Browse content similar to 13/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
The husband of a woman jailed
in Iran calls on the Government | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
to be clear that his wife
was on holiday when | 0:00:45 | 0:00:47 | |
she was detained. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
Why did Michael Gove
say that he didn't know | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
what she was doing there? | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
Too hard, too soft, just right. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
All the old arguments re-surface
as the EU Withdrawal Bill | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
returns to the Commons. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
As they continue to argue in
Brussels, can agreement be reached | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
here about the best way forward? | 0:01:06 | 0:01:07 | |
Theresa May thought strong
and stable would be a winning | 0:01:07 | 0:01:12 | |
formula in the general election -
but is it politicians | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
with authenticity that
have the midas touch? | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
And we'll hear from
the architectural historian who's | 0:01:17 | 0:01:22 | |
gone behind the scenes of Big Bens'
multi million pound makeover. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
All that in the next hour
and with us for the whole | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
of the programme today a Labour MP
who's been around Westminster almost | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
as long as Big Ben and has never had
a makeover; Frank Field who chairs | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
the Work and Pensions
Select Commitee. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:42 | |
Also here, the equally authentic
although slightly less long-standing | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
Conservative MP and chair
of the Treasury select | 0:01:45 | 0:01:49 | |
committee, Nicky Morgan. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
Welcome to both of you. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
First this morning, the husband
of the British-Iranian woman, | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe,
has said the government "hasn't done | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
all it could have done" to secure
the release of his wife. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
She was arrested during a visit
to Iran in April 2016, accused | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
of trying to overthrow the regime. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
She says she was simply
on holiday visiting relatives. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
Last week the Foreign Secretary,
Boris Johnson, was accused | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
of worsening Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe's
plight by saying | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
that she was teaching
journalists in the country - | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
a claim that's been seized
upon by some in Iran. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
Yesterday, Boris Johnson's Cabinet
Colleague, Michael Gove, | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
appeared to add to the uncertainty
about what Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
was doing there. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:40 | |
I don't know. One of the things I
want to stress is that... You don't | 0:02:40 | 0:02:45 | |
know? Is that there is no reason why
Nad anyone Zaghari-Ratcliffe should | 0:02:45 | 0:02:52 | |
be in prison in Iran so far as I
know. No evidence has been produced | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
suggesting she should be detained.
It appears here to be harming the | 0:02:56 | 0:03:04 | |
human rights of someone whose plight
necessarily moves us all. You say | 0:03:04 | 0:03:09 | |
that you don't know who she was
doing. Her husband is clear she was | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
on holiday with her child. In that
case I take exactly her husband's | 0:03:12 | 0:03:17 | |
assurance in that regard. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
Responding to Michael Gove's
comments, Nazanin's husband, | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
Richard Ratcliffe, has written
to Foreign Office office to "remind | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
all Cabinet Ministers
that the Government position | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
is that the UK Government has
no doubt that Nazanin | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
was in Iran on holiday". | 0:03:30 | 0:03:31 | |
Mr Ratcliffe spoke to
the BBC this morning. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
I wrote yesterday in fact after we
saw and I didn't catch it live the | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
comments, but obviously my cousins
did and they got very upset and | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
watched it through. Don't get me
wrong, he said some good things | 0:03:45 | 0:03:50 | |
about Iran. He said Nazanin is on
holiday and is innocent, it | 0:03:50 | 0:03:58 | |
shouldn't be for Cabinet Ministers
to be fudging it. I wrote to the | 0:03:58 | 0:04:02 | |
Foreign Office on an e-mail setting
out that the Government's position | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
was clear in Parliament that the UK
Government has no doubt that she was | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
there on holiday and if they could
please make sure all the Cabinet | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
Ministers are are aware of it. Boris
Johnson was asked about it this | 0:04:13 | 0:04:22 | |
morning. Let me say on Iran and
consular cases, they are all very | 0:04:22 | 0:04:27 | |
sensitive and the key thing to
understand is that we are working | 0:04:27 | 0:04:32 | |
very, very hard and intensively and
impartially on all those cases. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
Thank you very much. See you later,
thank you. Nicky Morgan, his | 0:04:36 | 0:04:43 | |
comments about the fact that Nazanin
was teaching journalists in Iran may | 0:04:43 | 0:04:50 | |
have worsened her situation. Your
colleague Anna Soubry has called for | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
him to be sacked. Do you agree with
her? I think he should be | 0:04:54 | 0:04:59 | |
considering his position, yes. If I
thought sacking was going to make a | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
difference... I mean the important
point is the safety and security of | 0:05:03 | 0:05:13 | |
Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe. I cannot
begin to imagine what went through | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
Boris Johnson and I'm afraid to say
Michael Gove's minds. We all know, | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
particularly after a week of
coverage that she was in the country | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
visiting her parents with her young
daughter, that's it, end of story. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:29 | |
Michael was right to say there was
no justification whatsoever for the | 0:05:29 | 0:05:34 | |
Iranian authorities to hold her. How
irresponsible is it then of Boris | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
Johnson if it's true that he had
just not read the briefs properly? | 0:05:37 | 0:05:43 | |
If that is true, and that is a big
if, I don't know, but that is | 0:05:43 | 0:05:47 | |
inexcusable. I've been a Secretary
of State but not a Foreign Secretary | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
where somebody's security is at risk
like in this case but frankly there | 0:05:50 | 0:05:55 | |
are times when being a Secretary of
State is not glamorous, involves | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
reading boxes of paper every week
and every night, that is the job you | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
are asked to do on behalf of your
country. If he doesn't want to do | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
it, somebody else should be given
the job. Listening to him in | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
Brussels saying the case needs to be
handled sensitively and impartially, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:15 | |
what does he mean? I have no idea. I
just don't understand why he... I | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
don't know what advice he is getting
that says this morning would have | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
been a... This morning would have
been a perfect opportunity to say, I | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
heard the comments of her husband,
I'm very soyry, I got it wrong and | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
the situation is clear, we are doing
all we can as a Government to put | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
pressure on the Iranian authorities
and will use everything we've got | 0:06:34 | 0:06:44 | |
disposal to get her out of prison.
Is he the right man to deal with | 0:06:44 | 0:06:51 | |
this case? The conduct he's shown,
the way he's answered the original | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
question and continued it would
make, I would have thought, any | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
Prime Minister think, do I have the
right person as Foreign Secretary | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
because, sadly this is only one of a
number of cases where there are | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
British nationals detained around
the world but obviously Iran is a | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
particularly difficult area of the
world to deal with. Richard | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
Ratcliffe told the BBC today that he
didn't want Boris Johnson to be | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
sacked because he could do more good
by actually now trying to get his | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
wife released. Many Labour
politicians have called for him to | 0:07:19 | 0:07:27 | |
be sacked, Jeremy Corbyn, Tulip
Sadiq and Sadiq Khan, Keir Starmer | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
however told the programme that why
he should have been fired a while | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
ago, we should reflect on what
Richard is saying this morning. Do | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
you think it would be better for him
to stay to see this through? I think | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
Keir start Searle right on that. For
-- Keir Starmer is right on that. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
For Boris Johnson to say this case
needs to be handled delicately seems | 0:07:43 | 0:07:50 | |
almost a contradiction in terms the
given his character. The role he has | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
played is appalling with Michael
Gove. The idea that you can, as | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
Foreign Secretary, without learning
your brief, do this, and then for | 0:07:59 | 0:08:04 | |
other Cabinet Ministers to put their
foot in your big mouth. Why didn't | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
Michael Gove say, this is not my
department, that the Government's | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
line is quite clear, I have nothing
to say on Boris Johnson's comments | 0:08:13 | 0:08:19 | |
this person is innocent, she was
there on holiday, but we all know | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
this is an evil regime that will use
her and use this maybe to increase | 0:08:23 | 0:08:31 | |
her sentence. I think that is
shameful and both of them, both | 0:08:31 | 0:08:36 | |
Michael Gove and Boris Johnson
should hang their heads in shame for | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
the role they've played in this.
Richard Ratcliffe has said he thinks | 0:08:40 | 0:08:47 | |
he should stay. They've spoken and
they feel it's perhaps his best | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
chance to get his wife released. But
why do you think - I know you are | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
not in the mind of Michael Gove -
what would be the motivation for | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
saying he didn't know what she was
doing there, bearing in mind there's | 0:08:59 | 0:09:03 | |
been so much publicity around it and
the Government's clarified the | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
position that she was there on
holiday. Do they know something we | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
don't? Well, look, possibly and I
didn't see the clip live yesterday | 0:09:09 | 0:09:15 | |
morning so I don't know whether
there was something before. But as I | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
said, I don't know what was going
through the minds of Michael and | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
Boris when they said what they said.
I think it's right to listen, of | 0:09:21 | 0:09:26 | |
course, to Nazanin's husband up
close, he's suffering the agonies of | 0:09:26 | 0:09:29 | |
his wife and daughter not being
here, it must be dominating every | 0:09:29 | 0:09:33 | |
single second of his life. If that's
what he thinks OK, but I would say | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
that people sl to be very mindful of
everything they say in a case like | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
this. Michael Gove in that interview
yesterday was backing up Boris | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
Johnson's position, saying it was
very much the Iranian authorities' | 0:09:46 | 0:09:51 | |
fault that this happened. That is
right. Of course it is. Is this | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
about Michael Gove protecting his
Brexiteer colleague? I don't think | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
it's about that. Undoubtedly when
you are on any kind of sofa and in | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
the Cabinet, you are there to stand
up and to defend your Cabinet | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
colleagues on the basis of
collective responsibility and | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
supporting each other but I think
Frank has provided a perfect script | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
that Michael could have used and
perhaps he'll ask you next time | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
Frank for advice before he goes on
the Marr programme. What is so | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
worrying about this, isn't it, is
that if he was going into defend his | 0:10:23 | 0:10:28 | |
colleague, God help what is going to
happen when Boris Johnson's enemies | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
set on him. It's opened the whole
issue again which was beginning to | 0:10:31 | 0:10:36 | |
die down, if it could die down, but
I agree with what's been the theme | 0:10:36 | 0:10:41 | |
of this. I mean, the real culprit is
Iran, an evil regime. We ought to | 0:10:41 | 0:10:47 | |
bear that in mind. But we don't go
around making it easy for them to be | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
nasty to British citizens. All
right. For goodness sake. All right. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:57 | |
Now it's time for our daily
quiz and it seems there | 0:10:57 | 0:10:59 | |
is no aspect of our lives
that is unaffected by Brexit. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
According to reports in the press
this morning Michel Barnier | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
is warning that there could be
a rather awkward travel ban | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
if the negotiations collapse. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:08 | |
So what are they threatening to stop
crossing the border. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
Hopefully eurocrats. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
On Friday the European Commission's
Chief Negotiator Michel Barnier said | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
the UK had to provide "vital"
clarification on the total sum it's | 0:11:29 | 0:11:34 | |
prepared to pay to the EU. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
He said the British need to be clear
in the next fortnight, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
before the December EU Council
summit where leaders of the EU27 | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
will judge whether or not it's time
to begin trade negotiations. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
But as we approach this crucial
point in the negotiations, | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
what other outstanding Brexit issues
are occupying the Prime | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
Minister here at home? | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
This week the EU Withdrawal Bill
is back in Parliament - | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
with a controversial amendment
attached setting the | 0:12:01 | 0:12:02 | |
exact date of Brexit. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:08 | |
If it succeeds, 11pm on the 29th
March 2019 will be fixed in law | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
as the time the UK leaves the EU -
regardless of the state | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
of negotiations. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:17 | |
It's unclear if many
Conservatives will vote | 0:12:17 | 0:12:23 | |
against that amendment -
but one who will, Anna Soubry, has | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
called it "a very foolish mistake". | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
Closer to the Cabinet table
it's not clear things | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
are easier for Theresa May -
she's had a letter from Michael Gove | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
and Boris Johnson. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:36 | |
That's reported to say some
government departments are focusing | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
"insufficient energy"
on Brexit preparations... | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
And it apparently features a demand
that a transition deal be | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
a maximum of two years. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:47 | |
Labour have been piling
on the pressure too - | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer
has been outlining the party's | 0:12:51 | 0:12:58 | |
own transition amendments. | 0:12:58 | 0:12:59 | |
They're calling for a guaranteed
role for the European Court | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
of Justice during any transitional
period. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
But the action isn't
all on the green benches - | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
today Brexit Committee chair
Hilary Benn will meet David Davis. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
To discuss the release of Brexit
impact assessments into 58 different | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
sectors of the UK economy. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
And Theresa May's hosting business
leaders from across the EU | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
in Number 10 Downing Street -
they want a transition deal that | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
preserves the status quo. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:24 | |
Well we can talk now about that
to our Business Editor, Simon Jack, | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
who is in Downing Street. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
. Welcome, Simon. Is Theresa May
going to be hearing anything from or | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
saying anything to these groups that
hasn't been said before? | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
Well, this will be the first time
that she'll speak directly to these | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
business groups, if you like, the
European equivalent of the CBI. She | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
invited them in to get their take on
how best to proceed to minimise any | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
damage. Basically the message is,
there is mutual self-interest here, | 0:13:53 | 0:13:58 | |
if there are problems at Dover, for
example, there'll be problems at | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
Calais and which need to work
together to minimise the problems. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
The businesses want to stress the
urgency of the situation today, the | 0:14:04 | 0:14:10 | |
head of business Europe wrote
recently to Donald Tusk saying she | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
was concerned at the slow progress.
They want a transition deal, just | 0:14:14 | 0:14:19 | |
like their counterparts here, they
want a transitional deal arranged so | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
everyone will have an idea of what
it will look like by the time we | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
come to the December talks. Number
Ten say this is unfair, transitional | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
deal with the ECJ still in charge is
also stated Government policy and | 0:14:30 | 0:14:35 | |
when it comes to the slow pace of
progress, It Takes Two to tango or | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
not in this case. This is the
negotiation. That is holding them | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
up. The other by-product Number Ten
will be hoping for is that the | 0:14:42 | 0:14:47 | |
business group also go back home to
their own politicians and say, there | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
could be some grave damage to our
businesses as well. One German | 0:14:50 | 0:14:54 | |
business group said it could cost
the German automotive sector £200 | 0:14:54 | 0:15:02 | |
billion. They need the progress and
the transitional deal agreed so they | 0:15:02 | 0:15:08 | |
can deal wit in December.
Interesting the point you made about | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
two to tan goal or not in this case
-- tango. Is there any evidence they | 0:15:12 | 0:15:20 | |
are pressurising their own national
governments or have done so up until | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
now, as well as come here to the UK
to pressurise Theresa May? It's very | 0:15:23 | 0:15:33 | |
interesting view as that, I was
talking to a big German car | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
manufacturer recently, Theresa May
says when you go back to Angela | 0:15:37 | 0:15:42 | |
Merkel and tell her your concerns,
they say Angela Merkel says I have | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
not got the bandwidth for this at
the moment, I am trying to form a | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
government, speak to Brussels, not
Berlin. It seems that back channel | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
of isms is talking through
politicians is working particularly | 0:15:55 | 0:15:58 | |
well. Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry,
this amendment fixing the Brexit | 0:15:58 | 0:16:05 | |
date is three foolish, will you be
voting against it? I haven't decided | 0:16:05 | 0:16:09 | |
why we are putting this date on the
face of the bill. It seems to me a | 0:16:09 | 0:16:15 | |
poor negotiating tactic. And you
know, the bill is not about Brexit | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
per se, it's about the process,
that's what government ministers | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
have always explain to us, it's
about process, getting the law, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
rather than Brexit whether it
happens are not. It's happening, we | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
have had the vote, we have to your
Article 50 process, it's about how | 0:16:32 | 0:16:37 | |
Parliament scrutinises the law. Why
is there a need to fix the date? I | 0:16:37 | 0:16:43 | |
have four amendments, my first
tomorrow was fixing the date. Why? | 0:16:43 | 0:16:49 | |
It seems absurd that you would go
through this process and not have a | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
date when this transition would be
finished but if I could finish this, | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
I think the government has very big
criticisms now about the drive of | 0:16:58 | 0:17:05 | |
the government... Whether in fact I
mean, I've asked the government for | 0:17:05 | 0:17:11 | |
a Brexit Cabinet which is in
constant session to drive these | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
negotiations, to be doing all this
work behind the lines in Europe, | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
above as Mrs, what it is likely to
cost you and so on, one closes to | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
set the date, a second clause is to
move the legislation, regulation | 0:17:22 | 0:17:28 | |
over, the third is that Parliament
decides how we review that and the | 0:17:28 | 0:17:33 | |
fourth is a safe haven and I believe
just as tomorrow they are accepting | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
my first clause, when they get to
the hand-to-hand fighting in the | 0:17:37 | 0:17:43 | |
Lords, there is no way, no
guillotine, cut off process... They | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
will actually jettison most of the
spill and we will be left with a | 0:17:47 | 0:17:53 | |
four clause bill about getting us
out on time with the very clear | 0:17:53 | 0:17:59 | |
legislation in here, how we review
it... They are worried you are going | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
to thwart this bill unless it is in
law? They were worried that the | 0:18:03 | 0:18:09 | |
Article 50 bill wasn't going to go
through, the second reading of the | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
spill, ministers and those who think
Brexit is a great idea need to stop | 0:18:12 | 0:18:17 | |
worrying about trying to justify and
trying to hold onto the result of | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
the referendum, the result is there,
it's happened, this country is | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
leading the EU and I'm afraid to say
the Prime Minister's tone deaf, tin | 0:18:24 | 0:18:31 | |
eared article on Friday was
guaranteed to continue to deepen | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
divisions in the Conservative Party
rather than trying to heal them | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
which is what you should be doing. I
have won agreement with Frank on | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
this, the drive that is needed to
get this stuff done and all the | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
other things that government needs
to be doing. Right. Why are you in a | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
quandary as to whether to vote
against it? I still don't | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
understand, this bill has been
explained to us by ministers, David | 0:18:53 | 0:18:57 | |
Davis, who says Bill, you people
should have no problems with this... | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
What's wrong with putting an end
date on it? That's more about | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
Brexit, and it happening or not
happening, I except it's happening, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
we have Article 50 which is a clear
two-year process, at the end of | 0:19:10 | 0:19:15 | |
March 2019 we will not be members of
the EU, this is by Parliament and | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
the rights of Parliament. Those who
know about negotiating strategies | 0:19:19 | 0:19:24 | |
say it's a bad idea to put a hard
date in at the end on the face of | 0:19:24 | 0:19:28 | |
the bill, that's not what this bill
is designed to do. Those who know | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
about negotiations and in charge of
what's going on. That's a bigger, | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
broader issue. Whole thing is
meandering over the place, there is | 0:19:36 | 0:19:40 | |
no central drive and the key fact
is, that when we withdraw, if there | 0:19:40 | 0:19:47 | |
is no agreement, there is no money
coming in so the empty bowls from | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
Poland and all the rest will be
coming up saying, where is our money | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
to the Germans and the Germans will
say there is no money, there's going | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
to be a mega- crisis. At this stage,
because they need our money, the | 0:19:58 | 0:20:04 | |
boot will go on to the other foot
and we need to stress that, how will | 0:20:04 | 0:20:11 | |
start to come do us, the nearer we
get to the final parts of the | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
negotiation. There nothing to worry
about and are you happy with the | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
idea of no deal? I think we should
have a proper, thought out no deal | 0:20:18 | 0:20:23 | |
stands, that might have to happen,
anybody going into negotiations | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
would have that as part of the
armoury. What worries me is, I get | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
no sense this is the biggest issue
facing the government. To do this... | 0:20:30 | 0:20:36 | |
Really, it's the only thing they're
doing, it's part of the problem. The | 0:20:36 | 0:20:47 | |
Cabinet is in constant session like
Churchill's War Cabinet. Are there | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
people in the Cabinet who agree with
Nicky Morgan, recalcitrant | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
remainders who make this difficult?
There is a lot of people who want | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
these negotiations to fail but they
won't actually say so. And there are | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
one or two people, like Ken Clark,
who are quite honest but most people | 0:21:05 | 0:21:10 | |
who want the process to fail, so we
revoke the decision to come out, are | 0:21:10 | 0:21:17 | |
appearing to be, as I say, Wolves in
sheep clothing, saying we must make | 0:21:17 | 0:21:24 | |
this a better this, we must make
this a better that. The aim of many | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
people in Parliament still is to
thwart the process, so we don't | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
withdraw. Let us talk about the
letter from Boris Johnson and | 0:21:31 | 0:21:38 | |
Michael Gove, wasn't appropriate to
send a letter direct Theresa May and | 0:21:38 | 0:21:42 | |
saying there are part of the
government but I've making | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
insufficient progress and there is
insufficient energy and then it | 0:21:46 | 0:21:48 | |
appeared in the papers? Is that the
right way to govern? Couple of | 0:21:48 | 0:21:52 | |
things. Firstly ministers to write
to the Prime Minister on a private | 0:21:52 | 0:21:57 | |
basis, I did it to David Cameron and
I'm sure others did about them is we | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
particularly cared about and want to
see the government agenda. She did | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
have leaked? No. Should they be
directing the Prime Minister? No, | 0:22:04 | 0:22:09 | |
she is the Prime Minister, but they
can say this is my view. The point | 0:22:09 | 0:22:15 | |
about insufficient energy, I think
there is insufficient energy, the | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
budget coming up, that is a time for
government to show energy in other | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
areas. The way people vote in the
referendum will not necessarily be | 0:22:22 | 0:22:27 | |
addressed I Brexit, things like
economic growth, wage increase, the | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
government has got to show energy on
all those things. Insufficient | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
energy was about preparation for
Brexit. I have to say, there is | 0:22:35 | 0:22:40 | |
massive amounts of energy being
expended on Brexit, plenty of the | 0:22:40 | 0:22:46 | |
departments, papers circulated,
insufficient energy, the debate on | 0:22:46 | 0:22:49 | |
the impact assessment you talked
about at the beginning of this | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
piece, we were told there were 58
impact assessments, we are told they | 0:22:52 | 0:22:57 | |
are not there. Do you think they
exist? There are bits and pieces of | 0:22:57 | 0:23:03 | |
paper but I am not sure they could
be pulled together to make an impact | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
assessment. Do you think there
really was... I think there is more | 0:23:06 | 0:23:11 | |
chance that those papers exist than
the chairman of the Tory backbench | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
committee has 40 names to dethrone
Mr macro which I think, I doubt | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
whether he's got many names at all.
But it's interesting that was a | 0:23:21 | 0:23:26 | |
demand for 58 political assessments
or the impact assessments on 58 | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
sectors were asked to be produced
and then they could be produced. Is | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
that because they don't exist in
this order form we presume? I think | 0:23:33 | 0:23:37 | |
that's exactly right. The form they
should exist... If we take the need | 0:23:37 | 0:23:43 | |
for housing, the big uplift we want
in the budget. We need to link that | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
to say there will be a labour supply
coming in to meet that. Until we | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
have home-grown our own supply.
Apple then cut immigration, that | 0:23:51 | 0:23:56 | |
will then give us serious welfare
reforms. We will talk about these | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
things in a moment. Adding across
departments we need, we don't need | 0:23:59 | 0:24:04 | |
apartments trotting out the old
thing from their silos saying what | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
they think... You don't think
there's a need for the impact | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
assessments at all? Let's talk about
labour, you the government lacks | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
drive to push these negotiations
forward, using labour would do a | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
better job with their view on Brexit
and the negotiations when Keir | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
Starmer said leaving the EU without
a deal would cause constitutional | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
disturbance? Britain's don't have
the sort of disturbances, she said. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:37 | |
What is Keir Starmer doing? What I
am saying, the Prime Minister should | 0:24:37 | 0:24:42 | |
now go Top Gear, we should actually
have a Brexit Cabinet as we had a | 0:24:42 | 0:24:46 | |
War Cabinet, the Prime Minister
should offer up places to the | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
opposition leaders to become part of
that, to bind them in, that would | 0:24:50 | 0:24:54 | |
begin to tell us who is making
gestures and who is serious about | 0:24:54 | 0:24:59 | |
getting the very, very best move for
the country. You agree with Sue | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
James Dyson who was a lead vote and
talked about Brexit, give or on the | 0:25:03 | 0:25:09 | |
same site when it comes to this big
decision, he said the only way to | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
make a success Brexit was to make it
easier to hire and fire people and | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
abolish corporation tax? Do you
agree? I don't agree. I thought his | 0:25:17 | 0:25:22 | |
other comments about that we should
prepare for a no deal were much | 0:25:22 | 0:25:27 | |
more, less partial than what one
might expect from a businessman. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:33 | |
Normally he rises above what might
be good for his business by taking a | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
national interest and I don't, it
might be jolly good for his firm and | 0:25:37 | 0:25:42 | |
the brilliance of it but it's
certainly not good news for... But | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
he also said Britain should walk
away now from negotiations, is he | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
right? I think we should consider if
this farce goes on, to say there is | 0:25:49 | 0:25:53 | |
no money coming, you are in real
problems. They need the money, Nicky | 0:25:53 | 0:26:00 | |
Morgan, don't they? There is a black
hole in the budget, that would focus | 0:26:00 | 0:26:03 | |
minds. There are commitments we make
to the EU which we need to honour. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:08 | |
If we don't all of them, they don't
seriously start negotiating... Not | 0:26:08 | 0:26:13 | |
even the 20 billion euros Theresa
May has set... They can string so | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
long, once they get the money there
will be no interest in any way in | 0:26:17 | 0:26:23 | |
coming to an agreement. This is
political... We will let Nicky | 0:26:23 | 0:26:29 | |
Morgan respond. Out there in the
country there are real people with | 0:26:29 | 0:26:33 | |
real jobs reliant on whether its
funding from the EU, people coming | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
from abroad to work, it's all very
well for people like James Dyson, | 0:26:36 | 0:26:41 | |
this is a secret agenda for a number
of people, it's not for the British | 0:26:41 | 0:26:46 | |
people want, it's not an answer to
the issues. I suspect it is obvious | 0:26:46 | 0:26:51 | |
what some of my colleagues would
like and I thought John Major made a | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
brilliant speech a few months ago
saying this is not what the billion | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
people want. We asked James Dyson to
appear before the Treasury Select | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
Committee, he was not available as
Wednesday but could appear on the | 0:27:02 | 0:27:06 | |
Andrew Marr Show. We very much hope
you will come back in the New Year. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
Sunday meetings. You can make your
suggestions. I have plenty of work | 0:27:09 | 0:27:15 | |
on Sundays, thank you. Seven days a
week. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:20 | |
"Take back control of our borders"
that was the oft repeated mantra | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
of Brexit campaigners. | 0:27:23 | 0:27:24 | |
The assumption being that taking
back control would mean reducing | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
the numbers coming into the UK. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:28 | |
But should post-Brexit immigration
actually be increased? | 0:27:28 | 0:27:29 | |
City AM's Rachel Cunliffe thinks so. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
Here's her soapbox. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:38 | |
Taking back control of our borders
doesn't have to mean reducing | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
immigration. Now that Brexit is
happening, there is an assumption | 0:27:51 | 0:27:55 | |
that migration numbers will
inevitably be slashed. This would be | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
a mistake. We don't need the number
of foreign workers to follow in | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
order to to honour the will of the
people who voted for Brexit, the | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
psychology of immigration in the
sense of anxiety and discomfort | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
borders feel about it isn't really
linked to levels at all. During the | 0:28:09 | 0:28:15 | |
EU referendum Australia's points
-based immigration system was | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
heralded by league heavyweights such
as Boris Johnson, Michael Gove Andy | 0:28:18 | 0:28:22 | |
Burnham Nigel Farage. But Australia
has three times the net migration | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
per capita Britain doors. In the
2016 survey just 34% of Australians | 0:28:26 | 0:28:33 | |
thought immigration should be
reduced. In contrast, 77% of Brits | 0:28:33 | 0:28:38 | |
thought immigration was too high in
a survey conduct did for the | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
referendum. Clearly there is a
disconnect the migration levels and | 0:28:40 | 0:28:46 | |
the cultural anxiety surrounding it.
But we can end free movement, take | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
back control and still welcome the
people we need. We should increase | 0:28:50 | 0:28:58 | |
numbers, especially from non-EU
countries like the US, India and | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
China. We should lower their wage
threshold on hiring foreign workers, | 0:29:02 | 0:29:06 | |
nurses and care workers for a start
and make sure all businesses have | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
the skills they need. This isn't a
betrayal of the Brexit vote. It's | 0:29:09 | 0:29:15 | |
honouring it by building immigration
system specifically for the UK. So | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
let's take back control of
immigration and increase it! | 0:29:18 | 0:29:26 | |
Rachel Cunliffe is here with us now.
Welcome. You say in the film before | 0:29:26 | 0:29:31 | |
the referendum 70% of Brits thought
the level of immigration was too | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
high, want an awful lot of lead
voters feel betrayed Britain | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
increases immigration post Brexit? I
think that's what the assumption is | 0:29:40 | 0:29:45 | |
but look at the studies done since
the referendum, you see the anxiety | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
around migration numbers decreases
significantly when you point to | 0:29:49 | 0:29:54 | |
specific jobs, for example, 22% of
British people think that reducing | 0:29:54 | 0:29:59 | |
immigration should come at the
expense of the economy, for example. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
86% of British people would like the
number of highly skilled migrants to | 0:30:02 | 0:30:07 | |
either stay the same or increase
when you start to break it down, | 0:30:07 | 0:30:12 | |
this general discomfort that people
have around migration doesn't | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
actually applies when you are
talking about specific skills we | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
might need. Frank Field? I accept
that. The key reason why Donald | 0:30:18 | 0:30:26 | |
Trump's vote has remained is that
people did not believe he would | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
build a wall but he would be on a
journey to control immigration. I | 0:30:29 | 0:30:33 | |
think some did believe... I don't
think so, I think they thought this | 0:30:33 | 0:30:36 | |
man would try and do something that
other politicians had failed and | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
what I don't sense from the
government, they have any feel about | 0:30:40 | 0:30:43 | |
how they are going to implement that
promise, even if it's over the | 0:30:43 | 0:30:48 | |
longer term. Will people feel
betrayed? I don't think so if we | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
spell out the moment, we are now in
business to handle the economy. We | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
are looking at care workers,
building workers, we will have in | 0:30:57 | 0:31:02 | |
place training skills so that people
can opt for them and become part of | 0:31:02 | 0:31:07 | |
that labour force, only when we've
got a skills supply home grown, so | 0:31:07 | 0:31:14 | |
to speak. Can we start bringing down
the actual totals. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:19 | |
So you want to see the totals coming
down? We know they've got up because | 0:31:19 | 0:31:25 | |
the total inadequacy of our labour
force here which is either that they | 0:31:25 | 0:31:30 | |
won't take jobs which other people
coming in will take or they don't | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
have the skills. This is what I was
trying to say earlier, Jo, that | 0:31:33 | 0:31:39 | |
Brexit and immigration policies and
a welfare reform policy goes | 0:31:39 | 0:31:43 | |
together. We have to have the jobs
available to put restrictions on | 0:31:43 | 0:31:47 | |
people's benefits to then also be
able to prom toys bring down | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
immigration in the long run. Do you
accept that, that immigration would | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
come down and should come down in
the long-term once we have trained | 0:31:53 | 0:31:57 | |
enough people in Britain to do the
jobs that are currently done by | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
immigrants? That is a hugely
hypothetical question, you are | 0:32:01 | 0:32:06 | |
talking about years or decades. When
you have a high volume of migration, | 0:32:06 | 0:32:20 | |
particularly from innovative
countries, entrepreneurial, they | 0:32:20 | 0:32:22 | |
want to start businesses, those
kinds of people create opportunities | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
and create new jobs and skills. Not
the mass of people that are coming | 0:32:25 | 0:32:29 | |
in, they are coming in to do
semi-skilled jobs. Of course we want | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
those people, we want the dynamism
in our economy but the idea takes | 0:32:33 | 0:32:40 | |
ages to actually become a brickie
you can be trained to do the job in | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
13 week and can be on site. In your
second year you can be earning £150 | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
a day. For whatever reason, that is
not happening. It's because of the | 0:32:48 | 0:32:53 | |
Government... . Hang on. You say
it's not happening at the moment and | 0:32:53 | 0:32:56 | |
it would take years to actually do.
Do you want immigration to come | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
down? Thereth I want there to be the
right immigration and the right | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
numbers for our economy. I was never
entirely convinced by this, we have | 0:33:04 | 0:33:09 | |
got to get it below a certain number
because that misses all the nuances. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
People understand about the need for
high skilled immigration but also | 0:33:13 | 0:33:18 | |
low skilled. We have remarkably
almost full employment in this | 0:33:18 | 0:33:22 | |
country, NHS, social care,
construction industry, if we are | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
going to have a housing package in a
budget, all need people from abroad. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
The most important thing that
happened over the summer was Amber | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
Rudd, the Home Secretary, asking the
mightration Advisory Council to do a | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
proper in-depth analysis of who we
will need to come here, which | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
sectors are in need of migration
most and which ones we can perhaps | 0:33:39 | 0:33:45 | |
train people up on over time. That
will be one of those assessments we | 0:33:45 | 0:33:50 | |
haven't said yet. David Davis when
he met Michel Barnier said more | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
people to come if need be on
immigration won't be pulling up draw | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
bridge bigger pool to fish from. I
come back to the initial point that | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
there was a feeling that there were
people who voted in the referendum | 0:34:01 | 0:34:05 | |
to leave because they did want to
see numbers broadly coming down? I'm | 0:34:05 | 0:34:10 | |
sure that's absolutely right, based
on conversations I've had in my | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
constituency, there are people who
undoubt think did that. That's | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
partly the politicians' failure not
to have had a debate about | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
immigration. The previous Labour
Government... That... Nobody asked | 0:34:20 | 0:34:26 | |
them. I think most people want to
know who is coming here, why and how | 0:34:26 | 0:34:30 | |
long they are coming for and also
when they are going to go home if | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
that is the right thing. We talk
about an economy... What are we | 0:34:33 | 0:34:39 | |
doing about training to create full
employment for British workers. But | 0:34:39 | 0:34:43 | |
to you accept Labour did make a
mistake in terms of immigration? I | 0:34:43 | 0:34:49 | |
was the first person to criticise to
say we should never have gone into | 0:34:49 | 0:34:52 | |
the deal with the accession
countries without having | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
restrictions on them. I mean,
there's no question about where I | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
hope to appear. The toughest person
on the Labour side about | 0:34:59 | 0:35:03 | |
immigration. But the idea that
anybody believes that we should have | 0:35:03 | 0:35:08 | |
a draw bridge policy to pull it up,
people need to trust the politicians | 0:35:08 | 0:35:12 | |
on the direction of travel and the
direction of... You get it. You get | 0:35:12 | 0:35:19 | |
it by having the policies I've been
talking about today which is | 0:35:19 | 0:35:22 | |
actually that you do not have a draw
bridge but you do have plans in the | 0:35:22 | 0:35:27 | |
longer term for more British people
to have better opportunities to take | 0:35:27 | 0:35:31 | |
the jobs that are being done. In
that case when it comes to the | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
immigration system that is going to
be devised in the post-Brexit world, | 0:35:34 | 0:35:39 | |
should EU citizens have preferential
treatment after Brexit to non-EUs? | 0:35:39 | 0:35:44 | |
That depends on the negotiations and
the overall deal that is struck. The | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
it's something we should be aware
of. Undoubtedly unfortunately, some | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
of the leave campaigners promised a
non-EU community that actually | 0:35:52 | 0:35:56 | |
they'll be able to bring in many
more people because EU immigration | 0:35:56 | 0:35:59 | |
would be stopped. Again that is
going to be unpicked, they have to | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
be honest about the debate and the
trade-offs. You are a journalist at | 0:36:04 | 0:36:10 | |
City AM. Britain has broadly
benefitted. Some would say your | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
sector's grown at the detriment to
the rest of the UK. We have | 0:36:15 | 0:36:22 | |
benefitted from migration more than
perhaps other sectors have done. I | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
don't really hold this idea that
other people have been disadvantaged | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
by myingration. We are not just
talking about City workers here, we | 0:36:29 | 0:36:34 | |
are talking about technology,
engineering, low-skilled workers. I | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
don't like that term because a lot
of low-skilled or unskilled jobs | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
require a level of skill and clearly
those aren't necessarily skills that | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
we have in this country but I just
want to say that I particularly | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
agree with Nicky, showing that we
are in control, people just wanting | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
to know who, are the people, where
are they coming from and what are | 0:36:52 | 0:36:56 | |
they coming here for? 71% of
migrants come here either to work or | 0:36:56 | 0:37:01 | |
to study. They are net contributors
to the economy on the other hand | 0:37:01 | 0:37:05 | |
message hasn't come across.
Thank you. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
So MPs reuturn to Westminster
after a short break | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
at the end of last week -
what's in their in-trays? | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
A Budget Bill for Northern Ireland,
which will allow the government | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
in Westminster to set spending plans
in the continuing absence | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
of the Stormont Assembly,
will be rushed through | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
the Commons this afternoon. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
This evening the PM will deliver
a speech at the Lord | 0:37:23 | 0:37:26 | |
Mayor's Banquet in London. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:30 | |
Brexit battles return to the Commons
tomorrow as the first | 0:37:30 | 0:37:35 | |
two days of the committee stage
scrutiny of the EU | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
Withdrawal Bill begin. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:47 | |
Wednesday
will see the penultimate PMQs before | 0:37:47 | 0:37:49 | |
the Budget in a week's time. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
The House of Commons will hold | 0:37:51 | 0:37:52 | |
a backbench debate on the roll-out
of Universal Credit on Thursday, | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
introduced by Frank Field. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:56 | |
The vote for the next leader | 0:37:56 | 0:37:58 | |
of Scottish Labour will
take place on Friday. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:00 | |
We're joined now by Rowena
Mason of the Guardian | 0:38:00 | 0:38:02 | |
and Steve Hawkes of the Sun. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:08 | |
Welcome to both of you. Rowena,
first of all, what do you make of | 0:38:08 | 0:38:15 | |
Michael Gove's comments regarding
Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe yesterday? | 0:38:15 | 0:38:21 | |
It's an ill judged remark from a
minister about Mrs | 0:38:21 | 0:38:27 | |
Zaghari-Ratcliffe, earning him a
rebuke this morning. Michael Gove | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
said he didn't know what she was
doing in Iran and that's added fuel | 0:38:30 | 0:38:35 | |
to the flames of Boris Johnson
saying that she'd only been out | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
there training journalists when her
family maintains she was there on | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
holiday. Number Ten today have said
that the Government's position, the | 0:38:43 | 0:38:49 | |
agreed position is that she was out
there on holiday. So Michael Gove | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
there, departing from what was the
Government line. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
Do we think Steve that Boris Johnson
is going to still be under pressure | 0:38:56 | 0:39:01 | |
to resign after repeated calls for
him to be sacked by both Labour and | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
some in the Conservative Party? I
don't think he's going to be under | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
pressure to resign as much this
week. The pressure on him now is | 0:39:08 | 0:39:14 | |
huge to bring Nazanin back. They
were describing the sheer hell they | 0:39:14 | 0:39:25 | |
are going through, there is the fact
that Nazanin is being tested for | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
breast cancer. It was interesting to
hear Nicky a moment ago. Richard | 0:39:29 | 0:39:35 | |
Ratcliffe is clear, we don't need
any more stability. We need Nazanin | 0:39:35 | 0:39:41 | |
back and we need Boris to deliver on
that. There is a small chance for | 0:39:41 | 0:39:45 | |
Boris to do something to actually
salvage his reputation. That picture | 0:39:45 | 0:39:51 | |
of Boris coming back with Nazanin on
a plane could save him. What about | 0:39:51 | 0:39:57 | |
the relationship between Michael
Gove and Boris Johnson? The two seem | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
to have made up obviously having
fallen out spectacularly during the | 0:40:00 | 0:40:04 | |
last leadership contest. They've
obviously been holding secret | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
monthly meetings. How dangerous is
this for the Prime Minister? It's a | 0:40:07 | 0:40:12 | |
remarkable reckon sailiation really
but they have a mutual interest, | 0:40:12 | 0:40:17 | |
trying to push Theresa May towards a
very clean and decisive Brexit -- | 0:40:17 | 0:40:24 | |
reconciliation. Some would call it a
very hard Brexit. It's dangerous for | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
the Prime Minister, that is two
senior Cabinet Ministers who were | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
successful in the vote leave
campaign and ultimately backed by | 0:40:31 | 0:40:36 | |
the public in that referendum, seem
to be throwing their weight around | 0:40:36 | 0:40:41 | |
sending this letter, making demands
to her and so she's in an | 0:40:41 | 0:40:46 | |
ex-Froomely difficult position
because on the other side the | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
Brexiteers are pulling her in the
other direction -- extremely | 0:40:49 | 0:40:57 | |
difficult position. Eight short of
the number required to triring a | 0:40:57 | 0:41:02 | |
contest but how dangerous is this
for the Prime Minister? The MPs are | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
ready to sign, that is a long way
from signing something. There is no | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
doubt that Theresa May is in an
awful lot of trouble and has to come | 0:41:09 | 0:41:14 | |
back to show leadership and
authority. The Government might we | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
can the fact that this is -- welcome
the fact that this is a Brexit | 0:41:17 | 0:41:21 | |
debate because it allows people to
get on the front foot. 471 | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
amendments is incredible. She has to
show some authority and get the | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
budget out of the way. That is the
other thing looming. Try to get the | 0:41:28 | 0:41:33 | |
reshuffle and the next generation,
the new breed up. There is an | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
important thing happening today.
Amber Rudd is at the Centre for | 0:41:36 | 0:41:41 | |
Policies event talking about the
Tory party. What she says is going | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
to be very interesting. The EU
Withdrawal Bill, we have discussed | 0:41:45 | 0:41:50 | |
it with Frank Field and Nicky
Morgan, Nicky Morgan said the | 0:41:50 | 0:41:55 | |
article was tone deaf and will do
nothing to heal the divisions within | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
the Conservative Party. What is your
reaction? I think that high lites | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
how much difficulty Theresa May is
going to have getting the Bill | 0:42:01 | 0:42:07 | |
through unless he makes concessions
to Nicky Morgan and her colleagues | 0:42:07 | 0:42:12 | |
on the softer Brexit wing. Labour
think there are 13 amendments where | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
the Prime Minister is in danger of
losing unless she makes concessions, | 0:42:15 | 0:42:21 | |
on things like curbing Henry 58
powers. I think the rebels and the | 0:42:21 | 0:42:29 | |
rest of us are waiting to hear
whether the Government will back | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
down on some of these things in
order to get us through the House of | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
Commons. Do you think they will back
down in order to get it through? I | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
think they will. It's interesting,
Nicky's comments, sounds like she | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
wants a job on the Evening
Standard... I'll ask her in a | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
moment! Or whether she's going to go
for George's job. There will be some | 0:42:45 | 0:42:51 | |
concessions, we are hearing
rumblings that David Davis will say | 0:42:51 | 0:42:53 | |
something important this afternoon
when he introduces the Bill in | 0:42:53 | 0:42:57 | |
Parliament. . I can't see how the
Government can fail to back down on | 0:42:57 | 0:43:03 | |
the Henry VIII powers. There will be
some concessions I'm sure. Thank you | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
very much. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
So we're just nine days
until the budget - | 0:43:09 | 0:43:11 | |
and last minute lobbying
is in full swing. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
How handy that we have the Treasury
Select Committee chair | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
here and the chair of the committee
scrutinising one of the big | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
spending departments -
work and pensions. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
We are delighted that you are both
here. Frank Field, recent figures | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
suggest long waits in A&E have
increased by 557% in seven years, | 0:43:25 | 0:43:31 | |
obviously more people too. The NHS
boss says Brexit funding promises | 0:43:31 | 0:43:36 | |
must be honoured. To you support
more money for the NHS? I have long | 0:43:36 | 0:43:42 | |
supported it and #24iing of a new
way of funding the health and social | 0:43:42 | 0:43:46 | |
care we need, we should do it on a
New Bay six of national insurance. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:53 | |
-- finding a new way of funding. A
lot of people don't think national | 0:43:53 | 0:43:57 | |
insurance is a tax but a
contribution. In return we need to | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
give people a bigger say, but to
make sure that the money from the | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
new scheme actually goes to the
Health Service. But should the | 0:44:04 | 0:44:08 | |
Government follow through, Frank
Field, on that vote leave pledge of | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
giving £350 million to the NHS? It
should follow through by, at some | 0:44:12 | 0:44:18 | |
stage, monies which we spend will be
returned to this country. Monies of | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
that figure? I was never part of
making those extraordinary things. | 0:44:22 | 0:44:26 | |
But secondly... You signed up to the
leave requests for... No. If you | 0:44:26 | 0:44:34 | |
check the record, my contribution
was very limited about getting | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
Labour voters out because I saw that
as the key to success. But you would | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
like money to go to the NHS. It
needs to be on a basis that we'd | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
only keep coming back with the
begging cap, that if we move to | 0:44:46 | 0:44:53 | |
something like a National Health
Service, insurance care, a scheme | 0:44:53 | 0:44:56 | |
based on national insurance reformed
progressive, I think the Government | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
would get a cheer from people,
rather than a fear. Well, will they | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
get a cheer Nicky Morgan from this,
talking of public investment, one of | 0:45:03 | 0:45:10 | |
George Osborne's close allies says
they should end austerity. He says | 0:45:10 | 0:45:16 | |
voters won't buy it at another
election. Do you agree? | 0:45:16 | 0:45:22 | |
I think we will have to change the
economic narrative and whether the | 0:45:22 | 0:45:26 | |
Chancellor does it at this budget,
it ties in with the post Brexit | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
Britain, how we are going to boost
wages, challenge productivity or the | 0:45:30 | 0:45:35 | |
like of productivity that we have
seen. Of course it's very easy to | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
say let's take our foot off the
brake, put more money into the NHS | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
but we have to have a balance. There
are people working hard to pay their | 0:45:42 | 0:45:47 | |
taxes, are we collecting the right
taxes, I think Frank is right at | 0:45:47 | 0:45:51 | |
looking at social care. Should
Philip Hamilton -- Hammond signal an | 0:45:51 | 0:45:55 | |
end to social care austerity? I call
that living within our means, | 0:45:55 | 0:46:01 | |
balancing the books, however
undoubtedly the Chancellor has | 0:46:01 | 0:46:06 | |
already signalled things like public
sector pay is something he is aware | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
of, of course this debate about
Universal Credit, there will be | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
changes I think are coming but I
think the whole thing about the way | 0:46:13 | 0:46:19 | |
the economy, he was right in 2010,
we took some pretty tough decisions | 0:46:19 | 0:46:23 | |
to balance the books, it has moved
on, I think that's part of the isn't | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
people voted as they did in June
2016, they looked and thought we are | 0:46:27 | 0:46:32 | |
aware missing out, our bosses are
not giving us the money we would | 0:46:32 | 0:46:35 | |
like to have, we are not seen money
going into essential public | 0:46:35 | 0:46:39 | |
services. This is the opportunity
for government to press the reset | 0:46:39 | 0:46:43 | |
button. It is about resetting the
narrative and spending more, would | 0:46:43 | 0:46:47 | |
you support scrapping the deficit
reduction targets? Not completely, | 0:46:47 | 0:46:51 | |
whether in fact the target date gets
moved, that is a matter for the | 0:46:51 | 0:46:56 | |
Chancellor in terms of looking at
the balance sheet but I think it's | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
the right thing to aim for, we are
not... The interest payments have | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
been more than the whole of the
schools budget, that's not | 0:47:02 | 0:47:07 | |
sustainable, it cannot be right for
us as a country to continue to | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
borrow this morning, we've got to
continue to keep a lid on spending, | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
but also look at the other thing is
big investment driving economic | 0:47:13 | 0:47:18 | |
growth, that's the way to get things
going. Spending on housing you would | 0:47:18 | 0:47:23 | |
support. Absolutely. Mitigating the
effect of Universal Credit? Looking | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
at how it's done, I'm not aware of
all the numbers but of course | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
particularly this six-week wait
period which has been a big concern | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
to MPs and every body else. To Asian
fees again, more money spent? I have | 0:47:34 | 0:47:41 | |
to say I am a supporter of the
tuition fee policy, I think it's | 0:47:41 | 0:47:45 | |
right to raise the threshold and I
think we need to move on and look at | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
other things. Briefly on universal
but credit, Frank, are you calling | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
for more funding for getting rid of
it? In the longer term we want | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
reforms that will start on Thursday
when a cross-party motion based on | 0:47:55 | 0:48:04 | |
the select committee report calling
for this time limit from 6-4 weeks, | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
we will actually make the views of
the House of Commons felt and their | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
lobbyists are resolved if I was in
charge of the budget, the key think | 0:48:12 | 0:48:16 | |
the Chancellor has got to do, never
mind about all this technicality is | 0:48:16 | 0:48:20 | |
most of us can't understand. The key
thing, they have got to sound a note | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
of hope, there is actually
opportunities coming, particularly | 0:48:24 | 0:48:27 | |
on housing and particularly
protecting lower paid workers who | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
are not being done right to
Universal Credit. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:37 | |
So Theresa May thought is was all
about Strength and Stability - | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
but was this year's general election
really all about that slippery | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
political concept - authenticity. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:44 | |
The argument goes that Jeremy Corbyn
had it in spades - and she didn't. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
The same contest had already been
played out on the other side | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
of the Atlantic of course. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:57 | |
Here, a Georgetown linguistics
professor looks at how | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
Hillary Clinton struggled to win
the trust of American voters: | 0:48:59 | 0:49:05 | |
Let's go back to when Hillary
Clinton first appeared in the public | 0:49:05 | 0:49:09 | |
stage, 92, the wife of the former
governor of Arkansas, now running | 0:49:09 | 0:49:13 | |
for President. She was about as
unaffected as a person could be, she | 0:49:13 | 0:49:20 | |
had simple, plain brown hair, she
held it back with a headband, she | 0:49:20 | 0:49:24 | |
wasn't so concerned with her
appearance. She was ridiculed, a | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
woman who is not concerned with her
appearance he wears a simple | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
headband would be unacceptable in
public life. So she did for people | 0:49:31 | 0:49:35 | |
seemed to want, she had her style,
added reached blonde, then she was | 0:49:35 | 0:49:41 | |
criticised for being manipulative,
she was trying to manipulate her | 0:49:41 | 0:49:43 | |
image and here, already, you see
this suspicion of she is not | 0:49:43 | 0:49:50 | |
authentic. Well think was authentic
they did not like that either and I | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
think that's emblematic of what she
faced going forward. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:57 | |
A clip there from a documentary
on political authenticity that airs | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
on Radio Four at 8.30 tonight. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:01 | |
It's presented by the political
scientist Professor Rosie Campbell, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
who joins us now... | 0:50:03 | 0:50:09 | |
What makes a politician authentic?
An extremely good question. Good, | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
glad I asked it. Trying to work it
out, you describe it as a slippery | 0:50:13 | 0:50:18 | |
concept, seems to be a mixture of
things, sometimes we think of | 0:50:18 | 0:50:23 | |
authenticity as consistency,
sticking with policies over a long | 0:50:23 | 0:50:25 | |
period but it gets mixed up with
being related book or sounding like | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
a normal person. And that is my
problem, when people say | 0:50:28 | 0:50:34 | |
authenticity, is it about conviction
politics and principles? Jeremy | 0:50:34 | 0:50:38 | |
Corbyn would say he has stuck to
principles, Jacob Rees Mogg might | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
say he is upended because he has to
to political principles. Is it that | 0:50:41 | 0:50:46 | |
more in your mind than it is about
the late ability, about how someone | 0:50:46 | 0:50:50 | |
looks and response and that sort of
thing? I think at its core are | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
perhaps that is what we are looking
for, people have lost trust and | 0:50:54 | 0:50:58 | |
faith in politicians to some extent
reticular Lee after the expenses | 0:50:58 | 0:51:02 | |
scandal and they are looking for
some kind of integrity and I think | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
that sticking to your principles
over time as part of that. I'm not | 0:51:05 | 0:51:09 | |
sure I totally agree with you over
Jeremy Corbyn, has he softened | 0:51:09 | 0:51:14 | |
slightly on Europe and nuclear
disarmament? There are other things | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
he does that seem to signal to
people he is an authentic politician | 0:51:17 | 0:51:20 | |
that is perhaps not so much about
his policies. You think Jeremy | 0:51:20 | 0:51:27 | |
Corbyn has stuck to his principles
but in reality that has not been the | 0:51:27 | 0:51:31 | |
case, he has smartened up his
appearance, he wears the suit, he is | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
losing some of his authenticity in
order to be at Westminster? I don't | 0:51:35 | 0:51:40 | |
think he's losing any of that
authenticity, his position on Europe | 0:51:40 | 0:51:46 | |
as James, Germany and I would be in
the same lobby, we are not in the | 0:51:46 | 0:51:49 | |
same lobby now, someone has changed.
It may be difficult in academic | 0:51:49 | 0:51:53 | |
circles to decide who is genuine and
who is authentic, it does not appear | 0:51:53 | 0:51:59 | |
the voters have much difficulty in
actually deciding that and I think | 0:51:59 | 0:52:05 | |
the study or to begin with voters.
You are doing... LAUGHTER leprosy | 0:52:05 | 0:52:13 | |
respond. Voters seem to have, if you
as Conservative voters who is the | 0:52:13 | 0:52:16 | |
most honest and trustworthy many
more of them will say Mr macro than | 0:52:16 | 0:52:20 | |
Labour voters and if you look at the
number of Conservative voters who | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
think that Jeremy Corbyn is an
authentic guy will find that guy is | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
-- number is much smaller, voters
are no better than we academics at | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
this. There is a positive bias but
the judgement comes through quite | 0:52:31 | 0:52:37 | |
clearly that they can spot
authenticity. But even if they can | 0:52:37 | 0:52:41 | |
spot authenticity isn't politics
about compromise? Isn't it about | 0:52:41 | 0:52:47 | |
backroom and being pragmatic. Banks
it could be the most explosive | 0:52:47 | 0:52:54 | |
current example of all bad. --
Brexit. I feel quite concerned | 0:52:54 | 0:52:59 | |
about, if we don't allow politicians
to change their mind in a considered | 0:52:59 | 0:53:03 | |
and reflected way over a period of
time in politics won't actually, | 0:53:03 | 0:53:07 | |
democracy won't function. I don't
think it necessarily means | 0:53:07 | 0:53:11 | |
politicians should change their mind
on the same day... Or twice a day? | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
Can you faith fake authenticity? I
am not sure you can, I think the | 0:53:14 | 0:53:21 | |
voters have an antenna for it, which
are duly younger voters who | 0:53:21 | 0:53:25 | |
described Jeremy Corbyn as appendix.
A fascinating programme I did back | 0:53:25 | 0:53:29 | |
at party Conference, they said that,
I think authenticity is in the year | 0:53:29 | 0:53:34 | |
of the beholder, they know someone
is authentic not without being able | 0:53:34 | 0:53:38 | |
to put their finger on it. I would
propose it's about able setting out | 0:53:38 | 0:53:43 | |
what they believe in and saying it
as they think it is and I think the | 0:53:43 | 0:53:47 | |
trouble actually with a lot of
coverage of modern politics | 0:53:47 | 0:53:51 | |
particularly as a minister, it's a
nightmare coming on a Daily Politics | 0:53:51 | 0:53:54 | |
scummy you have a government line,
you might have use of your own, a | 0:53:54 | 0:53:59 | |
clever interviewer will say I know
how to get it out of them and you | 0:53:59 | 0:54:04 | |
spend yourself and your time getting
into linguistic contortions. That's | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
what people seem to think is a bad
thing about politics. Let's show you | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
and viewers this tweet about Donald
Trump, saying it how it is is what | 0:54:12 | 0:54:16 | |
he is seemingly famous for but... | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
That's authentic, is a popular? I
think that's the problem with the ID | 0:54:25 | 0:54:30 | |
of authenticity, it's slippery. On
Trump has changed his mind about | 0:54:30 | 0:54:34 | |
policy a great wheel. But being able
to seem relatable and to connect | 0:54:34 | 0:54:38 | |
with people, that's actually one way
that we pick up one intensity I | 0:54:38 | 0:54:44 | |
think sometimes we voters to get it
wrong, despite what you say, Frank. | 0:54:44 | 0:54:51 | |
The other point, you can't run as
Nicky was saying, the House of | 0:54:51 | 0:54:55 | |
Commons depends on people faithfully
voting for or against government, | 0:54:55 | 0:54:59 | |
that's how you for them to account,
you can't have 650 authentic | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
politicians! That may be true. Rosi,
thank you. | 0:55:03 | 0:55:08 | |
Now - its chimes were briefly heard
again over the weekend to mark | 0:55:08 | 0:55:11 | |
Remembrance Sunday. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:12 | |
Big Ben is undergoing
a multi-million pound renovation | 0:55:12 | 0:55:14 | |
programme and Channel Four have
secured exclusive | 0:55:14 | 0:55:15 | |
access to the work. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:16 | |
In a moment we'll be joined
by the historian, Dr Anna Keay, | 0:55:16 | 0:55:19 | |
who presents the programme. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:23 | |
One of my favourite bits in any big
conservation project is when the | 0:55:23 | 0:55:29 | |
roof comes off, it's like the
skeleton of a foil, an amazing | 0:55:29 | 0:55:32 | |
thing, you feel it you never
normally get to see. It's going to | 0:55:32 | 0:55:36 | |
be a once in a 100 and your
opportunity to see the bare bones of | 0:55:36 | 0:55:40 | |
the thing. The top of the tower is
going to be stripped down into its | 0:55:40 | 0:55:45 | |
original frame. Its giant hands over
four metres long, removed. The four | 0:55:45 | 0:55:53 | |
phases, each one large enough to
drive a double-decker bus through, | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
will be taken apart. And 2567 cast
an roof tiles and other parts | 0:55:57 | 0:56:06 | |
restored. One of the world's
best-known buildings is about to | 0:56:06 | 0:56:11 | |
become unrecognisable. | 0:56:11 | 0:56:12 | |
And Anna Keay who's the director
of Landmark Trust joins me now. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:18 | |
Why does this work have to be done?
Because this is a great want list | 0:56:18 | 0:56:24 | |
building, 150 odd years old and if
we care about it we wanted to still | 0:56:24 | 0:56:27 | |
be there in time and we need to look
after, it's standing there in the | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
elements, acid rain, wind, any thing
that any building has two content | 0:56:31 | 0:56:36 | |
with and it has eroded over time.
The top section is cast-iron, we | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
know what happens to metal, trusts
and if you go and stand behind the | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
clock faces you can pick the ire of.
Really? And it needs a lot of TLC. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:52 | |
That TLC, how difficult is it to
find people who have skills to | 0:56:52 | 0:56:57 | |
restore this iconic building? That's
a big issue across all historic | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
buildings in this country, we see it
in my work, it's all very well | 0:57:00 | 0:57:05 | |
saying you want to do this stuff,
unless you can find a stonemason who | 0:57:05 | 0:57:08 | |
knows how to deal with a bit of
exploded limestone from 1850, it's | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
all talk. It's a big task and it is
a tall order on this building | 0:57:13 | 0:57:17 | |
because it's so big, it's not just a
small number of people come all you | 0:57:17 | 0:57:21 | |
need a kind of an army to deal with
that. You need a whole team at it | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
for the duration? Yes. The cost of
the work has doubled is that good | 0:57:25 | 0:57:29 | |
value for money, Nicky Morgan? Of
course not but the work has to be | 0:57:29 | 0:57:35 | |
done, it's a major landmark, you see
all the tourists, people come to | 0:57:35 | 0:57:39 | |
look at it, I have constituents who
bring international visitors and | 0:57:39 | 0:57:43 | |
they say I want to come and look of
this amazing thing. Of course you | 0:57:43 | 0:57:46 | |
have to keep a look on the costs but
are we weighing up the massive | 0:57:46 | 0:57:50 | |
earner that is economically from
people coming to look at big den, | 0:57:50 | 0:57:55 | |
the Houses of Parliament and other
London landmarks? Your predecessor | 0:57:55 | 0:57:59 | |
started an inquiry on the total
renovation which will cost £4 | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
billion, will continue? The inquiry?
We will look at it but we are | 0:58:03 | 0:58:07 | |
waiting at the moment and over the
next steps are going to be from the | 0:58:07 | 0:58:11 | |
government. The House of Commons
authorities are taking a time to | 0:58:11 | 0:58:15 | |
consider for we are going. Have you
missed the chiming? It wasn't there, | 0:58:15 | 0:58:21 | |
I didn't know something you do but
if you're very close to it, and you | 0:58:21 | 0:58:25 | |
are on the phone, it's a nightmare.
Sorry but we will have to end it | 0:58:25 | 0:58:29 | |
there. | 0:58:29 | 0:58:31 | |
There's just time before we go
to find out the answer to our quiz. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:35 | |
The question was according
to Michel Barnier what could be | 0:58:35 | 0:58:37 | |
stopped from crossing the border
if the Brexit negotiations fail ... | 0:58:37 | 0:58:40 | |
a) Wine b) Pets c) Eurocrats
or d) Cheese. | 0:58:40 | 0:58:42 | |
So what's the correct answer? | 0:58:42 | 0:58:48 | |
It is Eurocrats. I thought it was
all of them. | 0:58:48 | 0:58:52 | |
That's all for today. | 0:58:52 | 0:58:53 | |
Thanks to our guests. | 0:58:53 | 0:58:54 | |
The One O'Clock News is starting
over on BBC One now. | 0:58:54 | 0:58:56 | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow
with all the big political stories | 0:58:56 | 0:58:59 | |
of the day... | 0:58:59 | 0:59:00 | |
do join me then. | 0:59:00 | 0:59:01 | |
Bye bye. | 0:59:01 | 0:59:04 |