Browse content similar to 16/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:38 | |
As Jeremy Corbyn casts doubt
on whether the poisoning of a former | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
Russian double agent
and his daughter was carried out | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
by the Kremlin, are the Labour party
split once again on matters | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
of defence of the realm? | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
Is Brexit going really rather well? | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
After a tumultuous year
for Theresa May, does | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
the Prime Minister have reasons
to be cheerful about the state | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
of the Brexit negotiations? | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
During the general election,
the Conservatives promised | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
to abolish the cap on the number
of children from one religion | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
attending Faith schools. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
The idea was to allow more children
of faith to take up the places. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
It hasn't happened yet. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:12 | |
Will it? | 0:01:12 | 0:01:18 | |
And will the Kremlin be trembling at
the first big speech from Defence | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
Secretary Gavin Williamson? Judge
for yourself. Frankly, Russia should | 0:01:23 | 0:01:29 | |
go away and should shut up. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:35 | |
More on that speech later in the
programme. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:38 | |
All that in the next hour
and with us for the first half | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
of the programme today
Rachel Sylvester from the Times | 0:01:41 | 0:01:46 | |
and we hope, LBC's Iain Dale. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:47 | |
First today, the Labour party
are split on Jeremy Corbyn's | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
response to the Russia spy
poisoning in Salisbury. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
Yesterday the Labour
leader said "the evidence | 0:01:52 | 0:01:53 | |
points towards Russia" -
but in the Guardian newspaper today | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
he warns we should not "rush way
ahead of the evidence" and suggests | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
the poisoning could have been down
to "russian mafia-like groups". | 0:01:59 | 0:02:04 | |
He also questioned whether we should
trust international intelligence - | 0:02:04 | 0:02:11 | |
stating, in his words -
"flawed intelligence and dodgy | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
dossiers led to the calamity
of the Iraq invasion". | 0:02:13 | 0:02:19 | |
Mr Corbyn was a vocal critic
of the Iraq war and the intelligence | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
gathered at the time -
here he is speaking in 2003. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
Kia Starmer was asked about this on
question Time last night. Wishes | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
were after Russia earlier this week
based on investigations carried out | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
by security and intelligence
services, and no answers have been | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
given, no answers have been given,
and that led her to the conclusion | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
that there was no alternative
explanation other than that | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
responsibility lies with Russia. As
you will have seen, Germany, France | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
and the US have joined her in that
conclusion, and that is the right | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
conclusion will stop and for that
reason, I think it's very important | 0:02:57 | 0:03:02 | |
that we support the action the Prime
Minister laid out on Wednesday. Kia | 0:03:02 | 0:03:07 | |
Starmer, the shadow Brexit
secretary. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:08 | |
We're joined now by Nick
Thomas-Symonds who is | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
Labour's Shadow Security Minister. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:17 | |
Who do you think was responsible for
the nerve agent attack? I agree with | 0:03:17 | 0:03:22 | |
the assessment we have seen during
the week that the evidence | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
absolutely is pointing towards
Russia. It seems that there are two | 0:03:25 | 0:03:30 | |
possibilities within that - either
the Russian state deliberately | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
ordered it, or it is that it
happened negligently, where the | 0:03:33 | 0:03:38 | |
Russian state lost control in some
way of the nerve agent. Either way, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:43 | |
it is the Russian state, even if
they were negligent, as you say, in | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
terms of losing hold of that gas. It
is they who are responsible? It was | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
made clear in Jeremy Corbyn's
article published yesterday in the | 0:03:51 | 0:03:57 | |
Guardian, which sets out those two
possibilities. Of course, the second | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
possibility, losing control, Jeremy
Wright east, and I think you pointed | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
out, Jo, at the top of the programme
about the involvement of Russian | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
Mafia and organisations -- other
organisations, which is consistent | 0:04:10 | 0:04:15 | |
with the Prime Minister's with the
possibilities, and the evidence is | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
pointing to Russia. Why is Jeremy
Corbyn equivocating in his argument, | 0:04:18 | 0:04:25 | |
saying we need to hold back before
we do categorically state it is the | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
Russian state, despite the fact that
there is now a coordinated response | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
from France, Germany, from Nato,
America, who all say the pattern is | 0:04:33 | 0:04:39 | |
clear and there is no plausible
alternative to it being the Russian | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
state? First, in terms of the joint
statement, that is obviously very | 0:04:42 | 0:04:47 | |
welcome and we want to build the
widest possible international | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
coalition. The statement's language
is clear in terms of accepting the | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
highly likely position that the
Prime Minister set out in the House | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
of Commons on Monday. I don't accept
this characterisation of | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
equivocation. I was there in the
House of Commons on Monday to hear | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
Jeremy's statement, and he quoted
verbatim what the Prime Minister | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
said, and then said afterwards that
we have to have a decisive, | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
proportionate response based on the | 0:05:13 | 0:05:20 | |
evidence. To me, that is an entirely
common sense way to proceed. He | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
highlighted flawed intelligence and
dodgy dossiers led to the calamity | 0:05:32 | 0:05:34 | |
of the Iraqi invasion. Why is he
highlighting that at a time of | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
national security when there has
been an attack with a Cold War nerve | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
agent on British soil? First, we
condemn the events in Salisbury. We | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
back the work going on from security
services, counterterrorism and | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
others, and it is important to do
so. If I may say so, all that is | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
happening is, the Leader of the
Opposition is raising some | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
reasonable questions. We always have
to look at the lessons of the past, | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
and they are to be considered,
thoughtful in how we move forward, | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
absolutely, and that is what we
should be giving as the evidence | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
emerges. The evidence at the moment
supports the measures the Government | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
has already taken. Let's see how the
investigation proceeds and act | 0:06:08 | 0:06:13 | |
proportionately too. Nothing wrong
with a considered approach. Is it a | 0:06:13 | 0:06:17 | |
considered approach? Labour has said
it supports the sanctions and the | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
expulsions. If you support the
expulsions and the sanctions, the | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
punishment, and yet, you are not
completely clear as to who that is | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
going to be directed at, or you
don't completely trust the evidence | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
from the security services, why are
you supporting the sanctions and | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
expulsions? There is no suggestion
we do not support the position of | 0:06:37 | 0:06:45 | |
the security services. You are
bringing up the Iraq war in saying | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
these things cannot be trusted
because it led to a calamity in | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
foreign policy 15 years ago. He is
making the point, Jeremy Corbyn, | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
that that might have happened in
this case. There is a distinction | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
between the evidence from the
security services, and we support | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
them in doing that and they do an
excellent job, and help politicians | 0:07:03 | 0:07:09 | |
seek to interpret and act upon them.
There is nothing wrong with being | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
reasonable and consider. Of course,
we need to respond as the evidence | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
emerges. It is a reasonable thing to
do. Is there consistency in what | 0:07:17 | 0:07:26 | |
Jeremy Corbyn wrote in the article
and what he said in the House in | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
terms of shoving supporters Theresa
May? There is. He is trying to say | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
that we can't be sure the Russian
state is to blame. As you point out, | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
he is also saying that we back
Theresa May in expelling the | 0:07:37 | 0:07:42 | |
diplomats. The only way that we can
do that is if you support the idea | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
that the Russian state is to blame.
It leaves the questions of whose | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
side is he on, and there is a
history of association between the | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
hard left and Russia, the Communist
Party. And I think these moments of | 0:07:54 | 0:08:01 | |
big national security crises are
tests of leadership, and at the | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
moment, Jeremy Corbyn is failing
that. A lot of his Labour MPs agree | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
that he is failing that. What do you
say to MPs who have questioned it? | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
We have had a number on this
programme this week. There are MPs | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
who feel he is not giving his full
support by some of the comments he | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
has made, and that actually, people
like Keir Starmer, Emily Thornbury, | 0:08:20 | 0:08:26 | |
near gritters, on the front bench,
have been much more explicit. Is | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
there a divide now emerging in
labour? I don't accept that | 0:08:29 | 0:08:35 | |
characterisation. Of course,
politicians can use different | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
language, but there is absolute
unity around the evidence pointing | 0:08:37 | 0:08:44 | |
towards Russia. Secondly, let's
build the widest possible | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
international coalition to deal with
this. Absolutely. Third, let's act | 0:08:47 | 0:08:52 | |
proportionately on the evidence -
three entirely reasonable decisions. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:57 | |
Did Jeremy Corbyn welcomed the US
President's support for Theresa | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
May's position? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
May's position? Is absolutely. It
accepts the position of the | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
Government. They do say there is no
plausible alternative, serve in | 0:09:11 | 0:09:15 | |
other words, it must be the Russian
state. Sorry to cut across, but | 0:09:15 | 0:09:21 | |
certainly how the Russians have
responded is one of the things we | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
absolutely have to take into
account. That is one of the reasons | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
why it is proportionate at this
stage to be backing the steps the | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
Government has taken. One of the
things Jeremy Corbyn raised earlier | 0:09:30 | 0:09:35 | |
in the week was money, and Russian
money and the fact that London and | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
the south-east is being used as a
bit of a playground for the Russian | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
navy. He was right to question that
even then, wasn't he, in the | 0:09:42 | 0:09:48 | |
immediate aftermath of the poisoning
of Sergei Skripal and his daughter? | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
There is an issue of dodgy money
coming into London and laundering | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
going on, particularly through the
property market. It is right for | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
that to be clamped down on. The
Government has said it will do that | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
with amendments. Actually, that is
one thing that would hurt Vladimir | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
Putin and his associates as much as
anything else. Nick, thank you very | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
much. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
Now, nearly 48 hours
after Theresa May announced | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
retaliation against Russia -
by expelling 23 diplomats | 0:10:15 | 0:10:17 | |
among other measures,
so far we've had no official | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
reprisals from Putin,
but speaking yesterday the Russian | 0:10:19 | 0:10:21 | |
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov
promised a swift response. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:29 | |
TRANSLATION: As we already
did some days ago, | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
we asked them to provide us | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
with proof. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:35 | |
They replied, proof is not needed. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:36 | |
We asked them to send an official
request, as required by the | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
procedures of the Chemical
Weapons Convention. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:40 | |
They told us, you know
the official request is included | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
within Theresa May's
speech in Parliament. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:44 | |
So, you understand the level
of seriousness when | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
communicating such things,
but the response will come very | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
soon, I can assure you. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:56 | |
That was Sergei lav wrath. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
Oksana Antonenko is an expert
on Russian foreign policy | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
from the Institute of Global Affairs
- and she's with us now. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:09 | |
Russia has threatened a response,
and yet we have is not had one - | 0:11:12 | 0:11:19 | |
why? It is convenient to have that
crisis playing out a day before | 0:11:19 | 0:11:24 | |
elections, so we are likely to have
a response right after the election, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:28 | |
probably Monday or Tuesday. Really?
You don't think it will come before | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
them? It sounds from a timing point
of view from Sergei Lavrov and | 0:11:31 | 0:11:36 | |
others that it would come
immediately. At the moment, I think | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
if they wanted to respond
immediately, they would have | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
responded yesterday. Clearly, I
think there if one looks at Russian | 0:11:42 | 0:11:50 | |
politics today the key thing for the
elections is to have a turn up, and | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
that will not increase if the more
liberal, middle-class Russians | 0:11:53 | 0:11:58 | |
really feel that we are entering a
period of new isolation and a new | 0:11:58 | 0:12:03 | |
crisis with the West, so I think
they want to downplay that for the | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
time being. I think the response
will follow next week. Do you think | 0:12:06 | 0:12:12 | |
there are voices, then, around
Putin, trying to moderate him and | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
what he does in terms of a response
to Britain? It is very difficult to | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
say who are the voices around Putin
now, because the Kremlin walls are | 0:12:19 | 0:12:25 | |
high, and today it is very difficult
to really understand how the | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
decision-making is being made, but
we really know that there are voices | 0:12:28 | 0:12:33 | |
in Russian society, opinion polls
showing that in the last year alone, | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
is a number of Russians will -- the
number of Russian supporting | 0:12:37 | 0:12:43 | |
improvement in relations with the
West has increased. There is more | 0:12:43 | 0:12:47 | |
demanding to normalise relations,
especially from young people. Any | 0:12:47 | 0:12:58 | |
modernisation and technological
development needs relations with the | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
most developed in democratic
countries of the world. These are | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
the people Putin needs to mobilise
to get out to 70% of turnout. What | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
do you make of that claim that we
won't see any retaliation until | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
after the election? It is entirely
possible. We might hear it in the | 0:13:13 | 0:13:17 | |
next five minutes as well, you can
tell? The key thing is the scale of | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
the response. If the Russians, say,
expel five or ten British diplomat | 0:13:21 | 0:13:28 | |
is... I had been told they are going
to be expelling British diplomats. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:33 | |
They have not said a number but the
news is breaking that they will | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
expel British diplomats. We knew
that would happen. If it is five or | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
ten, that is different to 30 or 40.
Some of the language from Sergei | 0:13:41 | 0:13:46 | |
Lavrov has been interesting, where
he is saying that Gavin Williamson | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
is a young boy, insignificant,
swatting him away. It could be | 0:13:49 | 0:13:57 | |
swatting him away. It could be that
it is not that serious, but as I | 0:13:59 | 0:14:00 | |
understand it, Theresa May has a
second round of sanctions to | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
announce immediately after the
tit-for-tat now. I think that will | 0:14:03 | 0:14:05 | |
depend on how serious the
tit-for-tat is. There has been | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
criticism of Theresa May, saying she
could have gone further with her | 0:14:08 | 0:14:13 | |
initial round of sanctions and
expulsions, and tougher on Russian | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
money in London - do you agree? I
don't at the moment see what being | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
tough on Russian money in London
would do to actually put pressure on | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
President Putin himself. He has been
working very hard to repatriate all | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
the Russian money, and in fact, most
of his inner circle people already | 0:14:29 | 0:14:37 | |
have their money back. The type of
oligarchs we are talking about, most | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
of them either had been escaping
from Russia or they have a secondary | 0:14:41 | 0:14:48 | |
association. If their money is
targeted, for Putin, it will be just | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
a victory because it will make him
feel that he can have more | 0:14:52 | 0:14:57 | |
influence, and the money is coming
back. Tit-for-tat will just escalate | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
tensions - is that really what
Britain wants to achieve? I think it | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
has got to show that it is strong,
you cannot let yourself be pushed | 0:15:04 | 0:15:08 | |
around by a bully and this is the
end of a long path which has | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
included interference in, you know,
the American presidential elections, | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
the "Brexit" referendum, there has
been a low-level, under the wire | 0:15:15 | 0:15:21 | |
interference in western democracy
and I think that we have got to say | 0:15:21 | 0:15:24 | |
enough is enough. All right, thank
you very much, and we have to say | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
enough is enough on this discussion,
thank you for joining us. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
Now, is Brexit going
really rather well? | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
Theresa May's Mansion House speech
calling for compromise | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
between the EU and UK was viewed
broadly as a success at home | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
and abroad, EU leaders meet next
week to finalise the terms | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
of the transition period and there's
whispers that the UK will be allowed | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
to sign free trade deals
during that time. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
So, is there a renewed
optimism around Brexit? | 0:15:47 | 0:15:54 | |
Have you changed your mind? I
haven't, no, and I think also the | 0:15:55 | 0:16:00 | |
renewed optimism is slightly. Is an
idea, this | 0:16:00 | 0:16:06 | |
renewed optimism is slightly. Is an
idea, this, because we are talking | 0:16:06 | 0:16:07 | |
only about the transition period,
there is a long way to go on this | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
tricky path, wrote to Brexit is full
of potholes and roundabouts. What | 0:16:11 | 0:16:16 | |
about this victory as the government
will see it if they are allowed to | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
sign free trade deals during the
increment Asian period, this was | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
seen as another bone of contention
between the UK and the EU. -- during | 0:16:23 | 0:16:28 | |
the implementation period. It would
be a good deal, but who with. What | 0:16:28 | 0:16:35 | |
trade deals? Gloom and doom! Gloom
and doom, or a reality check? I | 0:16:35 | 0:16:40 | |
don't know if this is a victory,
they cannot be fermented until we | 0:16:40 | 0:16:45 | |
leave, these trade deals, that is
the point. -- they cannot be | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
implemented. Couldn't punishments be
levied? I cannot stop as having | 0:16:48 | 0:16:54 | |
negotiations, you can have a deal
ready to go, Day 1, and it would be | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
with all sorts of countries. Who
would it be with? Liam Fox said that | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
they are in discussion with 12 of
the major countries the EU does not | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
have a track free-trade deal with,
Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:10 | |
South Korea, etc, etc, that is a
good thing, why would anybody think | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
that is not a good thing? I think
the thought that, as the fifth or | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
sixth largest economy in the world,
people don't want to do free-trade | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
deals with us, is for the birds.
There maybe some people who would | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
argue they will not sign free-trade
deals until they know and see the | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
shape of the deal being done with
the EU, you access that? That would | 0:17:28 | 0:17:33 | |
be by October, the free-trade deal
with the EU may take longer but in a | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
sense, that is really up to the EU,
to determine that, because we have | 0:17:37 | 0:17:42 | |
two also remember that we are their
second largest trading partner, | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
after the United States, so it is in
both our interests to come to a deal | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
and come to it quickly. You'd
considerations on the economics and | 0:17:49 | 0:17:54 | |
politics, on the politics, do you
think there has been an achievement | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
in terms of holding the party
together? -- huge consideration. The | 0:17:57 | 0:18:03 | |
Tory party, reaching the end of the
first phase, getting a headline | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
agreement, even though there are
discussions about Ireland, and | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
possibly getting the transition
deal, is that not success? They have | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
held the party together but by
blurring the lines, and as soon as | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
you put more detail on to the table
and it becomes clearer and clearer | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
what exactly the negotiation is
agreeing, you will get more | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
differences between the Brexiteers
and the former Remainers, and I have | 0:18:25 | 0:18:30 | |
spoken with a cabinet minister
recently who said, on the Brexit | 0:18:30 | 0:18:33 | |
side, there is a spit between
pragmatists and the idealists. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:38 | |
Saying we must lot the perfect be
the enemy of the good, but quite a | 0:18:38 | 0:18:44 | |
lot of Brexiteers on backbenchers
who want to go in all guns blazing, | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
for a hard Brexit. And I think it is
going to be incredible hard for | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
Theresa May to get a deal on that
basis? It is true that it has not | 0:18:52 | 0:18:58 | |
been resolved, the differences have
not been resolved. And do you agree | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
that it needs to be resolved? The
priority is what we call the Tory | 0:19:01 | 0:19:06 | |
rebels, siding with Labour, for the
customs union, or whether it is the | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
Brexiteers who do not feel it is
going far enough? This sound like a | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
discussion from three months ago.
Are we in the same position? The | 0:19:14 | 0:19:23 | |
prime Mr Speaker, people wrote in
behind that, I accept... It was | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
conditional support from Jacob
Rees-Mogg. I interviewed him, he | 0:19:28 | 0:19:34 | |
could not have been more
enthusiastic, you come from the | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
remain side of the argument, you are
always going to try to find | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
different, and there are
differences, of course, the | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
Conservative Party has the
coalition, I think we have got past | 0:19:43 | 0:19:48 | |
the danger point with Theresa May,
if Theresa May suddenly turns on the | 0:19:48 | 0:19:53 | |
customs union single, believe me,
Jacob Rees-Mogg would pull the | 0:19:53 | 0:19:58 | |
trigger and she would be toppled,
I'm absolutely sure of that. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:06 | |
I'm absolutely sure of that. But I
think the events of the last seven | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
days, they have cemented her
position over Brexit, she has shown | 0:20:09 | 0:20:14 | |
true leadership, possibly a
leadership people did not think she | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
was capable of. It has strengthened
her position, for sure, but what is | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
still unresolved is how the racing
chip with the EU should be in the | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
longer term, how closely we should
be aligned to the regulations, how | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
much we should diverged... She has
put much more detail on it. That | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
speech, and at Chequers, the
agreement, it was likely over | 0:20:32 | 0:20:37 | |
reported, if you like. I think the
cabinet may be signed up, I'm not | 0:20:37 | 0:20:41 | |
sure the Tory party as a whole is
signed up to that. What about the | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
issue of the Northern Ireland
border, you say that this is a | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
discussion that we could have had
three months ago, these things have | 0:20:48 | 0:20:52 | |
not been completely resolved, and
your point about the customs union, | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
slightly hangs on this idea of what
happens between Northern Ireland and | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
Ireland. Well, it does, and people
on the remain side of the argument | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
are clearly looking at Northern
Ireland, the Northern Ireland deal | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
to scupper the whole thing and
reverse Brexit, I am absolutely | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
convinced of that. The Dublin
government, the EU, and ourselves | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
saying that we want a frictionless
border. If all sides agree with | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
that, that is what will happen in
the end, it doesn't matter that | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
there is no precedent for that and
the rest of the world. -- in the | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
rest of the world. There will be
some agreement even if it is at the | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
last minute. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
Since 2010 new faith schools have
had to abide by an admissions cap | 0:21:34 | 0:21:39 | |
which prevents them selecting more
than 50% of their pupils | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
on the basis of faith. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
Last week a group of senior
religious and humanist figures | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
published an open letter encouraging
the government not to drop the cap, | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
as was promised in the 2017
Conservative manifesto. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
But has the 50% limit worked
to integrate children | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
of different faiths, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:53 | |
or does it lead to discrimination
of a different kind? | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
Our Ellie's gone back to school
to find out just how one Catholic | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
community has been affected. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
Year 6 are learning about jazz | 0:22:09 | 0:22:10 | |
at St Albans Catholic primary
School in Cambridge. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:12 | |
Blissfully unaware of the noise
being made about faith schools, | 0:22:12 | 0:22:14 | |
although massively oversubscribed
in East Anglia in particular, | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
the Catholic church won't open any
more schools | 0:22:18 | 0:22:22 | |
until the Government removes the cap | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
which stops them selecting more
than half their pupils by religion. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
For the church, it's a key
religious principle. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:36 | |
We want to ensure
that every Catholic, | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
canon law says every Catholic should
be entitled to a Catholic place. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:43 | |
The 50% cap could possibly put us
in a dilemma where we would be | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
turning away Catholics,
and that is not acceptable. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:52 | |
In place of non-Catholics? | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
In place of non-Catholics,
and that is not acceptable. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
St Albans doesn't need
to adhere to the cap, | 0:22:58 | 0:23:00 | |
that only applies to
new faith schools. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
But with only two Catholic Schools
out of 210 primaries | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
in Cambridgeshire, it means a lot
of Catholics being turned away. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
Much to the frustration
of Angela Bennett, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:13 | |
a devout Catholic whose first four
kids went to St Albans, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
but the youngest couldn't get in. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
So what does it mean to you to not
be able to send your remaining two | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
children to a Catholic school? | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
Well, it is disappointing
because I feel like our | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
choices being taken away. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:25 | |
It's not just for Sunday mornings,
it's about living it. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
So, you know, I think
about my faith when I'm at work. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:30 | |
The children, I think,
would benefit from thinking | 0:23:30 | 0:23:32 | |
about their faith when they're
at school, and talking about it | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
with their friends, learning
about it from their teachers | 0:23:35 | 0:23:37 | |
as well as just from me. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:42 | |
Catholic schools make up almost
10% of all primaries. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
They educate 416,000 pupils. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:47 | |
The Catholic education service says
a third are non-Catholic. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
We have almost 30 parents
who want to come to our school | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
who are not Catholic,
so that speaks volumes as well, | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
and we would like to meet
their needs as well. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
Earlier this month, 70 politicians,
academics and faith leaders, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
including a former Archbishop
of Canterbury, | 0:24:01 | 0:24:02 | |
wrote an open letter warning
that lifting the cap | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
would have a damaging effect
on social cohesion. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:11 | |
It's going to create almost
an educational apartheid system. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
We wouldn't dream of dividing
the children by colour of skin. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
It would be laughable, illegal. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:17 | |
And yet, we're doing it by religion. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:18 | |
But this does disproportionately
affect Catholic schools, doesn't it? | 0:24:18 | 0:24:21 | |
You know, I'm arguing from a faith
perspective against faith | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
schools because I believe, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:26 | |
as do others, love your
neighbour as yourself. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
And you can't love your neighbour
unless you know him. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:36 | |
The Conservative manifesto in last
year's election | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
pledged to repeal what it called | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
the unfair and ineffective 50% rule. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
But this week, the Department
for Education tell us there's | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
no date in the diary. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:48 | |
That's presumably because they are
expecting a ding-dong either way. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:56 | |
We are joined by the director of the
Catholic education service. Do you | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
accept what the rabbi said, that
lifting the cap will affect social | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
cohesion? No, this is not about
segregation, this is about choice, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:17 | |
and as we know from the primaries
call, they have enough places to | 0:25:17 | 0:25:22 | |
supply the demand... -- they don't
have enough places to supply the | 0:25:22 | 0:25:27 | |
demand not just from Catholic
parents but others as well, a third | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
of pupils from outside the Catholic
faith and in most parts of the | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
country we are able to respond to
that demand. You say it is not about | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
segregation but it will lead to more
segregation, to increase numbers, if | 0:25:37 | 0:25:42 | |
one third are not Catholic, lifting
the cap will ensure that number goes | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
down. No, it will not, that is in
existing schools, where the cap does | 0:25:45 | 0:25:50 | |
not operate, the problem we have is
in areas where there is pressure on | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
places, and we need new places, we
cannot do it by expanding existing | 0:25:53 | 0:25:58 | |
schools. What is happening in those
places is those schools are coming | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
sadly less diverse because we are
not able to open new schools to | 0:26:01 | 0:26:06 | |
cater to all the parental demand. I
take your point about existing new | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
schools but there is a fundamental
principle raised in that film, that | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
you are wanting to extend the right
to divide children up on the basis | 0:26:13 | 0:26:19 | |
of religion and label them that way.
It is not about that, it is about | 0:26:19 | 0:26:23 | |
the ability to cope with parental
choice, we only want to build | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
schools where there is a demand from
parents for places, that comes from | 0:26:26 | 0:26:31 | |
the Catholic community and come from
outside the Catholic community, we | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
want to be able to respond to the
demand. The 50% cap would mean we | 0:26:33 | 0:26:38 | |
have two build a school which we
would then turn away the very | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
children that the school was founded
to serve, that does not seem to make | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
any logical sense. Does it make
sense to you, that actually, lifting | 0:26:45 | 0:26:50 | |
this cap will then give parents
particularly in this case Catholic | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
parents the chance to get the school
that they would | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
like for their child, a school of
faith? I think it is a false | 0:26:56 | 0:27:02 | |
argument, you should not have
parental choice to allow an | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
apartheid system to develop. One of
the biggest problems in society at | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
the moment is a growing segregation
between faiths, rowing sense of | 0:27:08 | 0:27:13 | |
volition, it seems completely crazy,
in that case, to separate children | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
out on the basis of their faith.
This is not just about Catholic | 0:27:16 | 0:27:21 | |
schools, it is about Muslim schools,
Church of England schools, Hindu | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
schools, as soon as you divide on
the basis of faith, you are bound to | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
increase division. You want to
increase a cohesive society, we are | 0:27:29 | 0:27:37 | |
blowing it by dividing children, we
want children to mix. Would you say | 0:27:37 | 0:27:43 | |
ban any further faith schools? I
think you cannot ban the existing | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
ones, as you say, but you should
have a moratorium on new faith | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
schools, I did a piece a couple of
months ago based on Ofsted | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
inspections of Muslim schools,
absolutely appalling literature in | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
the libraries, being taught to
children, women go to hell... This | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
included women with tall ambitions,
showing in gratitude to their | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
husbands, they were told that those
were the women that go to hell! | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
These values are not being
inculcated in schools at the moment, | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
we should not have any more until
that is enforced. Do you recognise | 0:28:12 | 0:28:17 | |
the risk of dog of a particular
religion being foisted on children, | 0:28:17 | 0:28:21 | |
in the way that has just been
described by Rachel? Let's be clear, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
a third of the schools in this
country are schools with a religious | 0:28:25 | 0:28:30 | |
character, 99% of those are checked
schools, almost all of them provided | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
by us and the Church of England,
when you talk about how to tackle a | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
problem, you need to identify what
is the problem. There is a problem | 0:28:36 | 0:28:43 | |
with monocultural school but that is
not a problem we have in our sector. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
I know that you are at the
beginning, but won't it become more | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
like that if there is not a cap? No,
in some areas, the cap is preventing | 0:28:49 | 0:28:54 | |
us from keeping the diversity that
is already in the system. Can I | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
just... Our schools are among the
most diverse in the educational | 0:28:57 | 0:29:03 | |
system. When you say schools
provided by us, who is paying for | 0:29:03 | 0:29:07 | |
these schools, who is paying for the
upkeep, the education, taxpayer or | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
the Catholic Church? It is a
partnership with the state, whereby | 0:29:11 | 0:29:16 | |
the church makes a contribution...
How much? Well, it depends, most of | 0:29:16 | 0:29:22 | |
the schools... 10%? 80%? It depends,
most of the schools were divided | 0:29:22 | 0:29:28 | |
with land and buildings by... Day
today, 10%, 80%. In terms of revenue | 0:29:28 | 0:29:33 | |
funding, it is funded by the
taxpayer. Exactly, exactly! | 0:29:33 | 0:29:38 | |
Catholics are taxpayers. Why should
taxpayers who cannot send their | 0:29:38 | 0:29:42 | |
children to certain schools, why
should they be funding Catholic | 0:29:42 | 0:29:44 | |
schools or any faith schools? It
seems reasonable that taxpayers | 0:29:44 | 0:29:47 | |
should fund a range of schools, to
allow taxpayers to choose from a | 0:29:47 | 0:29:53 | |
range of schools. I range of
schools, not dominated by one | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
religion... | 0:29:56 | 0:30:02 | |
I agree with everything Rachel said,
so you won't get much of a debate | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
between us. In this day and age, to
say that we should have religious | 0:30:05 | 0:30:09 | |
schools which are funded by the
taxpayer, I don't see how we can | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
sustain that any longer. I'm not in
favour of closing down good schools. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
I'm quite in favour of closing down
bad schools that have the kind of | 0:30:17 | 0:30:22 | |
things that Rachel has told us
about. Many faith schools are very | 0:30:22 | 0:30:26 | |
good. I am not saying they should be
shut down, but I think we have to in | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
the future minimise them. Do you
think the lifting of the cap will | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
happen? It looks like the Department
may be more lukewarm than they have | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
been. It was a manifesto commitment.
Others have been dropped. We very | 0:30:37 | 0:30:42 | |
much hope that is one the Government
will stick to. Thank you for joining | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
us. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
It was billed as Gavin Williamson's
first major speech | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
as Defence Secretary, | 0:30:50 | 0:30:51 | |
and the stakes were high, | 0:30:51 | 0:30:52 | |
given the government's
stand-off with the Kremlin. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
Was it a chance to show
a Churchillian spirit? | 0:30:54 | 0:30:56 | |
A show of strength to
Britain's global enemies? | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
So how did he do? | 0:30:58 | 0:30:59 | |
Let's take a look. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:01 | |
What we will do is,
we will look at what Russia... | 0:31:01 | 0:31:05 | |
How Russia response
to what we have done. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
It is absolutely
atrocious and outrageous | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
what Russia did in Salisbury. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
We have responded to that. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:16 | |
Frankly, Russia should
go away, should shut | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
up, but if they do
respond to what we... | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
The action we have taken,
we will consider it carefully, and | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
we'll look at our options. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:28 | |
But it would be wrong
to prejudge their | 0:31:28 | 0:31:30 | |
response. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
Welcomer joining us now is Patrick
Kidd, political sketch writer for | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
the times. What did you make of it,
Patrick is Mike I was surprised that | 0:31:38 | 0:31:42 | |
school has broken up this early. It
is a few more weeks. -- Patrick? I | 0:31:42 | 0:31:52 | |
put a tenner on Gavin Williamson to
be Prime Minister last summer before | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
I had seen him in action. There was
all this talk of him being Frances | 0:31:55 | 0:32:00 | |
Burkert, the Chief Whip knifing his
rivals. This wasn't good, it wasn't | 0:32:00 | 0:32:04 | |
diplomacy. They talk about Winston
Churchill marshalling the English | 0:32:04 | 0:32:08 | |
language and sending it out into
battle, but this was Gavin Williams | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
asking for a fight behind the bike
sheds. Your colleagues are Britain | 0:32:11 | 0:32:16 | |
excoriating articles and sketches
about Tim - do you think that is | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
fair? One person said he sounded
like a not very bright sixth form | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
student being asked to read out his
unfinished history essay in front of | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
the class. It is there. You need
gravitas, and at times of national | 0:32:28 | 0:32:33 | |
crisis, you have to give a sensual
in command of the situation. It was | 0:32:33 | 0:32:39 | |
worrying, and it was delivered in
that squeaky Alan Bennett voice, and | 0:32:39 | 0:32:43 | |
he looks like a young Albert Steptoe
as well, not a reassuring... Don't | 0:32:43 | 0:32:48 | |
hold back, Patrick! The response
from the Russian embassy was to call | 0:32:48 | 0:32:55 | |
him a vulgar old tart. A fishwife.
Maybe there was a whole list. He's a | 0:32:55 | 0:33:02 | |
good-looking young man. Good old
Gavin Williamson, obviously in | 0:33:02 | 0:33:06 | |
favour with Sergei Lavrov, who also
said all, the Foreign Ministry said, | 0:33:06 | 0:33:12 | |
it was political impotence. How does
this look? Gavin Williamson since he | 0:33:12 | 0:33:18 | |
has been Defence Secretary has a
talent for attracting headlines, not | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
all of them positive, it has to be
said. I think this has been jumped | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
on by people for obvious reasons,
because it wasn't a very | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
statesman-like thing to say. You are
right, it wasn't part of the speech | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
but was an answer to a question, but
when you look at what he said, he | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
did not have the say it. He could
have stopped at the end of the | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
previous sentence, and I think a lot
of his colleagues will have had | 0:33:39 | 0:33:42 | |
their heads in their hands. Nerves,
inexperienced? And perhaps we're | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
looking at it through a particular
prism. To make Boris Johnson look | 0:33:46 | 0:33:53 | |
statesman-like is quite... Do you
think there was a strategy behind | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
it? For the Defence Secretary, at a
time of tension with Russia, he has | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
to look serious and like a grown-up.
He has been a bit of a man in a | 0:34:01 | 0:34:06 | |
hurry, has had his ambition is on
his sleeve, as it were. All that | 0:34:06 | 0:34:15 | |
business... He played on his own
political genius, if you like, and | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
played that up. He is like becoming
a cropper under the pressure of a | 0:34:19 | 0:34:24 | |
big, important job. Do you think he
will see the funny side of it? I | 0:34:24 | 0:34:29 | |
hope so. I think you need to if you
are going to survive in politics, | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
but I just wonder... We are all
saying this isn't Churchill, but we | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
live in the age of Donald Trump,
where politicians do well if they | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
don't play by the rules, may be
people will say he sell stuff. He | 0:34:40 | 0:34:46 | |
doesn't look tough. He does take the
Mickey out of himself from time to | 0:34:46 | 0:34:51 | |
time, so I'm sure we will see some
references in the future. We all | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
need a sense of humour, don't we?
For the next half an | 0:34:54 | 0:35:00 | |
hour, we will focus on Europe,
discussing the EU reaction to the | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
Russian double double agent
poisoning. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:13 | |
- social media, | 0:35:13 | 0:35:14 | |
and we'll talk about the man | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
they call 'rasputin'
in the European Commission. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:17 | |
First though here's our guide
to the latest from Europe - | 0:35:17 | 0:35:20 | |
in just sixty seconds. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:21 | |
This week, MEPs voted in favour
of setting up recommendations | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
for a future relationship
with the UK, the draft text has now | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
been sent to London. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:33 | |
Meanwhile, European Commission
president Jean-Claude Juncker told | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
parliament that the UK would regret
Brexit, to the amusement | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
of Eurosceptics. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
You will regret the decision. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:35:41 | 0:35:42 | |
It's emerged a European Parliament
delegation has been conducting | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
secret talks with North Korea
to try to persuade | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
them to end their nuclear programme. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
Elsewhere, Slovak PM Robert Fico
resigned after weeks of turmoil | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
sparked by the murder
of an investigative journalist | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
who had raised questions about his
judgment after it was alleged | 0:35:55 | 0:36:03 | |
a close aide had links to the Mafia. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
And millions of Europeans may have
been running late since mid-January | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
following an electrical dispute
between Kosovo and Serbia, | 0:36:10 | 0:36:12 | |
causing clocks to lag behind by up
to six minutes across 25 countries. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:20 | |
Let's picked up after that. Ian,
Jean-Claude Juncker says we will | 0:36:21 | 0:36:26 | |
regret Brexit. What do you say?
Yellow McKee has to say that because | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
the EU has now we do otherwise there
might be other member states that | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
might want to follow suit, so of
course he will say that. Some of the | 0:36:33 | 0:36:37 | |
reaction has been slightly over the
top. He has to say that because... | 0:36:37 | 0:36:44 | |
We would expect him to say that.
Should he not give that line a rest? | 0:36:44 | 0:36:49 | |
It is true, we do expect it to some
extent, and this idea that we don't | 0:36:49 | 0:36:56 | |
want to see others go the way of
Britain, as the European Commission | 0:36:56 | 0:37:00 | |
would put it, but otherwise we
should drop it? He is probably | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
right. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:09 | |
right. It is already proving much
more complicated. The economic | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
implications are becoming clear, all
of that, but I think he is the worst | 0:37:12 | 0:37:15 | |
possible person to say it. It sounds
so arrogant, exactly what everyone | 0:37:15 | 0:37:21 | |
voted against is being told what to
do by the EU and some bureaucrat. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:28 | |
Maybe he is right, but he should
shut up, as Gavin Williamson might | 0:37:28 | 0:37:33 | |
say. And go away, to finish the
phrase. The think it stiffens the | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
resolve every time he said something
like that, or do you think people | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
have priced it in? I think people
factor in. I think that guy the | 0:37:41 | 0:37:48 | |
hostel at -- diva horse that is...
Some of his statements over the past | 0:37:48 | 0:37:55 | |
few weeks are different to what he
was saying six months ago. Much more | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
interested in getting the right
deal, more positive, more | 0:37:58 | 0:38:03 | |
constructive than he has been he was
one of the first people to come to | 0:38:03 | 0:38:09 | |
Britain's support over Russia as
well. I think the people on my side | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
of the argument need to recognise
that there is a bit of a change | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
among some people in this, and I
think we should also be very open in | 0:38:15 | 0:38:20 | |
thanking European countries for
their support over Russia, because | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
that wasn't necessarily a given. If
France and Germany had not come out | 0:38:25 | 0:38:29 | |
so strongly, and Denmark there was
another one, then of course, Rachel | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
would be writing very learned
columns | 0:38:32 | 0:38:38 | |
on it. Let's discuss the EU reaction
to Russia and UK's relations with | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
them. There has only been one big
story in town this week, that of the | 0:38:42 | 0:38:48 | |
poisoning... | 0:38:48 | 0:38:51 | |
of Sergei Skirpal in Salisbury. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:52 | |
The British government has responded
by expelling diplomats and we await | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
the Russian retaliation. | 0:38:55 | 0:38:56 | |
But, what will the EU do? | 0:38:56 | 0:39:04 | |
What do you make of the EU response
to the Sergei Skripal poisoning? We | 0:39:08 | 0:39:17 | |
are going to see very different
approaches, because some of the | 0:39:17 | 0:39:22 | |
countries would be criticising
Russia very severely, and at the | 0:39:22 | 0:39:29 | |
same time, I think almost a clear
majority will feel themselves very | 0:39:29 | 0:39:36 | |
much pushed in a direction where
they have to stand up for the values | 0:39:36 | 0:39:44 | |
and four member states, even if it
is a member state who is about to | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
leave. So I think we are going to
discuss this in the Parliament in | 0:39:47 | 0:39:51 | |
the next session, and I think the
verdict will be pretty harsh. Pretty | 0:39:51 | 0:39:58 | |
harsh in terms of the stance against
Russia? | 0:39:58 | 0:40:07 | |
Russia? Well, we have a lot of
indications in this case. Russian | 0:40:07 | 0:40:13 | |
security agencies have killed their
former agents earlier. That's almost | 0:40:13 | 0:40:25 | |
a question of honour for them. So
the only one who could actually be | 0:40:25 | 0:40:31 | |
interested in getting rid of Skripal
is the Russians. We won't find a | 0:40:31 | 0:40:37 | |
person with a smoking gun going in
or out from the Russian Embassy in | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
London. We would find that, I'm
pretty sure. When you kill persons | 0:40:41 | 0:40:49 | |
like this, this is a very cynical
killing, because they didn't even | 0:40:49 | 0:40:54 | |
care about Sergei's daughter. My
guess would be that there will be | 0:40:54 | 0:40:59 | |
middlemen, and there can be a lot of
them, in between. From my point of | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
view, I think Russia should be very
interested in clearing this, | 0:41:04 | 0:41:18 | |
interested in clearing this, because
the Novichok poison, the only source | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
for it could be Russia. In the 90s,
there were weapons depots in Russia | 0:41:21 | 0:41:28 | |
that were taken apart because the
state could not pay the wages, and | 0:41:28 | 0:41:33 | |
the military to what they could,
almost all the AK-47s in Europe come | 0:41:33 | 0:41:39 | |
from these depots. There is a
possibility that this also had this | 0:41:39 | 0:41:47 | |
background. Because of your
proximity to Russia in Finland, are | 0:41:47 | 0:41:53 | |
you afraid of Russia and Russian
retaliation in general? | 0:41:53 | 0:42:01 | |
retaliation in general? No, we're
probably the only country in Europe | 0:42:01 | 0:42:07 | |
having had a war with Russia and
still staying an independent nation, | 0:42:07 | 0:42:12 | |
so I think we have... Our
credentials in this respect are | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
pretty good, and I don't think we
are afraid of them. What we should | 0:42:17 | 0:42:23 | |
be slightly scared of in Europe in
general is not very rational | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
behaviour in Russia, because it's an
unstable system for the moment. You | 0:42:28 | 0:42:34 | |
have somebody up there, Vladimir
Putin, and you don't actually have a | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
machinery on which you can put any
much trust. The system as such is | 0:42:39 | 0:42:48 | |
unstable, and that's the problem.
What about concrete help from the | 0:42:48 | 0:42:52 | |
European Union? What concrete help
can Britain expect? | 0:42:52 | 0:42:59 | |
can Britain expect? It depends what
you need. As I said, we have a lot | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
of indications about the source of
this murder, but as I also said, we | 0:43:05 | 0:43:12 | |
won't find a smoking gun, so what
would Great Britain need in these | 0:43:12 | 0:43:18 | |
times from us? I think, if you go
back to what we could offer, we | 0:43:18 | 0:43:24 | |
could offer all the knowledge that
our services could find. And if | 0:43:24 | 0:43:35 | |
Russia is retaliating even more in
regard of Great Britain, then of | 0:43:35 | 0:43:41 | |
course, we have to follow suit. We
have to do something just to show | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
our solidarity. This might go
further. Do you think that there | 0:43:45 | 0:43:51 | |
would have been any difference...
Nils, I will come back to you in a | 0:43:51 | 0:43:57 | |
moment. Do you think there would be
any different in the EU response if | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
Brexit wasn't happening? No, I don't
know what other response that could | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
have been. They have been as
supportive as they can be. The fact | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
that France, Germany and the US
signed this strong letter, this | 0:44:09 | 0:44:15 | |
strong statement, I imagine that a
lot of the other countries would be | 0:44:15 | 0:44:18 | |
happy to sign up to it too, so I
don't know what else we could | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
expect. Tony Britton said after the
lip in Janko incident, Europe showed | 0:44:22 | 0:44:30 | |
solidarity but there wasn't much in
terms of concrete members. Are we | 0:44:30 | 0:44:35 | |
expecting EU nations to expel
Russian diplomats and put further | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
sanctions in place? Should we expect
these things from the EU and the | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
United States? I think there could
be more economic sanctions, but I | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
think the show of solidarity and
strength is in itself very | 0:44:46 | 0:44:48 | |
important. That is a statement that
a multilateral approach is important | 0:44:48 | 0:44:53 | |
and does work. Even as Brexit is
going along, we are not ever going | 0:44:53 | 0:44:58 | |
to be able to live and operate in
splendid isolation. We will always | 0:44:58 | 0:45:02 | |
have to rely on allies in Europe, in
America, and I think that's | 0:45:02 | 0:45:08 | |
incredibly important as a reminder
at this very critical moment in the | 0:45:08 | 0:45:12 | |
negotiations to both sides. Read hi
and this is a big story in European | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
countries. I did an interview on
Danish television yesterday, and it | 0:45:16 | 0:45:20 | |
is the number one story week. Some
people are thinking this is a story | 0:45:20 | 0:45:24 | |
in a small town in England, but it's
not. Finally, the Neils, it is a big | 0:45:24 | 0:45:30 | |
story in European countries?
countries, is at the case, and is it | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
a big story in the European
Parliament? It is a big story, yes, | 0:45:34 | 0:45:42 | |
indeed! White, well, because it is a
very cynical murder, and, all the | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
indications we have are pointing at
Russia. We should demand of them | 0:45:46 | 0:45:53 | |
some very honest and some very clear
answers, and if they are not able to | 0:45:53 | 0:45:58 | |
deliver those answers, then we have
to think about further measures, and | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
those measures should be European
measures, not just UK measures, | 0:46:02 | 0:46:11 | |
Finnish measures, Belgian measures,
they should be European measures. He | 0:46:11 | 0:46:15 | |
has described it as a murder, Nils,
but we should say that they are | 0:46:15 | 0:46:21 | |
critically ill in hospital, Sergei
and Yulia Skripal., they are not | 0:46:21 | 0:46:28 | |
dead. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:29 | |
It's been described as a coup
and the European Union's | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
very own House of Cards. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:35 | |
Brussels beaurocrat Marton Selmayr,
who used to be Jean Claude | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
Juncker's Chief of Staff,
has been promoted to be the head | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
of the EU's civil service. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:41 | |
The EU Commission has argued
Mr Selmayr's appointment | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
as Secretary General
was all above board | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
but some MEPs are furious. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:46 | |
Here's Adam Fleming with more. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:54 | |
There's something about Martin. He
has found himself in the front row, | 0:46:56 | 0:47:02 | |
either for his slightly scary
reputation or accused of leaking | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
details of a "Brexit" dinner in
Downing Street, now, it is because | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
of his promotion. Martin Selmayr has
been going up in the world, he | 0:47:08 | 0:47:13 | |
applied for and got the job of
Deputy Secretary-General, then, in | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
the same meeting, Secretary-General
announced he was replying -- | 0:47:16 | 0:47:20 | |
retiring, and Martin Selmayr I was
transferred into his job. Summoned | 0:47:20 | 0:47:26 | |
by M EPs to blame, the Commissioner
for HR, Gunther Oettinger, said it | 0:47:26 | 0:47:31 | |
was all above board. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:37 | |
was all above board. -- MEPs. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:39 | |
TRANSLATION: Martin Selmayr
has all the necessary | 0:47:40 | 0:47:42 | |
altercation to take on the task
of Secretary-General | 0:47:42 | 0:47:50 | |
of the commission, he has lengthy
experience in key positions | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
within the commission,
he is an excellent legal expert, | 0:47:55 | 0:47:57 | |
he is excellent at communication
and 100% suitable for this position. | 0:47:57 | 0:47:59 | |
But, members from across
the political spectrum lined up | 0:47:59 | 0:48:02 | |
to criticise the appointment. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:07 | |
Selmayr-gate denies
all the credibility | 0:48:07 | 0:48:09 | |
of the European Union as a champion
of integrity and transparency | 0:48:09 | 0:48:11 | |
in public administration, at times,
when public trust in the European | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
is low, this is devastating,
Mr Oettinger, and the fact | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
that the commission remains deaf
until the day of today | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
to criticism shows just how
disconnected it is from reality. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:21 | |
You should do your best to come out
with something which is trustworthy, | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
and you should avoid any feeling
or any impression that | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
it was a preprepared,
allegedly motivated nomination, | 0:48:26 | 0:48:28 | |
and unfortunately, I don't
think that in this case | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
you did your job perfectly. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
You can see the defeat
etched in their faces, | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
this is the morning after, | 0:48:34 | 0:48:35 | |
and these were the European
Union's commissioners. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:40 | |
TRANSLATION: To some, | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
it brings back memories of 1999, | 0:48:43 | 0:48:51 | |
when a report accused
one of Jacques Santer's | 0:48:52 | 0:48:54 | |
commission of cronyism
and they all resigned en masse. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:58 | |
Back | 0:48:58 | 0:49:05 | |
I arrived here just after the fall
of that commission, | 0:49:09 | 0:49:12 | |
and I would say this to you,
Ukip would never have won any seats | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
in the European Parliament had it
not been for the nepotism | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
of the Santer Commission
and so I've always been very | 0:49:18 | 0:49:20 | |
grateful to Jacques Santer. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
Does this at all feel
like that period? | 0:49:22 | 0:49:23 | |
Could this be the start
of that sort of thing. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
Nearly. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
What's interesting is,
you would have thought | 0:49:27 | 0:49:28 | |
the appointment of an official
to a big job would be a story that | 0:49:28 | 0:49:32 | |
would have stayed within Brussels
and Strasbourg but actually, | 0:49:32 | 0:49:34 | |
it is out there, it has been talked
about in the French media, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
it is trending on Twitter. | 0:49:37 | 0:49:38 | |
There's a lot going on in this
Martin Selmayr story, | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
some score settling,
some anti-German sentiment, some | 0:49:40 | 0:49:42 | |
opportunism, some genuine concern. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:43 | |
And now his promotion will be
the subject of a Parliamentary | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
enquiry, with the vote in Strasbourg
at some point in the future. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Good luck in the new job, Martin! | 0:49:49 | 0:49:57 | |
Alex Barker, all this fuss about
Martin Selmayr, is it overplayed, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:07 | |
this is politics, so, Celts appraise
Saga is a what makes it special is | 0:50:07 | 0:50:13 | |
that he was a political appointment
and politics is moving against him | 0:50:13 | 0:50:17 | |
and so, it has brought him into the
limelight in a way that for once, | 0:50:17 | 0:50:22 | |
he's not particularly comfortable
with. -- quelle surprise. EU | 0:50:22 | 0:50:26 | |
Jean-Claude Junker's man, how
powerful is see in this new role? I | 0:50:26 | 0:50:30 | |
don't think his new role makes much
difference, is it ordinary powerful | 0:50:30 | 0:50:34 | |
in terms of the Chief of staff or
top aide to a European Commission | 0:50:34 | 0:50:43 | |
president, you have to go back to
the days of the law and his team to | 0:50:43 | 0:50:46 | |
have anything equivalent to this. --
De Lors. And he micromanage is, his | 0:50:46 | 0:50:54 | |
cursive is over every document that
emerges from this place, what Sting | 0:50:54 | 0:51:00 | |
wishes him is his willingness to
take on a public profile, I asked | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
him once his method was so tough on
things, he said, I cannot run the | 0:51:03 | 0:51:10 | |
commission like a Montessori school
and his methods, is micromanagement, | 0:51:10 | 0:51:15 | |
his energy, has really made him
stand out in terms of a bureaucrat | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
here. You have met him, what is he
like? Is good company, news quite | 0:51:18 | 0:51:26 | |
funny, is absolutely determined, he
can turn against you quite easily, | 0:51:26 | 0:51:30 | |
and, he runs the place like a tight
ship, he surrounds himself by people | 0:51:30 | 0:51:36 | |
who are loyal to him. His top
appointments in the commission have | 0:51:36 | 0:51:41 | |
been people who are loyal to him. I
think the pressure he is facing is | 0:51:41 | 0:51:46 | |
partly a function of unease about
his boss, really, Jean-Claude | 0:51:46 | 0:51:51 | |
Juncker hasn't got the energy that
some MEPs would hope European | 0:51:51 | 0:51:55 | |
Commission president would have, and
yet the commission is powerful at | 0:51:55 | 0:52:00 | |
the same time so attention is
turning to his aid, and he is | 0:52:00 | 0:52:06 | |
absorbing some of the criticism.
Described as anything from a monster | 0:52:06 | 0:52:11 | |
to Rasputin, in the UK press, their
discussions? I ask them that, he | 0:52:11 | 0:52:16 | |
said, Jean-Claude Juncker is the
good guy, and I am the bad guy, he | 0:52:16 | 0:52:20 | |
is in., and for some member states,
they are pleased he is paying the | 0:52:20 | 0:52:25 | |
role, this is a big unwieldy place,
30,000 bureaucrats here, and he | 0:52:25 | 0:52:31 | |
delivers for them, at times, when
they have a special favour to ask | 0:52:31 | 0:52:36 | |
when they are in a particularly
politically difficult problem, but | 0:52:36 | 0:52:39 | |
it also means that he upsets a lot
of people, and so, there are people | 0:52:39 | 0:52:44 | |
upset that there are too many
Germans into top positions, the | 0:52:44 | 0:52:47 | |
Germans are upset that Martin is not
German enough! LAUGHTER | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
There are those that would prefer
this to be a civil service, and not | 0:52:51 | 0:52:58 | |
run by, effectively, a political
appointees. The coalition of the | 0:52:58 | 0:53:02 | |
upset(!) is growing, and he is under
pressure. You cannot please all | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
people all of the time, or even any
of the time, Alex Barker, thank you | 0:53:06 | 0:53:10 | |
very much for joining us. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:12 | |
While Russian-British
relations have fallen | 0:53:15 | 0:53:17 | |
to their lowest level in decades,
a very new type of diplomacy has | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
been playing out on Twitter. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:21 | |
The official account of the Russian
embassy in London have frequently | 0:53:21 | 0:53:24 | |
goaded the British government,
so much so that they've been called | 0:53:24 | 0:53:26 | |
professional trolls by some. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:27 | |
When Theresa May called Russia's
reaction to the Skripal | 0:53:27 | 0:53:29 | |
affair one of "sarcasm,
contempt, and defiance," | 0:53:29 | 0:53:31 | |
she could well have had their social
media output in mind. | 0:53:31 | 0:53:34 | |
After the expulsion of 23
of their own diplomats this week | 0:53:34 | 0:53:36 | |
they posted: | 0:53:36 | 0:53:41 | |
"the temperature of
Russian-British relations drops | 0:53:41 | 0:53:47 | |
to minus 23 but we are not
afraid of cold weather." | 0:53:47 | 0:53:52 | |
On Tuesday they said: | 0:53:52 | 0:53:56 | |
"Any threat to take 'punitive'
measures against Russia | 0:53:56 | 0:53:58 | |
will meet with a response. | 0:53:58 | 0:53:59 | |
The British side should
be aware of that." | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
With a handy diagram
to explain their point. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:06 | |
This post asked, | 0:54:06 | 0:54:09 | |
a week after Sergei Skripal
and his daughter were poisoned, | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
"Does Russia's dialing code 007 make
James Bond a "Russian spy"? | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
And last month when the UK
was battling the beast | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
from the east, their poll asked, | 0:54:16 | 0:54:18 | |
"What Russian customs should Brits
adopt with this snow blizzard?" | 0:54:18 | 0:54:23 | |
The most popular answer:
Drink more vodka. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
And joining us now is journalist
and Twitter meme expert | 0:54:26 | 0:54:28 | |
Mollie Goodfellow and Russian
comedian Konstantin Kisin. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:33 | |
Welcome to the both of you, to a
British audience, these tweets are | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
pretty bizarre, even offensive,
given the current context, are we | 0:54:37 | 0:54:42 | |
missing the joke? I don't think so,
these are cheesy and slightly | 0:54:42 | 0:54:46 | |
unoriginal, I would say, but that is
where Russia finds itself, trying to | 0:54:46 | 0:54:52 | |
fight a war of words, and one of the
interesting things in terms of | 0:54:52 | 0:54:56 | |
difference, we don't have the
concept of banter, in Russia, the | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
idea that you would say horrible
things to your friends as a sign of | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
affection does not exist, so when
you see these attempts, they are an | 0:55:02 | 0:55:05 | |
attempt to undermine the West's
message, that Russia is doing this | 0:55:05 | 0:55:10 | |
through humour. How effective this
is, I don't think we really know, | 0:55:10 | 0:55:14 | |
but that is what is happening. You
think it represents a Russian sense | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
of humour, even if it is not very
good and clumsily done. These are | 0:55:17 | 0:55:21 | |
the kind of jokes that you write
when you have not heard jokes | 0:55:21 | 0:55:24 | |
before. LAUGHTER
He says, crushingly! Are they funny? | 0:55:24 | 0:55:29 | |
I think some people find humour in
them, look at the Job tweets they | 0:55:29 | 0:55:33 | |
do, against the straight
ambassadorial tweets they do, I | 0:55:33 | 0:55:36 | |
think you get far more sense of
engagement. -- look at the joke | 0:55:36 | 0:55:42 | |
tweets. So people are finding it
funny, and that kind of disconnect | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
between this is a very serious
political unit, against, being like | 0:55:45 | 0:55:53 | |
a troll, and they are tweeting in
the way that tweeters tweet, which | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
is, looking at a political account
is quite rare! Using the medium and | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
the current context, very serious,
but actually, the king at what has | 0:56:01 | 0:56:06 | |
been written, they are not bad, in
an attempt to dare I say, break the | 0:56:06 | 0:56:12 | |
ice... -- looking at what has been
written. But, really... | 0:56:12 | 0:56:18 | |
Unbelievably, unbelievably, that
came off the top of my head(!) I | 0:56:18 | 0:56:21 | |
think it is such a serious
situation, three people in hospital | 0:56:21 | 0:56:25 | |
having been poisoned with a nerve
agent. It is not a time for silly | 0:56:25 | 0:56:29 | |
jokes on Twitter, and again, this
is, there has also been Russian bots | 0:56:29 | 0:56:35 | |
interfering in western democracy
around the world, I think it is not | 0:56:35 | 0:56:41 | |
a laughing matter. Tasteless and
inappropriate? No, it is a | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
deflection tactic, that is what it
is, I think they are quite funny in | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
some ways, but we all pay attention
to them, we are discussing them here | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
now, we would not be doing that if
they had not done that, it's like | 0:56:51 | 0:56:55 | |
when the Liberal Democrats press
office did similar tweets, we all | 0:56:55 | 0:56:58 | |
followed the press office, which we
would never have done before! What | 0:56:58 | 0:57:02 | |
with the Russian reaction be to
these kind of tweets from an | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
official British account? Well, I
wouldn't know, but in terms of the | 0:57:06 | 0:57:10 | |
Russian reaction to these tweets.
The Russians will be quite enjoying | 0:57:10 | 0:57:14 | |
this trolling, and in terms of
seriousness, Russian people tend to | 0:57:14 | 0:57:19 | |
be a lot less squeamish and a less
politically correct on these issues, | 0:57:19 | 0:57:23 | |
so when most Russian people see
these tweets, they would be enjoying | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
it and saying, well... We should
offer them your services! I think | 0:57:26 | 0:57:31 | |
this works in their favour, because,
it is that dichotomy between the | 0:57:31 | 0:57:36 | |
strict parent, telling Russia to
stop it, and the child pointing | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
their tongue out and blowing
raspberries. It works in their | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 | |
favour. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:54 | |
favour. Plane to cultural norms,
like the Russia, and the Russian | 0:57:54 | 0:57:58 | |
weather, and vodka, is that an
attempt to reach out? It is a stable | 0:57:58 | 0:58:03 | |
of my comedy, absolutely(!) you have
to play with this but it is a | 0:58:03 | 0:58:06 | |
question of what you are trying to
achieve, and in this case, in terms | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
of rushing humour, we are not quite
as self-deprecating as British | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
people, when we make fun of someone
else, it is to undermine and | 0:58:13 | 0:58:18 | |
question what they are saying to
make a point, this is a continuation | 0:58:18 | 0:58:22 | |
of politics by other means.
One-upmanship, then? Yes. So British | 0:58:22 | 0:58:28 | |
and Russian comedy differs
completely, there is no meeting of | 0:58:28 | 0:58:31 | |
minds? I do think that there is. You
are the meeting of the minds! | 0:58:31 | 0:58:34 | |
LAUGHTER
Isn't this what Twitter is for, to | 0:58:34 | 0:58:38 | |
do this sort of thing? Absolutely,
yes, absolutely, and politically, | 0:58:38 | 0:58:43 | |
the Russian Embassy is probably the
account that is doing the best in | 0:58:43 | 0:58:46 | |
terms of in terms of understanding
the Twitter trolling hive mind. The | 0:58:46 | 0:58:53 | |
Minister of defence Twitter account,
when it starts doing that, then it | 0:58:53 | 0:58:56 | |
really does become a war of words!
On that, we will have a different | 0:58:56 | 0:59:00 | |
war of words. | 0:59:00 | 0:59:02 |