Browse content similar to 01/06/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Her political rivals from the main parties lined up | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
to criticise her for not taking part in the seven-way debate, | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
with Amber Rudd speaking for the Conservative Party. | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
As campaigning for the election enters its final week, | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
Theresa May is about to give a speech setting out her vision | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
After last night's debate, it's also Brexit day for Jeremy Corbyn, | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
as he gives a speech outlining Labour's views later today. | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
We ask Tony Blair's former flatmate, Lord Falconer, how he feels | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
And the moodbox continues its travels around the country. | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
Today, Ellie has wheeled it to the Lincolnshire town of Skegness. | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Have you decided who you're going to vote for yet? | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Because they are all as bad as one another. | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
And they make promises and it doesn't come off. | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
And with us for the whole of the programme today, | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
is the Labour peer and former Lord Chancellor, Charlie Falconer. | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
First though, the BBC election debate. | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
Senior politicians from the seven main political parties took to | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
Theresa May's rivals accused her of lacking "guts" for not attending, | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
with Labour's Jeremy Corbyn deciding late on that he would take part. | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
Here's Adam with the highlights of the debate. | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
You could be watching Britain's Got Talent on the other side. | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
But on this stage, it's all about which politician has talent. | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
The debate's been electrified before it's even started by the last minute | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
decision by Jeremy Corbyn to come and stand at this podium. | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
The Conservatives sent the Home Secretary, | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
who may have felt at times it was six against one. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
They are promising a dementia tax, an end to the winter fuel payment | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
I think those people deserve to know by how much. | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
Why is Britain the second biggest arms dealer in the world? | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Why are we selling to 22 of the 30 countries | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
on the Government's own human rights watchlist? | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
Amber Rudd seems so confident this is a country at ease with itself, | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
Have you seen people sleeping around our stations? | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
So, Amber Rudd cast herself in the role of the grown-up on stage. | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
I just have to take on some of the Jeremy Corbyn's | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
I mean, he has a money tree wishlist in his manifesto. | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
It's very easy to think about how you spend money. | :03:26. | :03:27. | |
It is much harder to think about how you raise money. | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
It's as if he thinks it is some sort of game, | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
a game of monopoly perhaps, where you ask the banker for the red | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
money to buy the electrics, the green money to buy the railways | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
and the yellow money to buy the gasworks. | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
In the spin room, we watched the inevitable row about who'd | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
negotiate the best Brexit, which turned into an argument | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
A city the size of Hull came to this country never. | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
That will be a Birmingham over a five-year period. | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
We do it by having an Australian points-based system. | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
If you've got the skills that this country needs, yes, | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Ukip just claimed people voted to leave the European Union and, | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
in so doing, they also voted to curb immigration. | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
I don't think we can read that into the result. | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
Although quite a lot of the time, it just sounded like this... | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
But, was the real star of the show the woman who wasn't there? | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
So you've heard the squabbling and discord | :04:38. | :04:38. | |
You've seen the coalition of chaos in action. | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
But in the quiet of the polling booth, you have a clear choice. | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
A vote for anyone other than Theresa May is a vote for | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
Leadership is about understanding the people you represent. | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
Is about not being so high and mighty you can't take advice. | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
It is also about bringing people with you. | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
It is also about ensuring your responsibilities to protect | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
the safety and security of everybody in this country and to lead | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
a Government that cares for everybody in the country. | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
The Prime Minister is not here tonight. | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
In fact, Bake Off is on BBC Two next. | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
You are not worth Theresa May's time. | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
Err, no time to watch Bake Off when there's post-match | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
Be honest, would you rather be at home watching Bake Off? | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
For all the people talking over themselves, and there | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
was a lot of that tonight, my own view is the moderator should | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
have had a switch that could switch their mics off. | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
There's David Davis with his finger in his ear. | :06:00. | :06:01. | |
Do you think it was all too much for him? | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
Well, backstage, after 90 minutes of shouting and all their spinning, | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
But has it changed how anyone will vote? | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
Joining us in the studio is the Home Office Minister Brandon Lewis. | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
Welcome to the programme. Why didn't Theresa May take part? I think | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
actually, what we saw, the clip you showed, highlighted, she made the | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
right decision. While everyone's shouting over each other she's | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
getting on with the job. Talking to people across the country. Not | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
running scared? No. She's been taking questions from the press far | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
more than Jeremy Corbyn and depates about PMQs every week. She made the | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
right decision as she was concerned. Not part of this seven- way | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
squabble? I think she made a cowardly and arrogant decision. To | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
make a snap election decision and not debate directly with the other | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
party leaders treats the people with contempt. I saw a film about her | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
meeting the electorate. She was outside a hang are. Tight in, people | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
around her. The camera pulled away. There were about 20 people. It was a | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
completely staged event. Her excuse for not doing the debate is she's | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
meeting the electorate. But it is in such controlled circumstances. All | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
politicians meet them in staged managed way. Jeremy Corbyn decided | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
he was take part and was there defending Labour's policies? | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
Outlining some of the fantasy stuff. Not able to... What is the fantasy | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
stuff? With nationalisation, they haven't outlined how much it will | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
cost, how they'll pay for it. When they talk about security, he has | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
voted against anti-terror laws for 35 years. The Shadow Home Secretary | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
wants to disband MI5. They cannot look after the security of our | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
country coming from that position. In terms of being brave standing in | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
a debate like this with rivals from other parties, did he at least put | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
his money where his mouth is? Theresa May was at the debate on | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
Monday night. She's... That wasn't a debate with with other politicians. | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
It a discussion with the public. What about discussions with other | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
party leaders? Why not She faced Jeremy Corbyn in PMQs week in, week | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
out. The country's watching the Prime Minister. She had the time to | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
come to the debate at Sky. Why not directly with Jeremy? The chaos we | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
saw last night highlights why she did the right thing. She has been | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
debating with Jeremy Corbyn at p. MQs week in, week out. She's | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
focussed talking to people about what she can do for this country. | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Tony Blair never did a debate. This was very much before the pre-debate | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
times. It is a legitimate point to raise. We're talking about now | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
though. Let's talk about the magic money tree. Amber Rudd's phrase of | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
the evening. I heard it several times. Talking about Labour and how | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
they are going to fund their manifesto promises that amount to | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
?48 billion. She has a point? We've made a deliberate decision, partly | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
by borrowing and increasing taxes on the top 5%, we'll spend more money. | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
What Brandon describes as our fantasy politics, we've made a clear | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
decision to abandon austerity. The Tories have decided to keep going. | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
That's the choice for the country. The institute of fiscal did youedies | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
say they doubt very much the tax receipts will come in to fund that | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
?48 billion. You will tax more, the 5%. You'll spend more but you | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
haven't costed it in terms of guaranteeing those tax receipts. | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
Nobody could guarantee it. The question is what sort of return | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
would you get from the tax increases and our estimate is the best. But, | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
there are risks in relace to it. I accept that. In terms of the magic | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
money tree, did you get a feeling from the debate people watching and | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
taking part, if you look at the progressive alliance, people are fed | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
up with us a starity? We have to try to live within our means. We've been | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
up front about the fact we have to do it. You haven't paid off the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
deficit. Debt is still rising. The deficit is still ?52 billion for the | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
year ending March this year. In a way, austerity hasn't done what it | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
was supposed to do. If I can finish. That highlights the key point. We | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
got that deficit Labour left us with. ?151 billion down to ?51 | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
billion. That was seven years ago That's how bad it is. Labour haven't | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
costed this out. They've not outlined what nationalisation would | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
cost. How of they're going to use this Corporation Tax change they've | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
spent 12 times over. Corporation Tax take is going up. They have figures. | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
You may not like them. Where are your figures? It is easy to get them | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
wrong if you don't have them on social care and how many pensioners | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
will lose the winter fuel allowance. We've outlined our commitments. We | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
are delivering our priorities in the budget and manfess toe. It is using | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
the money the country's got rather than pretending to do things we | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
haven't the money for. The The figures are not there. What you are | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
disguising, Brandon, is what the Tories will do is cut and cut as | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
they said they would in the March 2017 budget. The problem you had | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
with the social care thing, it was very indicative of the sorts of cuts | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
that are coming. Take away people's... It is no different to | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
what it is now. It is different to what's now. Only in terms of Theresa | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
May saying she'll race the floor. ? Terms of people paying for social | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
care they do that now. They didn't have to pay for care in their homes, | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
now they do. We saw a lot of noisy support for Jeremy Corbyn outside | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
and from the audience last night. Is that enthusiasm going to transfer to | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
the quiet of the polling booth? I have no idea what will happen. All I | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
can tell you is two things. We went into this election on the basis it | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
was about Brexit. We're coming out of it and it's about what Britain's | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
going to be like. The British people or some of them, are very, very | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
concerned we are returning to Thatcher. The crowd which greeted | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
Jeremy Corbyn in Cambridge, each side of the street was lined with | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
people. I don't know whether they will vote. A lot are very young, if | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
that group of people does go the ballot box, I think we're in for | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
some surprises. How do you explain the change in the polls. The 24 | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
point lead the Tories had which some polls suggest has been now slashed | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
to just 3 points. There are a whole range ofs poles out there. The only | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
pole that matters is June 8th. What people will be doing on June 8th. I | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
hope, what I'm getting when I talk to people on the doorstep, is make a | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
decision about who they want as Prime Minister. Someone who can | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
stand up for difficult things, say this is an issue which needs to be | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
dealt with. We have a plan which lab can't. Someone to get the right deal | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
for this country as we leave the EU. Something Jeremy didn't want to | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
touch on. We talked briefly about some of the noisy support for Jeremy | :13:47. | :13:48. | |
Corbyn outside. This Well, this morning, | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said he thought there | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
was a left-wing bias. It was a yammering | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
cacophony of views. Even by the BBC's own standards, | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
I think you would agree, that audience was notably | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
to the left of many And, you had Plaid Cymru and | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
the SNP and Liberal Democrats Of course, there was a certain sort | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
of echo chamber for left-wing views. Joining us from our Exeter | :14:12. | :14:20. | |
studio is Andrew Hawkins from the polling company ComRes, | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
who selected the audience. Andrew, what do you say to Boris | :14:24. | :14:36. | |
Johnson's complaints that was a notably left-wing audience? Well, I | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
mean, if you have seven party representatives and five of those | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
represent parties to the left and only two to the right, then the | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
phrase he used, yammering cock off if I, the reality was the audience | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
was scrupulously put together and selected and verified. I think a | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
politician's clapometer is probably not the best way to judge how | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
representative it is of the voting public. It's actually to open the | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
bonnet, as it were. To understand how that audience was put together. | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
It's like constructing a giant 3D jigsaw. You have to look at how | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
representative, making sure it is of the 2015 result. Making sure it is | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
representative of the current voting intention. Make sure it is | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
representative of people who voted remain and leave and make sure it is | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
demographically representative as well. It was. What did you think | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
when you watched the debate? Did you get any sense despite having gone | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
through those hoops and hurdles, it felt somehow one-sided or more | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
towards one side than the other? Yeah. Certainly, there's no question | :15:56. | :16:05. | |
in my mind that Amber Rudd and, to an extent, Paul Nuttall were up | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
against a mock vocal crowd. That's for sure. But, actually, when you | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
watch what the audience were doing, half the audience were clapping at | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
those moments and half weren't. You don't hear the ones who are not | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
clapping. Only the ones who do. So, actually, yeah, it's true, it was | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
noisy. I can understand why it came across like that. But, when you look | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
at what people or how people are behaving, it wasn't the case. In the | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
end, I presume whatever looks good on paper, the reality can somehow | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
appear quite different? You can, of course, get a dynamic where people | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
on one end of the spectrum are a reluctant to make as much noise as | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
people on the other end of the spectrum. There may have been a bit | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
of that last night as well. Thank you. | :16:56. | :16:57. | |
Polly Toynbee from The Guardian and Seb Payne from the Financial Times. | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
They're outside enjoying the sunshine. | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Seb Payne, the Financial Times has come out in support of Theresa May | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
in this election albeit rather grudgingly. Why? We looked at the | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
options on offer and we did not really like any of them. Our view is | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
pro-market and free trade and capitalism. It really was almost an | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
ugly baby contest for us to see which one we felt would be the best | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
thing. We live in a democracy and this election is about choosing who | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
we want to be the next Prime Minister and we consider Jeremy | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
Corbyn's programme would be quite dangerous for the country | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
economically, it would not see growth and prosperity particularly | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
for our readers in the City of London and therefore, Theresa May is | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
probably the best person to get us through the Brexit deal. We said she | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
is the safer bet, not option, it is a bet because we think Brexit is a | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
bet and we will see how it turns out. Was the Prime Minister wrong to | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
skip the debate last night Polly Toynbee? Will it have major | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
consequences or does it not really matter? I'm not sure about major | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
consequences but the one thing people will take from it is that she | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
was there and ran away but Jeremy Corbyn was there and that was quite | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
important, I think. They may take away from it that Amber Rudd did | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
rather better than she would have done and she came out of it | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
reasonably well. The shy Tories in the audience did not back her up | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
very much. They were there but they were awfully shy. She was run out on | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
her own. But she made a reasonable fist of it. But as ever, what | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
surprises people when they see Jeremy Corbyn is that he is so much | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
better than they thought he would be. He has the great advantage of | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
having started the campaign with very low expectations and he has | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
well exceeded them. Going back to the issue of Brexit because | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
certainly both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have got speeches on | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
that today. Seb Payne, do you think it has come a little -- too little | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
and a little too late? This is part of the reset that the Conservatives | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
are trying to do now, focusing on Brexit because on any other topics, | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
they are an slightly shaky ground, like the manifesto, spending more | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
social care. Labour has been able to score some points there whereas an | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
Brexit, which is what the election was supposed to be about four | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
Theresa May, she's focusing on being the best person to get the Brexit | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
deal and having been around the country, I think voters get the | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
sense. When you ask do you want sitting opposite Michel Barnier, | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, people feel | :19:31. | :19:32. | |
Theresa May is probably the best person so if they focused on that | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
message and hammer it again and again, that is the place can | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
probably the get the best hay from but at this stage, it might be a bit | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
too late. Will it change any votes now, Polly, on the issue of Brexit? | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
If you drill down on what both parties are saying in the manifesto | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
is an Brexit, there is not much to choose between them. It is a rising | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
Brexit has not played bigger and it has certainly surprise the Lib Dems | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
who thought they were going to get a big surge on the back of this and I | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
was surprised and in some ways have been disappointed as well. When | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
people look at what Theresa May has done so far in her approach is to | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
Europe, it has been horrendous and aggressive. She has behaved as if | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
they were the enemy. She talks in kind of military terms. There's no | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
doubt that all that Labour's team would be infinitely better, more | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
emollient, treat them as friends and partners and how are we going to get | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
through this as best we can, both sides together? Whereas Theresa May | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
and her team, as written on her bus, are going at it like a bull in a | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
china shop. I think Labour has, Europe has not been particularly | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
Brett Lee towards us, Angela Merkel said this week we can't rely | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
Britain's only does not matter how friendly you are towards Europe, | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
they will be tough with us so they will be tough on both sides. It | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
depends what you mean by top. What you what is a deal that works well | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
for Europe, we don't want as Europe fall apart, even Theresa May says | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
she is very much does not want to do damage to Europe and I don't think | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
they want to do damage to us. If we get ourselves into a stupid | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
confrontation with people like Boris and David Davis and Liam Fox, and | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
now Theresa May herself as well, saying extraordinarily aggressive | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
things, particularly during the election, which they will regret | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
what they have to sit around a table with 27 other countries, a lot of | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
who will be fuming at the muddy being said in the election campaign. | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
But will they just think it is an election campaign, Seb Payne, that | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
it's Theresa May facing the electorate even if it hasn't all | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
been about Brexit up until now? Do you get a sense from other European | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
leaders about how they view things like the U-turn on social care? Will | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
they see that as an opportunity for them in negotiations? It will | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
certainly raise some eyebrows because the whole image that has | :21:43. | :21:52. | |
come from Theresa May, from the UK and British press, is of a strong | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
and stable leader and a lot of what we have seen in this campaign, as | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
people have said, is a bit more weak and wobbly. It will certainly raise | :21:59. | :22:00. | |
eyebrows about what will happen when they sit down and begin the | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
negotiations which, don't forget, will happen just two weeks after the | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
election is over. But ultimately at the end of the day, Europe is not | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
really bothered who it sits with, it just wants to get on with it and | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
start the article 15 process and so much of the actual debating will be | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
done behind closed doors, a lot of bargaining and horse trading, that | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
we won't actually see. And they do know ultimately, Theresa May needs | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
to act tough and she is trying to appeal to the 52% that backed Brexit | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
in the referendum. I don't think it matters too much for the original | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
outcome. I think you are completely wrong about that, I think the result | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
of this election is going to very much affect what Europe thinks of | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
the UK. If Labour won the election, then the profound sense in Europe | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
would be that the demotic talk of Mrs May, those mad allegations that | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
European officials and politicians were trying to interfere in the | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
election, was being repudiated by the British people. The view that | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
they see Britain as one amorphous mass is completely wrong. Finally | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
come on the magic money tree, Polly Toynbee, we would all like one of | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
course but if that line going to be pushed, I presume very hard by the | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
Conservatives, and that Labour's policies, which the IFS are not | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
wildly up to mystic about? They had said the same about the Tory | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
manifesto which has very little costings in it at all. I don't think | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
that we might Labour has suggested spending any more than the Tories | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
are going to be spending on tax cuts, corporation tax, inheritance | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
tax, taxes that benefit business and the better off. Enormously | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
extravagant tax cuts that the country certainly cannot afford at a | :23:37. | :23:38. | |
time when our public services are falling apart and I think that is | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
going to be the tension. Does she really mean austerity? No, she means | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
giving away money to some people while taking yet more away from | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
everybody's public services. Polly Toynbee and Seb Payne, thank you. | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
Now, the Daily Politics moodbox is on tour during the election | :23:55. | :23:56. | |
campaign, and today Ellie is in the Lincolnshire town of Skegness. | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
You have got the weather for it! On a beach, I can see. | :24:01. | :24:12. | |
They say it is bracing in Skegness but actually, it is just lovely and | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
warm and very nice. It has been well documented that Skegness and Boston | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
voted decidedly for Brexit in last year's EU referendum, 75% voted to | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
Leave which is one of the recent Ukip have got their eyes on this | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
seat at the coming general election. Of course, there is one week to go | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
before we vote, when people in this town and around the country make | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
that big decision but have people made the decision? There's a week to | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
go, is there any point in any of the politicians are still campaigning? | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
That is what we are asking today. Our people decided or undecided? | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
Have you decided who you'll vote for in the election? | :24:53. | :25:03. | |
What, what made you make your decision? | :25:04. | :25:15. | |
I just decided that it's better to keep what we have at the moment. | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
Because they're all as bad as one another. | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
They make promises and it doesn't come off. | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
He hasn't even decided if he's going to make a decision! | :25:26. | :25:34. | |
We want to do what's best for the disabled. | :25:35. | :25:48. | |
We're not sure which party yet is going to do that. | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
Because of the weak leadership of the Labour Party, | :25:51. | :26:00. | |
I've decided to vote for Theresa May for the first time ever | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
which is really a break with family tradition. | :26:04. | :26:05. | |
Trying to do what's best for the country | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
and I think Jeremy Corbyn isn't best for this country. | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
I think Theresa May's just wanting it for herself and what she wants | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
I don't think she's taken anybody else into consideration. | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
There's been too much on the news for me to take it in. | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
Otherwise I would decide, if I could understand it a bit more. | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
Just listening to the policies of parties. | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
Forget the fighting between the politicians, | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
it's politics which is what's important. | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
Doesn't affect me or my wages or my house or anything. | :26:44. | :26:54. | |
Do you really not think it does? No. | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
The good people of Skegness and those on holiday here | :26:57. | :27:19. | |
The trouble is, I can't decide whether it's the decideds | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
or undecideds who've won our moodbox today. | :27:25. | :27:26. | |
The one thing I have decided is I need an ice cream! | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
It's a tough job, but someone has got to do it, what a glorious day! | :27:32. | :27:49. | |
Throughout this election, we've been speaking to the smaller parties also | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
standing for election and today it's the turn of the SDP, | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
The SDP was founded in March 1981 by four | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
former Labour members - dubbed the Gang Of Four. | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
The party say they would actively | :28:01. | :28:01. | |
campaign for a fair, controlled and harmonious Brexit | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
process in the best interests of the British people and with due | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
consideration to our EU friends and neighbours. | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
They would offer free school breakfast and lunch | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
Remove all tax from those earning the minimum wage. | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
Remove all tax from those They would introduce annual | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
referendums to coincide with May elections to cover issues such | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
as the death penalty, hunting and euthanasia. | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
And they would ensure that all train operators provide high quality free | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
Wi-Fi on routes that exceed 30 minutes. | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
And we're joined by the SDP's | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
Thank you for joining us. The party survived, I thought it had gone out | :28:36. | :28:46. | |
of existence! It's been going for 27 years. It has not stopped. As it | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
almost faded into nonexistence and come back? I think there's been a | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
bit of a resurgence over the past few months. Few months? Absolutely, | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
as the previous... I mean, politics has really changed, hasn't it? | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
You've got all of the different parties changing their direction, | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
changing their position, Labour on the far left now and the Tories | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
going far right and the Lib Dems going far-fetched. There's a big gap | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
in the middle. Right, except you have also changed your mind because | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
last year you were the Parliamentary candidate for Ukip in the Sheffield | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
Brightside by-election and he finished second, so when did you | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
switch parties? A few months ago, there two parties that are boys | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
campaign for Brexit, the SDP were campaigning for Brexit... Which is a | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
complete change from its early days. For over 20 years, they have been | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
Eurosceptic, they campaign to withdraw and not join the European | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
single currency, they campaign... Mike Baird I would not associated | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
with Roy Jenkins, a bit of a shift. A total shift but does that mean you | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
are closer with Ukip as a result of your scepticism in the SDP? Totally | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
not, the SDP has always stood for direct democracy and proportional | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
representation, democracy meaning being ruled by the electorate, not | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
the EU, all the way through, since the Lisbon Treaty, the Maastricht | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
Treaty, the SDP has campaigned for withdrawal from the European Union. | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
But as recently as January, in terms of your party allegiance, you | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
tweeted Brexit is going to vote in the House of Commons, and if you | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
want Brexit, vote Ukip to make your voice heard. So why should anyone | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
believe you have genuinely switched allegiance? All parties have changed | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
their position and if you are a person of integrity, you don't just | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
follow the party line. The Labour Party has shifted and a lot of the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
politicians have shifted with the party rather than their own beliefs. | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
The Conservatives, the same. My view has always been all along, | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
democracy, leave the European Union and now obviously as the Ukip party | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
line has shifted, mine has not. I'm not just going to follow that party. | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
What attracted you to the failure that has been the SDP? You can argue | :30:57. | :31:04. | |
they influenced the Labour Party. Changed their direction. Also | :31:05. | :31:06. | |
changed the direction the Conservative Party is going in. In | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
that way, how do you measure success? In power or influence | :31:11. | :31:19. | |
flewence. The SDP has opportunity to exert influence. If If you've moved | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
from Ukip to SDP? Who had confidence in Lord Owen? He blue up the SDP. Is | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
it filled with people like you who are constantly changing our | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
position. People think you're mad. Maybe this do. If you look at andy | :31:39. | :31:46. | |
Taylor, a member since 1982, and through to 2017 for the SDP? It has | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
continued, relentless, quietly in the background trying to work with | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
vote Leaf and others to achieve its goal. You're standing a good slate | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
of cand says in Sheffield and that's it? In Glasgow as Ant well. We're | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
starting slowly but surely. June 9th will be a very different state of | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
politician. Either Jeremy Corbyn's party will be victorious, unlikely. | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
What are the Labour moderates going to do? Form their own party? Nobody | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
knows what will happen next. What the last two years has taught us is | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
you just expect the unexpected. Can I tell you one thing for certain. | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
The one thing that will not happen is people will move to the SDP Will | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
you have Labour moderates going over to the other party? No, we are not. | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
You can't speak. If you ask Labour both people in the parliamentary | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
Labour Party and the wider activists, are they united behind a | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
manifesto that says an end to austerity, retains Trident... Are | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
they united behind Jeremy Corbyn, that's the problem? There have been | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
issues about Jeremy Corbyn. Ultimately what happens in the | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
general election and what our basic policy is will determine... No be | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
predict what had happen next or the attitudes of politicians. No-one | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
will predict what party you'll be in next. Thank you for coming in. | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
So what else has been going on in the campaign? | :33:23. | :33:24. | |
It was sunny. It might have gone behind a cloud. Tip for viewers. If | :33:25. | :33:34. | |
you are out on the campaign trail and you happen to spot a celebrity, | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
well, you need to have your selfie technique nailed. Like this. There | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
you go. We've got it pretty good, Jo, though you don't look too happy | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
to be in my selfie. Sorry! | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
Selfie's take practice. One candidate has been lending a hand | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
with that today. Another thought for you. Back when I was 16, I got up to | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
many things. But voting, of course, wasn't one of them. Whether to lower | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
the legal voting age is a subject that came up for discussion at a BBC | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
locality radio event. We start today's round-up with a question | :34:13. | :34:14. | |
from a student in Sheffield. There may have been a few blushes | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
on the BBC Sheffield election debate panel when the President | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
of the local college Student Union, So, why can't we just | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
get votes at 16? At 16 you're old enough | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
to marry your MP, have sex with your MP and go to war and fight | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
for your MP and die for your MP, The Labour, the Lib Dems | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
and the Green Party all support For today only, you can pick up | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
a copy of the left-wing socialist newspaper, | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
The Morning Star, for free. Copies of the paper's | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
Election Special are being given away in shops instead | :34:49. | :34:50. | |
of at the usual prize of ?1. And, mastering the art | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
of selfies with Boris Johnson. Now, where's that screen | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
flip button thing? It's out of focus and you're | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
barely in frame but post The ghost train at Thorpe Park just | :35:02. | :35:16. | |
got even more terrifying. These frightening characters will | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
chase thrillseekers on the ride, Ukip's David Kurten's been outlining | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
plans for education this morning. We need to challenge the viewpoint | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
that says academic schools are up here and everything else is down | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
there and selection is bad. Saying some children should be | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
released from school age 14 And Jeremy Corbyn's following in | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
the footsteps of Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber and Rihanna by gracing | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
the cover the NME. Now, as we've been speaking, | :35:55. | :36:03. | |
Theresa May has been setting out her vision of Brexit as a "great | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
national mission" that offers the promise of | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
transforming this country. Later today, Jeremy Corbyn will also | :36:14. | :36:14. | |
deliver a speech on Brexit, giving Labour's view | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
of the opportunities Negotiations with Brussels are set | :36:18. | :36:19. | |
to formally begin 11 days after the election, | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
so where exactly do the parties stand regarding this | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
country's future relationship The Conservatives intend | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
to leave the single market And seek a "deep and | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
special partnership" The free movement of people | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
from the EU would end. A Great Repeal Bill would | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
incorporate EU law into UK law. Labour says it would scrap | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
the current Brexit white paper. And that its negotiations | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
would emphasise securing a tariff-free relationship | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
with the single market The party says free movement | :36:55. | :36:56. | |
will end after Brexit and they'd And would immediately guarantee | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
the rights of all EU The Liberal Democrats want to stay | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
members of the single And they want a referendum | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
on the final deal. The SNP, likewise, want | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
to protect Scotland's place And they are demanding a place | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
for the Scottish Government Ukip, meanwhile, want to ensure | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
a clean break with the single market, the customs union | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
and the ECJ. And they insist there should be no | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
Brexit divorce bill, or future contributions | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
to the EU budget. Let's hear what the Prime | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
Minister has been saying We had hoped to hear from Theresa | :37:43. | :37:51. | |
May's speech but she's running a late. Brandon Lewis joins us. What | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
does the great national exit mean in terms of hard policies? It is | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
recognising there is an opportunity here. We've made a decision as a | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
country, which we've been clear we'll deliver on. We want to take | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
this opportunity to be a more global, outward looking country to | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
do trade deals around the world and with our European partners. To do | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
something people on doorsteps yesterday when I was out are clear | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
about. They want to see the parties very clearly dealing with | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
immigration. Something the Labour Party isn't doing. How does that | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
translate into policies. I would argue we don't know much more than | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
we did several months ago in terms of what the offer is from the | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
Conservatives or Labour in those terms. What does it mean in hard | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
policy terms? We do know more. I think first of all, from the Labour | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
point of view, I was debating with Diane Abbott earlier. ... Labour's | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
said in their manifesto they want an end to freedom of movement. I will | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
tackle Charlie Fawke on on what that means. A clear point for us is | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
immigration should be at sustainable levels. Tens of thousands. We need | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
to negotiate good trade deals with countries around the world. Attract | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
the by the and best to come here to continue to grow our economy. I | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
still don't know how you'll achieve those things through policy. Since | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
you brought up immigration, the Labour manifesto says it will be an | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
end to free movement. How many people on a net migration basis | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
should be coming here year-on-year? I don't think that's possible to | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
say. The Prime Minister would agree with that. You should stop people | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
being able to come unless they have a job and the job has got to be | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
something that somebody in the UK can't do. You'll end all unskilled | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
labour coming from the EU? In relation to unskilled labour, there | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
will be significant areas in the British economy where you will need | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
unskilled labour. The focus in immigration terms, has to be what | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
promotes the UK economy. When I say what promotes the UK economy, I moo | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
entwo things. You shouldn't be taking jobs away from the UK where | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
there are people who want those jobs. Secondly, have you to identify | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
where there are bits of industry, bits of economic activity, where if | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
you did take away the immigration, not just from the European Union but | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
elsewhere, that would damage the economy. What does that mean in | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
terms of farming and agriculture. Already they're expressing fears | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
they won't be able to get the seasonal workers they need. Would | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
you be happy to see unskilled working coming to work in that | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
industry? I don't know what the numbers are. If you needed unskilled | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
workers in agriculture and couldn't provide that from our own | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
population, you would need to allow that to happen. We'd still have | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
unskilled workers coming from the EU I believe we will in certain areas. | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
If terms of the numbers of tens of thousands, it hasn't been hit | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
before. Now you haven't put a timescale on when you will reach | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
that. Do you need to put a timescale on it? We are clear we want to do | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
something positive to the economy over the course of the next | :41:10. | :41:11. | |
Parliament. You have a target. Criticised Labour for not having a | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
target. You haven't said when you'd deliver it? . We did, over the | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
course of the next Parliament. By 2020? The draft figures that came | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
out last week for the last year show the policies taken forward by | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
Theresa May in part when she was Home Secretary as well as Prime | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
Minister are working. We've seen an 85,000 fall in the last year alone. | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
This is building on the work we've done, change how social housing is | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
allowed and upskilling people here to take on these jobs. How long will | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
that take. You talk about this upskilling, how long will that take? | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
The upskilling of the British population when you'll remove EU | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
immigrants? This is a holistic approach. We are not just | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
controlling our borders but also having that industrial strategy. We | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
bring in apprenticeships. How long will it take? The benefit we're | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
already seeing, more and more people getting into work. Two million | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
people into the economy... I'm talking about reduction in | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
immigration. We've seen 8 a,000 fall in the last year alone. The British | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
people want to see a Government that is clearly looking to deal with this | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
issue. That's... What is extraordinary is they slay they'll | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
bring it down to 10,000 within five years. Mrs May's been the Home | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
Secretary for six years and has failed repeatedly year after year. | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
Why not do something in relation to non-EU immigration which is well | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
over 100,000 net at the moment? As you know full well, Charlie, you | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
were overtalking me earlier on, this is a Home Secretary who's you is | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
down 900 bogus colleges offer the nine years. Has it brought numbers | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
down? Yes, it is. If you look at the figures just last week aLen, it is | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
down 85,000 just last year alone because of the work done over the | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
last few years that is now flowing through. There is always more to do. | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
We cant to tackle this challenge. It is not clear in the Labour | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
manifesto. Developing and implementing fair immigration rules. | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
No-one can disagree with that. Depends what you mean by clear. Has | :43:24. | :43:32. | |
Labour got a clear, identifiable stance on immigration? You stop | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
people coming from the E. Without any proper basis. You said you would | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
be prepared to have seasonal workers coming in. They are unskilled. | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
Aagree. That is a basis. What about other sectors? Equal numbers coming | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
in on retail. Hospitality? Our policy is you identify what the | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
needs of the economy are in a particular... The needs could be | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
300,000 and you would be happy with that? You have to try to reduce free | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
movement of the labour. What's coming at the moment are people | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
coming for work and people who have no job. I think it will be reduced. | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
I don't know by how much. You're saying tens of thousands in five | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
years' time? Over the course of the Parliament. By 2022, that's at | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
guarantee. EU or non-EU? Mying Gration levels coming down to | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
sustainable levels, tens of thousands over the next Parliament. | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
You will be held to account over that issue? That's in our manifesto. | :44:34. | :44:42. | |
Labour wants tariff-free trade but won't advocate membership of the | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
customs Euanen. Free movement will end. How is your position any | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
different to Brandon's? We want a close re-Laoisship with the EU. If | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
the Government stays in power, how can you expect to have a close | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
relationship with the EU when Mrs May's language about how she will | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
deal with the EU is one of hostility and confrontation? She accused... In | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
policy terms, that's not a difference. Having a close | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
relationship or less close, these are words. In terms of policies, how | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
is the Labour position in terms of Brexit negotiations any different to | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
the Conservatives? We will do everything we can can to get an | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
greechlt. It is very like lie will be different in result. That's the | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
key thing that matters. You can get completely tariff-free trade and not | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
have freedom of the movement? We've said specifically we're not having | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
freedom of movement. We'll aim for a tariff-free deal. They won't give it | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
to us? No, we'll have to negotiate it. You've admitted there is no | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
policy difference between what the Conservatives are trying to get in | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
these Brexit negotiations and what you're doing. It is difficult to | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
tell, Jo, the Tories are so vague about how they'll conduct these | :45:59. | :46:00. | |
negotiations I think there's a big difference. | :46:01. | :46:10. | |
Compared to what Corbyn and his ministers say and what is in the | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
shadow manifesto and he has said he does not be with everything in it so | :46:14. | :46:16. | |
it is whether you can deliver. Theresa May from the beginning has | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
been clear as Prime Minister that she wanted to do with Europe and I | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
think we can get a good deal, and optimistically about free trade for | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
this country. But he said about it is worse than no deal. Labour's plan | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
for the immigration go up and Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott have said | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
that themselves but she wants a deal which is good for us and our | :46:35. | :46:36. | |
partners in Europe, working together to get a good deal because these are | :46:37. | :46:45. | |
partners we want to trade with as was dreading globally so to suggest | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
otherwise is misleading. And that we have to call it a day. Thank you for | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
joining us, Brandon, and Theresa May has just about to begin her speech! | :46:52. | :46:52. | |
Timing is everything. Now, in the run-up to election day | :46:53. | :46:53. | |
we've been talking to each of the five largest parties | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
in Northern Ireland. Today we're joined by | :46:57. | :46:58. | |
Colum Eastwood, leader of the SDLP, the Social Democratic and Labour | :46:59. | :47:00. | |
Party. Thank you for joining us. Three of | :47:01. | :47:08. | |
the largest Northern Irish parties are opposed Brexit, which he painted | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
as the major issue at this election. Why should people choose your party | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
over the others? Of course, the SDLP is the most pro-European party in | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
Ireland, probably on these islands. We always pro-Europe, whereas Sinn | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
Fein, the other pro-European party now, were not pro-Europe until a | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
couple of months ago, even just a year ago, before the referendum, | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
they did not campaign against Brexit as part of the referendum but we are | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
glad now that they are on our side. We were the party coming up with the | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
answers around ideas or special status, using the Good Friday | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
agreement to protect our interests, the customs union and the single | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
market status for our businesses and people. So the SDLP have a very | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
strong and proud record on Europe. The other thing is, we will actually | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
turn up to Westminster and vote and speak and be counted when it comes | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
to the debates on Brexit as we go through these negotiations. How many | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
seats do you think you will get? What will be a successful result for | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
you? Let's see, I don't do predictions, we have three seat at | :48:12. | :48:13. | |
the minute and we would like to retain those three otherwise our | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
main opponents in most of those constituencies are either the DUP | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
who will be cheerleaders for Theresa May or Sinn Fein, who are abstention | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
is the MPs and will not turn up at all. If Sinn Fein get their way, we | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
will end up with a situation where there will not be an Irish | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
nationalist representation in Westminster at all. That would be a | :48:33. | :48:35. | |
very bad thing. You are calling for a referendum on Irish unity after | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
Brexit. You say a border poll is no longer solely the project of Irish | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
nationalism but a pro-European internationalism but isn't that | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
something you want to be true rather than something with any real | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
evidence behind it? Well, first what I said is that the border poll is | :48:51. | :49:00. | |
part of the Good Friday agreement, we wrote it into the Good Friday | :49:01. | :49:02. | |
agreement and we recognise it should not happen right now. We think what | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
we have to do right now is first of all get the Northern Ireland | :49:06. | :49:07. | |
institutions up and running, deal with the issues around Brexit and | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
then look at the border poll after that has settled. But to allow work | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
on the Brexit committee and our work with partners in Dublin and Europe, | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
we have made sure that the European Union and the British government | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
have now recognised that a united Ireland would automatically mean | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
entering the European Union, that is unique situation because of the Good | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
Friday agreement and the principles within. But it's not happening at | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
the moment, you would accept? No, we know there's an enormous amount of | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
work to do and we're not saying it should happen right away, we are | :49:34. | :49:35. | |
saying it should happen in a positive and democratic way, to | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
ensure that Unionism feels part of the positive, democratic | :49:41. | :49:42. | |
conversation but we have a significant change in Northern | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
Ireland which means because of the work of the SDLP, it is now about | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
re-entering the European Union and I think that changes the debate from | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
being a very narrow debate to a much broader debate that I think makes a | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
border poll much more winnable for a nationalist perspective. Let me ask | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
you about Jeremy Corbyn, your partner is a traditional sister | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
party to the Labour Party so would you be happy to work with him in | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
Parliament? Yes, we have already and with other parties. If the polls are | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
right, we could end up having to work with a number of parties, | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
including the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the green party and we would be very | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
open to a progressive alliance to try to make sure we don't have a | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
Tory government who don't seem to have any interest in protecting the | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
interests of people in Ireland. They don't seem to have any interest in | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
trying to avoid a hard Brexit which would mean a hard border for our | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
people and businesses of this island. Of course, we will work with | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
a progressive alliance to try to make sure we get a very different | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
type of outcome from Brexit. Thank you for joining us. | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
Now our guest of the day, Charlie Falconer, used to be | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
a member of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. | :50:45. | :50:46. | |
Many were surprised he agreed to serve as Shadow Justice Secretary, | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
considering he and Mr Corbyn come from very different places | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
Then last June, after a year in post, he resigned - | :50:52. | :50:59. | |
along with 18 of his cabinet colleagues, warning that Labour | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
would "be left for dead" if it failed to unite | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
So how does Tony Blair's former flatmate feel | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
How do you feel? Have you changed your mind, have you had to review | :51:08. | :51:15. | |
your thoughts and feelings about Jeremy Corbyn? He the leader of the | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
Labour Party. I know that. We are committed other party to doing our | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
best to win this election. But you have not changed your personal view | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn? He's performed incredibly well in the course of | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
this general election campaign and the difference between him and | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
Theresa May is marked, he is calm and clear and brave and I think is | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
connecting particularly with young people and particularly with people | :51:42. | :51:43. | |
who have not voted before. I mentioned it before on the programme | :51:44. | :51:45. | |
and it was interesting to see the response he got as he arrived at the | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
Cambridge debate yesterday. There are still big policy difference | :51:50. | :51:51. | |
between you and him and his supporters, you supported the war in | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
Iraq, a war he opposed and has said was illegal. Last week in a speech | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
days after the Manchester attack, he suggested it contributed to the risk | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
of terror attacks here in the UK. Do you accept that? I don't think the | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
attacks in Manchester were caused by either the Iraq | :52:10. | :52:21. | |
war or anything the British government did. So you disagree with | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
Jeremy Corbyn? In relation to that, there would be a different emphasis, | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
yes. Because he said the foreign policy of Tony Blair and other | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
governments, like the one you are part of God is in some way linked to | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
being a recruiting Sergeant for people who go on to commit attacks? | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
He has said that and we would both be, Jeremy and I, completely united | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
in saying it is an abomination, what happened in Manchester... Everyone | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
agrees that. And we would also agree to other things, in so the security | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
services, the police, army and intelligence services, need | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
additional resources, they should be provided and we also agree that in | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
relation to anti-terrorist measures in legislation, there should be | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
appropriate judicial oversight. But you did not vote against the | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
terrorist legislation, and he did, he voted against every single one | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
and was the right to do that? I think he was wrong in relation to | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
particular issues but he has made clear subsequently he is not against | :53:11. | :53:20. | |
the state having those powers. But he's voted against all the | :53:21. | :53:22. | |
legislation in the past? He said because he thinks there was | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
inadequate judicial oversight. But he's voted against lots of | :53:25. | :53:26. | |
organisations people would generally think are pretty dreadful being | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
prescribed? Was he right? We disagreed at the time, but the | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
question now is do I agree, it is not of interest to the electorate | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
but what is my position in relation to the manifesto? I support it. Was | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
it appropriate for Jeremy Corbyn to make that political speech so soon | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
after the Manchester attack? It is right he should express his views in | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
relation to it. He has got to be straightforward with the British | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
public and they have to make a judgment about that. I don't think | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
it is wrong on an issue of such grievous significance to the nation, | :54:01. | :54:02. | |
namely the abominable attacks in Manchester, that the Leader of the | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
Opposition in the middle of a campaign, should not set out his | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
views. He was right to do so. Let's talk about the nuclear deterrent, | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's position is very clear but he has said if he becomes | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
Prime Minister, his government will conduct a comprehensive defence | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
review and that would also take into account the renewal of Trident | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
nuclear deterrent, which of course, Mr Corbyn is very clear he does not | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
support and therefore, could once again be in doubt. Are you | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
comfortable with that? My understanding is that the review | :54:33. | :54:34. | |
will not consider the question of whether or not Trident... That is | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
not clear at all because it will include everything, that is what | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has said and he is the leader of the party. I am relying on | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
what Nia Griffiths said. Using the shadow defence spokesman has a | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
clearer view than the leader of the party? My understanding is it is | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
accepted by the leader of the party that Trident is accepted by the | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
Labour Party and that is what the manifesto says. In a recent | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
interview, Michael Vick Andrew Neil asked on whether the defence review | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
would include Trident? Jeremy Corbyn said it would look at the role of | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
nuclear weapons as well as a reading which means it will be included. | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
Well, we can debate the small print, my position is that I am in favour | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
of retaining Trident. That is the position of the Labour Party in | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
terms of policy. I understand Jeremy Corbyn access that so I don't think | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
there is a difference between us, despite what you are saying. The | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
public record suggest that during the Troubles, Jeremy Corbyn met | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
members of the IRA, which I'm sure you know, on several occasions. He | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
says he was working for peace rather than honouring the armed struggle | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
but Seamus Mallon, one of the architects of the peace process, | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
said he never heard anyone mention Corbyn in the peace process and that | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
he clearly took the side of the IRA which was incompatible with working | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
for peace. In your mind, because you know Jeremy Corbyn and have known | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
him for a long time, did he play a role in the peace process? I don't | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
know in relation to any of that. I'm absolutely sure that Jeremy wanted | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
peace so I can't comment on the detail. Let's look at some of the | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
domestic policy commie called the idea of bringing the national grid | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
into public ownership going too far, saying that it would involve vast | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
expenditure when there are so many other things we should be spending | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
money on. You say you are supporting the Labour manifesto so you have | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
changed your mind? I support the thrust of the manifesto, the precise | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
detail of whether or not... This is not detail, this is a big policy, | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
renationalising utilities. And for example, renationalising the | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
railways, I would be strongly in favour of that. Are you in favour of | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
public ownership of the national grid? I think it is something for | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
much later, not necessarily straightaway. All the polling | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
companies have Labour on a high share of the vote than they scored | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
at the 2015 general election so despite the warnings from you and | :56:55. | :56:56. | |
others in the party, it suggests Jeremy Corbyn is more popular with | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
the public than Ed Miliband, does that surprise you? I think the | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
public have gone quite a long journey and what they are thinking | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
at the moment is that it is a choice between the Tories and Labour, and | :57:14. | :57:15. | |
what life would be like. People remember how bad things have been in | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
the 1980s under the Tories and this government has been in power | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
effectively for seven years and they are absolutely fed up with the | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
continuation of unnecessary austerity. Does it surprise you that | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
Jeremy Corbyn could poll better in terms of national vote share than Ed | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
Miliband? No it doesn't because the choice as it emerged in this | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
election was not ultimately about Brexit because I think people think | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
we have made our decision as a country about that, the choice is | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
between Theresa May leading the Tory party and Jeremy Corbyn leading the | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
Labour Party and I think the public are now making up their mind which | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
of the two they want and the other interesting thing that has happened | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
in the election is the smaller parties have been pushed to the | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
side. It is a big choice. Quickly because we're coming up, tuition | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
fees, the manifesto commitment, ?11 billion to abolish them and you are | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
part of the government that introduced it, is it the right | :58:06. | :58:16. | |
policy to abolish them? You need to to see the effect on the public | :58:17. | :58:18. | |
finances. That has been done. Looking at the effect on the public | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
finances, it is a possible policy. I'm not opposed to it as part of the | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
overall package. Now, as part of the BBC's general | :58:24. | :58:23. | |
election coverage, our very own Andrew is talking to the main party | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
leaders in in-depth interviews. Tonight, it's the turn | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
of the Liberal Democrat leader. with Tim Farron | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
tonight at 7pm on BBC One. That's all for today. | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
Thanks to our guests. Particularly to Charlie Falconer for | :58:35. | :58:43. | |
being the guest of the day. You said there had been an earthquake in the | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
Labour Party when Mr Corbyn was elected, do you think it marked the | :58:47. | :58:49. | |
end of the Blairite Iraq? It certainly did! -- Blairite era. | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
And Andrew will also be back again tonight with This Week on BBC One | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
As voters prepare to go to the polls | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
the Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron joins me | :59:05. | :59:12. |