04/02/2013 Inside Out North West

Howell, and Tony Livesey. Welcome to Inside Out north-west. This week,

we are in Bolton, where we will find out how this market is doing

during the recession. On tonight's programme...

Marks & Spencer in the firing line. R �1 million fine for asbestos

breaches. We reveal the company was warned of problems eight years

earlier. I recommended that all areas were

handed over to the licensed asbestos removal. Coming to the

street near you - at the pay-day loans shop. We examine the battle

to try and control them. We are getting to the stage where

politicians have an appetite to regulate pay-day loans companies.

This is celeriac. It is a root vegetable, a bit ugly looking...

I am going back to their roots - the ball to market teaching

shoppers healthy eating. -- the Managers turned a blind eye to

complaints about asbestos, and shoppers are right to be anxious

over whether they believed potentially lethal asbestos fibres.

That was the view of a judge as he imposed a �1 million fine on one of

Britain's best-known retailers after a health and safety breach at

a store in the south. Inside Out has been asking if the problems

were confined to just one Marks & Peter Jackson was a warehouse man

at M&S in Ashton under Lyne for almost three decade. Seven years

ago he was diagnosed with mesothelioma. The doctor asked him

he had for it -- if he had worked with asbestos and he said he had

not. While Peter chatted to wipe them

during a store refurbishment, he was breathing dust from ceiling

tiles they were working on Ajax described conditions in a statement.

I could see the dust in the auction grit. Men doing the work wore white

boiler suit and masks. I wore my own clothes.

The dust contained asbestos. People died in 2008 and was paid

compensation by M&S. -- Peter died. If you look back to the 1960s and

1970s come into is possible staff were exposed to asbestos.

Society did not understand the risks as we do today. It is tragic

our staff and colleagues were affected in this way. Any illness

relating to asbestos is terrible, and we paid compensation come and

that is right. I am clear that we have learned our policies have

become industry leading. Peter is one of a number of people

it is claimed developed asbestos related disease from working at M&S.

They include James McCann, a ceiling fitter who often worked at

M&S and Liverpool and the north- west in the 1960s and 70s.

The whole thing is a dusty operation. You're drilling 16 holes

in every tile, you were cutting, working, chamfering. I would come

home once and my mother thought I looked very ill, she said, Jim, you

look ashen. It was the asbestos on my face. James has pleural plaques,

lung scarring caused by the asbestos. I think it is impossible

to say that the link to work in Marks & Spencer is the cause,

because these people worked for a long time on a variety of projects

in different buildings. It is unfortunate many of the people who

worked in the building trade at that time were exposed to asbestos,

and the tragic consequences we see today. Most of our major retailers

have stores that contain asbestos, some have even been fined for

breaching regulations. They include Ajax of Fraser, the quarter,

Topshop and John Lewis. -- House of Fraser. But evidence we have of M&S

is worrying. It suggests the risks to customers, staff and contractors

may not have been fully acknowledged. One case in

particular is concerning. In 1998, M&S reproduces its flab -- flagship

store in Marble Arch in London. William Wallace, a health and

safety officer, is horrified by what he sees.

They wear asbestos mine fields, for the want of a better expression.

You could not have guaranteed the safety of anybody. He said he

flagged up the safety problems with little effect, so began copying

pages left by the day and night shifts. This report from April,

1998, says the day shift has done it again. Cladding has been

stripped with a sledgehammer. Asbestos is everywhere. It is the

third occasion in a week where they have had to clear up after a

dangerous or currents. Somebody has to controlled the day shift if they

do not want the store closed and the HS C -- H S E crawling all over

you. Have renders, scandalous. A

recommended all areas were handed Oldham -- overtook licensed

asbestos removal. William Wallace wrote to the M&S executive Sir

Richard Greenbury and met senior managers. M&S says it takes the

matter seriously and is taking appropriate action. What action did

it take? Or on the face of those allegations,

they are worrying, but our team at the time, 15 years ago, thoroughly

investigated. They thoroughly investigated three months

afterwards, and I have spoken to those individuals and can find no

case whatsoever to say that any member of staff or the public were

put at risk. M&S also says William Wallace was mistaken about which

materials may have contained asbestos. We understand and

investigators believe there was not asbestos everywhere.

We invited Mr Wallace in. His cool wit -- claims were discussed. He

went a week, we think, happy. At the same time he was invited to

report to the Health and Safety Executive, but did not do that,

therefore we believe there is no case to answer. In 2006, William

Wallace began working as a safety manager for a contractor

refurbishing M&S Reading. He is horrified again by what PCs. There

was very little control by the various contractors being asked to

work on the ceiling voids. I did find other reports of incidents

that had awkward. Very frightening. It's scary, really. Following a

tip-off, the Health and Safety Executive squad on the Reading

store. MMS and two contractors are prosecuted. -- M&S.

This building worker fears being blacklisted by the industry, so we

have disguised his identity. He describes to the court a girl

stacking sandwich packs. You could see the dust falling down on to

this girl. We approached her and asked her if she would move

somewhere else. The Night Manager responsible for the refilling of

the shells came and went absolutely ballistic at us. He said, you do

not tell our staff would ago and sent us back. The gaps in the

ceiling are initially sealed with hardboard. It fell out of the

ceiling narrowly missing a small child in a buggy by a couple of

feet. That trialled would obviously have had asbestos fibres and dust,

as would the mother and anyone in the area. In court, Marks & Spencer

tried to blame contractors for all problems.

We are clear that the implementation of policy at Reading

was not correct. We will make sure that never happens again. We will

check thoroughly the policy is being internet did and I might

policy today is leading that standard in the industry and a

world. Industry leading, get fans were switched on in a roof where

potentially there was asbestos. This is regrettable. As I said,

implementation of policy was not good in Reading, we are sorry about

that and have taken steps to make sure it never happens again. M&S

was found guilty of asbestos breaches in Reading, fined �1

million and ordered to pay �600,000 in costs. The judge said there had

been a systemic failure by M&S management. Their response to

Yemenis -- asbestos safety complaint had been to turn a blind

eye to what was happening because the asbestos what was already

costing the company too much. To keep profits as high as reasonably

proffered -- possible, insufficient time and space were allocated to

asbestos removal. M&S has never put profit before safety. Our

investigations were full and thorough. We had a good policy that

the judge described as sensible and practical. The implementation of

the policy was not good in Reading, and we are very sorry, we regret

that. The judge said contractors, staff and shoppers have a right to

be anxious about whether they have believed asbestos fibres and what

effect that might have won their well-being and future. But M&S

disagrees. I think, in its protest amid --

expert testimony at Reading says there is no risk to customers or

staff. Two of M&S's contractors were also

fined. The company was found not guilty of asbestos breaching

regulations at Bournemouth and Plymouth.

But the year, 4,000 people died of mesothelioma and asbestos related

lung cancer. -- every year. The pace of the

disease appeared -- means people will never know when or where they

were exposed. Two Marks & Spencer Andy Powell of the retail industry,

what happened 10, 20 or 30 years ago may still have an impact today.

Any suggestion contractors, workers or customers were put at risk

Coming up... Bargains in Bolton. The market by

offering a European first. You have to keep hold of the

customers you have and build on the The recession is hitting our High

Street hard, but despite tough trading conditions, one particular

kind of shock is thriving. Pay-day loans stores are increasingly

common and are dominating shopping Pay-day loans companies have

undergone a boom as the recession has taken hold. The industry has

grown fivefold in the last five years. It is currently worth around

onto the high street, which some find a worrying development.

People get sucked into borrowing money from these companies and find

it very difficult to get out from it. The misery that is created by

pay-day loans companies in Rochdale is substantial.

On tonight's Inside Out, we investigate the growth of pay-day

loans companies on our high street and ask whether the high interest

credit sector is taking money away from the poorest communities.

Here in Rochdale's, pay-day blunts companies provide small loans to

shoppers on the high street. They give short-term fixed cost of flat

fee loans, including to those with poor credit history. They are

supposed to take people over to pay-day, but many offered to roll

over the loan until next month. With interest rates of up to 4,000%,

some customers have struggled to keep up payments. This woman

borrowed �100.30 years ago and now owns -- now always nearly �2,500

after borrowing more money elsewhere to meet the original

payment. They very stressful, I don't sleep

and things like that. We are constantly worrying about it. I

think they prey on the vulnerable because they know that you want the

money. At the end of the day, they are there for a reason. Up that is

why they get people like us. They know full well that we are

We're bringing competition to the high street and meeting the needs

of people who want to go down the short term lending route and do not

want to keep adding money to their credit cards and using personal

loans to the bank that they are paying off for three or five years.

They are taking a short-term loan for a short-term need, and most

people are paying it back in full, and on time. But Simon Danzcuk

disagrees. He's the MP for Rochdale which has nine payday shops on

their high street. There is no doubt about it that we have got too

many PDA loan companies in Rochdale. There is a demand or run neat in

terms of people wanting to borrow money in the sort of way that you

would borrow it from a PD one company. But it is not sustainable.

It means money is coming out of the local economy because the profits

these companies make go to international businesses, so that

is money being sucked out of the local economy which is no good for

the people of Rochdale. Credit Unions are often held up as a

better alternative, although just two per cent of the UK population

use them. The Governmenthasrecently invested �38 million to help

increase their membership. But some say they'll never get anywhere,

unless they get on the high street. I think it would be hugely

beneficial to our membership but more importantly to the people of

Rochdale, because they can see that we are there, we are not parked a

we're hidden away, they do not have to find out where we are, they can

see where we are. We had a proper shop for four weeks at the

beginning of last week and that have this huge impact on the

membership with many members joining up in those four weeks. And

it has highlighted that if we are there and people can walk into us

they will come and find out about it, and wants they do find out,

people are very willing to use our services. It all comes back to

who's on the high street. So what's the solution? Well, many councils

would like to restrict the numbers of payday loan stores. The Local

Government Association's policy on the matter is headed by local

council leader Mike Jones. A some councils might say that we have got

room for those on the high street, but the problem is what you have

got 10 or 15 of them, destroying the retail part of the high street.

We want to stop the opportunities for paid a loan companies to

prosper. But a loophole in town planning regulations mean that's

not so easy. Shops are divided into five different planning

classifications A1-5. A1 is normal retail shops like clothes stores

and newsagents. A2, financial services, and A3-5 covers pubs,

restaurants and takeaways. Currently, payday loans stores can

open up in any building classed A2- 5. The council has no say in the

matter. The choice is, do you make the system much more complicated or

do you give councils the discretion to have some flexibility and I

would like to see councils having more powers and more discretion on

what they can and cannot allow within towns and city centres.

We're getting to the stage where politicians have an appetite to

limit the and regulate paid a loan companies. There is an emphasis in

parliament. That is what we are quickly moving towards. 12 months

ago, the Queen of Shops, Mary Portas suggested that planning

applications for betting shops should be reclassified to allow

councils to restrict their numbers. Back in the region this week, she

turned her attention to payday loan stores. It is not just the council

having a say, it is the people. People should have a say in what

they will be the next they need in their high street and to be working

together with landlords and retailers, and they will be the

ones. What I want is a Voyce for people in their towns. We have

heard people say we do not want that supermarket there. This is

giving a genuine Voyce to the people and giving them an

opportunity to make a change. Hopefully, something very good will

come out of it. The payday industry maintains that the system works

fine as it is. It is high rents and rates that are stopping the growth

of the high street. What we're seeing is that people are choosing

to go out of town, choosing to go to the department store a

supermarket that is outside the high street. That is nothing to do

with the advent of pay-day lending. It is filling up what would have

been a boarded-up shop. In November, an amendment was made to the

financial services bill to give the power to cap lenders interest rates

but there areno proposed changes to council planning powers. So for the

foreseeable future THIS appears to be how our high streets will look.

We have all heard about the recession hitting the high street.

It seems that every week and the killer goes to the wall. But are

there any winners? It seems that markets are fuelling a boom as we

look for cheaper ways to feed our families and here in Boughton they

have come up with some innovative ways of attracting customers. If if

There's been a market in Bolton for more than 750 years, four days a

week more than 100 traders rise early to set our their stall.

4, be down here for 4:30 and as soon as we get here, switch the

light on and start work. We've got the get the stall ready, it takes

eight hours from one end to the other to get it ready. So it's not

an easy job, it's not easy. It's a hard life and it's a way of life,

it's not a job. You don't just do your 40 hours a week and that's it,

it is a way of life. There's no ringing in sick, saying, "I can't

come in, I don't feel very well. It's in all weathers, you keep

going. The traders have managed to We've not done too badly at all, if

anything we've got slightly busier. I think people now are more price-

conscious and didn't realise that the markets are a much cheaper

option than supermarkets. And we have an awful lot of new customers

now coming down. They're slightly lost the first time they come down,

they're unsure where to go, what to do and how to handle it all. It's

not your normal supermarket set up. So it just needs a little

explaining. The sooner they pick it up, the sooner they start enjoying

themselves and then they turn into regulars. Part of the market's

appeal is it sells produce that is seldom found elsewhere. So when

somebody asks for something and we've never heard of it, write it

down, we will find it. We'll Google it or whatever but we will find it

somewhere and then he'll go and get it. It doesn't matter if it cost �1

or �1,000, we will buy it. Yeah, well we cater for everybody.

Jamaicans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, all the lot. French Yam,

White Yam, Yellow Yam, Cassava. You've got to go to Birmingham for

most of these things which, our John goes at 3:30 Wednesday morning.

It's an eight-hour drive there and back just to pick this stuff up for

the Jamaicans. It's this approach that has won traders coach loads of

customers from all over the country. Yes, it's our Salmon that were

known for. We have people coming from as far as Leicester. We have a

lot of people from the Lakes, just for the salmon. Yeah, we've got

Trevally fish from New Zealand, Milk fish from Indonesia, Yellow

Croaker from Argentina. If somebody wants something specific, we will

order it. If we've got a little bit of notice, we will order it for

them. People are definitely looking for more bargains but we have got

the deals to give to everybody and that is why they come here. It is a

big competition in this market, all the difference stallholders are

trading and competing with each other. And the customers gain from

it. It is good because they always get good deals. Bolton Market has

won several awards and has the endorsement of celebrity chefs.

With three million visitors a year, it's now redeveloping and expanding,

setting its sights on becoming THE destination market of the North.

That's what it will be - the taste of Lancashire. New bakery,

charcuterie, it will be things people want to come here and shop

for, in the same way you see in the Mediterranean, European approach to

shopping. Take Barcelona for example 43 street markets in 2.75

million population. All of them are food markets. That engenders a way

that means people will come to a food market and shop for food once

or twice a week. It's the norm, it's what they do. Less food miles,

less waste, more in touch with food and they can all cook. This "little

and often" approach to shopping is rarely seen in the UK, where we

tend to do one big supermarket shop a week. And like the supermarkets,

Bolton Market is hoping to attract more shoppers by being the first

market in Europe to offer a loyalty scheme to its customers. It's gone

really well. Basically a lot of people are getting 10% on the card

so basically there's about 15-20 people who have signed up to it. We

have the flags here saying "market loyalty" and we just honour it.

It's a case that you have to keep hold of the customers you have it's

about getting new ones and keeping them cos when you tend to loose

them you don't get them back It is so were wrecked. It is a root

vegetable and it is a bit ugly looking. And for those who find

market shopping too intimidating there is the "wellbeing project".

Bolton is the first market in the country to have an NHS nutrition

worker on hand to teach people how to shop and then cook the produce.

You might say, I don't want all of that, what am I going to do with

it? People a little bit cheeky sometimes in a nice way, and seen

how I arm with people, they can see all the produce and we can go round

and chat about things and look at seasonal cooking. So they, for

eight weeks, 10-12, 12-1230, they have got to work at it. It's quite

a fast pace. I lost my husband 23 years ago and then I was on my own

so I didn't bother. I just used to cook things, you see what I mean?

It was a long time ago so it's just to get your confidence back. There

are a lot of markets. Everything. Even the idea of having cookery

lessons at markets. But, to remove the need lessons in the basics of

shopping and cooking? I do not think people should have to learn

to shop. They know what they might make for their own personal use so

wide to they me to be taught how to shop? We have gone too far the

other way. We have lost the other communities side of shopping. A in

the supermarket you per Cup things that are already made so you do not

know what you're eating. People say it is expensive to eat, but if you

coming here, we have a wealth of experience and loss of interest and

enthusiasm, and I can pass some of that on two people. What we were

talking about is how people would not like this, their partners. But

they have never eaten things like this and wants they Catt tried it,

they quite like it. -- once they have tried it. I spoke to Joan, she

is doing the demonstration. The lifestyle has changed. I used to

eat all the wrong things, all white bread, didn't have any see Wales, I

do now. So if you've been won over and are thinking of shopping at

your local market here are some top tips. Just have a look round first,

spend half an hour and just walk round looking at the different

things that they've got. If you like something and you've never had

it, you can try it, I'll let you try anything you like. So instead

of trying to come down with a recipe of what you need, come down

to the market, find out what's good and then take your recipes from

there. Just come down and ask us. Anything you want, chopped,

filleting, we do all three. We will clean them, fillet them, if you're

prepared to take them home and do it yourself, we will sell them a

little bit cheaper. Believe it or not, all the lads here even give

advice on how to cook it. Just ask us, any questions and we will be

more than happy to help. It will be a sorry day if this market ever

closes. It seemed silly to pay supermarket prices. That is all

from me at Bolton market. If you have missed any of the show you can