Ksenia Sobchak, Russian presidential candidate HARDtalk


Ksenia Sobchak, Russian presidential candidate

Similar Content

Browse content similar to Ksenia Sobchak, Russian presidential candidate. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Now on BBC News, it's

time for HARDtalk.

0:00:010:00:11

Welcome to HARDtalk.

0:00:110:00:12

I'm Stephen Sackur.

0:00:120:00:14

Is there a single Russian

who doesn't expect Vladimir Putin

0:00:140:00:16

to contest next spring's

presidential election

0:00:170:00:20

and win it easily?

0:00:200:00:22

Mr Putin has yet to

declare his intentions,

0:00:220:00:25

but his desire to prolong

his dominance of Russia

0:00:250:00:28

is surely not in doubt.

0:00:280:00:32

Less certain is whether

the president will face

0:00:320:00:34

a credible opponent.

0:00:340:00:39

Ksenia Sobchak has

one big advantage -

0:00:400:00:42

almost universal name recognition

thanks to her TV career

0:00:420:00:44

but is her candidacy anything more

than a fig leaf for the Kremlin?

0:00:440:00:51

Ksenia Sobchak welcome to heart

talk. Thank you. You have a very big

0:01:200:01:30

ambition. What are the qualities,

the acids needed to be president of

0:01:300:01:35

Russia?

First of all, in modern

Russia, the quality which is needed

0:01:350:01:42

to challenge Putin and to challenge

him for a change is to be brave

0:01:420:01:48

because elections in Russia now are

not elections in Belgium. It is not

0:01:480:01:56

like trying to become Prime Minister

in not very big European country.

0:01:560:02:01

Here, when you come into politics,

you can face very big problems and

0:02:010:02:10

there were already braids in my

home, all my work was finished after

0:02:100:02:17

I said about my political views is a

goat and my life changed

0:02:170:02:21

dramatically when I first went out

on the street. -- years ago. Now,

0:02:210:02:29

when I take the challenge, I read it

lies the risks that come with it and

0:02:290:02:34

that the situation can be harsh for

me.

Bravery seems important to you

0:02:340:02:40

and I understand why and I would

like to talk to you about what you

0:02:400:02:45

have experienced since joining the

activist opposition but I am

0:02:450:02:50

surprised you do not use any words

like experience, knowledge, an

0:02:500:02:56

encounter in the past with managing

something sick if it can. You are a

0:02:560:03:01

woman in your 30s, you have no

experience of that can possibly the

0:03:010:03:06

relevant to becoming president of

Russia.

That is why I did not

0:03:060:03:11

mention experience because now in

Russian politics, to be brave, to be

0:03:110:03:16

persistent, are the main qualities.

I am not a politician, I am a

0:03:160:03:23

person, a journalist who knows the

situation in my country is unjust

0:03:230:03:27

and I would love that may country

would have fair elections were

0:03:270:03:34

everyone, people with big

experiences, with different

0:03:340:03:36

political views, could take part and

debate and I could come back home

0:03:360:03:42

and do my job. No, it is not like

this. There are not so many people

0:03:420:03:49

willing to take this challenge so I

think it is my responsibility to be

0:03:490:03:53

raised, to be persistent and to try

to change. Around me, there are are

0:03:530:03:59

a lot of experts, a lot of people

with the knowledge of economies,

0:03:590:04:04

politics, of institutions of Russia

stopped they are part of my team and

0:04:040:04:10

they are helping me to form a big

programme and to be together.

0:04:100:04:13

Usually, with politicians all one of

the politicians, I am testing the

0:04:130:04:22

resolve and ability to do their job.

He did not even seem to believe in

0:04:220:04:26

yourself that you have what it takes

to do your job because when you are

0:04:260:04:32

launching your campaign, he said I

have no political weight, I have not

0:04:320:04:36

earned the right to stand as a

candidate.

No, Stephen. It is not

0:04:360:04:44

like this. I would say again, I

think the most important thing in

0:04:440:04:48

Russia is not to change the system

and this is the most important part

0:04:480:04:53

of this programme. I forming a big

programme with lots of experts on

0:04:530:05:01

economy and different kinds of

things but I want to stress one

0:05:010:05:05

thing, this is not that important

now because we can release all the

0:05:050:05:09

programmes in the world but they

never managed to come to life

0:05:090:05:13

because the system itself is so that

any programme you offer it is always

0:05:130:05:21

rejected so what is the point of

being hypocritical. Let's say the

0:05:210:05:26

truth, that the main thing is to

change the system.

There needs to be

0:05:260:05:31

a credible agent of change and I

would say that to many people you

0:05:310:05:36

are not a credible agent of change.

If we look at the record- you were a

0:05:360:05:43

reality TV star... It was 15 years

ago. You also hosted the reality

0:05:430:05:49

show, Dom-2...

I was the first

journalist of the world who took an

0:05:490:05:58

interview...

You have also sold a

fragrance on how to marry a

0:05:580:06:07

millionaire...

It was 15 years ago.

I would suggest your track record is

0:06:070:06:15

not someone who is serious in

becoming president of Russia.

We

0:06:150:06:20

haven't great film in Russia, in the

end, the Hiro of the movie sets, the

0:06:200:06:27

most awful things in this world were

done with the most serious face so

0:06:270:06:32

people first laugh at you but then

they fight with it and then you win.

0:06:320:06:36

As you know, they're saying. I am

not afraid of being ridiculed. I.e.

0:06:360:06:44

No am not ridiculous. I know I have

done a huge job. --I know I am not

0:06:440:06:52

ridiculous. I am working on the all

Independent TV channel, I make a lot

0:06:520:06:57

of journalist report and done a lot

of interviews I helped Alexei

0:06:570:07:03

Navalny...

We will get with Alexei

Navalny in just a moment because his

0:07:030:07:09

views on the York candid and see a

report but you said to me, do not

0:07:090:07:14

judge me...

Let me finish...

The

point is this is a question and

0:07:140:07:22

answer. You said Judge me on the

people you have around you. One

0:07:220:07:31

person who two weeks after you hide

him left the campaign saying it was

0:07:310:07:37

chaotic and are designed on the back

of a cigarette packet.

One to answer

0:07:370:07:43

the question about my profession.

That rings AU mentioned happened 50

0:07:430:07:48

years ago, that is a huge time.

People have a ready come away from

0:07:480:07:52

prison and begin their life. I

started my career as a journalist

0:07:520:07:58

and I did a lot of sensational work,

not only in terms of Russia but in

0:07:580:08:03

terms of international journalistic

work so I think this itself gives me

0:08:030:08:09

the right to present myself in a

different way...

Interesting you say

0:08:090:08:14

that. I have been a journalist for

30 years and I not sure that

0:08:140:08:20

qualifies me to be Prime Minister of

the UK...

When I came to the

0:08:200:08:26

campaign I had zero people who

really believed in what I do. Now,

0:08:260:08:32

it is already 10%, more than the

last it elections. 10%...

Another

0:08:320:08:45

poll has yet at 1% and another poll

has your disapproval... You can

0:08:450:08:51

check the numbers are... 9% saying

they might support you but it

0:08:510:08:57

suggests that more than 60%

disapprove of you and only 20%

0:08:570:09:03

approved. Your negatives are very

high.

What is a 20% out of 95% of

0:09:030:09:10

people knowing? It is a huge number.

It could be the second place in

0:09:100:09:17

those elections and even the first

place if people really believe they

0:09:170:09:21

can change the situation.

20% is

really a lot. You -- your campaign

0:09:210:09:32

manager left after two weeks. Alexei

Navalny, the leading anti- Putin

0:09:320:09:38

said when he first learnt you were

going to be a candidate. He said

0:09:380:09:44

this is a loathsome Kremlin game...

You at telling a non- truth. He said

0:09:440:09:52

it before I went to the election...

When your neighbour was put forward

0:09:520:09:57

a... That was two weeks before I put

my name.

This again is called let's

0:09:570:10:04

put a Liberal laughing stock up for

elections... When your name was

0:10:040:10:10

mooted. In order to distract

attention. Alexei Navalny sees you

0:10:100:10:17

as someone fundamentally

unserious...

Not now. After I put my

0:10:170:10:23

name and said I will take part in

the elections, I have not heard

0:10:230:10:29

anything critical off Alexei

Navalny's leaps. You can check these

0:10:290:10:35

information. -- lips.

Are you

suggesting to me that Alexei Navalny

0:10:350:10:44

is supporting your campaign?

I

hoping that he will register to

0:10:440:10:49

support me. He will not be

registered by unlawful laws made

0:10:490:10:57

against him so if we are fighting

for the same goal, and I think we

0:10:570:11:02

are, I offer him this option to be,

you know, the person who just opens

0:11:020:11:09

the door. I am the one to be

registered and I hope together with

0:11:090:11:14

him that we can fight for that best

future in Russia.

He said that if

0:11:140:11:19

Alexei Navalny is allowed to run for

the elections, you have said...

It

0:11:190:11:26

is unlawful not to make him run

it...

Your position still stand that

0:11:260:11:32

if the electoral committee changes

its mind and Alexei Navalny is

0:11:320:11:35

allowed to run at you would act

down?

Of course because of Alexei

0:11:350:11:40

Navalny has much more political

weight than I do. I really respect

0:11:400:11:46

his work. He is a hero in many ways

stop if this opportunity for him

0:11:460:11:51

would be open, of course, I think we

should unite behind one leader and

0:11:510:11:58

he is a good leader... If not... I

did not finish. But Mr...

Alexei

0:11:580:12:08

Navalny disagrees. He says he will

not help you gather this is the

0:12:080:12:14

signatures you need but it would be

better to boycott this Sharat.

I

0:12:140:12:20

have not heard Alexei Navalny saying

this. Anyway, I do not think and do

0:12:200:12:28

not think it is a good idea to have

a boycott because sitting at home,

0:12:280:12:33

no country has ever change.

The

chief spokesman for Mr Putin

0:12:330:12:38

actually welcomed... As soon as you

he will come due.

This is what they

0:12:380:12:48

are doing every day, trying to hug

it to death, trying to say to people

0:12:480:12:52

that she is Kremlin's candidate.

This is their dirty game. If you

0:12:520:13:00

know what they did yesterday, I will

tell you, are part of the

0:13:000:13:07

presidential administrator goes to

the election as a candidate, saying

0:13:070:13:11

he goes against Putin but it is

laughable. He goes against me. This

0:13:110:13:17

is a dirty game they play stop from

one side they say we want her to be

0:13:170:13:23

part of us but I do not want to be

part of them. They are trying to hug

0:13:230:13:28

me so tight in their rounds and they

sent a spoiler to my campaign, a

0:13:280:13:34

person who worked in the

administration of the President...

0:13:340:13:38

This is laughable. Let's test this

proposition that you truly, truly

0:13:380:13:44

are an opponent committed to

bringing Putin down. Alexei Navalny

0:13:440:13:48

said that the difference is that

Vladimir Putin has not helped my

0:13:480:13:53

family, because Vladimir Putin was

the protege of your family.

I am

0:13:530:14:00

sorry to disappoint you and the

disappoint Alexei Navalny but it is

0:14:000:14:06

better to say that Vladimir Putin

was a protege of my father. I father

0:14:060:14:10

was an M O U...

When a Vladimir

Putin was a junior official...

No

0:14:100:14:17

one helped my father whatsoever. It

is my father who helped Putin to

0:14:170:14:23

work with him and Putin was one of

the people he worked with. But I was

0:14:230:14:30

attending his old at this time.

0:14:300:14:36

Why have you always avoided saying

Putin himself was deeply corrupt, as

0:14:360:14:40

Navalny puts it, the father of

Russian corruption? You have never

0:14:400:14:44

attacked Putin personally, when

Boris Nemtsov was assassinated, and

0:14:440:14:48

many critics of Putin said Putin was

behind it, you said absolutely not,

0:14:480:14:53

that is not what Vladimir Putin

would do. Why do you defend him in

0:14:530:14:58

this way?

I am not defending him, I

am just telling the truth, even if

0:14:580:15:02

it is politically not unsuitable. I

really think Putin didn't sent

0:15:020:15:07

anyone to kill Nemtsov. I know it is

beyond what he would decide. Nemtsov

0:15:070:15:14

was not an enemy.

How do you know

that?

I am just totally sure of the

0:15:140:15:20

principles on which I stand. He

would never do it like this.

At the

0:15:200:15:24

beginning of this interview you told

me you have had rates, that you have

0:15:240:15:29

been intimidated, that you have to

be brave to be a politician in

0:15:290:15:32

Russia today.

Not to kill someone

near the Kremlin is something to do

0:15:320:15:39

against not only their position, but

also against Putin, because, you

0:15:390:15:43

know, this situation would be a

really harsh situation for Putin

0:15:430:15:46

himself. Look on someone in the

opposition is killed on the streets

0:15:460:15:50

right near the Kremlin. And Nemtsov,

I respect him very much and consider

0:15:500:15:55

him to be my friend, but he was not

a political figure with a lot of

0:15:550:15:59

weight at that moment, and this is

also true. So there was no sense of

0:15:590:16:03

killing him, because he was not a

threat to Putin at that moment.

So

0:16:030:16:07

on that level you are saying that

you don't believe Putin has that in

0:16:070:16:11

him. But, on another level, having

told me that you deeply respect Mr

0:16:110:16:15

Navalny, and you regard him as the

Leader of the Opposition...

Yes,.

0:16:150:16:20

Would you echoed Mr Navalny's

position that Putin is himself the

0:16:200:16:25

father of Russian corruption, and

that the people around Mr Putin are

0:16:250:16:29

the most corrupt of all. Would you

agree with that?

I say there's a lot

0:16:290:16:35

of times and I would also mention

that I personally make a lot of

0:16:350:16:39

effort into some of the

investigations of Navalny, and you

0:16:390:16:41

can speak with him, and he will

confirm it to you. At least two of

0:16:410:16:46

his investigations were done with my

help. So of course I think the whole

0:16:460:16:49

system is corrupt, and the whole...

Of course the system was built by

0:16:490:16:53

Putin.

So you would like to see

Putin investigated and charged?

At

0:16:530:16:57

what I am saying that I don't like,

when people personally insulting,

0:16:570:17:03

and Navalny is also doing this. He

was coming in the square and saying,

0:17:030:17:06

look, he has Botox in his face. This

I detest. I don't like to speak

0:17:060:17:11

personally bad about...

But you are

accusing Mr Putin of Kringle

0:17:110:17:17

corruption, aren't you?

I am not

saying the way he looks, or I don't

0:17:170:17:21

call him with some words.

Forget

about his looks, I am interested in

0:17:210:17:26

his criminal corruption. Do you want

to see Vladimir Putin put on trial?

0:17:260:17:30

I want to see an independent trial

of all the cases of corruption in

0:17:300:17:34

Russia. Of course, yes.

Including Mr

Putin?

. Also I have a very

0:17:340:17:39

important goal which I have to

reach, with Navalny or without

0:17:390:17:42

Navalny. I want to build in Russia

party after those elections. A

0:17:420:17:50

strong party with strong leadership,

which 46 next year can come to the

0:17:500:17:55

next presidential elections with a

really big result. -- for six. In

0:17:550:18:04

order to have evolution, and not

revolution of the system. It is not

0:18:040:18:08

accusations harsh on a person. It is

accusations with fact, which should

0:18:080:18:14

be placed. This is what I think is

very important.

What did you really

0:18:140:18:20

mean when you said this? A higher

transfer of power, the likes of

0:18:200:18:24

which Mr Navalny is advocating, is a

dead end. You say that your ideal

0:18:240:18:28

transformation would be led by

democratic politicians, that Mr

0:18:280:18:32

Putin can trust, like for example,

former deputy PM. You seem to be

0:18:320:18:41

saying that actually you prefer

Putin in power with some technocrats

0:18:410:18:45

around him and the more liberal

advisers.

This is not what I meant.

0:18:450:18:49

Then you would Mr Navalny, who you

respect so much.

I just said and I

0:18:490:18:55

can say once again that between

evolution and revolution I would

0:18:550:19:00

always choose revolution. And if

this way would be done by Putin or

0:19:000:19:04

by someone else, I think it is the

best way for Russia. The

0:19:040:19:09

evolutionary way of liberalisation.

The new Paris Troika. This is my

0:19:090:19:14

main goal. I don't want another

revolution on the streets, because

0:19:140:19:18

this will be blood, and we know how

it ends up.

What I am continuing to

0:19:180:19:22

wrestle with this simple idea of

where you actually set when it comes

0:19:220:19:26

to Vladimir Putin and power --

Perestroika.

I don't sit with

0:19:260:19:29

Vladimir Putin.

Well, could at some

confusion for me.

I sat with my

0:19:290:19:34

father when I was ten years old, but

you know, children sometimes really

0:19:340:19:38

revolt against the system created by

someone close to their parents. That

0:19:380:19:42

is quite logical.

All right, well,

clear up one other element of

0:19:420:19:46

confusion for me, and this concerns

Russia's overseas policy, its

0:19:460:19:50

foreign policy, and of course, in

particular its policy in Ukraine and

0:19:500:19:54

Crimea. Now, in 2014, after the

annexation, you tweeted am I alone

0:19:540:20:00

and proud, because you had picked up

on some Twitter comment criticising

0:20:000:20:05

the annexation. You said I am alone

and proud in believing it was a

0:20:050:20:10

brilliant political manoeuvre.

Yes,

but I didn't set about myself.

A

0:20:100:20:14

brilliant political manoeuvre.

Yes,

but you are not translating at the

0:20:140:20:18

right way. I was answering someone

about Putin thinking something of

0:20:180:20:23

Crimea, and the idea, I still say

it, that for Putin, in his mind,

0:20:230:20:27

that is a brilliant solution, and he

thinks that this is the best

0:20:270:20:31

historical thing he did for Russia.

And you will see it on the

0:20:310:20:35

elections. It will be the main thing

of his campaign. I made Crimea that

0:20:350:20:38

to Russia. So in his mind, this was

a brilliant thing, not in mine.

So

0:20:380:20:45

when you are saying you are proud to

believe it was a brilliant and

0:20:450:20:49

political manoeuvre, you only

looking at it from his point of

0:20:490:20:52

view.

Of course.

I see. Well,

frankly, you didn't choose to tweak

0:20:520:20:56

your absolute condemnation of the

annexation of Crimea at the time,

0:20:560:21:00

but you have done since. You now say

Crimea is Ukrainian.

I was this in

0:21:000:21:07

the dialogue about Putin, -- putting

myself into the shoes of Putin, who

0:21:070:21:12

would of course be proud of this.

This is his main thing he is proud

0:21:120:21:16

of.

I see, I see.

And this is how we

stand.

We haven't time to go through

0:21:160:21:22

all of your policies, on the

economy, foreign policy, everything

0:21:220:21:25

else.

Let's do it.

Well, we don't

have time, but Russia is in a really

0:21:250:21:31

difficult place economically. There

are still sanctions on the country,

0:21:310:21:34

your growth rate is 1% this year.

You are very vulnerable to shifts in

0:21:340:21:38

commodity prices. Do you believe,

going back to this question of

0:21:380:21:42

experience, that you have the

ability to turn Russia around?

I

0:21:420:21:54

have an ability to create another

system. And the system itself will

0:21:540:21:57

create another economy, a free

economy of trade, a free economy of

0:21:570:22:00

innovations. The things that are

needed is the changing of power, so

0:22:000:22:04

the Parliamentary Republic, very

strong government, instead of very

0:22:040:22:06

strong president. I think the most

important thing for Russia at this

0:22:060:22:09

moment is to change presidential

republic to Parliamentary Republic,

0:22:090:22:13

because this will make those powers

dissolve between different centres

0:22:130:22:21

in the government. This is very

important, and this is what I fight

0:22:210:22:25

for. After this would be done, I

believe strongly that, to build an

0:22:250:22:31

economy based on liberal principles,

based on property, not owned by

0:22:310:22:36

government, but I business and

people who really work on it, will

0:22:360:22:41

be a matter of not really big-time.

If, come March of next year, you are

0:22:410:22:48

the main, quote unquote opposition

candidates, fighting Vladimir

0:22:480:22:54

Putin...

I am not quote unquote, I

am an Opposition Leader.

And what

0:22:540:22:57

happens is this, and it is the most

likely scenario, according to all

0:22:570:23:01

the polls, that Vladimir Putin

scores an overwhelming, huge

0:23:010:23:05

victory, and the Kremlin says, look,

it was entirely legitimate, we had a

0:23:050:23:09

real election, there was a choice.

The choice was Putin against

0:23:090:23:16

Sobchak, and Sobchak one -- Putin

won a very, very big mandate. How

0:23:160:23:21

will you feel about that? Will you

feel like a useful idiot?

It will be

0:23:210:23:28

legitimate, because your Prime

Minister or the President of America

0:23:280:23:33

would be the first ones to call and

legitimated for Mr Putin, by their

0:23:330:23:38

congratulations. Or maybe have some

doubts that your Prime Minister

0:23:380:23:42

won't do it?

So in your own words,

you will be very useful

0:23:420:23:47

legitimating...

It is not because of

me taking part in those elections.

0:23:470:23:50

It is I fight for my people. I want

them to be heard. I want Mr Putin to

0:23:500:23:55

see how many people are against him

in our country, because there are

0:23:550:23:59

many people who are against his

policy.

Senior Sobchak, we have two

0:23:590:24:09

end there, but thank you very much

for being on HARDtalk.

Thank you,

0:24:090:24:13

thank you.

0:24:130:24:15

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS