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Hello and welcome to Dateline London. | :00:00. | :00:27. | |
It has been an unremittingly gloomy week. What President Obama | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
suggested might be genocide in Iraq, the continuing conflict in Gaza, | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
and the West African health emergency caused by Ebola. | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
My guests, who will struggle to be cheerful in all this, are | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
John Fisher Burns of the New York Times, Nabila Ramdani, who | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Saul Zadka of Arise TV and Alex Deane | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
Iraq first ` and a distinguished professor of Middle East studies in | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
London described the fighters of the Islamic State formerly known as ISIS | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
as not so much Islamist as "evilist" ` filled with hatred for anyone, | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Muslim, Christian or otherwise ` who does not fit in with their extremist | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Is the United States ` and its allies ` inevitably going to have | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
to deal with the IS threat which is already causing a humanitarian | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
It is already dealing with it, in a way. This is the purported reason | :01:19. | :01:39. | |
for the US going in, one reason for going into Iraq was purportedly to | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
deny oxygen and space to groups like Al`Qaeda. And now we have a group | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
which is more brutal than Al`Qaeda, we suspect, controlling large parts | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
of Iraq, and trawling the US and the UK back into a conflict that we | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
thought we had bid farewell to. `` drawing the US and the UK back in. | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
My thought is, while the present conditions seem to our guru | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
overwhelmingly for the use of air power, the question must be asked, | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
where will it end, if we are going to do this in respect of the yet | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
easy people, the Christian minority, and the Kurdish people, what are we | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
going to do when the threat arrives at the gate of Baghdad? A government | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
that the United States clearly has very little confidence in. It seems | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
to me that the Iranians will step in, and confront the Islamic State. | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
It is a terrible mess, and of course raises again the question of, how | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
carefully did we consider the consequences of the invasion of Iraq | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
in 23? Do you broadly agree that this has its roots in getting rid of | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
Saddam Hussein, he hasn't got many friends and was a terrible man, is | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
this the consequence of it, or not thinking through what would follow | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
when he got rid of a dictator? Yes, absolutely. I think we can safely | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
say that this kind of policy and taken by President Obama, which | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
seems to be an ethical form of policy undertaken by a Western | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
power, and let's be honest, it contrasts sharply with many foreign | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
policy disasters, of which there have been plenty in the last two | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
years, not least Iraq, so it's a matter of the US going back and | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
sorting out the mess that it effectively created. There was no | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
ISIS before the US`led invasion of Iraq in 23. But I think this | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
American offensive action is hugely significant, not least of all | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
because it is the first since they withdrew in 2011 but because we are | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
again watching America in its role as a superpower, as the world | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
policeman and the precision bombings we have seen so far have proved to | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
be quite successful and they will continue, and meanwhile we have this | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
huge managerial crisis to help those Christian communities, and the UCD | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
people in particular, and this is all designed to prevent a potential | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
genocide. Let's be honest, there does seem to be support for | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
President Obama in Congress and in most countries. If you take one step | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
back you could say it is fundamentally incoherent. A year | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
ago, the American government was talking about bombing President | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
Assad. Now they are bombing the people trying to get rid of him. We | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
have a president who made his entire career of running the presidency | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
based on the fact that he opposed the war in Iraq. And now, very | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
reluctantly, he's been drawn into it, and as John says, we cannot see | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
an end. What is the way out? Once you begin bombing for humanitarian | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
reasons. Don't be too impressed by what he did yesterday. A view | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
bombs, getting rid of the silly battery belonging to ISIS is not | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
going to do the trick. This man in the White House thinking he's the | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
American president, oblivious to the fact that whether he likes it or not | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
he is the leader of the free world, somebody whose imagination does not | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
stretch beyond Washington, DC could have solved the problem Mac back in | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
January, when ISIS took over Fallujah, Andrew Mahdi, and instead, | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
he was reluctant to intervene. He could have solved it simply by | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
bombing this specific position that ISIS took in a generally in Fallujah | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
and the province. He did not. Then ISIS, two months ago, took over the | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
second largest city in Iraq, Mosul. He did not do anything about it. And | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
then one month later, he didn't do anything to help the Christian | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
people there. They expose the Kurdish people and he did nothing. | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Now that we are facing a genocide because the years the deep people | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
are going to be obliterated by the ISIS, only now is the doing | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
something which also could be regarded as very unsatisfactory, too | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
little, too late. It reminded me of President Clinton and his two token | :06:17. | :06:24. | |
bombshells on positions of Al`Qaeda in Sudan, on the eve of some are | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
better lard and moving to Afghanistan and after that she | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
brought on himself the September the 11th disaster. President Obama is | :06:34. | :06:35. | |
reluctant to do anything beyond what he wants to do. I agree and it seems | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
that there are parallels to be drawn with the former Yugoslavia. Because | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
when the West sought to impose peace by air power, those on the ground, | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
who were conducting ethnic cleansing, thought we need to beat | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
up our ethnic cleansing and persecution to deal with this before | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
the International committee really commits. This clearly cannot be | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
solved by air power. You cannot police the situation from 10,000 | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
feet above, nor can you meaningfully help individuals. The Casey referred | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
to in Bosnia, where I spent a good deal of time, was a case where air | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
power did work. `` the case that you refer to. It was three years too | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
late, when the USA and leashed its navy and its teams over Bosnia, the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
insurgency, to call it that, collapsed very quickly. And they | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
rushed to get abuse agreement. The situation is different here to fly | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
Mac I see a great irony, I think that would be the polite word, in | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
the shifting positions of those who condemned the United States for | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
going into Iraq when one of its reasons, let's not forget, beyond | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
weapons of mass destruction, was to enter the murderous tyranny of | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Saddam Hussein. And there were many people, many calling themselves | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
liberals, who condemned President Bush absolutely for that, and have | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
been judged largely right as a result of the consequences. `` it | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
was to end the tyranny. Many of those same people are now asking, | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
where it is the USA, with the leadership, with the bombing? As | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
Colin Powell says, if you break it, you own it. Isn't the root of the | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
problem that the exercise of so`called democracy in Iraq has been | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
a failure, what we have is an incompetent sectarian government in | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
Baghdad which cannot possibly control the country. The country of | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
Iraq has ceased to exist. Very much so. We had a very weak American | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
government, doing nothing to encourage more inclusiveness in | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Nouri al`Maliki's government which encourages the persecution of | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
different groups and the Obama administration did nothing to | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
support a fairer government. Some people would argue that this latest | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
action is designed to protect America's own interests. And their | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
personnel. Heap does have personnel and that you could also say that is | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
for domestic political reasons. I spent hours in Baghdad with American | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
ambassadors, secretaries of State, looking to sit up a table with Nouri | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
al`Maliki and tried to argue with him to broaden his government | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
because otherwise no amount of American military effort was going | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
to save Iraq. There had to be a political reconciliation. He refused | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
it and went on refusing, American troops left, he became even more | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
sectarian. Propping him up all the time. They could have got rid of him | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
and they were in a position to do that. In a war for democracy... Is | :09:57. | :10:05. | |
not the exercise of democracy, it has not exercise in Iraq, that's the | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
floor. To have an impact on the domestic political arena they should | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
have found a replacement from Nouri al`Maliki. Is the only other source | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
of security who could really run the place, that's investment, and that | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
is collapsing as well in the face of the current crisis. The FT has | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
reported this weekend that Exxon Mobil, Chevron, they are pulling | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
nonessential personnel out. As soon as that kind of business, it's | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
already a broken country, as soon as that kind of business, oil and | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
extractive industries, Stubbs, there's no way to run it internally | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
with a proper funding stream anyway. Both sides collapsing, the democracy | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
and any kind of business ability. A recipe for disaster. At the very | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
least you would have to say about the bombings yesterday that the USA | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
and the UK might have two reimpose a no`fly zone. `` they might have to | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
do that. As they were doing until 2003. But they will be doing it on | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
the ground, from little streets. Remember, the no`fly zone through | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
the 1990s into the early part of this decade was designed to prevent | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
Saddam Hussein moving his troops forward into cities like Irbil. I | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
think the reason why there is support this time for America | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
intervening is that ISIS is so spectacularly cruel and wicked that | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
even Al`Qaeda has disowned them and they are literally tearing to pieces | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
every when they perceive as an enemy. Which is everybody except | :11:48. | :11:57. | |
them. Only about 7500 people in Iraqi territories. They could be | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
Freddy Eastwood the other come, and we don't do it. `` they would be | :12:01. | :12:09. | |
very easily overcome. The USA has a lot of responsibility in Iraq. Where | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
other European allies? They don't want to do that. The British are | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
just paying lip service. They don't want to intervene. They will be | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
happy to provide humanitarian aid but it is left to the Americans to | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
do the job. ISIS, dare I say, has Hollywood villain stamped all over | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
them. This is just the kind of simplistic policy presentation | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
designed for mid`America. It fits perfectly into it and this is why | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
Obama is enjoying support at home. Let's move on. Even the optimists in | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
the Middle East never talked about peace in Gaza, merely a cease`fire | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
but there were hopes that exhaustion on both sides might lead to the | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
realisation that nobody could stick a military victory. When we are | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
apparently just one rocket away from even more deaths, where are we now | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
in this jazz game between Israel and the Palestinians? Yesterday, the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
hostilities resume. If you read the British media you would imagine both | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
sides had started shooting each other. This was not the case. Hamas | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
did not want to continue the talks in Cairo simply because 72 hours of | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
a cease`fire was enough for them. They want achievements, meaning | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
lifting the siege, opening a new seaport, and giving them tremendous | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
concessions, rewarding them for what has happened. I don't want to repeat | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
all the cliches about the position of Hamas, and its missile launchers, | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
it's enough for me to say that when we talk about ISIS, Hamas is all the | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
way with ISIS, every inch of the way, except on one point, is as Mike | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
has established its caliphate, Hamas has been doing it for seven years `` | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
ISIS has established its caliphate. Hezbollah was doing it even before | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
that. Hamas is not in the position of even dictating terms to the | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
Egyptian, if you ask me. The Israelis would be foolish to accept | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
any kind of concessions following what happened, remember on July 18 | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
there was an Egyptian cease`fire on the table. Hamas rejected it under | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
the pressure of the new sponsors of terrorism in the Middle East. Qatar. | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
And now Hamas refusing to consider even the possibility of extending | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
the cease`fire. If you want to know Hamas, read the Charter, it's very | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
well documented. It is not just that they refuse to recognise Israel | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
diplomatically like the rest of the Arab world except two countries, it | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
is the Hamas charter but does not want to recognise Israel as an | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
entity in the Middle East because for them the Middle East is sacred. | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
There is chilling reading, refusing `` referring to the Jews as | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
worshippers of the devil. If you think that Hamas Wilbert, they | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
won't, because if you remove the charter, this is their very reason | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
for existing `` if you think that Hamas will budge. And this is why I | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
think there is no future for any negotiation with Hamas, because, and | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
this is my main point, the Palestinians proved they could not | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
be trusted with the territory. They had Gaza to themselves for 7 euros | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
and turned it into a base of and turned it into a base of | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
terrorism. That is the fear of the Israelis that something similar will | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
happen in the West Bank. I think Hamas is a terrorist group | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
with next to no military capability. We have seen this in the latest | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
round of violence. Three Israeli civilians have been | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
killed, two died of shock. Nobody condones the firing of obsolete | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
rockets into Israel. But they must be dealt with in the manner that | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
reflects the danger that they represent. They represent next to | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
zero danger to Israeli lives. Why? Because there is a very effective | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
iron dome Pro tenting the lives of the Israelis that is good. What is | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
at stake is the security of the Palestinians. That is very much the | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
heart of the matter. And the Israelis trying to justify mass | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
murder, more than 2,000 people, more than 400 children, 85%... So you are | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
saying it is disproportionate to the threat that is being posed? Not only | :16:33. | :16:40. | |
that but we are hearing false logic used by the Israelis. Indeed | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
infanticide, to ludicrous claims of 9/11. In my recollection, 9/11 | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians, that is | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
exactly what this operation achieved in Palestine, not the other way | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
around. I think we could move beyond the | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
sorts of arguments that we are seeing on every discussion programme | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
on television in this country. What I want to say is that I think that | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
one thing that everybody can agree on is that the security of | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
Palestine, Gaza and Israel is the desired end state with a two`state | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
solution. It seems to me that Hamas has not been, has paid a heavy price | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
but has achieved something in all of this, which is to threaten the | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
security of the state of Israel in the sense that the security of | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
Israel depends not just on the flow of arms, finances and diplomatic | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
backing from the West but from public opinion. It is unarguable, | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
that what we have seen on the television screens, with we can | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
debate the fairness of the media but 2,000, civilians mostly, killed, | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
400`odd children, has done enormous damage to Israel's standing in the | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
world. As it result it will damage its security. Israel's security is | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
in... But it had no choice... I will come back to both of you. That is a | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
very important point. Israel can clearly defend itself, the defence | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
is not the same as national security. That is a wider issue, | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
about whether you can trust neighbours. In that sense, John may | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
be right. The recent events have been bad for | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
Israel in terms of its standing in the community. That is | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
unquestionable. But Israel has endured extensive criticism in the | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
UN and other bodies and carried on. I am a supporter of the state of | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
Israel but it is difficult to say to Israelis, who have put up with the | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
criticisms and then been Iing perked to say that this is different. This | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
is potentially a watershed. The difference between the international | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
opinion and what is happening in Israel is that the Israeli generals | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
have been given permission to deal with military threats as they see | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
them and they will carry on doing that. That is their job. I question | :19:16. | :19:26. | |
the logic of Irbil, about a propores mate response. What is the Merritt | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
of it? Do you lessen it because you have an iron dome. It works all the | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
of the time. Three Israelis have died. Two died of shock. | :19:41. | :20:16. | |
the same again. Do you take the big point, that is, we have only a | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
minute left but the point that John is making that Israel depends `` is | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
that Israel depends on a degree of goodwill from western industries? Of | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
course. That is why Hamas has lost its entire support in the Arab | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
world. The last point I would like to make, | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
the ceasefire ended and then Hamas started firing again. | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
If Hamas put down its arms, there would be peace in the region. In | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
Israel #3u9 down the arms there would be a massacre of Jews like you | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
have not seen before. Israels have not conducted themselves well but | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
that fundamental is true. The security of Israel being threatened | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
is a myth. That is fundamental. The Palestinian people is the only | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
people on earth to be asked to guarantee the security of its | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
occupier. Israel would have gained worldwide sympathy if it decided to | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
resolve this through the international community. But it | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
decided to send soldiers. Let's move on. | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
So, when you thought that the news around the world could not get any | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
worse, the Ebola outbreak in West Africa is spreading and health | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
emergency is becoming a main point for systems that cannot cope. What | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
should we do in the richer western worlds to help? We must not be | :21:48. | :21:58. | |
spectators. The attitude of Medecins Sans Frontieres is vital. | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
I have spent time in Sierra Leone it is clear to me, a beautiful country, | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
great people that they are, that the infrastructure is inadequate. | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Without Ebola, the medical infrastructure in Sierra Leone was | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
not good enough for the day`to`day means. When Ebola strikes and the | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
doctors are getting sick from a high mortality rate you need help from | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
the international community. Unlike the thorny subjects that we have | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
been discussing, here there is a right answer: A massive western aid | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
as soon as possible. I have talked to health workers, | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
Medecins Sans Frontieres, so on, they lack basic equipment. They are | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
not looking for a miracle cure, that would be great but they want test | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
kits and a degree of public order that they cannot impose. | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
Obama has a fantastic opportunity to deliver as the leader of the free | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
world. But traditionally we choose the third item on the programme as a | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
cheerful one. I did not think it was possible this | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
week. I was thinking there is something cheerful about Ebola. What | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
is it? A jihadi group? Are they competing with Boko Haram? No. It is | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
a disease. Unlike jihad it is curable. | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
It is interesting, it is unarguable that it is up to us to do what is | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
within our power and financial ability and reach within medical | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
knowledge to deal with this but so far about 1,000 people, less, have | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
died of Ebola in West Africa. Every day, every week that passes, many | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
thousands of people across the underdeveloped world die of malaria, | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
pneumonia and other diseases, and perhaps the cynical thought occurs | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
to me, that the reason why Ebola has caught everyone's attention is that | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
everyone is scared that the airports are not sufficiently secured and | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
that Ebola may migrate. That is a legitimate fear to be | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
concerned about. If a traveller comes from malaria, we are well able | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
to treat it. Someone from West Africa with Ebola, the chances are | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
high of their own death and the chances are significant of | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
contaminating others it is a real threat. The priority of western | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
countries, let's be honest, for the rich of the world, to keep Ebola | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
out. We have seen how countries like Britain and France have been | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
monitoring flights from West Africa, the overriding aim to prevent the | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
disease getting here. But countries in the UN and individual countries, | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
pledging money for the countries blighted by the disease. But the | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
number one priority was always to effectively train aircraft crew and | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
airport staff to spot the victims of Ebola. Again, it is self`interesting | :25:07. | :25:15. | |
that is the dynamic behind dealing with this horrific disease. But I | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
believe we have a duty to ensure that the greatest medical minds and | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
research laboratories do all that they can to show solidarity, | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
international solidarity. We talk about war a lot on this programme as | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
being a massive threat to international security but plague or | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
pestilence remains is as much of a threat. | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
An idea that may unite the first part of our discussion to the latter | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
one is how much money has been spent by the West by the United States and | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
the United Kingdom, in the last ten years, trillions of dollars. Let's | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
imagine for a moment that we had sought diplomatic solutions to the | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
challenges and been able to spend even half of that money on | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
combatting illness in the Third World, how much different a picture | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
that this would now look. An optimistic note to end on. That | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
is it for Dateline this week. We hope to have better news next week. | :26:26. | :26:27. | |
Goodbye. Hi there. Today is the quiet before | :26:28. | :26:55. | |
the storm. The storm in question is an old | :26:56. | :26:56. |