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Now on BBC News, it's
time for HARDtalk. | 0:00:01 | 0:00:11 | |
Welcome to HARDtalk. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:12 | |
I'm Stephen Sackur. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
Is there a single Russian
who doesn't expect Vladimir Putin | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
to contest next spring's
presidential election | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
and win it easily? | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
Mr Putin has yet to
declare his intentions, | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
but his desire to prolong
his dominance of Russia | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
is surely not in doubt. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
Less certain is whether
the president will face | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
a credible opponent. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
Ksenia Sobchak has
one big advantage - | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
almost universal name recognition
thanks to her TV career | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
but is her candidacy anything more
than a fig leaf for the Kremlin? | 0:00:44 | 0:00:51 | |
Ksenia Sobchak welcome to heart
talk. Thank you. You have a very big | 0:01:20 | 0:01:30 | |
ambition. What are the qualities,
the acids needed to be president of | 0:01:30 | 0:01:35 | |
Russia? First of all, in modern
Russia, the quality which is needed | 0:01:35 | 0:01:42 | |
to challenge Putin and to challenge
him for a change is to be brave | 0:01:42 | 0:01:48 | |
because elections in Russia now are
not elections in Belgium. It is not | 0:01:48 | 0:01:56 | |
like trying to become Prime Minister
in not very big European country. | 0:01:56 | 0:02:01 | |
Here, when you come into politics,
you can face very big problems and | 0:02:01 | 0:02:10 | |
there were already braids in my
home, all my work was finished after | 0:02:10 | 0:02:17 | |
I said about my political views is a
goat and my life changed | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
dramatically when I first went out
on the street. -- years ago. Now, | 0:02:21 | 0:02:29 | |
when I take the challenge, I read it
lies the risks that come with it and | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
that the situation can be harsh for
me. Bravery seems important to you | 0:02:34 | 0:02:40 | |
and I understand why and I would
like to talk to you about what you | 0:02:40 | 0:02:45 | |
have experienced since joining the
activist opposition but I am | 0:02:45 | 0:02:50 | |
surprised you do not use any words
like experience, knowledge, an | 0:02:50 | 0:02:56 | |
encounter in the past with managing
something sick if it can. You are a | 0:02:56 | 0:03:01 | |
woman in your 30s, you have no
experience of that can possibly the | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
relevant to becoming president of
Russia. That is why I did not | 0:03:06 | 0:03:11 | |
mention experience because now in
Russian politics, to be brave, to be | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
persistent, are the main qualities.
I am not a politician, I am a | 0:03:16 | 0:03:23 | |
person, a journalist who knows the
situation in my country is unjust | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
and I would love that may country
would have fair elections were | 0:03:27 | 0:03:34 | |
everyone, people with big
experiences, with different | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
political views, could take part and
debate and I could come back home | 0:03:36 | 0:03:42 | |
and do my job. No, it is not like
this. There are not so many people | 0:03:42 | 0:03:49 | |
willing to take this challenge so I
think it is my responsibility to be | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
raised, to be persistent and to try
to change. Around me, there are are | 0:03:53 | 0:03:59 | |
a lot of experts, a lot of people
with the knowledge of economies, | 0:03:59 | 0:04:04 | |
politics, of institutions of Russia
stopped they are part of my team and | 0:04:04 | 0:04:10 | |
they are helping me to form a big
programme and to be together. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
Usually, with politicians all one of
the politicians, I am testing the | 0:04:13 | 0:04:22 | |
resolve and ability to do their job.
He did not even seem to believe in | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
yourself that you have what it takes
to do your job because when you are | 0:04:26 | 0:04:32 | |
launching your campaign, he said I
have no political weight, I have not | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
earned the right to stand as a
candidate. No, Stephen. It is not | 0:04:36 | 0:04:44 | |
like this. I would say again, I
think the most important thing in | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
Russia is not to change the system
and this is the most important part | 0:04:48 | 0:04:53 | |
of this programme. I forming a big
programme with lots of experts on | 0:04:53 | 0:05:01 | |
economy and different kinds of
things but I want to stress one | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
thing, this is not that important
now because we can release all the | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
programmes in the world but they
never managed to come to life | 0:05:09 | 0:05:13 | |
because the system itself is so that
any programme you offer it is always | 0:05:13 | 0:05:21 | |
rejected so what is the point of
being hypocritical. Let's say the | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
truth, that the main thing is to
change the system. There needs to be | 0:05:26 | 0:05:31 | |
a credible agent of change and I
would say that to many people you | 0:05:31 | 0:05:36 | |
are not a credible agent of change.
If we look at the record- you were a | 0:05:36 | 0:05:43 | |
reality TV star... It was 15 years
ago. You also hosted the reality | 0:05:43 | 0:05:49 | |
show, Dom-2... I was the first
journalist of the world who took an | 0:05:49 | 0:05:58 | |
interview... You have also sold a
fragrance on how to marry a | 0:05:58 | 0:06:07 | |
millionaire... It was 15 years ago.
I would suggest your track record is | 0:06:07 | 0:06:15 | |
not someone who is serious in
becoming president of Russia. We | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
haven't great film in Russia, in the
end, the Hiro of the movie sets, the | 0:06:20 | 0:06:27 | |
most awful things in this world were
done with the most serious face so | 0:06:27 | 0:06:32 | |
people first laugh at you but then
they fight with it and then you win. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
As you know, they're saying. I am
not afraid of being ridiculed. I.e. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:44 | |
No am not ridiculous. I know I have
done a huge job. --I know I am not | 0:06:44 | 0:06:52 | |
ridiculous. I am working on the all
Independent TV channel, I make a lot | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
of journalist report and done a lot
of interviews I helped Alexei | 0:06:57 | 0:07:03 | |
Navalny... We will get with Alexei
Navalny in just a moment because his | 0:07:03 | 0:07:09 | |
views on the York candid and see a
report but you said to me, do not | 0:07:09 | 0:07:14 | |
judge me... Let me finish... The
point is this is a question and | 0:07:14 | 0:07:22 | |
answer. You said Judge me on the
people you have around you. One | 0:07:22 | 0:07:31 | |
person who two weeks after you hide
him left the campaign saying it was | 0:07:31 | 0:07:37 | |
chaotic and are designed on the back
of a cigarette packet. One to answer | 0:07:37 | 0:07:43 | |
the question about my profession.
That rings AU mentioned happened 50 | 0:07:43 | 0:07:48 | |
years ago, that is a huge time.
People have a ready come away from | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
prison and begin their life. I
started my career as a journalist | 0:07:52 | 0:07:58 | |
and I did a lot of sensational work,
not only in terms of Russia but in | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
terms of international journalistic
work so I think this itself gives me | 0:08:03 | 0:08:09 | |
the right to present myself in a
different way... Interesting you say | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
that. I have been a journalist for
30 years and I not sure that | 0:08:14 | 0:08:20 | |
qualifies me to be Prime Minister of
the UK... When I came to the | 0:08:20 | 0:08:26 | |
campaign I had zero people who
really believed in what I do. Now, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:32 | |
it is already 10%, more than the
last it elections. 10%... Another | 0:08:32 | 0:08:45 | |
poll has yet at 1% and another poll
has your disapproval... You can | 0:08:45 | 0:08:51 | |
check the numbers are... 9% saying
they might support you but it | 0:08:51 | 0:08:57 | |
suggests that more than 60%
disapprove of you and only 20% | 0:08:57 | 0:09:03 | |
approved. Your negatives are very
high. What is a 20% out of 95% of | 0:09:03 | 0:09:10 | |
people knowing? It is a huge number.
It could be the second place in | 0:09:10 | 0:09:17 | |
those elections and even the first
place if people really believe they | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
can change the situation. 20% is
really a lot. You -- your campaign | 0:09:21 | 0:09:32 | |
manager left after two weeks. Alexei
Navalny, the leading anti- Putin | 0:09:32 | 0:09:38 | |
said when he first learnt you were
going to be a candidate. He said | 0:09:38 | 0:09:44 | |
this is a loathsome Kremlin game...
You at telling a non- truth. He said | 0:09:44 | 0:09:52 | |
it before I went to the election...
When your neighbour was put forward | 0:09:52 | 0:09:57 | |
a... That was two weeks before I put
my name. This again is called let's | 0:09:57 | 0:10:04 | |
put a Liberal laughing stock up for
elections... When your name was | 0:10:04 | 0:10:10 | |
mooted. In order to distract
attention. Alexei Navalny sees you | 0:10:10 | 0:10:17 | |
as someone fundamentally
unserious... Not now. After I put my | 0:10:17 | 0:10:23 | |
name and said I will take part in
the elections, I have not heard | 0:10:23 | 0:10:29 | |
anything critical off Alexei
Navalny's leaps. You can check these | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
information. -- lips. Are you
suggesting to me that Alexei Navalny | 0:10:35 | 0:10:44 | |
is supporting your campaign? I
hoping that he will register to | 0:10:44 | 0:10:49 | |
support me. He will not be
registered by unlawful laws made | 0:10:49 | 0:10:57 | |
against him so if we are fighting
for the same goal, and I think we | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
are, I offer him this option to be,
you know, the person who just opens | 0:11:02 | 0:11:09 | |
the door. I am the one to be
registered and I hope together with | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
him that we can fight for that best
future in Russia. He said that if | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
Alexei Navalny is allowed to run for
the elections, you have said... It | 0:11:19 | 0:11:26 | |
is unlawful not to make him run
it... Your position still stand that | 0:11:26 | 0:11:32 | |
if the electoral committee changes
its mind and Alexei Navalny is | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
allowed to run at you would act
down? Of course because of Alexei | 0:11:35 | 0:11:40 | |
Navalny has much more political
weight than I do. I really respect | 0:11:40 | 0:11:46 | |
his work. He is a hero in many ways
stop if this opportunity for him | 0:11:46 | 0:11:51 | |
would be open, of course, I think we
should unite behind one leader and | 0:11:51 | 0:11:58 | |
he is a good leader... If not... I
did not finish. But Mr... Alexei | 0:11:58 | 0:12:08 | |
Navalny disagrees. He says he will
not help you gather this is the | 0:12:08 | 0:12:14 | |
signatures you need but it would be
better to boycott this Sharat. I | 0:12:14 | 0:12:20 | |
have not heard Alexei Navalny saying
this. Anyway, I do not think and do | 0:12:20 | 0:12:28 | |
not think it is a good idea to have
a boycott because sitting at home, | 0:12:28 | 0:12:33 | |
no country has ever change. The
chief spokesman for Mr Putin | 0:12:33 | 0:12:38 | |
actually welcomed... As soon as you
he will come due. This is what they | 0:12:38 | 0:12:48 | |
are doing every day, trying to hug
it to death, trying to say to people | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
that she is Kremlin's candidate.
This is their dirty game. If you | 0:12:52 | 0:13:00 | |
know what they did yesterday, I will
tell you, are part of the | 0:13:00 | 0:13:07 | |
presidential administrator goes to
the election as a candidate, saying | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
he goes against Putin but it is
laughable. He goes against me. This | 0:13:11 | 0:13:17 | |
is a dirty game they play stop from
one side they say we want her to be | 0:13:17 | 0:13:23 | |
part of us but I do not want to be
part of them. They are trying to hug | 0:13:23 | 0:13:28 | |
me so tight in their rounds and they
sent a spoiler to my campaign, a | 0:13:28 | 0:13:34 | |
person who worked in the
administration of the President... | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
This is laughable. Let's test this
proposition that you truly, truly | 0:13:38 | 0:13:44 | |
are an opponent committed to
bringing Putin down. Alexei Navalny | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
said that the difference is that
Vladimir Putin has not helped my | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
family, because Vladimir Putin was
the protege of your family. I am | 0:13:53 | 0:14:00 | |
sorry to disappoint you and the
disappoint Alexei Navalny but it is | 0:14:00 | 0:14:06 | |
better to say that Vladimir Putin
was a protege of my father. I father | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
was an M O U... When a Vladimir
Putin was a junior official... No | 0:14:10 | 0:14:17 | |
one helped my father whatsoever. It
is my father who helped Putin to | 0:14:17 | 0:14:23 | |
work with him and Putin was one of
the people he worked with. But I was | 0:14:23 | 0:14:30 | |
attending his old at this time. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:36 | |
Why have you always avoided saying
Putin himself was deeply corrupt, as | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
Navalny puts it, the father of
Russian corruption? You have never | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
attacked Putin personally, when
Boris Nemtsov was assassinated, and | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
many critics of Putin said Putin was
behind it, you said absolutely not, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
that is not what Vladimir Putin
would do. Why do you defend him in | 0:14:53 | 0:14:58 | |
this way? I am not defending him, I
am just telling the truth, even if | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
it is politically not unsuitable. I
really think Putin didn't sent | 0:15:02 | 0:15:07 | |
anyone to kill Nemtsov. I know it is
beyond what he would decide. Nemtsov | 0:15:07 | 0:15:14 | |
was not an enemy. How do you know
that? I am just totally sure of the | 0:15:14 | 0:15:20 | |
principles on which I stand. He
would never do it like this. At the | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
beginning of this interview you told
me you have had rates, that you have | 0:15:24 | 0:15:29 | |
been intimidated, that you have to
be brave to be a politician in | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
Russia today. Not to kill someone
near the Kremlin is something to do | 0:15:32 | 0:15:39 | |
against not only their position, but
also against Putin, because, you | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
know, this situation would be a
really harsh situation for Putin | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
himself. Look on someone in the
opposition is killed on the streets | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
right near the Kremlin. And Nemtsov,
I respect him very much and consider | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
him to be my friend, but he was not
a political figure with a lot of | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
weight at that moment, and this is
also true. So there was no sense of | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
killing him, because he was not a
threat to Putin at that moment. So | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
on that level you are saying that
you don't believe Putin has that in | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
him. But, on another level, having
told me that you deeply respect Mr | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
Navalny, and you regard him as the
Leader of the Opposition... Yes,. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
Would you echoed Mr Navalny's
position that Putin is himself the | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
father of Russian corruption, and
that the people around Mr Putin are | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
the most corrupt of all. Would you
agree with that? I say there's a lot | 0:16:29 | 0:16:35 | |
of times and I would also mention
that I personally make a lot of | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
effort into some of the
investigations of Navalny, and you | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
can speak with him, and he will
confirm it to you. At least two of | 0:16:41 | 0:16:46 | |
his investigations were done with my
help. So of course I think the whole | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
system is corrupt, and the whole...
Of course the system was built by | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
Putin. So you would like to see
Putin investigated and charged? At | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
what I am saying that I don't like,
when people personally insulting, | 0:16:57 | 0:17:03 | |
and Navalny is also doing this. He
was coming in the square and saying, | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
look, he has Botox in his face. This
I detest. I don't like to speak | 0:17:06 | 0:17:11 | |
personally bad about... But you are
accusing Mr Putin of Kringle | 0:17:11 | 0:17:17 | |
corruption, aren't you? I am not
saying the way he looks, or I don't | 0:17:17 | 0:17:21 | |
call him with some words. Forget
about his looks, I am interested in | 0:17:21 | 0:17:26 | |
his criminal corruption. Do you want
to see Vladimir Putin put on trial? | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
I want to see an independent trial
of all the cases of corruption in | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
Russia. Of course, yes. Including Mr
Putin? . Also I have a very | 0:17:34 | 0:17:39 | |
important goal which I have to
reach, with Navalny or without | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
Navalny. I want to build in Russia
party after those elections. A | 0:17:42 | 0:17:50 | |
strong party with strong leadership,
which 46 next year can come to the | 0:17:50 | 0:17:55 | |
next presidential elections with a
really big result. -- for six. In | 0:17:55 | 0:18:04 | |
order to have evolution, and not
revolution of the system. It is not | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
accusations harsh on a person. It is
accusations with fact, which should | 0:18:08 | 0:18:14 | |
be placed. This is what I think is
very important. What did you really | 0:18:14 | 0:18:20 | |
mean when you said this? A higher
transfer of power, the likes of | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
which Mr Navalny is advocating, is a
dead end. You say that your ideal | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
transformation would be led by
democratic politicians, that Mr | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
Putin can trust, like for example,
former deputy PM. You seem to be | 0:18:32 | 0:18:41 | |
saying that actually you prefer
Putin in power with some technocrats | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
around him and the more liberal
advisers. This is not what I meant. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
Then you would Mr Navalny, who you
respect so much. I just said and I | 0:18:49 | 0:18:55 | |
can say once again that between
evolution and revolution I would | 0:18:55 | 0:19:00 | |
always choose revolution. And if
this way would be done by Putin or | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
by someone else, I think it is the
best way for Russia. The | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
evolutionary way of liberalisation.
The new Paris Troika. This is my | 0:19:09 | 0:19:14 | |
main goal. I don't want another
revolution on the streets, because | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
this will be blood, and we know how
it ends up. What I am continuing to | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
wrestle with this simple idea of
where you actually set when it comes | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
to Vladimir Putin and power --
Perestroika. I don't sit with | 0:19:26 | 0:19:29 | |
Vladimir Putin. Well, could at some
confusion for me. I sat with my | 0:19:29 | 0:19:34 | |
father when I was ten years old, but
you know, children sometimes really | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
revolt against the system created by
someone close to their parents. That | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
is quite logical. All right, well,
clear up one other element of | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
confusion for me, and this concerns
Russia's overseas policy, its | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
foreign policy, and of course, in
particular its policy in Ukraine and | 0:19:50 | 0:19:54 | |
Crimea. Now, in 2014, after the
annexation, you tweeted am I alone | 0:19:54 | 0:20:00 | |
and proud, because you had picked up
on some Twitter comment criticising | 0:20:00 | 0:20:05 | |
the annexation. You said I am alone
and proud in believing it was a | 0:20:05 | 0:20:10 | |
brilliant political manoeuvre. Yes,
but I didn't set about myself. A | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
brilliant political manoeuvre. Yes,
but you are not translating at the | 0:20:14 | 0:20:18 | |
right way. I was answering someone
about Putin thinking something of | 0:20:18 | 0:20:23 | |
Crimea, and the idea, I still say
it, that for Putin, in his mind, | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
that is a brilliant solution, and he
thinks that this is the best | 0:20:27 | 0:20:31 | |
historical thing he did for Russia.
And you will see it on the | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
elections. It will be the main thing
of his campaign. I made Crimea that | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
to Russia. So in his mind, this was
a brilliant thing, not in mine. So | 0:20:38 | 0:20:45 | |
when you are saying you are proud to
believe it was a brilliant and | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
political manoeuvre, you only
looking at it from his point of | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
view. Of course. I see. Well,
frankly, you didn't choose to tweak | 0:20:52 | 0:20:56 | |
your absolute condemnation of the
annexation of Crimea at the time, | 0:20:56 | 0:21:00 | |
but you have done since. You now say
Crimea is Ukrainian. I was this in | 0:21:00 | 0:21:07 | |
the dialogue about Putin, -- putting
myself into the shoes of Putin, who | 0:21:07 | 0:21:12 | |
would of course be proud of this.
This is his main thing he is proud | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
of. I see, I see. And this is how we
stand. We haven't time to go through | 0:21:16 | 0:21:22 | |
all of your policies, on the
economy, foreign policy, everything | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
else. Let's do it. Well, we don't
have time, but Russia is in a really | 0:21:25 | 0:21:31 | |
difficult place economically. There
are still sanctions on the country, | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
your growth rate is 1% this year.
You are very vulnerable to shifts in | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
commodity prices. Do you believe,
going back to this question of | 0:21:38 | 0:21:42 | |
experience, that you have the
ability to turn Russia around? I | 0:21:42 | 0:21:54 | |
have an ability to create another
system. And the system itself will | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
create another economy, a free
economy of trade, a free economy of | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
innovations. The things that are
needed is the changing of power, so | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
the Parliamentary Republic, very
strong government, instead of very | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
strong president. I think the most
important thing for Russia at this | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
moment is to change presidential
republic to Parliamentary Republic, | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
because this will make those powers
dissolve between different centres | 0:22:13 | 0:22:21 | |
in the government. This is very
important, and this is what I fight | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
for. After this would be done, I
believe strongly that, to build an | 0:22:25 | 0:22:31 | |
economy based on liberal principles,
based on property, not owned by | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
government, but I business and
people who really work on it, will | 0:22:36 | 0:22:41 | |
be a matter of not really big-time.
If, come March of next year, you are | 0:22:41 | 0:22:48 | |
the main, quote unquote opposition
candidates, fighting Vladimir | 0:22:48 | 0:22:54 | |
Putin... I am not quote unquote, I
am an Opposition Leader. And what | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
happens is this, and it is the most
likely scenario, according to all | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
the polls, that Vladimir Putin
scores an overwhelming, huge | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
victory, and the Kremlin says, look,
it was entirely legitimate, we had a | 0:23:05 | 0:23:09 | |
real election, there was a choice.
The choice was Putin against | 0:23:09 | 0:23:16 | |
Sobchak, and Sobchak one -- Putin
won a very, very big mandate. How | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
will you feel about that? Will you
feel like a useful idiot? It will be | 0:23:21 | 0:23:28 | |
legitimate, because your Prime
Minister or the President of America | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
would be the first ones to call and
legitimated for Mr Putin, by their | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
congratulations. Or maybe have some
doubts that your Prime Minister | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
won't do it? So in your own words,
you will be very useful | 0:23:42 | 0:23:47 | |
legitimating... It is not because of
me taking part in those elections. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
It is I fight for my people. I want
them to be heard. I want Mr Putin to | 0:23:50 | 0:23:55 | |
see how many people are against him
in our country, because there are | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
many people who are against his
policy. Senior Sobchak, we have two | 0:23:59 | 0:24:09 | |
end there, but thank you very much
for being on HARDtalk. Thank you, | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
thank you. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 |