06/06/2017 Daily Politics


06/06/2017

Jo Coburn is joined by Green Party co-leader Jonathan Bartley to discuss the latest general election news including Boris Johnson's speech on Brexit and trade.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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The Mayor of London, Labour's Sadiq Khan,

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warns cuts to the Met Police could make it harder

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to foil terror attacks, the Conservatives say police numbers

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"remain high", as the parties argue over how best to protect

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The Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson says Britain's destiny is to be

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friends and partners with the rest of the world, as he sets out

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the Conservatives' plan for new trade deals after Brexit.

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Could the Conservatives make gains in Wales,

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at the expense of Labour, in the election on Thursday?

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We're on the campaign trail in Wrexham.

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Imagine we were halfway through the working week already.

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We've brought the mood box to Bristol to test out

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the Greens' policy of a three-day weekend for everyone.

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I would love to have a three-day weekend but I'm

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thinking does that mean a lot of my money's going

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

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of the programme today is Jonathan Bartley,

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But first, the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has warned

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that the Metropolitan Police is facing the loss of thousands

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of front line officers, under Conservative spending plans.

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Mr Khan says Scotland Yard could lose up to 40% of its constables -

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making it harder to prevent future terror attacks.

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Under a renewed Theresa May government, as a consequence of the

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cuts to our policing budget, we'd have fewer police officers,

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and all the experts tell me, by the way, that one of the

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ways we counter terrorism is by fantastic police in the community.

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Members of the community of all backgrounds report intelligence to

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police officers in the community, they pass it on and it helps keep

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There's no doubt fewer police officers means we're in more danger.

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The Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson rejected

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the Labour criticism, defending the Government's record

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on spending on the police and security services.

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I have to say I think first of all that is wrong.

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Police numbers in London have remained high.

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And, secondly, we protected police budgets in 2015 and the Labour

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Party, as I recall, actually wanted to cut them by 10%.

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But all that argument detracts from the

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responsibility of these scumbags for what they have done and we should

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Boris Johnson. In the last hour of the Metropolitan Police have said

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they believed the third London Bridge attacker was Youssef Zaghba,

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a Moroccan Italian man who was not a subject of interest to the police or

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MI5. We're joined now by our Assistant

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Political Editor, Norman Smith. How damaging is this continuing row

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over numbers of the police and security services and resources in

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general in terms of the Government? I think it is damaging because it

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just stops to reason me getting onto the agenda she wanted to focus on in

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the last days of the campaign. She wants it to be about Brexit and yet

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again and again when she is out and about what she is challenged over is

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this reduction in police numbers, and why it matters so much is

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because it is very personal to Theresa May. She was Home Secretary,

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she provided over this cut in police numbers of around 20,000. The other

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thing that strikes me about it is it is a very simple concept for voters

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to grasp, it's not one of these much more difficult issues like the

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social care cap and the U-turn over that. A cut of police numbers is a

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very simple idea to get hold of. The last thing that I think compounds

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the difficulties Theresa May faces is the reluctance to openly concede

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that, yes, she has presided over a significant cut in police numbers.

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We saw that to some extent with the social care row with Theresa May

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unwilling to admit there had been a U-turn and that grates with voters

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and they find it exasperating that Theresa May is unable to concede

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what is a fact, police numbers have been cut. What about full Labour? Is

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very difficulty on the doorstep for Labour candidates if there is an

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impression that Jeremy Corbyn is viewed as soft on terror because he

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hadn't voted in favour of numerous counts of terrorism legislation?

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That clearly is the hope and calculation of the Conservatives,

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who today have tried to sort of shift the focus onto Mr Corbyn and

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Diane Abbott's own record and their opposition to previous anti-terror

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legislation. I think it's harder for them frankly

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when you have individuals like Sadiq Khan coming out with this very stark

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suggestion that it's not just historic police cuts at the Met has

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to face ongoing police cuts, he says of around 400 million or more, which

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he says could mean a reduction of between 10%-40% of the total police

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forceful stop it is harder to be so dismissive of a figure like Sadiq

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Khan, in part because Theresa May and others have come out and

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publicly praised him for his handling in the aftermath of the

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terror attack. Norman Smith, thank you.

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We've been joined from Bristol by the former

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Conservative Chief Whip, Mark Harper, and from Birmingham

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Welcome to both of you gentlemen. Mark Harper, first of all. We have

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seen one of the terrorists involved in the Saturday's attack was

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previously featured in a programme quite recently last year called The

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Jihadis Next Door and had been reported to the authorities. This

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does now look to be a pretty extreme case of hiding in plain sight. What

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went wrong in your mind? I listened to what Mark Rowley said this

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morning, the head of the counterterrorism command, and I

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think I'm right in clear, saying he made it clear the Metropolitan

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Police investigated this particular individual and obviously looked at

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all the evidence, and they couldn't find any evidence that he was

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involved in planning a terrorist attack of any description. I believe

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they then placed him in a group of individuals who they keep, who they

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are alert to, and keep an eye on, but it he hadn't been planning

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anything. They did the investigation and I believe he set that out

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clearly this morning. People find that difficult to take bearing in

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mind what has happened and the fact he's been identified, when many of

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our viewers saw him in this television documentary. It was in

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2016 last year on Channel 4 News am aware he's shown quite clearly in

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the company of people who would be deemed to be a threat to security.

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You have got legislation, of course, in place that makes organisations,

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proscribed organisations, being banned, or the glorification of

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terrorism and offence. So should he have been a high up priority for the

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security services? Look, I don't know what information the security

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services had available to them. Generally they perform very well and

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have foiled 18 plots over the last three years. One of the things the

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Prime Minister set out after the terrible events of the weekend in

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London is that we do need to do more to deal with people on extremism.

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What, though? What concrete things could you do more than have put this

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man, Khuram Butt, on a list high up priority for the security services?

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One of the challenges here, this is why it's not an easy matter to deal

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with, is my understanding is he hadn't committed any criminal

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offences, and so the challenge for the law-enforcement bodies is how

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you deal with people who you believe might be a threat but haven't yet

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done anything. That is why we have the terrorism and orders which can

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keep people under certain restrictions. They are barely used,

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Mark Harper. They've been used seven times and the list says there are

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23,000 people who are a potential risk. But you do have to have some

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evidence to be able to go before a judge to put those in place, one of

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the things the Prime Minister wants to look at. That is why we had in

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our manifesto before any of these terrorist outrages this new

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countering extremism panel that we want to set up to bring forward

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those ideas. We have a range of powers that we can use to deal with

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people, the Prime Minister when Home Secretary banned more hate preachers

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from coming to the United Kingdom than any previous Home Secretary,

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thus keeping people out of Great Britain people would try and inspire

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the sort of terrorism and those are the sort of measures. There is no

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single magic solution, you have to put in a range of measures,

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strengthening sentences for people committing terrorism, looking at the

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TPim regime and continuing to invest in counterterrorism. Let me put this

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to Jack Dromey. It's true, isn't it, if Khuram Butt had not committed are

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crime and if there was no evidence he would commit an attack, what

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could have been done to apprehend a method of the attack?. Two issues,

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one of powers and one of resources. On the issue of powers we put in

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order when in government control orders which were much more

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effective. The Conservative Party weekend of that, this TPims regime

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that was hardly used and that was wrong. The second thing is crucially

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resources, Cressida Dick yesterday was right to make the point, the new

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commission of the Metropolitan Police. Simple reality the

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Conservative Party and Theresa May in particular will not face up to is

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that they have cut 20,000 police officers. We have 1000 fewer

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firearms officers than in 2010. Lenny Pidgeley up on the issue of

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powers because you refer to the last Labour government but we need to

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look at the current Labour leadership. How many people do my

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pieces of anti-terror legislation has Jeremy Corbyn supported? Since

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Jeremy Corbyn has been leader can I give two examples? No, can you

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answer the question on anti-terror legislation. Since 2000 which pieces

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of terror legislation has Jeremy Corbyn supported? I will answer, he

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has supported, Keir Starmer, myself and Andy Burnham together as the

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front bench team took through, in partnership with the government, the

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Investigatory Powers Bill, now the investigatory Powers act, giving to

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the police significantly greater powers to monitor terrorist

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suspects. The second example called the dark laws, we persuaded the

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government to change the law so that in future if somebody was arrested

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on suspicion of terrorism they didn't escape the country but

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instead their passport is confiscated and they are kept under

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surveillance. In terms of practical measures that is exactly the kind of

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thing we have done. Except Jeremy Corbyn has proudly voted against 17

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separate anti-terrorism laws over the course of his career. He called

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for Hamas to be removed from the list are prescribed terror groups

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and said Britain -- Brits shouldn't be banned from returning from

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fighting with Isis. When people look at that record they will say under

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Labour, and Corbyn nothing would have been done about Khuram Butt and

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in fact in 2014, Jack Dromey, he said in the House of Commons I have

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no support for Isas whatsoever and obviously that should apply to

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somebody who has committed crimes, but we must bear in mind expressing

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a political point of view is not in itself an offence. The commission of

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the criminal act is clearly a different matter but expressing a

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point of view, even unpalatable, is sometimes quite important in a

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democracy, so he wouldn't have locked up the people involved in

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this offence. I've given two practical examples of exactly what

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he has supported us doing. He has led in doing since being leader in

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2015. Crucially, this is what the public want right now, they want to

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see more police officers back on the beat. They want to see the

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rebuilding of neighbourhood policing, which Mark Rowley

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mentioned earlier on, thick Head of Counter Terrorism has made

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abundantly clear, is the eyes and ears of counterterrorism. They want

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to see more firearms officers in the Metropolitan Police and nationwide.

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I think what we have got to do is to focus right now on what is crucial,

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great national unity to oppose and defeat terrorism, but then it is

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about the powers necessary and resources to do it. Do you think

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your front bench team need to know the powers and recommendations that

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have been made by people within your team? The report commissioned by

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Sadiq Khan, Toby Harris did a report into how to keep London safe. It had

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a list of recommendations for the Metropolitan Police, and yet Diane

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Abbott, the Shadow Home Secretary, couldn't recall those

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recommendations. Do you think that inspires confidence? It was a good

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report ranging from operational measures... Why couldn't she

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remember it? Let me finish, on the other hand fully funding the

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Metropolitan Police and Ambulance Service in London. I didn't see the

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interview so I cannot comment on it. Let me say because that's the

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question I am asking, because Diane Abbott wants to be Home Secretary,

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she couldn't recall the report at all, it was done last year and was

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commissioned by the Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan. As I say, do you

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think her failure to recall that will inspire confidence and is that

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the reason she's not going to take part in the Woman's Hour debate

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today? Again, I can't comment about today because I understand Diane is

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ill. Forgive me if I say this, right now is not the time to engage in the

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wrong kind of party politics. Right now what we have got to focus on...

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Are you not engaging in party politics? No our nation is under

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threat from a uniquely awful brand of terrorism and we need a national

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unity to defeat that and crucially that does mean both powers and

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resources. Can I ask mark this question? Will you can see today

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what Theresa May refused to concede yesterday? We have seen 20,000 fewer

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police officers under her as Home Secretary and now Prime Minister,

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1000 fewer armed officers. It looks like Jack is bidding for your job. I

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read Toby Harris's report that Jo referred to about London's

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preparedness. We will come back to the issue of numbers in the second

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but answer the question first and then we will talk about numbers.

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Toby Harris is a Labour peer. He wrote this report last October, and

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he said over the five years that he had stopped being involved in London

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policing and writing that report, he said that the resources available

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meant that the response in London would have been better than that

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from five years previously. What that says to me, and looking at the

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professionalism and dedication of our police officers at the weekend,

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is the Met does have the resources. We have protected the

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counterterrorism budget. Jack, when you were on the home affairs team in

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the automotive that -- the autumn, the police said they could deal with

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a further 5%-10% cut in their budget. George Osborne who was the

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Chancellor made it clear that not only would we not cut the police

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budget but we would protect it and we have done since 2015 and we are

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increasing funding for armed officers and have also protected the

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counterterrorism budget and we are hiring more specialists to work in

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our excellent security services, and I know well as a Gloucestershire

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candidate about GCHQ at Cheltenham. Let Jack Dromey respond and also to

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Lord Carlisle's point, the former review of intelligence legislation,

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said it's not about more community police officers which is what the

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Labour Party is calling He is a distinguished review of

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that. Mark Rowley and then Commissioner Bernard Hogan Howe,

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going back to the 2015 Mark, on top of the 25% cut in your first five

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years of government, your government came within 36 hours of a further

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32% cut. One of the things which was key in changing the mind of the

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government, we work closely with the police to oppose that proposal, was

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a letter from Mark Rowley, to the Home Secretary, in which he said

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numbers were vital. Including neighbourhood policing because it is

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absolutely essential to intelligence. It is what the public

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wants to hear at the moment. They want to be reassured that there

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aren't going to be, at the very least, further cuts. What do you say

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to Sadiq Khan who says the force could lose as many as 12,000

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officers, which would reduce its strength by 40%, making it harder to

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tackle terrorism? I would look at our record since 2015. We've

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protected the police Budget. When the then Chancellor protected that.

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Not true. Andy Burnham was arguing that the police could manage with a

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five to 10% cut. George Osborne made it clear that we were protecting the

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police Budget. That was a decision by the then Chancellor, George

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Osborne, and the then Home Secretary, Theresa May. Not true.

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Hang on, Jack, please don't talk over. With increased the Budget for

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counterterrorism, which is... Not true... He has dealt with the events

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over the last couple of weeks. We've also invested the resources in our

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security services. Which is coming back to your question, which is

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monitoring these appalling individuals at making sure, as they

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have done over the last three years, they can continue falling the plot

:18:19.:18:22.

of those individuals which wish to do us harm. I have to finish. Sorry,

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Jack, we have run out of time. Jonathan Hartley joined us, as well.

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-- joins us. This morning the Conservatives have

:18:36.:18:38.

outlined proposals for boosting The party, which intends to take

:18:39.:18:40.

Britain out of the EU's single market and customs union,

:18:41.:18:44.

says Brexit will allow Britain to seek bilateral trade deals

:18:45.:18:46.

with "old friends and new allies" The plan, which is being outlined

:18:47.:18:49.

today by Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, would see the government

:18:50.:18:52.

establish a global network of nine While we don't yet know the regions

:18:53.:18:55.

where the commissioners will be based, the Foreign Secretary has

:18:56.:19:03.

previously talked of striking trade deals with the likes of the US,

:19:04.:19:06.

India and Australia. The nine commissioners will be part

:19:07.:19:08.

of a new Board of Trade to help increase exports and attract foreign

:19:09.:19:12.

investment in the UK. But not everybody is on board,

:19:13.:19:14.

with the Liberal Democrats saying a UK Board of Trade -

:19:15.:19:16.

an institution that has its roots in the 17th century -

:19:17.:19:19.

is an "outdated" idea "probably Meanwhile, Labour says it's focused

:19:20.:19:22.

on maintaining tariff-free access Speaking earlier today,

:19:23.:19:26.

the Foreign Secretary said. In the biggest popular

:19:27.:19:40.

mandate ever delivered in our history, the British people

:19:41.:19:44.

voted to leave the European Union, and we voted to take back control

:19:45.:19:48.

of our cash and our borders, and above all of our lawmaking

:19:49.:19:51.

system. To put the British people back

:19:52.:19:53.

in the driving seat of To give us the freedom once again

:19:54.:19:56.

to negotiate our own trade deals, to take back control of our economic

:19:57.:20:01.

destiny, and to build on the extraordinary traditions

:20:02.:20:03.

of this country as a global Britain, trading nation that looks not

:20:04.:20:06.

just our friends in Europe Jonathan Bartley is also here. Post

:20:07.:20:25.

Brexit the Greens must want the UK to make the most of all of the

:20:26.:20:30.

economic opportunities available. I presume you agree with much of what

:20:31.:20:33.

Boris Johnson has said. The obvious way to make the most of those

:20:34.:20:38.

economic benefit is to stay in the single market. No-brainer. But if we

:20:39.:20:44.

are going to go down that route, I think we need to watch out for the

:20:45.:20:47.

very weak bargaining position we will put ourselves in. Why is it

:20:48.:20:54.

weak? Seeing Theresa May go cap in hand to Donald Trump. Rolling over

:20:55.:20:57.

on raising climate change with the president on the phone after the

:20:58.:21:02.

Paris agreement. She seems to be unable to carry any favour with the

:21:03.:21:06.

president. We will be in a weak situation, going to the President,

:21:07.:21:10.

what will that mean? Probably Trump will come to us and say you can have

:21:11.:21:14.

a particular style of agreement which will have investor states,

:21:15.:21:20.

which will open up our public services to potential competition

:21:21.:21:24.

from American corporations. We will have a privatisation of our health

:21:25.:21:27.

service and other public services. That is worrying. Except the

:21:28.:21:31.

government says it isn't on the table, terms of opening up to's

:21:32.:21:36.

public services. What is on the table? This idea of creating nine

:21:37.:21:41.

new commissioner jobs. This may prove to be lovely in the future

:21:42.:21:45.

when Brexit is being negotiated. But it is nothing more than window

:21:46.:21:50.

dressing, isn't it? It's important. The important thing about the rest

:21:51.:21:54.

of the world outside the EU, that is where the world is growing fastest

:21:55.:21:56.

in where we need to take advantage of those trade opportunities. Why it

:21:57.:22:00.

is important comes back to the discussion we just had. If you want

:22:01.:22:06.

to have good national security, strong defences, strong policing,

:22:07.:22:09.

you have got to have a strong economy in order to pay for all of

:22:10.:22:13.

these things. As we leave the European Union, which was voted for

:22:14.:22:17.

by the public strongly last year as the Foreign Secretary said, we need

:22:18.:22:20.

to make the most of both the could deal with the EU, and those bricks

:22:21.:22:24.

that negotiations will start 11 days after the election, which is why we

:22:25.:22:28.

need a strong government led by Theresa May to land that the deal.

:22:29.:22:33.

-- and those Brexit negotiations. We need to make opportunities from

:22:34.:22:37.

other parts of the world. Let's talk about those. Jonathan Bartley raises

:22:38.:22:41.

the issue of Theresa May being week in effect in her dealings with Tom

:22:42.:22:48.

-- dealings with Trump, for example? Will private sector involvement in

:22:49.:22:54.

public services happen here? The Prime Minister was asked this

:22:55.:22:58.

question. She made it clear that our NHS is not for sale. She was not

:22:59.:23:04.

weak. I was listening to Jonathan. She had a phone call with President

:23:05.:23:09.

Trump last week. She made it clear she was disappointed by his decision

:23:10.:23:13.

about the Paris climate change accord. She made it clear that

:23:14.:23:17.

wasn't our policy. She will do her best to try and persuade the

:23:18.:23:20.

Americans to come back to the table. Let's ask Jonathan Bartley. That was

:23:21.:23:26.

one of his campaign promises he was delivering. The PM made it clear we

:23:27.:23:30.

didn't support it. She made it clear, what more could she do? It

:23:31.:23:35.

was a campaign policy. He is doing something many presidents fail to

:23:36.:23:39.

do, keep their promises. When she went to see Trump, marched

:23:40.:23:42.

hand-in-hand with him, she should have been raising this to the top.

:23:43.:23:49.

And also to express a big disappointment because this is the

:23:50.:23:53.

challenge coming on in the next 20 to 30 years. There won't be any

:23:54.:23:57.

trade agreement if we don't have some change to climate -- if we

:23:58.:24:04.

don't have some sort of commitment to climate change. What about the

:24:05.:24:09.

tweets from Donald Trump to Sadiq Khan over the terrorist attack, and

:24:10.:24:13.

how it has been dealt with subsequently? Should Theresa May be

:24:14.:24:18.

on the phone to him, telling him to keep out of Britain's affairs?

:24:19.:24:25.

First, the PM has made sure the government has been working with the

:24:26.:24:29.

Mayor Blunden at the Met police. The Prime Minister has more than enough

:24:30.:24:35.

to do keeping Britain safe. -- of the Mayor of London and the

:24:36.:24:41.

Metropolitan Police. She has the priorities straight. She's focusing

:24:42.:24:46.

on keeping Britain say. And if she is successful getting re-elected,

:24:47.:24:49.

getting down to the Brexit negotiations, to make a success of

:24:50.:24:55.

them. Don't you think this is a bigoted Islamophobic president, who

:24:56.:24:58.

would single out Sadiq Khan, but would not go over Andy Burnham in

:24:59.:25:05.

Manchester? If we are going to be able to influence the American

:25:06.:25:08.

government. That's what we want to do. We want to maintain our strong

:25:09.:25:12.

position in Nato. And persuade them to do the right thing. I don't think

:25:13.:25:15.

throwing insults about is the right thing. That is not what I was doing.

:25:16.:25:20.

The most sensible thing is that the PM to have a constructive

:25:21.:25:23.

conversation. Make it clear she didn't agree with his decision on

:25:24.:25:26.

the Paris climate change are caught. But continue having that I look to

:25:27.:25:30.

persuade the American government to come back to the table. -- on the

:25:31.:25:37.

Paris climate change accord. Let's move on to one of the other

:25:38.:25:39.

countries in the world you perhaps would want to do a trade deal with

:25:40.:25:45.

after Brexit. Particularly India. There is a potential problem there,

:25:46.:25:49.

as well, because the Indians made it clear they would like more visas for

:25:50.:25:53.

Indian workers as part of a trade deal, for example. We know Theresa

:25:54.:25:58.

May is committed, if the Tories win the election, to reducing net

:25:59.:26:02.

migration to tens of thousands. The Australians have said the same. How

:26:03.:26:07.

are you going to manage that? Visas are always part of a conversation

:26:08.:26:11.

with trade deals. We already have a large number of Indian students. But

:26:12.:26:15.

they want more. We can have that discussion. Our net migration target

:26:16.:26:21.

is a net migration target India is a very large market. I would expect,

:26:22.:26:26.

if we were to conclude trade negotiations, you might well see

:26:27.:26:29.

Indians coming to Britain, but you would also see big economic

:26:30.:26:35.

opportunities for British companies working in India, and opportunities

:26:36.:26:38.

for British business people actually going to work in India. In their

:26:39.:26:43.

businesses. You have these negotiations. You will talk about

:26:44.:26:49.

trade opportunities, migration, our fabulous offer for our excellent

:26:50.:26:52.

university sector, which is second to none in the world, which the

:26:53.:26:56.

government has always been supportive of. It seems to be a

:26:57.:27:02.

strong global offer. There will have to be compromised in any negotiation

:27:03.:27:05.

you have. The Green party manifesto says we will be actively campaigning

:27:06.:27:10.

to safeguard jobs, uphold basic rights and put environment

:27:11.:27:12.

protection at the heart of any future trade deals. A rather

:27:13.:27:15.

protectionist approach, isn't it? Is it going to be practical when

:27:16.:27:22.

compromises need to be made? Compromises are important. Just

:27:23.:27:26.

going back to that point... Answer the question about the manifesto. We

:27:27.:27:29.

have already talked about Sadiq Khan. Until Donald Trump apologises

:27:30.:27:34.

to Sadiq Khan he shouldn't be allowed a state visit here. The

:27:35.:27:37.

compromises this government are making, the example exporting arms

:27:38.:27:44.

to Saudi Arabia, a huge export market, two thirds of our arms go to

:27:45.:27:48.

the Middle East. Is this the kind of trade we want in the future? Is this

:27:49.:27:53.

the leadership we will show the world? We shouldn't be making this

:27:54.:27:56.

compromise. Compromises should be made, but not that kind. You

:27:57.:28:00.

comfortable continuing trade relations with Saudi Arabia? Yes.

:28:01.:28:08.

Saudi Arabia is a partner in combating extremism. Our

:28:09.:28:11.

intelligence services receive valuable information from the Saudis

:28:12.:28:15.

which enables us to take steps to help keep Britain safe, which I

:28:16.:28:21.

think is important. Why has a report into funding streams, commissioned

:28:22.:28:24.

by David Cameron as part of an agreement with the Lib Dems during

:28:25.:28:27.

the coalition government, why hasn't it been published yet? I don't know.

:28:28.:28:33.

I a backbench member. I haven't seen a report. Do you think it has been

:28:34.:28:39.

suppressed? I don't think so, I genuinely don't know. I don't know

:28:40.:28:42.

what is in the report and I don't know what is in it. Do you think it

:28:43.:28:46.

should be published? Hang on, I'm going to say thank you and goodbye.

:28:47.:28:48.

Thanks very much. The question for today is who have

:28:49.:28:50.

society magazine, Tatler, named as their poshest candidate

:28:51.:28:55.

to be Prime Minister? Is it a) Theresa May,

:28:56.:28:57.

b) Tim Farron, c) Jeremy Corbyn, At the end of the show Jonathan

:28:58.:29:00.

will give us the correct answer. Let's get a round-up

:29:01.:29:05.

of all the other campaign Paul Nuttall, the Ukip leader, has

:29:06.:29:18.

just finished giving a major speech in central London. I'm told it was

:29:19.:29:22.

his final round of the campaign. He said Ukip ad-libbed the agenda on

:29:23.:29:27.

immigration and Brexit. He also said there were 200 seats Ukip were not

:29:28.:29:31.

contesting for in this election. He said of those only a handful would

:29:32.:29:35.

be the ones where he would suggest people vote for the Labour Party.

:29:36.:29:39.

One and a half days until polling day, he is not the only one out on

:29:40.:29:40.

the campaign trail... Nick Clegg has also been giving

:29:41.:29:42.

a speech this morning, describing Brexit talks as being

:29:43.:29:45.

a bit like a circus. Negotiating Brexit is going

:29:46.:29:47.

to be a tightrope act. The Lib Dem leader,

:29:48.:29:52.

meanwhile, was on a Question Time special last night talking

:29:53.:29:54.

about farming, sorry, security. What we have at the

:29:55.:29:58.

moment, if you like, is an ever widening haystack

:29:59.:30:00.

and we're looking for a needle. And the answer is not

:30:01.:30:04.

put more hay into the haystack, it is to put more magnets

:30:05.:30:07.

around the haystack we can actually find what's in there

:30:08.:30:10.

in the first place. The SNP's leader Nicola Sturgeon,

:30:11.:30:13.

who prepared for the same programme with a spot of aerobics,

:30:14.:30:15.

was grilled on the timing of a I'm absolutely not proposing it now,

:30:16.:30:18.

I accept that point. At the end of the process

:30:19.:30:28.

when we know the terms of Brexit. Well, I don't know that because I'm

:30:29.:30:32.

not in charge of the process. # You'll get accountability #

:30:33.:30:37.

With Conservative delivery.# And is this the greatest election

:30:38.:30:43.

video of the campaign? No, probably not, because apparently

:30:44.:30:45.

Greg Knight does this Another Tory who is not happy

:30:46.:30:49.

with the sound of music in her patch, the Christian

:30:50.:30:57.

candidate Maria Caulfield, has accused her opponents

:30:58.:30:58.

of being very offensive and preaching hate by dressing up

:30:59.:31:00.

as nuns and singing, "How do you solve

:31:01.:31:03.

a problem like Maria?" The secretive graffiti artist came

:31:04.:31:05.

up with a rather off the wall idea of offering free prints of his work

:31:06.:31:16.

to people who could prove The only problems, the police

:31:17.:31:19.

wondered if it might be bribery and it's an offence to take a photo

:31:20.:31:23.

of your ballot paper. Like many of his most popular works,

:31:24.:31:26.

the idea has been taken down. Presumably to be sold

:31:27.:31:29.

for millions at auction. There is just one campaign round-up

:31:30.:31:35.

to go. We will be back tomorrow. Let's talk now to the Kevin Maguire

:31:36.:31:39.

of the Mirror, and Rosa Prince, who has written a biography

:31:40.:31:43.

of Theresa May. Please hold onto that umbrella.

:31:44.:31:57.

Rosa, this was supposed to be the Brexit election and it has ended up

:31:58.:32:04.

being the security -- about security because of the dreadful attacks in

:32:05.:32:07.

Manchester and London. What effect has that had on the campaigns? It

:32:08.:32:11.

has had a huge impact on Theresa May. This was supposed to be her

:32:12.:32:15.

gliding through to victory. She called the election, thinking it

:32:16.:32:19.

would give her the mandate to negotiate in Brussels. Instead it

:32:20.:32:22.

has become about her leadership. She is under pressure about her record

:32:23.:32:27.

as Home Secretary, which she has never had to defend. She has never

:32:28.:32:30.

actually been at the forefront of an election campaign before. I think

:32:31.:32:33.

she's finding it hard when the pressure is on. Everything has not

:32:34.:32:38.

gone her way. What I learnt when I wrote the book about her, although

:32:39.:32:41.

she's good at holding it together when things are going well, she get

:32:42.:32:45.

rattled when she feels like she isn't in control. She likes to be in

:32:46.:32:50.

charge, in control, and I think she is suffering. What is going to

:32:51.:32:54.

happen, Kevin, in these final days? happen in the final days to polling

:32:55.:33:00.

day? It's getting even noisier, each side will go for the other. We have

:33:01.:33:04.

seen the attacks stepping up over security on Labour but in some ways

:33:05.:33:07.

they are backfiring because the issue keeps coming back of the

:33:08.:33:10.

20,000 fewer police officers, more than 1000 fewer firearms officers,

:33:11.:33:17.

15,000 other staff in the police force, and community officers, they

:33:18.:33:21.

are not there now. It is not such a strong card for the Conservatives as

:33:22.:33:25.

they thought in the past. Labour's trying to keep pushing the fact that

:33:26.:33:29.

austerity has run down public services and wants people to vote

:33:30.:33:35.

for change. Somehow Labour has got to say if you want the change you

:33:36.:33:44.

can trust in our change. Theresa May has talked a lot about strong and

:33:45.:34:02.

stable leadership. Polling was pretty dreadful for Jeremy Corbyn at

:34:03.:34:03.

the start of the campaign. The close scrutiny of an election campaign can

:34:04.:34:04.

shine an unflattering light on the key players, count-out? That's

:34:05.:34:06.

right. When she was elected everyone around her seemed to be falling

:34:07.:34:08.

apart and she seemed like the only grown up there. She was anointed

:34:09.:34:10.

overnight and suddenly became Prime Minister without really being tested

:34:11.:34:13.

or challenged in the way most leaders are through a leadership

:34:14.:34:17.

contest. And then I think most people would say she had a pretty

:34:18.:34:20.

good first ten months, she seemed in charge and quite solid, and there

:34:21.:34:25.

was no reason to believe that that would change, particularly when she

:34:26.:34:30.

felt she was going up against Jeremy Corbyn who Conservative strategists,

:34:31.:34:32.

presumably like most commentators felt, was one of the weaker

:34:33.:34:36.

candidates Labour had put forward at a general election. It didn't quite

:34:37.:34:41.

turn out like that. This election has put a pressure on Theresa May

:34:42.:34:47.

and she hasn't coped with it that well, on the other hand Jeremy

:34:48.:34:49.

Corbyn's two years of leadership have seen him often put under

:34:50.:34:52.

pressure and perhaps he has got used to it and has stood up to it well.

:34:53.:34:57.

Or is it, Kevin Maguire, that Jeremy Corbyn is seen on the campaign trail

:34:58.:35:01.

in areas which are very strong for Labour already? He is appealing to

:35:02.:35:07.

young people, who may not turn out to vote in terms of their track

:35:08.:35:12.

record in the past. And he is shoring up Labour's support, piling

:35:13.:35:16.

up the votes in seats they have already got, which doesn't mean he's

:35:17.:35:18.

going to get any closer to winning on June the 9th. He didn't go to

:35:19.:35:24.

strong Labour areas such as the north-east of England, if he didn't

:35:25.:35:29.

go there he would be accused of neglecting them and taking them for

:35:30.:35:32.

granted which is why he has to go there and that's why Theresa May

:35:33.:35:35.

goes to conservative areas. She has been in the north-west, she's been

:35:36.:35:39.

in areas you wouldn't normally see a Conservative leader, whereas Jeremy

:35:40.:35:42.

Corbyn has not been too marginal seats. I reckon in every general

:35:43.:35:46.

election the Conservative leader has gone to the north-west at some time.

:35:47.:35:50.

You are quite right, though, that Jeremy Corbyn is relying on young

:35:51.:35:52.

people to come out and vote for the elderly but neglect

:35:53.:36:05.

the young. He's relying on them turning out. It may be a gamble that

:36:06.:36:10.

fails but he's giving it a go. The story of this campaign, whatever the

:36:11.:36:14.

result on Thursday, when we find out on Friday whoever is in Downing

:36:15.:36:19.

Street, is during the campaign people have seen Jeremy Corbyn

:36:20.:36:21.

uncut, not the caricature often presented to them, and more people

:36:22.:36:25.

have liked him and he has risen, she has fallen, she looks frazzled, and

:36:26.:36:29.

it's her leadership that is shot now. Both of you grab some shelter,

:36:30.:37:11.

get out of the rain and enjoy the last few

:37:12.:37:39.

For some people Brexit and immigration are key election issues.

:37:40.:37:48.

Ukip has achieved what they wanted. I'm now turning to is conservative.

:37:49.:37:51.

I want to be proud of my country again. -- I'm now turning to the

:37:52.:37:58.

Conservatives. I've always voted for Labour. The only do I like his

:37:59.:38:02.

Chelsea football club. There has been a Labour MP representing this

:38:03.:38:06.

area for about 18 years. But the Conservatives claim came a close

:38:07.:38:15.

second last time. -- the Conservatives came a close second

:38:16.:38:19.

last time. I know it is a tough fight. Had he been critical of

:38:20.:38:23.

Jeremy Corbyn in the past? You called for his resignation after the

:38:24.:38:26.

EU referendum result. Why should people vote for you, and therefore

:38:27.:38:32.

Jeremy Corbyn as a potential Prime Minister? Because I am a candidate

:38:33.:38:35.

in Wrexham. I've been here for 16 years. There have been five leaders

:38:36.:38:41.

of both the Conservative and Labour Party in that time. It is about who

:38:42.:38:44.

represents Wrexham in parliament The Conservative

:38:45.:38:48.

candidate's day job, he's a window cleaner, and he's

:38:49.:38:50.

hoping to wipe away the Labour A couple of weeks

:38:51.:38:53.

ago he welcomed the Prime Minister to Wrexham to launch

:38:54.:38:56.

the Welsh Conservative manifesto. But the event was overshadowed by

:38:57.:39:00.

Theresa May announcing amendments to It could have been anywhere

:39:01.:39:02.

in Wales, she chose Wrexham. We've had a lot of positive

:39:03.:39:11.

feedback on that. And as you say, on the day

:39:12.:39:16.

there was talks of U-turns She didn't have to put that

:39:17.:39:19.

in the manifesto, if you like, but she put it there to actually

:39:20.:39:24.

tell people that we are addressing the serious issues

:39:25.:39:27.

facing this country. Other parties are determined

:39:28.:39:28.

for this not to be just a two-horse race between

:39:29.:39:31.

the Conservatives and Labour. We're just coming out of a very

:39:32.:39:33.

successful local council election where we've gained seats,

:39:34.:39:36.

we've taken seats off Labour and when we are knocking on doors

:39:37.:39:41.

talking to people locally they are telling us they are looking

:39:42.:39:42.

for an alternative. They are very disillusioned

:39:43.:39:43.

with the Labour Party, they are worried about what another

:39:44.:39:45.

Tory government means I am a very committed Remainer

:39:46.:39:47.

and I will remain a Remainer, and so it's very important to me

:39:48.:39:51.

that I get the message across that I think a hard Brexit

:39:52.:39:54.

will cause untold damage. Ukip came third in the 2015 general

:39:55.:40:00.

election here with 5000 votes. But they're not fielding

:40:01.:40:04.

a candidate this time round. Where their vote goes could play

:40:05.:40:09.

a key role in the outcome here. We've been joined now from Cardiff

:40:10.:40:14.

by our Political Editor Nick, the big backdrop has been the

:40:15.:40:27.

possibility of significant Tory gains in Wales. How is that playing

:40:28.:40:31.

out? That has been the case and we have seen a reflection of it today.

:40:32.:40:37.

Theresa May is included South, constituency held by Labour, one of

:40:38.:40:40.

the target seats for Conservatives in Wales. She has been to Wales

:40:41.:40:44.

three times in the campaign, Wrexham, where you have heard from,

:40:45.:40:49.

and also another target seat, so it has been a very offensive strategy

:40:50.:40:54.

and campaign by the Conservatives in Wales, and I think broadly that has

:40:55.:40:58.

certainly the mindset at the start of the campaign, the view of the

:40:59.:41:04.

Leave voting Wales, the chunky Ukip vote, all playing potentially well

:41:05.:41:08.

for the Conservatives in terms of the policy side of things. They came

:41:09.:41:13.

out with a big crowd pleasing announcement to talk about

:41:14.:41:18.

abolishing as a manifesto commitment the Severn tolls, the other parties

:41:19.:41:21.

said they were in on that game but the Tories said they were the ones

:41:22.:41:26.

who have done this and they talked about replacing EU aid for

:41:27.:41:31.

economically deprived communities. I have to say, I spoke to a senior

:41:32.:41:34.

Welsh Conservative this morning and the level of confidence that we may

:41:35.:41:38.

have seen a few weeks ago isn't quite there as you would expect in

:41:39.:41:40.

the light of some of the polling evidence we have seen recently. It

:41:41.:41:45.

seems Labour's response in Wales has been to keep its distance from

:41:46.:41:50.

Jeremy Corbyn and run a slightly more independent campaign. That's

:41:51.:41:52.

right, it has or must been Machynlleth no-fly zone for Jeremy

:41:53.:41:55.

Corbyn in Wales. We did see him at the start a few days after the snap

:41:56.:42:06.

election was called. Particularly in the context of the infighting we

:42:07.:42:10.

have seen within Labour at the UK level, they have stressed the Welsh

:42:11.:42:15.

Labour element and they did it reasonably successfully in the

:42:16.:42:18.

assembly campaign a year ago and up to a point, even though there were

:42:19.:42:21.

some big scouts they lost in the council elections a few weeks ago,

:42:22.:42:25.

again you could argue reasonably successful. But they have done that

:42:26.:42:30.

in a general election. To be frank, with all been scratching our heads

:42:31.:42:35.

thinking how on earth do you do that in Westminster campaign? The man who

:42:36.:42:39.

has fronted Welsh Labour's campaign in Wales has been Carwyn Jones, he

:42:40.:42:43.

is not a candidate, he is an Assembly Member. In a sense he has

:42:44.:42:51.

no skin the game in this and yet he has been the one leading the

:42:52.:42:55.

campaign. From their perspective they feel it gives a sense of

:42:56.:43:05.

differentiation in Welsh identity, which has worked for them in the

:43:06.:43:11.

past. The big question is whether it can work in a general election

:43:12.:43:15.

context. Nick Servini, thank you. Let's return to the Greens because

:43:16.:43:17.

when Caroline Lucas was last on the programme inmates were discussed

:43:18.:43:17.

with her a ?250,000 donation the party was offered and the decision

:43:18.:43:18.

for the green candidate not to stand in the Park by-election.

:43:19.:43:21.

Andrew asked Caroline Lucas if she knew the name

:43:22.:43:25.

of the proposed donor - let's just have a look

:43:26.:43:27.

I know of the incident you are talking about but it happened after

:43:28.:43:39.

the decision had already been taken to stand down and the money was

:43:40.:43:40.

So any kind of implication that we were standing down in order

:43:41.:43:45.

for money is absolutely wrong, categorically wrong.

:43:46.:43:48.

It happened after the decision was taken and the

:43:49.:43:51.

I didn't speak to them directly but that is my understanding.

:43:52.:43:59.

As joint leader of the party if somebody

:44:00.:44:00.

offers your party ?250,000 you don't know who it is?

:44:01.:44:00.

I've heard the name but the point was it went through our

:44:01.:44:01.

ethical checks, it didn't pass our ethical checks, the money was not

:44:02.:44:01.

The candidate had already decided to stand aside, as

:44:02.:44:09.

indeed the candidate has decided again because essentially what we

:44:10.:44:11.

had in the Richmond by-election was the chance to oppose

:44:12.:44:13.

Zac Goldsmith, who had been running a very racist

:44:14.:44:19.

campaign in London and we wanted to try

:44:20.:44:21.

to get somebody in there who was

:44:22.:44:22.

Caroline Lucas. Jonathan Bartley, as you heard, your colleague was very

:44:23.:44:34.

firm in saying that the candidate for the by-election had already

:44:35.:44:37.

decided not to stand. That's correct, isn't it? That's correct.

:44:38.:44:43.

But the timing looks slightly more suspect because you said there would

:44:44.:44:47.

be a Green Party report into the incident published after the general

:44:48.:44:50.

election and we have been given a copy of that report and in the

:44:51.:44:54.

timeline of events it says your candidate withdrew on the very same

:44:55.:44:57.

day the donation was offered which was the 1st of November 2016, so she

:44:58.:45:02.

literally stood down just hours before you got the offer of the

:45:03.:45:06.

donation? I'm not quite sure about the report, this report was produced

:45:07.:45:13.

five or six weeks ago and leaked onto Guido and that report has been

:45:14.:45:17.

categorically rubbished. I'm not sure which report you are talking

:45:18.:45:21.

about will stop on the same day the candidate said she would not stand.

:45:22.:45:26.

She said she would withdraw from the selection, also the same day that

:45:27.:45:33.

this link report said the person contacting you offering ?250,000

:45:34.:45:44.

made that offer. I can tell you categorically that when I found out

:45:45.:45:46.

about the offer I know the candidate had already stood down. Do you know

:45:47.:45:52.

the name? You don't know the proposed donor? I don't know. The

:45:53.:45:56.

decision was made before the donation was refused. We have checks

:45:57.:45:59.

and balances within the party, there is a committee who makes the

:46:00.:46:02.

decisions, it's not within the gift of the leaders to accept or reject a

:46:03.:46:07.

donation and there is no link. The nominations to be the Green party

:46:08.:46:12.

candidate closed the day before you offer the money. So she decided to

:46:13.:46:18.

stand one they had the next day she decided to withdraw that

:46:19.:46:22.

application. That is a bit coincidental, isn't it? Why put your

:46:23.:46:25.

name forward and change your mind the next day? I know her very well

:46:26.:46:30.

and she was the only person going forward, she was the natural person

:46:31.:46:34.

to be the candidate. Why did she change her mind in 24 hours? She

:46:35.:46:38.

didn't, she made the decision quite a time before, she been thinking

:46:39.:46:42.

about it for two or three or four weeks before because I'd have those

:46:43.:46:45.

conversations with her, she was working through it and I was trying

:46:46.:46:48.

to support her. The idea of a progressive Alliance is very strong.

:46:49.:46:54.

You are saying this is not an accurate turn of events but if it is

:46:55.:46:57.

it looks like sheep put her name forward, with it the next day within

:46:58.:47:01.

hours of the offer of a donation. I can only tell you why she did it. I

:47:02.:47:06.

can only take her word for it. I cannot see why you would carry on

:47:07.:47:10.

pushing this line when it is absolutely clear she made the

:47:11.:47:13.

decision days before and there is no link to the donation which we

:47:14.:47:17.

refused. It is your report but it's not as clear as you would think.

:47:18.:47:20.

Now it's time for the latest in our series of interviews

:47:21.:47:22.

with the smaller parties standing in the general election on Thursday.

:47:23.:47:25.

Established in 2006, the Animal Welfare Party is striving

:47:26.:47:27.

to create a fairer society in which the needs

:47:28.:47:29.

of people, animals and the environment are balanced.

:47:30.:47:31.

They oppose any repeal of the fox hunting ban,

:47:32.:47:33.

They want to phase out animal experimentation with binding

:47:34.:47:37.

targets for reduction, combined with proper

:47:38.:47:39.

They're promoting plant-based diets in order to improve human health,

:47:40.:47:42.

and to protect the environment and global food security.

:47:43.:47:44.

They propose ending live animal export, and reducing journey times

:47:45.:47:47.

for animals travelling to slaughter within the UK And they want clear

:47:48.:47:49.

labelling of products so consumers can make informed choices in line

:47:50.:47:53.

with their own principles on the environment,

:47:54.:47:55.

And now we're joined by the leader of the Animal Welfare

:47:56.:48:08.

Welcome. Given the unfortunate circumstances with Ireland, the

:48:09.:48:23.

current terrorism threats come immigration issues, social problems

:48:24.:48:26.

in the UK, do we have the resources to focus on animal welfare in the

:48:27.:48:32.

way you have outlined? -- given the unfortunate circumstances we are in.

:48:33.:48:37.

We absolutely do. One of the key policies is about promoting healthy

:48:38.:48:41.

plant -based diet. We say that is better for human health, and the

:48:42.:48:45.

environment, and animal welfare. When we look at the environmental

:48:46.:48:49.

impacts of a diet based highly on animal products, we cannot sustain

:48:50.:48:53.

that long-term. We cannot sustain that is the world population is

:48:54.:48:58.

growing from 7 billion, as it is now, and it is expected to be up to

:48:59.:49:05.

10 billion in 2050. What is the difference between some of the

:49:06.:49:09.

policies you are suggesting and what the Green party are suggesting? Why

:49:10.:49:13.

don't you lobby the Green party more to support the things you are

:49:14.:49:16.

suggesting? Absolutely. I'm so delighted to read the manifesto at

:49:17.:49:20.

the Green party. They produced a separate manifesto on animal

:49:21.:49:23.

welfare. What is the point of your party? I do identify with in that

:49:24.:49:29.

manifesto some of the policies that were in our 2050 manifesto. I don't

:49:30.:49:33.

know if that is a coincidence. I would say that since we began ten

:49:34.:49:37.

years ago we called ourselves a testimonial party. That means we

:49:38.:49:41.

speak to the highest possible policies they can be the animal

:49:42.:49:47.

welfare. We make them available to all parties. We are happy when we

:49:48.:49:50.

see them being picked up by other parties. Have you read Vanessa's

:49:51.:49:54.

manifesto and suggestions and brought them into yours? I don't

:49:55.:49:59.

write the manifesto. I haven't read it, with respect. I'm sure they are

:50:00.:50:02.

amazing. We produce our own animal welfare manifesto. I think there is

:50:03.:50:07.

a role, as you say, to work with other parties like the Women's

:50:08.:50:13.

Equality Party, we have been working with them. We want more choice in

:50:14.:50:16.

our electoral system. This is another case for why we should be

:50:17.:50:20.

looking to reform the system, have a fairer system, because if people

:50:21.:50:24.

want to put animal welfare on the agenda they can vote for us or your

:50:25.:50:30.

party. Let's talk about the repeal of the fox hunt ban. What are the

:50:31.:50:36.

thoughts about Theresa May giving MPs a vote on it? I think it is

:50:37.:50:40.

appalling. Professor Andrew Knight, a professor of animal welfare, an

:50:41.:50:43.

expert in this field, we've been looking at this issue, and there is

:50:44.:50:48.

absolutely no evidence for bringing back fox hunting and saying this is

:50:49.:50:54.

in some way an acceptable act to deal with the fox population. Which,

:50:55.:50:59.

incidentally, we don't need to deal with because fox populations are

:51:00.:51:03.

self managing. You talked about diet, being healthy, a growing

:51:04.:51:08.

population, would you prefer if everybody was a vegetarian? We don't

:51:09.:51:11.

make statements like that. We call for a 50% reduction in meat

:51:12.:51:16.

consumption from our current levels. We say that is necessary for the

:51:17.:51:19.

future survival of the planet. We have a human population of come here

:51:20.:51:26.

in the UK, of 65 million. But we are killing 1 billion animals per year.

:51:27.:51:30.

When we look at how we feed those. It is a staggering statistic. 50% of

:51:31.:51:34.

all of the corn we are growing as being fed to animals. 50% of all the

:51:35.:51:41.

water used in the world is for animal farming. Yet we have people

:51:42.:51:44.

who are starving, people who don't have clean water to drink. Thanks

:51:45.:51:45.

very much. One of the Green Party's big ideas

:51:46.:51:48.

is a plan to move to a standard four-day working week -

:51:49.:51:51.

and a three-day weekend. While workers might cheer at that

:51:52.:51:54.

prospect, would the country's businesses and public services be

:51:55.:51:56.

able to cope? Adam's been putting the idea

:51:57.:51:58.

to the test, in Bristol. We're in the constituency

:51:59.:52:02.

of Bristol West which is one of the Greens' top target seats

:52:03.:52:04.

and we're testing one of their key policies,

:52:05.:52:07.

the introduction of a three-day So, do people think it's

:52:08.:52:09.

a good idea or a bad idea? Because more time for

:52:10.:52:21.

students to get drunk. Well, let's hope no one watches this

:52:22.:52:27.

on national television. I would love to have a three-day

:52:28.:52:35.

weekend but I'm thinking, does that mean a lot of my money's

:52:36.:52:41.

going to get cut because of it? Exactly, you know, money's money

:52:42.:52:44.

at the end of the day. Or it's going to be called

:52:45.:52:49.

American sweetheart. Wouldn't you like

:52:50.:52:58.

an extra day to be an artist rather than

:52:59.:53:00.

being at the office? How would you feel about having one

:53:01.:53:02.

less day of work a week? Can you cycle past

:53:03.:53:06.

and get it in as you No, don't fall off, don't

:53:07.:53:21.

fall off, I'll do it. You look pretty relaxed

:53:22.:53:26.

as it is to be fair. Mental health is very

:53:27.:53:32.

important and, you know, more relaxing is what we

:53:33.:53:34.

all need, I think. I'd have to have my

:53:35.:53:37.

husband home to much. Total load of bloody rubbish

:53:38.:53:41.

because if you don't work you're not You don't contribute to the economy

:53:42.:53:47.

the country's going to go bust. You are walking around

:53:48.:53:52.

the town centre A three-day weekend,

:53:53.:53:53.

good idea or a bad idea? What would you do

:53:54.:53:57.

with your extra freedom? Do you think that's

:53:58.:54:00.

the Green party's This is my boss and I work six days

:54:01.:54:14.

for him at the moment. You're going to work

:54:15.:54:18.

seven days a week? It would be fun but it's

:54:19.:54:22.

just not practical. Well, there we go, a big majority

:54:23.:54:36.

think an extra long weekend would be Is that a big enough ice cream?

:54:37.:54:55.

Explain how your policy would work. Would we all have to take a pay cut?

:54:56.:55:02.

Four-day working week. We were flagging it up. We have to start

:55:03.:55:07.

thinking on these terms. 100 years ago, Henry Ford said let's have a

:55:08.:55:10.

five-day working week, everybody said you can't, but that is now the

:55:11.:55:17.

standard. There is this idea of automation where there will be large

:55:18.:55:23.

amount of job losses. We get stressed. We work some of the

:55:24.:55:26.

longest hours in Europe. We take some of the longest six pay which is

:55:27.:55:30.

a huge burden on the NHS and welfare. Would people's wages be

:55:31.:55:35.

cut? We would have something phased in. We need to have a conversation

:55:36.:55:39.

about it. People's wages shouldn't be cut. Businesses would take a

:55:40.:55:41.

conversation about it. People's wages shouldn't be cut. Businesses

:55:42.:55:43.

would take the hit? Not necessarily because government can do things.

:55:44.:55:49.

You can provide contributions to make it easier for companies that

:55:50.:55:54.

want to employ more workers at a more productive rate. It works for

:55:55.:55:59.

businesses. We know that. They are more productive. Flexible and

:56:00.:56:02.

part-time work is different. A lot of people say that even if they have

:56:03.:56:06.

a part-time job you end up working five days, but just working them in

:56:07.:56:11.

four, you would be more stressed. I don't think so. Some people in the

:56:12.:56:15.

package saying if you are unemployed you don't contribute. But there is a

:56:16.:56:19.

huge unpaid economy of, for example, care, which is important realise. If

:56:20.:56:27.

we look at France. The issue of the 35 hour working week. It has been

:56:28.:56:31.

seen as detrimental to the economy. I don't know about the state of

:56:32.:56:35.

people's mental health. But that is what Emmanuel Macron wants to get

:56:36.:56:39.

rid of it. We need to learn from the examples of France. We are talking

:56:40.:56:43.

about something different, something to be phased in over time. Something

:56:44.:56:48.

we would do as a matter of consideration, rather than

:56:49.:56:50.

introducing it overnight, which is what the French did. You won't ever

:56:51.:56:55.

get in government. Very happy to concede. Apologies, I would just be

:56:56.:57:04.

honest. When we flagged this in our conference speech a few months ago,

:57:05.:57:08.

suddenly it got a load of attraction. I was out canvassing and

:57:09.:57:14.

people were talking about it, they were raising it. We all like the

:57:15.:57:18.

idea. But what about Labour's offer of more bank holidays? That would be

:57:19.:57:25.

one way of phrasing it in. Let's take a step back. It is about who

:57:26.:57:30.

the economy is for. Few people are asking that question. We get these

:57:31.:57:35.

bland numbers, get the economy growing 1%, 2%, get this trade deal,

:57:36.:57:40.

but we are not asking who get benefits. If these policies are

:57:41.:57:43.

gaining traction, or this particular one to have a four-day working week,

:57:44.:57:47.

then why are you not doing better in the polls. You are not doing as well

:57:48.:57:53.

as you were in 2015. People are probably thinking they will vote for

:57:54.:57:57.

the Labour Party. We know this is a strange election where people are

:57:58.:58:00.

voting tactically like never before. And you have encouraged it. We have

:58:01.:58:05.

worked with other parties, saying let's move beyond tribalism. In 2015

:58:06.:58:10.

lots of people voted Ukip and it took the country in one direction.

:58:11.:58:13.

They were effectively running the government with no MPs. You want to

:58:14.:58:17.

take the country in another direction, you can vote Green.

:58:18.:58:21.

You're hoping for more than one MP, presumably? I would love that.

:58:22.:58:23.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:24.:58:27.

The question was who have society magazine, Tatler,

:58:28.:58:29.

named as the poshest candidate to be Prime Minister?

:58:30.:58:31.

Is it a) Theresa May, b) Tim Farron,

:58:32.:58:33.

c) Jeremy Corbyn, or, d) Caroline Lucas?

:58:34.:58:35.

Surely not. Because he has a brother called Piers and he has a son called

:58:36.:58:51.

Seb. So apparently that is why. Thanks to Jonathan Bartley

:58:52.:58:52.

and all my guests. In just over an hour's time

:58:53.:58:55.

Adam Fleming will be popping up on the BBC Politics Facebook

:58:56.:58:58.

page with his Election And, Andrew will be here at noon

:58:59.:59:01.

tomorrow with more Daily Politics.

:59:02.:59:03.

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