Browse content similar to 24/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and a very warm
welcome to Dateline London. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
I'm Carrie Gracie. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
This week we look at the continuing
carnage in Syria, and discuss | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
the latest twists in
the Brexit debate. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
My guests this week:
The conservative political | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
commentator Alex Deane,
Marc Roche of Le Point, | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
the American writer
and broadcaster Jeffrey Kofman, | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
and the columnist for the Gulf based
newspaper The National, | 0:00:39 | 0:00:44 | |
and Arab Weekly
Rashmee Roshann Lall. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:53 | |
Barrel bombs, air strikes
and shelling by Syrian government | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
forces have killed nearly 500 people
this week, many of them children. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
Eastern Ghouta the beseiged area
on the edge of the Syrian capital | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
Damascus, has been described
as "Hell on Earth". | 0:01:01 | 0:01:05 | |
The UN has | 0:01:06 | 0:01:07 | |
called for a cease fire. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
Rashmee, you've been following this
nightmare, do you see an end | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
to the suffering of people in Syria? | 0:01:12 | 0:01:19 | |
I think the response to that
question should certainly not to be | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
along the United Nations children's
fund issued. Its institutional heart | 0:01:24 | 0:01:30 | |
was so heavy that it could not
describe the suffering of the people | 0:01:30 | 0:01:36 | |
of eastern Ghouta, and it simply
issued a bank statements, saying the | 0:01:36 | 0:01:40 | |
truth is beyond language, there is
nothing further to say. -- a blank | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
statement. I would say, one has two
recognise words can have the quality | 0:01:44 | 0:01:52 | |
of deeds. Let's look at the facts,
let's use words to do that. The | 0:01:52 | 0:01:58 | |
facts on the ground art, Syrian's
President Bashar al-Assad, as long | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
as he checks in with Moscow, he can
pretty much do what ever he wants in | 0:02:02 | 0:02:07 | |
the country. As long as he has
robust foreign support. There has | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
been a stand-off with the UN with
much of the world trying desperately | 0:02:11 | 0:02:16 | |
to get this very small concession
which is a humanitarian halt to the | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
siege and staff strike strategies
that Assad is using. They can't do | 0:02:21 | 0:02:28 | |
it because the Russians are stopping
it. The facts on the ground are that | 0:02:28 | 0:02:33 | |
the Syrian regime is there, it's not
going away, and one finds it's very | 0:02:33 | 0:02:38 | |
hard to understand the rational
basis of what some trumped | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
administration officials describe as
a return of the Syrian state, not | 0:02:43 | 0:02:49 | |
return of the Syrian regime, kind of
approach. They are not going | 0:02:49 | 0:02:54 | |
anywhere, it can end if we recognise
the facts on the ground. You are a | 0:02:54 | 0:03:00 | |
North American, Jeffrey, what's your
view on the Trump administration | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
recognising facts on the ground? We
saw a year ago in April when the | 0:03:03 | 0:03:09 | |
sarin gas was used, that was the red
line in the sand, and to Trump's | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
credit he actually responded. The
air strikes destroyed 20% of the | 0:03:13 | 0:03:19 | |
Syrian air force. He has calculated
that is a red line, Assad, I can do | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
chlorine, these huge bombs, all
sorts of carnage. But if I don't do | 0:03:23 | 0:03:29 | |
chemical warfare per se, I can get
away with it. That is what has | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
happened. This will not be solved
with American leadership. America is | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
in the midst of a nervous breakdown,
it is to internal looking right now | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
to care about this. I despair
because I don't see how this will | 0:03:40 | 0:03:45 | |
work. Russia is playing chess, the
rest of the world is playing | 0:03:45 | 0:03:50 | |
checkers. Of course we can hope and
in some way there must be a | 0:03:50 | 0:03:56 | |
solution, I struggled to see where
it is. France, long experienced in | 0:03:56 | 0:04:01 | |
the Middle East, the French pushing
hard for that UN Security Council | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
resolution. Is there a game of chess
that can be turned into checkers or | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
vice versa? The problem is that in
the Security Council, Russia who has | 0:04:09 | 0:04:15 | |
a veto and is a prominent member,
who knows very well the UN because | 0:04:15 | 0:04:21 | |
of the court, is making the
situation impossible. The only hope | 0:04:21 | 0:04:27 | |
with America out of the game is
France. And Britain. They have one | 0:04:27 | 0:04:34 | |
moment they can use against the
Assad regime. It's Russia. It's | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
hardening the sanctions, and if you
think that there are lots of Putin's | 0:04:39 | 0:04:46 | |
friends who have property in
Britain, property in France and on | 0:04:46 | 0:04:52 | |
the Cote d'Azur, him and each
suitable club, the owner is close, | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
they could seize all this. -- the
Chelsea football club. But Britain | 0:04:55 | 0:05:02 | |
and France love Russian money so
they would be any help. I am at | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
least on a moral issue, France and
Britain, they are showing the way. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:12 | |
It's no accident all of us have
mentioned Russia and the involvement | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
in the Assad regime. Long gone are
the days when President Obama mocked | 0:05:16 | 0:05:25 | |
Mitt Romney for calling Russia the
threat of the future. Here I think | 0:05:25 | 0:05:32 | |
criticism of Russia is very well
founded. As well as Russia's formal | 0:05:32 | 0:05:37 | |
forces on the ground in Syria, which
are significant, we see the | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
operation of companies like Wagner
PMC, Private military companies, | 0:05:41 | 0:05:50 | |
mercenaries, on the ground embedded
in Assad's forces, fighting the | 0:05:50 | 0:05:55 | |
Kurdish anti-Assad forces. Why this
matters so much, fighting against | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
the Americans directly, we are
seeing Russians albeit not in | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
Russian uniform but it seems with
the blessing of the Kremlin in | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
operation of the 2500 of them,
fighting alongside Assad's forces | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
directly against Americans. It's an
incredibly dangerous situation, so | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
it's not just about what happens in
Syria to solve it, also the | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
potential risk of Americans and
Russians facing directly. Earlier | 0:06:19 | 0:06:27 | |
this month we saw a confrontation
between Russian and American forces | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
in which the western side claims 100
Russians died, the Kremlin omits | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
several dozen did. We get dragged
into a conflict in a way we saw for | 0:06:32 | 0:06:37 | |
much of the 20th century, bad news.
I think we must understand that for | 0:06:37 | 0:06:43 | |
Russia there is a lot at stake here.
This is Syria, strategically so | 0:06:43 | 0:06:49 | |
important. The only Russian
Mediterranean -based is there, they | 0:06:49 | 0:06:54 | |
want to keep their foothold
geopolitically in this area. The US | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
is focused elsewhere. Presumably for
the Russians it stands to reason | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
that they want to give their Syrian
allies time to finish off the rebels | 0:07:01 | 0:07:06 | |
on the edge of Damascus. There are a
lots of arguments that say we should | 0:07:06 | 0:07:14 | |
prevent the collapse of the Syrian
state. Libya is not a shining | 0:07:14 | 0:07:19 | |
template, nobody wants to go there.
This is not about rewarding bad | 0:07:19 | 0:07:25 | |
behaviour or giving carte blanche to
callous leaders, it is about if we | 0:07:25 | 0:07:29 | |
care about the suffering of the
Syrian people, we want it to stop. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:35 | |
The trouble is, Mark's point was the
French and British responsibility | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
applies. We were for and against
Assad, now we are not sure. Our | 0:07:39 | 0:07:44 | |
foreign policy seems to be that he
should go but on balance we would | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
rather the state did not collapse. A
contradiction. The sanctions, they | 0:07:46 | 0:07:53 | |
cannot put up with more sanctions.
The economy is doing badly. Surely | 0:07:53 | 0:08:00 | |
the her point is we need to let the
Syrian people out of this misery and | 0:08:00 | 0:08:06 | |
do I understand correctly, you are
basically saying at some point, the | 0:08:06 | 0:08:11 | |
Syrian government should be
assisting in finishing this in as | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
civil a way as possible? Basically
what we are understanding is there | 0:08:13 | 0:08:22 | |
maybe a arrangement with Mr Assad,
we may talk about that at some | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
point, he has it. Maybe because the
Russians have him by the short and | 0:08:26 | 0:08:32 | |
Curly is, let the situation gets to
there. If people can help, help. If | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
not, get the message and Get Out.
You bring up Libya and I covered | 0:08:37 | 0:08:42 | |
Libya for ABC News. The failed state
solution is one we all fear now. And | 0:08:42 | 0:08:48 | |
rack very much is like that as well.
What I worry about that is it's | 0:08:48 | 0:08:53 | |
easier to let things bump along and
let the people of Syria suffer | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
horrendously manages to find a
long-term solution. Particularly in | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
today's world where you can talk
about this concept of empathy, we as | 0:09:01 | 0:09:07 | |
consumers of media in the west are
so beaten down by the imagery, as I | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
was preparing for this and reviewing
some of the footage last night it's | 0:09:11 | 0:09:15 | |
really hard to watch. If you go to
the BBC website, it's much easier to | 0:09:15 | 0:09:20 | |
go to some list article on bus speed
than to look at these children | 0:09:20 | 0:09:26 | |
suffering. Assad is a war criminal.
He should not be allowed to do what | 0:09:26 | 0:09:33 | |
he is doing. Who is taking the
leadership to say that? We are | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
sitting in London, where is the
outrage from Westminster, where is | 0:09:38 | 0:09:46 | |
Boris Johnson on this? Fatigue. More
to the point, who can.? The | 0:09:46 | 0:09:53 | |
Russians. -- who can enforce that?
Can I bring up the Koran? | 0:09:53 | 0:10:00 | |
-- can I bring up Iran? That is
another question. That is in a way | 0:10:03 | 0:10:12 | |
balanced because Israel and Iran
balance each other, they are not | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
really the main proponent, it's
Russia. Without the Russian air | 0:10:15 | 0:10:20 | |
force, Assad is dead. It is Russia
we should target, Iran in a way has | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
his brother, their side to the
story. What do you think about the | 0:10:25 | 0:10:30 | |
question of Boris Johnson. Much
distracted about events with Brexit. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:38 | |
I think there is a significant role
for our country and this discussion, | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
a moral responsibility given our
history and heritage in that region. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:47 | |
I do think we should not overstep
our bounds. If we are going to act | 0:10:47 | 0:10:52 | |
in this environment, if you break
it, you own it. If we intervene | 0:10:52 | 0:10:57 | |
significantly and if Assad were to
go as a result, two big ifs, who | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
goes in his place? What is our
responsibility for popping up that | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
regime? The pragmatic answer is that
this terrible person running his | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
country is better rather than
propping up a new regime for which | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
we back of the responsibility that
cannot go well. War criminals | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
sometimes have to be tolerated? Gas.
And leaders sometimes had to stay in | 0:11:17 | 0:11:26 | |
office. He is a war criminal, not a
bad leader. What about the UN? We | 0:11:26 | 0:11:35 | |
had the French ambassador talking
about this being a key credibility | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
moments, not just the graveyard for
many Syrians but it also should not | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
just be the graveyard for the UN
Security Council. Is it is now 11 | 0:11:42 | 0:11:48 | |
times Russia has blocked the
resolutions on this? There is a | 0:11:48 | 0:11:53 | |
paralysis here, the Russian agenda
and the rest of the world's agenda | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
are in conflict. The structure of
the UN is now paralysed and the | 0:11:56 | 0:12:02 | |
credibility very much at stake.
Basically every major international | 0:12:02 | 0:12:09 | |
issue like this has failed to be
resolved because of the kinds of | 0:12:09 | 0:12:14 | |
power imbalances. In the end we form
these so-called coalitions of the | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
willing and if something will happen
here, that's where it would be. The | 0:12:17 | 0:12:22 | |
UN is doing a terrific job, a very
good job with the 5 million | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
refugees. It's good for other
things. We must move on but a yes, | 0:12:26 | 0:12:32 | |
no answer. If there were listeners
or viewers to this programme in | 0:12:32 | 0:12:37 | |
Eastern Ghouta today, yes or no, is
there any hope for them in the near | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
future to an end of the air strikes
and the siege they are living under? | 0:12:41 | 0:12:48 | |
No. There is always hope. I refuse
to say there isn't. I don't see it | 0:12:48 | 0:12:55 | |
but I want to believe it. | 0:12:55 | 0:13:03 | |
One of the biggest questions is
Brexit. | 0:13:03 | 0:13:09 | |
Ambitious managed divergence. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:10 | |
That is the expression the British
Prime Minister Theresa May | 0:13:10 | 0:13:12 | |
and her senior ministers came up
with at a summit this week | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
to describe their vision
of Britain's future relationship | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
with the European Union. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:25 | |
The president of the European
Council called it pure illusion. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
On Monday the Labour leader
Jeremy Corbyn will set | 0:13:28 | 0:13:30 | |
out his alternative. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:31 | |
Alex, where does ambitious managed
divergence stand today? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:37 | |
Our Prime Minister with the office
comes a very nice country manor | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
house, and she went with ten of her
senior ministers, her Brexit War | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
Cabinet, to discuss what happens
next. There was some agreement | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
amongst those people, not least in
mutual recognition of goods amongst | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
us and the EU. That matters because
the Conservative Party has not been | 0:13:54 | 0:13:59 | |
entirely united on questions about
future relationships with the EU. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
You are right, the next step is what
happens domestically in the UK | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
between the government and the
opposition. Jeremy Corbyn's position | 0:14:06 | 0:14:12 | |
on this, perversely, given that he's
not in government will be quite | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
decisive for the mid-stage we are
now looking at. He must decide, I'm | 0:14:15 | 0:14:20 | |
amazed he has pulled off this trick
of not really showing his hand, is | 0:14:20 | 0:14:25 | |
he going to come out in favour of us
remaining in the customs union or a | 0:14:25 | 0:14:30 | |
customs union, and if so, will he
take the Labour Party with him to | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
vote against the government? And the
answer? I think he won't. Putting | 0:14:34 | 0:14:41 | |
your colours to the mast like that
undermines him with many Labour | 0:14:41 | 0:14:46 | |
voters who voted to leave the
European Union, and makes a start | 0:14:46 | 0:14:51 | |
position between him and the
government with the government | 0:14:51 | 0:14:53 | |
saying we are trying to implement
the largest baby ever had in our | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
country and you are seeking to
stymie it. Putting aside principles, | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
the practical political question is,
could he defeat the government? That | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
I don't know. If you stood up for
the customs union, some Conservative | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
MPs would vote with him. We will
come back to that. I want to go back | 0:15:09 | 0:15:14 | |
to that checkers moments, the kind
of, some called it a fudge, others | 0:15:14 | 0:15:20 | |
called it ambitious, the Prime
Minister playing a blinder. As | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
someone not in the entrails of
Brexit everyday, do you feel you | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
watch that episode and you now
understood where the government | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
stands on Brexit? I am a political
junkie so I do understand it but for | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
much of the world, if you compile
the definitive Brexit dictionary | 0:15:35 | 0:15:39 | |
after all this is over much after
March 2019, there will be these key | 0:15:39 | 0:15:44 | |
phrases, manage divergences, the
vassal state, cake and eat it | 0:15:44 | 0:15:50 | |
philosophy. The three baskets
approach. All of it goes on and on. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:57 | |
Basically, as one can understand it,
clearly, the EU keeps expressing | 0:15:57 | 0:16:03 | |
great surprise and the world DeMent
at the British position. It's always | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
been clear. Its posture. The British
want everything. They have said it | 0:16:07 | 0:16:15 | |
over and over. Which part of that
event not understand? Whether it is | 0:16:15 | 0:16:22 | |
unattainable or not. We have already
heard the president of the European | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
Council is a pure illusion, is there
a route by which the UK can win all | 0:16:25 | 0:16:30 | |
gain no pain? No, because you cannot
cherry pick the single market or the | 0:16:30 | 0:16:36 | |
custom union, you are in or you are
out. The checkers compromise is | 0:16:36 | 0:16:42 | |
purely for internal, because as far
as the 27 are concerned, they will | 0:16:42 | 0:16:47 | |
refuse it. It's a fudge? Yes, a
domestic fudge. You have on one side | 0:16:47 | 0:16:57 | |
a very divided UK Government, who is
coming now with this cherry picking | 0:16:57 | 0:17:03 | |
off, what they want. On the other
side, which you forget, the 27 are | 0:17:03 | 0:17:08 | |
all united. They all know what they
to do, Britain is isolated, Britain | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
has absolutely no cards. Let's just
checked... I just want a reality | 0:17:12 | 0:17:22 | |
check. This is now more than a year
and a half into this discussion, we | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
are approaching a year before the
divorce, whatever you want to call | 0:17:25 | 0:17:30 | |
it, that's the polite word. An open
marriage! We are still talking about | 0:17:30 | 0:17:38 | |
general terms and concepts. We have
moved from Brexit meaning Brexit to | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
these new terms that you rhyme off,
yet we are not getting into | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
specifics. It just shows that
Theresa May as you say has this | 0:17:47 | 0:17:54 | |
impossible balancing act within her
party. The country does not know | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
where it's going. We should be
concerned about the lack of | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
leadership. There was an agreement
in phase one. Good. There will be an | 0:18:00 | 0:18:07 | |
agreement on phase two, which will
be bad for Britain. It is moving on. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:13 | |
The trade now is the most important
thing. Again, Britain is isolated in | 0:18:13 | 0:18:20 | |
trade, the illusions of grandeur
that they can get there on their | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
own, it's a medium-sized country
facing 27. This is a negotiation in | 0:18:23 | 0:18:30 | |
which people are taking postures.
The peculiar thing, I am not saying | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
you were doing this, but the
peculiar thing in our country, we | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
look at what the government does and
pick it apart, then we look at what | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
the EU says, equally posturing on
their side, and say here is the | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
Gospel handed down to us by these
leaders of the EU. Actually a lot of | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
what's being said publicly is hot
air in preparation for real hard | 0:18:50 | 0:18:55 | |
negotiation, bad news for viewers
who want to get this over and done | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
with. It would be concluded until Q1
next year. I wanted to point out the | 0:18:58 | 0:19:04 | |
EU, the United position is likely to
splinter and has already. Why? It | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
hasn't. 27... Because the first post
Brexit budget of 2021 is starting to | 0:19:09 | 0:19:16 | |
be discussed. We will see it in May,
there are significant differences | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
are merging and more will emerge
over trying to plug that big hole, | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
10 billion euros. That is something
the UK can take advantage of? | 0:19:24 | 0:19:30 | |
Indeed, one hopes they can. In the
security Corporation field. The | 0:19:30 | 0:19:37 | |
Europeans must spend more on
security. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
-- security cooperation. No one
knows what it will look like, | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
perhaps not even Alex. The important
thing is not the security, we all | 0:19:44 | 0:19:49 | |
agreed. The Brits need Europe. The
Canada thing, this delusion that the | 0:19:49 | 0:19:56 | |
UK will get Canada plus plus, plus.
The Canada deal took seven years. | 0:19:56 | 0:20:04 | |
Alex is saying that's a posture. You
know very well it does not include | 0:20:04 | 0:20:10 | |
service, financial service. The
Canadian deal is not useless. More | 0:20:10 | 0:20:17 | |
over, the average trade deal takes
two or less and you must bear in | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
mind the importance attached to a
trade deal between us and the EU if | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
there is to be one given we are each
other's largest trading partners. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:28 | |
This is not like forming a deal with
another standard donation, it's not | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
like forming a deal with another
third nation, the day we leave we | 0:20:32 | 0:20:37 | |
will be Europe's largest trading
partner with who we operate a | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
massive trading surplus. That point
about splintering as fair, some | 0:20:40 | 0:20:47 | |
countries will want things more than
others and the closer you get to the | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
finish line, the more... This is a
particularly interesting week. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:56 | |
Monday, we have Jeremy Corbyn
speaking. Where Alex began, it's | 0:20:56 | 0:21:03 | |
critical we watch what happens
Monday. Corbyn who has been defined | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
as an ideologue has the potential to
pitted to being a pragmatist on | 0:21:07 | 0:21:11 | |
Monday, and potentially we talk
about chess and checkers, he could | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
play a really interesting chess
game. If he could force the | 0:21:14 | 0:21:21 | |
government's hand there is a
scenario that is not outrageous that | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
says he could force an election
sometime this year. Walk us through | 0:21:24 | 0:21:29 | |
these steps, by peeling off rebels?
By peeling off government rebels, by | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
saying Labour is now pro-customs
union, or for a soft Brexit. That | 0:21:34 | 0:21:40 | |
would potentially bring it more to
where the Lib Dems fit in. Do you | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
think Corbyn will do that? I put my
crystal ball away, I have been so | 0:21:44 | 0:21:50 | |
wrong at this desk so many times. I
think we should watch and see. Then | 0:21:50 | 0:21:55 | |
you have Theresa May scheduled to
speak Friday to give her position, | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
task has already said she is
delusional. This is a critical week. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:07 | |
What kind of partner pre-emptively
slacks off the thing being said by | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
the person they are supposed to be
negotiating with? You want to cherry | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
pick again. U2 have been round that
argument. I want to hear what you | 0:22:14 | 0:22:19 | |
have to say about that dilemma. I
hope he comes down to stay in the | 0:22:19 | 0:22:25 | |
customs union and that this
government, useless government, very | 0:22:25 | 0:22:31 | |
useless government, as far as
negotiation is concerned. They will | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
fall because at the end of the day
the EU is faced with a government | 0:22:35 | 0:22:41 | |
which is not knowing what it wants,
it is divided, you need a strong... | 0:22:41 | 0:22:46 | |
That is your hope for you think that
will happen? I think that Corbyn | 0:22:46 | 0:22:51 | |
will go for the customs union. I
think the Labour leader will go for | 0:22:51 | 0:22:58 | |
a customs union. I think it's all
about jobs and the Shadow Foreign | 0:22:58 | 0:23:04 | |
Secretary saying, it's the right
thing to think. Not only does it put | 0:23:04 | 0:23:10 | |
the debate in a new existential one
for the challenge to the government | 0:23:10 | 0:23:16 | |
in the house in a real way, then
Tory rebels must think, what do I do | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
now, do I vote with the Labour Party
in favour of a customs union, but I | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
could bring down the government?
They must decide whether they are a | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
Remainer before they are a Tory. I
think many will decide they are a | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
Tory before they are a Remainer. If
Corbyn does that, the other domestic | 0:23:33 | 0:23:37 | |
thing to think about is he crushes
the Liberal Democrats, which is a | 0:23:37 | 0:23:42 | |
long-term Labour Party aim and with
which I don't entirely lack | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
sympathy. He crushes them because?
They have been the pro-European | 0:23:44 | 0:23:52 | |
party but if Labour is pro-European
and laugh and has the potential of | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
getting into government, they hoover
up lots of those Lib Dem votes. The | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
Lib Dems have been fishing for a
long time in the politics of the | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
left-wing, so if Labour is both and
pro-EU... They must watch what | 0:24:04 | 0:24:09 | |
happens on Monday. They do not have
an opportunity, they are not in the | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
equation. I think that Corbyn can
really change the course of this | 0:24:14 | 0:24:21 | |
debate. The question is whether he
has the stomach to do it. You ask | 0:24:21 | 0:24:29 | |
what is the Lib Dem possibilities, I | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
think constructive dispersal.
LAUGHTER I am coming up with more | 0:24:32 | 0:24:38 | |
terms! More vocab. It does not
matter what happens to the Lib Dems. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:44 | |
It matters that Europe is going
forward. There is the budget but | 0:24:44 | 0:24:49 | |
also this Emmanuel Macron idea and
phenomenon. For me, British policy, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:56 | |
there is no leader, there is no
Macron, while Europe has this Macron | 0:24:56 | 0:25:01 | |
who wants to create several state
Europe. If you are right and things | 0:25:01 | 0:25:07 | |
are so unlikely to work out in a
dialogue with the EU, which may be | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
the case, then all the more do we
need to look to our relationships | 0:25:12 | 0:25:15 | |
with the rest of the world and build
trade deals with them. Like it or | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
not, we are leaving the EU. We must
accept that reality. With no | 0:25:19 | 0:25:25 | |
strings?! We must close, I'm sorry
to all of you. Thank you for coming | 0:25:25 | 0:25:32 | |
in. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
That's all we have
time for this week - | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
do join us again next week same time
same place.But for now, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
thank you for watching and goodbye | 0:25:40 | 0:25:42 |