27/10/2012 Dateline London

Welcome to Dateline London at. The worst crisis for the BBC in 50

years, six dandled over a presenter who died last year. A ceasefire in

Syria and the last lap of the US election - can knit Romney When?

Un-guests are Jake Addison, a Abdel Bari Atwan from Al Quds al Arabi,

Thomas Kielinger from Die Welt and Dame Ann Leslie from the Daily Mail.

In the 1970s and 1980s, Jimmy Savile was one of the most famous

people in Britain. Some of his programmes attracted 20 million

viewers. He died last year, but now his exposure as a serial paedophile

with an estimated 300 victims so far has shocked Britain. There are

questions for the BBC and for the police, who investigated but failed

to prosecute. How significant is this scandal for the way sex crimes

are now regarded for the BBC and other institutions? Dame Ann Leslie,

no one comes out of this with much credit, did they? No, in a way it

is a generational thing. I am old enough to have remembered the 1950s

very well. There is a wonderful two lines at the beginning of L P

Hartley's novel, the go-between. He said that the past is a foreign

country, they do things differently there. That sort of thing was going

on a great deal in the 1970s and 1980s, and I blame the 1960s, which

I enjoyed greatly. Because I was young and gorgeous, so that was

easy to enjoy. Everyone says you are still. I hope so. That was when

the whole sort of Swinging 60s, which at were only really happened

in the early 1970s, said sexual repression is almost the worst

crime. Do what makes you feel good. It is interesting that the National

Council for Civil Liberty, which is a human rights organisation,

actually endorsed paedophilia, because one of their affiliates was

the paedophile Exchange Forum. They argued in 1976 for lifting the

criminal status of incest. Also, if a sexual relationship between an

adult was mutual, then it shouldn't be criminalised. That was how that

came about. Do you think this has been something of a watershed

moment? The Metropolitan Police has been very clear this week they have

had so many people phoning up talking about things that were way

back in the past, as well as things that are current. In other words,

people who have kept quiet about things are not keeping quiet now.

This is exactly what was said, the past is a different country. They

have their own past now to live down, and they were not allowed in

some cases to speak, because they may have lost their job or would

have been accused of being prudish and what have you. So they're

coming out of the woodwork. I remember the same age myself, there

was a sort of trendy thing that everybody had to be with the new

kind of morals, which was lax. Permissive society was the slogan

book of -- slogan of the day, and you wanted to be part of that

emerging culture. Lots of these young girls, I don't want to put

any blame on the women now, but a great many of them threw themselves

at the feet of these celebrity TV people, and felt that they were

helping themselves to what was the trendy fashion. What you make of

this? Fundamentally we have to understand

one thing - the man was in to be defeated -- the man was a

paedophile. I appreciate what you're saying, but I do not think

this whole idea of, well, it was the time of those days, nobody

really took those things seriously. Whether the time allowed it or not,

it is wrong. The fact that one person used his position in the

public eye to be abusing children, let us understand, these were

children. At any time, 15, 13, 1415 year-olds, our children. As far as

we know, he was in his 40s when he abused these people, or when he

started abusing them. I read he even had a caravan going around the

country, and we know he lived in a very eccentric way, then a Rolls

Royce, so he had a very systematic organisation in place, with people

supporting income as well. We know that some celebrities will be

investigated, as well. Abdel Bari Atwan, the BBC has come

in for criticism this week because there has been a programme that was

commissioned and then abandoned, and ITV, several months later,

transmitted a programme based on the same kind of basic research.

But the BBC come out of this very badly, given that the BBC is

supposed to be in the business of exposing people for wrong doing?

Definitely, it was a huge setback for the BBC. We look at the BBC as

having a special standard of professionalism. It is the deadline

for many people inside this country and and side, the BBC is a big

brand when it comes to objectivity, when it comes to professionalism.

To suppress a film like this, a very well-known programme like

Newsnight, for example, it was shocking. What amazed me, when I

first came to this country in 1978, I was addicted to Jimmy Savile

programmes. I thought he was the kindest person on earth.

He was so creepy! I thought he was fulfilling the

wishes of children. What amazed me, you know, 40 years of working in

this building and nobody noticed. Nobody noticed that there is

something wrong with this man, week after week. I am really shocked.

What I am getting really uneasy about is the hysterical witch-hunt

atmosphere on the BBC. The BBC, as we all know, being a huge and very

bureaucratic organisation, has made endless mistakes in its time. But

the BBC is not the main it sinner. Of course, the mean that some of

his methods -- mercifully rotting in his grave. -- the main sinner is

mercifully rotting. What about a St Helens and Whiston in Broadmoor

hospital, but is for the criminally insane, he was seeking out

vulnerable people. In stock mandible, you know, hospitals have

a statutory duty of care. The BBC doesn't come in the sense of a star

and a dressing room, you do not have a statutory... That does not

let them off the hook. What is more serious, I think, is

the NHS alone in this man, simply because they could see money coming

from him, and they did not notice... But it wasn't just... Abdel Bari

Atwan coming from Palestine suddenly saw this man on TV, but it

was millions of people, the Catholic Church, he was a papal

knight, and that may be removed, it was the monarchy, he was a night of

the realm, it was the political classes, the BBC - everybody fell

for him in one way or another. He did and the nation, it has been

said, and that is absolutely the case. -- he can run to the nation.

One person said, how can this man who did so much good, also do so

much evil? Because of all the which he did for charity and because he

was doing such popular programmes on TV, Top Of The Pops and Jim'll

Fix It, because of his popularity on TV nobody could have imagined he

was doing all this evil behind-the- scenes.

A but it was a Jekyll-and-Hyde phenomenon with him.

The idea of a paedophile is some find monster, a stranger. Most

paedophiles are amongst neighbours, friends and relatives.

Peter Rippon, the editor of Newsnight, said there was a

division between two camps in Newsnight, one supporting screening

the film about income other people said no. What amazed me is that he

said the police investigated and dropped the investigation simply

because he was for real and very old. -- because he was frail and

old. They did not feel they had the evidence.

I actually sympathise with that, because at that stage, when the

police were investigating, even if they found somebody who said I was

abused by him, would you give evidence in court? No, no. So, in a

way, the CPS said lack of evidence, not a lack of rumours.

Maybe there is another way, they could have said if we have not got

enough evidence to prosecute, perhaps Social Services...

But the fact that the victims happily now, it shows the shocking

nature of how the theme of this person deterred everyone from

coming clean and blowing the whistle on him.

Somebody who was a great close friend of my family's abused me,

and because my parents spent time in the sub-continent. He was a nice

old gent, dirty as hell, obviously, and we'd all had to sit and listen

to the Goon Show, and I always had to sit on his lap, and I knew that

things were going on. But I did not report him to anyone, because apart

from being a bit pair of the, -- a bit of a pervert, I did not think

that was worth it, for someone that would really be an abuse thing now.

I just thought he was a dirty old man. We are different.

We have got to understand one thing - a lot of the time when children

report family members or when a person outside the family has done

something wrong to them, sexual abuse or another kind of abuse,

they do not listen to them. They do not believe them. Secondly, we have

been here before, remember the phone hacking scandal? The CPS said

there was no evidence for them to proceed. The police said there was

nothing to investigate. I've just like to say, this is very

dangerous, because now the general impression is that every male adult,

especially of the male adult star, is a latent paedophile. We already

have things like Criminal Records Bureaus going into things like

people not being able to photograph their own children's nativity play,

school sports and that kind of thing, and I think we are damaging

our society if we'd are like this which is of Salem staff.

There was a conference in Syria this week that a ceasefire was to

be arranged to celebrate Eid. It may have held in some places,

but at least 150 dead, various human rights organisations are

saying. The mess continues. It is a mess, and it is very sad.

I was one of those who supported the ceasefire, hoping that it would

save the lives of 1,000 people, but unfortunately, as you mentioned,

150 people were killed. Still there are rates, in civilian areas, a car

bomb exploded in Damascus, many people were killed. We thought that

a ceasefire would encourage people to get together, to talk, to extend

this truce for a few days more, and make people realise that for the

first time they can relax about. No funerals. In Syria, every day there

are 150 funerals, which is very sad. I wanted the children to enjoy

themselves without any bombing during Eid, which is wholly for a

billion people all over the world. -- which is sacred. It was really,

really sad, and I was appalled by this. I wanted to ask you, Latheron,

we have seen the murder, the assassination of -- Lebanon, we

have seen the murder of the intelligence chief there, we have

seen what is happening in Syria clearly affecting Lebanon. It is

not only Lebanon, it is Jordan also, Turkey, Iraq, it is spreading

everywhere. Now Jordan discovered two cells of Al Qaeda or coming

from Syria to attack embassies and certain economic infrastructures.

And Turkey, Turkey is facing a huge problem, a sectarian problem. It is

a sick did -- secular country. In the back there is a huge division

between Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims, the border crossings are

out of Government control. It is a poisoned spreading all over the

territory. Today comeback to the term ceasefire.

For a ceasefire you have to have a unified command on the part of the

rebels that can answer to the terms enshrined in the ceasefire. The

problem I see in Syria is there is no unified nature are amongst the

various sections of fighters. You could almost say that among

President Assad's people, as well. Exactly, it is increasingly

difficult to identify anyone amongst the rebels are we really

want to support. Al Qaeda are coming in and using the

opportunity... Are in this programme we said there

is a third party, and this third party is uncontrollable. At least

the Government can control its troops. The Syrian free army, the

official army, they split from the official army so they are a little

bit desperate, but you have more than 7,000 of these radical Islamic

organisation members, Al Qaeda included, and nobody controls them.

They are completely independent. Another organisation, an offshoot

of Al Qaeda, declared from the first minute that we're not going

to commit ourselves to a ceasefire. Normax ceasefire with his brutal

regime. That is the problem. This third party is uncontrollable.

That is why we have to keep out of The Yugoslav civil war was a joke

at the time. They used to use the ceasefire to have a bit of rest and

recuperation. I never had any faith in it. Unfortunately, I agree with

everything he says. We have been fighting each other for 15 years.

don't think it will work at all. The Assad regime is determined to

cause chaos in the country. Whenever it wants to beat the

rebels, it well. The Guardian reported that they painted army

vehicles blew to be able to pass us. In June, my fellow countrymen, Kofi

Annan, said a foreign minister told him that Syria would explode. We

have the Saudi Arabia, could heart and Turkey. The Alawite art in all

the countries in the regions. This is a huge geopolitical and

sectarian conflict. It is the attitude of the left in this

country that bothers me. How many times do you see demonstrations

about the Assad regime? Non. The most you ever see his those little

headlines. You know, this many people slaughtered today. It is as

if the left a said, it we do not do anything about it because America

and Israel are not directly involved. In Arbil words, if Arabs

are killing Arabs, what do you do. There is a patronising racism and

that which the left is guilty of. There's just about ten days of

campaigning left in the US presidential elections and the

opinion polls are too close to call, although one recent national poll

shows Romney ahead. So, can Mitt Romney pull off an amazing victory

and consign the Obama presidency to history? And what difference would

it make? Of course he can taxman -- ! Up to the voting day, all the

forecasters said so, Ronald Reagan was a neck and neck with his

challenger. It was until the last moment. But he won by a landslide.

I am not saying that Mitt Romney has in him to win a landslide, but

he has one thing going for him - a sense in America that the country

is in decline. Ronald Reagan also talked about American malaise, and

turned it around. Mitt Romney might just catch some swing voters, it

with his confidence that something will happen. The great thing that

Mitt Romney has got going their him is he is not Barack Obama. Whatever

you think, there will be a lot of people who are fed up with them.

But people are not listening to what he is sane. -- saying. He is

targeting the top 1%. He wants to reduce taxes, but what about the

middle-class? We have got to understand that America had been in

a hall, and this President has brought them out of the whole.

difference would a Mitt Romney presidency make? Obama came to

power promising change! They all come to power promising that. There

is an illusion that Obama won a landslide. He did not! He won by

52.7% of the vote, and John McCain lad. -- lacked. The trouble is, if

I were an American, I would probably good for Obama because

Romany has constantly flip-flopped. When he was governor of

Massachusetts, he signed off all sorts of liberal legislation. He

now denounces Obama's liberal legislation... In occluding health

care. -- including. Exactly. He went far right, to secure his base,

so you would never know actually what he would do as soon ruler. We

certainly sort of know what Obama would do. What would change if Mitt

Romney becomes President? A huge change. Mitt Romney is calling for

wars. He wants to support the Syrian rebels, for example. He will

support Israeli attacks against Iran. He is the closest support her

of the President of Israel. It will be another George Bush coming back.

This would be a disaster, not only for the United States, and a whole

world. Britain revealed in The Guardian that Obama asked to use

military bases, in case they want to attack Iran. Mitt Romney will

build on this. We do not know what he stands for. Absolutely not.

changes. The only ideology he has is to get into power. We have no

idea what you would do once he would get into power, apart from

protect his own taxes. Use all that he was agreeing with Obama on

almost every foreign policy position. I have Obama to blame,

because going into the first debate, he was well ahead in the polls. He

allowed Mitt Romney to come back into the game because he did not

take it very well. He said he took a long nap, as a joke, it so Obama

has himself to blame for what is happening. He should have blown it

Mitt Romney out by now in the polls. America does not work like

elections in the UK. The fact that the swing states will determine

elections is what makes it very interesting. Mitt Romney Is

bleeding in the national polls, but in the swing states... -- Mitt