove's point that you

:24:58.:25:00.

need to intervene earlier, Corbyn was against all of those? What

:25:01.:25:04.

Jeremy has always been in favour of is making sure that we do not allow

:25:05.:25:08.

the terrorists to dictate the agenda. How do you do that? That

:25:09.:25:14.

means not letting them undermine the freedom and the right that we have

:25:15.:25:17.

in this country, the rights for proper judicial scrutiny when you

:25:18.:25:23.

are being detained. We have heard recently even Tarik before coming

:25:24.:25:28.

out and talking about internment, and appalling suggestion. All former

:25:29.:25:35.

heads of MI5 had been very clear about this. You have not answered my

:25:36.:25:44.

question about why it hasn't been backed by Jeremy Corbyn four pieces

:25:45.:25:49.

of legislation previously? I have explained, he wants to make sure

:25:50.:25:52.

terrorists do not set the agenda. The whole threat to this country has

:25:53.:25:58.

changed from the battlefields of the Middle East to the bedrooms of

:25:59.:26:01.

disaffected youths in this country. That is why the Prevent strategy,

:26:02.:26:07.

even David Andersen, who is the previous independent reviewer of our

:26:08.:26:12.

terror legislation has said that the Prevent strategy causes problems.

:26:13.:26:21.

Let Michael say... Jeremy Corbyn lead a minute's silence for the IRA

:26:22.:26:28.

in the 1980s. And calls Hezbollah his friends. The idea that Jeremy

:26:29.:26:32.

Corbyn is a credible... Shouting does not make your point any better.

:26:33.:26:41.

I am not shouting. I am making clear how outrageous it is, Barry, that

:26:42.:26:44.

you are defending as your leader is someone who led a minute of silence

:26:45.:26:51.

for Republican members... Shouting will not help you, Michael. Answer

:26:52.:26:58.

the question, why can't you? Does it undermine his credibility? I am

:26:59.:27:01.

happy to answer Michael's question but let's do it in a calm and

:27:02.:27:06.

reasoned way. OK? The point is, all that we had seen is in this election

:27:07.:27:14.

about security and has been trying to focus on smears, newspaper

:27:15.:27:18.

articles from 33 years ago. Let's focus on the policies. Let's focus

:27:19.:27:23.

on what now needs to happen to create a safer country. What

:27:24.:27:27.

policies would you enact? That is what I want to enact... Would you

:27:28.:27:32.

lead a minute of silence for terrorists? He is dodging the

:27:33.:27:35.

question. I am not dodging the question, give me a minute to come

:27:36.:27:39.

back without rudely interrupting, then I will be able to fully answer

:27:40.:27:42.

what the policies are that we are putting in place. That is why we are

:27:43.:27:48.

going to put an extra 10,000 police officers on the streets, that the

:27:49.:27:54.

present Prime Minister, as Home Secretary, cut by 20,000. She was

:27:55.:27:58.

the one, the moment she came into office in 2010, cut 5% of MI5, 5% of

:27:59.:28:06.

security and intelligence services, 5% of GCHQ staff. We have only begun

:28:07.:28:10.

to get back to the numbers of stopping that Bose security

:28:11.:28:14.

organisations had in the last financial year... That is a policy

:28:15.:28:18.

you want to increase the number of police officers. Can I say more as

:28:19.:28:23.

well? In a moment, do you admit cutting those police officers was a

:28:24.:28:27.

mistake? Don't shout at Barry Gardiner for a moment but answer my

:28:28.:28:32.

question. Cutting police officers and the number of soldiers in the

:28:33.:28:35.

Army who had to go out onto the streets of the country after the

:28:36.:28:39.

Manchester attacks, you cannot fight terror on the cheap? I never

:28:40.:28:43.

shouted, I ask tough questions that Barry dodged... Go on, answer my

:28:44.:28:48.

question. I do not think it was, I think it was striking that John

:28:49.:28:52.

McDonnell when he became Shadow Chancellor wanted to get rid of

:28:53.:28:57.

special Branch and get rid of MI5. John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn

:28:58.:29:00.

have been the terrorists friends, and not their enemies, over the

:29:01.:29:04.

course of their political careers. That is why Barry cannot answer the

:29:05.:29:10.

question. He led a minute of silence for Republican... Michael, we are

:29:11.:29:17.

going to run out of time. Answer the questions about previous

:29:18.:29:18.

associations that have been repeatedly pity you and your

:29:19.:29:27.

colleagues and Jeremy Corbyn. The point is this. Jeremy answered those

:29:28.:29:31.

questions fully last night. He said, on the television last night in

:29:32.:29:34.

those debates, he said the minute of silence that he participated in was

:29:35.:29:41.

for all of the people who died... That was counted, of course. We have

:29:42.:29:45.

had nothing but smears from history. Let's talk about policies going

:29:46.:29:50.

forward. We are saying that when this government has seen a rise in

:29:51.:29:57.

illegal border.. People coming in over the border illegally rise from

:29:58.:30:02.

1000 a month to 13,000 a month, that is why we are putting in place 500

:30:03.:30:06.

further border guards. We think it is ridiculous that you have two

:30:07.:30:12.

police the whole of the 11,000 coastline of the UK... We have

:30:13.:30:18.

policies that we want to put in place that will make us more secure.

:30:19.:30:24.

When you look at the way in which our prisons... Barry, I will need to

:30:25.:30:28.

share issue and Michael Gove, that is it.

:30:29.:30:34.

The partisan supporters are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at

:30:35.:30:39.

this campaign. Adam, can you tell us more? My goodness, what is he

:30:40.:30:51.

playing? Sorry, Jo. I am playing Corbyn Run, Theresa May is dropping

:30:52.:30:56.

bags of money on his head. I'm doing quite well but the music is

:30:57.:31:02.

incredibly annoying. Talking of Jeremy Corbyn, he has a new

:31:03.:31:06.

celebrity backer. I will give you a clue. An actor from the US, and he

:31:07.:31:11.

starred in big things like the best Batman film comedy sitcom Taxi and

:31:12.:31:16.

Twins with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who could it be? Take a look...

:31:17.:31:19.

It's diminutiv actor Danny de Vito who displayed his Corbynito

:31:20.:31:23.

The baked goods were the star as Liberal Democrat Leader Tim

:31:24.:31:27.

Farron visited a bakery to make some croissants.

:31:28.:31:29.

Food was consumed over on the Victoria Derbyshire programme

:31:30.:31:35.

where they set up Boris Johnson's sister on a blind date

:31:36.:31:38.

Could you make her unsee the light?

:31:39.:31:50.

Do you know what, I'm not going to answer that!

:31:51.:31:52.

Good grief, quick, time for a musical interlude.

:31:53.:31:59.

Conservative friends of India have released this little ditty.

:32:00.:32:06.

For those who aren't connoisseurs of Hindi pop, they're saying,

:32:07.:32:09.

"Let's join hands with Theresa May for a strong and stable Government."

:32:10.:32:14.

In the category marked "slightly less flattering".

:32:15.:32:17.

This anti-Tory track is currently number two in the UK iTunes chart.

:32:18.:32:29.

I wonder what it looks like if we mash it up with some footage we

:32:30.:32:35.

found of Labour's Yvette Cooper teaching people to line dance?

:32:36.:32:39.

# We all know politicians like to telling lies

:32:40.:32:42.

# Big ones, little ones, porky pies

:32:43.:32:44.

# Saying they're strong and stable...#

:32:45.:32:53.

Wait for it, a giant question mark to highlight

:32:54.:32:56.

the lack of decent props, I mean, the lack of debate

:32:57.:32:58.

about environmental issues in the election campaign!

:32:59.:33:04.

The SNP launched their manifesto earlier this morning in Perth.

:33:05.:33:08.

It was delayed from last week, after the Manchester bombing.

:33:09.:33:11.

this is their programme for government in Westminster.

:33:12.:33:15.

They want to invest an additional ?118 billion in public services,

:33:16.:33:23.

which they say would put an end to Westminster austerity cuts.

:33:24.:33:28.

They say they would fund their spending plans

:33:29.:33:31.

by delaying reducing the deficit and increasing tax revenues by raising

:33:32.:33:34.

They also want to protect the triple lock on pensions,

:33:35.:33:41.

stop cuts to the winter fuel allowance,

:33:42.:33:43.

deliver extra investment for the NHS, social security

:33:44.:33:46.

There is also a commitment to increase the minimum wage

:33:47.:33:51.

to the same level as the "real living wage" over

:33:52.:33:54.

At present, those aged 25 and over are entitled to ?7.50 per hour.

:33:55.:34:00.

But the real living wage, currently set at ?8.45,

:34:01.:34:03.

is projected to rise to ?10.60 per hour by 2022.

:34:04.:34:09.

The SNP would also like the ability to set it's own immigration policy,

:34:10.:34:12.

which they say would give people the opportunity to come and go.

:34:13.:34:16.

to stay in the European Single Market after Brexit.

:34:17.:34:26.

On independence, they say Scotland should have a referendum at the end

:34:27.:34:31.

of the Brexit process. They previously said at the end of the

:34:32.:34:33.

next year or early 2019. Here's Nicola Sturgeon speaking this

:34:34.:34:35.

morning at her manifesto launch. This manifesto sets out a clear

:34:36.:34:38.

plan to end Tory cuts, protect Scottish jobs,

:34:39.:34:41.

and strengthen Scotland's hand. It is a manifesto with

:34:42.:34:46.

fairness, opportunity A manifesto for a country that is

:34:47.:34:52.

welcoming and outward looking. A manifesto that reflects our belief

:34:53.:35:01.

in the infinite possibilities open to the people of Scotland if we work

:35:02.:35:06.

together in the common good, to build the kind

:35:07.:35:10.

of country we know we can be. I'm joined now by the deputy leader

:35:11.:35:17.

of the SNP Angus Robertson, Angus, welcome to the programme. I

:35:18.:35:29.

hope you can hear me all right. Hi, Jo, I can. I may have to hold my ear

:35:30.:35:35.

piece. I can make you out. What's changed on independence? Why no

:35:36.:35:41.

referendum now till after Brexit. You had wanted next year or early

:35:42.:35:45.

2019? Nothing's changed. We've said we are in favour of the people

:35:46.:35:49.

having a choice about their future when we have clarity, the outcome of

:35:50.:35:53.

the Brexit negotiations. Its sometimes lost in the debate at the

:35:54.:35:57.

end of the negotiation, there is supposed to be a period for the

:35:58.:36:02.

approval or rejection of that deal. Because, of course, all 27 other EU

:36:03.:36:07.

member states will have a say in our future as well as the European

:36:08.:36:10.

Parliament. In those circumstances, we feel that is the appropriate

:36:11.:36:14.

time, when it is right for everyone else to have a consideration in our

:36:15.:36:18.

future, we think we should have that right as well rather than having

:36:19.:36:21.

others making decisions on our behalf. Isn't it a massive climb

:36:22.:36:26.

down to change the timing for that second referendum. In Nicola

:36:27.:36:30.

Sturgeon's speech there was barely any mention of it. It seems to have

:36:31.:36:34.

disappeared at all. Is that because the dial in terms of support for

:36:35.:36:38.

independence isn't moving in your favour? No, whoever was briefing you

:36:39.:36:42.

on that subject clearly doesn't know their subject material. There's been

:36:43.:36:47.

no change to our proposals. We've taken the view now is not the time.

:36:48.:36:52.

The Prime Minister and nicks had a sturgeon are at one on that issue.

:36:53.:36:55.

It is important people understand what the outcome of the Brexit

:36:56.:37:00.

negotiations are likely to be. Increasingly, people are right to

:37:01.:37:05.

fear regardless of whether they voted Leave or Remain, we're heading

:37:06.:37:09.

for the most damaging form of Brexit. In those circumstances, it

:37:10.:37:13.

would be right, we've had an election on that in Scotland, where

:37:14.:37:18.

the party had a manifesto commitment to holding a referendum on the

:37:19.:37:24.

outcome after Brexit negotiations, we won the election about being

:37:25.:37:36.

taken outs of the EU. You'll invest another ?118 billion for extra

:37:37.:37:38.

services. Where will you get the money from? It is ?128 billion. It

:37:39.:37:49.

is a mixture of ?118 billion by reprofiling the way the UK using its

:37:50.:37:54.

overdraft. Rather that cutting as deeply as the UK Government is

:37:55.:37:57.

proposing to do, it is extending that. It includes those on the

:37:58.:38:02.

highest incomes in the UK seeing taxes go up from 45p to 50p. It

:38:03.:38:08.

would allow a UK Government and the SNP, this was outlined today, we are

:38:09.:38:12.

in favour of spending on health in England rising to match that in

:38:13.:38:15.

Scotland. We think that would be the best thing for the UK as a whole. It

:38:16.:38:19.

is a fully costed manifesto. Sure, how is it going to come about? How

:38:20.:38:27.

are you going to introduce a 50p rate for high earners across the UK?

:38:28.:38:33.

If there's a majority in the UK Parliament to be South, that is what

:38:34.:38:37.

we will pursue. You're right... You're not a UK-wide party? No. I

:38:38.:38:42.

think you're suggesting given the Tories are likely to win the

:38:43.:38:46.

election, we will be unable to see that voted for in the House of

:38:47.:38:50.

Commons. What we are outlining is what we will support in the House of

:38:51.:38:54.

Commons if there were a majority to be found, we'd work with other

:38:55.:38:57.

like-minded parties to deliver changes like that. Why not do it for

:38:58.:39:03.

Holyrood? You've had an opportunity to increase income tax. You've never

:39:04.:39:07.

taken the opportunity to put a 50p rate on? On the issue of having a

:39:08.:39:13.

difference higher tax rate, there is a risk of losing higher taxpayers to

:39:14.:39:17.

the rest of the UK. You could lead the way. If there's a UK-wide

:39:18.:39:21.

pressures, we're standing in a Westminster election and you're

:39:22.:39:24.

asking us about our Westminster manifesto for a Westminster

:39:25.:39:31.

election. You've never Sloane any enthusiasm for increasing income tax

:39:32.:39:34.

to actually get more money. You always blame Westminster. Now you're

:39:35.:39:39.

proposing a UK-wide increase of a 50p rate for high earners when you

:39:40.:39:43.

are a party in Scotland. You're relying on a progressive alliance

:39:44.:39:46.

the Labour Party has rejected. In other words, you've put forward a

:39:47.:39:51.

policy that will never be enacted on the basis of what you put in your

:39:52.:39:56.

manifesto? You're predicated that on knowledge of the outcome of the

:39:57.:39:58.

General Election. Do you know what it will be, Jo? No, I don't. Do you

:39:59.:40:04.

know this will happen? Are you putting realistic policies into your

:40:05.:40:08.

manifesto rather rather than focusing on the powers have at your

:40:09.:40:14.

disposal to change the economy? It stands to reason a Scottish

:40:15.:40:21.

political party will not form a majority in a Government in the UK.

:40:22.:40:26.

If there is a possibility in Parliament to make sensible

:40:27.:40:29.

suggestions about having fairness, an end to austerity, better

:40:30.:40:33.

priorities, protecting the pensions, these are the things we want in the

:40:34.:40:37.

SNP. There are people across the UK who want these things too. Depending

:40:38.:40:41.

on the outcome of the election, if there is a possibility like-minded

:40:42.:40:44.

voices in the rest of the UK would support a more progressive form of

:40:45.:40:48.

politician, we'd work with them and see changes on this as well as the

:40:49.:40:52.

likes of protecting the pension. But in Scotland, where we're standing,

:40:53.:40:55.

that means people have a straight choice. That's what the election is

:40:56.:40:58.

here between the SNP and Tories. It is only SNP

:40:59.:41:03.

Parliamentarians who will stand up for these points. Tories MPs will do

:41:04.:41:07.

whatever Theresa May says to them. You want to control your own

:41:08.:41:11.

immigration policy. Do you have targets for net migration? The first

:41:12.:41:15.

thing to say is our key target at the present time is not losing

:41:16.:41:19.

people. As we already know, we are losing people back to other EU

:41:20.:41:24.

countries. Scotland's experience is immigration is hugely beneficial. In

:41:25.:41:28.

the first instance, we are wanting to make sure EU nationals have

:41:29.:41:32.

guarantees they can remain. We want to make sure further nationalities

:41:33.:41:36.

outside the EU aren't being forced to leave. That's a very regular

:41:37.:41:41.

occurrence. We want the Scottish Government and the Scottish

:41:42.:41:45.

Parliament to have the powers to manage immigration in Scotland so we

:41:46.:41:48.

can guarantee the immigration levels which are right for Scotland. In the

:41:49.:41:52.

first instance, that is not seeing it decline. The next question you

:41:53.:41:56.

might ask is whether that's workable. It is. If it is possible

:41:57.:42:01.

between different provinces and regions in Australia and Canada, it

:42:02.:42:04.

should be possible to do in the UK too. There needs to be a political

:42:05.:42:08.

willingness in Westminster to work with the Scottish Government. I

:42:09.:42:13.

would invite the incoming UK Government to respect the wishes of

:42:14.:42:17.

the electorate in Scotland on this and other issues and work with us to

:42:18.:42:19.

deliver better policies. Now our Guest of the Day,

:42:20.:42:21.

Michael Gove grew up in Aberdeen. That's a city where

:42:22.:42:24.

the Scottish Conservatives They're also targeting the border

:42:25.:42:26.

constituency of Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk which has

:42:27.:42:29.

the smallest SNP This constituency's most famous

:42:30.:42:32.

former resident, the novelist Sir For years, the plot in this

:42:33.:42:40.

constituency was pretty predictable, because it was a safe

:42:41.:42:50.

Liberal Democrat seat. It was a real page turner

:42:51.:42:52.

at the last election in 2015 because the SNP

:42:53.:42:55.

won here but only be It is a gripping

:42:56.:42:59.

battle between those who want an independent

:43:00.:43:06.

Scotland and those who support the union

:43:07.:43:09.

between The Tories reckon they can

:43:10.:43:10.

hoover up the votes of people who are opposed

:43:11.:43:15.

to independence. I wanted to show to

:43:16.:43:30.

the voters I recognised what was at stake with Scotland's's

:43:31.:43:32.

future in the UK. I don't want another

:43:33.:43:34.

referendum on breaking away I feel that if the

:43:35.:43:36.

voters return me as a member of Parliament

:43:37.:43:42.

on the 8th of June, I would be a powerful voice

:43:43.:43:44.

as You're not worried that

:43:45.:43:46.

by quitting as an SNP, Like you had victory

:43:47.:43:50.

in the bag and you are I've never felt confident

:43:51.:43:55.

before elections. I work as hard as I possibly can

:43:56.:43:59.

to secure every single vote. They are more likely to be

:44:00.:44:02.

scaring our cameraman than talking about what used

:44:03.:44:12.

to be their signature issue... What I think is really

:44:13.:44:16.

important is in this constituency and in this election,

:44:17.:44:18.

the focus is not independence. We haven't had a Tory

:44:19.:44:21.

MP here for 52 years because we do not relate to their

:44:22.:44:26.

values. That was the Tory party

:44:27.:44:28.

of the past, never mind an You will see and I'm

:44:29.:44:30.

sure you heard today that the Tories are trying

:44:31.:44:37.

to frame this in a constitutional

:44:38.:44:39.

question, forget about who we are. The Liberal Democrats say

:44:40.:44:44.

it is about Brexit as they try not to get squeezed out

:44:45.:44:49.

the picture altogether... We are the only party

:44:50.:44:53.

that is pro-union. When I have been speaking

:44:54.:44:56.

to people, especially are deeply concerned

:44:57.:45:00.

and worried by Brexit. What will that mean

:45:01.:45:04.

for this local community? What does it mean

:45:05.:45:07.

for farming subsidies? This is their campaign

:45:08.:45:08.

HQ which suggests how seriously they take

:45:09.:45:19.

the battle for this seat. There is a polarisation,

:45:20.:45:23.

undoubtedly, between those who are Unionists and those

:45:24.:45:29.

who are Nationalists. However, during the length

:45:30.:45:31.

of the campaign, we hope that we are actually going

:45:32.:45:33.

to cut through and make people realise that this

:45:34.:45:36.

is not just something about another

:45:37.:45:42.

referendum but about the future of If you want to preserve the Borders

:45:43.:45:45.

and keep them a living community, you need to get more jobs

:45:46.:45:49.

in and better money for the people It maybe isn't as dramatic

:45:50.:45:52.

as Ivanhoe or Rob Roy in the books he is famous for, but it

:45:53.:45:56.

is a new chapter in politics here. Welcome to the general

:45:57.:45:59.

election in Scotland. How far is Ruth Davidson in the Tory

:46:00.:46:15.

brand? She detoxified the brand... Tories have not appeared in some

:46:16.:46:19.

seats for 52 years... They talk about pandas and the number of Tory

:46:20.:46:22.

MPs, there must have been some detox in the brand? What Ruth has done is

:46:23.:46:27.

convincingly ensured that people have a clear choice in this general

:46:28.:46:30.

election and in the Scottish election last time around. One party

:46:31.:46:36.

standing unambiguously for the United kingdom, that is the Scottish

:46:37.:46:39.

Conservatives studied art and the Labour Party? As we have from Jeremy

:46:40.:46:46.

Corbyn himself on Sunday night is potentially open to independence. He

:46:47.:46:49.

changed the text of his speech. He was going to say he rejected the

:46:50.:46:53.

idea of independence. He watered it down and indicated he may talk to

:46:54.:46:57.

the SNP and that the same time Nicola Sturgeon was playing footsie

:46:58.:47:01.

with him, indicating she may support Corbyn. You believe the Tories will

:47:02.:47:05.

not get a second independence referendum, even if the SNP win the

:47:06.:47:10.

mandate for a second time at this election, she will deprive, and you

:47:11.:47:14.

think she should, if they win in a second independence referendum? The

:47:15.:47:20.

only way to ensure that is stopped is to vote for conservative in

:47:21.:47:24.

Scotland. When I was campaigning in Aberdeen South with Ross Thomson and

:47:25.:47:29.

in Murray, that everywhere I went there were people who had been

:47:30.:47:33.

Labour and Liberal Democrat who were now supporting Scottish

:47:34.:47:36.

Conservatives not just because Ruth Davidson was head and shoulders

:47:37.:47:39.

above their own party leaders... She has distanced herself from Tory HQ?

:47:40.:47:46.

She is standing up for Scotland. She is different? She is actually

:47:47.:47:51.

surprisingly similar to to reason. They are both churchgoing

:47:52.:47:54.

modernisers and both people with a strong reverence for the

:47:55.:47:57.

Conservative Party's traditions and succumbed to be in the 21st-century.

:47:58.:48:05.

The only way that you can guarantee there will not be the Scottish

:48:06.:48:09.

National article creating the instability of a second independence

:48:10.:48:12.

referendum and propping up a coalition in Westminster is voting

:48:13.:48:17.

conservative in Scotland. He has ruled out any sort of deal... He

:48:18.:48:23.

ruled out a deal before... However convenient it may be for the

:48:24.:48:27.

Conservative Party to link Labour and the SNP, you can look at a whole

:48:28.:48:31.

list of candidates for those constituencies in Scotland on the

:48:32.:48:31.

BBC website. Although the big beasts of politics

:48:32.:48:33.

were clashing over the bank holiday, there are some smaller political

:48:34.:48:36.

animals roaming the Throughout this election we've been

:48:37.:48:38.

searching out the smaller parties also standing for election and today

:48:39.:48:45.

we've got the Young People's Party The Young People's Party wants

:48:46.:48:48.

to rebalance the economy towards young people,

:48:49.:48:54.

who they say are the most They want to replace all taxes

:48:55.:48:57.

with a single Land Value Tax They would like to cut

:48:58.:49:00.

all taxes on private income. They would like to roll welfare

:49:01.:49:07.

payments into a universal Citizen's Income that everyone

:49:08.:49:10.

was entitled to. On law and order, they would make

:49:11.:49:13.

release from prison dependent rather than specifying a

:49:14.:49:16.

length of time to be served. And they want to legalise drugs,

:49:17.:49:23.

brothels and fox-hunting. We've been joined in

:49:24.:49:26.

the studio by Thomas Hall. Welcome. You say you want to

:49:27.:49:35.

rebalance society and will favour of what you call the productive

:49:36.:49:39.

society, in mind younger people, why are you pitting generations against

:49:40.:49:42.

each other? We don't want to do that at all. Old people have young

:49:43.:49:48.

children and young children, young people, have older relatives and

:49:49.:49:54.

friends. The real question is whether we pitched the funding of

:49:55.:49:58.

public services from those that contribute to the economy through

:49:59.:50:01.

their work, or those that collect the benefits of the country for free

:50:02.:50:06.

through rents. But you want to ultimately replace all taxes with a

:50:07.:50:11.

single land value tax. It may be very simple but it is hardly fair,

:50:12.:50:17.

is it? We believe the land value tax is the fairest of all, and our views

:50:18.:50:23.

are supported over the ages by great politicians like Winston Churchill,

:50:24.:50:30.

economists like Adam Smith. And many commentators have argued the land

:50:31.:50:34.

value tax is the least bad. Right, but it does not take any differences

:50:35.:50:38.

or variations in population, where they live or their incomes, and what

:50:39.:50:46.

they do? I will say it is quite the opposite. Those that occupy valuable

:50:47.:50:51.

locations currently enjoy the value added by all of society for free.

:50:52.:50:55.

Council taxes there but is very regressive. Could you

:50:56.:51:05.

improve value tax? Indeed, one sensible way of ending up with

:51:06.:51:08.

results that we are after is a revaluation of the council tax

:51:09.:51:14.

bands. It has not been done since 1991, probably putting a cue more

:51:15.:51:18.

bands at the top end as well. Successive governments have shied

:51:19.:51:21.

away from doing that but basically you want to tax wealth and assets,

:51:22.:51:27.

and not income? We do not see land as an asset in the traditional

:51:28.:51:35.

sense. We really want to identify those assets are which are property

:51:36.:51:39.

in the sense that someone has made them and put work into them and are

:51:40.:51:45.

theirs, from naturally occurring gifts of nature, if you like, that

:51:46.:51:49.

everyone contributes the value of them. We see policies from other

:51:50.:51:57.

parties, that certain industries are in line for nationalisation and

:51:58.:52:00.

others aren't. You ask, why one and not the other? It comes down to

:52:01.:52:05.

rent. We understand a water company is different to a social

:52:06.:52:09.

manufacturer, for example. The Labour Party says they are looking

:52:10.:52:13.

at a land value tax to replace council tax and business rates, the

:52:14.:52:18.

Conservatives call it a garden tax. Do you support that? We believe land

:52:19.:52:22.

value tax to replace council tax and business rates is a step in the

:52:23.:52:25.

right direction. Where our party stands apart from the Labour Party

:52:26.:52:29.

is we propose tax would be a replacement far more than council

:52:30.:52:33.

tax and business rates. We would raise 200 billion from a residential

:52:34.:52:39.

land value tax. With that, we can replace council tax from stamp duty,

:52:40.:52:44.

land tax, inheritance tax, insurance premium tax, national insurance,

:52:45.:52:48.

employers insurance... A whole host of annoying taxes as well. Would you

:52:49.:52:53.

back a re-evaluation of council tax and properties in this country? No.

:52:54.:52:58.

Why not? It isn't fair if it hasn't been done since 1991? When you have

:52:59.:53:05.

re-evaluation of any tax, then sometimes you create new winners and

:53:06.:53:10.

new losers. And new and fairness. The thing about land value tax is it

:53:11.:53:14.

is an interesting idea and as we have heard it has been championed in

:53:15.:53:17.

the past by distinguished figures but always one championed by

:53:18.:53:21.

opposition parties, like the liberals in the 1920s and 1930s. But

:53:22.:53:25.

when in government, they have found the process of bringing about the

:53:26.:53:29.

land value tax five righty of reasons has not been as easy as they

:53:30.:53:33.

would have hoped. Just because it is difficult it doesn't mean it is not

:53:34.:53:38.

right. Why is the focus on taxing income rather than assets?

:53:39.:53:41.

In London and the south-east, your asset has probably owned you more

:53:42.:53:46.

money than that money you and from your job? I think the best form of

:53:47.:53:50.

taxation is taxing assets and income, and spreading taxation as

:53:51.:53:55.

widely as possible. However elegant, I admire the party's position, but

:53:56.:54:01.

all of your eggs in one taxation basket can be risky. Do you accept

:54:02.:54:07.

that? No, otherwise we would not be pitching this. Ultimately, all value

:54:08.:54:13.

is derived from the land we live on. Without it there would be no value

:54:14.:54:18.

at all. All of those taxes we have on income or capital gain, all of

:54:19.:54:21.

these other taxes, they are ultimately derived from value in the

:54:22.:54:27.

country that we live in. So, we think we can simplify the tax system

:54:28.:54:33.

from 16,000 pages to 100. All parties claim to be able to do that,

:54:34.:54:37.

except when they get into government they make it more competent at?

:54:38.:54:42.

Indeed. There must be a reason for that? Yes, the current economy is

:54:43.:54:46.

based around a small number of people who benefit from the current

:54:47.:54:48.

situation. The rapidly diminishing number of

:54:49.:54:53.

homeowners and the young population who don't. Thank you very much.

:54:54.:54:54.

Thank you. Now, fans of a neologism -

:54:55.:54:57.

that's a new word to you or I - will have been pleased to hear one

:54:58.:55:01.

being coined yesterday. and it's been used to describe

:55:02.:55:03.

the Prime Minister. Here she is being questioned

:55:04.:55:06.

by the Daily Mail sketchwriter I don't mean to be rude,

:55:07.:55:09.

but you seem to be Will we see a bit more optimism,

:55:10.:55:13.

a bit more Boris, perhaps? Because it does seem a very

:55:14.:55:23.

subdued campaign, so far. Let's talk about this new word

:55:24.:55:29.

with Clifford Sofield. He works for the

:55:30.:55:33.

Oxford English Dictionary Welcome to the Daily Politics.

:55:34.:55:46.

Glumbucket, a new word for you? It is a new word for me but it is not a

:55:47.:55:51.

new word. It has been used before. It isn't in the dictionary. We

:55:52.:55:54.

haven't had the chance to research it completely that this morning I

:55:55.:55:58.

came across a few examples from newspaper columns and one of my

:55:59.:56:02.

colleagues and examples on Twitter going back to 2012. I was really

:56:03.:56:09.

interested to learn that in 1923, the New York Times printed an

:56:10.:56:15.

article which described David Lloyd George as a green bucket, meaning a

:56:16.:56:21.

pessimist. After he left Downing Street and he had a pessimistic view

:56:22.:56:28.

of your's future prospects. -- gloombucket. And how do you write

:56:29.:56:33.

it, with a hyphen or without? We describe how they are used, I say

:56:34.:56:38.

that bucket words that are similar to this, like fast bucket or a lard

:56:39.:56:45.

bucket, or a loved bucket are generally written with a hyphen, or

:56:46.:56:49.

as a single word... I have seen glumbucket both ways. Will it make

:56:50.:56:54.

it into the dictionary? We will wait and see, whether or not to include a

:56:55.:56:58.

word depends on how widely it is used and how long it continues to be

:56:59.:57:02.

used. We are monitoring glumbucket and we'll find out! Stay with us,

:57:03.:57:07.

Michael Gove, do you think that is the correct assessment, a glumbucket

:57:08.:57:17.

for the Prime Minister? And it is a fair assessment? No, I think of

:57:18.:57:25.

glambucket... Clifford, what you think of that? Glambucket,

:57:26.:57:26.

pronounced as" Lambooij K"? Tell us about other -- tell us about

:57:27.:57:38.

other words like Philip, they are words that have evolved over time?

:57:39.:57:43.

-- filibuster. They describe a particular thing. Whether glum

:57:44.:57:50.

bucket will become part of parlance in future depends on whether people

:57:51.:57:55.

continue to use it. It is up to the British people to decide! Any other

:57:56.:57:58.

phrases which caught your eye during the election? I had to do some

:57:59.:58:09.

interviews about mugwump, an old political coal word going back to

:58:10.:58:15.

the early 19th century which had a lot of currency, and the late 19th

:58:16.:58:18.

century regarding US presidential elections. IC, will you be advising

:58:19.:58:26.

the campaign to take your new word on board? Yes, glambucket. They will

:58:27.:58:34.

be well advised to stay away from these words! I thought you were

:58:35.:58:37.

going to say to keep away from you! I will leave it up to the campaign

:58:38.:58:41.

chiefs to decide what degree of proximity is appropriate! Coming up

:58:42.:58:46.

with these new words and new phrases, I'm doing my best to add to

:58:47.:58:53.

the lexicon... Clifford so field, I will say thank you and stick to

:58:54.:58:55.

simple words. Thank you to Michael Gove as my

:58:56.:58:57.

guest of the day, goodbye! I've had enough spin.

:58:58.:59:04.

Fake news.

:59:05.:59:12.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS