02/06/2017 Daily Politics


02/06/2017

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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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The Conservative candidate Craig Mackinlay is charged

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following an investigation into 2015 election expenses.

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The Prime Minister confirms that the Conservatives will aim

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to bring net migration down to the tens of thousands by 2022.

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But is it a firm promise, a mere ambition, or just a pipe dream?

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Jeremy Corbyn says a Labour government would create a million

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"good jobs" if his party wins power next week, and promises

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"to rebuild communities that have been left behind".

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We speak to a shadow business minister.

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And Tim Farron promised a fightback for his party.

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We travel to the former Lib Dem heartlands in the south west to find

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I think this is the part where I make the joke about how

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the party could fit all its MPs in that beach hut!

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All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole

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programme today Toby Young, associate editor of The Spectator,

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and the journalist and film-maker, Paul Mason.

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Some breaking news this morning:

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The Conservative parliamentary candidate, Craig Mackinlay,

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who stood against Nigel Farage in the last general election,

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has been charged over allegations relating to his election expenses.

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The Crown Prosecution Service has announced that Mr Mackinlay,

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along with two other people, has been charged after

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an investigation into 2015 general election campaign expenses.

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The Conservative Party has released this response to the news...

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We talk now to our Home Affairs correspondent Danny Shaw.

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Give us the background to this? This all relates to campaign spending by

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the Conservatives before the 2015 general election. There are very

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strict limits on what each political party can spend locally. They have

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to declare those spending is with Morrissey and declare what they

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spent as part of the broader, national campaign. It is a very

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complicated set of rules and regulations and there are strict

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penalties if those rules are not adhered to. What happened in the

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South Thanet seat, very contested seat in Kent, where Nigel Farage of

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Ukip was up against Craig Mackinlay for the Conservatives, is a team of

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Conservative Party workers was based at hotels in the area for some of

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the campaign. They racked up thousands of pounds in expenses. The

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question that Kent Police, investigating this, and the CPS

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assessing the case had to determine is whether these expenses were

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properly declared locally or whether they were national expenses, part of

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the national campaign, should they have been included in the local

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party spending returns? And if so, did it constitute an offence? The

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CPS has decided today that three party members, Craig Mackinlay, with

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standing again, Nathan Grey, his agent and a party worker should be

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charged in connection with a number of allegations under the people act,

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in relation to the decorations they made about the party spending in the

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area. Right, let's hear the reaction from Nigel Farage, you mentioned,

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when he heard the news about the charges. What does it mean? Well,

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effectively what it means in our constituency is whilst his name will

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stay on the ballot paper, I think the chances of people voting for him

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are now very slim. I think that constituency will be a straight

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fight now between Ukip on the Labour Party and I will be there tomorrow

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afternoon, giving a speech at five o'clock to support our candidate.

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Nigel Farage there. What happens now? What happens now is the three

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people who have been charged will appear at Westminster Magistrates'

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Court on the 4th of July. As we've heard from the Conservatives, they

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are very confident that these allegations will turn out to be not

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proven against them. In the meantime, Craig Mackinlay is

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standing in the seat at the election next Thursday. There is nothing in

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law that prevents him from standing. He is innocent until proven guilty.

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None of the offences have been proven against him, so he will carry

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on standing in that seat. What effect it has on the election in the

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area or more broadly, I suppose, we will have to wait and see. Clearly

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this isn't news perhaps that the Conservatives wanted at this

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particular time, but there is nothing to stop Craig Mackinlay

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standing in that seat next Thursday. Thank you.

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The Conservatives have now promised that they will meet their target

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of cutting net migration to less 100,00 people per year by the end

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of the next Parliament if they win the election.

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The Prime Minister said they will hit the immigration target

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by 2022, and they've denied there is any confusion

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after ministers appeared to have slighty different takes

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Speaking to me yesterday, Conservative minister Brandon Lewis

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pledged they would hit that target in five years.

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You're saying tens of thousands in five years' time?

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Over the course of the Parliament, yes.

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Right, so by 2022, that's the guarantee.

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EU and non-EU, down to tens of thousands?

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We want to see migration levels come down to sustainable levels,

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which we think is tens of thousands, over the course of the next

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Parliament, yes, I've been very clear with it.

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So the electorate will be able to hold you to account

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However, the Brexit Secretary David Davis appeared on Question Time last

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night and gave a slightly more cautious answer, saying the Tories

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would aim to hit the target in five years but could not promise

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...Slowly, but it's got to be managed carefully.

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I just want to clarify this, I do think it's Tory party policy,

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if you're re-elected as the government next Thursday,

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to get it down to 100,000 within the five years of parliament?

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No, to get it down, it's the aim, yes but we can't

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So what are the positions of each of the main parties when it

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The Conservative manifesto pledges to reduce immigration to sustainable

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levels in the tens of thousands, and to place tighter

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Labour reject setting a target figure but promise "reasonable

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management" of migration, and they would remove students

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Ukip pledge to reduce net migration to zero

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While The Lib Dems say immigration is "essential

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to our economy and a benefit to our society".

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Meanwhile, the SNP want immigration powers devolved

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to Scotland so they can have different rules to

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To be young, what do you understand by the conservative commitment here,

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to bring down net migration to tens of thousands, will it be hit by 2022

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or an aspiration Marcelo and ambition rather than a promise and

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whether it is achieved partly hinges on what Brexit till we get. I don't

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think it's very sensible for Labour to try and turn this into a row

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because Labour doesn't have any ambition to reduce immigration at

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all. They would argue they say is unachievable. It was in 2010 first

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of all, and a coalition government and the subsequent Tory government

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have absolutely failed to meet it. It is achievable if we get a good

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Brexit deal. By 2022? Gas. And it seems less likely if Jeremy Corbyn

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is negotiating rather than Theresa May. Diane Abbott, due to be hon

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Secretary of labour win next week, has said she thinks freedom of

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movement is an inalienable human rights. It seems inconceivable

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migration will fall if Labour are elected next week. What is the point

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of setting a target that even ministers themselves can't agree

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whether it is achievable by 2020 to one not? I don't think they want to

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be tied to it because it hinges on what sort of deal be Prime Minister

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and her team managed to negotiate. Is not just tied to the Brexit deal,

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they made that commitment before we had an EU referendum and still

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failed to meet it. They will be able to meet if they get a good Brexit

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deal. With Theresa May negotiating, we have every chance. Labour doesn't

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even have any aspirational aim to do anything about immigration. Is that

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because, rightly or wrongly, they want to keep freedom of movement and

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immigration high? You say they don't have an aspiration to do anything

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about immigration, that's not true. They want to play set on a fair

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basis, commensurate with the strategy they have with negotiating

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a Brexit deal that allows access to the single market. When we were

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covering the Brexit referendum, I was covering for Channel 4, again

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and again people who wanted to come out of Europe would say to you, I'm

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not bothered about the numbers, it's the principle is that I'm bothered

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about, that everybody can come, that everybody can immediately have

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access to the NHS and education system. I think the power of saying

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let's elaborate the principle, the fair system. The numbers come

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second. It's also true that the Tories recognise, I agree with David

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Davis on this, a ?6 billion hit to the economy from achieving that

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target is something you want to weigh up, you want to be careful

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about the way you achieve it. And businesses know you can't achieve it

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in the radical and sort of rhetorical way that the Tory right,

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the anti-immigration xenophobes want. The problem is you say you

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understood when you spoke to people about what they wanted in terms of

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taking back control, and they weren't so bothered about the

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numbers, do you think there are still many people in Britain who

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would like to see the numbers come down, that's what they understood by

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taking back control? Yes, I think there. Can they commit to doing

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that? No, because there are also people, fair-minded people who may

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have voted Conservative or Ukip in the last election, who understand if

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you deal with the principle, that is more sensible than setting an

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arbitrary target. It's possible we get half a million Brits coming back

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from Spain that blows the target out of the water. Paul has clarified

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what Labour's policy is on this. I don't speak for Labour. It sounds

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like Labour's policy when it goes into the Brexit negotiations will be

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to stay in the single market, even if that means... They want to end

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freedom of movement. You can't stay in the single market and do that.

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The single market is a priority for them. Will people believe them? Not

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long before Jeremy Corbyn said Labour isn't wedded to freedom of

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movement as a point of principle, but I don't want that to be

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misinterpreted. Personally years in favour of it. Let's explain what it

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is, it's a qualified right, not an inalienable right of workers,

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whether Diane Abbott said it or not. Legally it is a qualified right. It

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is one of the four pillars. If we come out of Europe it will end.

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There will be a fair migration system. I hope that system does

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involve fewer low paid agency workers coming in. I think the

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Cabinet Office, they didn't put it in the manifesto, are discussing

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trying to create a floor for salaries on which you can exercise

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your freedom of movement. I would favour that. But both Labour and the

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Conservatives have said that they do still need low skilled workers to

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coming to Britain. Even Andrea Leadsom is reported to be seeking

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assurance for farmers and agricultural services. Because it is

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good for the economy. In the end it will be hard to keep that commitment

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to reducing or completely cutting on skilled workers coming in from the

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EU. I am not sure we will need more than tens of thousands of net

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migrants to pick apples once we've left the EU. That is just one

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sector. Just to be clear, if keeping freedom of movement is a condition

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of staying in the single market, that's what you choose? It is a

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condition and that is why Labour is seeking access to the single market

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and not membership to it. Everyone can have access but tariff free is

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what both parties say. Yesterday, a well known political

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power couple took to social media to post a picture of their feet

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as they lay in bed. So the question for today

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is whose feet are they? Is it: A) Emanuel Macron

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and Brigitte Trogneux? At the end of the show,

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our very own political power couple, Paul and Toby, will hopefully give

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us the correct answer. Who knows, maybe they'll

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post a picture of their The Prime Minister has

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told President Trump that she is disappointed

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by his decision withdraw the US That was the agreement that saw

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almost 200 countries, including the world's biggest

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polluters, agree on a need to cut Yesterday Mr Trump explained his

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decision, arguing the deal put At what point do they start

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laughing at us as a country? At what point does

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America get demeaned? At what point do they start

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laughing at us as a country? We want fair treatment

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for its citizens, and we want fair We don't want other leaders

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and other countries laughing at u s any more, and they won't be,

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they won't be. I was elected to represent the

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citizens of Pittsburgh - not Paris. And we're joined now

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by the Liberal Democrat, Ed Davey, who served as the Secretary of State

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for Energy and Climate Change under Welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Donald Trump was elected on a promise to do exactly this, using

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the line at the end of that clip, so should we be surprised he's

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fulfilling a campaign promise? Not surprised that more than

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disappointed. He is letting down his own people. He is lying to them

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saying that the climate change agreement is going to hurt American

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industry. More than twice as many people work in the solar industry as

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the coal industry and that's the growing industry and the growth jobs

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for America, just like elsewhere, are in the clean tech, the green

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energy sector, and so he has sold them a live and unfortunately is

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delivering on it. It's bad economic and science. The Paris deal is a

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voluntary deal, isn't it? The USA can stay committed to the agreement

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if they choose to without actually fulfilling its pledge to limit

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emissions? Could it remain as part of the Paris agreement and still

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broker it? But look what he's doing from the environmental pictures

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agency policy outwards? They are pulling back on the commitments

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Barack Obama gave to take action in America and given the USA represents

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15% of global greenhouse gases, the second largest polluter after China,

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they have to act for the world are to succeed in tackling climate

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change and he is going back on that and also on America's help to other

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countries, developing countries, who needs support about Britain, Germany

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and other countries are giving so he is really undermining the global

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effort on climate change and we stood speak out loud and hard

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against this American betrayal. Why is he undermining the rest of the

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world in terms of what they do to reduce green gas emissions because

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just because he is pulling out, it was a voluntary deal anyway, why

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should it affect the rest of the world? Not in sense of our actions,

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we should keep acting and do far more than the Conservative

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Government was doing however because they represent so much of the

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world's greenhouse gases, we need them to act. This is a global

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problem, you can't act alone of. That the whole reason why we had an

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agreement in the UN so everybody was playing their fair share and

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America, as one of the largest polluters in the world and the

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richest, should play its part. It has reduced its emissions in the

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last few years. But not by nowhere near enough. 3%. That is tiny. What

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has the EU done with its emissions? Our target in 2020 was 20% and I

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think it's about 24%. We are aiming and I'm negotiated a deal that we

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should reduced by at least 40% by 2030, far more ambitious than the

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USA, so we have been playing a leadership role in the UK until the

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Conservatives took power and rolled back on the action. China and India

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are now acting, so America is isolating itself fulfil the only

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other counties opted out our Syria, Nicaraguan and do we think the USA

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is in this position when science is worrying about the planet. Should

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Theresa May take a tougher line? Saying she's disappointed. It's a

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secondary benefit. She has had a telephone conversation with him and

:18:53.:18:55.

expressed her disappointment at his actions. Two but this context, the

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Paris Accord is a very weak agreement that doesn't commit any of

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its signatories to meeting any particular target. It was seen as a

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ground-breaking agreement. True, and it's disappointing Donald Trump have

:19:11.:19:13.

pulled out but last March he said America was not going to meet its

:19:14.:19:19.

voluntary target of reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 26%. It would

:19:20.:19:27.

be meaningful, not just a symbolic gesture, if it meant other countries

:19:28.:19:31.

withdrawing to but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. There

:19:32.:19:36.

could be a domino effect, we have to wait and see, but is Donald Trump

:19:37.:19:41.

entitled to put America first and American jobs first even if it won't

:19:42.:19:45.

actually have that effect? As long as the understands we are laughing

:19:46.:19:50.

at him and his country and their appalling broken politics. He

:19:51.:19:55.

doesn't care. He may not care but those coalminers will care because

:19:56.:20:01.

they love the earth more than they love mining coal, but this will have

:20:02.:20:05.

domestic repercussions because businesses are looking for a

:20:06.:20:10.

long-term regulatory signal. The Tory Government of 2015 preferred

:20:11.:20:17.

fracking. It's quite clear Theresa May, if she wins, will prefer

:20:18.:20:22.

fracking and carbon emissions. They will be the soft underbelly of Paris

:20:23.:20:26.

and they will predict if it gets tough under Brexit, they are the

:20:27.:20:30.

next ones who will go. You will stay with us.

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Now, it can be a harsh master, democracy, and no party has learned

:20:34.:20:36.

that lesson more brutally in the last couple of years

:20:37.:20:38.

Since their loss of dozens of seats in 2015, Tim Farron has promised

:20:39.:20:42.

So we sent our Adam to the one-time party stronghold in the southwest

:20:43.:20:47.

South Devon - great for holiday-makers,

:20:48.:20:53.

Here in the land of beaches, ice creams model villages,

:20:54.:20:58.

the Liberal Democrats used to be totally dominant, but at the last

:20:59.:21:01.

election they lost all of the 15 seats they held in the south-west

:21:02.:21:04.

So, how's that Lib Dem fightback going?

:21:05.:21:12.

Their plan to win here is to oppose changes to NHS services and pensions

:21:13.:21:16.

proposed by the Tories and to fight Brexit.

:21:17.:21:19.

Down on the prom, it turns out they win some, they lose some.

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We both work at Torbay Hospital, as part of the nursing team,

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and the Conservative government are crippling us.

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So you would quite like an alternative?

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I would definitely like an alternative.

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The Lib Dems' whole thing is about being anti-Brexit.

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Well, I'm for Brexit, so that sums it up!

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There's no way they could win you over?

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Well, I used a vote for them, but I don't any more.

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Because Theresa May is a far stronger candidate to get

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the proper Brexit for us, I feel.

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And there's one thing some people here really don't like the look of -

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Lib Dem policy on a different kind of weed.

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I used to quite like them, but now I don't approve with the cannabis

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Drugs are bad, in whatever form, and it leads to other things,

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and I just think a lot of older people, especially, are going to be

:22:19.:22:22.

Do you think this is the Lib Dems' south-west battle bus?

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I think this is the part where I make the joke about how

:22:30.:22:38.

the party could fit all its MPs in that beach hut...

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But, how do voters see the Lib Dem leader?

:22:42.:22:44.

Let's ask at the beach, conveniently named after one of his rivals.

:22:45.:22:49.

Tim Farron, the leader of the Lib Dems.

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Well, he's the leader of the Lib Dems.

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Oh, I thought he'd done something nasty or something.

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He's an interesting fellow, and I quite like him.

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I don't know if he's strong enough, but I just, I was very impressed

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with the way he answered this chap on TV, who was extremely rude.

:23:12.:23:15.

So, in this lush corner of England, there's good news and bad

:23:16.:23:21.

for the Lib Dems on their long march back to where they were.

:23:22.:23:29.

The hash tag doesn't seem to have been a roaring success in the

:23:30.:23:40.

south-west and looking at the polls, I know they're not always right, but

:23:41.:23:45.

it is because your anti-Brexit in south-west London, our stance is

:23:46.:23:52.

going really well. Lets talk about the south-west because they can't

:23:53.:23:57.

talk about individual places. A la opposition to the mid-dementia tax

:23:58.:24:01.

is urging people to supporters now because they realise Theresa May's

:24:02.:24:06.

social care policy will hit a lot of people who worked and saved hard.

:24:07.:24:09.

You will look at our support for getting more support in the health

:24:10.:24:14.

service by putting a penny on income tax, they see that as a credible

:24:15.:24:19.

policy. Is that overshadowed to some extent, I'd take your point, that

:24:20.:24:24.

the much bigger overarching message right from the start from the Lib

:24:25.:24:29.

Dems, rightly or wrongly, was your firm stance against Brexit, wanting

:24:30.:24:32.

to stay in the single market and wanting a second referendum which

:24:33.:24:36.

the people said they don't support? The people in that film may not but

:24:37.:24:40.

many others do like our policy. In the south-west. On Brexit? Some

:24:41.:24:46.

people believe we should remain in the EU, it's good for jobs, the

:24:47.:24:51.

economy, young people, but the campaign isn't just about Brexit.

:24:52.:24:57.

Let's be clear. Tim Farron made his very, very firm stance on it. We are

:24:58.:25:02.

very proud of being a pro-European party believe it's right to

:25:03.:25:05.

co-operate with our neighbours and we don't like the hostility coming

:25:06.:25:09.

from the Conservative Party to people who are friends across

:25:10.:25:13.

Europe. If you just look of the numbers of people who voted remain,

:25:14.:25:17.

and everyone can see why the Lib Dems, it's consistent with what you

:25:18.:25:23.

said about Europe, and 48%, if we can garner support from that number

:25:24.:25:27.

we will do well in the general election. The problem is a

:25:28.:25:30.

proportion of those people have now accented Brexit and moved on and

:25:31.:25:33.

therefore you have lost what would've been support. This is why

:25:34.:25:37.

it's not just about Brexit because a lot of those people, who are remain

:25:38.:25:44.

voters, are also worried about the unfair and uncaring dementia tax of

:25:45.:25:48.

the Conservatives, about health cuts, cuts to their schools, and

:25:49.:25:52.

they know across the south-west in places like North Devon North

:25:53.:25:58.

Cornwall and Dorset, the Lib Dems are the challenges to the Tories so

:25:59.:26:02.

if you want to vote for investment in health service, this outrageous

:26:03.:26:07.

inheritance tax on low and modest income people, you have got to vote

:26:08.:26:15.

Lib Dem. The Conservatives have committed to increase spending on

:26:16.:26:18.

health service in real terms by 8 billion a year by 2022, so to claim

:26:19.:26:22.

they are proposing to cut the NHS is a flat-out fake news. It's not

:26:23.:26:26.

because the pressures on the health service, as you ought to know, with

:26:27.:26:30.

the ageing population and the increased population, will overcome

:26:31.:26:36.

that increase and that's why the Lib Dems say, on top of the base... The

:26:37.:26:41.

Conservative pledge is to increase it per person in real terms. In the

:26:42.:26:47.

health service? It's calculated per head of the British population. That

:26:48.:26:53.

does not do the ageing population. You are failing to one slight

:26:54.:26:57.

problem. That's why the Lib Dems believe we need extra money. That's

:26:58.:27:01.

the social care policy would you have just crashed. That is to do

:27:02.:27:08.

with the ageing population. It will hit loads of people in the

:27:09.:27:11.

south-west of England who have properties you could be worth

:27:12.:27:16.

?400,000, modest properties, and lower middle incomes, and you are

:27:17.:27:20.

putting an inheritance tax meant for the wealthy on ordinary people,

:27:21.:27:24.

quite a scandal, ordinary people who are unlucky enough to see their

:27:25.:27:28.

relatives have care for ten years because they have dementia will now

:27:29.:27:32.

pay tax higher than the wealthy, typical of the Tory party. The Lib

:27:33.:27:38.

Dems want it both ways. Your leading... Ed, you have to go back

:27:39.:27:43.

on the campaign trail, thank you for coming in. We will come back to the

:27:44.:27:49.

social care policy and U-turn but let's go back to the core of the

:27:50.:27:52.

discussion at the beginning. Do you think the Lib Dems made a mistake

:27:53.:27:59.

focusing their campaign on Brexit? I think politics and political

:28:00.:28:03.

leadership is about being a learning organisation. I don't think they

:28:04.:28:06.

made a mistake to think of as a strong suit for them because there,

:28:07.:28:13.

the urban celeriac, south-west London, it's not the only place, who

:28:14.:28:16.

would like a second referendum and would like to stop Brexit. The

:28:17.:28:20.

problem is, they have to interface with other ordinary people who have

:28:21.:28:25.

moved on and I think what the Lib Dems haven't learned is this is not

:28:26.:28:30.

playing in the election and my biggest disappointment with Tim

:28:31.:28:34.

Farron as a leader is his inability to learn from the interactions with

:28:35.:28:38.

the public, that they have moved on from Brexit, they do care

:28:39.:28:40.

passionately about what Ed Davey is talk about, the dementia tax, and

:28:41.:28:45.

the Lib Dems are doing us a disservice by failing to challenge

:28:46.:28:50.

the Tories. Actually, on the policy of social care you were debating

:28:51.:28:54.

with Ed Davey, that is given the Lib Dems and other opposition parties an

:28:55.:28:59.

opportunity because of the about-face Theresa May was forced to

:29:00.:29:04.

make. And opportunity they don't appear to have exploited. Let's not

:29:05.:29:08.

forget that there will be a cap on the contribution. There is now but

:29:09.:29:13.

we don't know what it is. People will be able to keep ?100,000 of

:29:14.:29:21.

their home value. To be confirmed, much of their manifesto is TBC. To

:29:22.:29:27.

be confirmed. Yes, it will be a garden tax. It is fake news, a life.

:29:28.:29:37.

Fake news. Hang on. Call out the fake news now. So it's OK to

:29:38.:29:43.

describe something as a dementia tax? Gentlemen, we are going to move

:29:44.:29:45.

onto a different subject, jobs. Now, the Labour party have said

:29:46.:29:49.

that their plan for Britain's economy will create a million jobs

:29:50.:29:51.

and drive growth. The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

:29:52.:29:53.

was in York this morning giving a speech on Labour's industrial

:29:54.:29:56.

strategy, he said he would work to make Britian's energy systems 60%

:29:57.:29:59.

renewable by 2030 and had this to say about the state

:30:00.:30:01.

of the UK's jobs market. I've seen an economy

:30:02.:30:05.

that is grossly imbalanced. Talk to people and you'll understand

:30:06.:30:09.

the consequences of this problem. London overheats, and the cost

:30:10.:30:14.

of living there rises, while communities in too much

:30:15.:30:17.

of the rest of the country have seen their local

:30:18.:30:20.

economies hollowed out, industries decline

:30:21.:30:23.

and stable jobs gone. Right across our country too many

:30:24.:30:28.

people are trapped in precarious, low-paid work, while a few

:30:29.:30:31.

at the top get much richer. And joining me now is

:30:32.:30:37.

Labour's Shadow Industrial Strategy She is in York. One of your flagship

:30:38.:30:50.

policies is raising corporation tax by 7% to 26% to fund public

:30:51.:30:54.

services. This means hundreds of thousands of businesses will have

:30:55.:30:57.

less money to spend on creating jobs. So in fact, your plan will

:30:58.:31:02.

hurt jobs. Our plan, the industrial strategy

:31:03.:31:09.

we've announced today, is about creating 1 million good jobs across

:31:10.:31:14.

the UK and using our industrial strategy to do that. On the point of

:31:15.:31:19.

the corporation tax, what we're doing is we are restoring

:31:20.:31:22.

corporation tax still to less than the levels it was when Labour left

:31:23.:31:29.

and to lessen the levels of almost every other country. In the United

:31:30.:31:34.

States, corporation taxes at 39%, for example. What we are saying

:31:35.:31:38.

here, and this is the perfect riposte to Donald Trump, who argues

:31:39.:31:42.

that withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement is about

:31:43.:31:47.

protecting jobs, we are showing that by decarbonising our energy

:31:48.:31:50.

production we can create jobs. And not just any jobs, good jobs, not

:31:51.:31:56.

minimum wage jobs, jobs that pay a proper wage on jobs people can be

:31:57.:31:59.

proud of. That is what this country needs. Except they will have less

:32:00.:32:05.

money, of course, businesses, if you're going to tax them heavily

:32:06.:32:08.

they will have less money. Whatever you do with that money is up to the

:32:09.:32:14.

Labour Party. Hang on... You mustn't look at this as a zero sum game. A

:32:15.:32:22.

growing economy, so they won't have, they won't have less money. But I am

:32:23.:32:26.

looking at the policy in isolation because this is what you're talking

:32:27.:32:29.

about, it's an important policy anew flagged it up because you want to

:32:30.:32:33.

fund public services with it. The Institute for Fiscal Studies says

:32:34.:32:37.

plan will raise less money in the medium to long term, because

:32:38.:32:40.

companies will choose not to invest in the UK. This isn't me, this is

:32:41.:32:44.

the Institute for Fiscal Studies, who say that your plans, your fiscal

:32:45.:32:49.

plans are overly optimistic and will put companies off investing in the

:32:50.:32:52.

UK, which means you won't be able to create those jobs. Our plans are

:32:53.:33:00.

fully costed, and in costing them we've taken allowance for

:33:01.:33:04.

behavioural change as a consequence of the changes to the taxes that we

:33:05.:33:08.

will be making specifically for corporation tax. But much of our

:33:09.:33:13.

plan we are announcing today is actually funded by our national

:33:14.:33:16.

transformation fund and national investment bank. The creation of a

:33:17.:33:20.

national investment bank will have regional offices, including a bank

:33:21.:33:27.

of the North, which will encourage investment in small and medium

:33:28.:33:32.

businesses across our countries, -- country, which will address... We

:33:33.:33:36.

have the most regionally imbalanced economy among the major economies

:33:37.:33:40.

and we need to get that right, because it's holding back the

:33:41.:33:46.

potential of cities like York, of our nations and regions. Our people,

:33:47.:33:52.

our employers are being held back by a lack of investment, a lack of

:33:53.:33:56.

investment in skills. We have one of the worst productivity rates in the

:33:57.:34:01.

developed world. Isn't that to do with levels of high employment?

:34:02.:34:04.

Listening to you and Jeremy Corbyn, you would think we are in the midst

:34:05.:34:09.

of a massive unemployment crisis. Actually implement is at a record

:34:10.:34:14.

high and we have the lowest youth unemployment in Europe. So are you

:34:15.:34:17.

trying to fix something that isn't broken? You talk to people in

:34:18.:34:25.

Newcastle, across the country, they haven't had a pay rise... That is

:34:26.:34:30.

different. We will come onto wages in a minute. We're talking about

:34:31.:34:35.

creating jobs and we have very high employment levels. You accept that?

:34:36.:34:41.

6 million people are in work and they are not in a job that pays them

:34:42.:34:45.

a living wage. They cannot live from their work. We are recreating,

:34:46.:34:52.

rebuilding the working poor. This strategy is about ensuring that

:34:53.:34:55.

those who are in work, that work pays and they can have work they are

:34:56.:35:00.

proud of. Let's talk about wages. That is a problem, they have

:35:01.:35:04.

stagnated for years since the financial crash. Hasn't she got a

:35:05.:35:10.

point that the jobs being created, the jobs miracle Tories are talking

:35:11.:35:14.

about, yes people are white, but it's not enough to help them live in

:35:15.:35:19.

a way that you wore I would like to. It is true wages have stagnated

:35:20.:35:23.

since the financial crash, but that was a global financial crash and

:35:24.:35:25.

that has happened all over the developed world, not just in the UK.

:35:26.:35:29.

You are quite right to point out that under the last Labour

:35:30.:35:33.

government in 2010, after 13 years of Labour being in office,

:35:34.:35:38.

unemployment at 8%, it's now about 4.5%. Unemployment among young

:35:39.:35:42.

people was a million when Labour left office now less than half a

:35:43.:35:44.

million. Labour's industrial strategy is

:35:45.:35:58.

nonsense. There are economic policy, as before, is tax and spend. Why is

:35:59.:36:00.

it nonsense? They said they wanted to nationalise the gas, electricity

:36:01.:36:03.

and water industries. That will cost roughly 200 billion. Where will they

:36:04.:36:05.

find the money? Labour's industrial strategy is to plant money trees on

:36:06.:36:09.

an industrial scale. It's about creating jobs, investing around the

:36:10.:36:14.

country, not just London and the south-east, that's not nonsense. The

:36:15.:36:18.

northern powerhouse was the Conservative policy. We have just

:36:19.:36:24.

seen mayors elected in Birmingham and Manchester, that's hardly a

:36:25.:36:27.

Labour Party policy. No one has any confidence in the Labour Party's

:36:28.:36:31.

ability to grow the economy. The deficit was over 150 billion and now

:36:32.:36:42.

it is half of that. In terms of trust in the economy, that is a

:36:43.:36:45.

problem for Labour. For all policies people may regard as sensible and

:36:46.:36:49.

may lead to growth in the economy, they still don't trust Labour to do

:36:50.:36:54.

it. I have to say, that's not what I found on the doorstep. People have

:36:55.:36:57.

sensible questions about where the money comes from to pay for the

:36:58.:37:02.

fiscal muck... What about the ISS saying... They are a very respected

:37:03.:37:08.

spreadsheet organisation for adding up whether or not people's

:37:09.:37:12.

commitments and tax-raising seriously add up but they have a

:37:13.:37:18.

wrong-un model of the macro economic star Nymex of this country. With

:37:19.:37:23.

respect to them, it would be equally possible to get expert opinion to

:37:24.:37:27.

back up what Labour says. On this question of a national industrial

:37:28.:37:30.

strategy, I think it is important... People like me have been saying for

:37:31.:37:35.

years it's not easy to do national industrial strategy but desperately

:37:36.:37:37.

desired that all parties get their heads around how we do it. Because

:37:38.:37:42.

after Brexit, Brexit will happen, the world will be reshaped. The

:37:43.:37:46.

market doesn't solve it. The government needs to shape the market

:37:47.:37:50.

and encourage investment in high quality employment and high-value

:37:51.:37:56.

business. If we don't, it will go to Ireland, it will go to an

:37:57.:37:59.

independent Scotland, if that takes place. In terms of corporation tax,

:38:00.:38:05.

we have a lower corporation tax than the rest of the G7. Look what

:38:06.:38:15.

attracts. Investment. There is very little high-value investment coming

:38:16.:38:17.

to the United Kingdom because they prefer where places where people

:38:18.:38:23.

feel happy in their skins and we haven't given international

:38:24.:38:30.

business... Let me go finally back to Chi Onwurah. An zero hours

:38:31.:38:34.

contracts. McDonald's carried out a survey of its employees, it wanted

:38:35.:38:38.

to offer all of them the chance to go on to fixed term contract and a

:38:39.:38:41.

significant number of them said, we would like to stay on flexible

:38:42.:38:49.

contracts. What do you say to that? Our manifesto says quite clearly our

:38:50.:38:54.

industrial strategy is we will abolish zero hours contracts but

:38:55.:38:58.

retain the ability for flexible employment, which is at the control

:38:59.:39:02.

of the employee. I know from talking, I know you cannot plan for

:39:03.:39:09.

their parental duties, for looking for other jobs it is absolutely

:39:10.:39:14.

destroying many lives, zero hours contracts badly implemented. Also

:39:15.:39:22.

making people invest in employees, to have a proper contract, to have

:39:23.:39:28.

proper investment, to have a proper education service which ensures

:39:29.:39:30.

working people also can have access to education and skills, improve

:39:31.:39:38.

productivity, create jobs and have an ecomony that works for many and

:39:39.:39:44.

not this view. The ONS carried out a survey and discovered two thirds of

:39:45.:39:47.

the people on zero hours contracts like being on zero hours contracts.

:39:48.:39:53.

They like flexibility. That includes a 60 or so people employed by Labour

:39:54.:39:58.

Party MPs on zero hours contracts. Chi Onwurah, thank you.

:39:59.:40:01.

Now, in the run-up to election day we've been talking to each

:40:02.:40:04.

of the five largest parties in Northern Ireland.

:40:05.:40:06.

Yesterday we spoke to the SDLP and today we're joined

:40:07.:40:08.

Welcome to the Daily Politics. You traditionally don't take your seats

:40:09.:40:15.

in Westminster. Remind viewers of why. We refuse to take an oath of

:40:16.:40:22.

allegiance to any monarch in those circumstances. We also believe, and

:40:23.:40:29.

the evidence shows us, a collection of nationalist Irish MPs... We want

:40:30.:40:35.

to see power devolved to Ireland, devolved institutions working on

:40:36.:40:41.

Ireland and reunification of the island of Ireland. At your manifesto

:40:42.:40:46.

launch and said the Conservatives want to force Northern Ireland into

:40:47.:40:50.

a disastrous Brexit. Would you consider taking your seats in order

:40:51.:40:54.

to get Jeremy Corbyn over the line in the event of a hung parliament?

:40:55.:40:58.

That scenario will not arise. Regardless of the outcome of the

:40:59.:41:04.

election. We will see this day next week what the outcome is. We will

:41:05.:41:08.

not be taking an oath. Even if it allows the Conservatives to enforce

:41:09.:41:13.

what you called a disastrous Brexit? I think the scenario that will

:41:14.:41:16.

develop, and this will be well discussed, if there is a hung

:41:17.:41:19.

parliament in that sense, those discussions will take place between

:41:20.:41:23.

the Labour and Scottish Nationalist party, Labour and other individual

:41:24.:41:30.

political parties. Jeremy Corbyn is on record as saying he would try to

:41:31.:41:34.

form a minority government. Your leader said this election is very

:41:35.:41:37.

much about taking an anti-Brexit stance. To accept if the

:41:38.:41:41.

Conservatives win, and if they win with a reasonable majority, they do

:41:42.:41:44.

have a mandate for the Brexit they are planning? Let me be clear about

:41:45.:41:49.

this. If the people of England and Wales wish to leave the European

:41:50.:41:52.

Union, I wish them well. We want to see a stable economy on the island

:41:53.:41:57.

of Britain because we trade with it and rely on that trade for Roma

:41:58.:42:02.

economic well-being, on the entire island of Ireland. People in north

:42:03.:42:06.

of Ireland voted to stay in the EU. We are the only part of what is

:42:07.:42:10.

known as the UK that will have a border with the European state. If

:42:11.:42:15.

an economic border is placed on Northern Ireland as a result of

:42:16.:42:18.

Brexit it will damage our economy, the economy in Ireland... I don't

:42:19.:42:25.

think it does anyone any favours. Our peace process was the

:42:26.:42:30.

recognition of the Democratic voices on Ireland. The first major test of

:42:31.:42:35.

that has been Brexit. We voted to remain, we expect that vote to be

:42:36.:42:39.

respected by which ever government comes into power in Westminster next

:42:40.:42:46.

week. As you outlined, your commitment to remaining part of the

:42:47.:42:50.

EU, your manifesto also calls for Irish unity and a referendum on that

:42:51.:42:54.

in the next five years. Is that really the way to get Unionists on

:42:55.:42:58.

site, with whom you obviously share views on Brexit, public spending and

:42:59.:43:04.

so on? As I said at the start of the interview, we are a Republican party

:43:05.:43:12.

and we believe in the unification of the island... If you're talking

:43:13.:43:15.

about this election and you are worried about Brexit, shouldn't you

:43:16.:43:19.

be trying to get people to vote for you, who will further those more

:43:20.:43:23.

immediate concerns? I think in terms of the vote that lies ahead, people

:43:24.:43:28.

already know Sinn Fein's position, it's no secret to them.

:43:29.:43:32.

Reunification is an answer to Brexit. We have also put forward a

:43:33.:43:35.

very detailed document in relation to designated plans for the

:43:36.:43:47.

relationship with the EU. We have put proposals and alternatives

:43:48.:43:52.

forward to the Irish government and the British government and to other

:43:53.:43:55.

European states. As the Brexit negotiations outlined or roll on,

:43:56.:44:01.

there will be a form of Brexit across these islands. We believe we

:44:02.:44:11.

can shape that Brexit on the island of Ireland to sort the people of

:44:12.:44:13.

Ireland. Nobody wants a border on that happen, are you addressing a

:44:14.:44:18.

problem everybody agrees about? With respect, Theresa May has come out

:44:19.:44:25.

with many warm words about the island of Ireland in terms of no

:44:26.:44:28.

hard border, frictionless border... Issue being untruthful? I follow her

:44:29.:44:35.

policies, policies are to the single market and the customs union. If

:44:36.:44:39.

she's fill those policies, there has to be a border on the island of

:44:40.:44:43.

Ireland because the border will be with another European state and not

:44:44.:44:46.

only with the European state but with the entire European Union. That

:44:47.:44:49.

that will be part of the negotiations and she has made it

:44:50.:44:52.

very clear she doesn't want the border. We also accept her intended

:44:53.:44:58.

and stated policies mean no border on the island of Ireland is a

:44:59.:45:01.

fantasy, if Shiva fills her objective of leaving the customs

:45:02.:45:04.

union and single European market, Theresa May can have all the warm

:45:05.:45:08.

words she wants but her policies direct us towards a border on the

:45:09.:45:12.

island of Ireland. Whether it is hard or soft or frictionless it will

:45:13.:45:17.

be an economic border. Currently billions of pounds of trade crossed

:45:18.:45:21.

that border on a monthly basis. Currently carried free. If we leave

:45:22.:45:24.

the customs union and the single European market there will be

:45:25.:45:28.

tariffs on those goods. How do feel the turmoil in politics in Northern

:45:29.:45:35.

Ireland will affect the result? The institutions collapsed over

:45:36.:45:37.

allegations of corruption at the highest levels of government, but

:45:38.:45:42.

behind that was also the backdrop of Brexit. Brexit has caused major

:45:43.:45:44.

difficulties in our political institutions here, denying

:45:45.:45:51.

democratic rights to many people has caused problems for our political

:45:52.:45:55.

institutions but we are committed to re-entering negotiations to restore

:45:56.:45:58.

those institutions. We believe they are important and people want those

:45:59.:46:02.

institutions. They want to be governed by local politicians. That

:46:03.:46:07.

is our objective after the elections, to deal with the

:46:08.:46:10.

political difficulties in and around our institutions but we still have

:46:11.:46:11.

to deal with Brexit. Thank you. In a typical election campaign,

:46:12.:46:15.

the air is thick with numbers. Politicians of all parties use them

:46:16.:46:17.

as ammunition to help win our votes whether they're claiming

:46:18.:46:21.

a particular policy has helped millions of families or promising

:46:22.:46:23.

billions of pounds in spending. But increasingly, claims like these

:46:24.:46:25.

are coming in for more scrutiny. Now, to help us tell

:46:26.:46:28.

the difference between cold, hard facts and more spurious

:46:29.:46:30.

statistics, we can speak to David Spiegelhalter,

:46:31.:46:33.

President of the Royal Statistical He's on College Green

:46:34.:46:35.

with our reporter Emma Vardy. Of course the old cliche says there

:46:36.:46:48.

are lies, dam lies and statistics, so that's why we need people like

:46:49.:46:54.

this and the professor has taken a look at some of the claims made

:46:55.:46:57.

during the campaign and where you say we need to look little more

:46:58.:47:01.

closely. Thanks very much. Let's look at net migration, an important

:47:02.:47:06.

topic for the Conservatives and that is running at 250,000 last year, the

:47:07.:47:11.

latest figures, the number of people coming in mine as a number of people

:47:12.:47:16.

going out but we need to take that number apart. It's quite

:47:17.:47:20.

compensated. Among British, there are 60,000 leaving the country than

:47:21.:47:26.

coming in to live and among EU migrants, 133,000 extra coming in

:47:27.:47:30.

but non-EU, the biggest contribution, 175,000. We add those

:47:31.:47:36.

numbers up together. If we aim, as the Tories say, to get below 100,000

:47:37.:47:42.

in a certain amount of time which is not click on which of these will

:47:43.:47:46.

change? We assume all of these will go down. But, in order to get to

:47:47.:47:51.

under 100,000, it will need more than just this to change, either

:47:52.:47:58.

more Brits will have to leave, or or restriction on non-EU migrants, and

:47:59.:48:00.

these tend to be skilled people and students who can commit to the

:48:01.:48:06.

economy. This is not the main contribution. Let's take a look at

:48:07.:48:11.

one of the claims made by Labour. The party says inequality is

:48:12.:48:16.

growing, the gap between the rich and poor is widening. What do

:48:17.:48:22.

numbers tell us? How do you measure inequality? And a large population

:48:23.:48:28.

of people? The LFC use a complicated formula shown inequality rising

:48:29.:48:35.

through the 1980s and then being stable and then reducing over the

:48:36.:48:40.

last few years, people getting less unequal. It seems to go against it.

:48:41.:48:45.

If we use a slightly different survey, the index wobbles stable,

:48:46.:48:48.

and if we use a different measure, the ratio of what the richest 10% in

:48:49.:48:55.

compared to what the poorest 10% own, that has been getting worse. It

:48:56.:49:04.

depends which statistic we use. We have seen a lot more fact checking

:49:05.:49:09.

features on websites and news programmes so has that made parties

:49:10.:49:14.

any more careful or honest about how they present figures? I think it's a

:49:15.:49:18.

fantastic development and is made people more cautious. We have the

:49:19.:49:25.

educational data lab, an organisation which took about the

:49:26.:49:29.

claims about how much it would cost to provide free school breakfasts

:49:30.:49:31.

for everyone so this is making people more cautious, particular as

:49:32.:49:37.

we have seen for the first time the numbers being challenged live on

:49:38.:49:42.

here. For your average voter who may not have a Ph.D. In statistics, what

:49:43.:49:47.

is the best way to tell fact from fiction? It's very difficult and I

:49:48.:49:52.

find it difficult myself but we need to be suspicious when people try to

:49:53.:49:57.

reduce a subtle complex issue like migration and inequality to a single

:49:58.:50:01.

number. That can be very misleading indeed. Beware of those sweeping

:50:02.:50:06.

claims? And targeting a single statistic. Thank you for joining us.

:50:07.:50:11.

Let's look at what's been happening elsewhere on the campaign with our

:50:12.:50:16.

daily round-up. You know that game we must speak without repetition,

:50:17.:50:22.

hesitation or deviation, politicians you might be surprised to find, are

:50:23.:50:30.

particular this, and here's our first contestant and their time

:50:31.:50:33.

starts now. I'm very clear that this

:50:34.:50:36.

is a crucial election... This Theresa May appearance

:50:37.:50:38.

in the south-west prompted the Plymouth Herald newspaper

:50:39.:50:40.

to claim it reminded them of a version of

:50:41.:50:42.

Radio 4's Just A Minute. A stronger, more

:50:43.:50:44.

prosperous future... "She had given me

:50:45.:50:45.

absolutely nothing"... Wrote the report

:50:46.:50:47.

after the interview. Talking to people with that

:50:48.:50:48.

very clear message... Turns out, getting inked wasn't

:50:49.:50:52.

to be for this Tory candidate On seeing what was on the window

:50:53.:50:55.

of this tattoo parlour Jacob Rees-Mogg remarked,

:50:56.:51:01.

"We shall have to take our Last night's Tim Farron

:51:02.:51:03.

versus Andrew Neil match I want you to address

:51:04.:51:10.

this simple point... Well, I'm trying to get

:51:11.:51:13.

you to answer the question, That's exactly what I am

:51:14.:51:17.

trying to do, Andrew. Presenters can just never get a word

:51:18.:51:21.

in edgeways these days. And as Nigel Farage

:51:22.:51:26.

took to the streets One voter offered a few

:51:27.:51:33.

thoughts on foreign aid. If I was to do that in my house,

:51:34.:51:38.

give next-door neighbour Lily some Donald Trump's withdrawal

:51:39.:51:42.

from the Paris climate agreement prompted this

:51:43.:51:47.

from Jeremy Corbyn this morning. Donald Trump's decision to pull

:51:48.:51:51.

the United States out of the Paris climate change deal

:51:52.:51:53.

is reckless and dangerous. And why have a general election

:51:54.:52:00.

when this could all be sorted out With less than a week to go,

:52:01.:52:03.

the communications union reckons it's the last chance saloon

:52:04.:52:08.

for the likes of bumbling Boris Johnson and Amber

:52:09.:52:11.

"the replacement" Rudd. Less than a week to go and we have a

:52:12.:52:28.

question Time debate this evening with Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.

:52:29.:52:31.

What advice would you have for Jeremy Corbyn? Carry on looking

:52:32.:52:39.

prime ministerial, being honest with people, people like his honesty but

:52:40.:52:43.

I think he has do now go beyond where it looks like labour is now in

:52:44.:52:47.

the high 30s. He has to begin to appeal to appeal to people who voted

:52:48.:52:52.

Conservative in the last two elections. Is the problem he is

:52:53.:52:55.

appealing to its core vote and will only pilot votes in already fairly

:52:56.:53:00.

secure Labour areas? 50% Labour in London at the moment, that the

:53:01.:53:05.

danger, but I also think it's down to locality, parts of the country.

:53:06.:53:11.

East of the A1, it is the Brexit thing, the Ukip thing is still

:53:12.:53:14.

there, but I think, in middle England constituencies, which Labour

:53:15.:53:21.

are trying to win, we can't mention individual names but places in the

:53:22.:53:27.

East Midlands, on the doorstep, what you are hearing is the manifesto

:53:28.:53:31.

pledges, above all, it's like an old vinyl record you rediscover for the

:53:32.:53:36.

can nationalise things, we can spend money on the NHS. Baby boomers,

:53:37.:53:42.

people like that. It raises the question which Amber Rudd brought

:53:43.:53:50.

home, where is the magic money tree? It's in the Bahamas, the rich no

:53:51.:53:54.

where the money is, it's in offshore tax havens. This campaign is not

:53:55.:54:01.

gone to plan, let's put it that way, for the Tories, has it? But

:54:02.:54:05.

narrowing of the gap in the polls between Labour and the Conservatives

:54:06.:54:09.

actually helps the Conservatives for two reasons, first of all, it makes

:54:10.:54:14.

the risk of Jeremy Corbyn actually being in Downing Street next Friday

:54:15.:54:18.

real, it brings at home to people and that will bring out the Tory

:54:19.:54:23.

vote. Secondly, if Jeremy Corbyn does better than Ed Miliband did,

:54:24.:54:26.

not in terms of seats but in popular vote, the benchmark he and his team

:54:27.:54:32.

have set, around 30%, still not great but better than Ed Miliband,

:54:33.:54:37.

if they do that, the chances are Jeremy Corbyn will hang on or be

:54:38.:54:40.

replaced by someone very similar with the same sort of policies.

:54:41.:54:44.

That's good for the Tories because so long as Labour are led by Jeremy

:54:45.:54:49.

Corbyn or someone like him, the Labour Party is unelectable so if

:54:50.:54:53.

that is what the outcome is this general election, a large majority

:54:54.:54:57.

for Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn is replaced by a clone, that is great.

:54:58.:55:02.

One problem has been making the whole campaign about leadership and

:55:03.:55:06.

being strong and stable and it has to some extent been the undoing of

:55:07.:55:09.

Theresa May and has played into Jeremy Corbyn? Let's see what

:55:10.:55:14.

happens next Thursday before entering on a postmortem but I think

:55:15.:55:18.

when people think who do we want negotiating on behalf of Britain in

:55:19.:55:22.

those difficult Brexit negotiations against 27 EU leaders, they would

:55:23.:55:28.

choose Theresa May? I think somebody who turns up. I think we want

:55:29.:55:32.

someone with moral courage because a strong and stable leader would have

:55:33.:55:36.

signed a joint declaration between the Italian Prime Minister and

:55:37.:55:39.

Angela Merkel last night, saying we reject what Donald Trump is done. I

:55:40.:55:44.

think people want a person with a moral centre to run this country and

:55:45.:55:47.

someone who has the courage to debate and answer journalists

:55:48.:55:51.

questions full from opposition politicians always have the

:55:52.:55:53.

advantage in not because they have nothing to lose. Theresa May has

:55:54.:55:59.

missed out on woman's hour, local radio interviews, and is there

:56:00.:56:02.

something wrong with that? Is she unwell? What is wrong with her? Are

:56:03.:56:09.

you really putting the question? She is being presidential but if you

:56:10.:56:12.

want to be presidential, we need answers as to why she is not turning

:56:13.:56:17.

up to these things? You are raising the Prime Minister's health as a

:56:18.:56:22.

question? What is wrong with Theresa May that you can't go live? She is

:56:23.:56:26.

doing a debate tonight with Jeremy Corbyn. They did it with Hillary

:56:27.:56:33.

Clinton so why not Theresa May? You have a blind spot on this. One of

:56:34.:56:38.

the reasons many traditional Labour voters can't bring themselves to

:56:39.:56:42.

vote for a Jeremy Corbyn Labour Party is pricey because they think

:56:43.:56:47.

he lacks the moral compass. Some of a moral compass would not have

:56:48.:56:50.

invited representatives of the IRA to party at the House of Commons

:56:51.:56:55.

days after they tried to kill Prime Minister this country, and describe

:56:56.:57:01.

a terrorist organisation like how Mass as his friends. It is the lack

:57:02.:57:06.

of a moral compass, someone would not have put Rees on the grave of

:57:07.:57:12.

one of the terrorists who killed the Israeli athletes at the Montreal

:57:13.:57:19.

Olympic Games. Does this go to the character of Jeremy Corbyn? For the

:57:20.:57:22.

millions of people who voted Labour all their lives, people who believe

:57:23.:57:27.

we are part of a movement at the very core and fabric of this

:57:28.:57:33.

democracy we live in, we feel utterly insulted by what you have

:57:34.:57:36.

just said. Why because it's not true? Is it true? Someone who

:57:37.:57:45.

supports terror. What you are trying to do here is Samir an entire half

:57:46.:57:53.

the UK as terrorists, culpable for Manchester -- smear. We are talking

:57:54.:57:56.

about the man who wants to be Prime Minister. Are the claim is true?

:57:57.:58:01.

None of it is to. He didn't meet members of the IRA, and Sinn Fein?

:58:02.:58:12.

Sinn Fein is a party. Margaret Thatcher negotiated with them. Not

:58:13.:58:20.

days after they tried to kill her. Margaret Thatcher negotiated with

:58:21.:58:25.

the IRA. Can I'd just say one final thing, in terms of the manifesto

:58:26.:58:28.

very briefly with Labour, is the problem Jeremy Corbyn does not

:58:29.:58:33.

believe what is in the manifesto and he has agreed to go with a

:58:34.:58:35.

collective view rather than his personal view? Jeremy Corbyn will

:58:36.:58:42.

lead a Government that will press the button if necessary and will do

:58:43.:58:48.

the things we are committed to. We are going to die but quickly to the

:58:49.:58:56.

quiz. Whose feet are in that poster? Sam Cam and David. How do you know?

:58:57.:59:05.

Well done, you are right. It is the Camerons who post with their feet.

:59:06.:59:07.

Particularly to you two for being our bests guests of the day.

:59:08.:59:17.

Andrew will be on BBC One on Sunday with Sunday Politics, where he'll be

:59:18.:59:20.

talking to former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg.

:59:21.:59:22.

And I'll be here again on Monday for more Daily Politics -

:59:23.:59:26.

Jo Coburn is joined by guests including journalists Toby Young and Paul Mason to discuss immigration targets, climate change and the latest developments in the general election campaigns.


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