Cumbria's Nuclear Future: An Inside Out Special Inside Out North East and Cumbria

Tonight, the most far-reaching decision in Cumbria's history. Is

this the right place to build Britain's first underground nuclear

waste store? And could the billion pound development secure the

county's economic future? Let's get it dug - jobs for my grandkids.

Let's get employment back in our area, not down south. Or is this

the plan that could blight one of Britain's most picturesque

counties? It is so unfair to dump it in such beautiful surroundings.

I don't want it for him, the next generation, it's so unfair. Which

way will the county jump? Do you know what's at stake? At the end of

the day, this is the biggest decision Cumbria will ever make.

Tonight on Inside Out, we ask, just This is one of the most heavily

guarded industrial sites in Britain. Very few people are allowed in.

It's policed round the clock by dedicated armed officers. It's

protected by an air exclusion zone. Why? Because Sellafield is home to

most of Britain's high-level nuclear waste. Some of the spent

fuel here will remain dangerous to mankind for up to 100,000 years.

Today, this is how we deal with the waste. Initially it's put into deep

water ponds. Only later is it cool enough for the next stage of

disposal. After it has cooled, high-level waste is sealed in

cylinders, brought here to be lowered into a storage slot. Yellow

seals mean the slot is filled - black, it's empty. It's being held

here, above ground. But this can't go on indefinitely. The store is

filling up. And the clock is In 2004, this method of disposal

alarmed one government adviser when he toured the plant with a

committee of nuclear experts. saw how the waste was being stored

and frankly I was appalled. There were huge risks involved in keeping

this material just under water, If that cooling had been

interrupted, the water would have boiled away and the fuel rods would

have caught fire, exactly what has happened in Fukushima. It's a

sitting time bomb. The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority says

significant extra resources have been invested to ensure the

continued safe and secure storage of nuclear materials at Sellafield.

But it, too, wants a long-term There is a crisis looming - with

the possibility of more nuclear power stations, Britain needs a

much bigger waste store. That is a massive undertaking. But where

should we put it? That is a question that has fuelled national

arguments for decades. In the next few months, Cumbria has a chance to

rule itself in or out of those Egremont in West Cumbria. Nearly

half the players here work in the nuclear sector. It's West Cumbria's

biggest employer, ploughing �295 million a year into the local

economy. So around here, securing the nuclear waste store would be a

real result. How soon are they going to start digging? Let's get

it dug. At the end of the day, we've lived with it here for the

whole time anyway, so my sentiment is it may as well be here, and we

have the benefits. Let's get it dug, let's get employment back in our

area, not down south. I don't know what all the fuss is about, what

people are whingeing about. Basically it's not going to affect

many people, apart from in a good way. They don't get it at all. They

think radiation and everything - everything is controlled.

Everything is controlled and it isn't as dangerous as it was years

ago. Jobs for my grand kids, employment for people now. What

more do you want? They've got to do something with all the stuff they

produce. It's got to go somewhere. They have been looking at this

issue for at least the last 30 years, that actually spans five

different prime ministers. Basically, we're no further forward

than we were from day one. It's just not right for the Sellafield

workforce to have to repackage this waste indefinitely without at least

looking for a permanent solution. The clock continues to tick as we

struggle to make a final decision. The waste is building up. With our

current nuclear programme it is estimated we will have enough waste

to fill the Albert Hall five times over. The agreed solution is to

bury it. And this is what that involves. What you see on the

surface is no real indication of the scale of the operation. It's a

bigger challenge than the Channel Tunnel. When they reach a depth of

between 200 and 1,000 metres, they will build an underground city. It

will have a larger footprint than Carlisle or London's Olympic Park.

The store is a network of tunnels. It'll take 1000 construction

workers 15 years to complete at a cost of between 12 and �20 billion.

So is this the most exciting project in Cumbria's history? Or is

the promise of jobs just a bribe to turn the county into Britain's

nuclear dumping ground? And what about safety? Real questions. So

Finland is a relative newcomer to nuclear power. But when it comes to

dealing with the waste, it's much So where we're entering now is

where Finland hopes to put all of its nuclear waste. We're going down

into a very long spiral tunnel, we're going to be so far deep down,

it'll be the equivalent of the Empire State Building in New York.

As that is high, this is how low we are about to go. When it's finished,

the road down will lead to a complex of hundreds of tunnels

where the waste will be stored. It gets a little bit disorientating

for a first-time visitor because the tunnel seems to be endless.

We're going down at a gradient of about one in 10, so it is quite

steep, but it's going to take us something like 50 minutes to get

So for those who don't understand the concept of where we are,

explain where we are. We are now in the demonstration level, and this

is 420 metres down from the surface. This will be the level where we do

our disposal tunnels also. This is now the size of the disposal tunnel.

So all the eight years of work has all been about finding a hole like

this? Yeah. Earlier this year, we had 1.8 diameter and 8 metre deep

hole. And the canister would go straight, snug into this? Yeah,

they are a bit smaller than the hole because they need to fit there.

There are three barriers involved. So you will in effect slip it in

with the clay around it and the rock, all three together, that

should mean it's safe for 100,000 years? Yeah. It would be better

than six metres of water. Which is where it is at the minute. It would

be safe in those conditions. This is just one hole. How many are you

going to need? There will be several 1000 similar holes and

several hundreds of tunnels. It's difficult for people to understand

just how big this is going to be. But also the project will last 120

years. So there will be lots going on. So several generations will be

The Finns have a clear plan. First, carry out a geological survey of as

much of the country as you can, and once you have identified suitable

sites, ask those local committees if they would agree to waste stores

being built in their areas. And it worked. On the basis of this

overall screening, there were 100 sites picked that turned out to be

suitable for final disposal in terms of geology. We got favourable

answers from five municipalities, and that was a starting point for

drilling. The Finnish way of doing things means they are leading the

world in building an underground nuclear waste store. We never set

the goal to be the first. We just found ourselves to be the

forerunners, because in other countries, these programmes have

stopped, there has been political objection, there has been local

resistance, but coming to the new millennium, we find ourselves quite

alone. There is only Sweden and But even with his head start, the

Finns think they've been cutting it This whole project was really begun

29 years ago when the Finnish government gave it approval. But

they have only got as far as building test tunnels. So in

British terms, we are still stuck in 1983. Not only that, we're doing

it all the other way round. Find a community that is willing to

volunteer and then worry about the geology. This process of

volunteerism, it seems to me to be ludicrous. Because you need to know

when you ask people whether you can bury your radioactive waste in

their back gardens, you want to know whether it's actually feasible

to do it. We're doing it the wrong way round? Yes. Frustrated by the

way the government in Britain was looking for waste solutions, Dr

Baverstock spoke out. He was fired from the panel of advisers in 2005.

We do know a little about West Cumbria's geology because of the

results of test drillings carried out in the 1990s. Back then,

Britain was looking to build an underground research literature, a

first step towards developing a nuclear waste store. -- underground

research laboratory. But the Nirex plan, as it was known, never got

off the drawing board. Nirex adopted a small part of west

Cumbria, a site at Sellafield, and the inspector said he concluded

that wasn't a suitable site. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't be

able to, if everything goes well with the planning process, be able

to find a suitable site in Cumbria. That optimism isn't shared by the

original planning inspector, who threw out the Nirex proposals. I've

tracked him down. He has never spoken publicly before and finds it

hard to believe Cumbria will be the answer to our nuclear waste problem.

I was very surprised to find that West Cumbria was being floated once

more as a potential site, yes. based on your knowledge, what do

you think the chances are of West Cumbria being suitable again?

think the probability of their finding a suitable site is low.

at the end of inquiry, did you suggest where else they might look?

What we found was that you could not understand the rock that Nirex

had chosen to investigate. You need to be able to fully understand the

rock to be sure about the solidity and the stability and the

permeability. My expert adviser did say in our reports that he felt the

search should move to another part of the country, and that's

basically a part where there are remnants of the old continental

crust, where it's very stable rock, and roughly speaking, that's a

triangle that cuts across the South Midlands of England and goes on

It's Cumbria's unique geology that has created picture perfect

landscapes and tranquil lakes. Some of the reasons why 14 million

people visit the county each year. More than 30,000 people are

employed in the tourist industry, and it rakes in more than �2

billion. Ask any visitor what Cumbria means to them and it's

clear. Beautiful. Peaceful. Good walking. Mountains and lakes.

Cumbria, Lake District, love it. Well, they're thinking of putting

all of Britain's nuclear waste there. Right, perhaps not a place

to visit in the future! I think if it's safe, it's got to go somewhere.

I wouldn't be happy about it, I live in Morpeth, I would feel it is

far too close. So for me that would be a threat. I think there's

For people who make a living from Cumbria's many tourists, anything

that unsettles visitors is a worry. There's lots of ways of abseiling.

Angel's wings works quite well. As long as it's not too steep. We want

you to experiment with all the different types. People come here

for a positive experience, beautiful scenery and to do

exciting things. They want to have a nice time and have good vibes. So,

it's just across from where we are now with all this beautiful scenery,

is this the right place to be thinking about it? It seems a bit

unfair that the Lake District is going to have to have it, if

someone has to have it. I'm sure the Scottish government wouldn't

want it under the highest mountain in Scotland, Ben Nevis. I am sure

the Welsh government wouldn't want it under the highest Welsh mountain

which is Snowdon, it affects tourism in their areas. You think

this is the wrong place? I think it is the wrong place. It could go in

lots of other places in the country. We're being taken as an easy option.

The interest is here and the skills and expertise is here but perhaps

this isn't the right place. Are you worried that having a nuclear waste

store here would affect tourism? I am worried and people are worried

and tourists are worried. We run businesses based on tourism.

Thousands of employees at Sellafield but there are thousands

of employees who live through the tourist industry in Cumbria.

That's good, you're looking like a good abseiler now. You could do

with a decent pair of boots. Although nowhere has been ruled out,

one geologist has already identified two highly sensitive

areas as the places most likely to offer the best rock formation for

the store. Eskdale, where Andy works, and Silloth in the north

where alarm bells started to ring. Are you local? So you know about

it? It's all about greed. It will destroy everything eventually. I

don't want it for him, the next generation. It is so unfair, it is

so unfair. To dump it in such a beautiful place. I've been coming

here for 11 years now and I absolutely love it. We have a

caravan over on Hilton Park and I love the scenery up here, it is

properly peaceful. We don't want a nuclear waste station here. It's an

area of outstanding natural beauty here and things like this would

probably have a big effect on the local ecology and the wildlife and

the beauty of the place. I head some birds so they're obviously

around? There are a number at this time of year. They're coming down

with their family. For 17 years, Brian has dedicated his working

life to preserving this area for future generations. When they first

mooted a nuclear repository for this part of Cumbria, what was your

reaction? Shock. You hear about this kind of stuff going on in West

Cumbria, around where the old nuclear plant is and where the

Magnox site is as well and you think, for nuclear, this is not the

place. You're saying they should not even be looking here? Yes,

absolutely. When they make a big hole in the ground, there will be a

lot of material coming out. What that means is it will have to be

stored on site in massive buns and we have a flat landscape. What

about tourism? It is a nice part of the world here, are you worried?

don't want to be labelled as the nuclear repository site. It is an

area of outstanding natural beauty here. This is the biggest possible

adverse affect that has ever been bestowed upon us. For me, it's all

about legacy. We are talking about thousands and thousands of years.

This is the biggest decision Cumbria will ever make. The big

thing for me is that there hasn't been a vote of confidence in this

from the local community. That came from west Cumbria, it didn't come

from North Cumbria. So maybe there's a split in the county and

actually only those closest to the existing nuclear power station can

already see the advantages. Like this company. One of the many that

supply equipment to Sellafield and are hoping to seal more deals. I

can vouch for the seals on there. bit hot in there? How many of these

might you supply to the nuclear industry? These are products that

are factored in, we do all the suits and tents like the one you

have just been in. For you, the survival of the nuclear industry is

important, that is your business? It is important for us. A healthy

nuclear industry is a healthy business for us. So would it create

jobs for you? It is hard to say right now until we see the final

spec but obviously they are going to need similar types of bags, buns,

tents. This could be a valuable asset to you, to have this in

Cumbria? It could definitely be good news, yes. The other big

industry in Cumbria is tourism and would being known as the nuclear

waste dump for Britain put the tourists of? The nuclear industry

has worked alongside tourism for as long as I can remember. I don't see

why any reason in the future... We have had waste stores before and it

hasn't affected the industry. might not be visible but what about

the reputation, to be known as the dump for the country's waste?

all in the name. We have 15 years to package it up into something

more sexy. This is something that Cumbria can be proud of having?

have been to the one in Finland and the Finns are proud of theirs, is

There are lots of interesting parallels between West Cumbria and

western Finland. We have Sellafield and the nearby Lake District. Here,

they have the nuclear industry and this, a world heritage site. The

third oldest town in Finland, founded in 1442. I have lived here

for 30 years or more. I have never seen any problem in it. It doesn't

pollute too much as we live now but in the future, it might do so. So

we have to think about that but maybe we are not bright enough to

do so. It might be a dirty question but what's in it for the people,

taking on the country's nuclear waste? Here, the locals are getting

7 million for local improvements, including this lavish social centre.

There is a restaurant and meeting premises where weddings are held

and so on, so it is a cultural monument for the municipality where

people go and it is a local pride. Should a community expect a deal?

Of course you are expecting some kind of a compensation, if you are

accepting any waste. So, what might the benefits be in somewhere like

Cumbria? With few other areas in Britain wanting to come forward,

surely the county is in the best possible position to name its price.

Of course Cumbria would expect to gain some benefit from carrying out

this service of national importance. No question about that. This is a

huge project and some people have likened it to the Channel Tunnel in

terms of scale so by definition, there would be significant

infrastructure improvements. We can probably think of things like

health and education benefits. Inducement or a bribe? I don't

think it's a bribe at all and it is not even an inducement, it is just

part of the process that has been recognised internationally that for

this type of project, it's important for the community to

benefit but is seen and is feeling to be benefiting and additional

benefits on top of the direct jobs are a good way of doing that.

what is on offer? Schools, hospitals, roads, no one seems

certain. Allerdale and the county council have written to the

Government asking for some urgent answers. They set out their demands,

they wanted clarification on just what the community benefits to

Cumbria might be. Guarantees of money to promote Cumbria and

protect its image and crucially, a legally binding agreement so that

they would be able to halt the process at any time before the

diggers move in. After years of debating, the councils were due to

reach a decision on pulling out or pressing on later this week.

Instead, the vital meetings will now not take place until early next

year. Why the need then for this sudden delay because we had a

timetable and suddenly it has been thrown into disarray? It is a major

decision for local authorities to take. It would be a facility that

would be here for thousands of years so if the local authorities

need another three months to seek further clarification, that is what

we should do. The overground high- level waste store continues to fill

and with no plan B on the table, is the pressure to say yes

overwhelming? Isn't it a foregone conclusion, because you're pretty

much the only county interested in it and the government needs you to

say yes? The government probably do need us to say yes but that doesn't

mean we are going to. So last minute meetings, delays - no arm

twisting going on? No, it is far too important to be accused of

something like that. We are on the same page, this is not government

trying to impose some go on us. It is something we are working on

together and they will work at the speed we want to work at. We wanted

to talk to someone from the government on such a vital national

and local issue. I asked to speak with the secretary of state. He

declined so I then asked to speak to his junior minister Baroness

Verma who visited Cumbria last week. She couldn't find time to visit us

either but she did send me a statement. How much money it might

Cumbria get? Why no geological survey of the country before asking

for volunteers? With no other takers, could Cumbria be forced

into saying yes? In January, will we be any clearer about Cumbria's

nuclear future? The consequences for the county - economic,

environmental, emotional, are profound. The only real certainty