01/06/2017 Daily Politics


01/06/2017

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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:41.

Her political rivals from the main parties lined up

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to criticise her for not taking part in the seven-way debate,

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with Amber Rudd speaking for the Conservative Party.

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As campaigning for the election enters its final week,

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Theresa May is about to give a speech setting out her vision

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After last night's debate, it's also Brexit day for Jeremy Corbyn,

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as he gives a speech outlining Labour's views later today.

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We ask Tony Blair's former flatmate, Lord Falconer, how he feels

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And the moodbox continues its travels around the country.

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Today, Ellie has wheeled it to the Lincolnshire town of Skegness.

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Have you decided who you're going to vote for yet?

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Because they are all as bad as one another.

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And they make promises and it doesn't come off.

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And with us for the whole of the programme today,

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is the Labour peer and former Lord Chancellor, Charlie Falconer.

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First though, the BBC election debate.

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Senior politicians from the seven main political parties took to

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Theresa May's rivals accused her of lacking "guts" for not attending,

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with Labour's Jeremy Corbyn deciding late on that he would take part.

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Here's Adam with the highlights of the debate.

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You could be watching Britain's Got Talent on the other side.

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But on this stage, it's all about which politician has talent.

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The debate's been electrified before it's even started by the last minute

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decision by Jeremy Corbyn to come and stand at this podium.

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The Conservatives sent the Home Secretary,

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who may have felt at times it was six against one.

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They are promising a dementia tax, an end to the winter fuel payment

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I think those people deserve to know by how much.

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Why is Britain the second biggest arms dealer in the world?

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Why are we selling to 22 of the 30 countries

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on the Government's own human rights watchlist?

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Amber Rudd seems so confident this is a country at ease with itself,

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Have you seen people sleeping around our stations?

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So, Amber Rudd cast herself in the role of the grown-up on stage.

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I just have to take on some of the Jeremy Corbyn's

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I mean, he has a money tree wishlist in his manifesto.

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It's very easy to think about how you spend money.

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It is much harder to think about how you raise money.

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It's as if he thinks it is some sort of game,

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a game of monopoly perhaps, where you ask the banker for the red

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money to buy the electrics, the green money to buy the railways

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and the yellow money to buy the gasworks.

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In the spin room, we watched the inevitable row about who'd

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negotiate the best Brexit, which turned into an argument

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A city the size of Hull came to this country never.

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That will be a Birmingham over a five-year period.

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We do it by having an Australian points-based system.

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If you've got the skills that this country needs, yes,

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Ukip just claimed people voted to leave the European Union and,

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in so doing, they also voted to curb immigration.

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I don't think we can read that into the result.

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Although quite a lot of the time, it just sounded like this...

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But, was the real star of the show the woman who wasn't there?

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So you've heard the squabbling and discord

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You've seen the coalition of chaos in action.

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But in the quiet of the polling booth, you have a clear choice.

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A vote for anyone other than Theresa May is a vote for

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Leadership is about understanding the people you represent.

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Is about not being so high and mighty you can't take advice.

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It is also about bringing people with you.

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It is also about ensuring your responsibilities to protect

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the safety and security of everybody in this country and to lead

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a Government that cares for everybody in the country.

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The Prime Minister is not here tonight.

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In fact, Bake Off is on BBC Two next.

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You are not worth Theresa May's time.

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Err, no time to watch Bake Off when there's post-match

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Be honest, would you rather be at home watching Bake Off?

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For all the people talking over themselves, and there

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was a lot of that tonight, my own view is the moderator should

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have had a switch that could switch their mics off.

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There's David Davis with his finger in his ear.

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Do you think it was all too much for him?

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Well, backstage, after 90 minutes of shouting and all their spinning,

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But has it changed how anyone will vote?

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Joining us in the studio is the Home Office Minister Brandon Lewis.

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Welcome to the programme. Why didn't Theresa May take part? I think

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actually, what we saw, the clip you showed, highlighted, she made the

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right decision. While everyone's shouting over each other she's

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getting on with the job. Talking to people across the country. Not

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running scared? No. She's been taking questions from the press far

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more than Jeremy Corbyn and depates about PMQs every week. She made the

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right decision as she was concerned. Not part of this seven- way

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squabble? I think she made a cowardly and arrogant decision. To

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make a snap election decision and not debate directly with the other

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party leaders treats the people with contempt. I saw a film about her

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meeting the electorate. She was outside a hang are. Tight in, people

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around her. The camera pulled away. There were about 20 people. It was a

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completely staged event. Her excuse for not doing the debate is she's

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meeting the electorate. But it is in such controlled circumstances. All

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politicians meet them in staged managed way. Jeremy Corbyn decided

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he was take part and was there defending Labour's policies?

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Outlining some of the fantasy stuff. Not able to... What is the fantasy

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stuff? With nationalisation, they haven't outlined how much it will

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cost, how they'll pay for it. When they talk about security, he has

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voted against anti-terror laws for 35 years. The Shadow Home Secretary

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wants to disband MI5. They cannot look after the security of our

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country coming from that position. In terms of being brave standing in

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a debate like this with rivals from other parties, did he at least put

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his money where his mouth is? Theresa May was at the debate on

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Monday night. She's... That wasn't a debate with with other politicians.

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It a discussion with the public. What about discussions with other

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party leaders? Why not She faced Jeremy Corbyn in PMQs week in, week

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out. The country's watching the Prime Minister. She had the time to

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come to the debate at Sky. Why not directly with Jeremy? The chaos we

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saw last night highlights why she did the right thing. She has been

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debating with Jeremy Corbyn at p. MQs week in, week out. She's

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focussed talking to people about what she can do for this country.

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Tony Blair never did a debate. This was very much before the pre-debate

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times. It is a legitimate point to raise. We're talking about now

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though. Let's talk about the magic money tree. Amber Rudd's phrase of

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the evening. I heard it several times. Talking about Labour and how

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they are going to fund their manifesto promises that amount to

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?48 billion. She has a point? We've made a deliberate decision, partly

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by borrowing and increasing taxes on the top 5%, we'll spend more money.

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What Brandon describes as our fantasy politics, we've made a clear

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decision to abandon austerity. The Tories have decided to keep going.

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That's the choice for the country. The institute of fiscal did youedies

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say they doubt very much the tax receipts will come in to fund that

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?48 billion. You will tax more, the 5%. You'll spend more but you

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haven't costed it in terms of guaranteeing those tax receipts.

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Nobody could guarantee it. The question is what sort of return

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would you get from the tax increases and our estimate is the best. But,

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there are risks in relace to it. I accept that. In terms of the magic

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money tree, did you get a feeling from the debate people watching and

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taking part, if you look at the progressive alliance, people are fed

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up with us a starity? We have to try to live within our means. We've been

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up front about the fact we have to do it. You haven't paid off the

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deficit. Debt is still rising. The deficit is still ?52 billion for the

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year ending March this year. In a way, austerity hasn't done what it

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was supposed to do. If I can finish. That highlights the key point. We

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got that deficit Labour left us with. ?151 billion down to ?51

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billion. That was seven years ago That's how bad it is. Labour haven't

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costed this out. They've not outlined what nationalisation would

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cost. How of they're going to use this Corporation Tax change they've

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spent 12 times over. Corporation Tax take is going up. They have figures.

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You may not like them. Where are your figures? It is easy to get them

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wrong if you don't have them on social care and how many pensioners

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will lose the winter fuel allowance. We've outlined our commitments. We

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are delivering our priorities in the budget and manfess toe. It is using

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the money the country's got rather than pretending to do things we

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haven't the money for. The The figures are not there. What you are

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disguising, Brandon, is what the Tories will do is cut and cut as

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they said they would in the March 2017 budget. The problem you had

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with the social care thing, it was very indicative of the sorts of cuts

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that are coming. Take away people's... It is no different to

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what it is now. It is different to what's now. Only in terms of Theresa

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May saying she'll race the floor. ? Terms of people paying for social

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care they do that now. They didn't have to pay for care in their homes,

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now they do. We saw a lot of noisy support for Jeremy Corbyn outside

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and from the audience last night. Is that enthusiasm going to transfer to

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the quiet of the polling booth? I have no idea what will happen. All I

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can tell you is two things. We went into this election on the basis it

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was about Brexit. We're coming out of it and it's about what Britain's

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going to be like. The British people or some of them, are very, very

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concerned we are returning to Thatcher. The crowd which greeted

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Jeremy Corbyn in Cambridge, each side of the street was lined with

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people. I don't know whether they will vote. A lot are very young, if

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that group of people does go the ballot box, I think we're in for

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some surprises. How do you explain the change in the polls. The 24

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point lead the Tories had which some polls suggest has been now slashed

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to just 3 points. There are a whole range ofs poles out there. The only

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pole that matters is June 8th. What people will be doing on June 8th. I

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hope, what I'm getting when I talk to people on the doorstep, is make a

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decision about who they want as Prime Minister. Someone who can

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stand up for difficult things, say this is an issue which needs to be

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dealt with. We have a plan which lab can't. Someone to get the right deal

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for this country as we leave the EU. Something Jeremy didn't want to

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touch on. We talked briefly about some of the noisy support for Jeremy

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Corbyn outside. This Well, this morning,

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the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said he thought there

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was a left-wing bias. It was a yammering

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cacophony of views. Even by the BBC's own standards,

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I think you would agree, that audience was notably

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to the left of many And, you had Plaid Cymru and

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the SNP and Liberal Democrats Of course, there was a certain sort

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of echo chamber for left-wing views. Joining us from our Exeter

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studio is Andrew Hawkins from the polling company ComRes,

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who selected the audience. Andrew, what do you say to Boris

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Johnson's complaints that was a notably left-wing audience? Well, I

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mean, if you have seven party representatives and five of those

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represent parties to the left and only two to the right, then the

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phrase he used, yammering cock off if I, the reality was the audience

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was scrupulously put together and selected and verified. I think a

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politician's clapometer is probably not the best way to judge how

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representative it is of the voting public. It's actually to open the

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bonnet, as it were. To understand how that audience was put together.

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It's like constructing a giant 3D jigsaw. You have to look at how

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representative, making sure it is of the 2015 result. Making sure it is

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representative of the current voting intention. Make sure it is

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representative of people who voted remain and leave and make sure it is

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demographically representative as well. It was. What did you think

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when you watched the debate? Did you get any sense despite having gone

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through those hoops and hurdles, it felt somehow one-sided or more

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towards one side than the other? Yeah. Certainly, there's no question

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in my mind that Amber Rudd and, to an extent, Paul Nuttall were up

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against a mock vocal crowd. That's for sure. But, actually, when you

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watch what the audience were doing, half the audience were clapping at

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those moments and half weren't. You don't hear the ones who are not

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clapping. Only the ones who do. So, actually, yeah, it's true, it was

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noisy. I can understand why it came across like that. But, when you look

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at what people or how people are behaving, it wasn't the case. In the

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end, I presume whatever looks good on paper, the reality can somehow

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appear quite different? You can, of course, get a dynamic where people

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on one end of the spectrum are a reluctant to make as much noise as

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people on the other end of the spectrum. There may have been a bit

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of that last night as well. Thank you.

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Polly Toynbee from The Guardian and Seb Payne from the Financial Times.

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They're outside enjoying the sunshine.

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Seb Payne, the Financial Times has come out in support of Theresa May

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in this election albeit rather grudgingly. Why? We looked at the

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options on offer and we did not really like any of them. Our view is

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pro-market and free trade and capitalism. It really was almost an

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ugly baby contest for us to see which one we felt would be the best

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thing. We live in a democracy and this election is about choosing who

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we want to be the next Prime Minister and we consider Jeremy

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Corbyn's programme would be quite dangerous for the country

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economically, it would not see growth and prosperity particularly

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for our readers in the City of London and therefore, Theresa May is

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probably the best person to get us through the Brexit deal. We said she

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is the safer bet, not option, it is a bet because we think Brexit is a

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bet and we will see how it turns out. Was the Prime Minister wrong to

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skip the debate last night Polly Toynbee? Will it have major

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consequences or does it not really matter? I'm not sure about major

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consequences but the one thing people will take from it is that she

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was there and ran away but Jeremy Corbyn was there and that was quite

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important, I think. They may take away from it that Amber Rudd did

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rather better than she would have done and she came out of it

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reasonably well. The shy Tories in the audience did not back her up

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very much. They were there but they were awfully shy. She was run out on

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her own. But she made a reasonable fist of it. But as ever, what

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surprises people when they see Jeremy Corbyn is that he is so much

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better than they thought he would be. He has the great advantage of

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having started the campaign with very low expectations and he has

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well exceeded them. Going back to the issue of Brexit because

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certainly both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have got speeches on

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that today. Seb Payne, do you think it has come a little -- too little

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and a little too late? This is part of the reset that the Conservatives

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are trying to do now, focusing on Brexit because on any other topics,

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they are an slightly shaky ground, like the manifesto, spending more

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social care. Labour has been able to score some points there whereas an

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Brexit, which is what the election was supposed to be about four

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Theresa May, she's focusing on being the best person to get the Brexit

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deal and having been around the country, I think voters get the

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sense. When you ask do you want sitting opposite Michel Barnier,

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Jean-Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, people feel

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Theresa May is probably the best person so if they focused on that

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message and hammer it again and again, that is the place can

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probably the get the best hay from but at this stage, it might be a bit

:19:41.:19:45.

too late. Will it change any votes now, Polly, on the issue of Brexit?

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If you drill down on what both parties are saying in the manifesto

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is an Brexit, there is not much to choose between them. It is a rising

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Brexit has not played bigger and it has certainly surprise the Lib Dems

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who thought they were going to get a big surge on the back of this and I

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was surprised and in some ways have been disappointed as well. When

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people look at what Theresa May has done so far in her approach is to

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Europe, it has been horrendous and aggressive. She has behaved as if

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they were the enemy. She talks in kind of military terms. There's no

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doubt that all that Labour's team would be infinitely better, more

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emollient, treat them as friends and partners and how are we going to get

:20:27.:20:29.

through this as best we can, both sides together? Whereas Theresa May

:20:30.:20:31.

and her team, as written on her bus, are going at it like a bull in a

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china shop. I think Labour has, Europe has not been particularly

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Brett Lee towards us, Angela Merkel said this week we can't rely

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Britain's only does not matter how friendly you are towards Europe,

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they will be tough with us so they will be tough on both sides. It

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depends what you mean by top. What you what is a deal that works well

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for Europe, we don't want as Europe fall apart, even Theresa May says

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she is very much does not want to do damage to Europe and I don't think

:20:58.:21:01.

they want to do damage to us. If we get ourselves into a stupid

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confrontation with people like Boris and David Davis and Liam Fox, and

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now Theresa May herself as well, saying extraordinarily aggressive

:21:10.:21:12.

things, particularly during the election, which they will regret

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what they have to sit around a table with 27 other countries, a lot of

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who will be fuming at the muddy being said in the election campaign.

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But will they just think it is an election campaign, Seb Payne, that

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it's Theresa May facing the electorate even if it hasn't all

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been about Brexit up until now? Do you get a sense from other European

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leaders about how they view things like the U-turn on social care? Will

:21:35.:21:40.

they see that as an opportunity for them in negotiations? It will

:21:41.:21:42.

certainly raise some eyebrows because the whole image that has

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come from Theresa May, from the UK and British press, is of a strong

:21:53.:21:55.

and stable leader and a lot of what we have seen in this campaign, as

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people have said, is a bit more weak and wobbly. It will certainly raise

:21:59.:22:00.

eyebrows about what will happen when they sit down and begin the

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negotiations which, don't forget, will happen just two weeks after the

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election is over. But ultimately at the end of the day, Europe is not

:22:06.:22:08.

really bothered who it sits with, it just wants to get on with it and

:22:09.:22:11.

start the article 15 process and so much of the actual debating will be

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done behind closed doors, a lot of bargaining and horse trading, that

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we won't actually see. And they do know ultimately, Theresa May needs

:22:20.:22:22.

to act tough and she is trying to appeal to the 52% that backed Brexit

:22:23.:22:26.

in the referendum. I don't think it matters too much for the original

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outcome. I think you are completely wrong about that, I think the result

:22:32.:22:34.

of this election is going to very much affect what Europe thinks of

:22:35.:22:40.

the UK. If Labour won the election, then the profound sense in Europe

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would be that the demotic talk of Mrs May, those mad allegations that

:22:47.:22:50.

European officials and politicians were trying to interfere in the

:22:51.:22:54.

election, was being repudiated by the British people. The view that

:22:55.:23:01.

they see Britain as one amorphous mass is completely wrong. Finally

:23:02.:23:06.

come on the magic money tree, Polly Toynbee, we would all like one of

:23:07.:23:10.

course but if that line going to be pushed, I presume very hard by the

:23:11.:23:14.

Conservatives, and that Labour's policies, which the IFS are not

:23:15.:23:18.

wildly up to mystic about? They had said the same about the Tory

:23:19.:23:20.

manifesto which has very little costings in it at all. I don't think

:23:21.:23:24.

that we might Labour has suggested spending any more than the Tories

:23:25.:23:27.

are going to be spending on tax cuts, corporation tax, inheritance

:23:28.:23:33.

tax, taxes that benefit business and the better off. Enormously

:23:34.:23:36.

extravagant tax cuts that the country certainly cannot afford at a

:23:37.:23:38.

time when our public services are falling apart and I think that is

:23:39.:23:43.

going to be the tension. Does she really mean austerity? No, she means

:23:44.:23:47.

giving away money to some people while taking yet more away from

:23:48.:23:51.

everybody's public services. Polly Toynbee and Seb Payne, thank you.

:23:52.:23:54.

Now, the Daily Politics moodbox is on tour during the election

:23:55.:23:56.

campaign, and today Ellie is in the Lincolnshire town of Skegness.

:23:57.:24:00.

You have got the weather for it! On a beach, I can see.

:24:01.:24:12.

They say it is bracing in Skegness but actually, it is just lovely and

:24:13.:24:17.

warm and very nice. It has been well documented that Skegness and Boston

:24:18.:24:23.

voted decidedly for Brexit in last year's EU referendum, 75% voted to

:24:24.:24:27.

Leave which is one of the recent Ukip have got their eyes on this

:24:28.:24:30.

seat at the coming general election. Of course, there is one week to go

:24:31.:24:36.

before we vote, when people in this town and around the country make

:24:37.:24:39.

that big decision but have people made the decision? There's a week to

:24:40.:24:43.

go, is there any point in any of the politicians are still campaigning?

:24:44.:24:46.

That is what we are asking today. Our people decided or undecided?

:24:47.:24:52.

Have you decided who you'll vote for in the election?

:24:53.:25:03.

What, what made you make your decision?

:25:04.:25:15.

I just decided that it's better to keep what we have at the moment.

:25:16.:25:19.

Because they're all as bad as one another.

:25:20.:25:22.

They make promises and it doesn't come off.

:25:23.:25:25.

He hasn't even decided if he's going to make a decision!

:25:26.:25:34.

We want to do what's best for the disabled.

:25:35.:25:48.

We're not sure which party yet is going to do that.

:25:49.:25:50.

Because of the weak leadership of the Labour Party,

:25:51.:26:00.

I've decided to vote for Theresa May for the first time ever

:26:01.:26:03.

which is really a break with family tradition.

:26:04.:26:05.

Trying to do what's best for the country

:26:06.:26:07.

and I think Jeremy Corbyn isn't best for this country.

:26:08.:26:09.

I think Theresa May's just wanting it for herself and what she wants

:26:10.:26:15.

I don't think she's taken anybody else into consideration.

:26:16.:26:18.

There's been too much on the news for me to take it in.

:26:19.:26:24.

Otherwise I would decide, if I could understand it a bit more.

:26:25.:26:30.

Just listening to the policies of parties.

:26:31.:26:37.

Forget the fighting between the politicians,

:26:38.:26:41.

it's politics which is what's important.

:26:42.:26:43.

Doesn't affect me or my wages or my house or anything.

:26:44.:26:54.

Do you really not think it does? No.

:26:55.:26:56.

The good people of Skegness and those on holiday here

:26:57.:27:19.

The trouble is, I can't decide whether it's the decideds

:27:20.:27:24.

or undecideds who've won our moodbox today.

:27:25.:27:26.

The one thing I have decided is I need an ice cream!

:27:27.:27:31.

It's a tough job, but someone has got to do it, what a glorious day!

:27:32.:27:49.

Throughout this election, we've been speaking to the smaller parties also

:27:50.:27:52.

standing for election and today it's the turn of the SDP,

:27:53.:27:55.

The SDP was founded in March 1981 by four

:27:56.:27:58.

former Labour members - dubbed the Gang Of Four.

:27:59.:28:00.

The party say they would actively

:28:01.:28:01.

campaign for a fair, controlled and harmonious Brexit

:28:02.:28:03.

process in the best interests of the British people and with due

:28:04.:28:06.

consideration to our EU friends and neighbours.

:28:07.:28:08.

They would offer free school breakfast and lunch

:28:09.:28:10.

Remove all tax from those earning the minimum wage.

:28:11.:28:15.

Remove all tax from those They would introduce annual

:28:16.:28:17.

referendums to coincide with May elections to cover issues such

:28:18.:28:22.

as the death penalty, hunting and euthanasia.

:28:23.:28:27.

And they would ensure that all train operators provide high quality free

:28:28.:28:30.

Wi-Fi on routes that exceed 30 minutes.

:28:31.:28:32.

And we're joined by the SDP's

:28:33.:28:35.

Thank you for joining us. The party survived, I thought it had gone out

:28:36.:28:46.

of existence! It's been going for 27 years. It has not stopped. As it

:28:47.:28:52.

almost faded into nonexistence and come back? I think there's been a

:28:53.:28:56.

bit of a resurgence over the past few months. Few months? Absolutely,

:28:57.:29:02.

as the previous... I mean, politics has really changed, hasn't it?

:29:03.:29:06.

You've got all of the different parties changing their direction,

:29:07.:29:09.

changing their position, Labour on the far left now and the Tories

:29:10.:29:12.

going far right and the Lib Dems going far-fetched. There's a big gap

:29:13.:29:16.

in the middle. Right, except you have also changed your mind because

:29:17.:29:19.

last year you were the Parliamentary candidate for Ukip in the Sheffield

:29:20.:29:22.

Brightside by-election and he finished second, so when did you

:29:23.:29:27.

switch parties? A few months ago, there two parties that are boys

:29:28.:29:32.

campaign for Brexit, the SDP were campaigning for Brexit... Which is a

:29:33.:29:36.

complete change from its early days. For over 20 years, they have been

:29:37.:29:39.

Eurosceptic, they campaign to withdraw and not join the European

:29:40.:29:44.

single currency, they campaign... Mike Baird I would not associated

:29:45.:29:49.

with Roy Jenkins, a bit of a shift. A total shift but does that mean you

:29:50.:29:53.

are closer with Ukip as a result of your scepticism in the SDP? Totally

:29:54.:29:59.

not, the SDP has always stood for direct democracy and proportional

:30:00.:30:02.

representation, democracy meaning being ruled by the electorate, not

:30:03.:30:06.

the EU, all the way through, since the Lisbon Treaty, the Maastricht

:30:07.:30:10.

Treaty, the SDP has campaigned for withdrawal from the European Union.

:30:11.:30:15.

But as recently as January, in terms of your party allegiance, you

:30:16.:30:18.

tweeted Brexit is going to vote in the House of Commons, and if you

:30:19.:30:22.

want Brexit, vote Ukip to make your voice heard. So why should anyone

:30:23.:30:28.

believe you have genuinely switched allegiance? All parties have changed

:30:29.:30:31.

their position and if you are a person of integrity, you don't just

:30:32.:30:35.

follow the party line. The Labour Party has shifted and a lot of the

:30:36.:30:38.

politicians have shifted with the party rather than their own beliefs.

:30:39.:30:42.

The Conservatives, the same. My view has always been all along,

:30:43.:30:46.

democracy, leave the European Union and now obviously as the Ukip party

:30:47.:30:50.

line has shifted, mine has not. I'm not just going to follow that party.

:30:51.:30:56.

What attracted you to the failure that has been the SDP? You can argue

:30:57.:31:04.

they influenced the Labour Party. Changed their direction. Also

:31:05.:31:06.

changed the direction the Conservative Party is going in. In

:31:07.:31:10.

that way, how do you measure success? In power or influence

:31:11.:31:19.

flewence. The SDP has opportunity to exert influence. If If you've moved

:31:20.:31:27.

from Ukip to SDP? Who had confidence in Lord Owen? He blue up the SDP. Is

:31:28.:31:34.

it filled with people like you who are constantly changing our

:31:35.:31:38.

position. People think you're mad. Maybe this do. If you look at andy

:31:39.:31:46.

Taylor, a member since 1982, and through to 2017 for the SDP? It has

:31:47.:31:53.

continued, relentless, quietly in the background trying to work with

:31:54.:31:57.

vote Leaf and others to achieve its goal. You're standing a good slate

:31:58.:32:04.

of cand says in Sheffield and that's it? In Glasgow as Ant well. We're

:32:05.:32:11.

starting slowly but surely. June 9th will be a very different state of

:32:12.:32:14.

politician. Either Jeremy Corbyn's party will be victorious, unlikely.

:32:15.:32:19.

What are the Labour moderates going to do? Form their own party? Nobody

:32:20.:32:25.

knows what will happen next. What the last two years has taught us is

:32:26.:32:28.

you just expect the unexpected. Can I tell you one thing for certain.

:32:29.:32:33.

The one thing that will not happen is people will move to the SDP Will

:32:34.:32:38.

you have Labour moderates going over to the other party? No, we are not.

:32:39.:32:45.

You can't speak. If you ask Labour both people in the parliamentary

:32:46.:32:49.

Labour Party and the wider activists, are they united behind a

:32:50.:32:56.

manifesto that says an end to austerity, retains Trident... Are

:32:57.:33:00.

they united behind Jeremy Corbyn, that's the problem? There have been

:33:01.:33:03.

issues about Jeremy Corbyn. Ultimately what happens in the

:33:04.:33:08.

general election and what our basic policy is will determine... No be

:33:09.:33:14.

predict what had happen next or the attitudes of politicians. No-one

:33:15.:33:18.

will predict what party you'll be in next. Thank you for coming in.

:33:19.:33:22.

So what else has been going on in the campaign?

:33:23.:33:24.

It was sunny. It might have gone behind a cloud. Tip for viewers. If

:33:25.:33:34.

you are out on the campaign trail and you happen to spot a celebrity,

:33:35.:33:39.

well, you need to have your selfie technique nailed. Like this. There

:33:40.:33:44.

you go. We've got it pretty good, Jo, though you don't look too happy

:33:45.:33:48.

to be in my selfie. Sorry!

:33:49.:33:54.

Selfie's take practice. One candidate has been lending a hand

:33:55.:33:57.

with that today. Another thought for you. Back when I was 16, I got up to

:33:58.:34:02.

many things. But voting, of course, wasn't one of them. Whether to lower

:34:03.:34:07.

the legal voting age is a subject that came up for discussion at a BBC

:34:08.:34:12.

locality radio event. We start today's round-up with a question

:34:13.:34:14.

from a student in Sheffield. There may have been a few blushes

:34:15.:34:18.

on the BBC Sheffield election debate panel when the President

:34:19.:34:21.

of the local college Student Union, So, why can't we just

:34:22.:34:23.

get votes at 16? At 16 you're old enough

:34:24.:34:28.

to marry your MP, have sex with your MP and go to war and fight

:34:29.:34:31.

for your MP and die for your MP, The Labour, the Lib Dems

:34:32.:34:35.

and the Green Party all support For today only, you can pick up

:34:36.:34:39.

a copy of the left-wing socialist newspaper,

:34:40.:34:45.

The Morning Star, for free. Copies of the paper's

:34:46.:34:48.

Election Special are being given away in shops instead

:34:49.:34:50.

of at the usual prize of ?1. And, mastering the art

:34:51.:34:53.

of selfies with Boris Johnson. Now, where's that screen

:34:54.:34:59.

flip button thing? It's out of focus and you're

:35:00.:35:01.

barely in frame but post The ghost train at Thorpe Park just

:35:02.:35:16.

got even more terrifying. These frightening characters will

:35:17.:35:23.

chase thrillseekers on the ride, Ukip's David Kurten's been outlining

:35:24.:35:29.

plans for education this morning. We need to challenge the viewpoint

:35:30.:35:37.

that says academic schools are up here and everything else is down

:35:38.:35:41.

there and selection is bad. Saying some children should be

:35:42.:35:45.

released from school age 14 And Jeremy Corbyn's following in

:35:46.:35:48.

the footsteps of Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber and Rihanna by gracing

:35:49.:35:54.

the cover the NME. Now, as we've been speaking,

:35:55.:36:03.

Theresa May has been setting out her vision of Brexit as a "great

:36:04.:36:10.

national mission" that offers the promise of

:36:11.:36:13.

transforming this country. Later today, Jeremy Corbyn will also

:36:14.:36:14.

deliver a speech on Brexit, giving Labour's view

:36:15.:36:17.

of the opportunities Negotiations with Brussels are set

:36:18.:36:19.

to formally begin 11 days after the election,

:36:20.:36:23.

so where exactly do the parties stand regarding this

:36:24.:36:26.

country's future relationship The Conservatives intend

:36:27.:36:29.

to leave the single market And seek a "deep and

:36:30.:36:34.

special partnership" The free movement of people

:36:35.:36:38.

from the EU would end. A Great Repeal Bill would

:36:39.:36:43.

incorporate EU law into UK law. Labour says it would scrap

:36:44.:36:47.

the current Brexit white paper. And that its negotiations

:36:48.:36:51.

would emphasise securing a tariff-free relationship

:36:52.:36:54.

with the single market The party says free movement

:36:55.:36:56.

will end after Brexit and they'd And would immediately guarantee

:36:57.:37:03.

the rights of all EU The Liberal Democrats want to stay

:37:04.:37:08.

members of the single And they want a referendum

:37:09.:37:12.

on the final deal. The SNP, likewise, want

:37:13.:37:18.

to protect Scotland's place And they are demanding a place

:37:19.:37:21.

for the Scottish Government Ukip, meanwhile, want to ensure

:37:22.:37:26.

a clean break with the single market, the customs union

:37:27.:37:32.

and the ECJ. And they insist there should be no

:37:33.:37:34.

Brexit divorce bill, or future contributions

:37:35.:37:38.

to the EU budget. Let's hear what the Prime

:37:39.:37:42.

Minister has been saying We had hoped to hear from Theresa

:37:43.:37:51.

May's speech but she's running a late. Brandon Lewis joins us. What

:37:52.:37:59.

does the great national exit mean in terms of hard policies? It is

:38:00.:38:02.

recognising there is an opportunity here. We've made a decision as a

:38:03.:38:06.

country, which we've been clear we'll deliver on. We want to take

:38:07.:38:11.

this opportunity to be a more global, outward looking country to

:38:12.:38:14.

do trade deals around the world and with our European partners. To do

:38:15.:38:18.

something people on doorsteps yesterday when I was out are clear

:38:19.:38:22.

about. They want to see the parties very clearly dealing with

:38:23.:38:25.

immigration. Something the Labour Party isn't doing. How does that

:38:26.:38:28.

translate into policies. I would argue we don't know much more than

:38:29.:38:32.

we did several months ago in terms of what the offer is from the

:38:33.:38:35.

Conservatives or Labour in those terms. What does it mean in hard

:38:36.:38:41.

policy terms? We do know more. I think first of all, from the Labour

:38:42.:38:48.

point of view, I was debating with Diane Abbott earlier. ... Labour's

:38:49.:38:53.

said in their manifesto they want an end to freedom of movement. I will

:38:54.:39:00.

tackle Charlie Fawke on on what that means. A clear point for us is

:39:01.:39:05.

immigration should be at sustainable levels. Tens of thousands. We need

:39:06.:39:11.

to negotiate good trade deals with countries around the world. Attract

:39:12.:39:15.

the by the and best to come here to continue to grow our economy. I

:39:16.:39:20.

still don't know how you'll achieve those things through policy. Since

:39:21.:39:24.

you brought up immigration, the Labour manifesto says it will be an

:39:25.:39:28.

end to free movement. How many people on a net migration basis

:39:29.:39:31.

should be coming here year-on-year? I don't think that's possible to

:39:32.:39:35.

say. The Prime Minister would agree with that. You should stop people

:39:36.:39:39.

being able to come unless they have a job and the job has got to be

:39:40.:39:44.

something that somebody in the UK can't do. You'll end all unskilled

:39:45.:39:50.

labour coming from the EU? In relation to unskilled labour, there

:39:51.:39:54.

will be significant areas in the British economy where you will need

:39:55.:39:58.

unskilled labour. The focus in immigration terms, has to be what

:39:59.:40:03.

promotes the UK economy. When I say what promotes the UK economy, I moo

:40:04.:40:07.

entwo things. You shouldn't be taking jobs away from the UK where

:40:08.:40:11.

there are people who want those jobs. Secondly, have you to identify

:40:12.:40:15.

where there are bits of industry, bits of economic activity, where if

:40:16.:40:18.

you did take away the immigration, not just from the European Union but

:40:19.:40:22.

elsewhere, that would damage the economy. What does that mean in

:40:23.:40:27.

terms of farming and agriculture. Already they're expressing fears

:40:28.:40:31.

they won't be able to get the seasonal workers they need. Would

:40:32.:40:34.

you be happy to see unskilled working coming to work in that

:40:35.:40:38.

industry? I don't know what the numbers are. If you needed unskilled

:40:39.:40:42.

workers in agriculture and couldn't provide that from our own

:40:43.:40:45.

population, you would need to allow that to happen. We'd still have

:40:46.:40:52.

unskilled workers coming from the EU I believe we will in certain areas.

:40:53.:40:56.

If terms of the numbers of tens of thousands, it hasn't been hit

:40:57.:41:00.

before. Now you haven't put a timescale on when you will reach

:41:01.:41:03.

that. Do you need to put a timescale on it? We are clear we want to do

:41:04.:41:09.

something positive to the economy over the course of the next

:41:10.:41:11.

Parliament. You have a target. Criticised Labour for not having a

:41:12.:41:15.

target. You haven't said when you'd deliver it? . We did, over the

:41:16.:41:20.

course of the next Parliament. By 2020? The draft figures that came

:41:21.:41:24.

out last week for the last year show the policies taken forward by

:41:25.:41:27.

Theresa May in part when she was Home Secretary as well as Prime

:41:28.:41:31.

Minister are working. We've seen an 85,000 fall in the last year alone.

:41:32.:41:37.

This is building on the work we've done, change how social housing is

:41:38.:41:41.

allowed and upskilling people here to take on these jobs. How long will

:41:42.:41:48.

that take. You talk about this upskilling, how long will that take?

:41:49.:41:53.

The upskilling of the British population when you'll remove EU

:41:54.:41:57.

immigrants? This is a holistic approach. We are not just

:41:58.:42:01.

controlling our borders but also having that industrial strategy. We

:42:02.:42:05.

bring in apprenticeships. How long will it take? The benefit we're

:42:06.:42:09.

already seeing, more and more people getting into work. Two million

:42:10.:42:15.

people into the economy... I'm talking about reduction in

:42:16.:42:18.

immigration. We've seen 8 a,000 fall in the last year alone. The British

:42:19.:42:21.

people want to see a Government that is clearly looking to deal with this

:42:22.:42:27.

issue. That's... What is extraordinary is they slay they'll

:42:28.:42:31.

bring it down to 10,000 within five years. Mrs May's been the Home

:42:32.:42:36.

Secretary for six years and has failed repeatedly year after year.

:42:37.:42:43.

Why not do something in relation to non-EU immigration which is well

:42:44.:42:48.

over 100,000 net at the moment? As you know full well, Charlie, you

:42:49.:42:53.

were overtalking me earlier on, this is a Home Secretary who's you is

:42:54.:42:57.

down 900 bogus colleges offer the nine years. Has it brought numbers

:42:58.:43:03.

down? Yes, it is. If you look at the figures just last week aLen, it is

:43:04.:43:07.

down 85,000 just last year alone because of the work done over the

:43:08.:43:10.

last few years that is now flowing through. There is always more to do.

:43:11.:43:14.

We cant to tackle this challenge. It is not clear in the Labour

:43:15.:43:19.

manifesto. Developing and implementing fair immigration rules.

:43:20.:43:23.

No-one can disagree with that. Depends what you mean by clear. Has

:43:24.:43:32.

Labour got a clear, identifiable stance on immigration? You stop

:43:33.:43:36.

people coming from the E. Without any proper basis. You said you would

:43:37.:43:43.

be prepared to have seasonal workers coming in. They are unskilled.

:43:44.:43:48.

Aagree. That is a basis. What about other sectors? Equal numbers coming

:43:49.:43:55.

in on retail. Hospitality? Our policy is you identify what the

:43:56.:43:57.

needs of the economy are in a particular... The needs could be

:43:58.:44:01.

300,000 and you would be happy with that? You have to try to reduce free

:44:02.:44:06.

movement of the labour. What's coming at the moment are people

:44:07.:44:10.

coming for work and people who have no job. I think it will be reduced.

:44:11.:44:14.

I don't know by how much. You're saying tens of thousands in five

:44:15.:44:18.

years' time? Over the course of the Parliament. By 2022, that's at

:44:19.:44:25.

guarantee. EU or non-EU? Mying Gration levels coming down to

:44:26.:44:29.

sustainable levels, tens of thousands over the next Parliament.

:44:30.:44:33.

You will be held to account over that issue? That's in our manifesto.

:44:34.:44:42.

Labour wants tariff-free trade but won't advocate membership of the

:44:43.:44:45.

customs Euanen. Free movement will end. How is your position any

:44:46.:44:51.

different to Brandon's? We want a close re-Laoisship with the EU. If

:44:52.:44:56.

the Government stays in power, how can you expect to have a close

:44:57.:45:01.

relationship with the EU when Mrs May's language about how she will

:45:02.:45:05.

deal with the EU is one of hostility and confrontation? She accused... In

:45:06.:45:10.

policy terms, that's not a difference. Having a close

:45:11.:45:13.

relationship or less close, these are words. In terms of policies, how

:45:14.:45:18.

is the Labour position in terms of Brexit negotiations any different to

:45:19.:45:22.

the Conservatives? We will do everything we can can to get an

:45:23.:45:26.

greechlt. It is very like lie will be different in result. That's the

:45:27.:45:31.

key thing that matters. You can get completely tariff-free trade and not

:45:32.:45:35.

have freedom of the movement? We've said specifically we're not having

:45:36.:45:41.

freedom of movement. We'll aim for a tariff-free deal. They won't give it

:45:42.:45:46.

to us? No, we'll have to negotiate it. You've admitted there is no

:45:47.:45:50.

policy difference between what the Conservatives are trying to get in

:45:51.:45:53.

these Brexit negotiations and what you're doing. It is difficult to

:45:54.:45:58.

tell, Jo, the Tories are so vague about how they'll conduct these

:45:59.:46:00.

negotiations I think there's a big difference.

:46:01.:46:10.

Compared to what Corbyn and his ministers say and what is in the

:46:11.:46:13.

shadow manifesto and he has said he does not be with everything in it so

:46:14.:46:16.

it is whether you can deliver. Theresa May from the beginning has

:46:17.:46:19.

been clear as Prime Minister that she wanted to do with Europe and I

:46:20.:46:22.

think we can get a good deal, and optimistically about free trade for

:46:23.:46:26.

this country. But he said about it is worse than no deal. Labour's plan

:46:27.:46:31.

for the immigration go up and Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott have said

:46:32.:46:34.

that themselves but she wants a deal which is good for us and our

:46:35.:46:36.

partners in Europe, working together to get a good deal because these are

:46:37.:46:45.

partners we want to trade with as was dreading globally so to suggest

:46:46.:46:48.

otherwise is misleading. And that we have to call it a day. Thank you for

:46:49.:46:51.

joining us, Brandon, and Theresa May has just about to begin her speech!

:46:52.:46:52.

Timing is everything. Now, in the run-up to election day

:46:53.:46:53.

we've been talking to each of the five largest parties

:46:54.:46:56.

in Northern Ireland. Today we're joined by

:46:57.:46:58.

Colum Eastwood, leader of the SDLP, the Social Democratic and Labour

:46:59.:47:00.

Party. Thank you for joining us. Three of

:47:01.:47:08.

the largest Northern Irish parties are opposed Brexit, which he painted

:47:09.:47:12.

as the major issue at this election. Why should people choose your party

:47:13.:47:16.

over the others? Of course, the SDLP is the most pro-European party in

:47:17.:47:20.

Ireland, probably on these islands. We always pro-Europe, whereas Sinn

:47:21.:47:26.

Fein, the other pro-European party now, were not pro-Europe until a

:47:27.:47:30.

couple of months ago, even just a year ago, before the referendum,

:47:31.:47:34.

they did not campaign against Brexit as part of the referendum but we are

:47:35.:47:39.

glad now that they are on our side. We were the party coming up with the

:47:40.:47:43.

answers around ideas or special status, using the Good Friday

:47:44.:47:46.

agreement to protect our interests, the customs union and the single

:47:47.:47:49.

market status for our businesses and people. So the SDLP have a very

:47:50.:47:53.

strong and proud record on Europe. The other thing is, we will actually

:47:54.:47:58.

turn up to Westminster and vote and speak and be counted when it comes

:47:59.:48:02.

to the debates on Brexit as we go through these negotiations. How many

:48:03.:48:05.

seats do you think you will get? What will be a successful result for

:48:06.:48:11.

you? Let's see, I don't do predictions, we have three seat at

:48:12.:48:13.

the minute and we would like to retain those three otherwise our

:48:14.:48:17.

main opponents in most of those constituencies are either the DUP

:48:18.:48:24.

who will be cheerleaders for Theresa May or Sinn Fein, who are abstention

:48:25.:48:28.

is the MPs and will not turn up at all. If Sinn Fein get their way, we

:48:29.:48:30.

will end up with a situation where there will not be an Irish

:48:31.:48:32.

nationalist representation in Westminster at all. That would be a

:48:33.:48:35.

very bad thing. You are calling for a referendum on Irish unity after

:48:36.:48:38.

Brexit. You say a border poll is no longer solely the project of Irish

:48:39.:48:43.

nationalism but a pro-European internationalism but isn't that

:48:44.:48:45.

something you want to be true rather than something with any real

:48:46.:48:50.

evidence behind it? Well, first what I said is that the border poll is

:48:51.:49:00.

part of the Good Friday agreement, we wrote it into the Good Friday

:49:01.:49:02.

agreement and we recognise it should not happen right now. We think what

:49:03.:49:05.

we have to do right now is first of all get the Northern Ireland

:49:06.:49:07.

institutions up and running, deal with the issues around Brexit and

:49:08.:49:10.

then look at the border poll after that has settled. But to allow work

:49:11.:49:13.

on the Brexit committee and our work with partners in Dublin and Europe,

:49:14.:49:15.

we have made sure that the European Union and the British government

:49:16.:49:18.

have now recognised that a united Ireland would automatically mean

:49:19.:49:22.

entering the European Union, that is unique situation because of the Good

:49:23.:49:25.

Friday agreement and the principles within. But it's not happening at

:49:26.:49:30.

the moment, you would accept? No, we know there's an enormous amount of

:49:31.:49:33.

work to do and we're not saying it should happen right away, we are

:49:34.:49:35.

saying it should happen in a positive and democratic way, to

:49:36.:49:40.

ensure that Unionism feels part of the positive, democratic

:49:41.:49:42.

conversation but we have a significant change in Northern

:49:43.:49:45.

Ireland which means because of the work of the SDLP, it is now about

:49:46.:49:49.

re-entering the European Union and I think that changes the debate from

:49:50.:49:53.

being a very narrow debate to a much broader debate that I think makes a

:49:54.:49:58.

border poll much more winnable for a nationalist perspective. Let me ask

:49:59.:50:01.

you about Jeremy Corbyn, your partner is a traditional sister

:50:02.:50:04.

party to the Labour Party so would you be happy to work with him in

:50:05.:50:09.

Parliament? Yes, we have already and with other parties. If the polls are

:50:10.:50:12.

right, we could end up having to work with a number of parties,

:50:13.:50:16.

including the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the green party and we would be very

:50:17.:50:19.

open to a progressive alliance to try to make sure we don't have a

:50:20.:50:23.

Tory government who don't seem to have any interest in protecting the

:50:24.:50:27.

interests of people in Ireland. They don't seem to have any interest in

:50:28.:50:30.

trying to avoid a hard Brexit which would mean a hard border for our

:50:31.:50:33.

people and businesses of this island. Of course, we will work with

:50:34.:50:37.

a progressive alliance to try to make sure we get a very different

:50:38.:50:39.

type of outcome from Brexit. Thank you for joining us.

:50:40.:50:41.

Now our guest of the day, Charlie Falconer, used to be

:50:42.:50:44.

a member of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet.

:50:45.:50:46.

Many were surprised he agreed to serve as Shadow Justice Secretary,

:50:47.:50:48.

considering he and Mr Corbyn come from very different places

:50:49.:50:51.

Then last June, after a year in post, he resigned -

:50:52.:50:59.

along with 18 of his cabinet colleagues, warning that Labour

:51:00.:51:01.

would "be left for dead" if it failed to unite

:51:02.:51:04.

So how does Tony Blair's former flatmate feel

:51:05.:51:07.

How do you feel? Have you changed your mind, have you had to review

:51:08.:51:15.

your thoughts and feelings about Jeremy Corbyn? He the leader of the

:51:16.:51:20.

Labour Party. I know that. We are committed other party to doing our

:51:21.:51:24.

best to win this election. But you have not changed your personal view

:51:25.:51:28.

about Jeremy Corbyn? He's performed incredibly well in the course of

:51:29.:51:30.

this general election campaign and the difference between him and

:51:31.:51:34.

Theresa May is marked, he is calm and clear and brave and I think is

:51:35.:51:41.

connecting particularly with young people and particularly with people

:51:42.:51:43.

who have not voted before. I mentioned it before on the programme

:51:44.:51:45.

and it was interesting to see the response he got as he arrived at the

:51:46.:51:49.

Cambridge debate yesterday. There are still big policy difference

:51:50.:51:51.

between you and him and his supporters, you supported the war in

:51:52.:51:55.

Iraq, a war he opposed and has said was illegal. Last week in a speech

:51:56.:51:59.

days after the Manchester attack, he suggested it contributed to the risk

:52:00.:52:04.

of terror attacks here in the UK. Do you accept that? I don't think the

:52:05.:52:09.

attacks in Manchester were caused by either the Iraq

:52:10.:52:21.

war or anything the British government did. So you disagree with

:52:22.:52:24.

Jeremy Corbyn? In relation to that, there would be a different emphasis,

:52:25.:52:27.

yes. Because he said the foreign policy of Tony Blair and other

:52:28.:52:29.

governments, like the one you are part of God is in some way linked to

:52:30.:52:32.

being a recruiting Sergeant for people who go on to commit attacks?

:52:33.:52:35.

He has said that and we would both be, Jeremy and I, completely united

:52:36.:52:39.

in saying it is an abomination, what happened in Manchester... Everyone

:52:40.:52:43.

agrees that. And we would also agree to other things, in so the security

:52:44.:52:48.

services, the police, army and intelligence services, need

:52:49.:52:50.

additional resources, they should be provided and we also agree that in

:52:51.:52:54.

relation to anti-terrorist measures in legislation, there should be

:52:55.:52:57.

appropriate judicial oversight. But you did not vote against the

:52:58.:53:01.

terrorist legislation, and he did, he voted against every single one

:53:02.:53:06.

and was the right to do that? I think he was wrong in relation to

:53:07.:53:10.

particular issues but he has made clear subsequently he is not against

:53:11.:53:20.

the state having those powers. But he's voted against all the

:53:21.:53:22.

legislation in the past? He said because he thinks there was

:53:23.:53:24.

inadequate judicial oversight. But he's voted against lots of

:53:25.:53:26.

organisations people would generally think are pretty dreadful being

:53:27.:53:30.

prescribed? Was he right? We disagreed at the time, but the

:53:31.:53:33.

question now is do I agree, it is not of interest to the electorate

:53:34.:53:37.

but what is my position in relation to the manifesto? I support it. Was

:53:38.:53:42.

it appropriate for Jeremy Corbyn to make that political speech so soon

:53:43.:53:47.

after the Manchester attack? It is right he should express his views in

:53:48.:53:51.

relation to it. He has got to be straightforward with the British

:53:52.:53:58.

public and they have to make a judgment about that. I don't think

:53:59.:54:00.

it is wrong on an issue of such grievous significance to the nation,

:54:01.:54:02.

namely the abominable attacks in Manchester, that the Leader of the

:54:03.:54:05.

Opposition in the middle of a campaign, should not set out his

:54:06.:54:09.

views. He was right to do so. Let's talk about the nuclear deterrent,

:54:10.:54:13.

Jeremy Corbyn's position is very clear but he has said if he becomes

:54:14.:54:17.

Prime Minister, his government will conduct a comprehensive defence

:54:18.:54:20.

review and that would also take into account the renewal of Trident

:54:21.:54:24.

nuclear deterrent, which of course, Mr Corbyn is very clear he does not

:54:25.:54:28.

support and therefore, could once again be in doubt. Are you

:54:29.:54:32.

comfortable with that? My understanding is that the review

:54:33.:54:34.

will not consider the question of whether or not Trident... That is

:54:35.:54:40.

not clear at all because it will include everything, that is what

:54:41.:54:44.

Jeremy Corbyn has said and he is the leader of the party. I am relying on

:54:45.:54:49.

what Nia Griffiths said. Using the shadow defence spokesman has a

:54:50.:54:53.

clearer view than the leader of the party? My understanding is it is

:54:54.:54:56.

accepted by the leader of the party that Trident is accepted by the

:54:57.:55:00.

Labour Party and that is what the manifesto says. In a recent

:55:01.:55:03.

interview, Michael Vick Andrew Neil asked on whether the defence review

:55:04.:55:10.

would include Trident? Jeremy Corbyn said it would look at the role of

:55:11.:55:13.

nuclear weapons as well as a reading which means it will be included.

:55:14.:55:17.

Well, we can debate the small print, my position is that I am in favour

:55:18.:55:22.

of retaining Trident. That is the position of the Labour Party in

:55:23.:55:26.

terms of policy. I understand Jeremy Corbyn access that so I don't think

:55:27.:55:29.

there is a difference between us, despite what you are saying. The

:55:30.:55:34.

public record suggest that during the Troubles, Jeremy Corbyn met

:55:35.:55:37.

members of the IRA, which I'm sure you know, on several occasions. He

:55:38.:55:40.

says he was working for peace rather than honouring the armed struggle

:55:41.:55:44.

but Seamus Mallon, one of the architects of the peace process,

:55:45.:55:47.

said he never heard anyone mention Corbyn in the peace process and that

:55:48.:55:50.

he clearly took the side of the IRA which was incompatible with working

:55:51.:55:56.

for peace. In your mind, because you know Jeremy Corbyn and have known

:55:57.:55:59.

him for a long time, did he play a role in the peace process? I don't

:56:00.:56:03.

know in relation to any of that. I'm absolutely sure that Jeremy wanted

:56:04.:56:08.

peace so I can't comment on the detail. Let's look at some of the

:56:09.:56:11.

domestic policy commie called the idea of bringing the national grid

:56:12.:56:14.

into public ownership going too far, saying that it would involve vast

:56:15.:56:17.

expenditure when there are so many other things we should be spending

:56:18.:56:20.

money on. You say you are supporting the Labour manifesto so you have

:56:21.:56:25.

changed your mind? I support the thrust of the manifesto, the precise

:56:26.:56:29.

detail of whether or not... This is not detail, this is a big policy,

:56:30.:56:36.

renationalising utilities. And for example, renationalising the

:56:37.:56:39.

railways, I would be strongly in favour of that. Are you in favour of

:56:40.:56:43.

public ownership of the national grid? I think it is something for

:56:44.:56:47.

much later, not necessarily straightaway. All the polling

:56:48.:56:50.

companies have Labour on a high share of the vote than they scored

:56:51.:56:54.

at the 2015 general election so despite the warnings from you and

:56:55.:56:56.

others in the party, it suggests Jeremy Corbyn is more popular with

:56:57.:57:01.

the public than Ed Miliband, does that surprise you? I think the

:57:02.:57:10.

public have gone quite a long journey and what they are thinking

:57:11.:57:13.

at the moment is that it is a choice between the Tories and Labour, and

:57:14.:57:15.

what life would be like. People remember how bad things have been in

:57:16.:57:18.

the 1980s under the Tories and this government has been in power

:57:19.:57:20.

effectively for seven years and they are absolutely fed up with the

:57:21.:57:23.

continuation of unnecessary austerity. Does it surprise you that

:57:24.:57:27.

Jeremy Corbyn could poll better in terms of national vote share than Ed

:57:28.:57:32.

Miliband? No it doesn't because the choice as it emerged in this

:57:33.:57:35.

election was not ultimately about Brexit because I think people think

:57:36.:57:39.

we have made our decision as a country about that, the choice is

:57:40.:57:43.

between Theresa May leading the Tory party and Jeremy Corbyn leading the

:57:44.:57:47.

Labour Party and I think the public are now making up their mind which

:57:48.:57:51.

of the two they want and the other interesting thing that has happened

:57:52.:57:54.

in the election is the smaller parties have been pushed to the

:57:55.:57:57.

side. It is a big choice. Quickly because we're coming up, tuition

:57:58.:58:02.

fees, the manifesto commitment, ?11 billion to abolish them and you are

:58:03.:58:05.

part of the government that introduced it, is it the right

:58:06.:58:16.

policy to abolish them? You need to to see the effect on the public

:58:17.:58:18.

finances. That has been done. Looking at the effect on the public

:58:19.:58:21.

finances, it is a possible policy. I'm not opposed to it as part of the

:58:22.:58:23.

overall package. Now, as part of the BBC's general

:58:24.:58:23.

election coverage, our very own Andrew is talking to the main party

:58:24.:58:26.

leaders in in-depth interviews. Tonight, it's the turn

:58:27.:58:28.

of the Liberal Democrat leader. with Tim Farron

:58:29.:58:31.

tonight at 7pm on BBC One. That's all for today.

:58:32.:58:34.

Thanks to our guests. Particularly to Charlie Falconer for

:58:35.:58:43.

being the guest of the day. You said there had been an earthquake in the

:58:44.:58:46.

Labour Party when Mr Corbyn was elected, do you think it marked the

:58:47.:58:49.

end of the Blairite Iraq? It certainly did! -- Blairite era.

:58:50.:58:56.

And Andrew will also be back again tonight with This Week on BBC One

:58:57.:58:59.

As voters prepare to go to the polls

:59:00.:59:04.

the Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron joins me

:59:05.:59:12.

Jo Coburn is joined by Labour peer Charlie Falconer for the whole show. They look at last Wednesday's BBC election debate.

Jo also takes a look at what the SDLP has to offer in Northern Ireland, and there is a round-up of all the other campaign news.


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