11/02/2013 Inside Out West Midlands

This programme contains a hard- This programme contains a hard-

This programme contains a hard- hitting report about child abuse,

hitting report about child abuse, hitting report about child abuse,

which some viewers may find Hello. You find me amongst 70

Hello. You find me amongst 70 Hello. You find me amongst 70

historic aircraft at the Royal Air historic aircraft at the Royal Air

historic aircraft at the Royal Air Force Museum in Cosford. And

Force Museum in Cosford. And Force Museum in Cosford. And

tonight, we've a previously unseen tonight, we've a previously unseen

tonight, we've a previously unseen interview with one of the most

interview with one of the most interview with one of the most

controversial figures of the Second controversial figures of the Second

controversial figures of the Second controversial figures of the Second

World War - Bomber Harris. Also on the show:

the show: the show:

the show: After two and half years on the

After two and half years on the After two and half years on the

road, a famous theatre company road, a famous theatre company

road, a famous theatre company prepares to go home. We've really

prepares to go home. We've really prepares to go home. We've really

enjoyed our time out of the enjoyed our time out of the

enjoyed our time out of the building, it's been really exciting

building, it's been really exciting building, it's been really exciting

and we've learned loads of new and we've learned loads of new

and we've learned loads of new things, but we're really looking

things, but we're really looking things, but we're really looking

forward to getting back in the forward to getting back in the

forward to getting back in the building and revving up, bringing

building and revving up, bringing building and revving up, bringing

building and revving up, bringing the audiences back in and having a

good time. good time.

good time. But first tonight, we investigate a

But first tonight, we investigate a But first tonight, we investigate a

But first tonight, we investigate a rise in reports of child sex abuse

rise in reports of child sex abuse rise in reports of child sex abuse

and grooming in the West Midlands. and grooming in the West Midlands.

and grooming in the West Midlands. One charity says the number of

One charity says the number of One charity says the number of

calls from this region has doubled calls from this region has doubled

calls from this region has doubled calls from this region has doubled

in the last five years. So what can in the last five years. So what can

in the last five years. So what can be done to protect our children?

be done to protect our children? Giles Latcham reports.

Giles Latcham reports. Giles Latcham reports.

Giles Latcham reports. A life in boxes. But this time it's

A life in boxes. But this time it's A life in boxes. But this time it's

a happy occasion for Steve. That's a happy occasion for Steve. That's

a happy occasion for Steve. That's a happy occasion for Steve. That's

because this is his own home - because this is his own home -

because this is his own home - because this is his own home -

something he never had as a child. something he never had as a child.

something he never had as a child. something he never had as a child.

By 15, he'd seen more care homes By 15, he'd seen more care homes

By 15, he'd seen more care homes and foster families than he'd had

and foster families than he'd had and foster families than he'd had

birthdays. He was abused throughout. birthdays. He was abused throughout.

birthdays. He was abused throughout. birthdays. He was abused throughout.

You seem to grow up with it. You You seem to grow up with it. You

You seem to grow up with it. You know, if another boy or another

know, if another boy or another know, if another boy or another

girl come into the dormitories, or girl come into the dormitories, or

girl come into the dormitories, or whatever, you know, you knew you

whatever, you know, you knew you whatever, you know, you knew you

whatever, you know, you knew you was going to get played with, or

was going to get played with, or was going to get played with, or

something was going to be happening. something was going to be happening.

something was going to be happening. You remember seeing the telltale

You remember seeing the telltale You remember seeing the telltale

You remember seeing the telltale signs from the other boys and the

signs from the other boys and the signs from the other boys and the

signs from the other boys and the other girls - you know, wet beds,

other girls - you know, wet beds, other girls - you know, wet beds,

crying. But the emotional impact of crying. But the emotional impact of

crying. But the emotional impact of abuse is less obvious. He still

abuse is less obvious. He still vividly remembers the regular

vividly remembers the regular vividly remembers the regular

punishment of being locked for punishment of being locked for

punishment of being locked for punishment of being locked for

hours in a dark cupboard, under the hours in a dark cupboard, under the

hours in a dark cupboard, under the stairs. You knew in there, there

stairs. You knew in there, there stairs. You knew in there, there

was nobody, there was nothing. was nobody, there was nothing.

was nobody, there was nothing. was nobody, there was nothing.

You'd be there in your pants, or You'd be there in your pants, or

You'd be there in your pants, or whatever, sat there, you'd see all

whatever, sat there, you'd see all whatever, sat there, you'd see all

whatever, sat there, you'd see all the marks on the wall where they'd

the marks on the wall where they'd the marks on the wall where they'd

all written their names, being all all written their names, being all

all written their names, being all all written their names, being all

big and brave. You knew after an big and brave. You knew after an

big and brave. You knew after an big and brave. You knew after an

hour of writing that you'd be BLEEP. hour of writing that you'd be BLEEP.

hour of writing that you'd be BLEEP. hour of writing that you'd be BLEEP.

Sorry. You'd be scared to crap. So, Sorry. You'd be scared to crap. So,

Sorry. You'd be scared to crap. So, yeah. Emotionally, being in that

yeah. Emotionally, being in that yeah. Emotionally, being in that

yeah. Emotionally, being in that box, you have to come out of that

box, you have to come out of that box, you have to come out of that

box, you have to come out of that box at some stage. When you get out

box at some stage. When you get out box at some stage. When you get out

of that box there's a 40-year-old of that box there's a 40-year-old

of that box there's a 40-year-old man. It's completely different.

man. It's completely different. man. It's completely different.

man. It's completely different. abuse began when he was just three

abuse began when he was just three abuse began when he was just three

years old. The scars remain today. years old. The scars remain today.

years old. The scars remain today. years old. The scars remain today.

It's not until you find out that It's not until you find out that

It's not until you find out that It's not until you find out that

what's happened to me as a child what's happened to me as a child

what's happened to me as a child obviously created this person as

obviously created this person as obviously created this person as

I've been going along. I've not I've been going along. I've not

I've been going along. I've not I've been going along. I've not

been a great dad. I've not been a been a great dad. I've not been a

been a great dad. I've not been a very good husband. You know. Those

very good husband. You know. Those very good husband. You know. Those

things still hurt you now. Lucy, things still hurt you now. Lucy,

things still hurt you now. Lucy, things still hurt you now. Lucy,

which isn't her real name, was just which isn't her real name, was just

which isn't her real name, was just which isn't her real name, was just

four years old the first time she four years old the first time she

four years old the first time she was sexually abused by a nursery

was sexually abused by a nursery was sexually abused by a nursery

worker, who should have been worker, who should have been

worker, who should have been protecting her. It was literally

protecting her. It was literally protecting her. It was literally

protecting her. It was literally rape, when I was a very small child.

rape, when I was a very small child. rape, when I was a very small child.

I remember the conversations going I remember the conversations going

I remember the conversations going I remember the conversations going

on over my head, and my mother and on over my head, and my mother and

on over my head, and my mother and aunt discussing it. And my mum

aunt discussing it. And my mum aunt discussing it. And my mum

saying she couldn't cope with saying she couldn't cope with

saying she couldn't cope with saying she couldn't cope with

dealing with it. I was actually in dealing with it. I was actually in

dealing with it. I was actually in dealing with it. I was actually in

the bath, and I didn't want to sit the bath, and I didn't want to sit

the bath, and I didn't want to sit the bath, and I didn't want to sit

down in the bath, cos it was so down in the bath, cos it was so

down in the bath, cos it was so uncomfortable to actually let the

uncomfortable to actually let the water touch me.

water touch me. water touch me.

Two desperately sad stories, about Two desperately sad stories, about

Two desperately sad stories, about a problem the whole nation's become

a problem the whole nation's become uncomfortably familiar with.

uncomfortably familiar with. uncomfortably familiar with.

report investigating more than 50 report investigating more than 50

report investigating more than 50 years of allegations against Jimmy

years of allegations against Jimmy years of allegations against Jimmy

Savile From the Jimmy Savile Savile From the Jimmy Savile

Savile From the Jimmy Savile scandal, to the grooming of teenage

scandal, to the grooming of teenage scandal, to the grooming of teenage

girls by Asian gangs, the media girls by Asian gangs, the media

girls by Asian gangs, the media seems full of disturbing cases of

seems full of disturbing cases of seems full of disturbing cases of

seems full of disturbing cases of child sex abuse. But is this a new

child sex abuse. But is this a new child sex abuse. But is this a new

problem, or one we've suddenly problem, or one we've suddenly

opened our eyes to? opened our eyes to?

opened our eyes to? opened our eyes to?

We wanted to get an idea of the We wanted to get an idea of the

We wanted to get an idea of the We wanted to get an idea of the

scale of the problem in our region, scale of the problem in our region,

scale of the problem in our region, scale of the problem in our region,

so we decided to do a bit of so we decided to do a bit of

so we decided to do a bit of research. One national charity says

research. One national charity says research. One national charity says

it's at its busiest ever, with it's at its busiest ever, with

it's at its busiest ever, with calls to its West Midlands helpline

calls to its West Midlands helpline calls to its West Midlands helpline

nearly doubling in the past five nearly doubling in the past five

years. Another, Stoke-based, years. Another, Stoke-based,

years. Another, Stoke-based, charity called Savana gave us an

charity called Savana gave us an charity called Savana gave us an

anonymous database of all its anonymous database of all its

anonymous database of all its clients over the past year. We

clients over the past year. We clients over the past year. We

crunched the numbers, and we found crunched the numbers, and we found

crunched the numbers, and we found crunched the numbers, and we found

that in that year they received 255 that in that year they received 255

that in that year they received 255 new referrals from victims of child

new referrals from victims of child new referrals from victims of child

sex abuse. Three-quarters said they sex abuse. Three-quarters said they

sex abuse. Three-quarters said they were abused by a family member,

were abused by a family member, were abused by a family member,

more than half didn't report the more than half didn't report the

Grooming and childhood sexual abuse Grooming and childhood sexual abuse

Grooming and childhood sexual abuse is a bigger problem than people

is a bigger problem than people is a bigger problem than people

realise. And she should know. realise. And she should know.

realise. And she should know. Justine's been working to prevent

Justine's been working to prevent childhood sexual exploitation for

childhood sexual exploitation for childhood sexual exploitation for

six years. It's something that has six years. It's something that has

six years. It's something that has had its awareness raised by

had its awareness raised by had its awareness raised by

releases from the press and releases from the press and

releases from the press and storylines, but it's not a young

storylines, but it's not a young storylines, but it's not a young

problem at all. Savana is a problem at all. Savana is a

Staffordshire charity, offering Staffordshire charity, offering

Staffordshire charity, offering counselling and support to victims

counselling and support to victims counselling and support to victims

counselling and support to victims of child sex abuse. It's a very

of child sex abuse. It's a very of child sex abuse. It's a very

of child sex abuse. It's a very dirty world that we work in, when

dirty world that we work in, when dirty world that we work in, when

dirty world that we work in, when we work in support services and we

we work in support services and we we work in support services and we

see the horrible things about see the horrible things about

see the horrible things about humanity. Lots of people do not

humanity. Lots of people do not humanity. Lots of people do not

humanity. Lots of people do not come forward, so for those that we

come forward, so for those that we come forward, so for those that we

come forward, so for those that we do know about there is a lot of

do know about there is a lot of do know about there is a lot of

people hidden behind that. people hidden behind that.

people hidden behind that. begins with presents and affection,

begins with presents and affection, begins with presents and affection,

and ends in abuse. We're talking and ends in abuse. We're talking

and ends in abuse. We're talking and ends in abuse. We're talking

about grooming - a new word for an about grooming - a new word for an

about grooming - a new word for an old problem. It's usually Asian

old problem. It's usually Asian old problem. It's usually Asian

groups that are marketed as the groups that are marketed as the

groups that are marketed as the problem here. It goes across the

problem here. It goes across the problem here. It goes across the

board. It goes completely across board. It goes completely across

board. It goes completely across the board. Abusers are abusers,

the board. Abusers are abusers, the board. Abusers are abusers,

there is no stereotypical person there is no stereotypical person

there is no stereotypical person who abuses. They just do it.

who abuses. They just do it. who abuses. They just do it.

Certain people would offer you Certain people would offer you

Certain people would offer you Certain people would offer you

things to, you know, get a little things to, you know, get a little

things to, you know, get a little something back or something. I look

something back or something. I look something back or something. I look

something back or something. I look back, and at one point I can

back, and at one point I can back, and at one point I can

back, and at one point I can remember saying that I felt like a

remember saying that I felt like a remember saying that I felt like a

prostitute. Because I'd been given prostitute. Because I'd been given

prostitute. Because I'd been given prostitute. Because I'd been given

money for doing it. And the power money for doing it. And the power

money for doing it. And the power to stop it happening ultimately

to stop it happening ultimately to stop it happening ultimately

comes down to the police. But comes down to the police. But

comes down to the police. But remember, our research shows that

remember, our research shows that remember, our research shows that

remember, our research shows that more than half of the child abuse

more than half of the child abuse more than half of the child abuse

victims who contacted Savana for victims who contacted Savana for

victims who contacted Savana for help, didn't contact the police. So

help, didn't contact the police. So help, didn't contact the police. So

help, didn't contact the police. So what are they doing about it?

what are they doing about it? Staffordshire Police control room.

Staffordshire Police control room. Staffordshire Police control room.

This is the control room at This is the control room at

Staffordshire Police headquarters. Staffordshire Police headquarters.

Staffordshire Police headquarters. It's here that staff take calls

It's here that staff take calls It's here that staff take calls

about reports of child sex abuse. about reports of child sex abuse.

about reports of child sex abuse. The information is then passed on

The information is then passed on The information is then passed on

to the main Child Exploitation team at Stoke.

at Stoke. at Stoke.

at Stoke. The team is busier than ever.

The team is busier than ever. The team is busier than ever.

The team is busier than ever. had annually set up team in the

had annually set up team in the had annually set up team in the

had annually set up team in the summer of last year, and we have

summer of last year, and we have summer of last year, and we have

recently doubled the resource to recently doubled the resource to

recently doubled the resource to respond better to the situation.

respond better to the situation. respond better to the situation.

Other more cases being reported to Other more cases being reported to

Other more cases being reported to Other more cases being reported to

you now? Yes, I think there are, you now? Yes, I think there are,

you now? Yes, I think there are, but I think that reflects the

but I think that reflects the but I think that reflects the

degree of confidence that people degree of confidence that people

degree of confidence that people have. Two weeks ago this team

have. Two weeks ago this team have. Two weeks ago this team

have. Two weeks ago this team doubled in size to 14 strong. There

doubled in size to 14 strong. There doubled in size to 14 strong. There

doubled in size to 14 strong. There is more of a focus on measuring --

is more of a focus on measuring -- is more of a focus on measuring --

working with other agencies such as working with other agencies such as

working with other agencies such as charities. We would always like to

charities. We would always like to charities. We would always like to

see more offenders prosecuted, but see more offenders prosecuted, but

see more offenders prosecuted, but sometimes we are talking about

sometimes we are talking about sometimes we are talking about

young people and vulnerable adults young people and vulnerable adults

young people and vulnerable adults young people and vulnerable adults

who find it difficult to give their who find it difficult to give their

who find it difficult to give their version of events. This work behind

version of events. This work behind version of events. This work behind

the scenes is aimed at exposing the scenes is aimed at exposing

abuse, typically hidden behind abuse, typically hidden behind

abuse, typically hidden behind closed doors, in some cases, for

closed doors, in some cases, for closed doors, in some cases, for

closed doors, in some cases, for decades. I did not think there was

decades. I did not think there was decades. I did not think there was

decades. I did not think there was a way forward. At one point I was

a way forward. At one point I was a way forward. At one point I was

so low, I contemplated suicide so low, I contemplated suicide

so low, I contemplated suicide so low, I contemplated suicide

because I felt if I could go to because I felt if I could go to

because I felt if I could go to because I felt if I could go to

sleep and not wake up, I would not sleep and not wake up, I would not

sleep and not wake up, I would not have to think about it anymore.

have to think about it anymore. have to think about it anymore.

have to think about it anymore. There is no real happy ending when

There is no real happy ending when There is no real happy ending when

There is no real happy ending when it comes to child sex abuse, but

it comes to child sex abuse, but it comes to child sex abuse, but

it comes to child sex abuse, but the more people who speak out about

the more people who speak out about the more people who speak out about

the more people who speak out about it, the better chance we have of

it, the better chance we have of it, the better chance we have of

it, the better chance we have of stopping it. We and I was a little

stopping it. We and I was a little stopping it. We and I was a little

girl, this was never talked about. girl, this was never talked about.

girl, this was never talked about. girl, this was never talked about.

girl, this was never talked about. If I knew how better at -- how much

If I knew how better at -- how much If I knew how better at -- how much

If I knew how better at -- how much better my life would could be, I

better my life would could be, I better my life would could be, I

would have spoken to somebody would have spoken to somebody

would have spoken to somebody would have spoken to somebody

sooner. A I have lots of good sooner. A I have lots of good

sooner. A I have lots of good sooner. A I have lots of good

friends a round now, I feel a lot friends a round now, I feel a lot

friends a round now, I feel a lot friends a round now, I feel a lot

more free and it has made me feel more free and it has made me feel

more free and it has made me feel that I can actually understand what

that I can actually understand what that I can actually understand what

Steve wants rather than everybody around me.

around me. around me.

around me. If you'd like to get in touch, you

If you'd like to get in touch, you If you'd like to get in touch, you

If you'd like to get in touch, you can contact us on Twitter. Or you

can contact us on Twitter. Or you can e-mail me direct.

can e-mail me direct. can e-mail me direct.

Still to come tonight, centenary Still to come tonight, centenary

celebrations for Birmingham's Rep celebrations for Birmingham's Rep

celebrations for Birmingham's Rep theatre, counting down to a bright

new era. new era.

new era. Arthur Harris led RAF Bomber

Arthur Harris led RAF Bomber Arthur Harris led RAF Bomber

Command in World War II, earning Command in World War II, earning

Command in World War II, earning him the nickname Bomber Harris.

him the nickname Bomber Harris. "Saturation bombing" of German

"Saturation bombing" of German "Saturation bombing" of German

cities like Cologne and Dresden cities like Cologne and Dresden

cities like Cologne and Dresden made him a hugely controversial

made him a hugely controversial made him a hugely controversial

made him a hugely controversial figure. Back in 1977 he gave an

figure. Back in 1977 he gave an interview, which has remained

interview, which has remained interview, which has remained

largely unseen - until tonight. largely unseen - until tonight.

Here's Anthony Bartram. Here's Anthony Bartram.

Here's Anthony Bartram. We shall never descend to the

We shall never descend to the We shall never descend to the

German and Japanese level. But if German and Japanese level. But if

German and Japanese level. But if German and Japanese level. But if

anybody likes to play rough, we can anybody likes to play rough, we can

play rough too. play rough too.

play rough too. Steamy words fired from cinema

Steamy words fired from cinema Steamy words fired from cinema

newsreels to weld a nation together newsreels to weld a nation together

newsreels to weld a nation together newsreels to weld a nation together

in the heat of war. Tonight, we in the heat of war. Tonight, we

in the heat of war. Tonight, we in the heat of war. Tonight, we

have a rare film to show you. have a rare film to show you.

have a rare film to show you. All but forgotten after 35 years

All but forgotten after 35 years All but forgotten after 35 years

collecting dust in the RAF's collecting dust in the RAF's

archive, Professor Tony Mason archive, Professor Tony Mason

archive, Professor Tony Mason tracked down and persuaded the

tracked down and persuaded the tracked down and persuaded the

Ministry of Defence to let them Ministry of Defence to let them

Ministry of Defence to let them Ministry of Defence to let them

show you are part of history he show you are part of history he

played a part in. played a part in.

played a part in. In 1977, their sets and newly-

In 1977, their sets and newly- In 1977, their sets and newly-

promoted Group Captain Tony Mason. promoted Group Captain Tony Mason.

promoted Group Captain Tony Mason. promoted Group Captain Tony Mason.

Sir Arthur, may I welcome you to Sir Arthur, may I welcome you to

Sir Arthur, may I welcome you to the Staff College, and thank you

the Staff College, and thank you the Staff College, and thank you

the Staff College, and thank you for agreeing to discuss with us the

for agreeing to discuss with us the for agreeing to discuss with us the

bomber offensive in World War II. bomber offensive in World War II.

bomber offensive in World War II. The young officer's orders were to

The young officer's orders were to The young officer's orders were to

interview him. Jeremy Paxman it was interview him. Jeremy Paxman it was

interview him. Jeremy Paxman it was interview him. Jeremy Paxman it was

not! I was deferential, I hope I not! I was deferential, I hope I

not! I was deferential, I hope I not! I was deferential, I hope I

was not overly so -- sycophantic. I was not overly so -- sycophantic. I

was very nervous. was very nervous.

was very nervous. was very nervous.

Let the enemy have it on the chin. Let the enemy have it on the chin.

Let the enemy have it on the chin. Arthur Bomber Harris was a key

Arthur Bomber Harris was a key Arthur Bomber Harris was a key

Arthur Bomber Harris was a key figure of World War II. The RAF

figure of World War II. The RAF wanted but lessons learned

wanted but lessons learned interview, navigating his wartime

interview, navigating his wartime interview, navigating his wartime

career directing bombing raids from career directing bombing raids from

career directing bombing raids from 1942-1945. He was associated with

1942-1945. He was associated with 1942-1945. He was associated with

1942-1945. He was associated with what can be told -- called area

what can be told -- called area what can be told -- called area

bombing, and there was a fair bombing, and there was a fair

bombing, and there was a fair population who were not terribly

population who were not terribly population who were not terribly

happy with the way that Bomber happy with the way that Bomber

happy with the way that Bomber Command -- command had targeted

Command -- command had targeted Command -- command had targeted

cities. That was the target of cities. That was the target of

cities. That was the target of Tony's first question. Were you

Tony's first question. Were you Tony's first question. Were you

given any specific directives? given any specific directives?

given any specific directives? given any specific directives?

yes. I lived in a shower of yes. I lived in a shower of

yes. I lived in a shower of directives, from the day I took

directives, from the day I took directives, from the day I took

directives, from the day I took over. But the directive when I took

over. But the directive when I took over. But the directive when I took

over. But the directive when I took over. But the directive when I took

over was the one at that I was not over was the one at that I was not

over was the one at that I was not to specifically aimed at anything

to specifically aimed at anything to specifically aimed at anything

to specifically aimed at anything unless ordered to do so, just to

unless ordered to do so, just to unless ordered to do so, just to

unless ordered to do so, just to blast the German cities as a whole.

blast the German cities as a whole. blast the German cities as a whole.

blast the German cities as a whole. By Harris shoots than the myth that

By Harris shoots than the myth that By Harris shoots than the myth that

area bombing was his idea. area bombing was his idea.

area bombing was his idea. area bombing was his idea.

In fact it was already a Government In fact it was already a Government

In fact it was already a Government In fact it was already a Government

policy. I felt that the man I was policy. I felt that the man I was

policy. I felt that the man I was interviewing, he was older, yes,

interviewing, he was older, yes, interviewing, he was older, yes,

interviewing, he was older, yes, but he was still that man who had

but he was still that man who had but he was still that man who had

commanded Bomber Command for those commanded Bomber Command for those

commanded Bomber Command for those three years. Hitler and his Nazi

three years. Hitler and his Nazi three years. Hitler and his Nazi

three years. Hitler and his Nazi gang have slowed -- sowed the wind,

gang have slowed -- sowed the wind, gang have slowed -- sowed the wind,

gang have slowed -- sowed the wind, met him at reap the whirlwind.

met him at reap the whirlwind. met him at reap the whirlwind.

began to see the qualities Church began to see the qualities Church

began to see the qualities Church began to see the qualities Church

Hill valued so highly. The value of Hill valued so highly. The value of

Hill valued so highly. The value of Hill valued so highly. The value of

the scratchy film it is clear to the scratchy film it is clear to

the scratchy film it is clear to war historians as well. Did you

war historians as well. Did you war historians as well. Did you

feel free to ask harass the feel free to ask harass the

feel free to ask harass the feel free to ask harass the

questions you wanted to ask, or did questions you wanted to ask, or did

you feel constrained? you feel constrained?

you feel constrained? Academic still ask questions about

Academic still ask questions about Academic still ask questions about

Harris, but few got answers from Harris, but few got answers from

Harris, but few got answers from Harris, but few got answers from

the man himself. Be it is not done the man himself. Be it is not done

the man himself. Be it is not done immediately after the Second World

immediately after the Second World immediately after the Second World

immediately after the Second World War, it is done after a time when

War, it is done after a time when War, it is done after a time when

there have already been several there have already been several

waves of interpretation about waves of interpretation about

waves of interpretation about Bomber Command, so one not only

Bomber Command, so one not only Bomber Command, so one not only

gets his memories which does still gets his memories which does still

gets his memories which does still clearly quite fresh, but also his

clearly quite fresh, but also his commentary on those different

commentary on those different commentary on those different

interpretations. It is a very interpretations. It is a very

complex multi-layered interview. complex multi-layered interview.

complex multi-layered interview. He had witnessed the blitz of

He had witnessed the blitz of He had witnessed the blitz of

British cities, but the interviews British cities, but the interviews

British cities, but the interviews British cities, but the interviews

shows that Harris was arm barred. - shows that Harris was arm barred. -

shows that Harris was arm barred. - shows that Harris was arm barred. -

- and bowed. I remember the night - and bowed. I remember the night

- and bowed. I remember the night Guelph. You could see St Paul's

Guelph. You could see St Paul's Guelph. You could see St Paul's

standing out amongst the flames. I standing out amongst the flames. I

standing out amongst the flames. I standing out amongst the flames. I

said then, they are sowing the wind, said then, they are sowing the wind,

said then, they are sowing the wind, and they will reap the whirlwind.

and they will reap the whirlwind. and they will reap the whirlwind.

And they certainly dead. -- they So why was the bomber chief ordered

So why was the bomber chief ordered So why was the bomber chief ordered

to blast whole cities rather than to blast whole cities rather than

to blast whole cities rather than specific Nazi targets? Tony was

specific Nazi targets? Tony was specific Nazi targets? Tony was

able to find out. They weren't able to find out. They weren't

able to find out. They weren't hitting very much, and they

hitting very much, and they hitting very much, and they

certainly hadn't got very much to certainly hadn't got very much to

certainly hadn't got very much to hit things with. Harris also spoke

hit things with. Harris also spoke hit things with. Harris also spoke

of how vulnerable his bomber boys of how vulnerable his bomber boys

of how vulnerable his bomber boys were against the cannons of enemy

were against the cannons of enemy were against the cannons of enemy

fighters. Of course, the main fighters. Of course, the main

failure which existed almost failure which existed almost

failure which existed almost throughout the war was the

throughout the war was the throughout the war was the

miserable armament they had. The miserable armament they had. The

miserable armament they had. The miserable armament they had. The

303 bullet was about as much good 303 bullet was about as much good

303 bullet was about as much good against a modern fighter, or not

against a modern fighter, or not against a modern fighter, or not

much better, than using a pea- much better, than using a pea-

Harris soon replaced pea-shooters Harris soon replaced pea-shooters

Harris soon replaced pea-shooters with hundreds of heavy bombers.

with hundreds of heavy bombers. with hundreds of heavy bombers.

Night after night, they rolled out. Night after night, they rolled out.

Night after night, they rolled out. The missions cost 55,500 British

The missions cost 55,500 British The missions cost 55,500 British

airmen their lives. One question airmen their lives. One question

airmen their lives. One question airmen their lives. One question

above all had to be asked, and above all had to be asked, and

above all had to be asked, and Harris didn't duck the subject, of

Harris didn't duck the subject, of Harris didn't duck the subject, of

Harris didn't duck the subject, of what many regard as a city too far.

what many regard as a city too far. About half a million people died in

About half a million people died in About half a million people died in

the British and American air raids the British and American air raids

the British and American air raids on German cities, 25,000 in Dresden.

on German cities, 25,000 in Dresden. on German cities, 25,000 in Dresden.

Critics say Harris hit civilians Critics say Harris hit civilians

Critics say Harris hit civilians harder than Hitler's war machine,

harder than Hitler's war machine, harder than Hitler's war machine,

but he disagreed. The bombers kept but he disagreed. The bombers kept

but he disagreed. The bombers kept but he disagreed. The bombers kept

well over a million fit Germans out well over a million fit Germans out

well over a million fit Germans out well over a million fit Germans out

of the German army because of the of the German army because of the

bombing. Manning the anti-aircraft bombing. Manning the anti-aircraft

defences, making the ammunition, defences, making the ammunition,

and doing urgent repairs, The attack on Dresden disfigured

The attack on Dresden disfigured Bomber Command's fantastic three

Bomber Command's fantastic three Bomber Command's fantastic three

years of contribution. There is no years of contribution. There is no

years of contribution. There is no explanation of why Dresden had been

explanation of why Dresden had been explanation of why Dresden had been

explanation of why Dresden had been mounted in the first place. So that

mounted in the first place. So that mounted in the first place. So that

mounted in the first place. So that is what I'm trying to get behind -

is what I'm trying to get behind - is what I'm trying to get behind -

why Dresden? And Harris clarified why Dresden? And Harris clarified

why Dresden? And Harris clarified that Dresden was one of three

that Dresden was one of three that Dresden was one of three

that Dresden was one of three cities he was ordered to destroy to

cities he was ordered to destroy to cities he was ordered to destroy to

help the Russian assault on Germany. help the Russian assault on Germany.

help the Russian assault on Germany. The great thing about this

The great thing about this The great thing about this

particular interview is its length. particular interview is its length.

particular interview is its length. The subject clearly settles down,

The subject clearly settles down, The subject clearly settles down,

The subject clearly settles down, you get a sense of the emotion. You

you get a sense of the emotion. You you get a sense of the emotion. You

you get a sense of the emotion. You get a sense of the real person -

get a sense of the real person - get a sense of the real person -

this isn't just a few questions this isn't just a few questions

this isn't just a few questions fired during a news interview. This

fired during a news interview. This fired during a news interview. This

is an in-depth interview in which is an in-depth interview in which

is an in-depth interview in which is an in-depth interview in which

you get a flavour of the whole you get a flavour of the whole

you get a flavour of the whole person. I thought many times since

person. I thought many times since person. I thought many times since

person. I thought many times since I interviewed him - what was my

I interviewed him - what was my I interviewed him - what was my

summary of the man? Did that summary of the man? Did that

summary of the man? Did that summary of the man? Did that

interview change my view of him? It interview change my view of him? It

interview change my view of him? It interview change my view of him? It

did. Ruthless in the pursuit of an did. Ruthless in the pursuit of an

objective, utterly ruthless. objective, utterly ruthless.

objective, utterly ruthless. Primary concern is the interest of

Primary concern is the interest of Primary concern is the interest of

Britain, aware as he said, reaping Britain, aware as he said, reaping

Britain, aware as he said, reaping Britain, aware as he said, reaping

the whirlwind - but the novelty to the whirlwind - but the novelty to

the whirlwind - but the novelty to the whirlwind - but the novelty to

me was beneath that there was an me was beneath that there was an

me was beneath that there was an awareness of tragedy, an awareness

awareness of tragedy, an awareness awareness of tragedy, an awareness

of what damage he had inflicted. of what damage he had inflicted.

of what damage he had inflicted. And there was enormous sensitivity

And there was enormous sensitivity And there was enormous sensitivity

about the lives which he had about the lives which he had

Harris's recall and resolve were on Harris's recall and resolve were on

Harris's recall and resolve were on show throughout the 90 minute

show throughout the 90 minute show throughout the 90 minute

interview, but regret was not. interview, but regret was not.

interview, but regret was not. interview, but regret was not.

you had the time over again, would you had the time over again, would

you had the time over again, would you do anything differently? If I

you do anything differently? If I you do anything differently? If I

you do anything differently? If I had the same time over again, I

had the same time over again, I had the same time over again, I

had the same time over again, I would do the same thing. But I

would do the same thing. But I would do the same thing. But I

would do the same thing. But I would always hope not to have the

would always hope not to have the I thought that response was

I thought that response was I thought that response was

astonishing. I have to say, I astonishing. I have to say, I

astonishing. I have to say, I astonishing. I have to say, I

didn't expect him to say he would didn't expect him to say he would

do anything differently because do anything differently because

do anything differently because do anything differently because

Harris is not that kind of man. Harris is not that kind of man.

Harris is not that kind of man. What I liked particularly was his

I hope it's of some value to future I hope it's of some value to future

I hope it's of some value to future generations. Even if it only helps

generations. Even if it only helps generations. Even if it only helps

generations. Even if it only helps keep them keep out of these sort of

keep them keep out of these sort of keep them keep out of these sort of

keep them keep out of these sort of riots. I hope so, too.They never

riots. I hope so, too.They never riots. I hope so, too.They never

riots. I hope so, too.They never Actors such as Laurence Olivier and

Actors such as Laurence Olivier and Actors such as Laurence Olivier and

Ralph Richardson have performed at Ralph Richardson have performed at

Ralph Richardson have performed at Birmingham Rep, but for the last

Birmingham Rep, but for the last two-and-a-half years the theatre

two-and-a-half years the theatre two-and-a-half years the theatre

two-and-a-half years the theatre has been without a home due to a

has been without a home due to a multi-million pound development.

multi-million pound development. multi-million pound development.

Now, as it celebrates its centenary, Now, as it celebrates its centenary,

Now, as it celebrates its centenary, the Rep is coming home. BBC

the Rep is coming home. BBC Coventry and Warwickshire's Phil

Coventry and Warwickshire's Phil Work on the Rep on Birmingham's

Work on the Rep on Birmingham's Work on the Rep on Birmingham's

Broad Street has been underway for Broad Street has been underway for

Broad Street has been underway for two years now. And with a

two years now. And with a two years now. And with a

completion date in sight, I am completion date in sight, I am

completion date in sight, I am completion date in sight, I am

being allowed to take a look behind being allowed to take a look behind

being allowed to take a look behind the scenes. The �188 million scheme

the scenes. The �188 million scheme the scenes. The �188 million scheme

the scenes. The �188 million scheme will connect the Rep to the new

will connect the Rep to the new will connect the Rep to the new

Birmingham Library next door. Like Birmingham Library next door. Like

Birmingham Library next door. Like with any construction site, you've

with any construction site, you've with any construction site, you've

with any construction site, you've got to have the right gear. So,

got to have the right gear. So, got to have the right gear. So,

got to have the right gear. So, I've got shoes, the jacket, the hat,

I've got shoes, the jacket, the hat, I've got shoes, the jacket, the hat,

I've got shoes, the jacket, the hat, got the glasses, I have never been

got the glasses, I have never been got the glasses, I have never been

got the glasses, I have never been on a building site of the sort of

on a building site of the sort of on a building site of the sort of

scale before. How many people work scale before. How many people work

This is a big year for the Rep. This is a big year for the Rep.

This is a big year for the Rep. Aside from the new building, the

Aside from the new building, the Theatre celebrates its 100th

Theatre celebrates its 100th Theatre celebrates its 100th

birthday this week, and it's the birthday this week, and it's the

birthday this week, and it's the finishing touches that matter now

finishing touches that matter now finishing touches that matter now

finishing touches that matter now in the Rep revamp. This might not

in the Rep revamp. This might not look particularly exciting, these

look particularly exciting, these look particularly exciting, these

look particularly exciting, these doors, but for me they mark the

doors, but for me they mark the doors, but for me they mark the

beginning of the end. Once the beginning of the end. Once the

beginning of the end. Once the doors start going in, you know

doors start going in, you know doors start going in, you know

doors start going in, you know you're almost at the end of the

you're almost at the end of the you're almost at the end of the

project. They might look a bit project. They might look a bit

project. They might look a bit strange but it's all good news.

strange but it's all good news. strange but it's all good news.

strange but it's all good news. Most of the building is getting a

Most of the building is getting a Most of the building is getting a

facelift. But some parts will facelift. But some parts will

facelift. But some parts will remain the same. The main

remain the same. The main remain the same. The main

auditorium is being preserved. The auditorium is being preserved. The

auditorium is being preserved. The old will sit alongside the new.

old will sit alongside the new. old will sit alongside the new.

This is the new studio theatre This is the new studio theatre

This is the new studio theatre which is a shared facility between

which is a shared facility between which is a shared facility between

which is a shared facility between the library and the theatre. A very

the library and the theatre. A very the library and the theatre. A very

important part of the development important part of the development

important part of the development for us, because we've always wanted

for us, because we've always wanted for us, because we've always wanted

for us, because we've always wanted a 300 seat space that allows us to

a 300 seat space that allows us to a 300 seat space that allows us to

produce work of a different scale produce work of a different scale

produce work of a different scale produce work of a different scale

to the main house and the current to the main house and the current

to the main house and the current studio. So we are really excited

studio. So we are really excited studio. So we are really excited

about this particular part of the about this particular part of the

about this particular part of the development. Has it been difficult

development. Has it been difficult development. Has it been difficult

for you to plan your hundredth for you to plan your hundredth

anniversary when you're not anniversary when you're not

anniversary when you're not actually in the building? We are

actually in the building? We are actually in the building? We are

actually in the building? We are ready to come home. We have really

ready to come home. We have really ready to come home. We have really

enjoyed our time out of the enjoyed our time out of the

enjoyed our time out of the building, it's been exciting, but

building, it's been exciting, but building, it's been exciting, but

we are looking forward to getting we are looking forward to getting

we are looking forward to getting back in the building, revving up,

back in the building, revving up, back in the building, revving up,

bringing the audiences back in and bringing the audiences back in and

Backstage, rehearsals for the Backstage, rehearsals for the

Backstage, rehearsals for the Backstage, rehearsals for the

production Aye What A Rat are in production Aye What A Rat are in

production Aye What A Rat are in full flow and the wardrobe

full flow and the wardrobe full flow and the wardrobe

department are working flat out, department are working flat out,

hand-finishing the ornate costumes. hand-finishing the ornate costumes.

hand-finishing the ornate costumes. But despite the focus being heavily

But despite the focus being heavily But despite the focus being heavily

But despite the focus being heavily on the future, there is still time

on the future, there is still time on the future, there is still time

on the future, there is still time to look back over 100 years, and

to look back over 100 years, and to look back over 100 years, and

to look back over 100 years, and find out a bit more about the Rep's

find out a bit more about the Rep's legendary founder, Sir Barry

legendary founder, Sir Barry legendary founder, Sir Barry

Jackson. I've come to Birmingham Jackson. I've come to Birmingham

Jackson. I've come to Birmingham Jackson. I've come to Birmingham

Museum and Art Gallery to find out Museum and Art Gallery to find out

Museum and Art Gallery to find out more. So here's the man himself,

more. So here's the man himself, more. So here's the man himself,

more. So here's the man himself, Barry Jackson. Who was he, how did

Barry Jackson. Who was he, how did Barry Jackson. Who was he, how did

he come to start the Birmingham he come to start the Birmingham

he come to start the Birmingham Rep? He came from a wealthy

Rep? He came from a wealthy Rep? He came from a wealthy

Birmingham family which had a Birmingham family which had a

tradition of amateur theatre tradition of amateur theatre

tradition of amateur theatre theatricals, but he also went to

theatricals, but he also went to theatricals, but he also went to

the theatre, was taken to the the theatre, was taken to the

the theatre, was taken to the the theatre, was taken to the

theatre, so he came out of a rich theatre, so he came out of a rich

theatre, so he came out of a rich theatre, so he came out of a rich

background. How did he come to form background. How did he come to form

background. How did he come to form background. How did he come to form

the Birmingham Rep? It's part of a the Birmingham Rep? It's part of a

the Birmingham Rep? It's part of a the Birmingham Rep? It's part of a

movement that gets going at the end movement that gets going at the end

movement that gets going at the end movement that gets going at the end

of the 19th century into the 20th of the 19th century into the 20th

century, pockets of ambitious century, pockets of ambitious

theatre radicals, people like theatre radicals, people like

theatre radicals, people like Bernard Shaw, or Yeats, over in

Bernard Shaw, or Yeats, over in Bernard Shaw, or Yeats, over in

Dublin. Who are interested in Dublin. Who are interested in

Dublin. Who are interested in Dublin. Who are interested in

theatre that is good for you. theatre that is good for you.

theatre that is good for you. shared his vision for great theatre

shared his vision for great theatre shared his vision for great theatre

shared his vision for great theatre with the BBC in the 1930s.

with the BBC in the 1930s. with the BBC in the 1930s.

with the BBC in the 1930s. there are two ways of telling a

there are two ways of telling a there are two ways of telling a

there are two ways of telling a story. One is to repeat the same

story. One is to repeat the same story. One is to repeat the same

story. One is to repeat the same story over and over and over again.

story over and over and over again. story over and over and over again.

The second method is to tell The second method is to tell

The second method is to tell different stories to the same

different stories to the same different stories to the same

audience. The first method of audience. The first method of

audience. The first method of storytelling appears to me to be

storytelling appears to me to be storytelling appears to me to be

both tedious and dull. The second, both tedious and dull. The second,

both tedious and dull. The second, lively and entertaining. And it is

lively and entertaining. And it is lively and entertaining. And it is

to the latter that the word to the latter that the word

repertory applies. Sir Barry repertory applies. Sir Barry

repertory applies. Sir Barry repertory applies. Sir Barry

clearly had a huge passion for the clearly had a huge passion for the

clearly had a huge passion for the theatre but it was hard work

theatre but it was hard work theatre but it was hard work

getting Brummies through the doors. getting Brummies through the doors.

getting Brummies through the doors. The City Council took financial

The City Council took financial The City Council took financial

The City Council took financial control in 1935, but by that stage,

control in 1935, but by that stage, control in 1935, but by that stage,

control in 1935, but by that stage, the Rep had cost Sir Barry tens of

the Rep had cost Sir Barry tens of the Rep had cost Sir Barry tens of

thousands of pounds. What would he thousands of pounds. What would he

thousands of pounds. What would he thousands of pounds. What would he

make of the changes and the new make of the changes and the new

make of the changes and the new repertory theatre as it is 100

repertory theatre as it is 100 repertory theatre as it is 100

repertory theatre as it is 100 years on? I think on balance, he

years on? I think on balance, he years on? I think on balance, he

years on? I think on balance, he would look at what's been done and

would look at what's been done and would look at what's been done and

would look at what's been done and what's been achieved and I think he

what's been achieved and I think he what's been achieved and I think he

would be very pleased. The large- would be very pleased. The large-

would be very pleased. The large- scale building work is breathing

scale building work is breathing scale building work is breathing

scale building work is breathing new life into the theatre. But as

new life into the theatre. But as new life into the theatre. But as

new life into the theatre. But as little as 44 years ago, none of

little as 44 years ago, none of little as 44 years ago, none of

little as 44 years ago, none of this was even here. We found this

this was even here. We found this this was even here. We found this

archive footage from 1969 of the archive footage from 1969 of the

archive footage from 1969 of the then-Lord Mayor starting work right

then-Lord Mayor starting work right then-Lord Mayor starting work right

here on Broad Street. The theatre here on Broad Street. The theatre

here on Broad Street. The theatre here on Broad Street. The theatre

has come a long way since then, but has come a long way since then, but

has come a long way since then, but this was never the Rep's original

this was never the Rep's original this was never the Rep's original

home. In fact, it all started home. In fact, it all started

home. In fact, it all started Less than a mile away, it was here

Less than a mile away, it was here Less than a mile away, it was here

Less than a mile away, it was here at the old Rep that Barry Jackson

at the old Rep that Barry Jackson at the old Rep that Barry Jackson

opened his ambitious new theatre, opened his ambitious new theatre,

opened his ambitious new theatre, and perhaps rightly so, this will

and perhaps rightly so, this will and perhaps rightly so, this will

be the stage for its 100th be the stage for its 100th

be the stage for its 100th anniversary. Over the years the

anniversary. Over the years the anniversary. Over the years the

theatre has touched the lives of theatre has touched the lives of

theatre has touched the lives of many people, like local playwright

many people, like local playwright many people, like local playwright

and writer David Edgar. What's your and writer David Edgar. What's your

and writer David Edgar. What's your earliest memory of the Rep theatre?

earliest memory of the Rep theatre? earliest memory of the Rep theatre?

earliest memory of the Rep theatre? I came here when I was three and

I came here when I was three and I came here when I was three and

three-quarter years old, and I three-quarter years old, and I

three-quarter years old, and I remember Beauty And the Beast

remember Beauty And the Beast remember Beauty And the Beast

Christmas show - screamed the place Christmas show - screamed the place

Christmas show - screamed the place down! But then I gradually learnt

down! But then I gradually learnt down! But then I gradually learnt

down! But then I gradually learnt it was all pretend and I met actors,

it was all pretend and I met actors, it was all pretend and I met actors,

was taken backstage to meet them was taken backstage to meet them

was taken backstage to meet them and so on, very exciting. That

and so on, very exciting. That and so on, very exciting. That

fired my inspiration for theatre, fired my inspiration for theatre,

fired my inspiration for theatre, fired my inspiration for theatre,

first thinking I'd love to be an first thinking I'd love to be an

first thinking I'd love to be an actor, realising I wasn't very good

actor, realising I wasn't very good actor, realising I wasn't very good

actor, realising I wasn't very good at that so I became a writer.

at that so I became a writer. at that so I became a writer.

how did your professional career how did your professional career

how did your professional career how did your professional career

start at the Rep? When the new Rep start at the Rep? When the new Rep

start at the Rep? When the new Rep opened, it had a studio theatre,

opened, it had a studio theatre, opened, it had a studio theatre,

opened, it had a studio theatre, that was to do new plays, which had

that was to do new plays, which had that was to do new plays, which had

that was to do new plays, which had been a tradition before the war but

been a tradition before the war but been a tradition before the war but

became an important part of what became an important part of what

became an important part of what became an important part of what

the new Rep was doing. I was the the new Rep was doing. I was the

the new Rep was doing. I was the the new Rep was doing. I was the

first original new play to be done first original new play to be done

first original new play to be done in the studio theatre, and other

in the studio theatre, and other in the studio theatre, and other

new place through the Seventies, new place through the Seventies,

new place through the Seventies, new place through the Seventies,

then I graduated to the main house. then I graduated to the main house.

then I graduated to the main house. then I graduated to the main house.

then I graduated to the main house. It is not just the stage of the old

It is not just the stage of the old It is not just the stage of the old

It is not just the stage of the old And here it is. The steps!I

And here it is. The steps!I And here it is. The steps!I

literally owe the Birmingham Rep literally owe the Birmingham Rep

literally owe the Birmingham Rep everything, my parents met here. My

everything, my parents met here. My everything, my parents met here. My

mother was an acting student, my mother was an acting student, my

mother was an acting student, my father was an actor and stage

father was an actor and stage father was an actor and stage

father was an actor and stage manager, he came down the steps and

manager, he came down the steps and manager, he came down the steps and

by family legend said, "you're by family legend said, "you're

by family legend said, "you're late". Then they acted together for

late". Then they acted together for late". Then they acted together for

two years, doing tiny parts and two years, doing tiny parts and

two years, doing tiny parts and stage-managing and walking on, bits

stage-managing and walking on, bits stage-managing and walking on, bits

stage-managing and walking on, bits and pieces, then the war broke out

and pieces, then the war broke out and pieces, then the war broke out

and pieces, then the war broke out and they kept in touch and married

and they kept in touch and married and they kept in touch and married

and they kept in touch and married in 1943. The Rep was a launchpad

in 1943. The Rep was a launchpad in 1943. The Rep was a launchpad

in 1943. The Rep was a launchpad for up and coming actors and Sir

for up and coming actors and Sir for up and coming actors and Sir

Laurence Olivier made his debut Laurence Olivier made his debut

Laurence Olivier made his debut right here in 1926. 'Birmingham is

right here in 1926. 'Birmingham is right here in 1926. 'Birmingham is

so marvellous. I remembered how so marvellous. I remembered how

so marvellous. I remembered how so marvellous. I remembered how

marvellous they were to me when I marvellous they were to me when I

marvellous they were to me when I marvellous they were to me when I

marvellous they were to me when I was a kid of 18 and 19, playing at

was a kid of 18 and 19, playing at the Repc. Frightfully intelligent,

the Repc. Frightfully intelligent, warm, glowing, marvellous audience'.

warm, glowing, marvellous audience'. warm, glowing, marvellous audience'.

Sir Laurence performed at the Rep Sir Laurence performed at the Rep

Sir Laurence performed at the Rep regularly over a three-year period

regularly over a three-year period regularly over a three-year period

regularly over a three-year period and left behind a memento which lay

and left behind a memento which lay and left behind a memento which lay

hidden for years. In 1940, during hidden for years. In 1940, during

hidden for years. In 1940, during the Birmingham Blitz, the Rep's

the Birmingham Blitz, the Rep's the Birmingham Blitz, the Rep's

wardrobe building was destroyed. 30 wardrobe building was destroyed. 30

wardrobe building was destroyed. 30 years of sets and costumes were

years of sets and costumes were years of sets and costumes were

lost. As a young trainee actor, lost. As a young trainee actor,

lost. As a young trainee actor, Margaret Walden was sent to clear

Margaret Walden was sent to clear Margaret Walden was sent to clear

out the flooded basement where she out the flooded basement where she

out the flooded basement where she made a shock discovery. I found

made a shock discovery. I found made a shock discovery. I found

this script that had been hand- this script that had been hand-

this script that had been hand- written by Laurence Olivier of a

written by Laurence Olivier of a written by Laurence Olivier of a

written by Laurence Olivier of a play that he had been in with a

play that he had been in with a play that he had been in with a

play that he had been in with a very small part, and I got a thing

very small part, and I got a thing very small part, and I got a thing

about Laurence Olivier at the time about Laurence Olivier at the time

about Laurence Olivier at the time and I thought, nobody wants that,

and I thought, nobody wants that, and I thought, nobody wants that,

and I thought, nobody wants that, and I thought, nobody wants that,

it's a shame to throw it away. So I it's a shame to throw it away. So I

it's a shame to throw it away. So I it's a shame to throw it away. So I

purloined it. I stole it. For want purloined it. I stole it. For want

purloined it. I stole it. For want purloined it. I stole it. For want

of a better word! Aged just 16, of a better word! Aged just 16,

of a better word! Aged just 16, Margaret had been snapped up to

Margaret had been snapped up to Margaret had been snapped up to

join the Rep's theatre school. An join the Rep's theatre school. An

join the Rep's theatre school. An experience she would never forget.

experience she would never forget. experience she would never forget.

experience she would never forget. It was just like being in a

It was just like being in a perpetual sweetshop, it was

perpetual sweetshop, it was perpetual sweetshop, it was

absolutely lovely. I just loved absolutely lovely. I just loved

absolutely lovely. I just loved absolutely lovely. I just loved

every minute of it. It opened a new every minute of it. It opened a new

every minute of it. It opened a new every minute of it. It opened a new

world to me, a different sort of world to me, a different sort of

world to me, a different sort of world, I loved the theatre ever

world, I loved the theatre ever world, I loved the theatre ever

world, I loved the theatre ever since. So the Rep is ready to come

since. So the Rep is ready to come since. So the Rep is ready to come

since. So the Rep is ready to come home. And who knows? They may just

home. And who knows? They may just home. And who knows? They may just

Well, that's it for tonight, but Well, that's it for tonight, but

Well, that's it for tonight, but don't forget you can find more

don't forget you can find more don't forget you can find more

information about any of the films information about any of the films

information about any of the films on tonight's programme on our

on tonight's programme on our on tonight's programme on our

Facebook page. From the RAF Museum, If you've been affected by any of