10/05/2014 Dateline London

Hello and welcome to Dateline London. The world wakes up to the

kidnapping of more than 200 Nigerian girls, so what can be done?

Putin's triumphant arrival in Crimea.

And Syrian rebels pull out of the centre of Homs. What does it mean

for this endless and catastrophic war?

My guests today are Vincent Magombe, of Africa Inform International,

Irena Teranyuk, of BBC Global News, Abdel Bari Atwan, who is an Arab

writer, and David Aaronovitch, of The Times.

It has taken more than three weeks, but finally, the Nigerian government

and and the rest of the world has woken up to the horrific kidnapping

of more than 200 girls by the extreme Islamist gunmen of Boko

Haram. What can be done about Boko Haram and, in talking of selling

young women into slavery, who do they think they are appealing to?

What say what kind of movement are they? I think originally we thought

we and Al`Qaeda tape of movement. But they seem to know becoming more

notorious, in terms of the extremity of what they are doing. They had

some support in the political frame in northern Nigeria, but we are no

seeing that has ebbed away. I do not think they have any support at all.

If anyone has any brains, it is high time they thought very hard about

trying to do the right thing. They have to release these children. I

lay fighting children, are they fighting governments? When we talk

about Islamic extremists, are the associated with other groups in

terms of the way the act? In the course of the war, at the very

beginning, they were seen by many people, many rebel groups sprang up

to fight the president, it started a long time ago, the original rebel

group has lost its way. Talking about the Americans and Boko Haram,

when we see Americans now going into Nigeria and doing a very critical

job to help arrest Boko Haram suspects, we wonder where the

international community has been? That really, we have had two years

now the Americans using special forces. I wonder whether we have a

plan right now. I get a lot of e`mails from people and a lot of

people are saying, we're as the world media been? The president only

confirmed the couple of days ago that this attack happened. That is

when the abduction of the hundreds of schoolgirls became global news.

The president seems to have run out of luck, but on the other hand,

maybe know that there are British and American experts there talking

about it, though that he is asking the American military to send Jones

to locate the girls, we still do not know where they are, in a forest in

the north of the country, 200 children and a continent which no

givers jailed soldiers is now giving us child slaves, child's grades. It

is horrific. The first Lady making that radio speech instead of her

husband, she was seeing, the girls in the future, the education

matters. We simply cannot allow this to happen. It is interesting because

we heard about the campaign in Afghanistan from the little girl who

was shot by the Taliban, there is this belief that education is very

important for schoolgirls. Yes, but this group have nothing to really do

with Islam. They are damaging the Islamic image. They have put out a

very strong statement condemning them. They are doing this, I

believe, because they are extremists and having followed Al`Qaeda for 20

years, they have never engaged in this sort of activity. I believe

those people are unique and they are doing this simply for publicity. We

have to remember they are functioning and a very dangerous

area. There are a lot of very unstable states around the. You can

see VR also able to move freely in these places. Why has there not

being any interest, people do not want to talk about that part of the

world. In Libya, who is talking about the abduction of diplomats?

What they have done will be rejected by the vast majority of Muslims, but

the likes of the Taliban have taken a very strong line against women

being educated. It is not confined to Africa. People will see it as a

minority, but it does with exist within Islam, this wish that women

do not get an education. About 50 years ago, there was a huge drive

against women being educated, but these people disappeared. We are

noticing it happening again, and parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

These people are not against education, it is to do with Western

education. They did not want them educated in a Western way. For this

year, there are 1500 people killed by Boko Haram. They find the right

environment. Weapons are available because of the unstable situations

in neighbouring countries. So they have decided to kidnap the

schoolgirls because it was an easy target and for the publicity. The

French government are putting 3000 troops into the region. It has been

very slow for the West to react to what is going on. Why the West? We

share this planet. It is amazing finally accept and criticise the

likes of the American leadership and yet China became the largest economy

recently and Russia seems to have a fair bit of free publicity, but

nobody with ever think of any of these countries to contribute to the

situation in Nigeria. It is partially about values, partially

about capacity. It is an important point. When we talk globally, it is

one of the things that we have to take into consideration. Secondly,

we do not know where the schoolgirls are, but we do know that Boko Haram

killed 200 people a week ago. The Cayman in tactical vehicles, I do

not want to sound like some crazed warrior, but they are capable of

being intercepted by drones. The third point is, one of the reasons

why people knew late about this, Nigeria is a very big state itself,

which contributes significant forces to African peacekeeping nations. It

is not that isolated. The Nigerian government have been very slow. It

is incredible that we have been hearing news that Nigeria is one of

the biggest economies in Africa. They also contribute a lot of

military and help other nations training academies. But I think, for

me, it is more to do with the political fabric and infrastructure,

that defines what the Army can do. Like many African countries, it is

come out of a field political system. Very corrupt. Though it is

not a dictatorship, a military dictatorship, but you see little

sense and how the politicians are reacting. Part of the problem in

northern Nigeria is because of the like of shaving of the wealth to the

people. One of the best we've fought this to get the support of the

people by northern Nigeria by sharing the wealth of the whole

country with them. Russian's president Vladimir Putin

now says that pro`Russian activists in Ukraine should not hold

referendums and we should all wait for the Ukrainian presidential

election at the end of this month. He also claims to have pulled back

some Russian forces from the border, but then staged a theatrical visit

to Crimea, roundly condemned as provocative in the West. What is he

playing at? Those victory parades in Moscow yesterday. They had big

echoes of 20 years ago. I wanted to send a word of caution, when people

were saying that he had performed a U`turn over elections. He

legitimises them and sees them as a way forward for Ukraine. Vladimir

Putin It's not for turning. By doing the triumphant displays in Moscow.

11,000 troops, rocket launchers in red Square. It is scary. It was the

worst excesses of the Cold War. And then he goes to newly annexed

Crimea, which he claims was returned to the Russian state after unfair

grabbing by Ukraine. There he was selected and paraded by the Russian

fleet and it was such, you may call it, a troubled mind, wanting these

assets of power, these attributes of power. He rides a huge wave of self

patriotism. There is nothing more of a winning formula. You lived in

Moscow for a while? I did not meet Vladimir Putin. I understand where

he is coming from. It is about power. I have got to compare him to

the President of Uganda. These types of people, he may be sitting on a

very progressive economy, but in terms of politics, they are

dangerous people. They are absolute monarchists or whatever you want to

call it. They live by power. I think that is what we are seeing. As we go

on, I do not think even these people joining up, the Russian people

themselves, will take it for very long before they say, the economy is

going well, but we do not want democracy. There is a huge problem

when you have been in power for a long time, by the time his term runs

out he will have been in power for 20 years. There is not anybody in a

mature democracy who gets to be in power for 20 years without a

problem, being surrounded by people who say yes to them, who reflect

things back to them, and also a sense of one's complete

indispensability. Sure, flood your Putin has got Crimea, and that is a

big blow for us, because we could guarantee nothing. `` Vladimir

Putin. But the image that he has been incredibly clever, I think he

has not been the master of events at all. I think events in Ukraine have

gone on without him and represent a considerable amount of danger. We

look at what has happened. We like to think the Russians are hugely

involved, but there is also evidence that people are out of control in

East Ukraine, who could be responsible for massacres,

slaughters, something like that. He does not want that, either as part

of his empire ought to be held responsible for it. It is no

accident, he says he wants credit for being in Crimea but let us have

an election in Ukraine. He might not be in control of events but in the

past year he has been having quite a big say in Syria and now Crimea. He

is in the driving seat in the Middle East and Europe. I believe he wants

time to swallow Crimea, to digester it. If he is turning to pragmatism I

think that is justified. `` digest it. Maybe the situation in Ukraine

is out of his hands, they will go ahead with the referendum. We have

to remember, the sanctions will start to bite, the Russian economy

starts to suffer, the number of deaths is going up. A man like him,

who stayed in power for 20 years, definitely, he will use the tactic

used in Syria, when he managed to outmanoeuvre many people

step`by`step. He has got this huge prize. Difference is the Syrian

president never escaped to another country, but the tactics are the

same. I think he let the genie out of the bottle, separatism, in

eastern Ukraine, and he cannot control it. The local thugs who are

terrorising local population cannot control it either. His biggest fear

has been to stop Ukraine integrating. That he has succeeded

in, but Ukraine has the support of the West, and with the eastern

regions without them, it will slowly have to get closer to Europe to get

rid of this rampant corruption that has been blighting Ukraine for years

and led to them feeling disenfranchised. I want to move on

to Syria, because rebel fighters in homes have pulled out of the centre

of the city. `` Homs. Opposition fighters said the deal was agreed

with between Iranian, are we seeing further evidence that this proxy war

can only be ended by the outsiders? It definitely is a proxy war between

Russia and the United States and Iran. That is the situation,

summarised in Syria. As for what happened in Homs, that was actually

a boost for the president. He goes into an election in two weeks, he

will definitely win because it is not a democracy. I wonder what sort

of swing he will get. I think 99%. No question about that. I believe

now this Homs victory is shaking many people in the region. The

government called for urgent meetings, the Friends of Syria are

holding a meeting in London to deal with the situation. What happened,

exactly, after two years of siege of about 1500 people in the heart of

Homs, they had to give up. The Iranian intervened because they had

hostages. They were also near to towns under siege from the rebels.

The Iranian are a major player in Syria, they have boosted support for

the president, who has the upper hand. He is gaining advantages on

the battlefields and several areas. The Russians are also backing him.

It is the Americans who are retreating, they don't want to

interfere. The head of the Syrian opposition was in Washington and

still is, he is asking for advanced weapons. The Americans are worried

that an advanced weapon could fall into the hands of Al`Qaeda. I cannot

see the situation improving in the coming years. It is almost as if

outsiders are prepared to fight. I don't see America involved at all in

any kind of meaningful way apart from occasionally talking. I take

the point about the Iranian and Saudi Arabians, because it is

impossible Syrians could come to an agreement by themselves. They

require interlocutors to deal with these minor points. If you ask me

frankly, I cannot for the life of me tell you what will be the situation

in Syria in five years. I cannot tell you whether they will settle

down as they did under the President's father. It seems very

unlikely to me that they can go back to the status quo, and therefore

what you're looking at is 10`20 years of instability. Spilling out.

Yes, continually, into Lebanon, Iraq, possibly Turkey. The one great

advantage from the point of view of discussions of the Middle East is it

has made any discussion of what happens between the Israelis and

Palestinians seem redundant. I don't think that is an advantage but it is

there. I want to cry for Syria, because when it started, it was a

pro`democracy movement. What does that tell us in Africa? We are

trying to struggle for democracy. In Uganda, there are two debates

saying, should we use violence, and the other, airships political

parties, they say we should use peaceful means. I think it is right

that the people of Syria found that it was ethical to overthrow him

without force, but now it has degenerated into a civil conflict

which could be a civil war. Perhaps it is now. It is. As I say, in

Africa, it is something we have to study very carefully. The methods of

how you overthrow a person like this. On one hand you do not want to

degenerate into a civil conflict. In Uganda we have fought war against

India means `` Idi Amin. The Americans, this year, they said in

2014 there will be a war. I seem to be part of this whole thing. I think

Syria, this bloody mess that Syria has become over the last three years

shows the fragility of any world order, just like Ukraine, Crimea

show the fragility of old and new Europe. Also, how many complicated

issues and get totally out of control because you have proxy

interests, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, China. They constantly block

any attempts to adopt a security resolution. Now that China has

stopped supporting Russia after Ukraine, maybe there is hope of some

movement on Syria. Thank you very much. That is it for this week. You

can comment on the programme on the Internet. We will be back at the

same time next week. Goodbye. The overnight rain beats a quick

retreat from much of the UK this morning, but even though brighter

skies have followed, there are showers. That is the rain heading

away but it is still hanging back across eastern part of Scotland, so

it is rather cool, cloudy and damp. For the rest of us, showers,

blustery, and a