07/12/2017 Daily Politics


07/12/2017

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to

the Daily Politics.

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Theresa May has until Sunday to come

up with fresh proposals

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on the Irish border,

so says the European Commission,

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or she faces the prospect of Brexit

talks being delayed till

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the New Year.

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But does she have the authority to

knock the necessary heads together?

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We'll have the latest.

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The Government says

President Trump's decision

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to recognise Jerusalem

as the capital of Israel

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is "unhelpful" to the peace process

as international condemnation

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grows.

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The Defence Secretary says British

citizens who join so-called

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Islamic State should not be allowed

to return to the UK and says

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we should do all we can

to "eliminate that threat".

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And in the wake of the sexual

harassment allegations

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in Westminster we speak

to the British political journalist

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who is among the so-called

'Silence Breakers' who've been named

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as Time magazine's

Person of the Year.

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All that in the next hour,

and with us for the whole

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of the programme today

is Martha Spurrier,

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director of the Human Rights

organisation Liberty -

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welcome to the show.

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The Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson

has said that the crack cocaine of

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Islamist terrorism the fault of

repressive ray jeeps not western

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foreign policy. His speech at the

Foreign Office this morning comes a

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week after Michel Barnier raised

eyebrows by saying that in voting to

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leave the EU the UK was refusing to

stand shoulder to shoulder with its

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European allies in the fight against

terrorism. Here is Boris Johnson

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speaking in the last hour.

Contrary

to some of the Acerions you will

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have heard from overseas I can tell

you that every day, British serving

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men and women are putting thrives at

risk to roll up terrorist network,

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to expose what they are doing, to

thwart them, and to bring them to

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justice.

They are doing it not just on the

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behalf of the British people but for

everyone.

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May they are making good on what the

Prime Minister has called the

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unconditional commitment of the

British people, to the security of

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our European friends.

That was Boris Johnson, talking

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about the threat of terrorism. What

did you think about Michel Barnier's

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comments saying that once Britain

decided to leave the EU, they would

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no longer be standing shoulder to

shoulder or a risk of no longer

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standing shoulder to shoulder with

their partners over security.

I

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would be amazed if anyone who voted

to leave the European Union did so

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thinking it was a good thing not to

stand shoulder to shoulder in the

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fight against terrorism. Think it is

right you can have very strong

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alliances with people, whether you

are in a union with them or not.

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That is what we should be aiming

for. I think what it does really

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underline is it is important to get

this stuff in black-and-white. It is

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important to make sure that we can

stand shoulder to shoulder, by

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speaking out about the values that

we all hold dear together, and

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agreeing together how we are going

to enforce them globally. So that is

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things like making sure we can still

share information about criminals so

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victims' rights are protected or we

can share data in a way that

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protects or privacy right so all of

those things are important.

You see

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no difficulty between the two Brexit

Britain still that level of

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cooperation with the EU, even if we

don't have oversight if you like or

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jurisdiction from something like the

European Court of Justice.

I don't

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think there is any difficulty in

principle. I is about our moll

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fissions making sure it is enshrined

in UK law.

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US President Donald Trump's decision

to recognise Jerusalem

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as the capital of Israel and move

the US Embassy there from Tel Aviv

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has led to wide-spread condemnation

from US allies around the world.

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The announcement fulfils a campaign

promise from the President,

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and he said it was "nothing more

or less than a recognition

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of reality".

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However, the UK Government has said

it does not support the decision.

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This is what Foreign Office Minister

Alistair Burt had to say

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in the Commons earlier today.

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As my right honourable friend,

the Prime Minister, made clear

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in her statement yesterday,

we disagree with the US decision

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to move its embassy to Jerusalem,

and recognise Jerusalem

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as the Israeli capital before

a final status agreement.

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We believe it is unhelpful,

in terms of prospects

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for peace in the region.

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The British Embassy to Israel

is based in Tel Aviv and we have

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no plans to move it.

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Donald Trump is not crying fire

in a crowded theatre,

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he is deliberately setting fire

to the theatre.

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Then he has the unbelievable cheek

to claim that he is doing this

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to move forward the peace process,

when in reality, he is

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setting it back decades.

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Well, we are joined

now by Dr Alan Mendoza

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from the Henry Jackson Society,

and Martha is still with us.

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Welcome to the programme. How does

this recognition, this official

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recognition of Jerusalem as the

capital of Israel help the peace

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process and a two state solution?

It

is incidental to the peace process,

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it has been 25 years old now,

currently there is no peace process

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at this moment in time. And what

President Trump has said and stated

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it is time to recognise reality.

Jerusalem has been the capital of

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Israel since 1948, and he stated it

is not going to pre-judge the final

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talks when and if they come. It is

not about division, it is about

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recognising reality, they can select

its own capital.

How important in

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your mind is the idea of Jerusalem

also has the capital of a future

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Palestinian state.

That is highly

likely.

It is not incidental to the

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peace process.

It doesn't preclude

it. Why do you think declaring

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Jerusalem as a capital precludes it

from being the capital of Palestine.

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I don't see they are incompatible.

Do you think it is stating reality

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despite the sensitivities?

Absolutely not. I think this is a

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recognition of a capital in an

occupied territory, it is contrary

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to British foreign... I am delighted

the Prime Minister has condemned the

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move. We have already seen that

there is unrest and what this will

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lead to is a worsening of the

conflict situation there, people

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will be hurt and people's lives will

be lost. It sets back a peace

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process we no is fragile and that is

a dangerous move.

When you say it is

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occupied Jerusalem you mean east

Jerusalem is occupied or is whole?

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East just is recognised as occupied.

But west Jerusalem you are happy

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with as the capital?

I don't know

what you can have is a capital in a

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territory which is so fraught in

this peace process s it demonstrates

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a successful I don't agree that you

can say is for a democratic ally to

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name its capital, we can't say we

want our capital to be Paris or

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somewhere else in the world.

In your

mind what is the capital of Israel?

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The capital of Israel is Tel Aviv.

That is the way it must remain.

It

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isn't. It is Jerusalem. The Israelis

have controlled Jerusalem since

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1948. The western part. They

extended control to eastern

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Jerusalem in 6, for you to suggest

Tel Aviv is not the cap is the

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capital of Israel is the same as

Israelis saying Manchester is the

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capital of Britain.

How inflammatory

is it of Donald Trump to make what

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will be seen as an unnecessary move

to announce they are going to

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transfer the embassy from Tel Aviv

to Jerusalem, when it has been

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perfectly fine in Tel Aviv, all this

time?

Whendown saw it is

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unnecessary, Donald Trump is looking

to spark a process, and move things

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on, we have not been able to get

peace talks going.

How will this

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help spark the peace process when

Hamas in the Gaza Strip has said

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they have already call for a new

intifada.

Hamas is not party to the

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talks, it hasn't been part of the

peace process for 25 year, there is

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no indication it will be part of the

peace process o peace process going

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forward.

This has made it much more

difficult.

I don't think it will. On

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the contrary, what he needs to

understand, is that Palestinians

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cannot continue to be the blocking

party to this, the Israelis have for

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the last 25 years put deal after

deal on the table and the

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Palestinians starting with yas is a

Arafat have walked away from the

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deals. It is time to say there are

consequences, the world moves on, we

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can't be frozen, the paradigm of 94

forever.

I am going to bring in my

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colleague diplomatic correspondent

James Landale to talk briefly about

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Boris Johnson and what he said,

because you have been listening to

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that speech, we talked earlier about

a response to the comments made by

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Michel Barnier about whether Britain

would be able to stand shoulder to

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shoulder with the EU in the future

on security. Just tell us what he

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has been saying.

Well, the Foreign

Secretary, we use a phrase

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wide-ranging for speeches, he did

range over a great deal. He did

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without mentioned Michelle barn yes

put a push back and say by leaving

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the European Union, the UK is in no

way standing, stepping back from the

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fight against Islamist terrorism. On

Israel he was interesting in terms

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of what you have been discussing in

terms of the US decision to

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recognise Jerusalem as the capital.

He said is on the onus for the US to

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go further, they have played this

card, the US now has to make a play

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another card on the wider Middle

East peace process, say this is what

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the brokerage, the role that the

United States can play there, so

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trying to put more pressure back on

the US, and more broadly over the

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issue of Brexit, Boris Johnson was

asked about that. What he said there

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was he said that any deal had to be

UK-wide. Any offer to the DUP. He

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made it very clear that anything had

to ensure that once again, to use

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his phrase Britain secured control

over its borders and its money. So

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as ever, maintaining pretty hard

position on that.

Thank you very

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much. Let's pick up on that. That

Boris Johnson actually says the onus

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is back on the United States, what

should be done to bring Mohammad

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Abbas and the Palestinians to the

table?

I think the drive is

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happening right now, you have seen

for the last few months, a move by

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the President Trump and the

administration to bring in the wider

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Arab world.

How? What have they done

that will bring Mohammad Abbas to

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the table?

He needs to be pressured

by Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf states

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to say we want a settlement. They

are using the threat of Iran to

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bring everything together.

Saudi

Arabia has condemned the move. What

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way will it help them get involved

as you say when they have been

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united to some extent over the issue

of Iran to pull the Palestinians

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into...

This is not an important

point in great scheme.

It is very

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important to the Palestinians. It is

critical.

Not the Saudi, what you

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will see happen is the continued

moves between the Israelis, the

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Saudis for other gulf states,

parties worried about the Iranian

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threat. This will be a kink in the

road. It will go back to being that

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alliance strategy.

On the basis of

Donald Trump's track record do you

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think this was throughout through,

there is a strategy, isn't this

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again clumsiness on behalf of the

President where in this case as

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Martha indicated it could end up

with violence.

I don't think so, if

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you look at what he has been saying

for the last eight months on the

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issue of Middle East peace there is

a plan, it has been executed by

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going to the gulf, going to Israel,

trying to bring the parties

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together. This is the next step.

There will be other steps to follow.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Now it's time for our daily quiz.

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Yesterday, Stanley Johnson,

father of Boris, was booted out

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of the Jungle in I'm a Celebrity.

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He said he was looking forward

to checking his emails,

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but what did he want to find out?

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If England were winning the Ashes.

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If his son, Boris,

was still Foreign Secretary.

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If Donald Trump had

abandoned Twitter.

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Or if he was getting an invite

to the Royal wedding next year.

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At the end of the show Martha

will give us the correct answer.

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The European Commission has said a

deal on the Irish border will need

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to be done by Sunday, in order for

EU and Britain to begin discussing

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trade negotiations at the EU summit

next Thursday. So how close are we

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to an agreement. Well, let us

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look at the developments

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look at the developments

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Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar

said last night he had

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spoken to Theresa May,

who told him she was working to find

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a "specific solution" to the Irish

border issue and would come back

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to the Irish government

with new text in the coming days.

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On the other side -

the DUP are continuing talks

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with the government but one source

told the Sun newspaper this morning

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that they won't be rushed

into an agreement because "this

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is a battle of who blinks first

and we've cut off our eyelids".

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In another development,

a group of Tory MPs has written

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a letter criticising colleagues

who they say are acting "highly

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irresponsibly" by talking up

the prospects of a no deal.

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The letter, which was arranged

by Conservative MP Nicky Morgan,

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is signed by 19 Tory backbenchers

and says it's "essential" Britain

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leaves the EU with a deal.

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And Chancellor Philip Hammond said

yesterday Britain should pay

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the £50 billion exit bill

with the European Union, even if

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Britain doesn't get a trade deal.

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That will go down well

with his Eurosceptic colleagues.

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overnight

There is lots of talk

about deadlines what I am certain

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about is people want something to

happen, they will make it happen, so

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we are going to get on with the job

and try and find the right way

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forward. I am in no doubt over the

coming days if there was a will to

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find agreement that will be found

regardless of what time of day or

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night it was.

It could be next

Thursday?

We are all working towards

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reaching an agreement at the

European Council next Thursday,

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there is different people saying

different things by what we have to

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do by when. There is a desire to

reach a resolution and I am sure

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people will be flexible.

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Joining me now is the Conservative

MP Vicky Ford who was one of the 19

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Tories to sign that letter

to the Prime Minister

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Welcome to The Daily Politics. The

letter points to the people talking

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up a no-deal scenario. Who are they?

So the Prime Minister has made it

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very clear that she wants to deliver

this deep partnership with Europe

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and we are offering her our full

support. Others who are saying we

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should walk away from the

negotiating table now, you know,

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over a year before the deadline for

Brexit, I believe are being

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irresponsible because that deep

partnership with the Prime Minister

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want is so important for British

businesses. We need to make sure

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that we to keep talking.

So you are

talking about your Conservative

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colleagues, those sort of people

who, in your mind are putting undue

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pressure on Theresa May?

I will not

Names or start new fights.

You are

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talking about your Conservative

colleagues?

Trying to put more red

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lines on to the Prime Minister at

this stage is, in my view, not a

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responsible thing to do. She needs

to decide what the red lines are.

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She needs to to decide what the

negotiating areas are. And it is

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really important that we do achieve

an amicable outcome, a deep

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partnership for the long term for so

many areas of our economy and of our

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daily lives.

Are you being

irresponsible? And your colleagues

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who signed this letter by putting

pressure on Theresa May to say, you

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mustn't walk away under any

circumstances?

No. The Prime

0:17:220:17:25

Minister has made it very clear that

she wishes to deliver that deep

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partnership thapd is what question

are supporting her to do. The

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deadline is at the end of the Brexit

negotiations. It would be very good

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if we can move on to the next round

this month. I really hope we do. I

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hope we do for the EU citizens here.

It is very comply katd. There are 27

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other countries involved and these

negotiations will take time.

Do you

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think the EU is behaving unfairly.

They are putting Britain and Ireland

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under enormous pressure here when

this could all be solved once the

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discussions move on to trade?

I

think it is really complicated

0:18:100:18:14

because the EU is obviously not just

one organisation. They are trying to

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work with 27 different countries.

Ireland is the country that is most

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affected by Brexit. But it is in

Ireland's interest that we do find a

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long-term agreement.

What is the is

the solution in your mind on the

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Irish border?

I think to solve the

Irish border issue we need some form

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of regulatory alignment. You cannot

have goods banned on one side of the

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border but not on the other side of

the border and then still have an

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open border. So we need need some

form of regulatory co-operation.

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That will need to apply to all of

the UK because we cannot then have a

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border in the Irish Sea. Keeping the

UK together is really important. I

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hope Ireland will say, we are,

keeping the border open, we hear you

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on keeping technical solutions to

delivering that. We want to work

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with you to make sure we get the

long-term solution. Therefore we can

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move on to talk about the long-term

partnership as well.

That is clear.

0:19:190:19:27

You think that if you keep the UK in

its entirety in terms of regulation

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then a solution can be found but for

people who are on, what you might

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call the hard Brexit side of the

party, that means staying in some

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sort of regulatory framework of the

EU and we would then be rule takers

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- do you accept that?

I think they

may be making arguments on

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principal, when in practise, this is

not a real argument. Most of the

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issues on agricultural products

which go backwards and forwards

0:19:550:19:58

across the border. The UK Government

has made it very clear that we do

0:19:580:20:02

not wish to drop the standards, the

animal welfare standards, in

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particular, and therefore we don't

intend to undercut the Irish farmers

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on the other side of the border. I

think the more we can say we want to

0:20:110:20:15

continue to work to deliver the

highest possible regulatory

0:20:150:20:20

standards, as Michael Gove himself

has said that he wants to deliver,

0:20:200:20:23

then actually this becomes a less

sensitive argument.

Right, how do

0:20:230:20:27

you think the DUP is behaving here?

Do you think the DUP tail is wagging

0:20:270:20:33

the Government dog?

No. I think it's

absolute vital that we keep the

0:20:330:20:39

United Kingdom united. That was the

first promise that the Prime

0:20:390:20:43

Minister made outside the steps of

Downing Street was, I want to keep

0:20:430:20:46

the union together and it is very

clear if there had been a special

0:20:460:20:50

deal for Northern Ireland then there

would have been Something Special

0:20:500:20:54

for Scotland. The Scotts agreed to

ask for that immediately. We cannot

0:20:540:20:59

have one part of Britain being

sliced off from another part of

0:20:590:21:01

Britain. We have to stay together.

Thank you. Joining us for this is

0:21:010:21:12

Peter Bone.

0:21:120:21:17

Welcome back to The Daily Politics.

You and your colleagues have been

0:21:170:21:24

called highly irresponsible by Vicky

Ford and others.

1 p 7 days to go.

0:21:240:21:28

Another day nearer coming out of

this dreadful European Union super

0:21:280:21:32

state, so that is good news. Vicky

can write letters if she wants.

Are

0:21:320:21:37

you being highly responsible?

I am

100% behind the Prime Minister. I

0:21:370:21:41

understand the Prime Minister is

thinking about taking me to Brussels

0:21:410:21:44

to sort the problem out.

You are

putting more red lines in her way,

0:21:440:21:48

making it harder to move on to the

next phase?

You may say that but I

0:21:480:21:52

don't recognise that. Yesterday the

Prime Minister agreed that we would

0:21:520:21:56

end free movement when we came out

of the EU. We would stop sending

0:21:560:22:00

billions to the European Union. We

will make our own laws in our own

0:22:000:22:05

country, judged by British judges.

If she can deliver that, everyone

0:22:050:22:09

will be happy.

If there is not

progress and Britain does not move

0:22:090:22:12

on to the next phase, should Theresa

May walk away?

That is the correct

0:22:120:22:17

question, because if progress cannot

be made, the responsible situation

0:22:170:22:20

is to say, right, we obviously can't

do a deal. We have to give our

0:22:200:22:25

industry enough time to prepare.

What is the answer?

Yes. Walk away.

0:22:250:22:29

Tell the industry we will come out

on 29th March, 2019 on WTO rules and

0:22:290:22:35

therefore you can prepare for that.

And we won't, by the way, pay

0:22:350:22:39

billions of pounds to the European

Union. So within a few days I think

0:22:390:22:43

the European Union would rush back

to talk to us.

Soham Hammond is

0:22:430:22:48

wrong to say we -- so Phillip

Hammond is wrong to say that?

I

0:22:480:22:53

think he got slapped down by the

Prime Minister on that. It is not

0:22:530:22:55

Government policy.

In terms of the

no deal, do you have a deadline next

0:22:550:23:00

week if there is no movement, should

the Prime Minister walk away then?

0:23:000:23:05

The question of a deadline is

interesting. I understand if

0:23:050:23:08

European Union is saying within the

next 48 hours if this point is not

0:23:080:23:11

decided, maybe it will be decided

and we'll not have to worry about

0:23:110:23:15

that. The crunch time is spring next

year when we have to agree to the

0:23:150:23:21

principals of the free trade deal.

If we get to that stage and have not

0:23:210:23:25

made progress that is the point you

must give industry a year to

0:23:250:23:28

prepare. We cannot, as Vicky said

wait until 29th March, 2019, and

0:23:280:23:35

find it all chances. Cha -- all

collapses. It is a decision to be

0:23:350:23:39

made at a particular time. The

latest time you can make that

0:23:390:23:42

decision is the spring time of next

year.

Vicky Ford said it will be a

0:23:420:23:47

disaster. Threatening a no deal is a

disaster. Is she wrong?

Yes, she is

0:23:470:23:53

wrong on that. Clearly, the Prime

Minister has said a no deal is a

0:23:530:23:56

possibility. Is it better to do a

deal, a free trade deal? Of course.

0:23:560:24:01

If we weren't talking about Northern

Ireland now, but we were talking

0:24:010:24:05

about the free trade agreement, if

we had a free trade agreement the

0:24:050:24:09

border with Northern Ireland would

disappear.

Was it irresponsible of

0:24:090:24:13

the Government not to have briefed

the DUP with the wording of the

0:24:130:24:17

draft document to prevent them from

walking away?

I don't think that is

0:24:170:24:20

what happened. I think there was a

draft document provided by, drawn up

0:24:200:24:25

by the EU which was leaked. I think

in the Irish media. I don't think at

0:24:250:24:30

any time had the Prime Minister

agreed to that. At any time had

0:24:300:24:33

there been any discussions on the

text. So...

Should there have been?

0:24:330:24:38

If the Prime Minister wasn't going

to agree to it in the first place,

0:24:380:24:41

why discuss it?

In terms of the

words regulatory and alignment, what

0:24:410:24:46

do you think the solution is to the

Northern Ireland and Irish border?

A

0:24:460:24:51

free trade area. If we have a free

trade area, the problem disappears.

0:24:510:24:56

What about the Irish Government who

want to ensure they e they are going

0:24:560:25:01

to have the same customs and

regulations that exist now.

If you

0:25:010:25:04

talk about a no deal situation, what

would happen in Northern Ireland, we

0:25:040:25:09

could decide. We don't have to put

any duty on Gods -- on goods coming

0:25:090:25:17

over from the Irish border. I don't

think it is their position.

You

0:25:170:25:20

would be happy to see a hard border?

I think I said the opposite. The

0:25:200:25:29

only people who seem to talk about a

hard bored ser the European Union.

0:25:290:25:33

Ireland said they don't want to see

anything that could look like any

0:25:330:25:36

checks being made. They want to keep

it, the only way to do that is to

0:25:360:25:43

have the same customs and

regulations.

It is right you can

0:25:430:25:48

have a frictionless border. If we

are not imposing any duties or

0:25:480:25:52

tariffs there's no need to check

anything. It is a lot of argument

0:25:520:25:55

about nothing. There'll not be a

hard border in Northern Ireland,

0:25:550:25:58

whichever way you go, whether there

is agreement or there isn't. Whilst

0:25:580:26:02

the European Union are making this a

big issue I don't think in reality

0:26:020:26:06

it is.

What about the Brexit impact

assessment? Are you disappointed

0:26:060:26:12

David Davis has not provided those?

There aren't any. It would be absurd

0:26:120:26:17

to think the Government was doing

Brexit impact assessments across the

0:26:170:26:22

country on how many types of Brexit

could you get? The basic thing is

0:26:220:26:26

the Government knows what it wants

to do, it wants a free trade deal

0:26:260:26:29

with the European Union. If you call

them red lines, the Prime Minister

0:26:290:26:34

answered my question to yesterday.

They were called red lines.

They

0:26:340:26:39

were called pink, actually.

We can

argue about the colour. Do you think

0:26:390:26:42

the deadline will be met and there

will be movement on phase two?

I

0:26:420:26:48

don't think have a crystal ball.

What is vital in this is we make

0:26:480:26:52

sure that high standards are

enshrined. That rights for ordinary

0:26:520:26:58

people and their families are

enshrined.

How?

There is legislation

0:26:580:27:02

going through Parliament at the

moment, which is about bringing the

0:27:020:27:07

EU withdrawal bill. What is critical

in that bill is that things that

0:27:070:27:11

people and communities here enjoy

now because of their membership of

0:27:110:27:15

the EU, whether they wanted to leave

or remain, that those protections

0:27:150:27:20

are enshrined in law.

The Government

said they will be.

We will see what

0:27:200:27:24

happens next week on that. At the

moment we don't have agreement that

0:27:240:27:29

the charter of rights will be

enshrined in our statute. Leave the

0:27:290:27:34

UK or remain in it - that is by the

by. We need high standards and right

0:27:340:27:38

protections here. We can do that. It

has to be in black and white so it

0:27:380:27:43

can be...

Should the charter be

there in black and white?

Hours of

0:27:430:27:48

lawyers argue about this. On one

hand they said it has to be in the

0:27:480:27:53

bill... I agree we must have the

highest of standards. When we are an

0:27:530:27:59

independent nation we can strengthen

and increase those standards.

What

0:27:590:28:03

guarantees will be given. They say

sovereignty should have been given

0:28:030:28:08

to them as parliamentarians to see

which laws will be included and

0:28:080:28:11

which aren't.

What we are saying is

all the laws, all the EU laws are

0:28:110:28:17

going to be become effectively

British laws on the day we come out

0:28:170:28:21

so, there'll be no no, the day

before and day after we will have

0:28:210:28:24

the same standards.

There is one

exception, in this great copy and

0:28:240:28:30

paste job done, one thing has been

carved out, that is the European

0:28:300:28:35

charter of human rights. At the

moment there is an argument about

0:28:350:28:38

why that one piece of law has not

been included. Whether it is about

0:28:380:28:43

privacy, about having access to fair

insurance premiums or access to a

0:28:430:28:47

pension rights if you are a gay

couple - all these things derived

0:28:470:28:52

from European rights they should be

brought home. At the moment the

0:28:520:28:54

Government has not committed to

putting those rights in this bill.

I

0:28:540:29:00

have heard eminent lawyers tell us

this is what this bill does and the

0:29:000:29:03

Parliament should discuss this. At

the moment I am, the Government has

0:29:030:29:07

persuaded me they are right. If I am

persuaded the other way I will vote

0:29:070:29:11

for any amendment. I think that the

Government, I think all of

0:29:110:29:15

Parliament is agreed, we want to

bring in the same standards of

0:29:150:29:18

protection that we have now

afterwards. It is just the mechanism

0:29:180:29:22

for doing it.

0:29:220:29:23

The Conservative-led Government

introduced a requirement back

0:29:250:29:27

in 2010 for schools to use phonics

to teach children to read.

0:29:270:29:30

Children learn individual

sounds and then blend

0:29:300:29:32

those sounds together.

0:29:320:29:33

Yesterday, at Prime Minister's

Questions, Theresa May hailed

0:29:330:29:35

the reform as the driver

for dramatically increased reading

0:29:350:29:38

standards in England.

0:29:380:29:38

Let's have a listen.

0:29:380:29:43

Yesterday we learned

how the UK's revolution

0:29:430:29:45

in phonics has dramatically

improved school standards.

0:29:450:29:46

And I would like to pay particular

tribute to my right honourable

0:29:460:29:49

friend, the Minister

for Schools Standards who has worked

0:29:490:29:51

tirelessly to this end,

through his time here in this House,

0:29:510:30:02

but also pay tribute

to the hard work of teachers up

0:30:030:30:06

and down the country.

0:30:060:30:10

We have - and just for the figures,

in 2012, 58% of six-year-olds

0:30:100:30:14

passed reading checks.

0:30:140:30:15

This year that has risen to 81%.

0:30:150:30:16

We are indeed building

a Britain fit for the future.

0:30:160:30:23

I'm joined now by Mark Lehain,

a former head teacher and now

0:30:230:30:26

director of Parents and Teachers

for Excellence and Sandra McNally

0:30:260:30:29

from the LSE's Centre

for Economic Performance.

0:30:290:30:30

Welcome to both of you. So let us

talk about phonics. There were

0:30:300:30:36

147,000 more fluent reading

six-year-olds than in 2011, is that

0:30:360:30:40

something to celebrate?

Absolutely.

Mine it is great to see progress in

0:30:400:30:48

the polls reflecting improve.s in

standards. There is still some way

0:30:480:30:50

to go, and there is a lot of

children you leave school without

0:30:500:30:55

being at the expected standard. In

adult population, a very serious

0:30:550:30:59

issue with literacy.

Do you accept

that is down to phonics?

I would

0:30:590:31:04

they the Government reforms

introduced in 2006 actually did have

0:31:040:31:10

something to contribute to the

improvement we are seeing, our

0:31:100:31:16

research showed that it had, phone

nicks introduced in schools. Which

0:31:160:31:26

found an immediate impact at age

fivement it reduced at seven. By 11

0:31:260:31:31

people had caught up. So people do

learn to read eventually so we

0:31:310:31:35

shouldn't get too excited that

everything is down to phonics.

So is

0:31:350:31:40

it really this great sort of

revolutionary technique in teaching

0:31:400:31:43

children to read?

There is a number

of things I would say. First the big

0:31:430:31:49

change in 2010 because they made the

move from 2006 on wards, it would be

0:31:490:31:54

10 was Nick Gibbon put a rocket

booster on the approach to phonics.

0:31:540:32:00

Which seems to be by far and away

the best approach to teaching

0:32:000:32:03

children and I have four daughters

of my own, my oldest daughter was in

0:32:030:32:08

the first cohort, so we is been able

to see the impact on our own family

0:32:080:32:13

overnight-time.

Is that the

evidence? How do you now it is down

0:32:130:32:17

to phonics, if standard have

improved generally and teaching has

0:32:170:32:22

improved in many school, isn't that

more important than the system of

0:32:220:32:26

teaching people phonics because

everyone has learned to read in the

0:32:260:32:29

past.

I don't think any is saying it

is the focus on phonics itself but

0:32:290:32:35

it has encouraged more teachers to

put an emphasis on those things when

0:32:350:32:38

they get kids in the early years.

Although most children catch up by

0:32:380:32:48

11, I know children may turn up they

have missed out on being fluent

0:32:480:32:54

readers because they were late to

get there. When you think of the

0:32:540:32:57

books they could have been reading

they have missed out on and their

0:32:570:33:02

knowledge base and comprehension

generally

Have you got evidence to

0:33:020:33:05

show that phonics has made a

positive impact on children's

0:33:050:33:09

reading?

I mean there is different

types of phonics and lots, there is

0:33:090:33:16

some good evidence to suggest it has

an impact on reading and on later

0:33:160:33:20

outcomes. What isn't clear is what

kind of phonics is better than

0:33:200:33:25

other, I know there is lots of

debate in education research on

0:33:250:33:28

this, it is not as clear-cut and you

wouldn't want to be prioritising

0:33:280:33:33

phonics at the expense of lots of

other things.

Are you going for this

0:33:330:33:39

pure approach? The school that I

have been involved in, there was an

0:33:390:33:44

issue about spelling. The fact that

phonics made it difficult for some

0:33:440:33:48

children later on to be able to

spell correctly because they learned

0:33:480:33:52

it only by sound.

That is where

schools that have adopted systems

0:33:520:34:03

have improved. I think the real

exciting thing that has come out

0:34:030:34:08

this week in the data about upon

things is that the gains we have

0:34:080:34:12

seen is because boys have seen their

reading ability gone up by a lot,

0:34:120:34:17

but also lower attaining children,

that didn't do so well the past are

0:34:170:34:22

doing better, so more vulnerable

children are doing better and the

0:34:220:34:26

knock on impact is going to be

massive.

Do we teach children to

0:34:260:34:31

read too early? Are we pushing

children to read at a stage when

0:34:310:34:34

they are not ready and phonics is a

way doffing it more quickie.

Other

0:34:340:34:41

countries vary in when they lead

people into formal education, if you

0:34:410:34:46

look at some of the Scandinavian

countries they don't do formal

0:34:460:34:50

schooling until later. It is not

clear it has to be done at the

0:34:500:34:54

particular age, that we do it here,

but I, I don't have a strong view

0:34:540:34:58

about that really.

Mark, the former

Children's Laureate has criticised

0:34:580:35:07

for teaching children to read

allowed successfully but not with

0:35:070:35:12

enjoyment.

I think he is wrong. Mark

Rosen has that this view for years,

0:35:120:35:23

him and some left-wing activist said

it is going to push things back. It

0:35:230:35:26

isn't, but I know myself as a

teacher who has been on a journey in

0:35:260:35:31

terms of understanding what works

wand who done. It can take a long

0:35:310:35:34

time for people to change view, I

hope people will hopefully see the

0:35:340:35:40

light. He has done amazing thing,

fundamentally this is a success

0:35:400:35:48

story, an example of a series of

Governments having the nerve to push

0:35:480:35:51

through changes and of the teaching

profession, working really hard to

0:35:510:35:55

implement it effectively.

Thank you

both.

0:35:550:35:57

Thank you both.

0:35:570:35:58

The Electoral Commission has

announced this morning

0:35:580:36:00

that it is launching

an investigation in to Momentum -

0:36:000:36:02

the group set up to support

Jeremy Corbyn's leadership

0:36:020:36:04

of the Labour Party.

0:36:040:36:05

The Commission is looking

into whether Momentum broke

0:36:050:36:07

election spending rules

in the General Election.

0:36:070:36:09

Let's get the latest

from Ellie Price who joins me now.

0:36:090:36:16

What have they done?

This is about

basically whether momentum have done

0:36:160:36:21

their accounting properly. To use a

technical jargon they are registered

0:36:210:36:28

non-party campaigner, but they took

part in a lot of the campaigning in

0:36:280:36:32

the recent general election, now

their accounts show that they spent

0:36:320:36:40

£38,000 across all four parts of the

United Kingdom and Northern Ireland,

0:36:400:36:44

the spending limit on such groups

like Momentum is 39,000. So they

0:36:440:36:51

came in short of that. The

electorate commission say because

0:36:510:36:55

they are so high profile any

question of their compliance could

0:36:550:37:00

risk causing harm to voters'

confidence. They say they want to

0:37:000:37:03

look, whether they have done their

accounting properly and whether they

0:37:030:37:08

put in things like receipts for

things that are more than £200.

0:37:080:37:16

With me now is Aaron Bastani,

founder of Novara Media

0:37:160:37:18

and a Momentum supporter.

0:37:180:37:23

Your group has admitted errors?

What

group? Momentum?

Sorry momentum.

0:37:230:37:29

That is probably likely. In terms of

how large the operation is, there

0:37:290:37:34

will be small administrative error,

my personal experience of momentum,

0:37:340:37:38

I wasn't relaying money to anybody

in the election, was they took

0:37:380:37:44

probity and the whole regulatory

framework round the lobbying act

0:37:440:37:48

seriously. But

But they said they

have committed error, so they

0:37:480:37:53

haven't kept the standards that are

necessary.

I hope that is treated

0:37:530:37:58

appropriately, I hope there is an

adequate response and it is not done

0:37:580:38:01

in future. The lobbying act which

was only past in 2014, I personally

0:38:010:38:07

think isn't really fit for purpose.

Why?

It is meant to basically

0:38:070:38:12

constrain spending by any

organisation in a 12 month period

0:38:120:38:16

prior to an election, when you have

a snaplike sthaun goes out of the

0:38:160:38:21

window.

You would say that because

Momentum has been caught making

0:38:210:38:27

error, do you think is important to

have rules on spending

Fiscal

0:38:270:38:33

probity is key to democracy.

You

have no problem with the Electoral

0:38:330:38:37

Commission.

No, it is an inherently

central crucial part.

Owen Jones who

0:38:370:38:47

is also a member of Momentum said

the electorate commission who let

0:38:470:38:51

the for es are off hook because they

can't believe Momentum did so well

0:38:510:38:57

on a show string budget. That sounds

like sour grapes to me.

What I would

0:38:570:39:02

say is that the reception of it in

some quarters will be political.

0:39:020:39:07

There is an instinctive shock,

think, for many people, even on the

0:39:070:39:11

left as well about just how much

Momentum did with so few resources.

0:39:110:39:17

You are sayingst same thing.

I

haven't seen the case.

You have just

0:39:170:39:22

said yourself that people can't

believe that people did so well. Are

0:39:220:39:26

you saying the Electoral Commission

as a result of that is pickingup on

0:39:260:39:29

add my opinion strative errors.

I

think it is plausible. They wouldn't

0:39:290:39:35

be doing their job if they didn't.

It is a shock they kid so much with

0:39:350:39:39

so little. Little. That was powered

by people not vested interests and

0:39:390:39:44

my personal view is the Electoral

Commission will find nothing. ? Do

0:39:440:39:48

you any it is part of an establish.

That can't believe how well they di?

0:39:480:39:53

It is more complex. I would like to

see the gagging act that has been

0:39:530:39:57

called completely changed under a

Labour Government.

0:39:570:40:02

It is a central part of the function

of democracy, I think the political

0:40:020:40:06

representative ception is more

important than anything the

0:40:060:40:10

Electoral Commission is doing.

You

accept it causes harm to voter

0:40:100:40:16

coughed?

Most won't know about it or

care less about it. That might be a

0:40:160:40:21

good or bad thing. We know in

matters surrounding spending the

0:40:210:40:26

public doesn't seem to take

particular interest, which is a bad

0:40:260:40:29

thing if you look at what happened

between the Ukip and Tories. Imseems

0:40:290:40:35

striking that the Tories bought

three by-elections.

You have your

0:40:350:40:39

attention on that?

I have seen the

specifics of that case. It seems

0:40:390:40:43

striking. I was surprised harsher

action wasn't taken

0:40:430:40:47

I was surprised harsher

action wasn't taken

0:40:470:40:49

The new Defence Secretary,

Gavin Williamson, has said that

0:40:490:40:51

British nationals who join so-called

Islamic State should not be

0:40:510:40:54

allowed to return to the UK

and that we should do all we can

0:40:540:40:57

to "eliminate" the threat they pose.

0:40:570:40:58

Despite that some jihadis have

returned to the UK and the issue

0:40:580:41:01

of how we treat them is the subject

of fierce debate.

0:41:010:41:04

The Labour MP John Woodcock has

suggested that the amount of time

0:41:040:41:07

allowed for pre-charge detention be

extended for those who've fought

0:41:070:41:09

abroad to allow security services

to build a case against them.

0:41:090:41:19

The first terror lawses were

introduced between 1974, and 1989.

0:41:210:41:28

Aimed attacking Northern Irish

related terrorism. Individuals could

0:41:280:41:32

be arrest without a warrant on

reasonable suspicion they were

0:41:320:41:36

involved in act of terrorism with an

initial period of 48-hours extended

0:41:360:41:41

to five day, that legislation was

updated in 2000. Among other

0:41:410:41:45

measures police were given the power

to detain people arrested for

0:41:450:41:49

terrorism offences, for seven days

without charge. Then, in the wake of

0:41:490:41:54

the 9/11 attack, the anti-terrorism

Crime and Security Act of 2001 was

0:41:540:41:58

introduced. It was seen as way of

internationalising the war on

0:41:580:42:02

terror. And allow inner the Home

Secretary to indefinitely detain

0:42:020:42:06

without charge or trial foreign

nationals who were suspected of

0:42:060:42:11

terrorism, though that was later

ruled unlawfulful

0:42:110:42:16

On the seventh July 2005, for

suicide bombers attacked Central

0:42:160:42:20

London. Killing 52 people and

injuring hundreds more. It was the

0:42:200:42:26

worst single tourist axxxx terrorist

atrocity on British soil. The

0:42:260:42:30

Government proposed plans for 90

days detention without charge of

0:42:300:42:34

terror suspects.

It was Tony Blair's first commons

0:42:340:42:43

defeat. Instead, the detention time

was limiteded to 28 days.

0:42:430:42:49

New Labour had another go in 2000,

proposing to put the limit up to 42

0:42:490:42:54

days. The then Shadow Home Secretary

David Davis resigned his seat to

0:42:540:43:00

fight a by-election on the

principles of British liberty, but

0:43:000:43:02

the plans were thrown out by the

Lords. In 2012, the coalition

0:43:020:43:08

Government and the then Home

Secretary changed the detention

0:43:080:43:12

limit back down to 14 day as the

protection of freedoms act. During

0:43:120:43:17

the election campaign and following

the Manchester and London Bridge

0:43:170:43:23

attacks she hinted that could change

When we have enough evidence to know

0:43:230:43:31

they are a threat, but not enough

evidence to prosecute them in full

0:43:310:43:35

in court.

And if... If our human rights laws

0:43:350:43:40

stop us from doing it we will change

the law so we can do it.

0:43:400:43:48

Jan, you have add indicateded an

increase to the current 28 day

0:43:480:43:52

maximum. Sorry 14 days with

precharge detention, what should the

0:43:520:43:56

limit be?

Well, I don't know, that

is something I think that the

0:43:560:44:03

Government should take immediate

detailed advise from the police and

0:44:030:44:06

security services about the

difficult diand how long it will

0:44:060:44:11

take to amass the evidence, against

these Brits who have gone over the

0:44:110:44:18

fight for Daesh, are already

returning to British shores, despite

0:44:180:44:23

what the Defence Secretary may say

in the press, and it will take some

0:44:230:44:28

time to amass that case.

So you

could be supportive of a move beyond

0:44:280:44:33

even 28 days.

Yes, of course I think

we need to be, we need to bring in

0:44:330:44:40

legislation, that will actually give

the authorities, the time to build

0:44:400:44:46

that case, because in the

overwhelming majority of cases

0:44:460:44:51

British men and women who go over

to, into that region, are not doing

0:44:510:44:58

so for appropriate reasons, there is

overwhelming suspicion they have

0:44:580:45:03

fought against British force,

against the British state, but, of

0:45:030:45:07

course our due process means we need

time to amass that case and be able

0:45:070:45:10

to put it in front of a judge.

0:45:100:45:15

Isn't it necessary when we face

hundreds coming back who have fought

0:45:150:45:19

in Syria?

No. It is not necessary. I

think it would be a really dangerous

0:45:190:45:23

move. Just to give you a sense of

the context, the UK currently can

0:45:230:45:28

detain people without charge for 14

days. That puts us out of step with

0:45:280:45:33

every other comparable democracy.

So, in France, even under the state

0:45:330:45:37

of emergency you can only detain

people for six days. In US, two

0:45:370:45:40

days. In Russia, only four days T

the Security Services and the police

0:45:400:45:51

are not suggesting they need more

time. There is just no evidence at

0:45:510:45:54

all to say that we need more time.

What is fundamental here is we are

0:45:540:45:59

playing fast and lose with the

values that this democracy is built

0:45:590:46:03

on. This is due process. This is

about saying people will be tried on

0:46:030:46:07

evidence before independent judges.

If you take people out of their

0:46:070:46:10

communities and you detain them for

days on end, on the say so of the

0:46:100:46:15

police or the Security Services, you

will deepen the divisions that this

0:46:150:46:18

society faces.

Where is your

evidence? There doesn't seem to be

0:46:180:46:23

anything to back up by the police

that they want more time?

We are in

0:46:230:46:28

a new situation. We have Daesh who

are collapsing in Syria, so many

0:46:280:46:34

hundreds of Brits who have gone over

are now either arriving back or will

0:46:340:46:39

in the coming months potential I

will be arriving back on these

0:46:390:46:42

shores. And that is what makes the

situation different to where we are

0:46:420:46:46

in the past.

Are there any examples

of the police who have an IS-related

0:46:460:46:52

suspect that they are or want to

charge, that they have actually

0:46:520:46:55

asked for longer than 14 days?

I

want to hear from the Home Secretary

0:46:550:46:59

whether that is a case. I raised it

with her in Parliament. During her

0:46:590:47:03

statement this week she said this

was worth considering and she would

0:47:030:47:06

come back to me and to the House on

this matter.

You accept at the

0:47:060:47:11

moment there isn't any evidence yet.

I wouldn't expect there to be as

0:47:110:47:16

such because we are in this in u

situation where Brits who have been,

0:47:160:47:21

often that I would have been held,

they would have gone over under this

0:47:210:47:26

brainwashed idea that they could go

and fight for the caliphate, many

0:47:260:47:32

who went there, found the situation

was horrendous, but were prevented

0:47:320:47:37

on the certainty of death at the

hands of Daesh from returning. Now

0:47:370:47:43

as Daesh collapses they are getting

the opportunity to flee. This

0:47:430:47:47

problem of people arriving back into

the UK, potentially being very

0:47:470:47:51

dangerous is a new situation.

Do you

accept it is a different threat? It

0:47:510:47:54

is a new threat and the authorities

are struggling to know how to deal

0:47:540:47:58

with it? We've had a minister, the

Defence Secretary, saying they

0:47:580:48:01

shouldn't come back at all,

British-born fighters who go out

0:48:010:48:05

there. They should be killed out in

the field - what do you say to that?

0:48:050:48:10

I think that is an extraordinary

position for a western democracy to

0:48:100:48:14

take. I accept of course there is a

threat. I am a Londoner. I get on

0:48:140:48:19

the tube every morning. I want good

security for me and my family and

0:48:190:48:23

everyone else in this country. We

don't have any evidence that the

0:48:230:48:26

police and the Security Services

need these extra powers.

Not yet.

If

0:48:260:48:30

there was, would you consider?

I

don't think the situation now has

0:48:300:48:35

radically changed. We talked about

Northern Ireland earlier. A policy

0:48:350:48:40

of internment is widely recognised

now to have deepened it by police

0:48:400:48:45

officers, by civil servants and

politicians. Coming on to Gavin

0:48:450:48:49

Williamson's point, the idea that

this country would advocate for

0:48:490:48:53

arbitrary killings abroad. We are a

country that disallows the death

0:48:530:48:56

penalty. We are a country that is

proud to say that we try people

0:48:560:49:00

before the law.

If they have fought

against their country, if they are

0:49:000:49:06

as people would see them traitors

and they are coming back with that

0:49:060:49:09

hateful ideology, what is arbitrary

about it?

So what you need to do, if

0:49:090:49:17

they are fighters and fighting, you

bring them back, you mount a case

0:49:170:49:22

against them and you try them and

lock them up for a long time.

We are

0:49:220:49:25

told it is difficult to get that

evidence from the field.

If what we

0:49:250:49:29

are saying is these people should be

taken out, killed in drone strikes

0:49:290:49:34

there must be, surely, more evidence

to justify killing than you would

0:49:340:49:37

ever need to justify just a charge

and a prosecution.

What about the

0:49:370:49:41

problem, if the evidence is

presented that justified in your

0:49:410:49:45

mind an increase to that 14-day

detention period, let's say 28 days

0:49:450:49:51

or beyond - what would that do to

community relations? What would it

0:49:510:49:55

do holding people while you mount a

case only to find that the evidence

0:49:550:49:58

is not there?

I think the

overwhelming majority are horrified

0:49:580:50:07

that some of their young people have

gone over to fight an ideology which

0:50:070:50:13

they, in every bit of every other

faith and none believe is abhorrent

0:50:130:50:18

to Islam and to British values.

Look

at internment - it didn't help the

0:50:180:50:23

situation, did it?

I think parallels

to Northern Ireland only go so far

0:50:230:50:29

on this. And actually I would hope

that communities right across

0:50:290:50:35

Britain will want to see the best

prospect of the British justice

0:50:350:50:42

system being enacted against these

people.

If powerful evidence is

0:50:420:50:45

brought from the Security Services

and the police to say we need more

0:50:450:50:48

time, will you support it?

No. At

some point we have to stand up for

0:50:480:50:53

our values. There may be a tradeoff.

This would not be British justice.

0:50:530:50:57

If you detain people for days and

days of on end that is arbitrary

0:50:570:51:03

detention on behalf of the state.

That is a slippery slope. We would

0:51:030:51:08

have to focus on refoe using the

police so they could do those

0:51:080:51:12

investigations more thoroughly in a

time period which now works.

And the

0:51:120:51:20

trade-off would be what? Increased

security risk to this country?

The

0:51:200:51:25

tradeoff is we stand by our freedom.

We stand by the values that

0:51:250:51:30

terrorists seek to destroy. At the

moment there is no suggestion we

0:51:300:51:33

need these arbitrary powers. We

would be very wrong to cane into

0:51:330:51:40

those that our adversaries do.

When

will you have a timescale?

I will

0:51:400:51:44

press the Home Secretary about that

this week and about, there is some

0:51:440:51:51

element of agreement. Of course I

believe it is appropriate that

0:51:510:51:57

British combatants on the field of

battle are appropriate target. But

0:51:570:52:00

the idea they would surrender,

become prisoners of war and then we

0:52:000:52:04

would execute them completely

disredwarding the again the very --

0:52:040:52:11

disregarding the Geneva Convention

puts our own troops at risk.

0:52:110:52:14

Time Magazine has awarded its Person

of the Year award not to a single

0:52:160:52:19

person but to a group of people it

has named the "Silence Breakers" -

0:52:190:52:23

the women and men who came forward

to talk about sexual

0:52:230:52:25

abuse and harassment.

0:52:250:52:27

The movement is most closely

associated with the #MeToo hashtag

0:52:270:52:34

It got people to speak about their

own abuses.

0:52:340:52:42

a host of other women and men

including journalist Jane Merrick

0:52:420:52:45

who spoke out about how

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon had

0:52:450:52:47

"lunged" at her in 2003,

leading to his resignation

0:52:470:52:50

from the Cabinet in November

and Labour activist and campaigner

0:52:500:52:53

Bex Bailey who revealed earlier this

year that she was raped at a party

0:52:530:52:57

event as a teenager,

but was discouraged

0:52:570:52:58

from reporting the assault.

0:52:580:53:03

Let's see what some of the people

had to say about the award.

0:53:060:53:09

. We can't all be sluts. We can't

all be asking for it.

This reality

0:53:090:53:16

might not have to be our reality any

more.

I felt this crushing sense of

0:53:160:53:21

powerfullessness. This is the time

to take my power back.

Sexual

0:53:210:53:27

harassment...

I felt it was my duty

for the women who are silent to be

0:53:270:53:32

brave.

It is OK to stand up for

yourself.

0:53:320:53:37

Appealing in court today...

People

forget there is a human behind this.

0:53:370:53:41

Someone who is very hurt and

wronged.

0:53:410:53:47

I always thought maybe things could

change for my daughter. I never

0:53:530:53:57

thought things could change for me.

0:53:570:54:02

And I'm joined now by journalist

Jane Merrick who is one

0:54:020:54:04

of the people who has been

recognised as Time Magazine's Person

0:54:040:54:07

of the Year award.

0:54:070:54:07

Welcome to the programme. How do you

feel? Congratulations.

I feel

0:54:080:54:13

incredibly proud to be on this list

of extraordinary women and men from

0:54:130:54:18

all parts of society. Not just the

prominent individuals we have heard

0:54:180:54:22

about. There is a strawberry picker

who was sexually harassed and hotel

0:54:220:54:28

workers it is all parts of society.

When you wrote the article about

0:54:280:54:34

your specific experience with

Michael Fallon when he lunge at you

0:54:340:54:38

in that lunch in 2003, did you have

any idea of the impact it would

0:54:380:54:42

have?

I didn't realise it would have

this impact. When you are caught up

0:54:420:54:46

in something like that you don't

realise. Obviously I was aware of

0:54:460:54:53

the Harvey Weinstein allegations

which hit a few weeks before. The

0:54:530:54:59

sequence of events the issues

involving Westminster were

0:54:590:55:04

triflelised.

0:55:040:55:14

D

You felt nothing would be done

about sexual harassment, an abuse of

0:55:140:55:18

power here?

Michael Fallon had been

identified. He was involved with a

0:55:180:55:22

story touching a knee and it was

dealt with in her own way. But he

0:55:220:55:26

was saying that was sort of, it was

a long time ago and that was the

0:55:260:55:30

kind of thing that happened. I knew

what had happened to me was not

0:55:300:55:33

acceptable at the time and it was

not acceptable then. I was aware of

0:55:330:55:39

other allegations involving women

who could not speak out. That is why

0:55:390:55:42

I went public.

Why didn't you

before?

It is an interesting

0:55:420:55:47

question I have had to answer myself

and why when I was 29 didn't I

0:55:470:55:51

report to the whips or to the

newspaper I worked. I go to the

0:55:510:55:56

heart of this problem, I was scared

of being blacklisted by the

0:55:560:56:01

Conservative Party, that no Tory MP

would want to go out for lunch and

0:56:010:56:04

reprisals. When I was reporting

Michael Fallon to Downing Street I

0:56:040:56:09

was still worried about being

untrustworthy, somehow.

Have there

0:56:090:56:15

been reprisals? Has there been a

back lash at all?

Not something I

0:56:150:56:21

can put my finger on. There has been

a bit of criticism on twitter, but

0:56:210:56:31

broadly supportive.

Do you think

there is and more should be made of

0:56:310:56:34

the fact there is a difference

between what you might call clumsy

0:56:340:56:38

flirting - what you might call

inappropriate behaviour and sexual

0:56:380:56:48

harassment and them all lumped

together?

We are not aKuwaiting that

0:56:480:56:52

type of behaviour. We are not

equating what happened to me with

0:56:520:57:01

Bex Bailey

This was unacceptable.

This was not flirting. This was not

0:57:010:57:08

making a pass. He crossed the line.

People realise that. The rules of

0:57:080:57:13

flirting have not changed. The rules

of how we tolerate it have. Do you

0:57:130:57:23

think something will be done?

It is

great to have this. Times Person of

0:57:230:57:29

the Year, I don't want it to be just

about 2017, I don't want it to be

0:57:290:57:34

just the story of 2017, something

has to change. If we, I am very

0:57:340:57:37

lucky to have this platform to be

able to talk about it. We have to

0:57:370:57:40

carry on talking about it and making

sure that a culture will change.

0:57:400:57:44

That is the only way we will make a

difference, not for me and the

0:57:440:57:47

people on the list, but for women

who cannot speak out, for women who

0:57:470:57:52

are being harassed.

0:57:520:57:53

There's just time before we go

to find out the answer to our quiz.

0:57:550:57:58

Yesterday Stanley Johnson,

father of Boris, was booted out

0:57:580:58:01

of the Jungle in I'm a Celebrity.

0:58:010:58:02

He said he was looking forward

to checking his emails,

0:58:020:58:05

but what did he want to find out?

0:58:050:58:07

Was it: a) If England

were winning the Ashes?

0:58:070:58:09

B) If his son, Boris,

was still Foreign Secretary?

0:58:090:58:11

C) If Donald Trump had

abandoned Twitter?

0:58:110:58:13

Or d) If he was getting an invite

to the Royal wedding next year?

0:58:130:58:17

I think it was whether Boris has

kept his job. Let's have a look.

0:58:190:58:25

What are you looking

forward to, now you're out?

0:58:270:58:29

I'm absolutely looking

forward to my e-mails.

0:58:290:58:31

Are you really?

0:58:310:58:31

Isn't that pathetic?

0:58:310:58:33

I want to know what's been happening

in the great outside.

0:58:330:58:35

It's been very very quiet.

0:58:350:58:36

I want to know if Boris is still

Foreign Secretary, for example.

0:58:360:58:39

I mean, I want to know that.

0:58:390:58:41

I am sure he is, he's

doing a fantastic job.

0:58:410:58:46

That's all for today.

0:58:460:58:47

Thanks to our guests.

0:58:470:58:50

The One o'clock News is starting

over on BBC One now.

0:58:500:58:57

Andrew will be back tonight with

This Week.

0:58:570:59:00

Goodbye.

0:59:000:59:02

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