22/10/2016 Dateline London

Hello and welcome to Dateline London.

Britain will leave the European Union but remain a close ally -

according to Prime Minister Theresa May.

The battle for Mosul - and for Aleppo.

Plus: Donald Trump refuses to say whether he will accept the US

presidential election result after his final debate

with what he called the "nasty woman."

My guests today are: Agnes Poirier of Marianne, Jeffrey Kofman,

who is a North American journalist, broadcaster Nesrine Malik,

who is a Sudanese writer, and David Aaronovitch of The Times.

Britain still wants a close relationship with the European Union

after Brexit, according to Theresa May at her first

It comes as France plans finally to close the migrant camp at Calais

Is the immigration issue at the heart of Brexit?

And can it be solved - whatever that might mean -

without significant damage to the UK economy?

First of all, and all the negotiations going to be conducted

in French, as the EU representative seems to think. The answer... The

answer is no. Anyway, who could do it? He speaks French? The

conversations are going to be hired anyway. Look, as long as article 50

is not triggered, we can talk about it for Arras, what we don't know.

The answer is we don't know until it's done, and we start, they start

negotiating. Nobody really knows. It might go on for a very long time,

until March, at least, because Theresa May said that was the time

she would push the bottom. So that summit on Thursday, where they said

you will get a hard Grexit. And then they said freedom of movement is not

only about hedge funds, it's also about citizens. And then wishing

somehow Britain wasn't exiting the EU. Then Parliament will get a vote,

which is probably the most interesting bit of news. The British

Parliament having a role as interesting, but one of the most

interesting things is Canada has been scuppered by one lonely

refusing to agree the deal. Even if you are a is

Remainer, this is difficult. Remainers have to deal with the fact

that the EU doesn't quite work and that opponents have to deal with the

fact that they still have to deal with the dysfunctional EU. The

complaint was that the EU was undemocratic and was dubbed to a

billion, but this seems to be over responsive to Perpignan, such as

taking notice of the Wallonia, who a lot of people in Britain have never

heard of. Wallonia want to protect their cattle industry from the

Canadian input and that is stopping the entire deal. So five hundred

million people I'd check needed. We should call this what it is, it's a

symbol of the way in which some people are reacting against

globalisation, in this case Wallonia, but also assessment of

people arguing against the trade gales. Hillary Clinton was forced to

roll back on that, because of the illusion that if you can stop the

Canadians coming in, you can protect you and industries. Actually,

although it does point of the difficulty of getting 20 countries

to do the same thing, it shows how difficult it would be for Britain to

get any kind of trade deal. I was listening to trade Secretary

yesterday and said, it shows how right we are to get out. But also

seen who will get a good deal. You actually are". The two sides of your

bed and not actually connecting. But to answer your original question

about immigration, when the company was going, we said that this was

basically a plebiscite on immigration. But the Grexit campaign

said it was only about protecting business and democracy and

sovereignty, but it was a plebiscite on immigration and moreover, it was

a plebiscite on all immigration, not just EU immigration, as evidenced by

the reaction to all people perceived as immigrants. There has been

advising hate crime and racial slurs in general. I think this is legacy

of the various strange and contradictory attitude that

politicians have had to immigration in Kent, in that they have been

either not talking about how valuable immigration isn't there

also not been talking about how sometimes immigration in certain

areas can be disturbing to the local population. The Villa Park this

conspiracy of paralysis on both sides of the debate. People not

wanting to talk about the good side thought the Bard or immigration, so

loser was a vacuum that it was billed by this Brexit shaped hall.

Now it's happened, people will see that the ramifications are not just

about immigration. We might even end up in a situation where the pan

control immigration. We don't know how the discussions will go, but we

know that the leader of movement and the single market are linked and you

cannot have both. If, they are saying they want freedom of

movement, there is this conversation between deaf people. They keep

shouting at each other, but they don't seem to be talking to each

other. Then they bring in Calais. All these people there, they hope

some of them were want them in advance, but then living to start

the process of asylum seekers. But what many people don't know is that

even when there are agreements between the UK and Europe that are

not even limited, the reason there are migrants in Calais is that there

is an agreement between France and UK that this is the last line.

Although it's not related to the new general, if there is a bad

atmosphere, the fate of time that up and one. There is the mother of all

these that will happen in Ireland, which is that in order to maintain a

saltwater, you have effectively to put the British border in Dublin and

all entrances to Ireland, but islanders are fully signed up member

of the European union. I cannot see any process which stops people from

going from the EU into Ireland and then going over this border into

Belfast. This is a wireless contradiction, which we don't have

an answer for. There is no absolute answer to it. That is just something

which is absolutely lucrative hours. That's before you get onto the

complexity of trade agreements and so on, which infinitely more

complex. That's why, when Donald Tusk says, he has that

have lost faith in people, he knows they might say now we have had a

site of this, we are not sure about it. I haven't entirely lost hope of

that either. Where do you think the British Parliament or content of

this? For hundreds of years, we have assumed that the government in a

non-unwritten constitutional way, that the parliaments is softening in

this country, referendums might be important, but they are advisory.

The Levin told us one thing only, which is only the EU. It didn't tell

us anything about the alternatives and other agreements. So about the

offer but what that he is in play and it's got Parliament to decide

what the business visionaries. The problem with the cat decided the

best conclusion, they can only decide what they want to try for,

and then what they will accept, because they are on the other end of

a huge complex negotiation with other people, who also have

sovereignty over their own decisions. When you look at the Pope

and British parliamentary system right now is that the biggest local

opposition to Brexit was within Theresa May's own party. The Labour

Party is not part of this equation. The official opposition should be in

some way of preventing alternatives are challenging the assumptions, but

Jeremy Corbyn is so marginalised nuances can support. There will be

Labour figures who have an important part of the coalition of scrutiny,

but it will come from Jeremy Corbyn. Hillary Benn has now taken the

chairmanship of the community. If you're going to be a trade deal

between Canada and the EU, do you think? Nobody knows!

Iraqi forces - aided by the United States and other allies -

have moved to retake the strategically important city of

Mosul this week with Islamic State fighters in retreat.

Do we expect the result to be more suicide

There has definitely been a slow but in the suspicion that of Isis. They

have launched a counterattack, but on the whole, we can agree that Isis

is beginning to lose some influence. But when people think that Isis is

beginning to treat on a practical level, that doesn't actually mean

Isis needs territory to be Isis. The power of Isis and how it had landed

internationally is that it is an ideology, non-negotiator Paul,

intransigence in general. I think that on the ground, it will be a

mercy not to have Isis in power in Iraq and hopefully in Syria as well.

But I don't think that means that Isis the idea is on the way at all.

Weather that leaves more suicide bombings, more terror attacks or an

intensifying of the ideological war, because that is a possibility. The

challenge to Isis as an idea has to come from Muslim communities

themselves. There's no point in people from outside the Islamic

world challenging it ideological. I think within the Arab world, is the

complete consensus that Isis the complete abomination and people are

fighting against Isis to deliver and ideological. Then there is not an

Muslim Brotherhood, it's not a political party that came out in

decades of systematic, coherent, political and ideological

oppression. It's an anathema. It is an aggregate sure that arose now

would sleep dysfunction and nationalistic failure across several

countries. Opportunistically. So in the way that the Muslim Brotherhood

has now been undermined systematically across North Africa,

because the reasons for its existence have also changed, I don't

think Isis can be dealt with one coherent push. I agree with what

your saying, but I think that Isis can you described the Colts, and I

it's the Colts, I saw this in Libya when I covered the form of Colonel

Gaddafi, hopelessness, the despair, the drift of the Next Generation,

the youth in the regions, allows them to be vulnerable. In the two

groups the engagement, prosperity in the future. So the vulnerable to

this kind of extremism, which is least gives them a sense, the false

sense of place. I think that way you look at the solution, I know I

remember when I was in Libya, speaking to a very intelligent

Libyan, who had come back to work with the billions in rebuilding the

country. I said to her, if he had a pile of money, but we can build?

They said, I would build youth centres, sports centres and Johann

to have positive outlets. This is the problem. There is no beer,

business structure. The only talk about depleting Isis, it's fine to

talk about the military we can all take comfort in that. But in the

longer term, and to give people the opportunity. It also strikes me that

in order to have an intimate and defeat them to ideological, who this

night campaign and that has been lacking in western involvement in

the region. Exactly. And look at the battles on the ground, those who are

fighting Isis, it looks as if President Obama and the US

administration has even sillier to our third and Putin and go straight

in on Iraq. -- including Syria to President Assad and Vladimir Putin.

In the terrorist attack on baggage the Baghdad, where 300 people

killed. I fear I have a wave of suicide bombings in there. This is

where you have a problem overhangs, it is foreign policy, but it's also

something is happening and this is exactly what you're talking about,

and ideology. It's not on the ground, it's not the military

context that the defeat Daesh. There is however an alternative that is

still in place in Europe. The car into the slightly different tack, I

think that because one of Isis was a key selling points is that it has

territory, I think the wrath of that territory is support for Jihad and

probably he to anticipate the other forms of jihadist. Although the

consequences are likely to be the scene, which is that the two groups

of terrorists attempting to do bad things in Europe and Iraq. But for

the longer term, imaginatively to a city the size of the form, let's

say, then most extreme form of the provisional IRA could conceivably

imagine, it has been there 15 years, running out of the left of the

schools, destroying the lead and the people that live. I did has to be

done in such a move, this rebuilding of this enormous city and area

inadvertently that live. I did have to be done in such a way, this

rebuilding of this enormous city and earlier inadvertently let it doesn't

replicate the problem is the government in Iraq had partly be

responsible for before, with the alienation of the populations and so

on, and immensely complicated job, so that has to be done as well,

actively rebuilding is important and even then it leads to the question

of Daesh in the one and the difficulties there. This will impact

on the subject a little if we are going to talk about the American

presidential election, which is that American policy here becomes pretty

significant, not totally decisive, but pretty significant. Are those

policies could be continued probably change? Let's move on.

Donald Trump spoke of deporting "bad hombres" from the United States

and characterised Hillary Clinton as a nasty woman for suggesting

that he might continue to avoid paying taxes in future.

But the main headline from the third and final US presidential debate

was simply that Mr Trump refused to say that he will definitely

accept the election result in November.

I'm tempted to ask that, but in truth we have been talking about the

issues the experimenting with these, one way or another, those who almost

as if this would be selling another world, talking about beauty

pageants. It is absolutely despairing of the available to watch

this, but I could say it's always dangerous when movies words will

come back to haunt you. But barring some unforeseen surprise, better

late than never. The pays the Hillary Clinton is going to win it.

So that is clear, value for a surprise. What's not clear if what

happens within discontented Donald Trump supporters. He said the

election might be leaked. This undermines American democracy, the

sanctity of the front. Pointing. This man is really, really evil. He

has no respect for democracy, no interest in understanding it. Who

has shown his instinct to be a demagogue and a dictator and they

can do serious damage. If he loses. If, in Japan. If Clinton hated, I

watched the third debate and if you watch it, not knowing any back

through the these people, she put it so brilliantly. She spoke about the

issues, she was not fazed, she was not knackered, the statistical

undermined him in the group phase, a great thing for people who have to

deal with Putin and others. He looked like 15-year-old boys who

hadn't done his homework. He couldn't talk about anything

substantive serious thought to personal attacks. Hillary Clinton's

biggest challenge is to try to increase, to open and extend her

boots and broaden her support. He wrote an interesting comment in the

cup at times this week about the narrative of Brexit and comp

supporters left behind anti-the challenge that. There will be

tempted to the people who vote with Donald Trump and they might think

the election was raped and losers. Absolutely. One of the biggest

problem is that that President Clinton will face, not least of all

the fact that none of us have had a discussion about the problems they

face because we have been talking about Donald Trump, is the Trap

supporters. That section of America, it has been revealed to us through

the Donald Trump candidacy, which is prepared to support the move is

unlikely, his purposes of person in order if you like to put two fingers

up to her sister, but for one reason or another, Google does not

represent them or they don't bite. What this time to see is that if you

look at the figures, it's not a factor of being left behind, this is

not a factor of just rust belt Americans paid foreign competition

has left behind. This is a much bigger complicity of the collapse of

a belief in what Hitler represented for a significant proportion of its

white and male population. This new list the distinction between black

and the two processes ( and women voters. It's almost collapsed

between the sections of the population and it's evident in other

parts of Europe. And how to deal with it is a very problem. The

combat it, which seems little more support? Do they confront it, in

which case they are in the battlements. The people have to deal

with it, they politely, that is, is actually a bleeding edge 's effort,

the this in the report added regard as the Enlightenment. He would say

that, mainstream media. The interesting thing is, one of the

people in this week, Donald Trump is almost like the line so. People

write articles and then clothes come and attack the person will have

gender and race. So the content of the article is never addressed.

Donald Trump has managed to completely ignore criticism away

from Hillary from any reasonable sources, because people are

obsessed. I haven't heard people at any criticism of him relief that was

mainstream for Donald Trump please please candidacy. Now criticism you

could reasonably and legitimately look at, so if I were you, who has

helped them after playing along with people who would have been undecided

between the two, because there courts were not given a fair and

unbiased bleeding. There has been an undermining of the

very idea of America. An idea of exists. The George Bush being

respect the Hillary Clinton, say, I wish you well. Let's protect

herself, November nine, three a.m.. Now, she has one. Fine. And I can

see Donald Trump Clevedon, I'm not accepting this result. Even in her

life that happens? Paper-thin 1860. I look what happened after that!

When the Confederate leaders refuse the election of Lincoln. So here

goes War, the idea of civil war. It happens all the time the Arab

world and the West was out of people to respect and accept the results of

election. We'll have to leave it there.

That's it for Dateline London for this week -

we're back next week at the same time.

You can of course comment on the programme on Twitter @gavinesler.

I think we've got some reasonable weather to look

We will start with a bit of mist and fog to contend

We had about this morning and also for tomorrow morning.