17/01/2018 Daily Politics


17/01/2018

Andrew Neil presents live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions. Andrew is joined by Oliver Dowden and Chi Onwurah to discuss Carillion and Labour's National Executive Committee.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks.

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Welcome to the Daily Politics.

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As the full scale of construction

firm Carillion's financial woes

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become clear, pressure piles

on the Government to explain exactly

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what they knew about the troubles

before awarding the company millions

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of pounds of public contracts.

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Will Jeremy Corbyn ask

about Carillion's collapse

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at Prime Minister's Questions?

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We'll have the exchanges

between Theresa May and the Labour

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leader live from the House

of Commons at 12pm.

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And, as the pro-Corbyn wing

takes over key committees

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within the Labour Party,

we'll ask what this means

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for the future of Labour politics.

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All that in the next hour.

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And joining us today, new

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Cabinet Office Minister Oliver

Dowden, and Shadow Business

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Minister Chi Onwurah.

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Good morning.

Good morning.

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First, the UK's second-biggest

contractor, Carillion, had just

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£29 million in cash and owed

£1.29 billion to its banks when it

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collapsed this week.

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It is a name we now all know,

although not many did before.

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although not many did before. It had

a unfunded pension liabilities of

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£600 million as well.

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As the full scale of the crisis

in the company's dying

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days becomes clear, do

the Government have questions

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to answer over millions of pounds

of public contracts awarded

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to the company after

repeated profit warnings?

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One of the Goverment's ministers

under fire is the Transport

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Secretary, Chris Grayling, who

signed a contract for HS2 after

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Carillion's Jim White profit

warning. The BBC tried to track him

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down this morning, and this is what

he had to say -- as Carillion's Jim

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White profit warning.

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I'll very happily talk

to you guys later.

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I'm doing interviews

this morning but I'm

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going to get a train now,

I'm afraid.

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Speak to my office and book

a slot later but I've

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got to get a train now.

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Well, that wasn't very informative!

Let's see if we can do better here

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in the studio this morning. Oliver

Dowden, in July of last year, the

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Chief Executive of Carillion was

fired, there was an £840 million

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write-off on the balance sheet, and

the shares fell 60% in two days.

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Yet, one week later, denied the

17th, the Government made it part of

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the £6 billion HS2 contract, and

£158 million MOD property contract.

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Why?

Well, the Government keeps

these situations under control. And

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we look at the situation of all of

our contractors. In of Carillion, a

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profit warning had been issued.

Dozens of profit warnings are issued

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every year, you wouldn't expect the

Government or any other private

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company to cease contracting with

somebody just on the basis of a

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profit warning. But you would expect

in Team Janzen, that is a crack in

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what we did, we made contingency

plans -- -- you would expect

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contingency and that is exactly what

they did. We have plans that of one

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company fell away the others would

step up and service delivery would

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continue, that has been the priority

of the Government, we are delivering

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those servers.

July was one bit of

bad news, but not enough to make you

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stop giving contracts. On September

the 20 I have last year, the

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half-year results of the company

came out. It showed £1.15 billion of

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losses. £1.15 billion! And another

£200 million write-down. And yet

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five weeks later, on November the

6th, you gave them a £320 million

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Network Rail contract for the

Midland Mainline. Why?

Look, our

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duty as a Government is to ensure

the continuing delivery of public

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services. These were contracts with

a private company to deliver those

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public services. Our concern...

As a

construction contract, not a public

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service...

Our concern is a

Government is to ensure the

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continued delivery of public

services in respect of all of those

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contracts...

But you could have

given it to somebody else!

Yes, we

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go through a proper process of

procurement, they would decided as

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the correct bidder. There was a risk

associated because of the profit

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warnings. As with any other private

company contracted with a third

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party, you need to take contingency

measures, but it is not a basis for

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not contracting. We took contingency

measures, and delivery of public

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services continued, that is the

concern of Government.

We have one

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of the warnings in July, we had

another even bigger warning in

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September, they then got the

contract in November. On November

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the 17th, only two weeks after you

gave them the Midland Mainline

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contract, came the third profit

warning. The third in one year.

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Which is unusual for one company.

And, the company admitted it was on

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course to breach its banking

covenants, which is a complicated

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way of saying it couldn't repay the

debt, of which was massive. Yet,

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three days later, you made it one of

nine contractors in a £2.6 billion

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school building programme. Why?

As I

said, there is an independent

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recruitment process. The concern

that your viewers will have and

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everybody else will have --

independent procurement process. We

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are asking a company to do something

for the Government. Will it continue

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to do that? Subsequent to Carillion

going into liquidation, we are

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continuing to deliver...

By November

of this year, it was clearly in

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trouble and everybody knew, except,

apparently, the Government.

Our

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concern is to continue to deliver.

But why did you give contracts to

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this company when it was clearly in

trouble? You would be aware, or

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maybe you word, that it was, this is

a little technical, but the most

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shortage to stock on the stock

exchange, 25% of its shares were

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being held by people that bought the

shares were going to dive. But you

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carried on giving it contracts.

Yes,

there were clearly risks associated

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with that company and the Government

took measures to mitigate that. And

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the success of those mitigation

measures is shown by the fact that

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that company continues to deliver.

It is interesting to note...

The

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company doesn't continue to deliver!

You say it's just the Government,

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actually the last public sector

organisation to award preferred to

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get status to Carillion with Leeds

City Council -- preferred bidder.

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But you are the Government, and just

because some Labour council proved

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to be as cosy with Carillion as you,

doesn't let you off the hook. You

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had contingency plans, you are

keeping an eye on this company, but

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you had enough contracts with

Carillion for it to be designated a

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strategic of Government. An official

designation, and an official

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designation like that means that the

Government appoint a crown

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representative, a representative of

the state, to keep and I the company

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could -- because there are concerns.

And yet at the height of this

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financial problems, there was no

crown representative appointed, why?

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There was a crown representative by

the end, there was a change.

But

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there wasn't that the crucial time.

Remember, they have a whole team

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working to them. Those people were

in place. There was no adverse

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impact in terms of the delivery of

the services.

Is there any sense at

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which we see this? Because I think

even the Government must have known

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Carillion was in some trouble, and

you kept on giving it contracts. Was

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there any sense in which you were

doing this as a hidden subsidy,

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simply to try and keep the company

going in the hope that it would get

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out of its troubles?

No, there are

strict procurement roles. These

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companies, if they are to be awarded

a Government contract, they have to

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demonstrate they will deliver value

for money. Carillion won those

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processes. Once they have won them,

the Government had to be sure that

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they would continue to deliver.

But

why didn't you have a crown

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representative?

In respect of the

crown representative, they have a

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team working who continues to carry

out those functions. There was a

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crown representative in

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crown representative in place by the

end.

One quick question, can you now

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tell us this morning what the likely

cost to the taxpayer will be?

Well,

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what we have done is to ensure that

the official receiver is funded. The

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official receiver will continue to

pay out on those...

I do know all

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that! They put a bill on it. Do we

know how much?

That will depend upon

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the amount that the official

receiver can recover. The key

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priority is a continuing delivery of

public services, achieved by funding

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the official reserve who pays out

those contracts. It will depend upon

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how much the official receiver is

able to recover, that is perfectly

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standard in any liquidation

situation, as you know.

Why is the

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Carillion crisis a crisis of

outsourcing? Why is that? This is

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what your party has claimed.

Carillion crisis and the failure

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work from the gang tragic force of

many people who work for Carillion

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and -- were tragic force of many

people who work for Carillion. What

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Oliver won't say is that they

continue to give contracts to

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Carillion because they believe

ideological eat in giving public

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sector contracts... -- ideological

eat in giving.

ALL TALK AT ONCE. Why

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is there a crisis of outsourcing was

below because,

by giving these

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massive contracts to a small number

of private sector companies whose

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business models are predicated, if

you like, and bidding as low as

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possible for these contracts...

It

is public services.

It is a good

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thing if it is sustainable, but it

clearly wasn't. There were profit

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warnings, they were being

slaughtered. Their dividend payments

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were going up while that that was

dreading --. Yet this was a

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strategic supplier.

Is the jewel

argument that the Government's

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mistake was giving too many

contracts to Carillion, or that it

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should not have been giving them to

the private sector at all?

The fact

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that the Government was obliged, if

you like, to give so many contracts

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to one supplier demonstrates that it

should not have been outsourcing so

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much of our public services.

Should

these contracts have gone to the

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private sector or not?

So much of

our public services, schools,

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reasons, hospitals, should not be

delivered by the private sector.

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Because the profit motive does not

lead to the best outcomes for our

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students, our prisoners...

Carillion

wasn't brought down by outsourcing

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services, it was brought down by

construction contracts that went

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wrong. Now, one of the construction

contract which we bounded on it with

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the Aberdeen bypass. £750 million.

But there were delays. The

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receivables went as high as they

thought, that was one of the reasons

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for a write-down. Should the

Aberdeen bypass be built by a

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private construction company or what

not?

Each individual case depends on

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the nature of the tender.

I'm asking

you to principal... Should it be

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built by a private company or should

it be built by a publicly owned

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construction company?

Public

services should be delivered, I

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believe...

This isn't public

services, this is construction.

I

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wouldn't argue necessarily that it

should be built by... Sorry, Andrew,

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you made an important point. You

said it wasn't brought down by

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public services, it was brought down

by construction. And yet it was the

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ongoing need to service those public

services, our hospitals, our

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schools, etc, which is what...

The

other - British contracts which

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brought it down...

And the bidding,

and the bidding for key services...

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You keep on saying services, and it

wasn't services, that's what I'm

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trying to get to. It was brought

down clearly, we notice from the

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evidence in the High Court, by

construction contracts. Two of the

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other construction contracts were

because Buttle in Liverpool and they

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-- a because Buttle in Manchester.

Is it Labour's position that it was

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wrong to give this to Carillion what

wrong to give it to the private

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sector at all, and it should be done

by the public sector?

Where

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possible... So, Carillion is a shell

company, and the supply chain for

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the support for delivering

construction services to the public

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sector needs to be examined and

investigated. This is a really

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important point...

Should we build

our hospitals using private

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companies, or should they be built

by the public sector? Is this

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Labour's position?

Suppliers and

contractors to the public sector,

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which can include the building of a

black sector construction and

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hospitals, they should have

sustainable business models -- for

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the construction sector. The supply

chains should not be so long. Our

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argument is that we need the

capacity within the public sector to

0:14:160:14:19

manage these...

To manage, but not

to build?

Not necessarily to build.

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The public sector doesn't have to do

everything. When it comes to the

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delivery of public services and the

management of public assets there

0:14:300:14:33

needs to be the capacity within the

public sector to do that directly.

0:14:330:14:37

We need to move on.

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Now, internal Labour Party democracy

may not seem like blockbuster stuff,

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but it has been a key battleground

between opposing factions

0:14:420:14:44

of the Labour Party since

Jeremy Corbyn became leader,

0:14:440:14:46

and determines the future

direction of the party.

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The Corbynite camp has been

celebrating big wins this week.

0:14:480:14:51

Here's Emma with all the details.

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Last September, two Momentum-backed

candidates won posts

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on the Conference Arrangements

Committee - giving them control

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of selecting and prioritising

motions for the annual conference.

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And earlier this week,

three other candidates supported

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by Momentum won seats on the party's

National Executive Committe -

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the supreme decision-making body -

swinging it into the Left's control.

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The three new members included

Momentum founder Jon Lansman,

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who has in the past talked

about introducing mandatory

0:15:220:15:25

reselection for sitting MPs.

0:15:250:15:28

Yesterday, Corbyn supporters used

that new NEC majority to take

0:15:280:15:31

control of the party's

disciplinary committee,

0:15:310:15:34

ousting longstanding

Chair of the Disputes

0:15:340:15:36

Sub-Committee, Ann Black,

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and replacing her with

Momentum Director - and NEC member -

0:15:400:15:43

Christine Shawcroft.

0:15:430:15:44

It means the Left of the party now

have control of the panel that

0:15:440:15:47

decides whether to investigate

anti-Semitic, racist,

0:15:470:15:50

homophobic and sexist abuse,

as well as other disciplinary cases.

0:15:500:15:56

Internal clashes broke

out within the party,

0:15:560:15:58

with Young Labour NEC rep

Jasmin Beckett saying

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she was "disgusted" by the removal

of Ann Black, and accusing Momentum

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of treating the committee

as a "factional playground".

0:16:050:16:07

But Christine Shawcroft told

the Mirror, "I really don't know

0:16:100:16:13

what all the fuss is about",

denying there was a

0:16:130:16:15

"left-wing takeover".

0:16:150:16:21

Thank you for that. Tony Robinson,

one of your better-known Labour

0:16:210:16:27

Party members, famous as Blackadder,

long a Labour Party activist, says,

0:16:270:16:33

"Labour's now been taken over by

leftist clique". Is he right?

What

0:16:330:16:38

happened is that we had a democratic

election.

We know that. But as the

0:16:380:16:43

result of the election...

As a

consequence of members of the

0:16:430:16:50

largest political party by

membership in Europe voting. About

0:16:500:16:53

that as a takeover, I believe that

is absolutely not the case. We have

0:16:530:16:57

a democracy and people voted and not

everybody is happy with every result

0:16:570:17:05

of the Democratic party.

Ann Black,

the well-respected chair of the

0:17:050:17:08

NEC's disputes panel, was it right

to get rid of her?

The NEC has 39

0:17:080:17:17

people on it. When you have new

members, there is often a

0:17:170:17:20

reassignment of its possibilities.

I'm not on the NEC. I don't know

0:17:200:17:24

what her qualifications were but it

is right that there should be the

0:17:240:17:28

ability...

Was right to get rid of

her?

I am not on the NEC.

You still

0:17:280:17:33

have a view. You have no view on

this?

The level of interest in our

0:17:330:17:40

National Executive Committee

subpanel... If that had been the

0:17:400:17:42

same level of interest in

Carillion's board, for example, and

0:17:420:17:45

the same level of bureaucracy...

Your failure to answer these

0:17:450:17:49

questions will ensure that the

interest in the NEC is going to

0:17:490:17:53

write it have no view on whether it

is right that an black should have

0:17:530:17:56

been removed?

I think it is right to

follow our procedures to elect...

0:17:560:18:01

The disputes process will still

remain exactly the same.

Are you

0:18:010:18:11

comfortable but it is now being

chaired by a woman who thought we

0:18:110:18:18

should invite Islamic State to tea

rather than bomb them in Iraq, and

0:18:180:18:24

that that Lutfur Rahman in Tower

Hamlets, who had been banned for

0:18:240:18:27

five years from office and guilty of

electoral fraud? Are you comfortable

0:18:270:18:31

that that is the person now running

your disputes panel? Chisnall it is

0:18:310:18:36

absolutely right that the person

running our disputes panel should be

0:18:360:18:38

accountable for what she has said in

the past, and it follows our

0:18:380:18:41

processes. Two things... Are you

comfortable that the person in

0:18:410:18:46

charge of your disputes panel has

this background? Either you are or

0:18:460:18:51

you aren't.

It is really important

that we have robust processes. We

0:18:510:18:56

need robust processes to make sure

hate speech and anti-Semitism and

0:18:560:19:01

racism in have no part in the Labour

Party and that is how it is now. I

0:19:010:19:08

want my constituents to know that

when I get up in the morning, I am

0:19:080:19:12

not working on looking at what the

exact composition of our NEC... I'm

0:19:120:19:17

trying to make sure there are jobs

in Newcastle, that there are...

You

0:19:170:19:23

do that every day but the NEC is the

story yesterday and today. The woman

0:19:230:19:26

who headed

0:19:260:19:33

who headed the NEC, last year, she

spoke at a rally to celebrate the

0:19:330:19:37

30th anniversary of the domain is

revolution in Iran. Does Labour

0:19:370:19:46

celebrate that revolution?

We don't

celebrate a revolution. If you are

0:19:460:19:52

asking, was she doing that as the

representative and speaking for the

0:19:520:19:56

Labour Party, no, she wasn't.

She

said, "We are here for a

0:19:560:20:02

celebration, it is a happy time, the

third year I have been, it is always

0:20:020:20:06

in my diary". Are you happy that the

person that got the most votes in

0:20:060:20:10

the NEC election seems to regard the

Iranian Islamic revolution as a good

0:20:100:20:15

thing? Is it a good thing?

I don't

share the same views as everybody in

0:20:150:20:24

every position in the Labour Party

and that is right, because we have

0:20:240:20:29

broad representative

cross-section...

What is your view

0:20:290:20:34

of the Islamist revolution?

My view

of the Islamist revolution is that

0:20:340:20:37

because it is not directly relevant

to my constituency in Newcastle

0:20:370:20:44

right now, I certainly feel that our

position on Iran and supporting the

0:20:440:20:50

democracy in Iran and elsewhere is

as set out by our shadow secretary.

0:20:500:20:56

What evidence has Labour ever given

in recent weeks that it supports the

0:20:560:21:02

democratic process in Iran?

We are a

party of democracy. You're talking

0:21:020:21:13

about our NEC elections.

Did Jeremy

Corbyn, did John McDonnell, did

0:21:130:21:17

Emily Thornberry, your foreign

affairs spokesman... Did any of them

0:21:170:21:21

but words of support to the

democratic protesters?

We are a

0:21:210:21:27

democratic party.

You said that. Any

public support Labour has given for

0:21:270:21:35

the democratic protesters in Iran?

We support democracy. We are a

0:21:350:21:39

democratic party.

Who do you

support, then? Compared to the

0:21:390:21:47

Iranian government and the

democratic protesters, brave people

0:21:470:21:49

taking to the street, whose side are

you on?

I'm always on the side of

0:21:490:21:57

democracy and representation.

Yasmine Dar so you are on the side

0:21:570:22:00

of the protesters? By on the side of

democracy. I am not going to speak

0:22:000:22:06

for the predators because I don't

know them personally.

I am not

0:22:060:22:11

asking you to speak for every

protester, I am asking for a simple

0:22:110:22:14

view. The women who top the NEC poll

supported the revolution and

0:22:140:22:21

celebrate it on its 30th

anniversary. I'm asking you, since

0:22:210:22:26

this is the regime that has shot an

unarmed protesters, I am asking

0:22:260:22:31

whose side you are on.

I have said

very clearly I am always on the

0:22:310:22:36

side...

Why can't you bring yourself

to say you on the side of the

0:22:360:22:41

protesters?

I support those

supporting democracy. I don't want

0:22:410:22:44

you to be holding the accountable

for the actions of every single

0:22:440:22:48

protester.

I am asking for your

view.

My view is to support

0:22:480:22:52

democracy and support those who

support democracy.

Your new

0:22:520:22:56

vice-chair for youth, Ben Bradley,

advocated vasectomies for the vast

0:22:560:23:03

sea of unemployed wasters, quote. Is

this going to inform the next

0:23:030:23:06

roll-out of Universal Credit?

Of

course not, and he has apologised to

0:23:060:23:12

those comments. You made them five

years ago when he was 22 and I think

0:23:120:23:16

it was right for him to apologise.

It is bound to be what he thinks.

0:23:160:23:20

Now he has been called to account,

likely Labour people have done the

0:23:200:23:23

same, you run a mile.

He was 22 at

the time, five years ago. I think

0:23:230:23:29

his views have developed quite a

lot, as you might imagine anyone in

0:23:290:23:33

their early 20s changes their views,

and I think he has apologised and

0:23:330:23:37

that is clearly not the position of

the Conservative Party.

And it is

0:23:370:23:42

not the next age of Universal Credit

roller?

Of course it isn't.

Fair

0:23:420:23:47

enough.

0:23:470:23:51

Now, we've all been there -

after a big lunch and maybe a glass

0:23:510:23:54

or two of a good Shiraz,

the eyes start to feel heavy,

0:23:540:23:57

the eyelids droop and you just

can't keep them open.

0:23:570:24:00

It happens to most Daily Politics

viewers.

0:24:000:24:01

So, spare a thought for Conservative

MP Desmond Swayne -

0:24:010:24:03

seen here behind Ken Clarke

in the Commons - who looked

0:24:030:24:06

like he was stealing 40 winks

on the green benches rather

0:24:060:24:09

than listening to the Father

of the House's ruminations

0:24:090:24:11

on the EU Withdrawal Bill.

0:24:110:24:12

He did finally perk up,

just as Ken was offering

0:24:120:24:14

up his thoughts on the Charter

of Fundamental Rights.

0:24:140:24:19

Mr Swayne must be relieved

he didn't miss out on that.

0:24:190:24:26

Well, we know the Daily Politics

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0:24:260:24:29

action-packed, barnstormer

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0:26:330:26:41

It is 11:56am. It is a sunny

winter's morning and even to the

0:26:470:26:52

scaffolding, the clock faces shining

through. Prime Minister's Questions

0:26:520:26:55

coming up in a couple of minutes and

we are joined by John Pienaar. I

0:26:550:27:02

assume, given it involves public

sector contracts, outsourcing, all

0:27:020:27:06

that sort of thing, that Mr Corbyn

has no choice but to go on

0:27:060:27:09

Carillion.

I think he sees this as

an opportunity. It was described in

0:27:090:27:18

a social media video as a watershed.

That is how they see it. Potentially

0:27:180:27:23

in their hopes around Jeremy Corbyn,

a turning point where they turn the

0:27:230:27:27

tide of the argument against the

involvement of the private sector in

0:27:270:27:30

present form in these services of

the state, and it could be

0:27:300:27:35

interesting, although I'm always

hesitant to say that Prime

0:27:350:27:38

Minister's Questions is going to be

interesting.

These days that is

0:27:380:27:41

quite a bold statement.

But we will

see some sort of version of the

0:27:410:27:46

game, where does the buck stop? In

this case it is not just in case a

0:27:460:27:51

war the answers but what other

questions? Government ministers are

0:27:510:27:54

saying they will learn the lessons

of the Carillion affair but what

0:27:540:27:58

will these lessons be?

0:27:580:28:04

will these lessons be? Safeguards, a

better and clearer system of warning

0:28:040:28:06

lights were a company like

Carillion? But other in-built

0:28:060:28:10

problems system which can't be

ironed out? Is this an inevitable

0:28:100:28:14

consequence of the system that leads

winners and losers or should be

0:28:140:28:16

changed? Are these two questions

compatible? IPod is the government

0:28:160:28:21

have a clear line on this yet? The

government is in a different

0:28:210:28:28

position. They have substantial use

of private firms in the construction

0:28:280:28:32

of the structure and the root

servers for many years, going past

0:28:320:28:35

Labour governments and Gordon Brown

and Tony Blair. That is all by the

0:28:350:28:40

way because we have now got a new

leader. We can forget about BC,

0:28:400:28:45

before Corbyn, as far as this

argument goes. We have an

0:28:450:28:49

ideological split as white, may be

wider, than anything we have seen

0:28:490:28:52

since Margaret Thatcher, so that is

about the role of private sector in

0:28:520:28:58

the state in the 1980s. A lot of

enquiries are on the way, a couple

0:28:580:29:03

going to be taking place in

Parliament, in committee rooms,

0:29:030:29:06

probably the same time, and they

will lead to changes, but have

0:29:060:29:10

fundamental?

Government must feel on

the defensive on this.

I think they

0:29:100:29:14

must because when you see such a

high-profile failure, thousands of

0:29:140:29:17

public sector workers in doubt about

their future, private sector workers

0:29:170:29:21

with some certainty that their

futures are indeed question, lots of

0:29:210:29:26

Government money on the line, but we

don't how much, there are questions

0:29:260:29:29

that are difficult and a lot of

questions they can't answer so it is

0:29:290:29:33

going to test Theresa May.

Meanwhile

Brazil continues to trundle along in

0:29:330:29:37

terms of negotiations. Carillion, in

a way, we should all be grateful to

0:29:370:29:43

it because it is given something

else. About, even if there are bad

0:29:430:29:47

consequences to it, which is a

reason for not being grateful, but

0:29:470:29:52

is the EU on a kind of charm

offensive?

It is possible to over do

0:29:520:29:59

what Donald Tusk said the other day.

Which we do because that is what we

0:29:590:30:04

do. On one level of our brain, we

and the other part understand that

0:30:040:30:10

is to serious that. But when it

comes to Donald Tusk saying, we hope

0:30:100:30:15

to see you vote as if you will come

back. In saying that does not

0:30:150:30:21

necessarily make it any more likely,

beyond getting up the noses of the

0:30:210:30:24

Brexiteers. Which he succeeded in

doing. That was a surprise. Am I

0:30:240:30:31

right in thinking that the next

stage of the talks is not about our

0:30:310:30:38

actual future relationship with the

EU but we are going. First about the

0:30:380:30:42

transition period following March

2019.

Through the spring we are

0:30:420:30:49

supposed to be talking about the

divorce and the transition period.

0:30:490:30:53

This is crucial, the transition

particular, moving from being a

0:30:530:30:59

member to not being a member. The

government is committed to a time

0:30:590:31:03

period of maybe a couple of years.

There was an argument that says it

0:31:030:31:06

is going to lead a great deal more

than that and we're just at the

0:31:060:31:10

beginning of tying up a lot of those

details.

For governments, it usually

0:31:100:31:15

never rains but pours. There was a

BBC story this morning about the

0:31:150:31:19

number of nurses now just leaving

the NHS, including, I understand,

0:31:190:31:23

younger nurses, who probably haven't

completed their training all that

0:31:230:31:28

long ago. They have just decided to

go through all that training that

0:31:280:31:34

they don't want to be in the NHS.

That is so but it is layered on top

0:31:340:31:40

of a winter crisis. They have been

worried about it for many a month

0:31:400:31:51

and it has been argued the Brexiters

contributed, the number of nurses

0:31:510:31:58

from EU countries that have been

part of the workforce, is beginning

0:31:580:32:01

to dry up. The effects are being

felt.

It puts pressure... I hear

0:32:010:32:06

rumblings even on the Tory

backbenches, indeed even Jacob

0:32:060:32:10

Rees-Mogg, who you might not think

would be on the progressive wing of

0:32:100:32:13

the Tories, saying the Government is

going to have to come up with a new

0:32:130:32:17

model.

Sure. We're hearing this

interestingly from various quarters,

0:32:170:32:24

senior Conservative forces,

including the chairman of the 1922,

0:32:240:32:28

the tribal elders that the Tory

party at Westminster, talking about,

0:32:280:32:32

let's look at hi gated taxation,

earmarked taxes. Either way, there

0:32:320:32:37

is a recognition that crosses party

lines now but a long-term look at

0:32:370:32:41

NHS funding is a place we have not

been politically willing to go

0:32:410:32:47

before.

But if you were to announce

a long-term plan, if that was to

0:32:470:32:52

happen,, I think the key is in the

phrase long-term. Doesn't get us

0:32:520:32:55

through the funding problems we have

at the moment. It may have to do

0:32:550:33:00

both.

You can argue there is never

going to be enough money for the NHS

0:33:000:33:03

and you can sustain that argument.

You can also argue that the NHS will

0:33:030:33:08

need accelerating because that is

also true. In terms of how the

0:33:080:33:13

health system, preventative

medicine, all of this sort of thing,

0:33:130:33:15

there was a role for that, which

involve substantial transformation

0:33:150:33:19

in NHS pinking, to. On every level,

that is the sort of change that is

0:33:190:33:23

needed. The buck stops here and it

stops now.

And despite what critics

0:33:230:33:31

might say is death by a thousand

cuts, but that is the government

0:33:310:33:34

being assailed on all sides? Mrs May

is still there. She survives. She

0:33:340:33:43

keeps on going, Cabinet ministers

come and go, crises come and go. Her

0:33:430:33:50

resilience... I'm beginning to think

that even her critics are now

0:33:500:33:52

beginning to roll Appiah her for her

resilience is nothing else.

You can

0:33:520:33:58

safely say that is the case, certain

survival. Someone said somewhere,

0:33:580:34:03

maybe in a movie, about the World

War II Wellington bomb, whose chief

0:34:030:34:09

characteristic was the ability to

soak up black falling out of the

0:34:090:34:12

sky. Theresa May, among many other

things, seems to be our version of

0:34:120:34:17

that bomb.

I will have to get my old

air kicked out! On the Tory

0:34:170:34:24

backbenches, although there is no

enthusiasm for her, there is also no

0:34:240:34:28

move now to get rid of her?

That has

been so and still is. For reasons we

0:34:280:34:33

discussed more than once, which is

the sheer absence of a clear

0:34:330:34:39

successor and the absence of any

appetite on the backbenches to go

0:34:390:34:42

into a leadership contest, which is

in the most flattering reason to

0:34:420:34:45

carry on as Prime Minister but it is

a significant influence.

Do you

0:34:450:34:49

agree with that?

I've had the

privilege of working quite closely

0:34:490:34:52

with the Prime Minister, as I did

with the last one, and what I see

0:34:520:34:56

with is somebody who is very tough

and determined, has a real sense of

0:34:560:35:00

public service, and I think that is

what is driving her. She is not

0:35:000:35:03

somebody who is going to walk away

after a bad result, which we had

0:35:030:35:07

with the 27th election, she wants to

deliver for the country, and I think

0:35:070:35:11

that is what gets her up every

morning.

If, against all

0:35:110:35:15

conventional opinion, Mrs May does

survive, or this government does

0:35:150:35:18

survive, through to 2022, which is

when there has to be an election, I

0:35:180:35:25

will come back to that because, five

minutes late, we are going to PMQs.

0:35:250:35:27

This morning I had meetings in

addition to my duties in this House,

0:35:310:35:35

I shall have further such meetings

later today.

The Government must

0:35:350:35:40

take responsibility for its role in

the mess now left by Carillion.

0:35:400:35:46

Thousands of staff face

unemployment. SME suppliers face

0:35:460:35:49

going bust. But I'm concerned for

the 1400 Carillion apprentices, some

0:35:490:35:54

of whom I've met locally. It's not

good enough to pass the buck. Wilbur

0:35:540:36:01

Prime Minister guarantee today that

everyone of those apprentices will

0:36:010:36:04

be able to complete their training

and will be paid?

Well, can I say to

0:36:040:36:10

the honourable lady that I recognise

that of course this has been a

0:36:100:36:13

difficult time for a number of

people, concerned about their jobs

0:36:130:36:17

and public services and about their

pensions. I want first of all, if I

0:36:170:36:22

may, Mr Speaker, to provide

reassurance to all employees who are

0:36:220:36:25

working on public services for

Carillion that they shall continue

0:36:250:36:28

to turn up the works confident in

the knowledge that they will be paid

0:36:280:36:32

for the work that they are

providing. Of course, the Government

0:36:320:36:36

is not running Carillion. The

Government is actually a customer of

0:36:360:36:39

Carillion. Our focus has been on

ensuring that we are providing the

0:36:390:36:45

public services that they are

continuing to be provided and

0:36:450:36:52

interrupted -- and interrupted, to

reassure workers on those public

0:36:520:36:54

services that they will get paid. To

reassure pensioners, the support is

0:36:540:36:59

there for them. Yes, I'm coming onto

the apprentices. But it is important

0:36:590:37:07

that the Government is undertaking

its role to ensure that the services

0:37:070:37:11

it provides are continuing to be

provided. And I can assure the

0:37:110:37:14

honourable lady that we are aware of

the issues around apprentices, and

0:37:140:37:19

that's why the Minister with

responsibility for that will be

0:37:190:37:22

looking very carefully at what

action he takes.

Simon Hoare.

0:37:220:37:30

action he takes.

Simon Hoare.

What

better way to start the year of

0:37:310:37:35

engineering than to see

Manufacturing output at its highest

0:37:350:37:37

level in a decade? And productivity

on the up. Can I invite my right

0:37:370:37:45

honourable friend to commit and

confirm her Government to secure and

0:37:450:37:50

support UK manufacturing and the

important export it delivers?

Well,

0:37:500:37:56

I'm very happy, I'm very happy to

give my honourable friend that

0:37:560:38:00

commitment from the Government. And

he's absolutely right. It's very,

0:38:000:38:04

very pleasing to see the figures

that the ONS produced last week,

0:38:040:38:09

which show that production has now

grown for eight months, the longest

0:38:090:38:14

streak since 1994. Manufacturing

output is at its highest since

0:38:140:38:19

February 2008. And earlier this

month we saw the productivity growth

0:38:190:38:23

has had its best quarter since 2011.

That shows that our economy remains

0:38:230:38:29

strong, that we are continuing to

deliver secure, better paid jobs,

0:38:290:38:32

and we will continue to do that in

supporting our manufacturing sector.

0:38:320:38:37

Jeremy Corbyn.

Thank you, Mr

Speaker. In the last six months, the

0:38:370:38:44

Government has awarded more than £2

billion worth of contracts to

0:38:440:38:47

Carillion. It did so even after the

share price was in freefall, and the

0:38:470:38:55

company had issued profit warnings.

Why did the Government do that?

0:38:550:39:03

Why did the Government do that?

It

might be helpful if I just set out

0:39:030:39:06

for the right honourable gentleman

that a company's profit warning

0:39:060:39:12

means that it believes it will not

make as much profit as it had

0:39:120:39:16

expected to make.

LAUGHTER

0:39:160:39:22

If... If... The Government did... If

it was the case, if it was the case

0:39:260:39:35

that the Government pulled out of

contracts, or indeed private sector

0:39:350:39:40

companies pulled out of contracts

whenever a profit warning was

0:39:400:39:42

issued, that would be the best way

to ensure that companies failed and

0:39:420:39:48

the jobs were lost. It would also,

for the Government, raise real

0:39:480:39:57

issues about providing continued,

and interrupted public services.

0:39:570:39:59

Yes, we did, we did recognise that

it was a severe profit warning. And

0:39:590:40:06

that's why we took action in

relation to the contracts that we

0:40:060:40:09

issued. And we ensure that all but

one of those contracts was a joint

0:40:090:40:13

venture. What does that mean? It

means that there was another company

0:40:130:40:17

available to step in and take over

the contract. But I say the right

0:40:170:40:22

honourable gentleman, this wasn't

just an issue of the Government

0:40:220:40:27

issuing contracts. Actually we see

that the Labour run Welsh Government

0:40:270:40:32

issued a contract after a profit

warning last July. And only last

0:40:320:40:39

week, in the public sector, a public

sector body announced that Carillion

0:40:390:40:45

was their preferred bidder. Only

last week. Was that the Government?

0:40:450:40:50

No, that was Labour run Leeds City

Council.

0:40:500:40:57

Council.

Mr Speaker, for the record,

Leeds have not signed a contract

0:40:570:41:03

with Carillion. It's the Government

here's been handing out contracts.

0:41:030:41:09

It's the Goverment's responsibility

to ensure Carillion is properly

0:41:090:41:14

managed. Between July, Mr Speaker,

between July and the end of last

0:41:140:41:21

year, the share price of Carillion

fell by 90%. Three profit warnings

0:41:210:41:27

were issued. Unbelievably, some

contracts were awarded by the

0:41:270:41:32

Government even after the third

profit warning. Mr Speaker, it looks

0:41:320:41:40

like the Government was handing

Carillion public contracts either to

0:41:400:41:45

keep the company afloat, which

clearly hasn't worked, or it was

0:41:450:41:50

just deeply negligent of the crisis

that was coming down the line.

0:41:500:42:00

that was coming down the line.

Mr

Speaker, I'm very happy to once

0:42:000:42:02

questions when the right honourable

the woman asks one, but he didn't!

0:42:020:42:06

-- when the right honourable

gentleman.

0:42:060:42:09

Mr Speaker, I ask the Government if

they have been negligent or not, and

0:42:160:42:21

they clearly have been very

negligent. Tory MPs might shout, Mr

0:42:210:42:29

Speaker, but the reality is, as of

today, over 20,000 Carillion workers

0:42:290:42:34

are very worried about their future.

For many of them, the only recourse

0:42:340:42:39

tonight is the phone a DWP hotline.

The frailties were well-known. Hedge

0:42:390:42:47

fund is well betting against

Carillion since 2015. RBS banks,

0:42:470:42:53

state owned, making provision

against Carillion last year. The

0:42:530:42:56

Government is supposed to protect

public money through Crown

0:42:560:43:01

representatives, who was supposed to

monitor these powerful corporations

0:43:010:43:06

who get huge public contracts. So,

white, and this is a question, that

0:43:060:43:13

the Prime Minister needs to answer,

and the question is this... Why did

0:43:130:43:17

the position of Crown representative

to Carillion remained vacant during

0:43:170:43:25

the crucial period of August to

November, when the profit warnings

0:43:250:43:29

were being issued, the share price

was in freefall, and many people

0:43:290:43:33

were very worried?

I'm afraid I have

to say to the right honourable

0:43:330:43:39

gentleman, of course... And can I

say to the shadow front secretary, I

0:43:390:43:44

will indeed answer the question, but

I know that she herself has praised

0:43:440:43:48

Carillion in the past for the work

that they have done -- the Shadow

0:43:480:43:51

Foreign Secretary.

0:43:510:43:53

Can I say to the right honourable

gentleman, yes, there is obviously

0:43:590:44:03

now a Crown representative who's

been fully involved in the

0:44:030:44:06

Goverment's response. Before the

appointment of the Crown

0:44:060:44:11

representative, to replace the one

that had previously been in place,

0:44:110:44:14

the Government chief commercial

officer and the Cabinet Office

0:44:140:44:17

director of markets and suppliers

took over those responsibilities. It

0:44:170:44:20

was not the case that there was

nobody from the Government who was

0:44:200:44:24

looking at these issues, that's a

standard procedure, to ensure that

0:44:240:44:29

there was oversight of Carillion's

contracts with the Government during

0:44:290:44:32

the appointment of the Grand Rapids

and if.

Well, they clearly weren't

0:44:320:44:35

looking very well! Carillion went

into liquidation with debts we now

0:44:350:44:41

understand to be £1.29 billion. A

pension deficit of £600 million.

0:44:410:44:46

And, at the same time, this company

was paying out ever-increasing

0:44:460:44:50

shareholder dividends, whilst the

excessive bonuses to directors, and,

0:44:500:44:59

today, 8000 Carillion workers on

private sector contracts will no

0:44:590:45:02

longer be paid. The chief executive

is going to be paid, however, for

0:45:020:45:05

another ten months. One rule for the

super rich, another for everybody

0:45:050:45:11

else. Can the Prime Minister assure

the House today that not a single

0:45:110:45:16

penny more will go to the chief

executive or the directors of this

0:45:160:45:21

company?

Can I first stage of a

right honourable gentleman that

0:45:210:45:29

obviously this is a situation that

is changing as decisions are being

0:45:290:45:32

taken, but my understanding is that

there are a number of private sector

0:45:320:45:36

contracts who have now come to an

agreement, and facilities management

0:45:360:45:41

contractors who have come to an

agreement with the official receiver

0:45:410:45:44

that means that their work is --

their workers will indeed continue

0:45:440:45:50

to be paid. The official receiver is

doing their job of working with

0:45:500:45:53

those companies. He has raised the

issue of bonuses. Of course, people

0:45:530:45:57

are concerned about this issue and

want, and are rightly asking

0:45:570:46:02

questions about it. That's why we

are making sure that the official

0:46:020:46:05

receiver's investigation into the

business dealings of the company is

0:46:050:46:08

fast tracked, that it looks into the

conduct not just of current

0:46:080:46:14

directors, but also of previous

directors and their actions. And the

0:46:140:46:17

official receiver does have the

powers to ensure that, in reviewing

0:46:170:46:23

payments to executives, where those

payments are lawful are justified he

0:46:230:46:27

can take action to recover those

payments. -- are unlawful or

0:46:270:46:33

unjustified. It is important that

the official receiver is able to do

0:46:330:46:36

their job. It is also important, the

Goverment's job is to continue the

0:46:360:46:40

bright public services, and that is

what we are doing. The right

0:46:400:46:43

honourable gentleman said earlier,

it was the Goverment's job to ensure

0:46:430:46:48

that Carillion was properly managed.

We are because the of Carillion, not

0:46:480:46:52

the manager of Carillion, that is

the important difference but we are

0:46:520:46:56

the customer of Carillion. And it is

also important that we have

0:46:560:47:00

protected taxpayers from an

unacceptable bailout of a private

0:47:000:47:03

company.

Mr Speaker, when Carillion

went into liquidation, many

0:47:030:47:10

contractors were still unpaid. This

company, Carillion, were notorious

0:47:100:47:15

late payers, taking 120 days to pay,

placing a huge burden on small

0:47:150:47:23

companies. Four times longer than

the 30 days in the prompt payment

0:47:230:47:27

code that Carillion had indeed

themselves signed up to. So, why did

0:47:270:47:32

the Government allow a major

Government contractor to get away

0:47:320:47:36

with this? Will she commit to

label's policy that abiding by the

0:47:360:47:41

prompt payment code should be a

basic requirement for all future

0:47:410:47:45

Government contracts?

Of course, we

look at the behaviour of companies

0:47:450:47:54

that we contract with in relation to

payments. This question of prompt

0:47:540:47:58

payment has been one that has been

brought up in this House, I have to

0:47:580:48:02

say, for as long as I have been in

this House. And work is always being

0:48:020:48:07

done on it. But the right honourable

gentleman has raised an important

0:48:070:48:10

point about the impact of

Carillion's liquidation on small

0:48:100:48:14

companies. That's why this morning

the Business Secretary and the city

0:48:140:48:18

Minister held a Round Table with the

banks to discuss credit lines to

0:48:180:48:23

small and medium-sized enterprises,

and to make clear that SMEs are not

0:48:230:48:32

responsible for the collapse of

Carillion. The Business Secretary

0:48:320:48:34

has also held further round tables

today with representatives of small

0:48:340:48:36

businesses. Construction trade

associations, and trade unions,

0:48:360:48:38

workers unions, to make sure that we

are on top of the potential effects

0:48:380:48:42

on the wider supply train. It is

right that we look at those very

0:48:420:48:46

carefully and take this action. And

it is also right that we do put in

0:48:460:48:50

place through the DWP support for

any workers who do find themselves

0:48:500:48:54

no longer employed as a result of

this.

Jeremy Corbyn.

It's a bit late

0:48:540:49:00

for one subcontractor, floor attack

of £800,000 by Carillion have

0:49:000:49:04

already had to make some of their

staff redundant by the collapse. --

0:49:040:49:08

Florette Tech. This is not an

isolated case of Government

0:49:080:49:12

negligence and corporate failure. It

is a broken system. Under

0:49:120:49:22

is a broken system. Under this

Government, this Government, virgin

0:49:230:49:24

and Stagecoach, can spectacularly

mismanaged the east Coast Main line

0:49:240:49:30

and be let off a £2 billion payment.

Capita and a toss can continue to

0:49:300:49:37

wreck the lives through damaging

disability assessment of many people

0:49:370:49:42

with disabilities, and win more

Government funded contracts. G4S

0:49:420:49:47

promised to provide security at the

Olympics, and fail to so, do and the

0:49:470:49:51

army had to step in and save the

day. These corporations, Mr Speaker,

0:49:510:49:56

need to be shown the door. We need

our public services provided by

0:49:560:50:03

public employees with a public

service ethos, and a strong public

0:50:030:50:07

oversight. As the ruins of Carillion

lie around her, will the Prime

0:50:070:50:13

Minister act to end this costly

racket of the relationship between

0:50:130:50:18

Government and some of these

companies?

0:50:180:50:24

I might first to mind the right

honourable gentleman that a third of

0:50:240:50:27

the Carillion contracts with that

Government were led by the Labour

0:50:270:50:32

government. What we want is to

provide good quality public

0:50:320:50:40

services, delivered at best value to

the taxpayer. We're making sure in

0:50:400:50:45

this case that public services

continue to be provided, that the

0:50:450:50:48

workers in those public services are

supported and taxpayers are

0:50:480:50:52

protected. But what Labour oppose

isn't just a role for private

0:50:520:50:57

companies and public services but

the private sector as a whole. The

0:50:570:51:01

vast majority of people in this

country in employment are employed

0:51:010:51:05

by the private sector, but the

Shadow Chancellor calls businesses

0:51:050:51:10

are the real enemy. Labour won the

highest taxes in our peacetime

0:51:100:51:18

history, Labour policies would cause

a run on the pound. This is a Labour

0:51:180:51:23

Party that has turned its back on

investment, on growth, on jobs, a

0:51:230:51:29

Labour Party that will always but

politics before people.

0:51:290:51:41

Mr Speaker, can I thank the Prime

Minister for visiting Cheam on

0:51:450:51:51

Saturday, where she heard from local

residents about the poor services

0:51:510:51:55

provided by the complacent Lib Dem

council. People should not have to

0:51:550:51:59

settle for second best so would she

agree with me back to unlock Sutton

0:51:590:52:05

and London's potential on May the

3rd, by giving residents the

0:52:050:52:11

opportunity to get great services

and value for money by voting

0:52:110:52:14

Conservative?

I was very happy to

join my honourable friend on the

0:52:140:52:20

doorsteps in Cheam and hear from

people about the issues, about

0:52:200:52:24

Liberal Democrat services in Sutton

and Cheam, particularly around the

0:52:240:52:26

rubbish bins. I believe they are now

up to 6p per household. I think they

0:52:260:52:33

are trying to get to one Bendtner

every Liberal Democrat member of

0:52:330:52:36

Parliament. But he is absolutely

right, the evidence is that

0:52:360:52:43

Conservatives deliver better

services at less cost the council

0:52:430:52:45

taxpayer. And well we are talking

about customer council taxpayer,

0:52:450:52:51

only last week Labour's Ben Fryer

minister announced that Labour

0:52:510:52:55

policy was to put council tax up on

every average typical home by £320.

0:52:550:53:02

People should know that a vote for

Labour is a vote to pay more.

0:53:020:53:11

Labour is a vote to pay more.

Thank

you, Mr Speaker. Can the Prime

0:53:110:53:13

Minister tell the House what

official advice she has had on the

0:53:130:53:19

impact on the UK economy from

leaving the EU single market and

0:53:190:53:22

when she requested any such advice?

I have to say to be honourable

0:53:220:53:29

gentleman that of course as we go

through the Brexit negotiations, we

0:53:290:53:34

are constantly looking at the impact

that decisions that are taken will

0:53:340:53:38

have on our economy. What we want to

ensure is that we maintain good

0:53:380:53:43

access, a good conference of free

trade agreement with the EU, while

0:53:430:53:48

also, as leaving the EU, we will be

able to ensure that we get good free

0:53:480:53:52

trade agreements with other parts of

the world.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. 19

0:53:520:54:00

months after the EU referendum and

the Prime Minister has not a shred

0:54:000:54:05

of economic analysis on the impact

of leaving the single market. On

0:54:050:54:12

Monday, Scottish Government

published its second analysis paper,

0:54:120:54:15

revealing some horrifying facts.

Leaving the single market will cost

0:54:150:54:20

each Scottish citizen up to £2300 a

year. How many jobs have to be lost

0:54:200:54:27

and how much of a hit will families

take before this Prime Minister

0:54:270:54:34

recognises the folly of leaving the

single market?

He asks me for

0:54:340:54:41

economic analysis. I will give him

some economic analysis. We saw the

0:54:410:54:45

figures this morning for GDP growth

in Scotland. In the third quarter,

0:54:450:54:49

GDP in Scotland group by 0.2%. In

the rest of the UK it grew by 0.4%.

0:54:490:54:59

Over the last year, GDP in Scotland,

under an SNP government in Scotland,

0:54:590:55:05

grew by 0.6%. In the United Kingdom

as a whole, it grew by 1.7%. My

0:55:050:55:15

economic analysis, 1.7% is better

than 0.6 percentage you are better

0:55:150:55:21

off with a Conservative government

than an SNP won.

Will the Prime

0:55:210:55:27

Minister look at the case of my late

constituent and barnyard, who was

0:55:270:55:32

badly injured by a shoplifter. She

recently died, partly because of

0:55:320:55:38

these injuries at the young age of

70. -- Anne Banyard. Her claim has

0:55:380:55:44

been delayed and her family worries

that it will collapse completely.

0:55:440:55:49

Will she support me and the local

paper in supporting this case and

0:55:490:55:52

will to make clear that the rights

of victims should be a part of our

0:55:520:55:58

criminal policy?

My honourable

friend is right to put the case for

0:55:580:56:00

the rights of victims that he is

absolutely right that we should

0:56:000:56:03

always remember victims. I'm very

sorry to hear the case of his late

0:56:030:56:08

constituent Anne Banyard and I know

that the whole house will want to

0:56:080:56:11

join me in offering condolences to

her family in this tragic case. Of

0:56:110:56:16

course, as my honourable friend

knows, the criminal compensation

0:56:160:56:21

authority administers the scheme and

applies the rules dependably of

0:56:210:56:26

government but I'm sure the Justice

Secretary will be happy to meet with

0:56:260:56:29

my right honourable friend to

discuss this case.

At the

0:56:290:56:33

internationally embarrassing news of

the Tory council leader from my

0:56:330:56:40

neighbour in Maidenhead and Windsor

and his disregard for the homeless

0:56:400:56:42

around the royal wedding and the

recent put-downs to the Prime

0:56:420:56:46

Minister and our government by

President Trump, can the Prime

0:56:460:56:48

Minister confirm whether she

actually wants an invite to be

0:56:480:56:52

extended for the royal wedding and a

state visit to the very stable

0:56:520:56:56

genius from the US who, by the way,

seems to be copying all the

0:56:560:57:00

buzzwords from his not so strong and

stable -- from this not so strong

0:57:000:57:05

and stable government?

He knows that

we have a special during

0:57:050:57:10

relationship with the United States.

An invitation to President Trump for

0:57:100:57:13

a state visit has been extended. I

have to say to the honourable

0:57:130:57:18

gentleman, I'm not responsible for

invitations to the royal wedding to

0:57:180:57:21

take place but he did reference the

Royal Borough of Windsor and

0:57:210:57:24

Maidenhead council. I just think he

should be aware that the Royal

0:57:240:57:29

Borough has taken a number of

actions to support vulnerable

0:57:290:57:33

residents, including those who are

homeless. The establishment of an

0:57:330:57:37

emergency night shelter, open 365

days a year, a day service attached

0:57:370:57:43

to that, providing support services

to vulnerable residents, a

0:57:430:57:46

comprehensive seven day a week

service for the homeless or those at

0:57:460:57:50

risk of homelessness, and they

applied the severe weather emergency

0:57:500:57:55

protocol. They offered accommodation

to, I think, 32 homeless people on

0:57:550:58:01

the streets, of whom 21 took about

accommodation and 11 did not.

0:58:010:58:09

accommodation and 11 did not.

Thank

you, Mr Speaker. Cancer can strike

0:58:090:58:11

anyone no matter where they live in

the UK. The sunrise appeal in

0:58:110:58:15

Cornwall raised £300 million since

2000 to fund equipment and buildings

0:58:150:58:19

for cancer care. Brussels by the NHS

could see radiotherapy services

0:58:190:58:23

moved from Cornwall to Devon. This

would see many constituents having

0:58:230:58:27

to travel hundreds of miles to

access treatment many times a week.

0:58:270:58:31

These proposals are unacceptable to

my constituents and the vast

0:58:310:58:34

majority of people in Cornwall. Does

the Prime Minister agree with me

0:58:340:58:38

that travel time should be taken

into account when making these

0:58:380:58:41

decisions, and will she join me in

encouraging the people of Cornwall

0:58:410:58:44

to respond to the NHS consultation?

My honourable friend raises an

0:58:440:58:48

important point and we do want to be

sure that patients get the best

0:58:480:58:52

cancer services. We want to see them

getting access to treatment and

0:58:520:58:55

ensuring that they get that on a

timely fashion, of course. The

0:58:550:58:58

length of time it takes them to

travel to that treatment is an

0:58:580:59:02

important issue. That's why we are

establishing radiotherapy networks

0:59:020:59:05

that will review any access issues

and service provision on a regular

0:59:050:59:09

basis and address any shortcomings

in the area, and that is backed up

0:59:090:59:14

by £130 million on new and upgraded

radiotherapy machines. But he is

0:59:140:59:18

absolutely right that these

decisions should be taken primarily

0:59:180:59:21

at a local level and I would join

him in encouraging the people of

0:59:210:59:24

Cornwall to respond to the

consultation.

Mr Speaker, last week

0:59:240:59:30

my constituent Carol's son had a

mental health crisis. He was

0:59:300:59:35

admitted to the nearest available

psychiatric adult bed in West

0:59:350:59:39

Sussex, a 450 mile round trip from

his home and family in Manchester.

0:59:390:59:43

The lack of mental health beds is a

national crisis and scandal so when

0:59:430:59:48

will the Prime Minister turn her

warm words on mental health into

0:59:480:59:51

action to solve the crisis?

I can

say to the honourable gentleman,

0:59:510:59:56

obviously I am sorry to hear of the

experience of his constituent. We

0:59:560:59:59

are turning the words that we have

put on in terms of a priority for

0:59:591:00:05

mental health into action. Is them

over a slew? Yes, that is why we are

1:00:051:00:08

continuing to put an emphasis on

this. We do see more people being

1:00:081:00:12

able to access mental health

services everyday. We've increased

1:00:121:00:15

the number of people having access

to therapies, we've increased the

1:00:151:00:19

funding available for mental health.

There is more for us to do but we

1:00:191:00:23

are putting more money in and taking

more action on mental health than

1:00:231:00:25

any previous government.

1:00:251:00:31

any previous government.

Sir Desmond

Swayne.

1:00:311:00:32

CHEERING

Order! Order! The right honourable

1:00:321:00:40

gentleman is extremely alert! Order!

And I want to hear what he is going

1:00:401:00:47

to say.

A question keeps me awake at

night...

1:00:471:00:51

LAUGHTER

How will companies be encouraged to

1:00:511:00:59

follow her lead in the way that

Iceland has done?

I am very pleased

1:00:591:01:05

to say that we have seen Iceland

this week making a commitment to be

1:01:051:01:10

plastic free. We have seen other

companies making commitments to

1:01:101:01:13

ensure that any plastics they use

are recyclable in a number of years

1:01:131:01:18

and I'm very happy to join my

honourable friend in saying that we

1:01:181:01:22

will be encouraging companies to

follow Iceland's lead. We will also

1:01:221:01:26

be consulting on how the tax system

or the introduction of charges could

1:01:261:01:29

further reduce the amount of waste

we create and we are launching a new

1:01:291:01:33

plastics innovation fund, backed up

by additional funding that the

1:01:331:01:37

Government is investing in research

and develop and, to ensure that we

1:01:371:01:41

do really reduce the amount of

plastic that is used and leave this

1:01:411:01:47

land and environment in a better

state than we found it.

We can all

1:01:471:01:51

learn about brevity, myself

included, from the right honourable

1:01:511:01:54

gentleman. David Linden...

1:01:541:02:00

gentleman. David Linden...

A

constituent of buying has profound

1:02:001:02:03

mental health difficulties and was

put on Universal Credit in 2016 and

1:02:031:02:08

received a 276 day sanction. A judge

ruled that that sanction was wrong

1:02:081:02:13

and it has been overturned. Will the

Prime Minister agree to look into

1:02:131:02:16

that case but above all, will she

apologised to my constituent?

1:02:161:02:21

Obviously, I am sorry to hear the

case that the honourable gentleman

1:02:211:02:24

has set out. I am very happy to

ensure that that cases properly

1:02:241:02:26

looked into.

1:02:261:02:35

looked into.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Following transport for the North's

1:02:351:02:38

announcement on northern Powerhouse

rail, will the Prime Minister

1:02:381:02:41

confirm that given its commitment to

invest in northern transport

1:02:411:02:44

infrastructure and ensuring that the

northern Powerhouse materialises?

I

1:02:441:02:48

am happy to give a commitment to the

northern Powerhouse and given the

1:02:481:02:53

great cities across the North --

giving very great cities of the

1:02:531:03:00

North begins a search of a need to

create that Northern Powerhouse. We

1:03:001:03:03

are spending a record £13 billion to

transform transport across unaltered

1:03:031:03:08

top we have made transport for the

north of a need to create that

1:03:081:03:10

Northern Powerhouse. We are spending

a record £13 billion to transform

1:03:101:03:13

transport across unaltered top we

have made transport for the North

1:03:131:03:15

the first-ever subnational transport

authority. They have published their

1:03:151:03:17

strategic plan for consultation and

I would hope that all members with

1:03:171:03:19

an interest in this issue would

engage in that consultation and make

1:03:191:03:22

sure their views and their

constituents' views are heard.

His

1:03:221:03:29

Holiness Pope Francis has this week

condemned hostility to migrants in

1:03:291:03:32

communities across Europe. They must

open themselves without prejudice to

1:03:321:03:37

the rich diversity of immigrants. As

a committed Christian, would Prime

1:03:371:03:43

Minister agree with Francis that

hostility to migrants is a sin?

What

1:03:431:03:49

I say to her is that this country

has a fine record over not just

1:03:491:03:56

decades but centuries, of welcoming

refugees and ensuring that people

1:03:561:04:00

can come to this country and make

their home in this country, and that

1:04:001:04:03

is what we will continue to do.

1:04:031:04:11

is what we will continue to do.

John

Worboys is likely to be one of the

1:04:111:04:15

worst sex attack is our country has

ever known and when he was in court

1:04:151:04:20

he denied his guilt and was

continuing to deny it until 200

1:04:201:04:23

years ago. He dismissed his crimes

as banter and only last year was

1:04:231:04:26

deemed too dangerous to be put into

open release conditions. The short

1:04:261:04:30

sentence he has served is an insult

to his victims and shows a contempt

1:04:301:04:35

for Justice. Does the Prime Minister

agree with me that the decision must

1:04:351:04:39

now be judiciary the -- judicially

reviewed and that those cases should

1:04:391:04:46

be broader when tried in court?

I

thank him for raising this and this

1:04:461:04:51

is a case that is rightly raising

deep concern among the public but

1:04:511:04:55

also all members across this House.

As my honourable friend will know,

1:04:551:05:01

the Parole Board is rightly

independent of government and even

1:05:011:05:04

insensitive cases such as this, we

must ensure that independence is

1:05:041:05:08

maintained and we don't prejudice

decisions. But although they have

1:05:081:05:12

decided to approve his release with

stringent licensing decisions --

1:05:121:05:17

conditions, the Justice Secretary

has made clear she is taking legal

1:05:171:05:20

advice on the possibility of a

judicially -- judicially review on

1:05:201:05:25

Mr Dock it is right that we would

conduct a review to look at options

1:05:251:05:29

for change and this... Public

protection is our priority and I

1:05:291:05:35

think often people are concerned

when they see decisions of the

1:05:351:05:38

Parole Board being taken and they

are not aware of the decisions

1:05:381:05:42

behind that. There may be limits to

what can be done but I figured it's

1:05:421:05:45

right that we look into this case

and question the issue of

1:05:451:05:49

transparency.

Many thanks. By

constituent informed me that she had

1:05:491:05:53

been raped and beaten by her

ex-partner, requiring an injunction.

1:05:531:05:59

Much to her horror, the bank would

not close a joint account unless she

1:05:591:06:03

attended with the perpetrator. When

banks were left to their discretion,

1:06:031:06:09

women's lies are being put at risk.

Will the Prime Minister ensure

1:06:091:06:15

policy to protect survivors is

included in a pending domestic

1:06:151:06:18

violence spills?

1:06:181:06:22

The honourable lady clearly raises a

very distressing case. We want to

1:06:221:06:26

ensure that we give problems of bot

to all of those -- we give proper

1:06:261:06:30

support to those who have been

subjected to be abuse of the kind

1:06:301:06:34

that the honourable lady has been

referred to. The Home Secretary will

1:06:341:06:39

be issuing consultation on the

proposed legislation which is an

1:06:391:06:43

opportunity for issues such as this

to be raised.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

1:06:431:06:48

A brutal attack occurred in my

constituency over the weekend, a

1:06:481:06:52

young woman tragically died. Will

the Prime Minister ex then to her

1:06:521:06:59

sympathies to the family and pay

tributes to the hard work of the

1:06:591:07:03

emergency services who attended the

scene?

Can I say to my honourable

1:07:031:07:07

friend Comey he told me about this

very distressing case last night,

1:07:071:07:11

and this is a horrific case. And I

do extend my sympathies, and I'm

1:07:111:07:15

sure the whole House extends their

sympathies and condolences to her

1:07:151:07:18

family and friends at this tragic

death that has occurred. I will also

1:07:181:07:24

congratulate the emergency services

on the action that they have taken.

1:07:241:07:29

But also, I think, from the

description my honourable friend

1:07:291:07:32

gave to me last night, I think we

should have some thought and care to

1:07:321:07:38

all of those who were witnesses to

this particular incident, through

1:07:381:07:41

their fault of their own other than

happening to be at a particular

1:07:411:07:46

premises at liberty to The Times or

through no fault of their own.

The

1:07:461:07:51

Prime Minister will be aware that

Northern Ireland has not have the

1:07:511:07:54

government now for over a year.

Decisions need to be taken to

1:07:541:07:58

protect our health service,

education and local communities.

1:07:581:08:01

Does the Prime Minister agree that

in the absence of a Government being

1:08:011:08:06

formed, it is imperative that her

Government takes the decision to

1:08:061:08:09

appoint direct rule ministers as

soon as possible so that a budget

1:08:091:08:14

can be put forward to deal with this

urgent problem?

We are committed to

1:08:141:08:22

re-establishing fully functioning,

inclusive devolved administration

1:08:221:08:24

that works for everyone in Northern

Ireland. I don't underestimate the

1:08:241:08:28

challenges that remain involved

here, but we still believe that a

1:08:281:08:31

way forward can be found under the

agreement can be reached. I would

1:08:311:08:34

say it is imperative that the

parties re-engage in intensive

1:08:341:08:38

discussions aimed at resolving the

outstanding issues so that the

1:08:381:08:42

assembly can meet and an executive

can be formed. We do recognise,

1:08:421:08:47

however, that we have a

responsibility to ensure political

1:08:471:08:50

stability and good governance in

Northern Ireland. As I say, our

1:08:501:08:55

priority was on ensuring that we can

work with bodies to re-establish the

1:08:551:08:59

devolved government in Northern

Ireland. But we recognise the need

1:08:591:09:02

to ensure that Northern Ireland can

continue to operate and that public

1:09:021:09:06

services can continue to be

provided.

I thank her for her

1:09:061:09:14

earlier response to my colleague

from North Cornwall. NHS England are

1:09:141:09:21

investing £130 million in the

radiotherapy treatment for air and

1:09:211:09:23

less common cancers. Can she confirm

and reassure my constituents that

1:09:231:09:28

there is no need for existing good

radiotherapy services in Somerset to

1:09:281:09:33

be moved in order to deliver this

cancer treatment for our cancers?

1:09:331:09:37

Well, as I said in relation to the

earlier question from my honourable

1:09:371:09:42

friend -- for rare cancers. We

recognise the importance of ensuring

1:09:421:09:46

that people have access to these

treatments, and we do recognise the

1:09:461:09:50

issues that people sometimes face in

relation to travelling to the

1:09:501:09:54

centres where these services are

available. This is primarily a

1:09:541:09:58

decision to be taken at local level.

As I did earlier, I would encourage

1:09:581:10:02

people to take part in the

consultation, to respond to the

1:10:021:10:06

consultation, so that local views

can truly be heard and taken into

1:10:061:10:09

account.

My constituent, Chris

Robinson, has the weight 52 weeks

1:10:091:10:15

for her pain relief treatment,

instead of the 18 weeks that a

1:10:151:10:20

properly funded NHS would deliver.

How much longer will it take for the

1:10:201:10:25

Prime Minister to sort things out?

Can I say to the honourable

1:10:251:10:31

gentleman, that we are putting more

money, as he knows, into the

1:10:311:10:35

National Health Service, in the

autumn budget the Chancellor of the

1:10:351:10:39

Exchequer but a further £2.8 billion

into the National Health Service.

1:10:391:10:43

But if we are looking at the issues

of treatment across the National

1:10:431:10:47

Health Service, we have to be very

clear that while Labour's answer is

1:10:471:10:52

always does, more money, this is

about ensuring that all hospitals

1:10:521:10:55

across the NHS are operating and

acting in accordance with best

1:10:551:11:01

practice. We have world-class

hospitals in our NHS, we want to

1:11:011:11:05

ensure they are all world-class.

I

understand London has been mentioned

1:11:051:11:12

as a potential host to the Bayeux

Tapestry. Given that visitors to

1:11:121:11:16

London wish to see two site chucking

at each other or already very well

1:11:161:11:22

catered for by the gallery in this

chamber, can I ask the Prime

1:11:221:11:26

Minister to put in a good word for

Battle Abbey in East Sussex, where

1:11:261:11:29

viewers cannot just see the tapestry

-- can not just see the tapestry but

1:11:291:11:36

can also see the views of the Sussex

countryside.

I think it is very

1:11:361:11:42

significant that the Bayeux Tapestry

is going to be coming to the United

1:11:421:11:45

Kingdom and that people are going to

be able to see this. I hear the bid

1:11:451:11:49

that he has put in. I have to say to

him that from a set of true position

1:11:491:11:54

on the front bench my right

honourable friend the Home Secretary

1:11:541:11:56

and member for Hastings also put in

a bid for this particular issue and

1:11:561:12:00

I'm sure we will be looking at very

carefully to ensure that the maximum

1:12:001:12:04

number of people can take benefit

from seeing this tapestry.

Thank

1:12:041:12:11

you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister

pledged to consign slavery to the

1:12:111:12:13

history books. On... The National

Audit Office said that the Home

1:12:131:12:16

Office has not set out how a

reduction will be measured. The Home

1:12:161:12:20

Office does not set clear

anti-slavery activity, the Home

1:12:201:12:23

Office does not knowing what

activity will be going on across

1:12:231:12:26

Government and does not monitor

business compliance with the Modern

1:12:261:12:30

Slavery Act. Is the Prime Minister

satisfied with that analysis of her

1:12:301:12:34

flagship policy, and what action

will be Government by taking?

It is

1:12:341:12:37

this government that introduced the

Modern Slavery Act. It is this

1:12:371:12:41

Government that... It is this

Government that has improved the

1:12:411:12:49

response to victims, the response

from police in catching

1:12:491:12:52

perpetrators. We see more cases

being brought the prosecution than

1:12:521:12:56

we have done before, we see more

victim is willing and able to come

1:12:561:13:00

forward and having the confidence to

come forward. Have we dealt with the

1:13:001:13:04

problem? Of course there are still

problems out there. But we want to

1:13:041:13:08

ensure, as my right honourable

friend the International Development

1:13:081:13:12

Secretary said earlier in

international element questions, not

1:13:121:13:15

just that we take action here in the

United Kingdom, that we work with

1:13:151:13:18

countries where

1:13:181:13:27

countries where the women are doing.

Members across this House have sung

1:13:271:13:32

for Syrians. Last week in Idlib, a

clinic and a kindergarten that we

1:13:321:13:37

support were bombed by Syrian

government destroyers. Will the

1:13:371:13:43

Prime Minister join me in paying

tribute to the bravery of the staff

1:13:431:13:49

at the hands up foundation, who

continued to work there, and also in

1:13:491:13:54

reassuring ordinary Syrians that in

the seventh year of this terrible

1:13:541:13:58

war that we haven't forgotten them

by.

Well, can I say to my honourable

1:13:581:14:03

friend, she has been a great

champion for charities working in

1:14:031:14:07

Syria, and particularly for the

singing for Syrians. And I am very

1:14:071:14:12

happy to join her in praising the

bravery of all of those working for

1:14:121:14:15

the hands up foundation. And also

others working for other charities

1:14:151:14:19

in the region, doing valuable and

important work. We continue to make

1:14:191:14:23

every effort to achieve our goals in

Syria. That is of course defeating

1:14:231:14:28

the scourge of Daesh. But also

ensuring that we achieve a political

1:14:281:14:32

settlement that end the suffering

and provides the ability for all

1:14:321:14:35

Syrians and the wider region. And we

continue to provide significant

1:14:351:14:42

humanitarian assistance, £2.46

billion to date.

Can the Prime

1:14:421:14:45

Minister tell me why the failed

Wakefield Academy was allowed to

1:14:451:14:51

take over schools in Bradford, even

though there were concerns as far

1:14:511:14:55

back as 2015 around them? Can she

give me assurances here today that

1:14:551:15:02

the hundreds of thousands of pounds

taken from schools in my

1:15:021:15:06

constituency, one of the poorest in

the country, will be returned

1:15:061:15:09

immediately.

We of course have a

priority to ensure that children

1:15:091:15:15

across the country receive a great

education, whether they are in the

1:15:151:15:19

north or the South. Of course, seven

of our 12 opportunity areas in

1:15:191:15:23

providing that support or in the

North and Midlands, the front line

1:15:231:15:27

of our approach, tackling inequality

in education outcomes. We are taking

1:15:271:15:31

forward, he is concerned about

northerners Gauls, we are taking

1:15:311:15:35

forward recommendations for the

Northern Powerhouse schools

1:15:351:15:37

strategy. We are putting record

levels of funding into our schools,

1:15:371:15:42

and have announced increased funding

for our schools over the next two

1:15:421:15:44

years.

I'm local charities will be

holding a meeting to discuss how we

1:15:441:15:51

can fight the problem of loneliness

in our community. At a national

1:15:511:15:56

level, what is the Prime Minister

doing to implement the important

1:15:561:16:00

recommendations of the Jo Cox

commission on loneliness?

My

1:16:001:16:03

honourable friend has raised a very

important issue, he is exactly

1:16:031:16:07

right, but too many people,

loneliness is the exact reality of

1:16:071:16:10

their modern wife. We know it has an

impact on mental and physical

1:16:101:16:14

health. -- of their modern life.

Later today, I will be hosting a

1:16:141:16:19

reception for the Jo Cox foundation

looking at this issue of loneliness

1:16:191:16:23

in number ten Downing St. I think

the work that Jo Cox started that

1:16:231:16:27

has been continued by my honourable

friend is a member for South Ribble,

1:16:271:16:33

and the honourable lady for Leeds

West. It is very important, very

1:16:331:16:41

important work. And I'm pleased to

say that the Government has

1:16:411:16:45

appointed a Minister for loneliness.

I think this is an importance that

1:16:451:16:50

forward, of course there is more to

do, but it shows that we recognise

1:16:501:16:53

the importance of this issue, and I

pay tribute to all of those in this

1:16:531:16:57

House who have championed this

issue.

You Universal Credit was

1:16:571:17:00

meant to remove benefit traps. The

Department for education wants to

1:17:001:17:08

base eligibility for free school

meals on income threshold, if a

1:17:081:17:12

family gets a small pay rise, they

immediately lose the benefit of the

1:17:121:17:16

school meals and end up worse off.

It is a far worse benefit trap than

1:17:161:17:21

anything in the old benefit system.

Surely one department should not be

1:17:211:17:26

torpedoing the aim of getting rid of

benefit traps. The Goverment's aims

1:17:261:17:29

in this way.

The right honourable

gentleman knows that we believe that

1:17:291:17:35

Universal Credit is a better system.

It is a more simple system than the

1:17:351:17:39

benefits it replaced and it

encourages work -- people to get

1:17:391:17:45

into the workplace. But once

Universal Credit is fully rolled

1:17:451:17:49

out, we will see 50,000 more

children eligible for free school

1:17:491:17:52

meals than under the old system.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I welcome

1:17:521:17:58

the great speech that the Prime

Minister gave last Thursday on the

1:17:581:18:03

environment? It is right that the

Prime Minister and indeed this party

1:18:031:18:09

supports companies that promote

sustainable growth, but does the

1:18:091:18:12

Prime Minister also agree with me

that any commercial development must

1:18:121:18:17

take now into account the needs of

the environment?

Can I say to my

1:18:171:18:23

honourable friend, I thank him for

the comments he made about the

1:18:231:18:26

speech. But what it was about was

the 25 year environment plan that

1:18:261:18:30

the guv -- the Government has

published. It is important to leave

1:18:301:18:38

the environment in a better state

than when we came into it. I also

1:18:381:18:41

agree with him that all too often

people see economic growth or

1:18:411:18:46

protection of the environment as

opposites, they are not. And it is

1:18:461:18:50

absolutely possible for us to ensure

that we are protecting our

1:18:501:18:53

environment whilst producing that

economic growth, not least because

1:18:531:18:57

of the innovative technologies that

we could be developing to ensure

1:18:571:18:59

that we are protecting our

environment.

The people of Wales

1:18:591:19:06

have been taking back control since

1999. But the EU withdrawal bill

1:19:061:19:11

will put our powers back under lock

and key in Westminster. My

1:19:111:19:15

colleague, Stefan Langer is a, is

today proposing a Welsh continuity

1:19:151:19:19

built to ensure that our powers are

at liberty. When this Plaid Cymru

1:19:191:19:24

bill wins image team our Assembly,

will the Prime Minister support it

1:19:241:19:32

and respect Wales' serenity.

Her

portrayal of what is happening in

1:19:321:19:37

the EU withdrawal bill is simply

wrong. We are working with the

1:19:371:19:43

devolved administrations to ensure

that we deal with the issues that

1:19:431:19:46

have been raised around clause 11

and a question of powers that need

1:19:461:19:51

to remain at UK level to ensure our

internal market, but powers will be

1:19:511:19:56

devolved and extra powers will be

devolved to the devolved

1:19:561:19:59

ministrations. We continue to work

with the devolved administrations on

1:19:591:20:03

this, and we will be bringing

forward a two clause amendment in

1:20:031:20:07

the House of Lords, but we want to

win sure that that meets the needs

1:20:071:20:11

of the UK and the devolved

ministrations.

Order.

1:20:111:20:14

Well, we were right. Mr Corbyn did

go on Carillion, the bankrupt, now

1:20:191:20:26

being liquidated, construction

company and he wanted to know from

1:20:261:20:29

the Prime Minister why when it was

clear that the company was in

1:20:291:20:32

serious trouble the Government

continued to dole out contracts to

1:20:321:20:36

it. There were times when you may

have thought he'd been watching the

1:20:361:20:39

first half hour of the Daily

Politics, such was his line of

1:20:391:20:43

questioning, or at least some of his

staff may well have been. I'm not

1:20:431:20:46

quite sure how much further we got

on with this but it finished up,

1:20:461:20:54

really, with Mr Corbyn attacking

almost the very concept of

1:20:541:20:57

outsourcing to the private sector,

private services and perhaps even

1:20:571:21:04

construction contracts. That was

quite clear. And Mrs May giving the

1:21:041:21:10

defence of the private sector in the

provision of public services, and

1:21:101:21:16

ideological divide if you like.

Let's discuss this with the Cabinet

1:21:161:21:19

office minister Oliver Dowden, Chi

Onwurah, and John Pienaar. Not sure

1:21:191:21:27

we learned anything new from that

exchange.

No and Jeremy Corbyn was

1:21:271:21:31

spoiled for choice for attack lines,

a number of which I think had a fair

1:21:311:21:37

chance of striking a chord with the

public looking in - the awarding of

1:21:371:21:42

quite large pay and severance

bonuses and deals to past executives

1:21:421:21:45

who were there just a few months ago

while this company was going down. A

1:21:451:21:49

lot of people will have sympathy

with that line of attack. The

1:21:491:21:53

question posed by Jeremy Corbyn,

which you were discussing earlier,

1:21:531:21:57

why were contracts being handed over

to this company when it was in such,

1:21:571:22:01

such trouble. We had from Theresa

May most of the time a fairly

1:22:011:22:06

defensive dead bat to this. She did

and so that latter question quite

1:22:061:22:09

bluntly, made more bluntly than

Oliver felt able to early on the

1:22:091:22:13

show, when he said, if we had not

handed these contracts over because

1:22:131:22:18

there had been profit warnings, the

company would have gone down the

1:22:181:22:21

plug that much sooner and those jobs

would have gone. Which still left

1:22:211:22:24

other questions unanswered. If that

is the complete answer, next time

1:22:241:22:28

will there be another company

teetering on the brink which is

1:22:281:22:30

still given contracts in this way,

and the failure barely addressed?

1:22:301:22:36

Surely the answer is going to have

to be no and the answer will have to

1:22:361:22:39

come at a review is taken now but

they ended up with basic ideology,

1:22:391:22:42

which is where it starts.

Oliver

Dowden, the Prime Minister said they

1:22:421:22:47

couldn't pull out of contract

because that would have made certain

1:22:471:22:49

that the company would fail. But the

issue is not pulling out of

1:22:491:22:53

contract, the issue was continuing

to grant new contracts to the

1:22:531:22:58

company even though it was clearly

in trouble. That's a different

1:22:581:23:00

matter.

Yes, and in respect of that,

as we discussed earlier, we

1:23:001:23:06

structure them in such a way that

they were joint ventures, we were

1:23:061:23:10

stringent on the joint ventures.

What you've seen subsequently is

1:23:101:23:12

that the other parties are stepped

up there has been no interruption to

1:23:121:23:16

public service delivery. John makes

an important point about jobs. In

1:23:161:23:21

relation to jobs, anyone working in

the public sector, 40 %, their jobs

1:23:211:23:25

are secure because the Government is

going to pay out on this contract

1:23:251:23:28

and we know this morning from the

official receiver that in relation

1:23:281:23:32

to the private sector service

contracts, most of those will

1:23:321:23:36

continue, so people can be secure in

that section.

But they won't be

1:23:361:23:40

paid?

They will continue to be paid

because those contracts are going to

1:23:401:23:44

continue to be honoured because they

will continue to be delivered on.

If

1:23:441:23:48

you are an SME, a small contractor

that Carillion gets the big contract

1:23:481:23:52

then hands out hundreds, if not

thousands, of smaller contracts and,

1:23:521:23:58

for the last 120 days, you've been

working away and you put your bill

1:23:581:24:01

in as a small contractor, the

company is now in liquidation. That

1:24:011:24:07

private company won't get paid.

In

respect will it? Carillion Bosworth

1:24:071:24:18

company has two parts, 4010 public

sector and 6010 private sector. In

1:24:181:24:21

relation to the 40 percentage the

public sector, through the official

1:24:211:24:24

receiver those contracts will be

honoured all the way through the

1:24:241:24:27

supply chain service people will be

fine. In relation to the contract

1:24:271:24:31

the private sector, almost all of

the service contracts will continue

1:24:311:24:34

to be honoured because, for example,

if you have a cleaning contract, the

1:24:341:24:39

officer still needs to be cleaned so

those will be delivered upon.

1:24:391:24:42

Clearly, in relation to the

remaining part, which is in the

1:24:421:24:45

private sector, that will be treated

as in any other private sector

1:24:451:24:48

liquidation. The official receiver

will seek to recover as much as he

1:24:481:24:53

possibly can and they will be

creditors to that company so the

1:24:531:24:56

amount that they get paid depends on

a liquidation process.

So far the

1:24:561:25:01

latest guesstimate was that they

will get a penny in the pound.

It is

1:25:011:25:06

impossible to speculate that was the

official receiver. The company has

1:25:061:25:12

almost nothing on its balance sheet

so there are no assets to dig into.

1:25:121:25:17

At a £29 million of cash in the bank

and that's about it. I take your

1:25:171:25:22

point that if you are a cleaning

company to which the cleaning has

1:25:221:25:26

been subcontracted, you will

probably be able to continue to do

1:25:261:25:29

that.

Exactly where the money will

come from I am not sure. But if I

1:25:291:25:33

have just submitted a bill for the

past 120 days and have not yet been

1:25:331:25:37

paid, I won't get paid.

In respect

of the cleaning company, those

1:25:371:25:43

people will beat you bid over. That

means you continue on the same deal.

1:25:431:25:48

-- those people will be TUPEd over.

As and those people who are

1:25:481:25:56

essentially creditors, this is

purely private sector, they will not

1:25:561:26:00

be paid yet. In any liquidation the

process is that the official

1:26:001:26:04

receiver seeks to recover as much as

possible and then they will get paid

1:26:041:26:07

but that is absolutely no different

to any other situation with a

1:26:071:26:11

private company.

Mr Corbyn at the

end had quite a generalised attack

1:26:111:26:17

on the whole concept of outsourcing

certain services to the public

1:26:171:26:22

sector. Is it Labour's position that

all of that.?

I worked in the

1:26:221:26:30

private sector for 20 years before

coming to Parliament. You do not

1:26:301:26:34

outsource what is your core

competence in the private sector. At

1:26:341:26:37

the core competence which the Prime

Minister doesn't seem to recognise,

1:26:371:26:44

and Oliver, is to deliver public

services. So what we are saying is

1:26:441:26:48

that the public sector, and Jerry

said that quite clearly, and we've

1:26:481:26:51

seem with virgin, G4S, the public

sector should be delivering public

1:26:511:26:59

services...

So when it comes to the

private provision of public

1:26:591:27:04

services, for example rubbish

collection, which is now largely in

1:27:041:27:07

private hands, is it Labour's

position to and that?

It is Labour's

1:27:071:27:13

position that where public

services... Where possible, and we

1:27:131:27:16

can't do everything at once, and we

will need to look at the cost of

1:27:161:27:21

locations, but where possible public

services should be delivered by the

1:27:211:27:23

public sector and I think that's

quite clear.

Including hospital

1:27:231:27:26

laundry?

We need to build the

capacity and we need to recognise

1:27:261:27:33

that the private sector can add

capacity and resilience but in

1:27:331:27:40

public services, people expect that

their government should deliver...

I

1:27:401:27:44

get the principle, and trying to

work out where it leads.

You are

1:27:441:27:50

making the private sector the public

sector and that's why you are

1:27:501:27:54

saying...

The reason you have this

contracting out, which many

1:27:541:27:59

companies do... The reason they do

it and the reason Government does,

1:27:591:28:03

in relation to cleaning you have

companies that have expertise. The

1:28:031:28:07

effect of that as you save money for

the taxpayer, so you have more money

1:28:071:28:11

to pay for schools and hospitals.

We

have to leave it there. Our viewers

1:28:111:28:16

need to know who won the Guess The

Year Competition. The Only Way They

1:28:161:28:20

Can Do That Is If You Press That Red

Button.

1:28:201:28:30

It was 1957, which is why we had all

that old black-and-white footage.

1:28:301:28:34

And the winner is... So, there we

are.

1:28:341:28:42

Now, we're launching

an exciting new podcast today.

1:28:421:28:44

In case you miss PMQs and want

to catch up on the highlights,

1:28:441:28:47

we'll be releasing our very own PMQs

catch-up every Wednesday.

1:28:471:28:50

You can subscribe to it

on any number of podcast

1:28:501:28:52

apps and on your phone.

1:28:521:28:56

I'm told you can use that for calls

as well! Bye-bye.

1:28:561:29:03

Andrew Neil presents live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions. Andrew is joined by the Cabinet Office minister Oliver Dowden and shadow business minister Chi Onwurah to discuss the Carillion collapse and the makeup of Labour's National Executive Committee. The Guess the Year competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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