07/07/2017 Daily Politics


07/07/2017

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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Theresa May travels to Hamburg for the G20 summit where she'll

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press for agreement on neutralising the threat of global terrorism.

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We'll get the latest from the meeting of world leaders.

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The Brexit Secretary David Davis meets business leaders as the CBI

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calls for the UK to remain in the single market

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until a new trade deal with the EU is agreed.

:00:58.:01:01.

The House of Lords is lit up to celebrate the 50th anniversary

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of the partial-decriminalisation of homosexuality

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And, as Jeremy Corbyn's poll ratings climb, is the Labour leader planning

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And with me for the duration is the political journalist

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So Theresa May is in Hamburg for the meeting of world

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It's the first time Donald Trump has met

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the Russian President Vladimir Putin and the agenda will focus on trade,

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Speaking to the BBC this morning, Theresa May said she was hoping

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to push the international community to clamp down further

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What I am doing here at the G20 is raising the need for us

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to work collectively, internationally, to deal

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with terrorist financing, not just large sum of money

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financing terrorism, but also to find ways of working

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with the financial services, with banks and others, to identify

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the smaller-scale transactions that can sometimes lead

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Let's get the latest from Hamburg and talk

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to our deputy political editor, John Pienaar.

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So that's her campaign on if you like to get agreement on trying to

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fight back on terrorism globally. What else is she talking about? That

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the message of the morning, get companies to do more practically and

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politically to do with the sourcing of finance for terrorism. You

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wouldn't expect a huge row about the principle that. Are expected to

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appear in the final communique. She will be meeting Donald Trump and the

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Chinese leader. Those will be interesting fascinating meetings,

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especially with Donald Trump because Theresa May is one of many leaders

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here who want Donald Trump to rethink on all sorts of things,

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notably the climate change agreement in Paris and she was speaking to me

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early on and said she hoped he would change his mind and come back on

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board with the Paris climate change deal. She is taking on these

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challenges. It's worth pointing out that as the list of global

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challenges grow, climate change, North Korea, disagreements about

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trade, it's a problem for Theresa May that the influence of the UK

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could be said to be shrinking in the aftermath of Brexit and the election

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where his authority has diminished and she's not got another power as

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she had before the boat. How much impact can she and the UK really

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have in this particular forum, bearing in mind the result of the

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election? Well, she's here, presenting and promoting the idea of

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a global Britain, as she puts it, reaching out to the world but

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there's no denying there was an issue there. Her former Cabinet

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colleague William Hague was saying there's a problem with losing

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influence as a result of Brexit, but she says she's going to not be

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intimidated, she will be bold, and that in itself is a recognition that

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she has a challenge on her hands. Thank you very much. This is really

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about the meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. What do

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you expect? What's interesting about due 20s is it about alliance

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building and diplomacy, and it's not the language Donald Trump

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specialises in, let's be honest, but when it comes to Vladimir Putin in

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particular, back home, he's got a problem with the perception that his

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campaign was too close to the Kremlin and people around him are

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too close to it, so he has got a tricky task today to show he

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standing up to Russia but also trying in some ways to deliver on

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what he said in his campaign for the presidency which is left reset

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relations. This is about cooperation, and collaboration,

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multilateralism, and Donald Trump is much more about winners and losers

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and individual nations. Is this going to be seen to some extent,

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particularly in the light of him pulling the USA out of the Paris

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climate change, is the retiring the USA from global politics in that

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sense? That's the problem, his problem is like Theresa May's. Has

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Britain lost its clout because of Brexit? Hast Donald Trump by virtue

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of being who he is and trying to reach French on things like

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globalisation, has he taken the USA's influence off the table? They

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are still a hugely strong economic nation so it's got a lot of clout,

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but the big problem is on things like Iraq and, climate change, it

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looks like the USA is being gently persuaded to come on board with

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anybody else but whether or not Donald Trump agrees to it is the big

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question. OK, let's leave it there. The question for today is what does

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the French government want to ban? At the end of the show we'll

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see if Paul can give The cream of British

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business is being courted by the Government later today,

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to try to get them board The Government is keen to show that

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Britain is open for business. Earlier this week, Liam Fox,

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the International Trade Secretary, said the UK remains "extremely

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attractive to foreign investors" a year on from the European Union

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referendum, and announced there was a record level of foreign

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investment last year. The Liberal Democrats,

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however, point out that despite this the number

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of new jobs created by foreign

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investment fell by 9%. Later today, the Brexit Secretary

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David Davis will meet senior business leaders including the heads

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of the Confederation Of British Industry

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and manufacturers organisation EEF at his county residence

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in Chevening, to try They've also created an EU

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Exit Business Advisory Group that will meet every fortnight,

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where business leaders Some are certainly

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doing that already. Yesterday, the CBI Director

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General Carolyn Fairburn called for Britain to remain

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in the single market and customs union until a trade agreement

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had been concluded. However, the EU isn't

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making life easy. Michel Barnier, the EU's chief

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negotiator, warned yesterday that frictionless trade, where goods can

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move between Britain and the EU without too many checks and red

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tape, is "not possible". We've been joined by

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the Conservative MP Kit Malthouse, and by James McGrory,

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who runs Open Britain which is campaigning for the UK

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to stay in the single market. Welcome to both of you. The CBI has

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called for us to stay in the single market and the customs union Intel

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deal has been done. Do you agree? I don't, there needs to be some kind

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of implementation phase that we reach when negotiations are done but

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saying now that we will stay in both before there's a free trade

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agreement just means the EU has an incentive not to agree a free-trade

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agreement because they get us within the structure but without any

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control over the rules so no, I'm not sure it's good. The CBI

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represent large businesses generally. It doesn't surprise me

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they would want to cling onto this kind of system which are suited for

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so long. Small businesses would have a different view. Is that how you

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regard the CBI, they are clinging to a corporate racket? Yes, it's

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generally accepted a bit of accompanist racket. They favour

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business is not as a forward facing, not as globally facing, and they

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like the protectionist approach of the EU so doesn't surprise me they

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want to hang onto it but I agree this notion that should be some kind

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of cliff edge, sudden transition, might not be entirely helpful and

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having a transition phase might not be a bad thing. It's no surprise the

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CBI saying this but from a negotiating position you wouldn't

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want to state here and now as a Government that that would be

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opposition throughout a transitional phase because then you've played all

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your cards? I think it falls into the same category as no deal is

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better than a bad deal mantra. There are negotiations, compromises on

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both sides, but this posturing which is only going to leave as being

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worse off, seems pointless. Surely the best thing is to get a deal good

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for business and in response to this corporate racket at the CBI, I

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fundamentally disagree with that. It's also backed by the Trade Union

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Congress today, employers and employees, as a sensible way

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forward. I don't think the Government are being upfront with

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people about the trade-offs that will happen if we leave the single

:10:09.:10:12.

market and Customs union. We'll come to that in a moment. You say it's

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all posturing but by declaring so early on if you like, it's sending

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out a message, isn't it, to the EU, and also for many people who want to

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see Brexit happen sooner rather than later, there was a possibility we'll

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never leave? We are doing the opposite. We are saying whatever

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happens in these negotiations, no matter how they go, and I have found

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a single person who thinks it will be done by March 2019 in its

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entirety, we are imposing our own red line saying we will definitely

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go to the single market, the customs union, controlling immigration...

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You can see why your position which is absolutely stated in Clare, it

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will lead people to believe, a bit like the song, Hotel California, you

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never leave. You can leave the EU would been the single market. Norway

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are not in the EU but are in the single market. The Government

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promised people frictionless trade, deal with the exact same benefits

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but I'm saying is not possible unless you stay in. It's not just

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James McGrory saying this but so does Michel Barnier and he should

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know as the chief negotiator for the EU. Is it realistic to say we will

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have completed a free-trade agreement with the EU by March 2019?

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Yes, I think it's realistic because we are starting from a completely

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different position than most people are who are negotiating free-trade

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agreements so, the moment, there are no barriers. In most free-trade

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agreement to have dubbed long negotiations about the barriers

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which exist which you then remove but in this negotiation, it's about

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the barriers the EU want to put up and that means that things should be

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a lot easier and quicker, not least also don't forget, because it's

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very, very much in their financial interest to have a free-trade

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agreement with us, they sell more to us than we do to them and that's why

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I think we should be concentrating a lot more on the rest of the world

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but nevertheless, it would be in their rational interests to want a

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free-trade agreement. You have to rely on the fact that despite the

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loss of the negotiations are unelected, the elected leaders of

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the EU will want a free-trade agreement because it's in their best

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interests. The wealth believes we could do an agreement by March 2019

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apart from the Government and Brexiteers? The opponents don't. I

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mean, if we're talking about businesses, groups of people and

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organisations in favour of Britain leaving the EU, the wealth believes

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we can realistically do it in that time frame? I can't pick somebody

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out for you but if you look at the work of the Licata instituted, they

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assembled as there is a trade negotiations from across the world

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and the universally said it was possible for the UK to do it. Michel

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Barnier is going to say that frictionless trade is not possible

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and that his negotiating position. We shouldn't fall for the line from

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the European Union, Britain will negotiate from its own standpoint.

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Of course, I will be the first to put my hand up and say I was wrong

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if we do get a free-trade agreement which has frictionless trade and the

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exact same benefits we get from single market membership and customs

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union membership. You would say that because you don't want it and you

:13:31.:13:34.

want is to stay in the single market and for many people that would mean

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we haven't left the EU. Yes, you would stand in opposition say is not

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possible because we want to try to persuade people away. The onus

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should be on the people who say is possible to prove it. You can prove

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what's possible with a single market, we have seen the trading

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benefits and you can quantify them. Just going around saying we can have

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the same benefit isn't the same as actually tangibly proving it. I

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don't think business agrees with it or anyone other than a hard group of

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Brexiteers does. Our business is valuable to the EU when you look at

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the trade deficit figures. They need us just as much, to some extent,

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than we need them. I'm not saying a deal isn't possible, I think it is

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possible, but is it possible by actually October 20 18th which is

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when we need to do it? And is it as good a deal as we have got now? I

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don't think so. Let's talk about the frictionless trade. You say about

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putting up tariffs rather than removing them but if tariffs did

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become imposed on certain goods, are you saying we would not be in a

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position where things would be held at the ports where, at the moment of

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course, we are part of a customs union and single market, goods

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travel freely and people but goods travel freely across the borders,

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cross the Channel, and we know hearing a bus yesterday, they could

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be held at the ports, we don't know the infrastructure to deal with

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that. That could cause chaos. I don't think that's true. We had the

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guy at the Inland Revenue dealing with all of this stuff in front of

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the Treasury committee before the election and he completely refuted

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that. We said will be need more space at Dover to store stuff? He

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said absolutely not because most of it is a electronically done, in

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advance, 95% of stuff goes through frictionless Lee, even from outside

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the EU, it passes through and he thinks the system could cope with a

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pretty well as they do with trade from outside the EU. Sony didn't

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seem to think it would be a problem identity White would be.

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How much pressure is there on David Davis and Liam Fox who is trying to

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put in place this free trade deal although he can't do them while we

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are negotiating, to try to say to people like James McGrory that the

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trade-off will be an advantage? This is about how pragmatic you can

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be in delivering Brexit which is the main task of the David Davis.

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What you have seen here is a variation on whether it is practical

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or impractical. David Davis is more aromatic than

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people would expect which is why he is popular amongst Tory members and

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business. He is try to work through the problem.

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Someone described it as 3D chess. You need the brain the size of a

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planet. It is a problem-solving issue.

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The most important thing for the Tory Government is delivering,

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making sure those people who voted get what they voted for.

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When we talk about a cliff edge, and if there were a situation where

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button did come out on WTO rules, the EU has two operate by those

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rules, they cannot maliciously take action that would harm Britain.

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What is the problem? I agree with me Barnier who was honest enough to say

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it is the worst of a lose - lose situation. This is no deal is better

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than a bad deal rancher... It is the equivalent of either you do this or

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I will shoot myself in the head and you in the foot.

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Is that the worst situation? Of course not. The huge amount of

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our trade is done on WTO rules. Our second biggest market is the USA.

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You are not going to take a penal deal over no deal. We need to be

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clear. There is a lot of rhetoric from Michel Barnier, some from our

:17:47.:17:52.

side. Cabinet Minister is reported to say

:17:53.:17:56.

Liam Fox is struggling to find a way of balancing losses.

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Negotiating sides are trying to find the moving parts in positions. The

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deal won't become clear for another year.

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It will have to become clear in a year.

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These things get done at the end. That is true. At the moment they are

:18:15.:18:21.

sounding each other out. We can fume which makes good TV, the truth is we

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won't know the real position for another few months.

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Thank you very much. The Palace Of Westminster

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is to undergo something of a makeover this weekend when it

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will be lit up in rainbow The annual festival is already

:18:34.:18:36.

underway, with the biggest parade set to make its way

:18:37.:18:42.

through the capital on Saturday. The decision to light up Parliament

:18:43.:18:47.

marks 50 years since the part-decriminalisation

:18:48.:18:49.

of homosexuality in since the presentation

:18:50.:18:51.

of the Wolfenden Report in 1957, where the Government

:18:52.:18:58.

said homosexuality The House Of Lords has

:18:59.:18:59.

been behind the move. The Lord Speaker Norman

:19:00.:19:04.

Fowler joins me now. Welcome back to the Daily Politics.

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Why are you lighting up the House Of Lords like this?

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I hope it is a symbol of those people who are still in this country

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being discriminated against, and certainly I hope a symbol outside

:19:24.:19:30.

this country to all those countries where homosexuality is illegal,

:19:31.:19:33.

people are prosecuted, and other countries like Russia where they

:19:34.:19:38.

simply pushed to the bottom. It is to say here at Westminster we not

:19:39.:19:44.

only take this seriously, we act and support you.

:19:45.:19:49.

Have you been slow off the mark? Same-sex marriage was passed in 2013

:19:50.:19:54.

yet the LGBT flag only flew from portcullis last year. Has not been

:19:55.:19:59.

done to raise awareness, commemorate the fights are gay rights in

:20:00.:20:02.

Parliament? Never enough has been done but we

:20:03.:20:06.

have been making dramatic progress. You mentioned equal marriage. That

:20:07.:20:13.

was a very, very substantial move forward. What was interesting about

:20:14.:20:18.

that is, we expected the House Of Commons to approve it but, in

:20:19.:20:23.

percentage terms, the House Of Lords voted more than the House Of

:20:24.:20:26.

Commons. Does this showed the House Of Lords

:20:27.:20:32.

is more enlightened? More than people expected, there is

:20:33.:20:36.

a myth the House Of Lords is full of Tory backwoods men. But, actually,

:20:37.:20:46.

it proved last year it has a lot of younger members forward-thinking

:20:47.:20:50.

members. Fowler deserves credit, when he was a Cabinet Minister in

:20:51.:20:57.

the 1980s he ran the campaign on AIDS and way back then politicians

:20:58.:21:01.

were treating this seriously even at a time when Margaret Thatcher was

:21:02.:21:05.

talking about section 28 and gay people felt persecuted.

:21:06.:21:10.

There were lots of worthwhile campaigns and organisations would

:21:11.:21:13.

like to promote the work they are doing. Is there a danger you are

:21:14.:21:17.

under pressure to symbolically commemorate all sorts of things or

:21:18.:21:23.

does this stand out on its own? In a sense, this is a question of

:21:24.:21:29.

human rights. Here, people are being discriminated against. We are

:21:30.:21:34.

talking about stigma and giving people equal rights. That does

:21:35.:21:39.

perhaps mark it out from other campaigns. There is no reason we

:21:40.:21:43.

can't do other campaigns but I don't think, we don't want to have

:21:44.:21:48.

campaigns of this kind every week. It is notable this is the first time

:21:49.:21:52.

we have had a campaign like that on the front of the House Of Lords.

:21:53.:21:58.

Mentioning B DUP and arrangements with the Government, what does it

:21:59.:22:01.

say about the UK Parliament at a time when there is this deal between

:22:02.:22:07.

the Government and a Northern Irish party which is against same-sex

:22:08.:22:11.

marriage legislation? As you know I am totally independent

:22:12.:22:17.

in all these things. Except I did press strongly for equal marriage.

:22:18.:22:24.

It is a free vote issue. It won't come as any surprise to the DUP that

:22:25.:22:28.

I don't agree for one moment with their position. There we are. There

:22:29.:22:33.

are still people in this country, it is the whole point of what we are

:22:34.:22:39.

doing, leave aside equal marriage, who are antagonistic to gay people.

:22:40.:22:43.

We have to seek to convert them to the fact that gay people have equal

:22:44.:22:50.

rights to everyone else. Thank you for coming in.

:22:51.:22:52.

There's just time for our run-down of the political week,

:22:53.:22:55.

On Monday, James Brokenshire said a deal at Stormont was achievable.

:22:56.:23:14.

Kensington and Chelsea Council announced a new leader by the

:23:15.:23:21.

Government sent in a task force. The year after his enquire into the

:23:22.:23:25.

Aragua, Sir John Chilcot said Tony Blair was not straight with the

:23:26.:23:29.

nation about his decisions in the run-up to the conflict.

:23:30.:23:32.

President Trump and present Putin are meeting in Hamburg. There were

:23:33.:23:38.

angry scenes outside with the so-called welcome to help Arch

:23:39.:23:43.

attended by 20,000. The former head of BBC Westminster

:23:44.:23:49.

Robbie Gibb has flipped jobs to become the new director of

:23:50.:23:52.

communications for Theresa May. You could say out of the frying pan and

:23:53.:23:56.

into the fire. Nicholas Soames posted a picture of

:23:57.:23:59.

himself stabbing, which makes him really call, apparently. -- dabbing.

:24:00.:24:11.

We have a week and a half until recess, some say that is what

:24:12.:24:18.

Theresa May has it to do, make it to recess. Is her position is safe in

:24:19.:24:23.

the short term? Safe until July 20 shall we say.

:24:24.:24:30.

Mid-ranking Tory ministers are thinking, she is doing so much

:24:31.:24:35.

damage to our brand, Labour are leading in the polls, Shikhar remain

:24:36.:24:39.

for the foreseeable future. They are talking about before or after

:24:40.:24:45.

conference. David Davis has been important in

:24:46.:24:49.

the Brexit negotiations but he famously said, when he was appointed

:24:50.:24:56.

to cabinet, this is my last job in Government, in politics. Did he mean

:24:57.:24:59.

my last job in politics is delivering Brexit in which case he

:25:00.:25:04.

could be Prime Minister? People suspect it was the fact he has this

:25:05.:25:11.

one national mission. If so, it seems quite implausible, a Prime

:25:12.:25:14.

Minister who was not a Brexiteer, Tory MP is -- Tory MPs believe they

:25:15.:25:23.

need an out and out Brexiteer. There is a feeling Tory MPs are

:25:24.:25:27.

united by the fact they want to keep the Tories in Government and not

:25:28.:25:31.

lead to a situation where Jeremy Corbyn leading the Labour Party

:25:32.:25:34.

could take over. That is the most terrifying thing

:25:35.:25:39.

from this opinion poll. Backbenchers saying there is no way we can have a

:25:40.:25:43.

general election. Not until after Brexit. And the British public

:25:44.:25:49.

wouldn't really want a general election right now. As Brenda in

:25:50.:25:57.

Bristol made it clear to all of us. That is priced in. But who will

:25:58.:26:04.

emerge as David Davis's main rival. There aren't that many potential

:26:05.:26:09.

people in the field. Amber Rudd has been talked about,

:26:10.:26:24.

and there are some bright eyed young contenders.

:26:25.:26:28.

Jeremy Corbyn has consolidated his grip on the Labour Party.

:26:29.:26:31.

How are they going to do that? Is there a threat to some Labour MPs to

:26:32.:26:36.

fall into line or risk being deselected?

:26:37.:26:42.

We have had mixed messages. Ian Lavery the chair made clear to us he

:26:43.:26:46.

wanted to look again at the reflection rules for Labour MPs.

:26:47.:26:49.

Nobody had talked about it. Somehow members would force sitting

:26:50.:27:07.

MPs to be reselected. That is being reviewed.

:27:08.:27:15.

Jeremy himself is allowing his lieutenants to ride both forces, on

:27:16.:27:20.

the one hand, hardliners like Chris Williamson, and Ian Lavery has

:27:21.:27:26.

changed his vision saying we are a genuine broad church. We don't need

:27:27.:27:32.

to change reselection rules very much.

:27:33.:27:36.

The report some Labour MPs are being asked to apologise over criticism

:27:37.:27:42.

for Jeremy Corbyn, it is hard to see how you marry both sides.

:27:43.:27:52.

It is difficult. A lot of MPs who were critical of

:27:53.:27:56.

Jeremy Corbyn are coming under pressure from their members.

:27:57.:28:02.

I detect a sense of pragmatism. We talked about it with the Tory Party,

:28:03.:28:07.

the same for the Labour Party, MPs saying we don't need another row.

:28:08.:28:15.

The question is, first the next Labour conference, will this be

:28:16.:28:20.

raised? There's just time before we go

:28:21.:28:24.

to find out the answer to our quiz. What does the French

:28:25.:28:27.

Government want to ban? The answer is the sale

:28:28.:28:30.

of cars using an internal combustion engine, which will be

:28:31.:28:38.

outlawed from 2040 in France. Thanks to Paul Waugh

:28:39.:28:43.

and all my guests. Andrew will be back

:28:44.:28:48.

on Sunday on BBC One at 11, And I'll be back here

:28:49.:28:50.

on BBC Two on Monday, but I don't, like,

:28:51.:28:54.

love it as much as Lucy. MAN: What makes you two make

:28:55.:29:13.

different from each other?

:29:14.:29:16.

Jo Coburn is joined by Paul Waugh of Huffington Post UK for the latest political news from Westminster, including recent developments on Brexit and live coverage from the G20 summit in Hamburg.


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