Hugh Thompson - Vietnam Helicopter Pilot, My Lai HARDtalk

When it comes to seeking justice for some of the wrongs committed by

American justice, the record hasn't always been that good. My guest

today flew into the middle of the massacre in Vietnam and stopped the

slaughter. It was more than 30 years before anybody even bother to say

thank you. As the US military now learned the lessons he should have

done from Vietnam? Hugh Thompson, are very warm welcome to the

programme. When you hear allegations of brutality by US troops in Iraq,

Delhi to respect the Geneva conventions, what goes through your

-- Max Bailey. Dad -- failure. -- bad leadership. How could something

happen ladies in the prison that seems to have happened -- happened

in prison. It shouldn't have happened. In 1991, commanders were

told that when they went to desert storm, no My Lai... That made me

feel good echoes I thought we had learnt something. -- because. To get

slapped in the face with this, it is horrendous. You think there will be

a full investigation? You have been part of investigations in the past.

Allah think there will be a full investigation. --I think they're

well. What I knew wasn't made public till afterwards. This didn't take

that long. So it's out there. Technology is better and I think

this could be an investigation. Having people in the military

careers are really ruined. I do think they will walk scot-free this

time, I really don't. When President Nixon first commented on the My Lai

massacre, he said it was an isolated is that -- incident. Was it? I think

it was. I would have very difficult time with myself if I thought that I

was part of something that was done all the time. I didn't see it.

Innocent civilians do get killed in wars. I don't care what army, what

country... But My Lai wasn't that, was it? No, it wasn't. These were

murdered. Lined up, marched down in a ditch. 170 of them. Hands above

their head and executed. That is not war. That is not what a soldier from

any country does. These are murderers. Were you taught about the

Geneva conventions? Yes, sir. In 1971, a soldier goes before a jury

and said he couldn't remember a single army class on the Geneva

convention. His name was rusty Kali. The one man who was found guilty of

the My Lai massacre. I would say he has a very short memory. I will not

say a lot of emphasis went on those classes. Anyone who went through

basic training, just had some instructions. Code of conduct,

Geneva conventions and treatment of... And it know what it was

called. Treatment of prisoners. But standards were set. But I won't say

they emphasised them a lot or really delved into it. It was more or less,

you know, you had to go to this class. It wasn't, you know... It

wasn't a lot of emphasis is being put on it. Hugh Thompson, March 16,

1960 eight, 36 years have gone past. How clear in your mind are the

memories of that day? Certain things to clear. Other things not clear.

What is clear? When you shut your eyes, what do you see? A lot of pain

and suffering by a lot of people. I remember the first girl getting

killed. How was it she killed? Medina walked up and blew her away.

This is one of the commanding officers on the ground? Commanding

officer. He shot her at point-blank range? You saw it in front of your

eyes? Yes. We were just kind of in shock because by that time, we had

already questioned what was going on or what we have seen happen or seen

the aftermath of what had actually happened. But when you landed your

helicopter, it started all over again or were still going on? Yes.

On two different occasions, and then we asked the help and I got a girl

killed and then we asked the help again and we got a bunch of people

killed so it was kind of obvious that asking when getting a mission a

-- accomplished like I thought it had been... So these people shot

right in front of your eyes and at some point you said enough and you

asked your men to turn your their guns on the American soldiers that

were doing this. Yes, sir. We had tried to... I wouldn't say be nice

and friendly but I had asked and we just kind of light append animal in

a cage, I guess. The only way I can think of to get it to stop. If

that's what it would take. That's what we would have to do. Were you

prepared to open fire on fellow American soldiers? Killam -- yes. I

thank God to this date and a lot of days in between that everybody

played it cool and nobody started shooting because I would really hate

to have that on my conscience. But it was something we didn't volunteer

to do. It was an only way out. I felt like we had to take it. You

said in one of the reports that a lot of the girls didn't scream too

much because they had already had their tongues cut out. A bayonet can

kill two real quick if they up pregnant. This is beast yellow tea

on an unbelievable scale, isn't it? -- -- bestiality. One who took

around right through the brain. There was a lot of evil. How do you

carry around the memory of that for 36 years? Went for a long time just,

didn't say anything. And most of the time I'm thinking about it now, I'm

talking to a class of students and if I can reach one person in that

class and make them think to do the right thing, it will be worth it. Do

you have any explanation for why presumably previously normal people

could have butchered their way through over 500 unarmed civilians

on that day? I blame the number one cause, bad leadership. Negative

leadership, bad leadership. That these people killed with their

hands, didn't they? They raked in a murdered. How do you explain

soldiers doing that? The leadership that allows them to do it, negative

peer pressure, prejudiced... Cf. -- fear. Not everybody on the ground

that they took part in it. We put about 190 people on the ground. Only

somewhere between 13 or 18 of them actually took part in what was going

on. The others didn't do anything to stop it, just kind of turned the

other way. You knew what was going on. You could follow whether squads

went -- where the. When you got it to stop, when he threatened your

fellow US soldiers and you got it to stop, he called in assistance, you

called into gunship, you managed to get some children out and get some

survivors out. Civilians, they were children with them. Men, women. I

remember the one little girl. She was hanging onto her mother 's knee.

No, she was probably for six. --4 or six. I could only see three. When

they started coming out, reality started coming in. What in the world

are going to do with these people? I can't leave them here. They are

going to die. I can't get them out of there, I don't have the

capability. That's when I called a friend of mine in and I said, hey,

do me a favour and get them out of the area. You got them out and then

flew back to headquarters. What did you do then? Was very mad. You are

crying, won't you? Yeah. Screaming. And people who outranked me, just

lost it. You can't make me fly. To show that you are a pilot, you had a

set of wings. You wanted to leave. I said I would rip my wings off

because they didn't want to take part in this. There was an

investigation. I think I thought something had been done. But it was

a whitewash because the official Army report, the first Army report

that claimed avec -- great victory and said 128 enemies dead and only

one American casualties. But they knew better because they had your

evidence. Yes. I cannot remember... Everyone lined, did -- didn't they?

-- light. -- lied. There was a report that 20 civilians had been

killed inadvertently. That was a straight lie, wasn't it? And Captain

Medina light, as well. And admitted later in the end that he had lied.

He was the one seen shooting a girl. His scenario when he was on his

court martial, they believed his scenario rather than mine, I guess.

You stayed 13 years in the service after that. It was in the same,

though, was it? As fast as it came up after the court marshalling died

down. That you ostracised. When it first broke and people didn't know

the facts, they forgot all about it very soon after it happened. But

personally, you paid a heavy price in terms of depression, over the

years. A lot of nightmares that you went through. Four marriages. There

has been multiple marriages. It's been hard for you to carry

around? No, life goes on. Can you ever forgive the people who did

that? Note. -- no. Nope, I can't. I don't think I am man enough to. I

know the pain and suffering that was inflicted for no reason, no reason

whatsoever. There was no threat. You know, there was no enemy. They might

have grown up to be enemy, but that's not what a soldier does in

any country. It's just not. And when you think of those who walked away

from it, got on with their lives, had children, set up businesses.

They've got to live with themselves. I imagine some of them don't have an

easy time. I'm OK with what I did. I just, you know, know the unnecessary

pain and suffering and know how fragile human life is. In 1969,

Rusty, the officer on the ground who was eventually held responsible, was

flown back for an identification parade. You were asked to identify

him. What went through your mind? Well, I knew I'd seen him and I

couldn't remember whether it was at the ditch or the bunker. I knew he

was one of them. I blocked a lot of that out of my mind. I think it is

God's way of maintaining sanity. Only 25 officers and enlisted men

were prosecuted. Only a handful of them came to trial. Only one man was

found guilty and he served four and a half months behind bars. I think

three days. Three days? And a little bit of house arrest. Yes, he had

house arrest with conjugal visits. That's a rough life. This was a

farce. Army justice was a farce. The Army justice system is a good system

but I do believe it let us down. I think it let the Army and the United

States down. It let you down as well, didn't it? Yeah, mm-hm. Not

many people said thank you, did they? Nobody said thank you. You

were intimidated, dead animals left on your porch, one of the

Congressmen suggested you should be put behind bars. Mm-hm. So you

didn't get much banks from a grateful nation. I didn't get any.

But it's not the nation's fault. But you stop the killing and Rusty

Calley and the then governor of Georgia was rooting for him, radio

stations were proclaiming him as a hero and due to stop the killing had

been ostracised. Yeah, I had a hard time going into Georgia because

that's where Calley was court marshalled and I think he is

originally from Florida and iron a Georgian native. And I am hearing my

governor on the radio saying, leave your lights on today to show support

for Lieutenant-governor on. I thought, what is this world coming

to? -- Lieutenant Calley. But people didn't have the fax. You believed

the fax a high-ranking congressmen says, it should be true. But low

ranking Congressmen were standing off to the side and asked one

another, was here in the same room I was in? Because they heard that I

said there was a massacre and there was nothing here to indicate there

was any wrongdoing. I couldn't say anything because believe me I was

scared and I thought I was going to go to jail. So I wasn't talking to

anybody. Hugh Thompson, he went back to My Lai. He went back on the 30th

anniversary. There was no official representative from the American

government. Not one. I guess I would be the only representative of the

American government there. You met one of the women who survived,

several people who survived. What did they say to you? Thanked me. One

of them came from out of nowhere, we didn't know she was there. An

interpreter brought her up. She wanted to meet Mr Thomson. Everyone

was kind of shocked. Mr Wallace said, here is Mr Thomson. She wanted

to know why I was very upset. I couldn't answer, sorry I couldn't

help. I had always wondered in my mind... Did somebody there know that

not all Americans were crazy and went mad that day? I wonder if

somebody was trying to help. And I was real happy when she knew we

tried to help. And she thanked me and I told her how -- I was sorry I

couldn't help that they and then going through the interpreter was

really difficult because they only say like half a sentence at a time.

She asked, why didn't the people that had done the killing comeback

with us? And I lost it. I thought, how do you answer this? I was

getting ready to and then she finished the sentence and said, so

we could forgive them. Oh my God... It was over with for me right then

because it just tore me up. These people. Not many people have that

much forgiveness in their hearts and I'm not man enough to forgive the

people who did it. I can't do it. But you lecture, you've lectured in

various places. I call it talking. I don't lecture. You've counselled. I

still work with veterans every day. Trying to help them. And what do you

tell them about My Lai? I don't tell them anything. Now some of the ones

know about it, well, all of them do I guess. I have never talked at a

military or a veterans function where anybody had agreed with me.

You know... I'm not... I don't cut down the brigade or soldier. I think

a soldier in the Army or navy or Marine Corps are very vulnerable

profession. -- honourable. These were not soldiers, these were

hoodlums and terrorists, the skies like soldiers. No soldier is taught

to do that. -- disguised. If he does something like that he's no longer a

soldier, he is not living by the creed of a soldier. I think it's

time to remind people of that, given what's been going on in Iraq. I

think very obviously it's time to remind the game. Hugh Thompson, it's

been good having you on the programme. Thank you. Thank you very

much. I appreciate it.