13/06/2017 Daily Politics

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

It's the first day back at school for MPs after the election.

But with a hung parliament, could things start to get a little unruly

The Prime Minister will welcome the leader of the Democratic

Unionist Party to Downing Street shortly, to try to agree a deal

to allow the Conservatives to govern as a minority.

The leader of the Conservatives in Scotland, Ruth Davidson,

says the party's approach to Brexit must change following the election.

Parliament has 93 new MPs - a good number of whom didn't expect

So what's it like taking a seat in Parliament for the first time?

And it was a disappointing election night for Ukip,

resulting in the resignation of their leader Paul Nuttall.

We speak to one of those seeking to replace him.

And with us for the whole of the programme today is the former

leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard.

First today, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party,

Arlene Foster, is due at Downing Street in the next half

an hour or so, for talks about supporting a Conservative

minority government on key government business.

Eleanor Garnier is in Downing Street.

Eleanor, what the are we expecting between the Conservatives and the

Democratic Unionist Party? This is going to be a looser deal, if you

like. It will not be a formal coalition like saw between the Lib

Dems and the Conservatives. It will be a confidence and supply

arrangement, where the DUP will agree to back the Conservatives on

big votes like the Budget, like the Queen's speech. But after that,

everything will be on an issue by issue, day by day basis. It will be

a looser arrangement. Remember how much Theresa May needs this deal to

be done. Without an overall majority she will not be able to govern. As

for the DUP leader, Arlene Foster, she wants to return home showing she

has got something out of this deal. An element about this will be a

transaction, cash for votes, if you like, some sort of investment. There

is a price Arlene Foster will want to extract from the Prime Minister.

What about the issue of Brexit? The DUP have concerns about cross-border

trade. Yes, the Brexit negotiations are something the leaders will be

talking about at Number 10 in the next hour. Certainly the issue about

the hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The

DUP don't want it. Theresa May doesn't want it. She has talked

about having a frictionless border. The DUP wanted to be as flexible as

possible. They do support Brexit, some of them enthusiastically so.

This idea of putting the economy first and having continued access to

people, workers, goods and services, that position from the DUP has

given, I think, some of those in the Conservative Party who want the

closest possible relationship with the EU, it has given them some hope.

We are expecting Arlene Foster to arrive in the next half an hour. We

did hear from Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire this

morning. He said things are looking positive than the expected deal to

be done. Al, we will leave you to keep your eyes peeled. -- Eleanor.

Michael Howard, did you think your party would be in this position

before election night? No. How do you feel? I'm obviously

disappointed. It was not the result I had hoped to see. Was it down to a

disastrous campaign? It clearly wasn't a great campaign, but there

is nothing to be gained by looking back. No doubt people can reflect at

leisure on the lessons to be learned. I'm sure there are lessons

to be learned. I'm more interested in the present and the future. There

are lessons to be learned though, aren't there? The talks about to

start between Theresa May and Arlene Foster, much of it will be about

what price Arlene Foster wants to extract from Theresa May, including

perhaps some of the austerity measures she may feel should come

out of any legislative programme that the Conservatives want to put

forward, like the social care policy, the Winter Fuel Payments cut

in the Tory manifesto. While their mistakes in the campaign? Let's talk

about the present and the future and what Arlene Foster may want. Let's

wait and see. There is every prospect of a deal being reached

today. I hope the deal is reached. We will have to wait and see how

that deal plays out. We have been here before. This is not the first

time that there has been a government which has not had an

overall majority, which has been operating in a hung parliament and

has had to do deals with minority parties. It has been quite a long

time. The coalition was different. The coalition was completely

different. I'm old enough to remember the days of Prime Minister

Callinan. It is a long time ago. I'm getting on! That was the 1970s. You

also remember from those days that they can pull the plug at any time

here It is not an ideal situation. It is not where I hoped we would be.

Are you comfortable with a relationship, even a confidence and

supply relationship, with the DUP? They have ten elected members of

Parliament to the UK Parliament. They are legitimately elected

members of Parliament. If they are prepared to support us, yes. What

about what they might want in return for supporting the legislative

programme, the big financial, economic policies that a government

has to get through Parliament to survive? What would you be prepared

to give in terms of offering something to Arlene Foster? Since I

know perfectly well that I know I'm not going to be in that position, it

is something to which I have not given any thought. But there has to

be support from her own Conservative party. There have to be some lines

drawn. In terms of deficit reduction, are you prepared to see

quite a bit of money go to the DUP? I'm prepared to leave these things

do the good judgment of the Prime Minister. I'm sure she will have the

support of all Conservative members of Parliament on the deal Bear Cheek

will do with Arlene Foster this afternoon. Do you think she will

stay on, Theresa May? I think she should stay. She has a duty and

responsibility to stay. It would be immensely disruptive to Brexit

negotiations if we had a very Conservative leadership contest are

a general election while those negotiations are going on. We have

heard from the EU negotiating team that they want a strong team from

the UK with a mandate. There will be a strong team from the United

Kingdom. He will not be negotiating with members of Parliament. He will

not be negotiating with opposition parties. He would be negotiating

with the Prime Minister and the Brexit secretary. They will be

sitting on the other side of the table. She is weakened by the

result. George Osborne called her a dead man walking. You don't want a

leadership contest because you don't want to see Jeremy Corbyn of walking

into Number 10, so you are prepared to stick with her because there is

not a better option on the table? No, I want to stay because I think

any kind of contest would be immensely disruptive to the

negotiations Brexit. I think her MPs in Parliament should give her strong

and full support. Signs are that is exactly what will happen.

A new political drama will be coming to our screens this weekend.

c) Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher.

At the end of the show Michael will give us the correct answer.

When Theresa May called the election, she said

she needed a majority to be able to deliver Brexit and overcome

As it was she ended up losing her majority, and will now

But does this mean the government's approach to Brexit

The Government's white paper on the Brexit plans included 12

principles for the negotiation, with the focus on controlling

immigration and leaving the Single Market, as well as leaving

the Customs Union to strike free trade deals with

Although a free trade deal with the EU was promised,

Theresa May's view that "no deal is better than a bad deal" was also

reflected in the manifesto, along with the continued commitment

to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands.

But after failing to win a majority, and the need

to come to a deal with DUP, some have suggested

DUP leader Arlene Foster has spoken out against leaving the EU

without a trade deal in place, and has raised the issue

of maintaining the open border between Northern Ireland

Last week's election result has also lead to many

within the Conservative Party calling for a changed stance

on Brexit, led by Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson

who has called for an "open Brexit" which prioritises free trade

Labour, meanwhile, is also committed to leave the Single Market

to curbing free movement - something that Shadow

Chancellor John McDonnell reiterated at the weekend.

Prominent Conservative Leave campaigners insist all this means

the party's approach to Brexit won't change.

What we want, obviously, is to engage and discuss these

matters with people but, in essence, those negotiations

are due to start very, very shortly, ie next week,

and the Conservative government needs to get on and make sure

that they now start talking to our European allies and friends

about how we arrange to have the benefits,

as the Labour Party stood on the same manifesto,

they stood on a manifesto that said no to the single market,

no to customs union, control of our borders,

so the majority of the British people had in front of them two

parties that constituted the majority of the votes that

actually stood on very similar manifestos on Brexit.

To discuss this further, I'm joined by the Conservative MP,

and former Attorney General, Dominic Grieve.

Welcome back. Have the fundamentals of the Brexit negotiating position

changed after the election? The change that has taken place is that

the government does not have a majority, currently, though we may

succeed in doing that with the DUP. The second change is I think we need

to listen to the message which the electorate is giving to us. One of

the messages I picked was that the electorate are increasingly

concerned about the economic well-being of the country, that they

are fed up with austerity, partly because austerity was a means to an

end and they see this as a prominent state. It is not surprising in those

circumstances they should be troubled by it. I think there is

also an appreciation that Brexit may have opportunities but it also

carries risks. You don't agree with Iain Duncan Smith that the issue is

now settled? I've never thought the issue was settled. I didn't think it

was settled before the election. My view has always been that you need

to negotiate and you need to see what you can get from negotiation.

Secondly, you have to be realistic about what is in the national

interest at any given moment against a moving background. The background

is undoubtedly a moving one. The question is, what is in the best

interest of the country? If we spend years mired in Brexit negotiations,

which are damaging to the economy in the short to medium term, whatever

the opportunities may be in the longer term, then not sure the

electorate are going to thank us for that. I think they are looking for

trying to bring this matter to as clean and rapid a conclusion as

possible. What does it mean in practical terms? Does the

government's negotiating position need to change, or is it still the

case they will continue down the path of saying Britain is leaving

the single market and leaving the Customs Union? The government is

entitled to do just -- explore the options that may be on offer. But in

doing that, the government needs to be realistic about it on ability to

command a majority in the House, and secondly, needs to be realistic

about the national interest in terms of getting this matter resolved.

Provided they keep those things in mind and adopt a common sense

approach, we will probably emerge with the right conclusion. All

options are on the table? Yes, they should be. You didn't win the

election, Labour didn't win the election. Despite the fact in both

manifestos are clearly said, we are committed to leaving the single

market and the Customs Union, everything has changed? One thing

hasn't changed. Surprisingly enough, Dominic didn't actually mention it.

That is that just about a year ago, we had a referendum. And that

referendum resulted in a clear vote by the people of this country in

favour of leaving the European Union. Now, of course, I'm in total

agreement with Dominic that we need a common sense approach. I

absolutely agree that we must keep the national interest in mind at all

times. But as Iain Duncan Smith has reminded us, the truth is that I

hope -- heard Jeremy Corbyn say clearly on Sunday morning, we must

leave the single market. He said we must try to get a tariff free

agreement of access to the single market. That is the government

position. The Labour manifesto said leaving the European Union means the

end of free movement. That is the government position. So actually,

there is, as Ian said, an enormous degree of consensus between the two

main parties for those objectives. The only parties that were really

seeking to one do Brexit in the general election where the SNP,

which is substantially lost ground, and the Liberal Democrats, which

failed to gain any brand. So the principle set out in the

White Paper are still the principles the government is going to negotiate

on. I was very happy to endorse the principle set out in the White Paper

and the longest house speech, if the Prime Minister can achieve those

objectives. I think people would recognise was a remarkable outcome.

I don't disagree with... If we leave the single market would you accept

that we are still single to the four freedoms, as they are called, by the

EU, including freedom of movement of people, would we be leaving the EU?

Yes, of course we would be leaving the EU but it is a different way of

leaving the EU and it is a legitimate subject of debate as to

whether the national interest should take one route or another. Both are

leaving the EU, certainly in terms of the question was put to the

electorate last year. So both, in my view, are capable, and should be

capable, being debated. That is not to say that the Prime Minister's

approach as set out like as has speech was wrong. Do you accept that

that is another virgin? There has been a lot of debate within your own

party as well as the other parties, including Labour, that what people

voted for in that referendum was, yes, to leave the EU, take back

control and sovereignty but yes, to leave the EU, take back

necessarily to be the single market. If we remain subject to freedom of

movement, one of the four freedoms you mentioned, and if we remain

subject to the jurisdiction of the European court of justice we will

not have taken back control, people will not have got what they voted

for a year ago and we will not in any real sense have left the

European Union. Even Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Tories in

Scotland, who has increased the number of Tory MPs in Scotland and

now has a certain amount of influence that she can bring to bear

to the negotiations, she is calling very strongly, saying we need to

look again at the Brexit strategy and she is also saying it is not

just a Tory Brexit, we need to include all the parties. Bennies to

be much more consensus. Is she right? Depends what she means Archy

has called for an open Brexit. I'm afraid I have no idea what an open

Brexiteers. She doesn't want immigration to be at the forefront.

Is she right that the economy should come before a commitment to tens of

thousands in terms of net migration? I don't believe the commitment to

tens of thousands is going to form part of the negotiation. When we

were in the Brexit campaign, I used to say, and I meant, that the Brexit

campaign was not about lowering immigration, it was about who

decides what our level of immigration should be, and taking

back control means that we should have the right to decide in this

country for ourselves who we need to come into the country and who they

should be. Is this a Remain fightback? Is this an attempt by

Remainers across the House of Commons to say, we don't want to

leave the single market and we are being buoyed by the fact that there

has been a snap poll of 700 members of the Institute of Directors that

has found a dramatic drop in confidence following a hung

parliament and they're worried about access to skilled labour? Does that

not bring more pressure to bear for that view? Certainly we should

listen to what the business community is saying. The

Conservative Party has usually built its reputation on quiet government

and sound economic management. If we are not delivering those two things,

then we shouldn't be surprised when people get attracted to other

visions and we have to face up to the fact that Brexit was in its own

weight in revolutionary act and the trouble with revolutions is they

tend to breed further revolutionary act as a consequence. Those of us

who have responsibility to ensure good governance have to keep that in

mind when we are trying to find the right way forward to respond

properly to the message that the electorate is giving us and, at the

same time, to ensure that we have the sort of quiet, good government

which makes people confident about their future and ultimately prevents

this country from lurching around from one crisis to another. Do you

agree with that? Of course we have to do all those things, while also

complying with the instruction given to us by the British people a year

ago to leave the European Union. But, of course, listening to Dominic

Grieve, he is saying we are going to have to broaden the options on the

table. Do you see these calls for - and it is a loaded term - a

softening of Brexit? Does that worry you? Do you think that maybe

Brexiters just not going to happen? I have no idea what these phrases

mean. I don't know what is done by hard Brexit, a soft Brexit or an

open Brexit. What I think it is more useful to concentrate on the

substantive issues which, to be fair, we have just been discussing.

Do we leave the single market? Do we retain control over freedom of

movement. Do we continue to subject ourselves to the jurisdiction of the

European Court of Justice? Those are the issues that really matter and

they need to be resolved one way or another in the negotiations. You can

understand people's concerns when they hear that the NHS was facing a

staffing crisis after Brexit because it sparked a jaw-dropping 96% fall

in EU nurses applying for jobs. That would make people think, I want to

rethink that decision to leave the single market. Well, I think people

are drawing the wrong conclusions from the likely outcome of the

Brexit negotiations. But it is already happening, the applications

are falling, so they are taking that message away. If we... When we

leave, we will have control over immigration policy. If it is the

case, as it is quite likely to be, we need people to come into the

country to help nursing people in the NHS, we will be able to frame an

immigration policy accordingly. But it is all ready putting people off -

that the evidence from some of these surveys. Do you now see a clear path

for a much longer transition, a much longer transitional period that

could take several years and would keep Britain under EU single market

terms? I think it is ludicrously premature to talk about a transition

when we don't know what the outcome of the negotiation is going to be.

But that will be part of the negotiation. Well, it may be. I've

no doctrinal objection to a transition period but that is

something you decide on when you've completed the negotiations, you've

decided what needs to happen and then you can make a sensible

decision about how long that's going to take and if that involves a

transition the rearrangement or an implementation period, I would have

no doctrinal difficulty with that but it is not something to be

decided now. We're going to talk briefly about austerity, which you

mentioned at the beginning. Before we do, there does seem to be a

certain amount of turmoil within the department that is in charge of

Britain leave the EU. David Jones has been sacked, George Bridges,

Melissa in the Lords, has quit. James Chapman, head of

Communications, has left. It isn't going to inspire confidence in the

negotiations. David Davis is still there. But he seems to have lost a

whole team of people. At our position has been laid out, as

Dominic reminded us, both in the White Paper and the Lancaster House

speech. So our opening position has been laid out very clearly and I

can't see any reason why the negotiations shouldn't start next

week, and I think we all hope that they reach a rapid speedy

conclusion, which is good for both of us. The European Union don't want

the United Kingdom to become an impoverished country, they want us

to prosper and we want them to prosper, and it's in our mutual

interests to reach a sensible, constructive agreement. That's

Brexit for the moment. Let's dog-leg but about austerity because Theresa

May's new chief of staff Gavin Barwell told Panorama that accident

were Brexit and austerity called the Conservative Party to lose seats,

including his own. There was a conversation I particularly remember

with a teacher who had voted for me in 2010 and 2015 and said, "I

understood the need for a pay freeze for a few years to deal with the

deficit but you are now asking that potentially to go on for ten more

years and that is too much" it that is the Jeremy Corbyn was able to tap

into. Just to make clear, Gavin Barwell was recorded for the

programme before he was made Theresa May's new chief of staff. Do you

agree with him? Yes, I do. I think it was quite clear that austerity

was a necessity born of the 2008 financial crisis. That is why the

Coalition was set up and it is also why we were re-elected in 2015. Was

an appreciation that our financial management made mistakes but was

pretty good and the economy was recovering. The difficulty we now

have is that the events of last year create instability and anxiety about

the future and if that becomes a state of permanence, people then

start asking, "I'm quite prepared to make sacrifices of I think it is

leading to an outcome which is going to be good to me and my family but

if it becomes a state of semi-permanence and you can't show

the direction of travel in which you are going, then it is going to

become much harder". Is austerity over? I think we need to be

realistic. Before we suddenly start chucking billions of pounds of

public services, we have also to look at what the consequences of

doing that might be. If Jeremy Corbyn had won this election, this

country would be on the road to economic ruin very, very quickly.

You might say that. I am absolutely convinced of it. The thing is, you

are going to do exactly, partly - I'm not saying wholesale - what's

Jeremy Corbyn was suggesting in his manifesto. You're going to reverse

austerity. I don't know what the primaries and the Chancellor... You

just said it would be the right thing to do. What the Prime Minister

and the Chancellor need to do, and I think they recognise this, is that

one has to understand the extent to which the austerity which has been

seen as an -- a necessity. Has gone on too long? Has limits of

reasonableness been reached with the electorate? This is going to be a

very big challenge because if as a result of turning a tap on public

expenditure, we start to undermine wealth creation in this country, in

the long term we will leave an even worse legacy. This has always been

the conundrum for all respectable governments. Jeremy Corbyn didn't

offer respectable government to dug-in fantasy vision. He did quite

well and a lot better than you expected. If respectable government

cannot offer a credible vision, the fantasists will soon creep into the

picture. Except that your vision was not accepted either by the majority

of people in terms of seats, so do you agree this was a protest about

ongoing austerity, hitting those who are less well off? Well, it is

entirely understandable, as Dominic has said that people should be

increasingly frustrated by austerity. We all completely

understand that. So why did you keep offering it in the manifesto?

Because on the other hand, as a country, we have to try to get to a

situation in which we are living within our means. We are not living

within our means at the moment, we haven't been living within our means

for quite a long time and, at some point, we have to try and get back

to that situation. Accepted as the priorities that were wrong.

Balancing that objective with responding to the understandable

desire of the electorate for something different is going to be

one of the great challenges facing the government. Would you be in

favour of the public sector pay freeze ending? I'm not the

Chancellor of the Exchequer. I know that. Do you have an opinion,

Michael Howard? I don't want to second-guess all first guess the

Chancellor of the Exchequer. It is one of the challenges he faces and I

wish the best of fortune as the addresses it. I'm sure you do.

Dominic Grieve, thank very much. Now, 93 newly elected MPs

are polishing their shoes, dusting down their suits and getting

ready for their first day Our Ellie has been finding out

how they're feeling. MUSIC PLAYS

if you thought Thursday night's result was a surprise, spare a

thought for those candidates who had not expected it either.

And now they've got new jobs, starting today. One of the Tories'

newest, newest and most surprised didn't even have a suit. I had to go

and buy one to date it I genuinely didn't own one. I had an old Primark

one so I have been and splashed out at matter land today. Also not

turning up in a suit yet, a new Labour MP who used to work at

Parcelforce. Lee Waters old shirt down to Westminster. How are you?

Nice to see you. Thursday jitters? Not jitters. It reminds me of my

first day on the labour ward. No, not that kind of Labour! He is a

doctor. I knew a little bit about what I was doing, trying to help

mothers deliver their babies safely but I didn't have much experience

and I have a lot to learn. The good thing is that the midwives on the

other doctors were very helpful and mine hoping for a bit of that today.

Do you even know where the toilets and the coffee shop are? I'm sure I

will find it! I'm sure you will. See you soon. Goodbye to it good luck.

Other newcomers have had to have awkward conversations with their

bosses. I care about it, it is important to me, but don't worry, I

will be back on Monday the 12th. And they were like, "OK, off you go,"

and I won. They are getting the hang of how to introduce themselves. I'm

Wera Hobhouse, I am the Liberal Democrat MP for Bafta Tocco, no, I

am the MP for Bath. Others aren't so new but had a break for seven years,

like David Drew who lost his seat in 2010 and found it again this time.

It is all very different. There are things like you get your laptop and

iPad, I never had that before. So there are some good things but the

downside is I'm still going to have to wait up to six weeks for an

office so nothing changes completely! So far, it has been all

about photo calls for the new MPs. The work gets under way in

Westminster this afternoon with the election of the Speaker, and then

they will get sworn in over the coming days.

And I'm joined here by two more new members of Parliament.

Emma Dent Coad won the seat of Kensington for the Labour Party.

And Christine Jardine won Edinburgh West for

Congratulations to both of you. I hope I'm not being impolite by

saying you must have been slightly surprised to have won the Labour

stronghold of Kensington? Not had all, actually. I'm born and bred

there. I know a lot of different communities. A lot of people had

felt completely alienate it from the process, and suddenly they became

engaged. A lot of conservatives who are appalled by the inequalities,

not only Brexit, but the inequalities in Kensington, also

voted for me. They have been even -- e-mailing me asking me to come and

talk to them. What was your experience of the night like? Tense.

Waiting for the phone call. The first surprise was when the poll

said it would be a hung parliament. I have to be honest and say we were

quite confident going into the night. We weren't taking it for

granted. But we had very good returns, a very good feeling on the

doorsteps. We knew it would be close. But we were close --

confident we could do it. There were a lot of close results on the night.

We had Stephen Gethins on yesterday. He held his seat by two volts. How

many recounts Werther in Kensington? I had three. I felt sorry for the

counters. They were totally exhausted. I think there were some

press pictures of them. They had to go to work the next day. That was

rather unfair. We had three. We were on tenterhooks. What about the

moment when they announced the numbers and you realised you had got

it? That is pretty special. They take you into the candidates'

briefing room to tell you. By that time you suspect. But you don't know

the actual numbers. That is pretty special. And it is exciting. It is

exciting for the people around you who have worked very hard for months

and years to make it happen. And it is their work and their moment as

much, sometimes more, than it is yours. They are the ones who have

delivered the victory. What were the issues that won it for you?

Independence. Right across the board. We had local issues in

Edinburgh West. But the impatience in Scotland with the SNP, another

Independence Referendum, keeping the ball rolling, it has worn very thin.

Even with some SNP supporters. They would rather they got on with

governing Scotland. We were getting that everywhere. What about the

first day? Are you nervous? Not at all. It feels quite natural,

actually. I feel bizarrely calm. What happens on the first day? You

get lots of inductions. It is not unlike being a councillor. It is

more or less what I expected. Very busy. Have you been shown around?

Have you got an office? Not yet. I have actually worked here before. I

worked for a spell in the coalition. I knew my way around the estate but

you see it very differently. You can now go in members' only areas. The

important thing is not to get too carried away. It is just part of the

job. The big parties back in the constituency. You have got some way

to travel. You are a little closer. You put your Ph.D. On I understand?

I have. I was doing architecture, politics and ideology under General

Franco in Spain. We are going to Parker for a little while. I hope to

negotiate with my university but I will be getting back to that at some

point. That indicates you are quite expecting to win on the night? We

had a plan! You were a broadcaster? I worked for the BBC. What is it

like on the other side? You get used to it. It is funny. Particularly in

Scotland. If I am on good morning Scotland I am quite often being

interviewed by the person who used to be my producer. The producer was

a researcher... Can you remember your first day, Michael? Allow me

first to congratulate both of you on your victories. It is a huge

privilege, walking through the gate, just amazing. A tremendous privilege

and a tremendous feeling. I do remember. I had agreed with Sandra

to go on breakfast television on the Friday morning immediately after

with Tim Brinton, who you will remember, and Jan, his wife. The

four of us were there. He was giving me advice, showing me the ropes on

television. And since then, all these years in Parliament, you

haven't regretted a moment? Well, I'm sure there are things I regret!

It is an enormous privilege. And that sense of privilege will never

leave you. I don't think. And it's a privilege that has to be earned and

earned again. It isn't a job for life, unless you have a safe seat.

Not only is it not a job for life, it is not something you should ever

take for granted. Did you expect the hung parliament? I thought it would

be close. But who knows? No. I don't think the world expected that. It

was much better than some of us feared. It is always possible. If we

can turn Kensington red, we can do anything. That may be true. What

about some of the issues you will be pursuing? Obviously independence was

an issue. Brexit will be hugely important. It was very important in

Scotland as well because Edinburgh, for example, the majority of people

in Edinburgh West voted two to stay in the UK and in the European Union.

We have two ensure we get the best possible deal. Hopefully, Mrs May

will see that the election result means that perhaps she didn't quite

have the mandate she thought for a hard Brexit, and that is glad to be

something the parties will be pursuing. Could you see yourselves

working with Ruth Davidson in Scotland in terms of pursuing a

similar approach to Brexit? I don't know. We have to see what happens.

We have a specific pro-EU approach. Before the referendum, Ruth Davidson

was very pro-Remain. We will have to wait to see what happens. Good luck

to both of you. Enjoy. We will see you again soon. Come back on.

So there are a couple of constitutional fixes

or conventions that might help Mrs May's government be a little bit

Among them is the power of Evel - not a cheap Hollywood horror flick,

but the relatively new concept of English Votes for English Laws,

designed to stop MPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland helping

The other is the much older Salisbury Convention,

created to protect a government's democratically supported manifesto

If that isn't all clear yet, don't worry, we have an expert.

Dr Alan Renwick from the Consitition Unit who is in Oxford.

Welcome to the programme. Thank you. I'm so sorry. I would have to

interrupt. We can just see Arlene Foster checking how Watts. She is on

the a few minutes late. She was expected at 12:30pm. Going in with

Nigel Dodds. Her support is absolutely critical to Theresa May.

So that she can actually govern. First of all she has to get her

queen's speeds through Parliament, Theresa May. These talks will be

crucial. It is a lifeline to Theresa May. It comes after the Prime

Minister apologised to MPs for the election result, telling them, I got

us into this mess and I will get us out of it. We will return of that

meeting finishes. Sorry for interrupting before you had even

begun. Tell us about these constitutional fixes. Will the

government be able to push through legislation relying only on English

MPs? No is the simple answer. Sorry, my earpiece as pop died. They are

very unreliable. Hold it. Eva lives not likely to make any difference.

-- Evel. It introduces an extra element into the process. Matters

that affect only England can be vetoed by English MPs. There is a

step in the process where English MPs have two agree to those laws.

Those laws are still subject to a vote by the whole of the House of

Commons. Although it is the case that Theresa May does have a

majority, quite a comfortable majority of 60 MPs in England, that

doesn't help are terribly much. She will still have to get anything

through the whole of the House of Commons as well. She has got an

issue, for example, like expanding grammar schools, expanding grammar

schools in England because education is devolved, she would still have to

get that passed the whole House before she can go to English-only

MPs, and she doesn't have a majority for everything. So she will still

have the same problems as with any other legislation? Yes, absolutely.

What the English Votes for English Laws provision doors is, if there

were a government which was the other way around, say the Labour

Party had one 50 or more seats, and it were the party leading a minority

government or a coalition government with a small number of MPs, then it

would have been constrained by the English Votes for English Laws

provision because it would not have a majority in England. At that point

the provision would have been important. But for this government

it doesn't make any difference. Let's talk about the Salisbury

Convention and the House of Lords. If something is in the manifesto and

a government wins a majority, that in the House of Lords should abide

by that manifesto commitment. If we look at restricting Winter Fuel

Payments for pensions -- pensioners, it is in the manifesto, but Mrs May

didn't get that majority, can she still putted to the House of Lords

using the Salisbury Convention? The Salisbury Convention is only a

convention. Members of the House of Lords are not bound by it. There are

different views as to what the convention means. Some would say the

convention does apply, even when the government does not have a majority

in the house of Commons. Others take the view that in that circumstance

it should not be regarded. The Salisbury Convention was introduced

in 1945 when the Labour Party had a very large majority in the House of

Commons but was well behind in the House of Lords. At that point, the

Leader of the House of Lords, Lord Salisbury, said, we recognise the

mandate of the Labour government and we should respect that. But it is

not clear, really, whether the House of Lords should see itself as being

bound by the mandate of the current government, because, as we know, the

government doesn't have a majority of MPs. Thank you very much. Michael

Howard. Problems ahead in the House of Lords. It is a convention and

they don't necessarily have to abide by it, and the Tories do not have a

majority in the House of Lords. When it comes to plans for Brexit, for

example, that no deal is better than a bad deal, that could go in the

House of Lords? You're looking many years ahead. We will cross that

bridge if and when we ever reach it. I hope the Salisbury Convention will

be respected. The Conservative party got 44% of the vote. Many more seats

than Labour. But they didn't win. Why should it be? You'll are depends

what you mean by win. No other party won. It is a convention. I think it

should apply in these circumstances. We shall see. When the Prime

Minister has got the Queen's speeds through the Commons, it will be

difficult. There will be problems of certain parts of that are held up by

the House of Lords? There may be all sorts of difficulties ahead. The

House of Lords should respect the authority of the House of Commons,

for a start. The Salisbury Convention should apply.

In Brexit, looking ahead to the Great Repeal Bill, there are already

people saying they won't support that bill is the next substantial

vote when it comes to Brexit. Let's see what the Great Repeal Bill

contains. I hope everyone will look at it and vote on its merits and, as

I say, we will cross those bridges if and when we come to them. We

talked earlier about parts of the manifesto that will possibly have to

be junked. Do you see that there will be part of a manifesto that was

fought on in this campaign that will have to go? Well, the Queen's speech

is going to result from discussions between the government and the DUP

and so, busy, if there are things in the manifesto which the DUP is not

prepared to support, it is not terribly likely that they will find

their way into the Queen's speech but that is going to be the subject

of the discussions which are probably taking place as we speak.

Yes, they are, indeed. I don't know how long they will be in there while

they are negotiating. Back on English roots for English laws, but

is effectively a veto and is not going to help Theresa May at all in

terms of pushing through English-only laws. For the reasons

given by your expert commentator, it is unlikely to have a very

significant effect in this Parliament, I agree. Briefly on the

fixed term Parliament act, that is on the statute. Do you think that

makes a five-year term for Mrs May more likely? It makes a five-year

term a little bit more likely, yes, because, as you know, there are

provisions which have to be satisfied in order for an election

to take place within that five years. However, those conventions

did not seem to be much of a bar to the calling of an election just a

few weeks ago and I suspect they won't be much of a bar to the

calling of an election within the five-year period if that's what

people want to. Do you think that should be scrapped? It was in the

Conservative manifesto. I think the fixed five-year parliament was

absolutely necessary for the Coalition because you had to have

provision which stopped one party cutting and running when it thought

it would be to its electoral advantage but I'm not convinced it

is necessary as a permanent feature of our constitution. So you wouldn't

be unhappy if it went? No. Was the first things our new MPs have to do

is elect their speaker. That post was held in the last

Parliament by John Bercow and he had been expected to face a challenge

after increasing But with a hung parliament,

one of the Speaker's most vocal detractors,

Conservative MP James Duddridge, said there "is not an appetite

to push it to a vote", adding that there are "more

important battles to fight". I'm joined now by Bobby Friedman,

who has written a biography Welcome back to the Daily Politics.

When we're talking about winners and losers in this election, John Bercow

it seems is a winner. He is. Is a bit Teflon and has been extremely

lucky because over the period since 2009, he has had all the cards fall

in the right place for him to stay a speaker and it has happened again

because as James Duddridge said, there was the appetite or ability to

do it because the Conservative Party have more pressing issues. But that

does imply that there was quite a lot of opposition to him. Tell us a

bit about some of the criticism of John Bercow. There has always been a

huge amount of opposition to him, particularly with Alyssa

Conservative Party. When he was elected in 2009 it was because

Labour still had a majority at that time and they voted for the

Conservative MP they knew David Cameron liked the least. David

Cameron has always hated John Bercow but never quite had the votes all

the political will to get it through and then, of course, just when it

looked like Theresa May might have a big majority that might allow the

Conservatives to finally get rid of him - and this is particularly

important because John Bercow during the campaign has said he is going to

stay in for a full term, having pledged early to say the nine years,

then this opportunity has gone as well. There was an opportunity to

unseat him in 2015 undefiled, didn't it? There was that attempt and an

attempt more recently this year, where there was a motion going round

which didn't get that many signatures. Again, it's because they

haven't ever been quite that majority. John Bercow, in fairness

to him, does have support from a number of Conservative MPs and as

the years go on, that kind of visceral hatred of him that we had

in 2009 has lessened a bit and many people think he has been a fairly

reasonable speaker, so the longer it goes on, and without that big

Conservative majority, he is not going to get unseated because he has

support on the other side of the House. Do you like him, Michael? It

would be foolhardy in the extreme for a member of the House of Lords

to express a view on the speakership of the House of commons and you

wouldn't expect me to trespassers on something which is totally within

the sovereignty of the House of Commons. That makes it sound like

you don't like him. Can I answer that question of this is an example

of why John Bercow was so unpopular. When Michael Howard was leader of

the Conservative Party the two might have got on and John Bercow went to

Lord Howard and said he thought that Ann Widdecombe was right when she

said there was something of the night about him and that was the

party leader at the time. Maybe that is why you are not very keen to talk

be pleased to see another term for John Bercow? I respect the

differences between the House of Lords the House of Commons and it

certainly wouldn't be right for me to make any... I think you should

break with convention for once! Backbenchers are going to be even

more empowered in this new parliament, a hung parliament, and

he has got a reputation, John Bercow, rightly or wrongly, of

trying to give more time to backbench MPs, hasn't he? That's

right it appears always said he is the backbencher speaker and he has

been much better at holding the government to account in some ways.

Weather that is because he hasn't liked the Conservative primaries as

is a moot point but ultimately he does get backbenchers more involved

but parliamentarians are really going to have their say in this

Parliament about thing John Bercow will allow that. Do you think that

has been a good thing, empowering Parliament to stand up to the

Executive, giving them more time, backbench MPs, in PMQs, which does

now overrun. Has that been a positive? Yes. And it should

continue? Yes, I'm sure it will. I suppose it is easy when you are not

the leader of the party any more to say that. If Tory MPs are moaning

less about him, do you think that has gone, any attempt to get rid of

him in future? I think yes, for the next parliament, assuming he doesn't

want to try and stay on again for another Parliament. There just

aren't those votes there and when you are government together, as

Theresa May is going to have to do, she just won't have that political

capital to be able to do it. So I think he has been very lucky but I

think he is safe for the next five years. What about relations between

him and Andrea Leadsom, who is now the new Leader of the House, taking

over from David Lidington. How do you see that relationship going?

John Bercow has a real habit of falling out with people he has to

deal with so I wouldn't rule that out but at the moment, things are

probably a little bit better than they have been. David Cameron really

disliked him. Theresa May sort of tolerates him and gave quite a nice

bit for one of his leaflets in the run-up to the election endorsing him

so he is getting on OK with the current leadership of the

Conservative Party and I think inevitably it will be a bit rocky

but given where the majority stands at the moment, I think Andrea

Leadsom will ultimately have to work with John Bercow. The other thing is

in a hung parliament, I suppose is or becomes even more important. He

has better relations with Theresa May. Is he going to mind his peace

and queues in the future or just carry on as if nothing has changed?

I years ever done that so -- see that starting up. He is into his

last five years so we may see him getting even more demob happy,

speaking out more on issues, not staying as impartial as he did over

the EU referendum, so I think we will see him trespassing into other

areas, as he started to do earlier this year. So you think you can

actually cause a little more trouble in the future? Yes, just putting a

little bit of poison now and then. What advice would you give to John

Bercow? I'm not asking you to say whether you like him or not but what

advice in this hung parliament in his position as arbiter of a hung

parliament? You are asking a member of the House of Lords to advise the

Speaker of the House of Commons. Well, only generally. You can give

friendly advice. You don't have to be unfriendly about it. I very much

doubt that he would ask for my advice, even further doubt that he

would accept it and I don't think it is for me to give it to him. Thank

you very much for coming in. Now we can return to Number Ten because we

saw Arlene Foster, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party walking

about famous street into Number Ten. Those discussions obviously still

going on. Norman, what can you tell us? You keep looking over your

shoulder just in case she comes out of that door. I was looking at a

much more interesting fight about to erupt, it seems, between Larry and

another cat. That is a serious clash that could be just about to unfold

it up I don't know whether I should intervene! Is he actually making

ground? Is Larry lying there? Larry is lying there and Parmeston turned

up and I thought he was chancing his arm. I think Larry has woken up now

and has realised there is trouble! Is this a euphemism for what is

going on behind the black door? Arlene Foster arrived a short time

ago and we shouted at her about "Is there going to be a deal"? At she

said absolutely nothing I think the expectation is that there will be

some sort of agreement, even if it is only the headlines of agreement

because, let's be honest, there was a mutual vested interest for both

parties to reach some sort of accommodation. They are both

fervently anti-Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party. Mrs May absolutely

need the deal to get a Commons majority so she can govern and for

the DUP, they will hope they will get money on it that there will be

cash for economic regeneration and reconstruction. There is a mutual

self-interest in reaching a bargain. I suspect it will be handshakes,

smiles and photo opportunities today. I think the trouble is more

down the line as to whether this sort of arrangement can actually

stick and lasting longer tempted In the short-term, we're still waiting,

aren't we, for a date for the Queen's speech, for the legislative

programme to be presented to Parliament and, presumably, wants

these talks are over, and if an arrangement has been reached by the

two ladies, then we will find out when that Queen's Speeches going to

be? Well, perhaps there is one scenario where the DUP just decide

to play hardball and they say, that is very interesting, this is all

good stuff and I'm sure we can reach an agreement but we've just got to

go away and finesse a few things. In other words, they don't sign on the

dotted line today but to increase their leverage... They are basically

going to keep Mrs May waiting, in which case the premise cannot say to

the Queen, next Monday we are on for the Queen's Speech. So it depends

whether the DUP are ready to actually sign on the dotted line

today or they choose to keep Mrs May waiting a bit longer, in which case

we really do not know when the Queen's Speeches going to be. Thank

you very much and keep Parmeston and Larry apart and keep your eye on the

black door! They are having a face-off now, actually! I will leave

you to concentrate on Number Ten. For the fourth time

in 12 months, Ukip Their last leader, Paul Nuttall,

resigned after the party failed to win a seat in the general

election last week. We'll be speaking to all

the candidates on Daily Politics. First is David Coburn,

who joins us from Strasbourg. We haven't got very long with you

but thank you for joining us. You say you are running for Ukip leader

to stop at Trieste, dilettantes and a single issue loonies. What do you

mean by that? Two is the what I'm doing as I am hoping that Nigel is

going to stand. My hope is that Nigel Farage is going to be our

leader again. I think he is the best man for the job but if he doesn't

stand, I will have to stand to make sure we don't have people coming in

who have not got the right idea. We want to go back to good

old-fashioned Ukip, which Idol had working beautifully and we want to

have that again, not this nonsense. At the risk of sounding like Brenda

during the general election campaign, Nigel again? Yes, well, I

regret he even left in the first place, quite frankly, but I'm hoping

that he will stand but if he doesn't, I will be standing. I want

to make sure we offer what we've always offered, which is the

ordinary working guy and girl, give them a good run for their money,

make sure they get treated fairly, keep taxes low, make sure we get

Brexit. We've seen what's happened with the Conservative Party, it has

disintegrated. The ridiculous election they've had has resulted a

disaster so obviously we've got to be there to make sure... Just very

briefly, was Paul Matt Allwright to resign? Yes, I think you did the

right thing. I think he was ill advised by the people around him but

I think he was right to resign. We've got serious problems in

Scotland. People worry about Ruth Davidson. She promised Brexit energy

is reneging. We have to leave it there. I am sorry to quit you short

but thank you very much for joining us briefly.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

The question was, which of these is the odd one out?

Was it A - Will Barton as Boris Johnson?

C - Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher?

So, Michael, what's the correct answer?

Michael Gove? No, it is Meryl Streep that Margaret Thatcher. You didn't

noted that because she was in a film and the others are a docudrama. I

think that the answer. I hope so! The one o'clock news is starting

over on BBC One now.