04/02/2013 Inside Out North East and Cumbria

$:/STARTFEED. Tonight, one of the nation's favourite retailers fined

for taking unacceptable risks with asbestos. Staff and contractors

should definitely, and members of the public, should definitely be

concerned about their health if they shopped in that store. We'll

ask, should Marks & Spencers learned lessons froms a bes tonne

in its flagship store more than a decade ago? -- asbestos. They

cannot guarantee the safety of anyone, the customers staff or

anyone. Even one person is too many. I

don't want anyone else to go through that.

And we ask Marks & Spencers, is this how a responsible and ethical

retailer should behave? This is regreatable. I've said, the

implementation of the policy was not good. We are very sorry about

that and have taken steps to make sure it never happens again.

Chris Jackson and this is Inside Traditionally cured salmon with

creamy mustard and dill sauce. Marks & Spencers has long been one

of our favourite retailers. It has an impeccable image.

We expect to feel safe in its stores. That's why the evidence

we've uncovered about how it's handled asbestos is worried. This

is not just food. This is M&S food. My dad was a Marks & Spencers man.

He was very kind, very generous, very thoughtful. Peter Jackson

worked as a warehouseman in Ashton- Under-Lyne in Greater Manchester

for almost three decades. Seven years ago, he developed chest pains,

lacked energy and lost weight. After tests, he was diagnosed with

mesothelioma, caused by breathing asbestos fibres, taking an average

of 40 years to develop. The doctors kept saying he must have worked

with asbestos and he said, I haven't. He was thinking and

thinking and thinking. Then it clicked with him. Peter recalled a

time in 1977 when the Ashton store was being refurbished. He was

working nights. Whenever the store was closed, the employees, the

warehousemen had come in to oversee general security, they called it.

But while he was working, Peter said he was breathing asbestos

fibres which were in the ceilings. He described the conditions in a

statement. I could see the dust in the air. Men doing the work wore

white boiler suits and masks. I wore my ordinary clothes. I didn't

have any protection. Working over the top of him. The dust was

falling straight on top of him really. He'd have to clean it up

because the store was still open for trading in the mornings.

almost 30 years, the asbestos fibres remained in his lungs.

said he had pains in his back. He went to the hospital and just got

told, this is mesothelioma and there is no cure. Once diagnosed,

it can kill swiftly. Eventually, Peter was paid compensation by M&S.

He died in 2008. He was so brave about it. They

should be held accountable for their actions because one person is

too many. Western person's too many -- one person's too many. I don't

want anyone to go through that. Freda worked in mark sten in Kent.

An area next to the canteen and stock rooms was refurbished. The

building contained asbestos. She said the staff weren't warned or

given protection. The work evidently went on for so long that

some of the workers who were working on this project married

some of the emand Cesc staff. 2007, Freda was asked whether she'd

come into contact with asbestos. She developed mesothelioma. She was

unaware how she contracted this disease. It was only because she

met the local chemist and hairdresser who said in the local

newspaper this store had asbestos in the store and she hadn't been

exposed to it anywhere else. was paid compensation. She died

from mesothelioma in 2011. It's possible that staff were exposed to

asbestos in the 120s -- stores. It's clear that the store doesn't

understand the risks that we do today. It's tragic that staff and

colleagues were suffering in this way. We paid compensation swi

absolutely right. I'm clear that our policies have become industry-

leading. My dad was totally dedicated to me

and my sister and my mum. Peter was a warehouse manager at M&S from the

1960s to the 1990s. He had rheumatoid arthritis. In 2010, he

began feeling breathless. He was also diagnosed with asbestos

related diffuse plural thickening. Every time he was hospitalised,

they said, have you worked with asbestos and we were always

surprised. Eventually, Peter thought he may have been exposed to

asbestos at five M&S stores. described people working, smashing

down ceilings, taking cladding off walls and columns and all of that,

as he described to me, was made of asbestos. They'd have a dust sheet

up between the shop floor that was still open and the warehouse or the

bits that they were developing at the time.

Peter died from a heart attack in May last year before he could

pursue his claim for compensation. He was so out of breath, he

couldn't walk from the sofa to the kitchen table. That's a horrible

thing to watch. It was so sad. M&S says it was not responsible in any

way for Peter's asbestos exposure. It seems unbelievable that someone

doing their job in a M&S could have died from exposure to asbestos. Is

it a one in a million event or much more common? It's long been known

that many major retailers have stores that contain asbestos.

That's because they were built before 2000, before asbestos was

banned as a construction material. The list of stores fined or

criticised for breaching asbestos regulations is shocking. House of

Fraser was fined in 1997 by Birmingham magistrates. Blacks in

London for an incident in 2005. Co- op Manchester 2007. Top Shop

Liverpool, 2008. John Lewis Edinburgh also 2008.

Left undisturbed, asbestos is relatively safe. But once broken,

it releases fibres which can cause cancer and lung problems if they're

inhaled. It needs careful handling, but

there's a particular issue with asbestos work in shops.

There are serious commercial pressures. People want to keep the

store open. If they close it, they lose customers long-term. So it can

affect any retailer with asbestos on its premises. And many have

fallen foul of the law as a result. But evidence we have at how M&S and

some of its contractors have handled asbestos in some stores is

worrying. It suggests that the risks to customers, staff and

contractors may not have been fully acknowledged.

Richard was a joiner and shop fitter. In the 1960s, his employer

had contracts with M&S stores in the north including Middlesbrough,

Newcastle and Carlisle. Tches the main client they had. When he

worked on the stores, he regularly came into contact with s of fit

boards which would be in the process of being cut into shape to

be fitted in behind wall spaces -- soffit. Richard describes the

conditions in a statement. The dust would be falling on my face. It got

everywhere. Up my nose and on my overalls and skin. I was not

provided with any mask. Richard was also exposed to asbestos in his

employers' workshops and on a handful of small jobs. Four years

after being diagnosed and more than 40 years after his first exposure

to asbestos, Richard died of mesothelioma in 2010.

His former employer paid over �200,000 in compensation. James

worked as a contractor in M&S stores in the north-west in the

1960s and early 70s. Ceilings were made of asbestos tiles. I came home

once and my mother-in-law thought I looked very ill, she said I looked

ashen and it was the asbestos all over my face. It was just

everywhere. You couldn't escape it. James says ventilation passed

through ceilings across raw asbestos tiles and into the store.

The place was just full of asbestos dust, full of asbestos dust and I

always thought when you stick the fans on, where's it going to go?

Blows on to the sales floor. James has plural plaques. Sufferers have

scarring of the lungs which indicate exposure to asbestos.

Although James and Richard worked mostly in M&S stores for many years,

the company says there were a number of places where they could

have been exposed to the lethal dust.

I think in both cases of the contractors, it's tragic that

anyone has developed asbestos- related illnesses. Those

contractors settled claims, not with us, but with the Government

and also with the employees and therefore I think it's not right

for me to say that that was based on Marks & Spencers. They worked

for long times in the building industry and many builders in the

60s, 70s and 80s, were exposed to asbestos. More than 4,000 people

die from mesothelioma and asbestos- related cancers each year.

Mesothelioma can result from low levels of exposure. The presumption

is there's no safe limit. Basically, we keep exposure as low as we can.

75% of M&S stores contain asbestos. Like most retailers, it's had a

practice of keeping open during refurbishments. Closed stores don't

make a profit. That means stringent precautions must be taken if

asbestos is present. It's argued that the risks of

asbestos exposure weren't known for most of the 20th century. In fact,

by the 60s, before most of our case studies were exposed, the risks

were spelt out. It was held at the Appeal Court

that there would be more general knowledge. M&S has long emphasised

how responsible it is as an employer and retailer. For us, it's

about doing the right thing, building in a sustainable way.

launched plan A, a scheme to become environmentally friendly,

tradethically and help us all lead healthier lives. We'll make sure we

make our next store even more eco- friendly. In the 80s, it set out

the rules for dealing with asbestos in its green guide, a book the

company says has been regularly updated. What we believe was right

then we now know not to be true. We have changed guide lines in line

with that. Safety measures were put in place, but how effective were

they? 1997, M&S chairman Sir Richard Greenbury presents an award

to Peter Jackson from the Ashton- Under-Lyne store who died from

mesothelioma within ten years. That same year, 1998, Sir Richard is

told of contamination at M&S, Marble Arch.

A health and safety offer for contractors refurbishing Marble

Arch sounds the alarm. He's horrified by what he sees. They

were asbestos mine fields for want of a better expression. You could

not guarantee the safety of anyone, the workers, staff, kust ders. You

could never have guaranteed 100% that the people were safe --

customers. He says no action was taken, so he begins gathering

evidence, copying pages from the handovers or logs left by the day

and night shifts or the construction manager.

This report from April 1998 says the day shift has done it again -

cladding has been stripped with a sledgehammer. Asbestos is

everywhere. It's the third occasion in a week where they've had to

clear up after a dangerous occurrence. Somebody has to control

the day shift if they don't want the store closed and the HSE

crawling all over you. There wass a very, very strong risk

that the asbestos was seeping back into the store. Horrendous. Very

high level exposure, extremely high level of risk to the workers, very

high level of contamination of the whole store if it wasn't sealed.

According to the handovers, it gets much worse. In May, there's broken

asbestos everywhere. One contractor says he should legally report this.

He put his neck on the line every time he persuades people to play

this down. Closures and media attention could

easily happen if one of these incidents is raised by the wrong

people. He could save their bacon so many

times. All those things owing to the level of contamination of the

store, the shop, the staff and any products. You are potentially

getting asbestos out of the contractors' environment into the

general public environment. Therefore, you are putting a loot

of people at risk. These are not isolated incidents. Here, a sealed

asbestos area appears to have been ripped open and the quarantine

broken. In June, one contractor warns there's "The strong

possibility asbestos could have spread into the store during

trading". Horrendous. Shocking. Scandalous. I

recommended that it be handed over to the licensed asbestos removal.

What happened? It didn't happen but that would have protected the

workers because -- workers and the staff and customers. William

messages M&S managers, he says he gets no reply so he writes to the

Chairman and Chief Executive, Sir Richard Greenbury. His letter warns

"Serious breaches have resulted in contamination of many people" his

attempts to raise the issue have been ignored. I left him in no

doubt that he should be taking some form of action and go into the

paper work which would let him now in no uncertain terms that there

was a deep rooted problem within the organisation. Within days,

William is at his London Hotel meeting senior managers who he says

have been previously unavailable. explained in as much detail as

possible and showed them some documents. A fol owup letter says

Marks & Spencers is taking what he says seriously and the appropriate

action has already been taken. Further investigations are under

way and M&S wishes to discuss the detailed report being prepared.

had done what I could do. We asked M&S what action had been taken over

William's evidence? On the face of the allegations, they sound

worrying, but the team at the time, 15 years ago, thoroughly

investigated them, three months afterwards again and again I've

spoken to the individuals who can find to place whatsoever to say

that any member of staff or public were put at risk. There's

absolutely no case to be found that there was any danger at all, any

negligence at all that reflected the staff and customers. Even

though he said there was asbestos everywhere to be seen in one case?

We understand and investigations believe there was no asbestos

everywhere. We invited Mr Wallace in, his claims were disgusting. --

discussed. He went away we think happy. He was invited to take his

claims to the Health and Safety Executive. He didn't. There was we

assumed there was no risk to staff and customers. They say Mr Wallace

was mistaken about which materials may have contained asbestos. In

2006, Mr Wallace begins working as a safety manager for a contractor

of M&S Reading and is horrified again by what he sees. There was

very little control of various contractors who had been asked to

work on or within the ceiling rooves. I did find other reports of

incidents that had occurred. It was very frightening. Scary really.

Following a tip-off, the Health and Safety Executive swoops on the

Reading store. Marks & Spencers and two contractors are prosecuted.

Among the witnesses in 2011, this building worker. He fears being

blacklisted by the industry so we've disguised his identity. They

wills the court about a shop worker stacking sandwich packs -- -- tells

us about a shop worker stacking sandwich packs.

This photograph shows an electrician doing work in the

ceiling void. Directly below are workmen and food chillers. As work

continues on the ceiling, our whistle-blower warns M&S the whole

store is at risk of contamination if air conditioning fans are

switched on. I told them at the time it would be almost definite

there would be asbestos dust blown throughout the ceiling and

distributed throughout the store. The electricians are told to remove

the Sir cut breakers and disable the fans -- circuit breakers.

found a tearful foreman who said, I do apologise, I've had to look at

the fans. We were told if we didn't replace the fans we wouldn't get

any more work from them. Marks & Spencers were more worried about

their ice-creams melting than contaminating people with asbestos.

There was a risk they had to shut down if the air conditioning wasn't

on. That is absolutely ridiculous because the manager that put the

fans on were criminally negligent. No other term you can apply. Hard

board is taped over gaps in the asbestos ceiling. The tape gives

way and a piece almost hits a mother and child in a buggy. There

was asbestos fibres and dust near the mother and anybody else in the

area. You could see big chunks of it. Plastic sheeting is used to

seal the holes. That also falls down. These photographs show the

raw edges of tiles, the ceiling tape has come off. On one occasion,

the man retaping it wears a protective mask in the open store.

Marks & Spencers at this point absolutely freaked out that there

was a guy walking through their store wearing a full face mask. He

was never allowed to do that again. But the works did not stop.

fear is that everyone in the store is being put at risk. Very busy

store. There was young mothers with children in prams, push chairs, you

know, old people, young people, everybody in store. The usual Marks

& Spencers customers. There's a definite chance of contamination.

It's heart-breaking to think that there are school children and prams

and push chairs wheeled about by unwitting parents in push chairs

that might not see their 40th birthday. One of your staff was

told to get back into an area and advised to move away by the

contractors and a contractor says no, go back and carry on with your

work. Is that normal standards? are leer the implementation of our

policy at Reading was not correct. We'll make sure that never happens

again. We checked thoroughly that the policy has been implemented and

we are clear that policy today is leading standard in the industry

and probably the world. Interesting then that the fans were turned on

in a roof void where potentially asbestos was there that could have

been spread around the rest of the store? This was regrettable. The

implementation of policy was not good at Reading. Despite attempts

to lay responsibility at the doors of the contractors, the jury

decided Marks & Spencers was responsible. The judge said there

had been a systemic failure by M&S management. Their response to

asbestos safety complaints had been to turn a pliend eye to what was

happening because the asbestos work was already costing the company too

much -- blind eye. To keep profits as high as reasonably possible,

insufficient time and space were allocated to asbestos removal.

Breaches were committed over a continuous time in five months by a

company made a profit close to nearly �500 million. M&S will never

put profit before safety. There was never a blind eye. Investigations

were full and thorough. We had a good policy which the judge

described as practical. Implement aix was not good at Reading and we

regret it. -- implementation. winner is Marks & Spencers.

September 2011. Marks & Spencers receives the Oracle world retail

award for being the most responsible retailer, the same

month it's also fined �1 million and ordered to pay �600,000 in

costs for the asbestos failures at its Reading store. The judge said

contractors, staff and shoppers have a right to be ang shus about

whether they've breathed asbestos fibres -- anxious -- and what

effect that might have on their well being and future. The anxiety

may lurk in people's minds for many years and with good reason. The

judge even said that in the five years since those incidents

occurred, he was doubtful that every reasonable step had been

taken by M&S to prevent a reputation of what happened at

Reading -- repetition. He also imposed fines on two of M&S's

contractors. The judge said he wasn't confident that since the

incidents that you have put all reasonable measures in place?

were disappointed by those comments. Since 2006 we have worked closely

with the BRC, the HSE and the hygiene society which have said

that our practices are world standard. Why not close the stoors

completely when removing asbestos? We do. We perform works when the

stores are closed at night in the same way that many people in the

industry do and the way they do in schools. We think that's the best

practice, it's done in line with HSE guidelines. In 129-year history

of Marks & Spencers there's only ever been one health and safety

endorsement at Reading and we are sorry about that. We have made sure

that the policy's moved on and there's absolutely no danger to

staff or customers in our stores. The expert testimony at Reading

would say that there was no risk to our customers or our staff. M&S was

found not guilty of breaches of asbestos regulations at Bournemouth

and Plymouth. The contract o Corrs -- contractors were fined.

Every year, more than 4,000 people die of mesothelioma and asbestos-

related cancer which can take decades to develop. The pace of the

disease means many people never know when or where they were

exposed to it. Marks & Spencers and the whole of the retail industry

what happened ten, 20 or 30 years ago may still have an impact today.

Any suggestion that contractors, shop workers or customers were put