07/01/2013 Inside Out South East

The strength of alcohol. Would you define yourself as a street

drinker? I would. A new scheme to get the drinkers off Fuss Streete.

If you can build up a relationship over time, you reach a point where

they are willing to come in and sit down and talk about their drinking.

Is chucking a good way to raise money for charity? This is

something that will help us ensure the sustainability of this

fundraising, because that is what the charity needs. Or is it

harassment? Have you got 10 minutes?

And one of the biggest gypsy events of the year. We have come here for

the last three years, had so much fun, so we come every year now.

Natalie Graham with untold stories, closer to home. From all round the

south and south-east, this is Tonight, we are up above Chatham,

on the Great Lines, where during the war, the guns provide the last

line of defence for the Medway Towns. We stopped night with Vince

Rogers. WHITE It's a typical day in Chatham.

The town centre is an alcohol control zone. And PC Paul Billings

is rounding up the usual suspects. Let me just say it is one thing to

you. They do not want people drinking around here. I can take

the alcohol or few all day long and I know you're going to get it again.

But this really does have to stop - You'll see them in almost any big

high street. Be drinking in the town -- they are not supposed be

drinking in the town, they know the rules. But in Medway, the police -

working with the Council, the NHS and local charities - are trying a

new approach to deal with street drinkers. Their problems are not

something that can be fixed in one day.

On the high street in Chatham, I bumped into Daniel and Louise. They

are brother and sister. Would you define yourself as a

street drinker? Or I probably would, yes, because I do drink on the

street. And the louisemacro, you are a street drinker? Yes, but I

never used to. But what is the harm in the pin down the High Street,

chilling out and having a quiet drink with a few friends --

sniffing? One member of Medway Street cancels the street drinkers

are bad for town centres. -- says street drinkers are bad for town

centres. It frightens people, if they are quietly drinking summer,

it is not so bad, but they are not, they are causing noise and the

nuisance from antisocial behaviour. I have been in trouble so many

times that the police. I did 12 years in prison, in 14 years, I

have had two years out, I have been out for weeks out of prison, so it

has been a rocky road. The old technique to deal with the

problem was to move street drinkers on - or arrest them if they didn't

do what they were told by police. Do you know it is an alcohol

control zone? You're not allowed to drink here. But that didn't appear

to be working. So now the new technique, being tried for the

first time in Kent, is to encourage street drinkers to get professional

help. Simply by arresting somebody and imposing fines, for imprisoning

them, it may not cure the long-term problem, so we decided to try and

educate them, offer them more support and access to services to

try and prevent the offending behaviour and help their lifestyles.

Louise says her troubles began when she fell in with the wrong crowd.

To escape, she moved to Plymouth to run a pub, but then returned to

Medway to be near her mother, who had become ill. And she has

attracted the attention of social services. You have social services

on your back and things like that, for domestic violence and whatever,

losing your children. She has for five kids. She lost them. What you

mean lost? Social services. what the mother of five children

and they have been taken away? are in social services for domestic

violence. So to deal with that, you have turned to alcohol to help?

it numbs the pain, because I feel lost without the children. Of wood

and farmer hair on their body. the beer help? -- 5 would not harm

a hair on their bodies. And this that the whole? It does and it

doesn't. Kent Police call the new street

drinkers initiative Operation Impede and it includes other

organisations in the area. For instance, the Medway Alcohol

Service, part of the NHS, regularly patrol with the police and offer to

help the drinkers get off the booze. If he would like some help with

anything, the phone number is on there. Peter Mackie is an Alcohol

Worker who says the technique is to slowly engage with all the drinkers.

If you can build up a relationship over time and get to know people,

they talk a little bit more about their problems and you give them a

little bit of help and eventually, you reach a point where they are

willing to come down and have a serious conversation about their

drinking. A you do a lot of drinking on the

street? Yes. How much you drink a day? A lot. It depends. Her much

money you have. I have got plenty. A white witches say you drink? Why

do you drink that White would you say you drink? I am on the street

every day. I can't stay in one place at one time. I am on the

street again, that is why I walk around.

But are they aware that this is an Alcohol Control Zone?

What about where we are, is this in the zone? It is, we are doing

something naughty. If you come down to the office on Friday,

increasingly sober, we will see what we can work out for you.

Some people have had enough. And they want to change. And that makes

my life and have a bit easier. and little bit easier.

Meanwhile, Kent Police are continuing their patrol when they

get a call about a man carrying a can of lager and behaving

suspiciously. I don't know what it is you're trying to put their. --

there. They search him and find Class A drugs. Have you got any

idea? Just a bit of crack? Heroin. I am sorry, I have got to have

eschewed for possession of class A. He did not have to say anything but

it may harm your defence... Now this man is in serious trouble.

But what is uppermost in his mind? Can you just let me finish my dear?

You can take me on everything else, just let me finish my beer. Don't

be like this. Get the camera out of my face, let me finish my beer. I

am on the Valiums. If I don't, somebody else is going to take it.

Don't be like that. The thing I find astonishing is he wanted his

lager. Yes, he has an addiction to alcohol, so that becomes more

important to him than anything else, even being arrested. Can I just

fish my dear? It is an alcohol controls loan. -- Can I finish my

drink. The one not going to be drinking. Oh, my days. What are you

doing? He later pleaded guilty to possession of a class A drug and

cotton eight weeks suspended sentence. That got an eight week

suspended sentence. Many street drinkers in Medway turn

to a local charity for help. Caring Hands is a day centre run by King's

Church in Chatham. They can have a hot meal, pick-ups and free clothes,

get the laundry done and have a shower. That pick-up some free

clothes. But the founder of the charity says

street drinkers are here to stay. Will it ever be done with, very

unlikely, but we're certainly managing it much better now than we

did 10 years ago and I think Medway is a better place for it.

And who should we meet but Colin, the man who was ticked off by the

police earlier. I am telling you, this really does have to stop.

police move you on, didn't they? They gave you a bit of a talking to.

How you feel about that? It was a bit out of order, because we have

got nowhere to drink. A lot of people complain about people

drinking on the street, hanging around in car parks. About people

like you. I know, I don't know why. We don't cause no problems. But

unfortunately, we get judged a lot. If they see one side of the road or

on a park bench and you have a can of alcohol in your hand, people

just as you straight away that she must be a bad person. Isn't it a

reasonable assumption? But they are not bad people. Everyone has

trouble in life. It is their way of coping.

At this time of year, the cold weather does more than anything

else to keep drinkers off the streets. But when summer 2013

arrives, it will be interesting to see how effective Medway's new

Coming up on Inside Out: this is the way charities recruit

supporters. We all get very frustrated walking

down the High Street of people following you. How you doing? Nice

suit, that kind of thing. We'll try and avoid it as much as we can.

Now, around 170 gypsy families and their forces from Kent, London and

all across the country gathered at Danica's home for one of the

biggest events in a year. Danny Cooper's. So when Rona got an

invitation to go a long, we could They come from all over the country.

And this is the proper New Forest drive. There are a couple of small

ones, but they're just trying to copy me. I started to drive about

nine years ago. At first it was just friends and family. We had 27

on the first one and every year, it has but bigger and bigger and

bigger. Today, there are 170-odd horses. Everybody loves to get

together and they come from all over the country to come on the

drive, and I'm just trying to keep things right they do love the

colour of the horses and it is their pride and joy. That is why we

do it. We have come here the last three years and we have had so much

fun, so we come every year now. Every year we have an extra course,

so this is Albert, this will be his second time and physically, it is

her first time. We like that it is so well organised and everybody is

friendly and there to help you and you see the same faces year after

year, it is with it that her -- fun. No reunion is complete without

music and one song has been specially written to celebrate the

occasion. HE SINGS It is a dramatic event and

although it doesn't have official approval, the authorities know it

is going to happen and seemed to turn a blind eye.

A lot of holiday people like to see it and you get the odd one he

doesn't like it, but they take their photographs. But you just get

the odd one. They are forgetting, the horses were here before the

cars. But life is changing and forces have become more of a hobby

than a necessity. -- horses. A lot if it won the 50s and 60s travelled

with a nomadic lifestyle but a lot of us have settled down, it is 2012,

I have a couple of businesses. I have four children in school, two

go to ground as well and one of them works in the City of London,

but be warned to keep the culture that one goes to ground as well. If

you are from India and you come to England, you are still Indian and

we are travellers. We still have weddings and parties and that

Fulcher and the children grow up with the principles. 95% of

travellers have very good malls and principles, that morals, the

daughters of what are not to have boyfriends until the right age. The

odd 5% for you can't help, but there's a lot more people that do

bad things that travellers in my opinion. So we like to meet up and

her family weddings and these sort of things and it keeps our children

in the tradition we have been brought up with. My parents live in

trailers and my great-grandparents lived in trailers, and we want to

With a long line of horses like this crossing busy tourist routes,

an event like this has its dangers and the organisers live in fear

And it all changes in Brockenhurst, where the youngsters, in particular,

they let rip. We like to keep the family altogether. If the kids love

horses and all white, they are with them all the time. At the moment I

am feeling very tense and pushed. I'm hoping that when we get back

home that everyone is back safe. That is a day over with, we can

relax then and do what we have to do. The horses will be washed down,

everybody else will be tidied up, they can be fed and put to bed, and

then we can start enjoying ourselves. People come up and say

they have had a good day, they Now, nearly 29 million people give

to charity every month. But when all you want to do is go shopping,

is it harassment or a vital part of fund raising to be approached in

the street? Keir MacKenzie reports. Mind if I could do for 10 minutes?

No, I am busy. Hello, can no trouble you for two minutes? All

right, have a nice day. It's called face-to-face fundraising and helps

raise tens of millions pounds for charities every year. This is the

way charities recruit supporters more than any other around the

world. If you went into any developed town or city to date he

would find people raising money this way. But it's often referred

to as charity mugging, or "chugging" and can make walking

down any High Street in Kent or Sussex a rather stressful

experience for some. I think the way they go about it can be quite

intimidating and frustrating. They follow you, Chair issue, can I give

you a hug, how are you doing? I think we tried to avoid it as much

as we can. So what's the answer? Have new regulations and agreements

gone far enough to improve this type of fundraising? Yes, this is

something that will help us insure the sustainability of this kind of

fund raising. Or is there more work still to be done? Where they her

rash to in the street it passes the limit of what is acceptable and

that is why we need statutory regulation. To help us try to find

out if that's true we're joining the EveryChild charity and their

team of face-to-face fundraisers on a shift in Canterbury. The charity

raises money to help vulnerable children abroad and has teams of

fundraisers like this out across the country every day. There are

four fundraisers here today the man in the cap is Jasmeet Oberoy, and

he's got a very clear goal. Our aim is to secured long-term donors to

ensure the charity can do what it needs to do in the future. We stop

strangers in public, it tried to build a rapport with them, let them

know about the charity and the work that we took and encourage them to

make a long-term, two Kiev minimum donation. With the minimum of �8.

And Jasmeet has his work cut out. On average a face-to-face

fundraiser will have to approach 180 people in order to get one

person to sign up. But Jasmeet is aiming at just one. How many people

do you hope to get today? We always ate we always aim for three each as

a minimum. In 2011, face-to-face fundraisers like Jasmeet signed up

over 800,000 people to support a charity in the long term, including

those going to door to door. They raised over �130 million, and more

and more charities are starting to use them, from Save the Children

and Red Cross to smaller charities like EveryChild. It is the main way

by quite a long way that we recruit new supporters. Every year we have

a target to recruit new supporters so that we can generate income to

spend on children around the world. How much of a percentage of the

income comes from this kind of fund-raising? It is about 90 % of

new rich supporters that we recruit and of the total income over time,

probably about 40 % has come from this source, so very important..

But does this fundraising success come at a cost to the general

public? It is a controversial way of raising money because many

complain they feel harassed. Whilst it appeared that Jasmeet's approach

was polite, that often isn't the experience of people visiting High

Streets in the South East. At least, not the majority of people we spoke

to a few days before we filmed with EveryChild. I think it is an

intrusion. I much prefer to pick my own charities and to support them.

I would rather they did not keep bothering you. Is that what it

feels like? Yes, all the time. tend to look the other way or if I

am with someone else attend to tour, so they don't catch my eye. So my

initial reaction is a bit of unease. And it's not just shoppers. Some

traders claim it can impact on their business. Eton to find that

people avoid the charity workers and there will go completely to the

opposite side of your store and will stop them coming in. It is a

bit awkward for a sometimes in jobs because people do try to avoid them,

unfortunately. It is a bit of a balancing act. Obviously not

everyone is positive about this kind of fund raising. It is a fine

line between stopping people and harassing people. You know where to

draw that line? I base of thing I do on the law of averages is. He

just enough people you're going to get some response that is how I

have always worked. That harassment does not come into it. From what

we'd seen of Jasmeet that was certainly true, but watch that

interview again and this time watch his colleague working in the

background. It is a fine line between stopping people are

interesting people. To know where to stop that line? Now some people

might find that type of behaviour intimidating, and it's things like

the attempt at a hug that can cause offence. We all get frustrated

walking down the High Street and having people follow you, Chair

issue, can I give you a hug, that kind of thing. It is in your face,

too much. I know they're trying to do the job but at the end of the

day, if I want to join a charity I will actually join it and not to be

confronted walking down the street. But in 2012, steps were taken to

try to stamp out what's considered to be bad practice. Under new rules

fundraisers are not allowed to stand within three meters of a shop

doorway. They can't follow someone for more than three steps. And they

can't interrupt someone who appears to be working. If they repeatedly

breach those rules they can be fined. What we did is put some meat

behind those questions about what is construction, what is harassment,

are you obstructing an entrance, and if you are whether it is within

three metres. We got quite specific about what some of the behaviour is

meant and that meant we could enforce it more effectively through

mystery shopping and our compliance programme. We have to balance what

we're doing so that charities can go about their business and raise

the funds are many but the public can go about their business and not

be put under in to pressure. But is this really about eliminating bad

practice, or is face-to-face fundraising just plain wrong? There

are those that liken the charity workers to salesman. After all,

they are paid. In Jasmeet's case, �9 an hour plus bonuses depending

on the number and type of people he signs up. So if he only signs up

one person today their first 12-15 months of payments will go to

paying for Jasmeet's wages. And he doesn't even work directly for the

charity, he's employed by an agency. And for Dover and Deal MP Charlie

Elphicke, this approach to fundraising simply isn't acceptable.

We need to understand what chuggers are. They are commissioned sellers.

They are not people employed by the charity, they are people contracted

on commission to raise funds. So they are not interested necessarily

in the reputation of the charity concerned. My concern is that the

behaviour of these chuggers harms the entire charity brand and harms

trust in charities in the UK because people begin to associate

charities with aggressive fund- raising techniques. And Mr Elphicke

is convinced that these new rules, which fall under the banner of

self-regulation, don't go far enough. We either need a proper

code of statutory regulation or complete ban. There is a sharp

difference between the person holding it to him and the person

who harasses you in the street. Charities need to step up to the

plate and take Knispel possibility for the fact that they themselves

have completely failed to ensure that chuggers behave properly. Then

should not be surprised that Parliament might take action on it.

But is Mr Elphicke unfairly tarring everyone with the same brush?

EveryChild says it's taken steps to try to ensure their fundraisers act

responsibly. Whilst they do work for an agency, they work

exclusively for EveryChild a step taken by some charities to ensure

they are fundraisers are committed to the cause and are less likely to

do something that would give them a bad name. And in Jasmeet's case

that seems to have worked everyone we spoke to who was approached by

him had only good things to say. Yes, he was OK. He was polite?

Do you mind being stopped? No, as also did try and stay in your wife.

He was very polite. He was very nice. Had he signed up? Know.

the fact remains you're being approached and asked to give and

when you are simply going about your day, is that really fair? It's

a question we put to the Institute of Fundraising. Some people might

argue that if I want to give to charity a will see go to charity

and give. Is that not fair enough? I think it is common sense that

unless you ask you do not get. We have shown polling to show that the

vast majority of people only give to charity when they asked for

support. So when you are stopped and asked for support just think

about it, and if you're not interested just say no. That's

exactly what people have done with Jasmeet today. Despite a few close

calls, he's failed to recruit anyone today. But, unless laws

change, there's always tomorrow. look to get three a day over the

week. So that is 15 over the week. And it is Monday! You could be one

of the people Jasmeet approaches the question is, if he's polite and

respectful, should it really bother you?

Do not forget that if you want any more information about tonight

showed you can go to our Kent or Sussex websites. You can also watch

the whole programme again on iPlayer. Coming up next week. We

expose the dead to the lows of legal highs. She did not even make

it to hospital, she just died. Germaine Greer on the woman from

Canterbury who set the trend for female writers. I love her because

of her ridiculous courage. And the Surrey man who returns to Bosnia to