25/02/2013 Inside Out South East


25/02/2013

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The family being chased for more The family being chased for more

:00:02.:00:07.

The family being chased for more than �400,000 of debt. You must

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than �400,000 of debt. You must than �400,000 of debt. You must

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have been under immense pressure, have been under immense pressure,

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have been under immense pressure, have been under immense pressure,

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how have you coped? It has been how have you coped? It has been

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how have you coped? It has been how have you coped? It has been

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horrible and I have lost six years horrible and I have lost six years

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horrible and I have lost six years horrible and I have lost six years

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of my life through worried and I of my life through worried and I

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of my life through worried and I cannot see any end in sight.

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cannot see any end in sight. cannot see any end in sight.

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cannot see any end in sight. Fathers in prison - how much should

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Fathers in prison - how much should Fathers in prison - how much should

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they be in touch with their they be in touch with their

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they be in touch with their they be in touch with their

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children? As far as he is concerned, children? As far as he is concerned,

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children? As far as he is concerned, children? As far as he is concerned,

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Daddy is at work. The impact is huge.

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huge. huge.

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And when Kent was nuked. We And when Kent was nuked. We

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And when Kent was nuked. We And when Kent was nuked. We

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discover the film the BBC banned in discover the film the BBC banned in

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discover the film the BBC banned in discover the film the BBC banned in

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discover the film the BBC banned in 1965 and the people who were in it..

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1965 and the people who were in it.. 1965 and the people who were in it..

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We were playing the film crew We were playing the film crew

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We were playing the film crew We were playing the film crew

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turned up, and they said, could we turned up, and they said, could we

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turned up, and they said, could we turned up, and they said, could we

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turn up and shout, and that was us. turn up and shout, and that was us.

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turn up and shout, and that was us. I'm Natalie Graham with untold

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I'm Natalie Graham with untold I'm Natalie Graham with untold

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stories, closer to home. From all stories, closer to home. From all

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stories, closer to home. From all round the South East, this is

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:01:11.:01:22.

Hello, I'm in Dunorlan Park in Hello, I'm in Dunorlan Park in

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Hello, I'm in Dunorlan Park in Tunbridge Wells. Would you believe

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Tunbridge Wells. Would you believe Tunbridge Wells. Would you believe

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Tunbridge Wells. Would you believe Tunbridge Wells. Would you believe

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it, it used to be the back of a it, it used to be the back of a

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it, it used to be the back of a it, it used to be the back of a

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posh house that burnt down in 1957. posh house that burnt down in 1957.

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posh house that burnt down in 1957. posh house that burnt down in 1957.

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First up, with a tale of the First up, with a tale of the

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First up, with a tale of the dangers of debt, it's Glenn

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Campbell. Campbell.

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Campbell. Medway County Court, Chatham. Every

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Medway County Court, Chatham. Every Medway County Court, Chatham. Every

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Thursday is dedicated to people who Thursday is dedicated to people who

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Thursday is dedicated to people who have fallen into debt. It's

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have fallen into debt. It's have fallen into debt. It's

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nicknamed Repo Day. That's short nicknamed Repo Day. That's short

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nicknamed Repo Day. That's short for repossession. And you only have

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for repossession. And you only have for repossession. And you only have

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for repossession. And you only have to look at the stats to understand

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to look at the stats to understand to look at the stats to understand

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why the Medway Towns have a why the Medway Towns have a

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why the Medway Towns have a dedicated debt day in court. You

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dedicated debt day in court. You dedicated debt day in court. You

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see, last year this study ranked see, last year this study ranked

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see, last year this study ranked the Medway Unitary Authority third

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the Medway Unitary Authority third the Medway Unitary Authority third

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for repossessions in the whole of for repossessions in the whole of

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for repossessions in the whole of the South East. When I first

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the South East. When I first the South East. When I first

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started attending the court in 2001, started attending the court in 2001,

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started attending the court in 2001, started attending the court in 2001,

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there was one drug for the morning. there was one drug for the morning.

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there was one drug for the morning. We've now got normally two judges

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We've now got normally two judges We've now got normally two judges

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We've now got normally two judges for the whole day. And as more and

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for the whole day. And as more and for the whole day. And as more and

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for the whole day. And as more and more people walk out of this court

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more people walk out of this court more people walk out of this court

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more people walk out of this court on Repo Day, many of them will

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on Repo Day, many of them will on Repo Day, many of them will

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on Repo Day, many of them will grasp at any solution, good or not

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grasp at any solution, good or not grasp at any solution, good or not

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so good, that comes their way. so good, that comes their way.

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so good, that comes their way. so good, that comes their way.

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Offers of a financial fix that can Offers of a financial fix that can

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Offers of a financial fix that can result in losing your most prized

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result in losing your most prized result in losing your most prized

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result in losing your most prized asset, your home. It is a home to

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asset, your home. It is a home to asset, your home. It is a home to

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somebody. If you are losing your somebody. If you are losing your

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somebody. If you are losing your somebody. If you are losing your

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home, you clutch at any straw you home, you clutch at any straw you

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home, you clutch at any straw you home, you clutch at any straw you

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can see. And clutch at any straw is can see. And clutch at any straw is

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can see. And clutch at any straw is exactly what the Hindmarsh family

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exactly what the Hindmarsh family exactly what the Hindmarsh family

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from Sittingbourne in Kent did. For from Sittingbourne in Kent did. For

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from Sittingbourne in Kent did. For from Sittingbourne in Kent did. For

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them, it all started back in 2007 them, it all started back in 2007

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them, it all started back in 2007 when Mandy fell behind paying the

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when Mandy fell behind paying the when Mandy fell behind paying the

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tax bills for her husband's courier tax bills for her husband's courier

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tax bills for her husband's courier van business. That failure led to

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van business. That failure led to van business. That failure led to

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Steve being declared bankrupt at Steve being declared bankrupt at

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Steve being declared bankrupt at Steve being declared bankrupt at

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Medway County Court and it was then, Medway County Court and it was then,

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Medway County Court and it was then, desperate for money, that they were

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desperate for money, that they were desperate for money, that they were

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thrown a lifeline. Somebody turned thrown a lifeline. Somebody turned

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thrown a lifeline. Somebody turned thrown a lifeline. Somebody turned

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up at the front door telling me up at the front door telling me

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up at the front door telling me up at the front door telling me

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they were going to help. That they they were going to help. That they

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they were going to help. That they were going to get the bankruptcy

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were going to get the bankruptcy were going to get the bankruptcy

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annulled. All the debts paid. annulled. All the debts paid.

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annulled. All the debts paid. Everything would be fine. As if

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Everything would be fine. As if Everything would be fine. As if

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nothing had ever happened, and it nothing had ever happened, and it

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nothing had ever happened, and it was my knight in shining armour.

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was my knight in shining armour. was my knight in shining armour.

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was my knight in shining armour. This is the company that offered to

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This is the company that offered to This is the company that offered to

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erase the Hindmarshes' debt. Called erase the Hindmarshes' debt. Called

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erase the Hindmarshes' debt. Called the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd,

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the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd, the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd,

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and linked to a sister company and linked to a sister company

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called Consolidated Finance Ltd, called Consolidated Finance Ltd,

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called Consolidated Finance Ltd, they're based in these offices in

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they're based in these offices in they're based in these offices in

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Manchester. They claimed that their Manchester. They claimed that their

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Manchester. They claimed that their Manchester. They claimed that their

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service was set up to save people service was set up to save people

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service was set up to save people service was set up to save people

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from losing their home as a result from losing their home as a result

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from losing their home as a result of bankruptcy. When somebody is

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of bankruptcy. When somebody is of bankruptcy. When somebody is

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declared bankrupt, it goes into the declared bankrupt, it goes into the

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declared bankrupt, it goes into the declared bankrupt, it goes into the

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paper, so they must have picked it paper, so they must have picked it

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paper, so they must have picked it paper, so they must have picked it

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up from there. The tax debt that up from there. The tax debt that

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forced the Hindmarshes into forced the Hindmarshes into

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bankruptcy totalled just over bankruptcy totalled just over

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bankruptcy totalled just over bankruptcy totalled just over

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�27,000. On top of that, they were �27,000. On top of that, they were

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�27,000. On top of that, they were behind, to the tune of several

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behind, to the tune of several behind, to the tune of several

:04:02.:04:03.

thousand pounds, with payments to a thousand pounds, with payments to a

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thousand pounds, with payments to a variety of credit card companies.

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variety of credit card companies. variety of credit card companies.

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variety of credit card companies. He said they would give us a loan

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He said they would give us a loan He said they would give us a loan

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to get through mortgage, all the to get through mortgage, all the

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to get through mortgage, all the paperwork, paying off all our

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paperwork, paying off all our paperwork, paying off all our

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creditors, paying off the tax, and creditors, paying off the tax, and

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creditors, paying off the tax, and we would have a clean slate,

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we would have a clean slate, we would have a clean slate,

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nothing to worry about. He even nothing to worry about. He even

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nothing to worry about. He even said our mortgage payments would be

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said our mortgage payments would be said our mortgage payments would be

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said our mortgage payments would be less than we were paying. What can

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less than we were paying. What can less than we were paying. What can

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less than we were paying. What can you say? Thank you? Where did it go

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you say? Thank you? Where did it go you say? Thank you? Where did it go

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you say? Thank you? Where did it go wrong? It was a fantastic deal. He

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wrong? It was a fantastic deal. He wrong? It was a fantastic deal. He

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wrong? It was a fantastic deal. He said... It is engraved in my brain,

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said... It is engraved in my brain, said... It is engraved in my brain,

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we guarantee you, As, hyphenated, we guarantee you, As, hyphenated,

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we guarantee you, As, hyphenated, highlighted, we guarantee you a

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highlighted, we guarantee you a highlighted, we guarantee you a

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remortgage. So the deal looked a remortgage. So the deal looked a

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remortgage. So the deal looked a winner for everyone. Yes, they paid

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winner for everyone. Yes, they paid winner for everyone. Yes, they paid

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winner for everyone. Yes, they paid the tax man, they paid all that

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the tax man, they paid all that the tax man, they paid all that

:04:58.:04:59.

unsecured creditors. And we were unsecured creditors. And we were

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unsecured creditors. And we were sailing and happy. Until that

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sailing and happy. Until that crucial re-mortgage guaranteed by

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crucial re-mortgage guaranteed by crucial re-mortgage guaranteed by

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the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd

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the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd failed to materialize. So let's

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failed to materialize. So let's failed to materialize. So let's

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fast forward six years. It's now fast forward six years. It's now

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fast forward six years. It's now 2013 and the �47,000 original debt

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2013 and the �47,000 original debt 2013 and the �47,000 original debt

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the Hindmarshes had with Bankruptcy the Hindmarshes had with Bankruptcy

:05:13.:05:22.

Protection Fund has reached... Protection Fund has reached...

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Protection Fund has reached... Think of a figure... Well, �400,000.

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Think of a figure... Well, �400,000. Think of a figure... Well, �400,000.

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Christopher Holmes is the director Christopher Holmes is the director

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Christopher Holmes is the director of the Bankruptcy Protection Fund

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of the Bankruptcy Protection Fund of the Bankruptcy Protection Fund

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of the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd. He is also the Director of

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Ltd. He is also the Director of Ltd. He is also the Director of

:05:31.:05:32.

Consolidated Finance Ltd as well as Consolidated Finance Ltd as well as

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Consolidated Finance Ltd as well as a host of other debt solutions

:05:33.:05:34.

a host of other debt solutions a host of other debt solutions

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firms registered here in Manchester. firms registered here in Manchester.

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firms registered here in Manchester. firms registered here in Manchester.

:05:38.:05:39.

When I called Mr Holmes to ask for When I called Mr Holmes to ask for

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When I called Mr Holmes to ask for an interview to discuss the

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an interview to discuss the an interview to discuss the

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Hindmarshes' and other cases he Hindmarshes' and other cases he

:05:44.:05:45.

politely declined. Instead, we politely declined. Instead, we

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politely declined. Instead, we began to correspond via Bankruptcy

:05:46.:05:49.

began to correspond via Bankruptcy began to correspond via Bankruptcy

:05:49.:05:50.

Protection Fund's lawyers. And not Protection Fund's lawyers. And not

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Protection Fund's lawyers. And not just any lawyers. Nope, Mr Holmes

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just any lawyers. Nope, Mr Holmes just any lawyers. Nope, Mr Holmes

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instructed Mishcon De Reya, a instructed Mishcon De Reya, a

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prestigious firm of London prestigious firm of London

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solicitors with a fearsome solicitors with a fearsome

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solicitors with a fearsome reputation. So, how could Mr Holmes

:06:02.:06:03.

reputation. So, how could Mr Holmes reputation. So, how could Mr Holmes

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justify a �47,000 loan spiralling justify a �47,000 loan spiralling

:06:04.:06:11.

justify a �47,000 loan spiralling into a �400,000 plus debt? Well,

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into a �400,000 plus debt? Well, into a �400,000 plus debt? Well,

:06:12.:06:12.

into a �400,000 plus debt? Well, when we asked they came back with

:06:12.:06:22.
:06:22.:06:24.

Well maybe they hadn't read their Well maybe they hadn't read their

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Well maybe they hadn't read their Well maybe they hadn't read their

:06:25.:06:26.

own paperwork. You see, in April of own paperwork. You see, in April of

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own paperwork. You see, in April of last year, Consolidated Finance Ltd

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last year, Consolidated Finance Ltd last year, Consolidated Finance Ltd

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lodged this document in court lodged this document in court

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lodged this document in court chasing the Hindmarshes for the sum

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chasing the Hindmarshes for the sum of �326,309.64... Excluding legal

:06:37.:06:45.

of �326,309.64... Excluding legal of �326,309.64... Excluding legal

:06:45.:06:46.

costs. And the biggest change all costs. And the biggest change all

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costs. And the biggest change all costs. And the biggest change all

:06:48.:06:49.

that time. I don't think they know that time. I don't think they know

:06:50.:06:51.

themselves. They are getting themselves. They are getting

:06:51.:06:52.

themselves. They are getting numbers, mixing them up, and saying,

:06:52.:06:54.

numbers, mixing them up, and saying, numbers, mixing them up, and saying,

:06:54.:06:55.

numbers, mixing them up, and saying, that is how much we will ask for

:06:55.:06:58.

that is how much we will ask for that is how much we will ask for

:06:58.:07:00.

that is how much we will ask for this time. It is 350, for 20, for

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this time. It is 350, for 20, for this time. It is 350, for 20, for

:07:01.:07:03.

this time. It is 350, for 20, for 50. I don't know. I had her crying

:07:03.:07:04.

50. I don't know. I had her crying 50. I don't know. I had her crying

:07:04.:07:05.

50. I don't know. I had her crying on the telephone, mum, what am I

:07:05.:07:07.

on the telephone, mum, what am I on the telephone, mum, what am I

:07:07.:07:08.

on the telephone, mum, what am I going to do? It breaks my heart

:07:08.:07:09.

going to do? It breaks my heart going to do? It breaks my heart

:07:09.:07:11.

because she works so hard. She because she works so hard. She

:07:11.:07:13.

because she works so hard. She keeps a lovely home. She looks

:07:13.:07:17.

keeps a lovely home. She looks keeps a lovely home. She looks

:07:17.:07:19.

after Brad. It breaks my heart. after Brad. It breaks my heart.

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after Brad. It breaks my heart. What's it been like, living this

:07:20.:07:22.

What's it been like, living this What's it been like, living this

:07:22.:07:24.

last six years? It has been last six years? It has been

:07:24.:07:26.

last six years? It has been horrible, it has been an absolute

:07:26.:07:27.

horrible, it has been an absolute horrible, it has been an absolute

:07:27.:07:28.

nightmare. I've got a disabled nightmare. I've got a disabled

:07:28.:07:29.

nightmare. I've got a disabled nightmare. I've got a disabled

:07:29.:07:30.

child, we've got to be strong for child, we've got to be strong for

:07:30.:07:31.

child, we've got to be strong for child, we've got to be strong for

:07:31.:07:33.

him. I work long hours, he works him. I work long hours, he works

:07:33.:07:35.

him. I work long hours, he works him. I work long hours, he works

:07:35.:07:36.

long hours. And we pay our way as long hours. And we pay our way as

:07:36.:07:37.

long hours. And we pay our way as we go. Consolidated Finance Ltd,

:07:37.:07:38.

we go. Consolidated Finance Ltd, sister firm to Bankruptcy

:07:38.:07:39.

sister firm to Bankruptcy sister firm to Bankruptcy

:07:39.:07:40.

Protection Fund, are still trying Protection Fund, are still trying

:07:40.:07:40.

Protection Fund, are still trying to repossess the Hindmarshes' home

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to repossess the Hindmarshes' home to repossess the Hindmarshes' home

:07:41.:07:42.

even after all these years. So, even after all these years. So,

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even after all these years. So, even after all these years. So,

:07:43.:07:45.

what exactly had they signed up to? what exactly had they signed up to?

:07:45.:07:46.

what exactly had they signed up to? what exactly had they signed up to?

:07:46.:07:47.

To find out, I took the contract to To find out, I took the contract to

:07:47.:07:52.

To find out, I took the contract to an insolvency lawyer. It took

:07:52.:07:53.

an insolvency lawyer. It took an insolvency lawyer. It took

:07:53.:07:54.

an insolvency lawyer. It took several hours to go through it so

:07:54.:07:55.

several hours to go through it so several hours to go through it so

:07:55.:07:56.

several hours to go through it so for a lay person it would have

:07:56.:07:57.

for a lay person it would have for a lay person it would have

:07:57.:07:58.

for a lay person it would have taken them an awfully long time to

:07:58.:07:59.

taken them an awfully long time to taken them an awfully long time to

:07:59.:08:00.

taken them an awfully long time to figure out what is going on and

:08:00.:08:01.

figure out what is going on and figure out what is going on and

:08:01.:08:01.

probably they wouldn't have managed probably they wouldn't have managed

:08:01.:08:04.

probably they wouldn't have managed probably they wouldn't have managed

:08:04.:08:05.

it at all. So, what did they signed, it at all. So, what did they signed,

:08:05.:08:07.

it at all. So, what did they signed, in plain English? They signed a

:08:07.:08:09.

in plain English? They signed a contract which apparently for

:08:09.:08:10.

contract which apparently for contract which apparently for

:08:10.:08:11.

contract which apparently for �5,000 was meant to get them out of

:08:11.:08:13.

�5,000 was meant to get them out of �5,000 was meant to get them out of

:08:13.:08:13.

the bankruptcy. What would happen the bankruptcy. What would happen

:08:13.:08:15.

the bankruptcy. What would happen would be the bankruptcy protection

:08:15.:08:16.

would be the bankruptcy protection would be the bankruptcy protection

:08:16.:08:18.

fund would apply for an annulment fund would apply for an annulment

:08:18.:08:20.

fund would apply for an annulment of the bankruptcy. That means the

:08:20.:08:20.

of the bankruptcy. That means the of the bankruptcy. That means the

:08:20.:08:21.

bankruptcy order gets taken away bankruptcy order gets taken away

:08:21.:08:23.

bankruptcy order gets taken away bankruptcy order gets taken away

:08:23.:08:24.

completely as if it has never been completely as if it has never been

:08:24.:08:25.

completely as if it has never been made in the first place. Basically,

:08:25.:08:26.

made in the first place. Basically, made in the first place. Basically,

:08:26.:08:28.

made in the first place. Basically, all the debts are paid off and they

:08:28.:08:29.

all the debts are paid off and they all the debts are paid off and they

:08:29.:08:30.

all the debts are paid off and they are free. It is a very attractive

:08:30.:08:33.

are free. It is a very attractive are free. It is a very attractive

:08:33.:08:34.

proposition. But as you dig deeper proposition. But as you dig deeper

:08:34.:08:35.

proposition. But as you dig deeper into the contract and to the

:08:35.:08:36.

into the contract and to the into the contract and to the

:08:36.:08:37.

clauses, what is actually had no clauses, what is actually had no

:08:37.:08:40.

clauses, what is actually had no way? What did you find?

:08:40.:08:41.

way? What did you find? way? What did you find?

:08:41.:08:43.

expectation there would be a charge expectation there would be a charge

:08:43.:08:44.

expectation there would be a charge for the property granted to

:08:44.:08:46.

for the property granted to for the property granted to

:08:46.:08:48.

somebody else, actually, not the somebody else, actually, not the

:08:48.:08:49.

bankruptcy protection from. They bankruptcy protection from. They

:08:49.:08:50.

bankruptcy protection from. They thought they were dealing with one

:08:50.:08:51.

thought they were dealing with one thought they were dealing with one

:08:51.:08:53.

company and actually another one company and actually another one

:08:53.:08:54.

company and actually another one was involved. They thought they

:08:54.:08:56.

was involved. They thought they was involved. They thought they

:08:56.:08:57.

were getting long-term finance and were getting long-term finance and

:08:57.:08:58.

were getting long-term finance and were getting long-term finance and

:08:58.:08:59.

when you look at what they were when you look at what they were

:08:59.:09:00.

when you look at what they were getting, they were getting finance

:09:00.:09:01.

getting, they were getting finance getting, they were getting finance

:09:01.:09:02.

for three months, so a bridging for three months, so a bridging

:09:02.:09:04.

for three months, so a bridging for three months, so a bridging

:09:04.:09:05.

loan. It looked as though they were loan. It looked as though they were

:09:05.:09:08.

loan. It looked as though they were paying 3% interest but after 18

:09:08.:09:09.

paying 3% interest but after 18 paying 3% interest but after 18

:09:09.:09:12.

months, they found their debt had months, they found their debt had

:09:12.:09:13.

months, they found their debt had been doubled. In 2010, three years

:09:13.:09:15.

been doubled. In 2010, three years been doubled. In 2010, three years

:09:15.:09:15.

been doubled. In 2010, three years after they had signed up for the

:09:15.:09:17.

after they had signed up for the after they had signed up for the

:09:17.:09:19.

deal, both firms came under deal, both firms came under

:09:19.:09:29.
:09:29.:09:33.

sustained criticism from the Office of Fair Trading. Bankruptcy

:09:33.:09:34.

of Fair Trading. Bankruptcy Protection Fund and Consolidated

:09:34.:09:35.

Protection Fund and Consolidated Protection Fund and Consolidated

:09:35.:09:36.

Finance Ltd were warned they must Finance Ltd were warned they must

:09:36.:09:37.

Finance Ltd were warned they must change their practices as they had

:09:37.:09:38.

change their practices as they had change their practices as they had

:09:38.:09:39.

not been transparent in their not been transparent in their

:09:39.:09:40.

not been transparent in their dealings with customers and failed

:09:40.:09:41.

dealings with customers and failed dealings with customers and failed

:09:41.:09:41.

to adequately outline the risks to adequately outline the risks

:09:42.:09:42.

to adequately outline the risks involved. Now, in their defence

:09:42.:09:43.

involved. Now, in their defence involved. Now, in their defence

:09:43.:09:44.

both the Bankruptcy Protection Fund both the Bankruptcy Protection Fund

:09:44.:09:45.

and their sister company and their sister company

:09:45.:09:46.

Consolidated Finance claim they've Consolidated Finance claim they've

:09:46.:09:47.

addressed the problems identified addressed the problems identified

:09:47.:09:48.

addressed the problems identified addressed the problems identified

:09:48.:09:49.

by the OFT back in 2010. But that by the OFT back in 2010. But that

:09:49.:09:50.

by the OFT back in 2010. But that hasn't stopped them from continuing

:09:50.:09:51.

hasn't stopped them from continuing hasn't stopped them from continuing

:09:51.:09:52.

to chase Mandy and Steve for to chase Mandy and Steve for

:09:52.:09:53.

to chase Mandy and Steve for repossession of their home and in

:09:53.:09:54.

repossession of their home and in repossession of their home and in

:09:54.:09:55.

doing so getting themselves into doing so getting themselves into

:09:55.:09:56.

doing so getting themselves into doing so getting themselves into

:09:56.:09:56.

hot water with a judge when it was hot water with a judge when it was

:09:57.:09:57.

discovered the Hindmarshes' discovered the Hindmarshes'

:09:57.:09:58.

discovered the Hindmarshes' signatures on a crucial document

:09:58.:10:08.
:10:08.:10:09.

signatures on a crucial document signatures on a crucial document

:10:09.:10:09.

had been falsely witnessed. Witness had been falsely witnessed. Witness

:10:09.:10:11.

had been falsely witnessed. Witness signatures had not been witnessed

:10:11.:10:13.

signatures had not been witnessed signatures had not been witnessed

:10:13.:10:14.

signatures had not been witnessed at all. They had tried to put

:10:14.:10:15.

at all. They had tried to put at all. They had tried to put

:10:15.:10:18.

Rogers on the property. They wanted Rogers on the property. They wanted

:10:18.:10:19.

Rogers on the property. They wanted Rogers on the property. They wanted

:10:19.:10:19.

the house. They had no idea of the house. They had no idea of

:10:20.:10:21.

the house. They had no idea of getting a mortgage. They didn't

:10:21.:10:21.

getting a mortgage. They didn't getting a mortgage. They didn't

:10:21.:10:23.

know what they were doing. Instead know what they were doing. Instead

:10:23.:10:24.

know what they were doing. Instead of winning the case against the

:10:24.:10:25.

of winning the case against the Hindmarshes, Consolidated Finance

:10:25.:10:26.

Hindmarshes, Consolidated Finance Hindmarshes, Consolidated Finance

:10:26.:10:27.

Limited were criticised for slap- Limited were criticised for slap-

:10:27.:10:28.

Limited were criticised for slap- dash litigation. The case was

:10:28.:10:29.

dash litigation. The case was dash litigation. The case was

:10:29.:10:30.

thrown out and the couple were thrown out and the couple were

:10:30.:10:32.

thrown out and the couple were awarded legal costs. When we asked

:10:32.:10:33.

awarded legal costs. When we asked Chris Holmes, Director of

:10:33.:10:34.

Chris Holmes, Director of Consolidated Finance Limited and

:10:34.:10:35.

Consolidated Finance Limited and Bankruptcy Protection Fund about

:10:35.:10:36.

Bankruptcy Protection Fund about Bankruptcy Protection Fund about

:10:36.:10:37.

Bankruptcy Protection Fund about this, via his lawyers, he tried to

:10:37.:10:47.
:10:47.:10:51.

this, via his lawyers, he tried to Mr Holmes' right hand man is

:10:51.:10:52.

Mr Holmes' right hand man is Mr Holmes' right hand man is

:10:52.:10:53.

Michael Seward, general manager of Michael Seward, general manager of

:10:53.:10:53.

Michael Seward, general manager of both Bankruptcy Protection Fund and

:10:53.:10:57.

both Bankruptcy Protection Fund and both Bankruptcy Protection Fund and

:10:57.:10:58.

Consolidated Finance. It was Mr Consolidated Finance. It was Mr

:10:58.:10:59.

Consolidated Finance. It was Mr Seward who gave evidence against

:10:59.:11:00.

Seward who gave evidence against Seward who gave evidence against

:11:00.:11:00.

the Hindmarshes at County Court, the Hindmarshes at County Court,

:11:00.:11:01.

the Hindmarshes at County Court, the Hindmarshes at County Court,

:11:01.:11:02.

and when it comes to appearing in and when it comes to appearing in

:11:02.:11:03.

and when it comes to appearing in court, Mr Seward's got quite a

:11:03.:11:07.

court, Mr Seward's got quite a court, Mr Seward's got quite a

:11:07.:11:08.

record. You see, here's his record. You see, here's his

:11:08.:11:08.

record. You see, here's his Companies House Director form for

:11:08.:11:09.

Companies House Director form for Companies House Director form for

:11:09.:11:10.

Companies House Director form for 2005, where he lists himself as a

:11:10.:11:16.

2005, where he lists himself as a 2005, where he lists himself as a

:11:16.:11:17.

solicitor. Problem is, in 1999 solicitor. Problem is, in 1999

:11:17.:11:18.

solicitor. Problem is, in 1999 solicitor. Problem is, in 1999

:11:18.:11:18.

Michael Seward was struck off as a Michael Seward was struck off as a

:11:19.:11:19.

Michael Seward was struck off as a solicitor and sent to prison for

:11:20.:11:21.

solicitor and sent to prison for solicitor and sent to prison for

:11:21.:11:29.

six months for false accounting. six months for false accounting.

:11:29.:11:31.

six months for false accounting. six months for false accounting.

:11:31.:11:31.

Shouldn't be trusted at all. He is Shouldn't be trusted at all. He is

:11:31.:11:32.

Shouldn't be trusted at all. He is Shouldn't be trusted at all. He is

:11:33.:11:33.

a dishonest man. Keith Freer is a a dishonest man. Keith Freer is a

:11:33.:11:34.

a dishonest man. Keith Freer is a solicitor. Back in 1997, he was

:11:34.:11:35.

solicitor. Back in 1997, he was solicitor. Back in 1997, he was

:11:35.:11:36.

solicitor. Back in 1997, he was asked by The Law Society to take

:11:36.:11:37.

asked by The Law Society to take over Michael Seward's practice,

:11:37.:11:38.

over Michael Seward's practice, over Michael Seward's practice,

:11:38.:11:45.

upon which he discovered serious upon which he discovered serious

:11:45.:11:47.

upon which he discovered serious problems. What were those problems?

:11:47.:11:49.

problems. What were those problems? problems. What were those problems?

:11:49.:11:51.

Theft from client accounts, mainly Theft from client accounts, mainly

:11:51.:11:51.

Theft from client accounts, mainly probates where the accounts had

:11:52.:11:53.

probates where the accounts had probates where the accounts had

:11:53.:11:54.

probates where the accounts had been stated, so a cheque would come

:11:54.:11:56.

been stated, so a cheque would come been stated, so a cheque would come

:11:56.:11:57.

been stated, so a cheque would come in for �18,000, say, and he would

:11:57.:11:59.

in for �18,000, say, and he would in for �18,000, say, and he would

:11:59.:12:03.

record a payment of �10,000. Fraud? record a payment of �10,000. Fraud?

:12:03.:12:04.

record a payment of �10,000. Fraud? Effectively. What was the --

:12:04.:12:08.

Effectively. What was the -- convicted of? Misappropriation.So,

:12:08.:12:09.

convicted of? Misappropriation.So, convicted of? Misappropriation.So,

:12:09.:12:10.

we have two central questions. Why we have two central questions. Why

:12:10.:12:11.

we have two central questions. Why are the Hindmarsh family still

:12:11.:12:12.

are the Hindmarsh family still are the Hindmarsh family still

:12:12.:12:13.

being chased for an ever growing being chased for an ever growing

:12:13.:12:14.

being chased for an ever growing debt? And what was Michael Seward

:12:14.:12:15.

debt? And what was Michael Seward debt? And what was Michael Seward

:12:15.:12:16.

doing passing himself off as a doing passing himself off as a

:12:16.:12:21.

solicitor on Companies House solicitor on Companies House

:12:21.:12:22.

solicitor on Companies House documentation? After all, to do so

:12:22.:12:23.

documentation? After all, to do so is a criminal offence,

:12:23.:12:24.

is a criminal offence, misrepresentation under section 21

:12:24.:12:29.

misrepresentation under section 21 misrepresentation under section 21

:12:29.:12:30.

of The Solicitors' Act. We put of The Solicitors' Act. We put

:12:30.:12:31.

of The Solicitors' Act. We put these two questions to Mr Holmes,

:12:31.:12:32.

these two questions to Mr Holmes, these two questions to Mr Holmes,

:12:32.:12:33.

and through his lawyers, here's and through his lawyers, here's

:12:33.:12:39.

and through his lawyers, here's Firstly, yes they are still chasing

:12:39.:12:40.

Firstly, yes they are still chasing Firstly, yes they are still chasing

:12:40.:12:41.

the Hindmarsh family for the debt the Hindmarsh family for the debt

:12:41.:12:42.

the Hindmarsh family for the debt but they recognise that they will

:12:42.:12:43.

but they recognise that they will but they recognise that they will

:12:43.:12:44.

but they recognise that they will not be able to recover all of what

:12:44.:12:45.

not be able to recover all of what not be able to recover all of what

:12:45.:12:55.
:12:55.:13:01.

This afternoon, the lawyers went This afternoon, the lawyers went

:13:01.:13:02.

This afternoon, the lawyers went further by insisting the family

:13:02.:13:04.

further by insisting the family further by insisting the family

:13:04.:13:05.

never intended to get a remortgage never intended to get a remortgage

:13:05.:13:07.

never intended to get a remortgage stating instead they wanted to sell

:13:07.:13:09.

stating instead they wanted to sell stating instead they wanted to sell

:13:09.:13:10.

their home. Finally, what of their home. Finally, what of

:13:10.:13:20.
:13:20.:13:28.

Which, as excuses go, we find a Which, as excuses go, we find a

:13:28.:13:30.

Which, as excuses go, we find a Which, as excuses go, we find a

:13:30.:13:31.

little hard to swallow. You see, we little hard to swallow. You see, we

:13:31.:13:32.

little hard to swallow. You see, we found four Companies House forms

:13:32.:13:33.

found four Companies House forms found four Companies House forms

:13:33.:13:33.

stating Mr Seward's profession as a stating Mr Seward's profession as a

:13:33.:13:35.

stating Mr Seward's profession as a stating Mr Seward's profession as a

:13:35.:13:35.

solicitor and at the bottom of each solicitor and at the bottom of each

:13:35.:13:43.

solicitor and at the bottom of each form is his signature. In November,

:13:43.:13:44.

form is his signature. In November, form is his signature. In November,

:13:44.:13:45.

the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd

:13:45.:13:45.

the Bankruptcy Protection Fund Ltd and Consolidated Finance Ltd tried

:13:46.:13:46.

and Consolidated Finance Ltd tried and Consolidated Finance Ltd tried

:13:46.:13:47.

and Consolidated Finance Ltd tried again to take Mandy to court for

:13:47.:13:53.

again to take Mandy to court for again to take Mandy to court for

:13:53.:13:54.

her home. Days before proceedings her home. Days before proceedings

:13:54.:13:55.

her home. Days before proceedings were to start, they pulled out.So

:13:55.:13:56.

were to start, they pulled out.So were to start, they pulled out.So

:13:56.:13:57.

they thought they were dealing with they thought they were dealing with

:13:57.:13:58.

they thought they were dealing with one company and actually another

:13:58.:14:03.

one company and actually another one company and actually another

:14:03.:14:05.

one company and actually another was involved. With a few hours to

:14:05.:14:06.

was involved. With a few hours to was involved. With a few hours to

:14:06.:14:07.

go, Christopher Holmes has been in go, Christopher Holmes has been in

:14:07.:14:08.

go, Christopher Holmes has been in go, Christopher Holmes has been in

:14:08.:14:09.

touch saying he would like now to touch saying he would like now to

:14:09.:14:11.

touch saying he would like now to take part in our programme. In

:14:11.:14:12.

take part in our programme. In take part in our programme. In

:14:12.:14:14.

take part in our programme. In practical terms, it is far too late.

:14:14.:14:15.

practical terms, it is far too late. practical terms, it is far too late.

:14:15.:14:16.

practical terms, it is far too late. As for Mandy, she knows what she

:14:16.:14:19.

As for Mandy, she knows what she As for Mandy, she knows what she

:14:19.:14:20.

As for Mandy, she knows what she wants. I want them to rot in hell.

:14:20.:14:21.

wants. I want them to rot in hell. wants. I want them to rot in hell.

:14:21.:14:26.

wants. I want them to rot in hell. wants. I want them to rot in hell.

:14:26.:14:27.

I want them to go away. And I want I want them to go away. And I want

:14:27.:14:28.

I want them to go away. And I want I want them to go away. And I want

:14:28.:14:29.

them to live an unhappy life. Might them to live an unhappy life. Might

:14:29.:14:34.

them to live an unhappy life. Might they have done for me.

:14:35.:14:39.

they have done for me. Glenn Campbell reporting.

:14:39.:14:41.

Glenn Campbell reporting. Glenn Campbell reporting.

:14:41.:14:47.

Glenn Campbell reporting. Coming up on Inside Out: I decided

:14:47.:14:48.

Coming up on Inside Out: I decided Coming up on Inside Out: I decided

:14:48.:14:52.

Coming up on Inside Out: I decided I didn't want to live through it.

:14:52.:14:53.

I didn't want to live through it. I didn't want to live through it.

:14:53.:14:54.

I didn't want to live through it. thought I would stand there and get

:14:54.:14:58.

thought I would stand there and get thought I would stand there and get

:14:58.:14:59.

it over with. The children serving it over with. The children serving

:14:59.:15:00.

it over with. The children serving a hidden sentence. Emma Thomas has

:15:00.:15:01.

a hidden sentence. Emma Thomas has a hidden sentence. Emma Thomas has

:15:01.:15:02.

been speaking to families who have been speaking to families who have

:15:02.:15:03.

been speaking to families who have been separated from their fathers

:15:03.:15:04.

been separated from their fathers been separated from their fathers

:15:04.:15:14.
:15:14.:15:19.

through no fault of their own. through no fault of their own.

:15:19.:15:20.

through no fault of their own. through no fault of their own.

:15:20.:15:21.

The red train set off at speed... The red train set off at speed...

:15:21.:15:24.

The red train set off at speed... Jayden is three. It's bedtime and

:15:24.:15:25.

Jayden is three. It's bedtime and Jayden is three. It's bedtime and

:15:25.:15:30.

his daddy's telling a story. his daddy's telling a story.

:15:30.:15:31.

his daddy's telling a story. father is away and he's listening

:15:31.:15:32.

father is away and he's listening father is away and he's listening

:15:32.:15:39.

father is away and he's listening to a recording of his voice.

:15:39.:15:40.

to a recording of his voice. to a recording of his voice.

:15:40.:15:45.

to a recording of his voice. was that on the tape? A daddy.Do

:15:45.:15:47.

was that on the tape? A daddy.Do was that on the tape? A daddy.Do

:15:47.:15:51.

was that on the tape? A daddy.Do was that on the tape? A daddy.Do

:15:51.:15:51.

you Mr de? Yes. He is at work.-- you Mr de? Yes. He is at work.--

:15:52.:15:54.

you Mr de? Yes. He is at work.-- you Mr de? Yes. He is at work.--

:15:54.:15:55.

do you miss Daddy? He cannot come do you miss Daddy? He cannot come

:15:55.:15:56.

do you miss Daddy? He cannot come home. But Jayden's father isn't at

:15:56.:15:57.

home. But Jayden's father isn't at home. But Jayden's father isn't at

:15:57.:15:58.

home. But Jayden's father isn't at work. In fact, he's going to be

:15:58.:15:59.

work. In fact, he's going to be work. In fact, he's going to be

:15:59.:16:00.

work. In fact, he's going to be away for many years. As many as 10

:16:00.:16:01.

away for many years. As many as 10 away for many years. As many as 10

:16:01.:16:02.

away for many years. As many as 10 years if he serves all his sentence.

:16:02.:16:03.

years if he serves all his sentence. years if he serves all his sentence.

:16:03.:16:04.

You see, Jayden's father is in You see, Jayden's father is in

:16:04.:16:05.

You see, Jayden's father is in prison, and this bedtime story is

:16:05.:16:06.

prison, and this bedtime story is prison, and this bedtime story is

:16:06.:16:07.

prison, and this bedtime story is just one of a number of initiatives

:16:07.:16:08.

just one of a number of initiatives just one of a number of initiatives

:16:08.:16:08.

where the children of prisoner's where the children of prisoner's

:16:08.:16:09.

where the children of prisoner's are being encouraged to keep

:16:09.:16:10.

are being encouraged to keep parenting, even though they're

:16:10.:16:13.

parenting, even though they're parenting, even though they're

:16:13.:16:15.

behind bars. This is Lydia Burton, behind bars. This is Lydia Burton,

:16:15.:16:16.

behind bars. This is Lydia Burton, Jayden's mother. Last year, her

:16:16.:16:18.

Jayden's mother. Last year, her Jayden's mother. Last year, her

:16:18.:16:19.

world crumbled. When her husband world crumbled. When her husband

:16:19.:16:21.

world crumbled. When her husband world crumbled. When her husband

:16:21.:16:22.

Dean was sent to prison. He was Dean was sent to prison. He was

:16:22.:16:23.

Dean was sent to prison. He was found guilty of conspiring to

:16:23.:16:24.

found guilty of conspiring to found guilty of conspiring to

:16:24.:16:25.

import drugs after they were found import drugs after they were found

:16:25.:16:26.

import drugs after they were found import drugs after they were found

:16:26.:16:33.

on one of his lorries in Dover. on one of his lorries in Dover.

:16:33.:16:35.

on one of his lorries in Dover. on one of his lorries in Dover.

:16:35.:16:36.

far as he is concerned, Daddy is at far as he is concerned, Daddy is at

:16:36.:16:38.

far as he is concerned, Daddy is at far as he is concerned, Daddy is at

:16:38.:16:38.

work, we go and see daddy because work, we go and see daddy because

:16:38.:16:40.

work, we go and see daddy because work, we go and see daddy because

:16:40.:16:41.

he has to stay at work and he he has to stay at work and he

:16:41.:16:43.

he has to stay at work and he cannot come home. That impact on

:16:43.:16:46.

cannot come home. That impact on cannot come home. That impact on

:16:46.:16:47.

cannot come home. That impact on their lives is huge. What Lydia is

:16:47.:16:48.

their lives is huge. What Lydia is their lives is huge. What Lydia is

:16:48.:16:49.

focusing on is improving the amount focusing on is improving the amount

:16:49.:16:50.

focusing on is improving the amount of family visits. Prisoners like

:16:50.:16:54.

of family visits. Prisoners like of family visits. Prisoners like

:16:54.:16:56.

her husband are allowed time with her husband are allowed time with

:16:56.:17:01.

her husband are allowed time with their children whilst locked away.

:17:01.:17:03.

their children whilst locked away. their children whilst locked away.

:17:03.:17:03.

their children whilst locked away. Thank you for coming to this first

:17:04.:17:08.

Thank you for coming to this first Thank you for coming to this first

:17:08.:17:10.

meeting. We are here for the meeting. We are here for the

:17:10.:17:11.

meeting. We are here for the children. And they're right to have

:17:11.:17:12.

children. And they're right to have children. And they're right to have

:17:12.:17:17.

a relationship with their parents. a relationship with their parents.

:17:17.:17:17.

a relationship with their parents. a relationship with their parents.

:17:17.:17:19.

She's one of the number of voices She's one of the number of voices

:17:19.:17:20.

She's one of the number of voices that think that time with parents

:17:20.:17:24.

that think that time with parents that think that time with parents

:17:24.:17:24.

is key. Angus Mulready-Jones works is key. Angus Mulready-Jones works

:17:24.:17:25.

is key. Angus Mulready-Jones works for a charity campaigning for

:17:25.:17:26.

for a charity campaigning for better contact between prisoners

:17:26.:17:29.

better contact between prisoners better contact between prisoners

:17:29.:17:30.

and their families. We know that and their families. We know that

:17:30.:17:31.

parental imprisonment causes poorer parental imprisonment causes poorer

:17:31.:17:32.

parental imprisonment causes poorer outcomes for children and can lead

:17:32.:17:35.

outcomes for children and can lead to inter-generational offending. It

:17:35.:17:38.

to inter-generational offending. It to inter-generational offending. It

:17:38.:17:40.

to inter-generational offending. It is much more for society -- much

:17:40.:17:42.

is much more for society -- much is much more for society -- much

:17:42.:17:43.

more disruptive for society when more disruptive for society when

:17:43.:17:48.

more disruptive for society when more disruptive for society when

:17:48.:17:49.

parents are away. Some of you may parents are away. Some of you may

:17:49.:17:50.

parents are away. Some of you may parents are away. Some of you may

:17:50.:17:50.

think they have done the crime so think they have done the crime so

:17:50.:17:51.

think they have done the crime so think they have done the crime so

:17:51.:17:53.

they have to do that time and just they have to do that time and just

:17:53.:17:53.

they have to do that time and just they have to do that time and just

:17:53.:17:55.

as his justice and that few is fair. as his justice and that few is fair.

:17:55.:17:56.

as his justice and that few is fair. as his justice and that few is fair.

:17:56.:17:56.

But when it comes to serving a But when it comes to serving a

:17:56.:17:57.

But when it comes to serving a sentence, how much family time a

:17:58.:17:58.

sentence, how much family time a sentence, how much family time a

:17:58.:17:59.

prisoner gets is a controversial prisoner gets is a controversial

:17:59.:18:00.

prisoner gets is a controversial prisoner gets is a controversial

:18:00.:18:08.

issue and gets to heart of how we But according to some experts

:18:08.:18:09.

But according to some experts letting prisoners have constructive

:18:09.:18:10.

letting prisoners have constructive letting prisoners have constructive

:18:10.:18:11.

and frequent contact with their and frequent contact with their

:18:11.:18:11.

and frequent contact with their children can reduce re-offending by

:18:11.:18:12.

children can reduce re-offending by children can reduce re-offending by

:18:12.:18:22.
:18:22.:18:26.

children can reduce re-offending by as much as 39 %. Prisoners who have

:18:26.:18:27.

as much as 39 %. Prisoners who have as much as 39 %. Prisoners who have

:18:27.:18:28.

or maintain contact with their or maintain contact with their

:18:28.:18:29.

or maintain contact with their or maintain contact with their

:18:29.:18:30.

families are far more likely to have families are far more likely to have

:18:30.:18:31.

families are far more likely to have somewhere to live when they are

:18:31.:18:32.

somewhere to live when they are somewhere to live when they are

:18:32.:18:33.

released from prison and they are released from prison and they are

:18:33.:18:34.

released from prison and they are released from prison and they are

:18:34.:18:34.

far more likely to have a potential far more likely to have a potential

:18:34.:18:35.

far more likely to have a potential far more likely to have a potential

:18:35.:18:36.

job, or actually a job and so they job, or actually a job and so they

:18:36.:18:37.

job, or actually a job and so they job, or actually a job and so they

:18:37.:18:38.

also have. I mean clearly they will also have. I mean clearly they will

:18:38.:18:39.

also have. I mean clearly they will have the support of their families

:18:39.:18:40.

have the support of their families for seeking employment and

:18:40.:18:41.

for seeking employment and for seeking employment and

:18:41.:18:42.

resettling back into the community, resettling back into the community,

:18:42.:18:43.

resettling back into the community, resettling back into the community,

:18:43.:18:44.

so all of these things tie in very so all of these things tie in very

:18:44.:18:45.

so all of these things tie in very nicely to the notions of

:18:45.:18:46.

nicely to the notions of nicely to the notions of

:18:46.:18:46.

rehabilitation and the fact that rehabilitation and the fact that

:18:46.:18:47.

rehabilitation and the fact that people don?t reoffend when they

:18:47.:18:48.

people don?t reoffend when they people don?t reoffend when they

:18:48.:18:49.

leave prison. There is an argument leave prison. There is an argument

:18:49.:18:50.

leave prison. There is an argument isn?t there that actually they are

:18:50.:18:51.

isn?t there that actually they are isn?t there that actually they are

:18:51.:18:52.

isn?t there that actually they are in jail to be punished. I think

:18:52.:18:53.

in jail to be punished. I think in jail to be punished. I think

:18:53.:18:54.

in jail to be punished. I think there is an argument that people in

:18:54.:18:55.

there is an argument that people in there is an argument that people in

:18:55.:18:56.

there is an argument that people in jail are there to be punished, they

:18:56.:18:56.

jail are there to be punished, they jail are there to be punished, they

:18:57.:18:58.

are also there to be rehabilitated are also there to be rehabilitated

:18:58.:18:58.

are also there to be rehabilitated are also there to be rehabilitated

:18:58.:18:59.

and what I think society wants is and what I think society wants is

:18:59.:19:00.

and what I think society wants is less crime, they don?t want people

:19:00.:19:01.

less crime, they don?t want people being punished unnecessarily, the

:19:01.:19:02.

being punished unnecessarily, the being punished unnecessarily, the

:19:02.:19:03.

being punished unnecessarily, the other thing to say is that the

:19:03.:19:04.

other thing to say is that the 200,000 children who experience

:19:04.:19:05.

200,000 children who experience parental imprisonment every year

:19:05.:19:11.

parental imprisonment every year parental imprisonment every year

:19:11.:19:11.

haven?t done anything wrong. I?ve haven?t done anything wrong. I?ve

:19:11.:19:12.

haven?t done anything wrong. I?ve haven?t done anything wrong. I?ve

:19:12.:19:13.

come to meet a man who has first come to meet a man who has first

:19:13.:19:14.

come to meet a man who has first hand experience of parenting behind

:19:14.:19:16.

hand experience of parenting behind hand experience of parenting behind

:19:16.:19:17.

hand experience of parenting behind bars. He served time in Lewes for

:19:17.:19:26.

bars. He served time in Lewes for bars. He served time in Lewes for

:19:26.:19:28.

grevious bodily harm. It meant he grevious bodily harm. It meant he

:19:28.:19:29.

grevious bodily harm. It meant he was separated from his daughter and

:19:29.:19:32.

was separated from his daughter and was separated from his daughter and

:19:32.:19:33.

was separated from his daughter and he could only have a two visits each

:19:34.:19:36.

he could only have a two visits each he could only have a two visits each

:19:36.:19:37.

he could only have a two visits each month. You are not allowed of your

:19:37.:19:39.

month. You are not allowed of your month. You are not allowed of your

:19:39.:19:42.

month. You are not allowed of your seat. It is very hard on myself as

:19:42.:19:43.

seat. It is very hard on myself as seat. It is very hard on myself as

:19:43.:19:43.

seat. It is very hard on myself as the father, but it must have been

:19:43.:19:44.

the father, but it must have been the father, but it must have been

:19:44.:19:51.

the father, but it must have been harder for my daughter as well.

:19:52.:19:53.

harder for my daughter as well. harder for my daughter as well.

:19:53.:19:53.

prison should be punishment isn?t prison should be punishment isn?t

:19:53.:19:54.

prison should be punishment isn?t prison should be punishment isn?t

:19:54.:19:55.

it? All right, punish me, but don?t it? All right, punish me, but don?t

:19:55.:19:56.

it? All right, punish me, but don?t punish your family, your loved ones,

:19:56.:19:57.

punish your family, your loved ones, punish your family, your loved ones,

:19:57.:19:58.

punish your family, your loved ones, I?m the one that?s done wrong, so

:19:58.:19:59.

I?m the one that?s done wrong, so I?m the one that?s done wrong, so

:19:59.:20:00.

I?m the one that?s done wrong, so why punish the other ones? Here on

:20:00.:20:01.

why punish the other ones? Here on why punish the other ones? Here on

:20:01.:20:01.

why punish the other ones? Here on the Isle of Sheppey, where there are

:20:01.:20:02.

the Isle of Sheppey, where there are the Isle of Sheppey, where there are

:20:02.:20:03.

three prisons, a support network is three prisons, a support network is

:20:03.:20:04.

three prisons, a support network is growing for the families left to

:20:04.:20:05.

growing for the families left to growing for the families left to

:20:05.:20:06.

growing for the families left to cope on the outside while Dad?s is

:20:06.:20:15.

cope on the outside while Dad?s is cope on the outside while Dad?s is

:20:15.:20:16.

locked away. Pauline Neal is locked away. Pauline Neal is

:20:16.:20:26.
:20:26.:20:36.

responsible for organising family responsible for organising family

:20:36.:20:37.

responsible for organising family responsible for organising family

:20:37.:20:37.

days. Pauline says the simple act of days. Pauline says the simple act of

:20:37.:20:38.

days. Pauline says the simple act of days. Pauline says the simple act of

:20:38.:20:39.

play can change how the prisoner and play can change how the prisoner and

:20:39.:20:41.

play can change how the prisoner and play can change how the prisoner and

:20:41.:20:42.

his child view the world. I do his child view the world. I do

:20:42.:20:43.

his child view the world. I do his child view the world. I do

:20:43.:20:43.

believe a bond between the dad and believe a bond between the dad and

:20:43.:20:44.

believe a bond between the dad and their child can be strengthened and

:20:44.:20:46.

their child can be strengthened and their child can be strengthened and

:20:46.:20:47.

their child can be strengthened and I feel that many of the prison will

:20:47.:20:48.

I feel that many of the prison will I feel that many of the prison will

:20:48.:20:48.

actually look again, you know actually look again, you know

:20:48.:20:49.

actually look again, you know actually this isn?t just me, this

:20:49.:20:50.

actually this isn?t just me, this actually this isn?t just me, this

:20:50.:20:51.

actually this isn?t just me, this has affected my whole family and my

:20:51.:20:52.

has affected my whole family and my has affected my whole family and my

:20:52.:20:53.

child?s living that hidden sentence. child?s living that hidden sentence.

:20:53.:20:54.

child?s living that hidden sentence. Research suggests children with a

:20:54.:20:55.

Research suggests children with a Research suggests children with a

:20:55.:20:56.

parent in prison are likely to parent in prison are likely to

:20:56.:21:06.
:21:06.:21:10.

experience depression and social experience depression and social

:21:10.:21:11.

experience depression and social exclusion. To what extent prisoners

:21:11.:21:12.

exclusion. To what extent prisoners exclusion. To what extent prisoners

:21:12.:21:13.

should be allowed to see their should be allowed to see their

:21:13.:21:14.

should be allowed to see their children is controversial. But some

:21:14.:21:15.

children is controversial. But some children is controversial. But some

:21:15.:21:16.

children is controversial. But some say maybe it?s time for a re-think

:21:16.:21:16.

say maybe it?s time for a re-think say maybe it?s time for a re-think

:21:17.:21:17.

about how much family time is about how much family time is

:21:18.:21:19.

allowed behind bars. allowed behind bars.

:21:19.:21:20.

allowed behind bars. allowed behind bars.

:21:20.:21:21.

Now, we all know the effects of a Now, we all know the effects of a

:21:21.:21:22.

Now, we all know the effects of a nuclear war could be devastating and

:21:22.:21:23.

nuclear war could be devastating and nuclear war could be devastating and

:21:23.:21:24.

in the mid-sixties the threat was in the mid-sixties the threat was

:21:24.:21:25.

in the mid-sixties the threat was very real indeed. Vince Rogers meets

:21:25.:21:26.

very real indeed. Vince Rogers meets very real indeed. Vince Rogers meets

:21:26.:21:27.

very real indeed. Vince Rogers meets a group of local people who came a

:21:27.:21:28.

a group of local people who came a a group of local people who came a

:21:28.:21:29.

little bit closer to the experience little bit closer to the experience

:21:29.:21:39.
:21:39.:21:43.

little bit closer to the experience Rochester in Kent. Two square miles

:21:43.:21:45.

Rochester in Kent. Two square miles Rochester in Kent. Two square miles

:21:45.:21:48.

of fire, the heat of a nuclear of fire, the heat of a nuclear

:21:48.:21:48.

of fire, the heat of a nuclear explosion. Fortunately this is all

:21:48.:21:50.

explosion. Fortunately this is all explosion. Fortunately this is all

:21:50.:21:51.

explosion. Fortunately this is all fiction. In 1965 a film was shot in

:21:51.:21:53.

fiction. In 1965 a film was shot in fiction. In 1965 a film was shot in

:21:53.:21:54.

Kent. Deemed so disturbing the BBC Kent. Deemed so disturbing the BBC

:21:54.:21:57.

Kent. Deemed so disturbing the BBC Kent. Deemed so disturbing the BBC

:21:57.:21:57.

banned it for nearly 20 years. World banned it for nearly 20 years. World

:21:57.:21:59.

banned it for nearly 20 years. World banned it for nearly 20 years. World

:21:59.:21:59.

War Two was over & the superpowers War Two was over & the superpowers

:21:59.:22:00.

War Two was over & the superpowers who overthrow Nazi Germany were

:22:00.:22:01.

who overthrow Nazi Germany were who overthrow Nazi Germany were

:22:01.:22:04.

desperate to create a new world desperate to create a new world

:22:04.:22:05.

desperate to create a new world desperate to create a new world

:22:05.:22:06.

order. Which led to the creation of order. Which led to the creation of

:22:06.:22:07.

order. Which led to the creation of a new conflict, history would come

:22:07.:22:08.

a new conflict, history would come a new conflict, history would come

:22:08.:22:11.

a new conflict, history would come to know as the Cold War. The Early

:22:11.:22:12.

to know as the Cold War. The Early to know as the Cold War. The Early

:22:12.:22:13.

Sixties & times are changing with Sixties & times are changing with

:22:13.:22:23.
:22:23.:22:27.

This was the ultimate standoff. This was the ultimate standoff.

:22:27.:22:28.

World leaders literally had their World leaders literally had their

:22:28.:22:29.

World leaders literally had their World leaders literally had their

:22:29.:22:29.

finger on the button and we could finger on the button and we could

:22:29.:22:30.

finger on the button and we could have been minutes away from the

:22:30.:22:31.

have been minutes away from the have been minutes away from the

:22:31.:22:36.

have been minutes away from the launch of a nuclear weapon at any

:22:36.:22:46.
:22:46.:23:04.

At a Cold War bunker in Gravesend we At a Cold War bunker in Gravesend we

:23:04.:23:05.

At a Cold War bunker in Gravesend we have assembled some of the cast for

:23:05.:23:06.

have assembled some of the cast for have assembled some of the cast for

:23:06.:23:10.

a special screening of the film. a special screening of the film.

:23:10.:23:11.

a special screening of the film. a special screening of the film.

:23:11.:23:12.

a special screening of the film. Although I have seen it before,

:23:12.:23:13.

Although I have seen it before, Although I have seen it before,

:23:13.:23:15.

watching it today, I was still watching it today, I was still

:23:15.:23:19.

watching it today, I was still shocked. Absolutely shocked. A state

:23:19.:23:22.

shocked. Absolutely shocked. A state shocked. Absolutely shocked. A state

:23:22.:23:26.

of national emergency has been of national emergency has been

:23:26.:23:27.

of national emergency has been announced. After you hear the

:23:27.:23:28.

announced. After you hear the announced. After you hear the

:23:28.:23:29.

announced. After you hear the facts, I decided that I did not want

:23:29.:23:30.

facts, I decided that I did not want facts, I decided that I did not want

:23:30.:23:31.

facts, I decided that I did not want to litter it. If there was a

:23:31.:23:32.

to litter it. If there was a to litter it. If there was a

:23:32.:23:33.

three-minute warning, I would like three-minute warning, I would like

:23:33.:23:33.

three-minute warning, I would like three-minute warning, I would like

:23:33.:23:34.

to stand in the middle of the road to stand in the middle of the road

:23:34.:23:42.

to stand in the middle of the road to stand in the middle of the road

:23:42.:23:44.

to stand in the middle of the road and get over and with. The film told

:23:44.:23:45.

and get over and with. The film told and get over and with. The film told

:23:45.:23:46.

and get over and with. The film told the bleak story of a nuclear attack

:23:46.:23:53.

the bleak story of a nuclear attack the bleak story of a nuclear attack

:23:53.:23:54.

the bleak story of a nuclear attack on Kent. The cast, well there was no

:23:54.:23:55.

on Kent. The cast, well there was no on Kent. The cast, well there was no

:23:55.:23:56.

big Hollywood stars involved, just big Hollywood stars involved, just

:23:56.:23:57.

big Hollywood stars involved, just around 350 amateur actors from the

:23:57.:23:59.

around 350 amateur actors from the around 350 amateur actors from the

:23:59.:24:02.

around 350 amateur actors from the county. I happen to be there when

:24:02.:24:03.

county. I happen to be there when county. I happen to be there when

:24:03.:24:03.

county. I happen to be there when the film crew turned up. I was

:24:03.:24:04.

the film crew turned up. I was the film crew turned up. I was

:24:04.:24:05.

playing in the damaged buildings. playing in the damaged buildings.

:24:05.:24:06.

playing in the damaged buildings. playing in the damaged buildings.

:24:06.:24:07.

They asked us to play in the crowd They asked us to play in the crowd

:24:07.:24:11.

They asked us to play in the crowd and scream and shout. Doctor

:24:11.:24:12.

and scream and shout. Doctor and scream and shout. Doctor

:24:12.:24:15.

Thornley stops to make an emergency Thornley stops to make an emergency

:24:15.:24:16.

Thornley stops to make an emergency call. Canterbury. But it wasn?t just

:24:16.:24:17.

call. Canterbury. But it wasn?t just call. Canterbury. But it wasn?t just

:24:17.:24:18.

Kent?s amateur actors that were Kent?s amateur actors that were

:24:18.:24:19.

Kent?s amateur actors that were being used in the piece. From

:24:19.:24:20.

being used in the piece. From being used in the piece. From

:24:20.:24:21.

Gravesend to Dover many of our Gravesend to Dover many of our

:24:21.:24:22.

Gravesend to Dover many of our Gravesend to Dover many of our

:24:22.:24:23.

locations made it to the final film locations made it to the final film

:24:23.:24:24.

locations made it to the final film locations made it to the final film

:24:24.:24:24.

as well. Christine Eyden was a young as well. Christine Eyden was a young

:24:24.:24:25.

as well. Christine Eyden was a young as well. Christine Eyden was a young

:24:25.:24:31.

teacher when she was given a part in teacher when she was given a part in

:24:31.:24:32.

teacher when she was given a part in teacher when she was given a part in

:24:32.:24:33.

the film. She?s come back to the the film. She?s come back to the

:24:33.:24:34.

the film. She?s come back to the Grand Shaft Barracks in Dover with

:24:34.:24:35.

Grand Shaft Barracks in Dover with Grand Shaft Barracks in Dover with

:24:35.:24:36.

Grand Shaft Barracks in Dover with her son Phil, who helps with the

:24:36.:24:42.

her son Phil, who helps with the her son Phil, who helps with the

:24:42.:24:43.

her son Phil, who helps with the upkeep of the site. There was great

:24:43.:24:44.

upkeep of the site. There was great upkeep of the site. There was great

:24:44.:24:45.

big wind machine for the firestorm. big wind machine for the firestorm.

:24:45.:24:46.

big wind machine for the firestorm. big wind machine for the firestorm.

:24:46.:24:47.

We were running up and down in front We were running up and down in front

:24:47.:24:51.

We were running up and down in front We were running up and down in front

:24:52.:24:53.

of the wind machine. The fire was of the wind machine. The fire was

:24:53.:24:54.

of the wind machine. The fire was over there. This is the phenomenon

:24:54.:24:56.

over there. This is the phenomenon over there. This is the phenomenon

:24:56.:24:58.

that could perhaps happen in Britain that could perhaps happen in Britain

:24:58.:25:00.

that could perhaps happen in Britain following a nuclear strike against

:25:00.:25:01.

following a nuclear strike against following a nuclear strike against

:25:01.:25:02.

following a nuclear strike against some of our cities. We had go down

:25:02.:25:05.

some of our cities. We had go down some of our cities. We had go down

:25:05.:25:09.

some of our cities. We had go down therefore I met -- make make up.

:25:09.:25:11.

therefore I met -- make make up. therefore I met -- make make up.

:25:11.:25:14.

therefore I met -- make make up. They had to put Ross Krispies on our

:25:14.:25:15.

They had to put Ross Krispies on our They had to put Ross Krispies on our

:25:15.:25:16.

They had to put Ross Krispies on our face. We were blacked over. That was

:25:16.:25:17.

face. We were blacked over. That was face. We were blacked over. That was

:25:17.:25:27.
:25:27.:25:28.

face. We were blacked over. That was With breakfast cereal applied to

:25:28.:25:29.

With breakfast cereal applied to With breakfast cereal applied to

:25:29.:25:29.

faces for nuclear burns and wind faces for nuclear burns and wind

:25:29.:25:31.

faces for nuclear burns and wind machines at the ready. The actors

:25:31.:25:32.

machines at the ready. The actors machines at the ready. The actors

:25:32.:25:33.

were poised to give the performance were poised to give the performance

:25:33.:25:38.

were poised to give the performance were poised to give the performance

:25:38.:25:38.

of a life time. I played two parts. of a life time. I played two parts.

:25:38.:25:41.

of a life time. I played two parts. Originally, the first part I played

:25:41.:25:42.

Originally, the first part I played Originally, the first part I played

:25:42.:25:45.

Originally, the first part I played was a body in the firestorm. When we

:25:45.:25:47.

was a body in the firestorm. When we was a body in the firestorm. When we

:25:47.:25:47.

had a little walk-through, I was had a little walk-through, I was

:25:48.:25:48.

had a little walk-through, I was had a little walk-through, I was

:25:48.:25:51.

fine. I was lying on the floor. The fine. I was lying on the floor. The

:25:51.:25:52.

fine. I was lying on the floor. The fine. I was lying on the floor. The

:25:52.:25:53.

thing is, when I see the film, you thing is, when I see the film, you

:25:53.:25:55.

thing is, when I see the film, you thing is, when I see the film, you

:25:55.:25:56.

can't see me? I could only see my can't see me? I could only see my

:25:56.:26:06.
:26:06.:26:06.

can't see me? I could only see my can't see me? I could only see my

:26:06.:26:07.

own left foot! So the film was in own left foot! So the film was in

:26:07.:26:08.

own left foot! So the film was in own left foot! So the film was in

:26:08.:26:09.

the can and ready to be shown. Buses the can and ready to be shown. Buses

:26:09.:26:10.

the can and ready to be shown. Buses the can and ready to be shown. Buses

:26:10.:26:11.

full of cast members travelled up to full of cast members travelled up to

:26:11.:26:13.

full of cast members travelled up to full of cast members travelled up to

:26:13.:26:19.

a studio in London. They used to say a studio in London. They used to say

:26:19.:26:26.

a studio in London. They used to say that... The final announcement was

:26:26.:26:27.

that... The final announcement was that... The final announcement was

:26:27.:26:28.

that... The final announcement was that the film should be here within

:26:28.:26:29.

that the film should be here within that the film should be here within

:26:29.:26:31.

20 minutes. 20 minutes later, they 20 minutes. 20 minutes later, they

:26:31.:26:33.

20 minutes. 20 minutes later, they 20 minutes. 20 minutes later, they

:26:33.:26:34.

said they do not know whether film said they do not know whether film

:26:34.:26:38.

said they do not know whether film said they do not know whether film

:26:38.:26:39.

is. You better go home! Thank you is. You better go home! Thank you

:26:39.:26:42.

is. You better go home! Thank you is. You better go home! Thank you

:26:42.:26:42.

for coming. They had a feeling that for coming. They had a feeling that

:26:42.:26:45.

for coming. They had a feeling that the BBC had been under government

:26:45.:26:46.

the BBC had been under government the BBC had been under government

:26:46.:26:47.

pressure to lose the film, because pressure to lose the film, because

:26:47.:26:48.

pressure to lose the film, because pressure to lose the film, because

:26:48.:26:52.

it was the sort of thing that they it was the sort of thing that they

:26:52.:26:53.

it was the sort of thing that they it was the sort of thing that they

:26:53.:26:54.

did not want the public to see when did not want the public to see when

:26:54.:26:55.

did not want the public to see when there was a threat of nuclear

:26:55.:27:01.

there was a threat of nuclear there was a threat of nuclear

:27:01.:27:02.

there was a threat of nuclear attack. But was the BBC right to ban

:27:02.:27:03.

attack. But was the BBC right to ban attack. But was the BBC right to ban

:27:03.:27:03.

attack. But was the BBC right to ban the film for nearly 20 years?

:27:04.:27:06.

the film for nearly 20 years? the film for nearly 20 years?

:27:07.:27:09.

you see the young children, with you see the young children, with

:27:09.:27:10.

you see the young children, with people hiding under the table, it

:27:10.:27:12.

people hiding under the table, it people hiding under the table, it

:27:12.:27:17.

was quite awful. It was very was quite awful. It was very

:27:17.:27:19.

distressing. Too distressing to distressing. Too distressing to

:27:19.:27:20.

distressing. Too distressing to broadcast? I think it would have

:27:20.:27:21.

broadcast? I think it would have broadcast? I think it would have

:27:21.:27:25.

caused a lot of distress. Despite caused a lot of distress. Despite

:27:25.:27:26.

caused a lot of distress. Despite being banned on the television the

:27:26.:27:27.

being banned on the television the being banned on the television the

:27:27.:27:27.

BBC reluctantly allowed a limited BBC reluctantly allowed a limited

:27:27.:27:28.

BBC reluctantly allowed a limited BBC reluctantly allowed a limited

:27:28.:27:29.

cinema release. And in 1967 the film cinema release. And in 1967 the film

:27:29.:27:39.
:27:39.:27:40.

cinema release. And in 1967 the film cinema release. And in 1967 the film

:27:40.:27:41.

won an Oscar for best documentary. won an Oscar for best documentary.

:27:41.:27:41.

won an Oscar for best documentary. won an Oscar for best documentary.

:27:41.:27:43.

won an Oscar for best documentary. have changed my CV to say I was in a

:27:43.:27:50.

have changed my CV to say I was in a have changed my CV to say I was in a

:27:50.:27:51.

Oscar-winning film! December 25. A Oscar-winning film! December 25. A

:27:51.:27:53.

Oscar-winning film! December 25. A refugee compound in Dover, four

:27:53.:27:55.

refugee compound in Dover, four refugee compound in Dover, four

:27:55.:27:56.

months after the attack. Luckily months after the attack. Luckily

:27:56.:27:57.

months after the attack. Luckily months after the attack. Luckily

:27:57.:27:58.

cold war bunkers like this one were cold war bunkers like this one were

:27:58.:27:59.

cold war bunkers like this one were never used for their intended use.

:27:59.:28:00.

never used for their intended use. never used for their intended use.

:28:00.:28:00.

never used for their intended use. And the only glimpse of a nuclear

:28:00.:28:01.

And the only glimpse of a nuclear And the only glimpse of a nuclear

:28:01.:28:02.

And the only glimpse of a nuclear attack on Kent was through a film

:28:02.:28:06.

attack on Kent was through a film attack on Kent was through a film

:28:06.:28:16.
:28:16.:28:24.

If you want any more information If you want any more information

:28:24.:28:26.

If you want any more information about tonight's show, you can visit

:28:26.:28:29.

about tonight's show, you can visit about tonight's show, you can visit

:28:29.:28:29.

about tonight's show, you can visit about tonight's show, you can visit

:28:29.:28:37.

about tonight's show, you can visit our Kent and Sussex website. This is

:28:37.:28:38.

our Kent and Sussex website. This is our Kent and Sussex website. This is

:28:38.:28:40.

the last programme in the series. the last programme in the series.

:28:40.:28:41.

the last programme in the series. the last programme in the series.

:28:41.:28:42.

Don't worry, we will be back in the Don't worry, we will be back in the

:28:42.:28:44.

Don't worry, we will be back in the autumn. Keep your stories coming in.

:28:44.:28:45.

autumn. Keep your stories coming in. autumn. Keep your stories coming in.

:28:45.:28:46.

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