02/08/2014 Dateline London

firepower to win the military battle against Hamas, as it lost the battle

for international support? Does that matter?

Russia appears unimpressed with further Western sanctions and in an

otherwise grim Newsweek, does the prospect of a driverless car cheered

you up? In the 1960s and 1970s Israel had

the reputation in many western countries as a plucky nation

of settlers who made the desert and democracy bloom in hostile soil,

attracting Jewish and many non` Jewish volunteers from around the

world to work on kibbutzes. Now, with nightly news reports showing

hundreds upon hundreds of dead Palestinian civilians, including

many women and children, in Gaza, how far is Israel's image now one

of a regional bully? How far is this an excuse

for anti`semitism? And how far will it result

in new pressures when they are engaged in military

activity there is a reaction across the world, which often criticises

them for the image is a reaction across the world, which often

criticises them for the images seen operation it has actually been the

case that many world leaders have stood behind Israel's right to

defend itself against what is essentially a jihadi threats coming

out of Gaza. I think that has been played out across the world, maybe a

greater appreciation the fact that Hamas ribs `` represents a local

branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. This seems to be this growing

realisation among the leadership of the world that Israel may have a

justified case here. In terms of people around the world,

people who have expressed opinions, there is one interesting example of

who are the world 's greatest troublemakers? Israel now comes near

the bottom of the list. Whatever the official line is from many

governments, that is the way many people, particularly in Europe,

feel. There is an old saying that Israel

is not part of the problem, it is part of the solution. I think that

is generally the mood in Israel. They are on the front line in this

battle against Paddy 's. They are not just fighting beat terror

rockets that came out of Gaza, put there by Hamas, but Israel has also

discovered during this engagement is that there are terror tunnels

underneath the border going into and near Israeli villages. Really, what

they're hoping, is that the world will think about how it would be if

they looks out on to their own gardens and imagined jihadis coming

out of a tunnel in their own village, kidnapping children,

killing families, as we saw them do with the family on the West Bank not

that long ago. We have seen inside these tunnels with the information

revealing that there is chloroform and anaesthetic in there for the

people they have kidnapped. We have seen it happen with the potential

capture of an Israeli soldier. You worked with the UN in helping

Palestinian refugees in dire situations. Do you accept that Hamas

does not do the Palestinian cause any favours by the use of rockets

and by some of the activities that some of their supporters invasion?

According to the information available, the vast majority of

Palestinians inside Gaza do not necessarily supports Hamas. Hamas is

a group, a Muslim client group, but the current war is not, as Jonathan

suggested, a war against jihadis. You have a couple of thousand of

Hamas members in Gaza but the people who are killed or children, women,

75%, according to the United Nations, are civilians. It is not

really a war, war is the wrong words to describe what is happening. This

is an aggression against any kind of solution. You cannot solve the

Palestinian problem in this way. The government finds itself in a trap of

its own making. It's a trap because they want out, they don't know how

to get out. There is nowhere to move `` no way to move forward. Israel

cannot win this war. The Palestinians cannot lose this war

because the Palestinians in Gaza are also in a trap. They have nowhere

else to go. Now Israel has decided to extend the buffer zone to three

kilometres around the strip. That makes the territorial 20% less than

it was originally. In this trip, you have 1,800,000 people living. Now

they have smaller geographic areas to live in. You have 4,500 people in

one square metre. That is the largest, the most dense population

on earth. This is going to be a lot more. I went to a kibbutz in 1982.

The day before I got there, the invasion of Lebanon started. For

people of my generation, we were the generation brought up in the

post`war error and have this rather idealised vision of pioneering

countries. I think the tragedy that began in 1982, which has been played

out so extremely now, is seeing this extraordinary leaders proportionate

response by Israel which is so negative in trying to find a

solution. I think the tragedy is, of course, Israel has a right to defend

itself and Israel is still a democracy, but this is so

disproportionate. They are committing these atrocities day

after day. It is also so self`defeating because they're doing

is up Hamas. A lot of the tunnels have been closed by Egypt. Ten mac

was a force which was much weaker and was struggling. All Israel has

done is strengthen them. They have elevated global opinion, alienating

Arab opinion and put off a solution. I think that is the real tragedy.

Stephanie? This is the deadliest most prolonged war in Gaza since

Israel withdrew in 2005. It has been a lettings utility for John Kerry,

Secretary of State, who over the past 18 months in his role has

thrown himself into crisis after crisis will stop he has achieved

very little in the way of breakthrough, except for perhaps the

Syria chemical weapons are caught. He made 100 phone calls trying to

broker a cease`fire and it is hard to see how that can resume `` how

peace talks can resume, given the capture of this Israeli soldier, or

potential capture of this Israeli soldier. I think, this time, the

conflict in Gaza is different to the one in 2009 or 2012. The region has

changed and the original power brokers have changed. Egypt has, is

loath to be seen to be helping Hamas because of its connections with the

Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas has gone under a leadership change of its

own, it has a younger leader. The previous leadership in Qatar which

punched above its weight in terms of mediating regional conflicts, that

has not changed. It is hard to see how this is going to play out.

has not changed. It is hard to see how this Looking at the way Israel

has conducted itself officially in the past week or two, I am struck by

something that the Israeli statesman said many years ago about the

Palestinians. Surely this applies to Israel now, you never miss an

opportunity to miss an opportunity. Hamas was weakened, as Ian has

rightly sad. It has very few Arab friends among Arab governments. What

a chance to make peace with a unified Palestinian leadership

Israel has buttoned it. I think that is a harsh suggestion that Israel

blew this. John Kerry's record in making peace in the Middle East has

not been exactly. If we look at picking apart some of what we have

just heard, Hamas is severely weakens now. It has an enormous

weapons by that have `` if weapons apply has been depleted. That's why

it... It was not we did enough to stop the thousands of rockets that

still entered into Israel. People sometimes feel that there is some

sort of disproportionality about what is going on now, which is

because most of those attacks on Israel are not reported because they

do not result in deaths. We see pictures of dead Palestinian

children. That is because Israel has spent millions investing in weapons

defence systems. With Islamist and Hadi opponents of Israel, as soon as

one method is mastered, they develop one method is mastered, they develop

another. These terror tunnels, the Telegraph said the other day that

they were developed... To think that jihadis could be literally coming

out of tunnels in people's villages and homes, kidnapping and torturing

people, a plan that they... Not talking about moral equivalence

Israeli soldiers blowing up Israeli soldiers blowing up

Palestinian homes. I think what we're seeing on the news here is

different to what we're seeing an Israeli news, weather cover things

more detail. I think the news reporting here is slowly coming out

that I get is influenced by the ability of journalists in doubt that

is big freely. We have seen a Russian journalist kicked out of

Gaza for mentioning and showing a picture on Twitter of where rocket

launchers were. We have seen Washington Post journalist and Wall

Street Journal journalists, French newspaper journalists, all of them,

and the journalists in Gaza have criticised Hamas fighters, they have

been intimidated, their families have been threatened. That is why

people here do not understand the personality of this. If they knew

more about it they would change their views? The story about the

rockets fired at Israel, and the point about jihadis, that is an

excellent spin on the side of Israeli spokesman. They all think

the same song. They talk about that. These are primitive rockets. They're

not. The guns of America supplied Israel, it protects Israel out of

the `` how many of the rockets hit targets? That ludicrous. The Israeli

aggression against the Palestinian people, I'm not saying against

Hamas, the reason for that is that none of the rockets... Five years

ago, the similar aggression was, 15 years ago another aggression. There

were no rockets. The rockets point is really meaningless. Let him

finish. One more points. The other side of things, this is Benjamin

Netanyahu's ward. He wants to score some points for eternal political

gain. `` his war. His policy is hurting Jews everywhere in the

world. There has been some fairly disgraceful anti`Semitic things said

in Western European countries as a result of this. Do you think, do you

see that as a direct consequence and something particularly nasty in

Western Europe, or will it fade when this crisis goes away? I think there

rise in anti`Semitism. I think that rise in anti`Semitism. I think that

can be a distraction is certainly an issue. Has been a

rise in anti`Semitism. I from the core issue, which is that Israel is

acting in this extraordinarily disproportionate manner. There where

rocket attacks and Israel does have rocket attacks and

the right to defend itself. The the right to defend itself. The

hugely since the attack started. All hugely since the attack started. All

enemies, the most militant forces in enemies, the most militant forces in

Gaza, they have terrorised a group of people who were

prisons in an area they cannot flee prisons in an area they cannot flee

from. The worst thing of all is the from. The worst thing of all is the

fact that the solution is so much fact that the solution is so

further away. With every day that further away. With every day that

continue to sort of people, they're continue to sort

making that solution harder for making that solution harder

themselves. It is totally themselves. It is totally

self`defeating. Let's move on. The victim of this war is the peace

solution for the Palestinian people. Let's move on. Is putting rusting ``

risking Russian's economic future? Do you think he cares about economic

West? Ella M I think he does care. West? Ella M I think he does care.

But will the factions changes behaviour? Active the answer is no.

He is in a fight for political survival within Russia. He has fans

the flames of Russian nationalism. There is no face`saving way for him

to climb down. He has huge public support as a result of his actions

in Crimea. I think his statements this week were essentially, we don't

care. This will give us an opportunity to develop industries

that we had not developed because of the open economy. This will give us

another opportunity to forge closer relations with China. I think that

is somewhat short`sighted, very short`sighted, because Russian

companies have got used to raising billions of dollars in Western

capital markets. We reported this week that for state`controlled banks

in Russia have $15 billion worth of bonds maturing in the next three

years, denominated in euros, dollars and Swiss francs. They will have a

hard time repaying that that unless they can access Western capital

markets. I think it is a real, the sanctions, let's remember that the

sanctions do not target Russian oil exports. There is still further that

the West can go on this. There is a degree of self harm coming out. Once

you start targeting export of energy, you are also targeting

customers. Writes, and Germany does not want bad. I think the sanctions

are a real turning point. We have diplomats saying that this is not a

new Cold War but it really looks like one from the outside. It brings

bringing Russia into the fold, bringing Russia into the fold,

bringing it, integrating Russia's bringing it, integrating Russia's

economy into the West. It is very hard to see, with Britain still in

control, it looks like it would be there for the foreseeable future

digging his heels in. You have been reporting from the Ukraine, for 200

years, the enigma of Russia has been, how European are you? Perhaps

the answer is, not very. The West has been very slow to realise the

real nature of the regime of Vladimir Putin, he has been thuggish

from the beginning, a gangster. The first annexation of Europe `` when

you see the annexation of Crimea, the first annexation in Europe since

1945, there was a slap on the wrist, nothing more. Even the sanctions are

pretty mild, long`term the sanctions are pretty mild, long`term effects

will not be felt for a while. They have not targeted some of the key

people: Roman Abramovich, still doing as he pleases. Some of the

leading Russian dissidents, the very few remaining, have suggested, and

there is a lot more that should be done. The trouble is that the

reaction has been typically Vladimir Putin, he has ramped up support

since the shooting down of the airliner and now we have a situation

where there is close to full scale war going on with Donetsk being

ripped apart and very obvious Russian supplied people involved in

it. Russians targeting it. It is very difficult to see where we go

from this. And yet we still allow France to sell naval warships, we

are not targeting the people that would hurt now. This is not really

going to work at the moment I think. When you are up against somebody

like Vladimir Putin, you have got to do sanctions effectively and hard.

Europe, although they have imposed slightly stronger sanctions than

Europe, Europe is so divided, they Europe, Europe is so divided, they

are not fit to respond to this threat. That in Putin, when he went

into East Ukraine, back Crimea, it is a very complicated issue, based

on trade and economy. I find it extremely difficult for you to apply

sanctions, 100%, because it is self hurting. That is one thing. The

other thing, I have just read in fact before I came here, now the

Russians have stopped importing Polish apples! That is worth 1

billion euros every year. In GDP terms this is not a lot, but it

would represent 1% of GDP. Presumably significant for some

Polish farmers. And if we go down this route, trade war, a lot of

people will be hurt in Europe, before they get hurt in Russia.

There is a theme, which many people have explored, a lack of Western

leadership and coherent my whole range of things, do see that? That

is correct and we are seeing their reaction to the withdrawal of

America in international affairs on the same scale used to experience.

Vladimir Putin saw that and he has seen the reaction to the Ukraine

situation, Ukraine did not have a unified foreign policy by any

stretch of the imagination. `` Europe did not have. When we take a

look wider view we should look at this, it is not just about Vladimir

Putin, although that is a big part of the problem, but in Donetsk there

is a Russian speaking population and there is some genuine urges for some

level of autonomy. During the European football Championships

hosted there, you would go to Donetsk and there will be huge

proportions of the population cheering on Russia. That is part of

the problem. By making this totally black and white, goodies and

baddies, that is often the way we see things covered in today's news,

we are ignoring a real problem. Just because people speak Russian, that

does not mean that they want to be part of Russia. The party that

stiffer Russian unity in Crimea got 4% of the vote in the election.

There is a huge difference between people having sympathy and support

and being supportive of Russian people and family ties, and actually

wanting to join Russia and wanting to leave Ukraine, and also wanting

to abandon the modern democratic European ideal in favour of

authoritarian regime of Vladimir Putin.

In the Dateline London weekly search for something to cheer us all up

it clearly was not going to be the Ebola outbreak in west Africa,

or the mess of the Argentine economy we settled

on the idea that driverless cars could be in our future.

Is that something which does cheer up our distinguished panel or

like me do they feel there is something a bit weird about moving

It is similar to the way that we were uncomfortable putting credit

card details online to buy things, we will slowly get used to this idea

but it raises a lot of very interesting issues about, these cars

will be powered largely by the Internet, so what if the Internet

breaks down! LAUGHTER There is the question of who is

liable? In an accident, is it the Internet service provider? And then

you had the FBI warning that driverless cars represent a threat,

because of the possibility of hacking attacks, and driverless cars

being used as getaway vehicles... LAUGHTER

We could take this lightly too far, I was more worried about the cat in

the road! Are you terrified by the prospect? I am all in favour, most

crashes are caused by human error, I like being able to read a book or

whatever... You could even send a text message, legally. It is all

great, it will be driven by insurers wanting people to take driverless

cars, because so many people are killed on the road anyway, this is

an advance. As ever, there is a Luddite fear of it, I understand

that, we are so used to sitting there concentrating, sitting there

looking around will be strange. We have not so the Middle East crisis,

but can we solve the problems of road safety? I think it is a great

idea, looking at history we will see that people were probably once

worried about having a carriage without a whole is at the front of

it. They would walk in front of the car with a flag. This will see the

end of personal car ownership and taxes, there will be a network of

autonomous cars which we can fail on smartphones, they will pick us up,

drop us off, and then go to where they are needed most next. It is

going to scare a lot of people because they will not be used to

sitting in a machine moving itself. If you have a young family, you can

programme the car so it takes the children to school and comes back,

this would be great! You do not have to listen to, " are we there yet?"

At my age I would like the idea, it would allow me to continue driving.

At the same time, we come here by car, they drive us here to the

studio. I'm going to miss my driver and that lovely lady. If this is

applied to the industry, and if we have driverless service, then I will

greatly miss her. Note taxi drivers to talk to when you are abroad, what

a great disservice to British journalism! `` no taxi drivers. You

can watch television and news, and you can read newspapers, when you

are in the car. I remember getting on the Docklands light Railway for

the first time and getting on a train without a driver and it was

such a shock. When they first started with trains they said that

the human body could not resist going faster than 30 miles an hour.

Lifestyle will transform everywhere, industry, transport, everything.

Here you are talking about maybe 50 years along, it is a long project.

We should live so long to see it! That is also dateline London this

week, we will be looking for some more share in the gloom at the same

time next week and we hope that you will join us. Until then you can of

course comment on the programme on Twitter, @gavinesler. Goodbye.

Low`pressure system across the UK this weekend, mixed conditions,

throughout the weekend there will be some rain moving north, some strong

winds at times, but in between, a little bit of sunshine and some

showers around. Taking