Ashley Judd - Actor HARDtalk

Now on BBC News it's

time for HARDTalk.

Welcome in too HARDtalk from New

York, with me. The city and Los

Angeles are the twin capitals of

America's giant movie, media and

entertainment is Mr. A business that

has been rocked by allegations of

systemic sexism, misogyny and

abusive behaviour. My guest today is

Ashley Judd, the actor and activist

and one of the first women to go

public with her accusations about

the mega producer Harvey Weinstein.

What began with voices of anger and

pain has become a movement,

demanding radical change. How far

can it go?

Ashley Judd, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you.

In recent weeks and

months something quite extraordinary

has happened. Kickstarted, I

suppose, by the allegations

concerning Harvey Weinstein and what

we see now is the growth of a real

movement of women speaking out. Are

you satisfied that this has come

about or are you deeply frustrated

that it has taken so long for this

to come about, what is your

overriding emotion right now?

Julie.

-- Joy. Unmitigated comic

electrifying accurate three. I am so

happy is here. I have been telling

the story of a long time from the

moment it happened in fact, my

particular moments of harassment

with Harvey Weinstein, I am a teller

to use the words used at the Golden

Globes, I am a taddler. I was

molested when I was 11 years old and

the first thing I did was go to a

grown up and said this happened. As

so many times have been the case, I

was told this is an old man, this is

not what he meant. At a remained

absolute inmate truth in telling

this was what has happened and that

is why am such a crusader for gender

equality and the eradication of

gender and sexual -based violence. I

experienced it as a youth and in

Hollywood and has been the core of

my work 15 years and now that this

movement has collectivised and

catalyse and is here, it is

incredibly gratifying to me.

We

stick with Harvey Weinstein for a

moment, what happened to you with

Harvey happened in 1997 but the

truth in your story in so many

others people stories has only

emerged in the last few months. So

what happened to the telling that

you did at the time?

No one could

hear me. No one could hear me. And I

told the story in great detail to

variety magazine two years to the

month prior to the publication of

the New York Times piece and

everybody knew that I was talking

about Harvey, he was named in the

comments that were posted on

variety's website. Sometimes people

called him by name, sometimes people

used loosely disguised names.

But

you didn't name him in the peace.

Though I didn't, I was talking with

variety in their women in film

issue, powerful women in Hollywood

issue, whatever they call it. The

journalist asked the question if I

had already been harassed. I was

like yes, hell yes. Everyone in the

room was like no. Of course ain't

telling the story, my dad was with

me when it happened I came straight

from the hotel to the lobby and told

my dad immediately what had

happened, including everybody that

night with whom I was dawning on

Kiss the girls, the director, writer

and producer. All of whom over the

years have discussed it in an

ongoing way with me and it is just

that now the world could hear.

The

pattern is clear from so many of the

different stories, he often

operating out of a hotel room, him

summoning a female actor to his room

and appearing in the bath robe and

demanding different tax clearly of a

sexual nature. You fled when that

pretty much happened to you. Were

you then, for a long time,

frightened of Harvey Weinstein?

I

was not frightened of Harvey

Weinstein and I think that is why he

blackballed me. I think that is why

he blacklisted me and unfortunately

did such a successful job sabotaging

my career as he continued to harass

me between 1997 and 1999 and I have

other examples and I haven't torn

into detail because I don't want to

give it oxygen.

You know what I have

to do, I have to say that he

continues to absolutely deny in any

of the cases that have been

discussed in the last few that he

ever acted in a way that was not

consensual when it came to sexual

activity.

Right, he also hasn't

denied that he harassed me and in

fact he has apologise for it. My

particular example he said, a direct

quote, he didn't lay a glove on me.

He didn't because as you noticed I

was able to escape from the room, he

harassed me, abused his power and he

lorded it over me, this imbalance

between us. With vitriol and abuse

of charm for two years and then all

of a sudden... You continue to see

him? I bumped into him at the hotel,

at different events and he was

always like wink wink, I will find a

great part to you. At double

jeopardy in 1999I reached the point

where I could not go further. Arbour

Walters was to my right and I

thought unconsciously having a

powerful woman next to me helped

inflame my own audacious courage

because I started to go at him. I

literally started to go at him and

was getting ready to call him out in

front of whoever happened to hear to

be within the distance, whatever I

am trying to say. He knew it and he

said you know, I'm going to let you

out that little deal we made. Said,

you do that Harvey. You did that. He

never bothered me again but of

course he blacklisted me which Peter

Jackson and Fran Walsh had

confirmed.

He said you and another

actress were difficult were

difficult and you shouldn't be

touched because you were too

demanding and too difficult and

Peter Jackson has since said I to

that information and I wish I

hadn't. Does it leave you feeling

that your career has, in a

substantial way, been ruined? --

ruined by this man?

Not ruined, but

definitely impacted. I deeply

appreciate Peter and Fran's apology

and that they wrote me a very

detailed letter with an absolute

blow by blow Timeline of what

happened and what was said and how

it was confusing for them because

this notion that I was difficult to

match their experience of me

personally. It really, it is in a

way it a relief because it explains

what previously had been

inexplicable, why I was always, at

the time I was was the highest paid

e-mail actor in Hollywood -- female

actor. Then when I was on that

shortlist, Julia Roberts, Sandro

Bullock and me and a couple of other

people. Without explanation it will

come down to it that I wouldn't get

the offer and I didn't know why.

Miramax have denied that they put

out a bike with or blackballed

individuals including yourself.

There are a lot of contradictions in

there and other people have since

come forward and said yes, that is

what we heard, we had a feeling it

wasn't true. The good news is I have

such a robust life and I have a

great curiosity about the world and

in a way that led me to the

humanitarian work that I have been

doing so passionately for all of

these years since. I have been to 18

countries around the world, in

particular I visited Congo and

Rwanda many times and I visited

India, the wars and in Ukraine and

Jordan recently and on my way to

Bangladesh and shrunk, to use an

expression used in Texas, I have

made a hand. A good handful myself.

In a sense you are saying it

certainly modified the trajectory of

your life.

It did, yes.

It did.

Let's talk about the somewhat bigger

picture because this is part of

something much bigger. In a

fascinating head talk that you

delivered last year, you talked of

sexism, misogyny, of viable, violent

abuse that you had been getting

online. -- macro true. -- Capri.

This is nothing to do with the

specifics of the Harvey Weinstein

cake, this is about some Twitter

comments you had put up at a

basketball game.

Yes, that was an

ovarian moment, where I thought I

had to up my game. I was at a

Kentucky basketball game, that is my

team, Celtic is my team. I didn't

like a piece of refereeing at and I

said something about it in my tweet

and all of a sudden it went viral

and it was caught a cyber mob and

suddenly it was rape threats and

decapitation threats and just all

kinds of extraordinarily

misogynistic, it was hate speech. It

was hate speech and I decided to

write about it.

What about your

attitudes to date about men. --

today. Rate as a girl, suffered at

the hands of people like Harvey

Weinstein. What is your feelings

today of our relations between men

and women are. -- at three.

I could

have cut you off at the beginning

and said I love men. I love men. I

love noise and men. The problem is

toxic masculinity and the patriarchy

of the system that we live in,

including me. I think that the

patriarchy is as constraining and

limiting to boys and men as it is to

girls and women are. You all might

not see it that way because when one

is entitled and has privilege and

seems to have a status that affords

different kinds of power and

licences, that that actually is as

limiting and unfulfilling to boys

and men as it is to girls and women

are.

The MeToo campaign that has

arisen this focus on Hollywood and

misogyny and sexism began, the MeToo

campaign according to some women has

gone too far. If I quote you one

American writer and journalist, she

says that mass stereo has set in and

become a classic moral parrot down

like -- neck, which can be as

damaging to women as tremendous of

the Kingussie where she is coming

from?

I think there is always room

for critique and that we can be

spacious enough in our perspective

to hold paradox and dissent. There

may be summoned to learn from that

and she maybe also, in my opinion,

simply have missed the point.

And...

One of the points is about the

inflation about different kinds of

behaviours of. This alleged banality

of Harvey Weinstein and then there

is what other women writers have

called the presumptuous nurse and

boorishness that women have seen in

men and dealt with men for time

immemorial. Is there a danger of

completing different behaviours and

criminalising some behaviours which,

while many regard them as

unacceptable, are not criminal?

Think it is fantastic to have the

conversation and starting to

articulate and identify and really,

have a gradient of behaviours and

understand that there is a spectrum

of de Gea. That is so important.

Unless we talk about this and he's

each part of it out we can't

understand what is unacceptable and

what is and we also need the lexicon

for describing the behaviour.

Yesterday I switched my TV on and

there was use of another act, James

Franco, who has been the subject of

a number of different accusations

from women, mostly online. James

Franco's response is look, Hague, I

didn't do the things that I am

accused of if I did in the past

behaved badly then I am going to

work my very hardest to put things

right. -- hey. I wonder now about

the atmosphere that you see in your

industry and in entertainment and

other industries too where, it seems

that some men feel that they are, in

a sense, being presumed guilty.

Without due process.

I think that what James said is

terrific, and I think that we have

all behaved at a certain level

unconsciously, and done things that

were insensitive, inappropriate,

without necessarily understanding

that they were. I mean, we've all

are paraded with a certain amount of

tone deafness, and I like the

culpability, and we have to have

restorative justice. This is about

men and women being altogether, and

having a more equitable and just

workplace, home life, social spaces.

I mean, we know that when women are

empowered in the work place, and are

in decision-making positions, that

workplaces have better financial

outcomes. And there is less

harassment when there is more

diversity. And it takes that kind of

individual accountability to

collectively make a change, on a

large scale.

This is political,

though, isn't it, for you?

Absolutely.

You have become legal in

that you are a goodwill ambassador

for the population fund at United

Nations. You travel the world, as

you said, often addressing women's

groups and talking to women and

girls about the need for them to be

part of a campaign to deliver better

lives across the world for females.

Look at the United States. How much

work does there need to be in the

United States on these issues?

A

ton, a ton. Our teen pregnancy is

skyrocketing. We have some of the

highest teen pregnancy in the

developed world. You know, we don't

have paid family leave, except that

individual companies who have had

the courage to lead internally. And

I am very aware that we have great

strides to be made here. I mean,

there are 49 countries in the world

that don't have laws prohibiting

intimate partner and domestic

violence, and while we do have laws

against it, they too need to be more

evenly enforced. And are restraining

orders are in some instances quite

ineffective, and grant the abuser

all kinds of freedom of movement

that constrain the victim to certain

hours and safe zones.

Well, it was

very striking at the Golden Globes

the other day, you and many other

leading actors were dressed in

black, and many of you invited as

your guest activists from different

spheres across the United States,

representing all sorts of different

ethnic and working groups of women.

And I know that the #MeToo campaign

said that one of its absolute

driving forces was the

correspondence it had had with

700,000 female farmworkers whom it

was determined to draw into this

campaign for equality, equal pay,

women's rights. Do you think, in all

honesty, that you and other movie

stars, and very famous women, are

best placed to be relatable, and to

deliver real change, for people like

the female farmworkers of America?

I

believe we are best placed to clean

up our own industry, and we are

doing that. You know, we are writing

codes of conduct across unions and

our business so that, for example,

business meetings can no longer take

place in hotel rooms. And we are

working for equal representation

both behind the camera and in front

of the camera. We are working

towards equal pay.

You have miles to

go on all of that.

We have miles to

go, and I am so glad that the story

about the disparity in pay between

the great Michelle Williams who has

been nominated for two Oscars and

Mark Warburg has come out. Because I

knew those facts myself, and it

wasn't my story to tell. And it is

so egregious, I am grateful it has

become public. Are we the most

reliable, are we the most

well-placed? I don't know. They

reached out to us and our collective

and individual empathy and

understanding is absolutely with

them. You know, we responded to

their identification with us,

because, you know, it doesn't...

Whether it is the server who gets

her bum pinched or the factory

worker who is harassed by the line

boss, or the female janitor who is

trapped in a building after hours

with men who threaten her, we

experience it in the brain stem the

same way. Any kind of threat is a

physiological experience, and it

doesn't matter what the pay is or

what the setting is. Men and women

experience it the same, and that's

really what we are addressing.

Trump

and his supporters do tend to

portray people in your business as

out of touch elites, Liberals who

know nothing, frankly, of the lives

of white, working class Americans in

middle America. Do you think that

fault line could be dangerous, if it

develops further?

I am from eastern

Kentucky. And my people have been

there for ten generations, and I

grew up around the coal mines. I

live in rural middle Tennessee,

surrounded by folks who voted for

our current president. I think that

I am uniquely positioned as an

American to understand all kinds of

people from all backgrounds and all

classes, and all levels of

achievement.

Well, let's just

continue the politics conversation a

little further. You... It is

reported, seriously considered

running for the Senate and I think

2013, 20 12- 2013. Do you still feel

they might be a political career for

you?

I want to be useful. You know,

I want to be useful to my fellows,

and to the God of my understanding,

and I like to think I am willing to

do whatever it takes to be useful.

It seems right now I am in the right

space, and I wouldn't rule it out,

and it is not a Cory answer. I just

don't know. I was very serious at

the time, and then a young person

with a -- and my family came to live

with me -- coy. I was given an

opportunity to help finish raising a

16-year-old child, and that is why I

chose not to run, and I am very

content with that decision. I think

Mitch McConnell needs to be

unseated, I am really hoping a

Democrat can win the seat that has

been vacated by Bob Corker. I am

supporting a candidate in Marcia's

seat, as he has been held hostage

for so many years. But right now I

am not a candidate.

And would you

back Oprah Winfrey, for example?

Much talk post Golden Globes of her

being possible presidential material

if she wanted, if she has ambition?

If she... You know, she is clearly a

genuinely exceptional human being,

and she has a capacity to bring

people together which is maybe the

single greatest balm and healing

glue that our nation is right now.

What I really heard, and what she

said the other night, and I was mere

feet away from her, was one person

can spark change that then inflames

a second person, who may go on to do

something that changes the whole

world.

Lets them by returning to

your own industry, and your future

in it. -- let's end. Having

experienced what you experienced, do

you want a future in a?

I do, I love

acting and I love being creative.

And it has given the opportunities

to work with the UNFPA, and working

with organisations around the world

that help ring reproductive health

and access to millions of women who

don't have it, and of course that is

the key to eradicating poverty. And

I love being creative.

Yes, but you

have said it yourself. You work in

an industry where I think of the top

100 grossing movies of 2016, only 6%

were made by women. Women are still,

compared to men, underpaid in all

the different aspects of your

industry.

And of those 6%, only four

were women of colour. But some are

Hayek and I have enjoyed a precious

friendship or 20 something years. I

now have that kind of French ship

with women I have admired on the

screen for years. The way we have

come together is something

terrifying to the industry.

For now

on -- from now on, will you only

take jobs where you know you are

paid equally with the male lead,

whether it be in a movie, whether it

be the theatre production? Are you

going to be different in way that

you handle your career in future?

It

is a great question, and the answer

is yes. In addition to asking for

50% male female participation below

the line, which means all the crew

members, including equal

representation of men and women as

department heads. Because it is

behind the camera where we start

telling the story that the story

emerges on film.

So this is a

movement which can change your

business, and maybe change America.

I am an optimist. I believe that we

are at... You know, it is a great

time to be alive, and it is a great

time to be a woman. And revolutions

are messy, and they are not linear.

And we don't have the playbook for

this, and that's all right. What

matters is that we keep our nose to

the grindstone, and we do it. We

have a singleness of purpose, worse

than men, girls and women, are

equally valuable. And all of our

spaces need to reflect that.

We have

to end there. At Ashley Judd, thank

you so much for being on HARDtalk.

Thank you very much, I really

appreciate it.