Browse content similar to 03/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Cathedral to mark the occasion. I will be back at the top of the | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
hour. Now on BBC News it's Date LINE LONDON. | :00:00. | :00:22. | |
Hello and welcome to Dateline London. How the past bedevils the | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
present ` in Ukraine its tortuous history with Russia leads to even | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
more violence. And in Northern Ireland, the murder | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
of a mother of ten children in 1972 casts a shadow over the continuing | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
search for a lasting peace. Plus, will the European elections be | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
a continent`wide opportunity for protest votes? | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
My guests today are Richard Sakwa of the University of Kent, who's | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
writing a book about Ukraine, Agnes Poirier of Marianne, Brian | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
O'Connell, who is an Irish writer and broadcaster, and Steve Richards | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
of The Independent. Ukraine first, and the violence | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
continues amid the Kiev government's insistence it is cracking down on | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
terrorists. In the east of the country, pro`Russian groups seize | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
control of government buildings and resist Kiev's forces as best they | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
can. Are we stumbling towards a much wider and potentially catastrophic | :01:10. | :01:18. | |
conflict? What is your analysis of the situation? It is exceptionally | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
dangerous. I think we need to be careful about the language we use | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
because we are talking about pro`Russian separatists. In many | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
ways, they have got a different concept of what being Ukraine means. | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
There is probably Russian involvement but on its own that | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
would not be enough. There is genuine anger and concern. We need | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
to think about how we can broaden the consensus and include every part | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
of the country into an inclusive constitutional process. Everybody | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
saw the violence and some of it was pretty horrendous, but I was amazed | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
by the mass of people out on the streets. That plays into your | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
thoughts that there is certainly a genuine feeling of resentment at | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
some of the things going on in Kiev. Absolutely. They are very much | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
Ukrainian, but they have got a very different vision of Ukraine. They | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
fear is that their idea is being hijacked. The provisional government | :02:27. | :02:35. | |
is overwhelmingly composed of people from the West. Do you think that the | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
elections later this month will help solve things or make things worse? | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
At the moment it is touch and go. If the violence continues, but on the | :02:48. | :02:57. | |
other hand, the candidates don't really have a solution. The leading | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
candidate is an oligarch of the old mould. The old style politics of | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
what is called a democracy of oligarchs which has dominated for so | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
long will not be broken and that is why there is so much concern in the | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
East and the South. When Richard talks about it, the more | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
sophisticated analysis, it is not really borne out in a lot of | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
journalistic coverage because it tends to be you are either | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
pro`Russian or pro`West. It is much more, located. It is. It is not just | :03:31. | :03:39. | |
that people in eastern Ukraine are pro`Russian and everybody else looks | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
towards the West. If you look at the background to it, the European | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
Union's terms of association that frightened Russia and said, we are | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
getting closer and closer to the European Union and so on, Angela | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
Merkel and Barack Obama have switched the trigger at which the | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
next layer of sanctions are going to take place from invasion back to, if | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
we can't hold a successful presidential election. They have | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
brought that back. But what it seems to do is highlight the inability of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
the European Union or the West in general to know exactly how to deal | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
with this. If you listen to Angela Merkel and Barack Obama this week, | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
though one thought that kept coming up in my head is that these are two | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
people who can't even agree on whether to spy on each other. In | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
terms of a common front against Russia, it is going to be difficult | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
to impose. Absolutely. I am fascinated by the language and the | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
semantics. You are listening to news bulletins and you have to listen | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
very carefully. We do not know who they are talking about. You hear | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
about pro Kiev forces. Now that Ukraine is just Kiev. We hear about | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
rebels but who are you talking about? Russian mercenaries, | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
Ukrainian forces? And terrorists, the word which is used repeatedly. | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
Freedom fighters or terrorists? And then of course, there is a risk of | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
losing the plot if you are just looking at what is going on in a | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
certain city in Ukraine. The burly and wall fell a quarter of a century | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
ago. `` early in. There was a very good piece in the New York Times | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
about that. For decades there was this formidable is `` force. We | :05:41. | :05:50. | |
perhaps treated Russia as a defeated power but on the other hand Europe | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
was never going to look towards Russia, it was going to keep the | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
Atlantic alliances. And Eastern European countries like Poland, when | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
looking towards Europe, there was no way we were going to ignore Eastern | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
European countries. Ukraine, who wants to be part... Even in Russia | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
itself, there has always been the Western looking people in Russia. | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
But Vladimir Putin has this ambition of having a counter European or Euro | :06:31. | :06:39. | |
Asian communities. And there is talk of neo` Bolshevism in that semantics | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
and perhaps the murkier it is, the better for Vladimir Putin, because | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
we don't know what is going on. How do you want Angela Merkel and Barack | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
Obama to agree? You could say that Vladimir Putin is not playing a | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
great hand but with great skill. In terms of the economy and the way | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
Russia is organised, he is playing very skilfully. He is, although, if | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
you think about it, when you said it is hard to imagine Germany and the | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
United States working together, even if there was not that kind of layer | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
of tension because of the spy story, I don't see what they agreed | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
to do in this situation. We step back and say, is Vladimir Putin | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
paying a blinder `` isn't he playing a blinder. But I am not sure what | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
they do. I can't think of a route through this in the short`term in | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
terms of intervening. There was a diplomat on the BBC this morning who | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
said that all the are dire but the least worse is to sustain some kind | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
of dialogue with Vladimir Putin and I think that is right. But I don't | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
think there is any straightforward solution, even if Barack Obama and | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Angela Merkel and EU representatives all get on like a house on fire. Is | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
it done more to restrain Kiev from taking the action they have done in | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
the last few days? An outbreak of common sense. How do you get there? | :08:21. | :08:29. | |
As always, you have got to think how we got here in the first place. | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
Since the end of the Cold War, 25 years ago, we have failed to build | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
an inclusive peace order after the end of the Cold War which could | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
sustain and bring Russia, above all. That was the big challenge facing | :08:47. | :08:55. | |
the European Union. In other words, multiple centres including Turkey | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
and Russia. It has been a catastrophic failure. The | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
association over the last year or so was the European Union trying to | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
play geopolitics and it is not do that very well. It has been a huge | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
failure of leadership. We need to do what Russia has been calling for | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
since the Eastern partnership, which is trilateral talks, a larger piece | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
for the European Union, a whole continent to establish a new system | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
that peace Congress, which did not take place at the end of the Cold | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
War. That dialogue has got to include the Ukrainians and | :09:33. | :09:40. | |
suchlike, within a larger umbrella. Even these so`called separatists, it | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
is a misnomer because they want to stay. But they want a different | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
vision of what Ukraine means. We will come back to that in a moment. | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
The arrest of the leader of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, in connection | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
with the investigation into the murder of Jean McConville has raised | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
all kinds of ghosts from the past. Mrs McConville was a widow and | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
mother of ten murdered by the IRA in 1972. Sinn Fein said the arrest had | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
a political dimension, coming ahead of the European and local elections | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
in Ireland. Should historic crimes continue to be investigated or, in | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
the interests of the present and future, should we ever be prepared | :10:16. | :10:25. | |
to forget past atrocities? In terms of atrocities, this is serious. It | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
is strange that we have just been talking about failures to build | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
inclusive structures. In the case of Northern Ireland, it is the | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
inability to deal with the past as we move forward through this piece, | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
political process. There is no mechanism there. People have talked | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
about amnesties, reconciliation commissions, but there is nothing | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
there. When this pops out of the blue, there is no official mechanism | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
for with it so you end up with the ridiculous position where you have | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
the Deputy First Minister of the power`sharing administration saying | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
that there is a dark side to the police force but he is the guy who | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
signed up to this. We went through the reform of the Royal Ulster | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
Constabulary, the previous policing arrangements in Northern Ireland. | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
New policing arrangements were put in place. Now the police service in | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
Northern Ireland is a devolved power. Martin McGuinness is | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
partially responsible for that policing service. Is he now saying | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
that he does not trust it? David Cameron was very clear that there is | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
no politics involved in this. On the other hand, this is a murder that | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
took place 40 or so years ago and suddenly, a couple of weeks before | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
European local elections in Ireland where Sinn Fein have very big | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
ambitions in the Republic of Ireland as well, suddenly their leader is | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
arrested. I have no idea whether it is connected with the current | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
political campaign but to answer your original deep, profound | :12:14. | :12:15. | |
question about whether the past should overwhelm the present `` | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
present and the future, it is very clear to me that it should not. The | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
whole way that police `` peace process involved is that quite | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
blatant wiping of past misdeeds, I am haunted by the image of what | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
happened to this mother. I can't get it out of my mind. It is appalling. | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
However, all kinds of appalling things went on and John Major, Tony | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
Blair, everyone involved in this peace process, decided to park some | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
of this. There is no institutional mechanism to deal with this but I | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
can tell you, politically, the way to deal with it is you do have two | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
ignore some of these past things or else the future is going to be | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
wrecked. You can't have it both ways. If you ignore Republican Mr | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
Minas and crimes in the past and Jean McConville incident, you also | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
have two ignore what the British army did, bloody Sunday, the killing | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
of civilians. You have to be evenhanded about this and several | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
former Northern Ireland secretaries, Peter Hain, and all these people | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
have said this. You can't have an amnesty for one site without the | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
other. Peter Hain, I talked to him this week, he said he's not in | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
favour of an amnesty, but he says we have to have a mechanism. There has | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
to be some mechanism to reconcile people to the past. How would you do | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
that is a very congregated question. Please is about making peace with | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
the enemy but also making peace within yourself. It is an internal | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
community case rather than the occupation or the army. It is | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
political, obviously, but it is also psychological and it is not going to | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
go away. People are still afraid. As long as the fear is there, it is | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
something that they can't just brushed under the carpet. They have | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
got to deal with it, but it is really for the community to do it. | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
And also, I would not be so worried about Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein is a | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
formidable, ruthless machine. They realise they have two deal with it. | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
They are trying to control the agenda, although Gerry Adams did not | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
know he would be interrogated for such a long time. But they can gain | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
a lot from it, the European elections. How do we get to eat | :15:05. | :15:13. | |
Greece process to overcome the past `` a peace process? It is out of | :15:14. | :15:21. | |
these things that new conflicts are born. This is very much what has | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
been happening, for example, in Lithuania, within Poland itself, | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
they simply keep saying, we cannot establish civilised relationships | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
with Russia. They keep looking at the past. The past is dreadful. My | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
father was nearly involved. Your family is Polish. The question of | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
victimhood in Northern Ireland or in the Israel`Palestine conflict, you | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
have got people on the Prost inside, the Catholic side, and people all | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
over Britain who have seen the Birmingham bombings. People have got | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
a sense of victimhood. My question is whether it would be adequate for | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
those who committed offences to be told there is no amnesty but you | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
have to plead guilty and tell us what you have done, you have to give | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
the families that degree of closure. Would anyone except that? Indeed. | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
They have to have this sense of closure and a sense justice has been | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
done. You can in the build peace without justice. But the definition | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
of this justice also has to include the concept of forgiveness and | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
understanding the historical situation because clearly the | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
relationship between Ireland and Britain has been a complex one for | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
so many years. As you say, multiple victimhoods but the thing is to ` | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
the logic of victimhood, that's what we have failed to do in some degree | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
in Northern Ireland and more Broadley in Europe. As you know from | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
going to Belfast now, compared to 15 years ago say, it's like a different | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
planet. It's not just the Queen visiting Ireland and the Irish | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
President coming here but things have changed superficially, at | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
least, completely. Things have changed phenomenally in Northern | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
Ireland as you know from your time there as well as a correspondent. | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
People still need to be able to come to terms with it, to see whatever | :17:18. | :17:27. | |
kind of, to use the awful cliche closure, and you talk about people | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
coming to court and maybe not serving prison sentences and so on, | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
we had some of that around the time of the Good Friday Agreement. When | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
we came to Peter Hain's Bill, if you remember for the on the runs, people | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
still out there that police may or may not wanted for questioning, it | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
had to be withdrawn from parliament because they couldn't get agreement | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
on who and what and when and where. The Sinn Fein machine that you are | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
talking about, south of the border in the Republic of Ireland, is | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
growing immensely but it's not ` most of the people, if you look at | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
the candidates, for example, who are standing for election to the | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
European Parliament in the Republic of Ireland, most weren't around when | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
Jean McConville was abducted and what Sinn Fein is Garnering votes | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
for there is the way in which they're dealing with austerity, | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
economic issues and recession, not Northern Ireland at all. That brings | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
us on to our final section. The European Union was invented to | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
heal the wounds of the past and ensure there would never again be | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
another major European war. Beyond that brave ideal ` all across the | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
continent there is discontent over economic problems, austerity, and | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
the EU bureaucracy. Will that be reflected in the European elections | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
this month by a wave of protest votes ` including a big victory in | :18:44. | :18:55. | |
Britain for UKIP? People need to go and vote, that's | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
the solution because otherwise people who intend to vote for their | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
protest parties are going to win the argument and that would be | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
catastrophic. If you look at the turnout, the expected turnout it's | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
so low. It's terrible. Can I justice play the obvious card, which is | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
people over Britain are thinking why should I bother? Some people will be | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
really interested and will vote for which ever party, but a lot of | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
people think it's absolutely nothing to do with me. Well, there was this | :19:29. | :19:39. | |
great absent ` during the Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage debate, they never | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
talked about Europe. We have been in peace 70 years. It's a miracle, we | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
have a short`term memory, let's have the last 400 years, when did this | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
last happen? And why do a lot of countries, I mean the enlargement | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
was not imposed, people wanted to be part of the union. | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
And I think that's for this same reason. So, you know, we are | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
Europeans and we should all be pro`Europeans because my generation, | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
your generation have lived in peace. Then you have this 27 countries | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
working together. It's extraordinary. Of course there are | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
plenty of things, for instance, a lot of re reform, I think a few | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
parties want the President of the Commission to be elected at the ` or | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
at least elected, not appointed. There are many democratic reforms we | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
could do and we should do. Then we all need to be together rather than | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
just leave the table. Your scepticism is not merely a British | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
phenomenon as you know, do you see a big win for UKIP and other | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
effectively protest parties? I assume the polls are right and UKIP | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
in Britain will get more votes than any of the other parties which will | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
be an extraordinary moment and the Conservatives will probably come | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
third which will trigger a panic in the Conservative Party. That will be | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
the immediate consequence, I suspect. But obviously there are | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
deeper issues, as well. The level of discontent in Britain and elsewhere | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
is such that it's a gift for parties that are not seen as part of the | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
political establishment. It's all irrationale, frankly. The reason why | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
there is totally understandable insecurity in 2008 there was a | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
financial crash which had very little to do with the European Union | :21:46. | :21:56. | |
at all. I don't even hear Nigel Farage blaming it. It feeds into the | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
political volatility around Europe. UKIP will be the beneficiary. The | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
question is for how long? The credibility of political parties | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
gives them durability. Actually when you look at their policies, when you | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
look at some of the individuals who are quite prominent beyond their | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
leader, the question of credibility comes very quickly to the top. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Richard, you talked about, I suppose, Europe is unfinished | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
business historically. We haven't really reached a settlement after 25 | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
years after the Cold War. Do you see that this discontent, the fact that | :22:34. | :22:44. | |
there is Euroscept sichl in every `` Euroscepticism in every country? | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
What's been missing is the vision thing. The European Union has | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
developed by policy spillover, but what is needed is to revamp it, to | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
have a sense of what I would call a continental vision that Europe can | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
take control of its own test knee `` destiny. But what we have done is | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
lacked that vision to establish it and instead of which we have had two | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
things. On the one side, members have used that to continue old | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
historical rivalries, using the European Union for its opposite, | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
it's become a revenge project. The second thing is that you have this | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
overlay. The European Union yes, a fantastic idea of spreading forward | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
good governance and against corruption and excellent public | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
goods. However, NATO also perhaps a fine thing but the two are separate. | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
What's happened now is they've become overlain and mismatched and | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
people are using the European Union ` and as far as Moscow, don't forget | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
Putin came to power in 2,000 as the most pro`European leader Russia has | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
ever had and we can trace the process of ` well, of | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
disillusionment and step by step, the Munich conference in 2,000 to | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
make him now say there is nothing to lose, you don't respect me, you | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
exclude us. Yes. NATO's borders have moved and that's not the same as you | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
made clear. But it's a source of resentment. And a sense that the | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
European Union is the foregrounder of NATO enlargement. Whether it's | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
justified is not the issue, it's perceived to be. Therefore it is so. | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
In terms of a bigger picture, you mentioned Sinn Fein, they will do | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
well in these elections, won't they? Probably. The problem is that if you | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
look overall at France, at Finland, Britain and UKIP, you end up with a | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
large chunk of the new European Parliament after the end of this | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
month with a big self`hating block and you can't actually move forward | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
while you have this because to Steve's point, if you scratch below | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
the surface with UKIP they're a party of protest. They don't have | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
the policies. When you see Nigel Farage debating with Nick Clegg all | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
you are debating about is more Europe, less Europe and immigration. | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
You are not actually debating about how people get a mortgage, what are | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
you going to do with the financials services sector, the basic stuff | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
that people want to hear about. The longer this goes on, the larger that | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
self`hating block becomes in the European Parliament, the less | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
effective Europe can be in everyday life, so turnout will probably go | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
down. I wish we had more time. That's it for this week. We are back | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
next week at the same time. You can comment on the programme at Twitter. | :26:05. | :26:05. | |
Thank you for watching and goodbye. Hello. Mixed fortunes through this | :26:06. | :26:38. | |
bank holiday weekend. There will be cloud and rain at times across | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
northern parts of the UK, however for some of us it will stay dry and | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
fine with plenty of sunshine. There is sunshine to be out there through | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
today. A good day for a walk in the woods. The best of the sunshine so | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
far has been through the central swathe of England, parts of eastern | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
Scotland too. This is | :26:57. | :26:58. |