18/02/2013 Inside Out Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


18/02/2013

The story of the reunion between two men whose lives were changed by the Hillsborough tragedy.


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Hello and welcome to Inside Out, Hello and welcome to Inside Out,

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Hello and welcome to Inside Out, where tonight we are at

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where tonight we are at Hillsborough Faure special

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Hillsborough Faure special Hillsborough Faure special

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programme. It is nearly a quarter programme. It is nearly a quarter

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programme. It is nearly a quarter of a century since this football

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of a century since this football of a century since this football

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stadium saw the most awful tragedy. stadium saw the most awful tragedy.

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stadium saw the most awful tragedy. 96 people died in the Hillsborough

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96 people died in the Hillsborough 96 people died in the Hillsborough

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disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

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disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

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there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

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there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

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He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

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He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

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them and the Police -- it lead. them and the Police -- it lead.

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them and the Police -- it lead. Tonight we bring you the remarkable

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Tonight we bring you the remarkable Tonight we bring you the remarkable

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Tonight we bring you the remarkable story of two men on the opposite

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story of two men on the opposite story of two men on the opposite

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sides of the divide. They are sides of the divide. They are

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sides of the divide. They are preparing to meet for the first

:00:49.:00:59.
:00:59.:00:59.

preparing to meet for the first The key would have been 39, and

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The key would have been 39, and The key would have been 39, and

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The key would have been 39, and Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

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Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

:01:04.:01:05.

Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky would have been 39. They may have

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would have been 39. They may have would have been 39. They may have

:01:07.:01:09.

had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

:01:09.:01:10.

had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

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I have missed out on paying for a I have missed out on paying for a

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I have missed out on paying for a couple of weddings, and grand kids.

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couple of weddings, and grand kids. couple of weddings, and grand kids.

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couple of weddings, and grand kids. One of the things that is the

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One of the things that is the One of the things that is the

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One of the things that is the hardest to come to terms with is

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hardest to come to terms with is hardest to come to terms with is

:01:19.:01:21.

the loss of both opportunities for the loss of both opportunities for

:01:21.:01:22.

the loss of both opportunities for them to have fulfilled their

:01:22.:01:27.

them to have fulfilled their them to have fulfilled their

:01:27.:01:28.

ambitions and dreams. So many ambitions and dreams. So many

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ambitions and dreams. So many futures were cut short that day.

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futures were cut short that day. futures were cut short that day.

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Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

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Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

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police for the loss of his two police for the loss of his two

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police for the loss of his two daughters. They were crushed to

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daughters. They were crushed to daughters. They were crushed to

:01:37.:01:38.

death in the Leppings Lane End. death in the Leppings Lane End.

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death in the Leppings Lane End. Despite his anger and bitterness,

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Despite his anger and bitterness, Despite his anger and bitterness,

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Despite his anger and bitterness, he wrote a letter to commend an

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he wrote a letter to commend an he wrote a letter to commend an

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he wrote a letter to commend an officer who tried in vain to save

:01:44.:01:46.

officer who tried in vain to save officer who tried in vain to save

:01:46.:01:49.

the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

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the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

:01:50.:01:51.

What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

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What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

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What he did was awful for him, but I see it as being a hero for me. I

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I see it as being a hero for me. I I see it as being a hero for me. I

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I see it as being a hero for me. I need to say that, publicly. I did

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need to say that, publicly. I did need to say that, publicly. I did

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need to say that, publicly. I did what a lot of police officers did

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what a lot of police officers did what a lot of police officers did

:02:02.:02:04.

on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

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on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

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less. You just try to do your best less. You just try to do your best

:02:07.:02:09.

in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

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in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

:02:10.:02:11.

nearly a quarter of a century later, nearly a quarter of a century later,

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nearly a quarter of a century later, Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

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Trevor Hicks wants to meet that Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

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officer once more. I am often officer once more. I am often

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officer once more. I am often betrayed as someone who hates

:02:18.:02:19.

betrayed as someone who hates betrayed as someone who hates

:02:19.:02:20.

policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

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policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

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Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

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Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

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that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

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that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

:02:27.:02:27.

that. As far as I'm concerned, he was a hero of a bobby on the day.

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was a hero of a bobby on the day. was a hero of a bobby on the day.

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This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved

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This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved father, meeting the man who happens

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father, meeting the man who happens father, meeting the man who happens

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father, meeting the man who happens to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

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to be PC Magennis, to thank him for to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

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to be PC Magennis, to thank him for what he did on that date -- PC

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what he did on that date -- PC what he did on that date -- PC

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what he did on that date -- PC McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

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McGuinness. It is as simple as that. McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

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McGuinness. It is as simple as that. If I can bring one iota of comfort

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If I can bring one iota of comfort If I can bring one iota of comfort

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If I can bring one iota of comfort to a man who has lost his daughters

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to a man who has lost his daughters to a man who has lost his daughters

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in those circumstances, it is worth As well as changing the face of our

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As well as changing the face of our As well as changing the face of our

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national game, Hillsborough or left national game, Hillsborough or left

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national game, Hillsborough or left an indelible stain on the

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an indelible stain on the reputation of South Yorkshire

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reputation of South Yorkshire police, whose officers were

:03:04.:03:04.

police, whose officers were police, whose officers were

:03:04.:03:05.

responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

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responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

:03:09.:03:12.

of the capacity crowd on April 15th, of the capacity crowd on April 15th,

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of the capacity crowd on April 15th, 1989. The actions of a young

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1989. The actions of a young 1989. The actions of a young

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1989. The actions of a young constable on duty that day tell a

:03:16.:03:17.

constable on duty that day tell a different story from the

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different story from the catastrophic failures higher Rupp

:03:19.:03:20.

catastrophic failures higher Rupp catastrophic failures higher Rupp

:03:20.:03:22.

catastrophic failures higher Rupp in the command chain. -- higher up.

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in the command chain. -- higher up. in the command chain. -- higher up.

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in the command chain. -- higher up. As one of his final shifts in

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As one of his final shifts in As one of his final shifts in

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As one of his final shifts in uniform before taking up a post in

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uniform before taking up a post in uniform before taking up a post in

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CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

:03:31.:03:32.

CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

:03:32.:03:33.

brought in to help police the FA brought in to help police the FA

:03:33.:03:35.

Cup semi-final between Liverpool Cup semi-final between Liverpool

:03:35.:03:37.

Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. He has now

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and Nottingham Forest. He has now and Nottingham Forest. He has now

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retired from the force after rising retired from the force after rising

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retired from the force after rising through the ranks to become a

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through the ranks to become a through the ranks to become a

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senior detective. Having led murder senior detective. Having led murder

:03:44.:03:46.

senior detective. Having led murder inquiries, he routinely dealt with

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inquiries, he routinely dealt with inquiries, he routinely dealt with

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trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

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trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

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left a lasting mark. There is never left a lasting mark. There is never

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left a lasting mark. There is never such a thing as closure. Some

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such a thing as closure. Some such a thing as closure. Some

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such a thing as closure. Some things you never get over. Some of

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things you never get over. Some of things you never get over. Some of

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things you never get over. Some of the images I have of Victoria, the

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the images I have of Victoria, the the images I have of Victoria, the

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memory of dealing with Trevor. memory of dealing with Trevor.

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memory of dealing with Trevor. Those images stick with you, but

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Those images stick with you, but Those images stick with you, but

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Those images stick with you, but over time, you learn to cope and I

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over time, you learn to cope and I over time, you learn to cope and I

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over time, you learn to cope and I was still a young man. I have not

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was still a young man. I have not was still a young man. I have not

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was still a young man. I have not lost any one then. How are we

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lost any one then. How are we lost any one then. How are we

:04:17.:04:19.

doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful

:04:19.:04:20.

businessman, owner and managing businessman, owner and managing

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businessman, owner and managing director of a thriving company

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director of a thriving company director of a thriving company

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supplying fittings to the pub trade. supplying fittings to the pub trade.

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supplying fittings to the pub trade. But it is Hillsborough that has

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But it is Hillsborough that has But it is Hillsborough that has

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But it is Hillsborough that has defined his life, both in and out

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defined his life, both in and out defined his life, both in and out

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defined his life, both in and out of the public eye. He was chairman

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of the public eye. He was chairman of the public eye. He was chairman

:04:31.:04:31.

of the family support group that of the family support group that

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of the family support group that fought for the truth about the

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fought for the truth about the fought for the truth about the

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disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

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disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

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chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

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chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

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new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

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new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

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new life. I have tried to make the best of a bad job. It was a sunny

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best of a bad job. It was a sunny best of a bad job. It was a sunny

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best of a bad job. It was a sunny day. It was a normal match build-up.

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day. It was a normal match build-up. day. It was a normal match build-up.

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day. It was a normal match build-up. It was a good occasion. We were all

:04:54.:04:55.

It was a good occasion. We were all It was a good occasion. We were all

:04:55.:04:57.

looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

:04:57.:04:58.

looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

:04:58.:04:59.

and his then wife Jenny had tickets and his then wife Jenny had tickets

:04:59.:05:01.

and his then wife Jenny had tickets in different parts of the ground.

:05:01.:05:02.

in different parts of the ground. in different parts of the ground.

:05:02.:05:03.

Victoria and Sarah went with their Victoria and Sarah went with their

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Victoria and Sarah went with their father to the Leppings Lane End.

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father to the Leppings Lane End. father to the Leppings Lane End.

:05:05.:05:08.

But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

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But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

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But they were separated from him. The girls and I were at the head of

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The girls and I were at the head of The girls and I were at the head of

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The girls and I were at the head of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

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the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

:05:13.:05:15.

coffee. They went off down the coffee. They went off down the

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coffee. They went off down the tunnel and that, really, was pure

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tunnel and that, really, was pure tunnel and that, really, was pure

:05:20.:05:20.

accident. So with the game under accident. So with the game under

:05:20.:05:22.

accident. So with the game under way it soon became apparent that

:05:22.:05:23.

way it soon became apparent that way it soon became apparent that

:05:23.:05:25.

something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

:05:25.:05:27.

something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

:05:27.:05:28.

This was going to be some sort of This was going to be some sort of

:05:28.:05:29.

This was going to be some sort of public order situation, so you were

:05:29.:05:30.

public order situation, so you were public order situation, so you were

:05:30.:05:31.

public order situation, so you were in a frame of mind for that. I

:05:31.:05:33.

in a frame of mind for that. I immediately realised that wasn't

:05:33.:05:34.

immediately realised that wasn't immediately realised that wasn't

:05:35.:05:37.

immediately realised that wasn't the case. When I saw bodies laid by

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the case. When I saw bodies laid by the case. When I saw bodies laid by

:05:38.:05:39.

that side of me, fans desperately that side of me, fans desperately

:05:39.:05:41.

that side of me, fans desperately trying to save people, police

:05:41.:05:42.

trying to save people, police trying to save people, police

:05:42.:05:44.

officers desperately trying to save officers desperately trying to save

:05:44.:05:45.

officers desperately trying to save people. You don't have time to

:05:45.:05:47.

people. You don't have time to people. You don't have time to

:05:47.:05:51.

think. You just think, this is think. You just think, this is

:05:51.:05:52.

think. You just think, this is unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

:05:52.:05:53.

unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

:05:53.:05:54.

or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

:05:54.:05:55.

or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

:05:55.:05:57.

I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

:05:57.:05:58.

I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

:05:58.:06:00.

way onto the pitch through one of way onto the pitch through one of

:06:00.:06:01.

way onto the pitch through one of the gate. The police officers were

:06:01.:06:03.

the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

:06:03.:06:04.

the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

:06:04.:06:04.

not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

:06:04.:06:06.

not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

:06:06.:06:07.

not for stopping. That is when I not for stopping. That is when I

:06:07.:06:10.

not for stopping. That is when I first became aware of Trevor. I

:06:10.:06:11.

first became aware of Trevor. I first became aware of Trevor. I

:06:11.:06:12.

remember the words father. He kept remember the words father. He kept

:06:12.:06:17.

remember the words father. He kept saying he was their father. And

:06:17.:06:18.

saying he was their father. And saying he was their father. And

:06:19.:06:20.

then we tried to give resuscitation, then we tried to give resuscitation,

:06:20.:06:23.

then we tried to give resuscitation, as best we could. With medics

:06:23.:06:25.

as best we could. With medics as best we could. With medics

:06:25.:06:26.

working on Sarah alongside them, working on Sarah alongside them,

:06:27.:06:28.

working on Sarah alongside them, together Peter and Trevor tried to

:06:28.:06:30.

together Peter and Trevor tried to together Peter and Trevor tried to

:06:30.:06:32.

revive Victoria. We picked her up revive Victoria. We picked her up

:06:32.:06:34.

revive Victoria. We picked her up and ran towards the ambulance. We

:06:34.:06:35.

and ran towards the ambulance. We and ran towards the ambulance. We

:06:35.:06:36.

and ran towards the ambulance. We put her in the ambulance. And then

:06:36.:06:37.

put her in the ambulance. And then put her in the ambulance. And then

:06:37.:06:38.

put her in the ambulance. And then I turned round to get Sarah, if you

:06:38.:06:42.

I turned round to get Sarah, if you I turned round to get Sarah, if you

:06:42.:06:43.

I turned round to get Sarah, if you like. As I say, this was the low

:06:44.:06:45.

like. As I say, this was the low like. As I say, this was the low

:06:45.:06:46.

like. As I say, this was the low point of my life probably when I am

:06:46.:06:51.

point of my life probably when I am point of my life probably when I am

:06:51.:06:52.

faced with the decision. Quickly faced with the decision. Quickly

:06:52.:06:53.

faced with the decision. Quickly other people were putting others

:06:53.:06:54.

other people were putting others other people were putting others

:06:54.:06:56.

other people were putting others into an ambulance, so do I go, or

:06:56.:06:57.

into an ambulance, so do I go, or into an ambulance, so do I go, or

:06:57.:06:58.

do I stay? Trevor took the do I stay? Trevor took the

:06:59.:07:00.

do I stay? Trevor took the agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:00.:07:01.

agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:01.:07:02.

agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

:07:02.:07:03.

He and Peter we in the back of the He and Peter we in the back of the

:07:03.:07:04.

ambulance desperately trying to ambulance desperately trying to

:07:04.:07:07.

ambulance desperately trying to save Viktoria's life. We did feel

:07:07.:07:08.

save Viktoria's life. We did feel save Viktoria's life. We did feel

:07:08.:07:10.

save Viktoria's life. We did feel there was a post -- pulse. There

:07:10.:07:11.

there was a post -- pulse. There there was a post -- pulse. There

:07:11.:07:13.

there was a post -- pulse. There was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

:07:13.:07:16.

was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

:07:16.:07:17.

have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

:07:17.:07:18.

have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

:07:18.:07:19.

who had already passed away in the who had already passed away in the

:07:20.:07:20.

who had already passed away in the ambulance. We arrived at the

:07:21.:07:23.

ambulance. We arrived at the Northern General, and Peter

:07:23.:07:24.

Northern General, and Peter Northern General, and Peter

:07:24.:07:26.

Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

:07:26.:07:29.

Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

:07:29.:07:30.

in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

:07:30.:07:32.

in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

:07:32.:07:32.

her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

:07:32.:07:34.

her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

:07:34.:07:37.

came in and was asked to step came in and was asked to step

:07:37.:07:38.

came in and was asked to step outside. I get thrown out, because

:07:38.:07:40.

outside. I get thrown out, because outside. I get thrown out, because

:07:40.:07:41.

outside. I get thrown out, because they wanted to attend to the key. I

:07:41.:07:44.

they wanted to attend to the key. I they wanted to attend to the key. I

:07:44.:07:45.

remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

:07:45.:07:46.

remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

:07:46.:07:50.

them. I left it to the medical team them. I left it to the medical team

:07:50.:07:51.

them. I left it to the medical team and gave what pieces of information

:07:51.:07:52.

and gave what pieces of information and gave what pieces of information

:07:53.:07:53.

and gave what pieces of information they were asking me. At some point,

:07:53.:07:56.

they were asking me. At some point, they were asking me. At some point,

:07:56.:07:58.

they were asking me. At some point, they stopped and said she had gone.

:07:58.:08:03.

they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

:08:03.:08:04.

they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

:08:04.:08:05.

And I was faced with the sad job of And I was faced with the sad job of

:08:05.:08:08.

And I was faced with the sad job of informing Trevor, of course. Peter

:08:08.:08:09.

informing Trevor, of course. Peter informing Trevor, of course. Peter

:08:09.:08:10.

was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

:08:10.:08:11.

was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

:08:11.:08:11.

opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

:08:11.:08:12.

opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

:08:13.:08:14.

me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

:08:14.:08:15.

me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

:08:15.:08:16.

concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

:08:16.:08:17.

concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

:08:17.:08:20.

he did a very tough job very well. he did a very tough job very well.

:08:20.:08:21.

he did a very tough job very well. He was inconsolable. There is going

:08:22.:08:22.

He was inconsolable. There is going He was inconsolable. There is going

:08:22.:08:24.

He was inconsolable. There is going to be no trigger that is changing

:08:24.:08:26.

to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

:08:26.:08:30.

to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

:08:30.:08:32.

that. I think I gave him a hug, and that. I think I gave him a hug, and

:08:32.:08:32.

that. I think I gave him a hug, and then everything else kicked in.

:08:32.:08:35.

then everything else kicked in. then everything else kicked in.

:08:35.:08:35.

Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

:08:35.:08:36.

Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

:08:36.:08:37.

were still being brought in and I were still being brought in and I

:08:37.:08:39.

were still being brought in and I was now beginning to realise the

:08:40.:08:41.

was now beginning to realise the was now beginning to realise the

:08:41.:08:43.

magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

:08:43.:08:44.

magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

:08:44.:08:44.

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

:08:44.:08:45.

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

:08:45.:08:46.

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, but as soon as he told me there was

:08:46.:08:47.

but as soon as he told me there was but as soon as he told me there was

:08:47.:08:49.

nothing else I could do for nothing else I could do for

:08:49.:08:51.

nothing else I could do for Victoria, my thoughts switched to

:08:51.:08:53.

Victoria, my thoughts switched to Victoria, my thoughts switched to

:08:53.:08:54.

Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

:08:54.:08:56.

Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

:08:56.:08:56.

be arriving any minute in one of be arriving any minute in one of

:08:56.:08:59.

be arriving any minute in one of the other ambulances. But she never

:08:59.:09:01.

the other ambulances. But she never the other ambulances. But she never

:09:01.:09:02.

the other ambulances. But she never did. Sarah's body was taken to the

:09:02.:09:04.

did. Sarah's body was taken to the did. Sarah's body was taken to the

:09:04.:09:04.

makeshift morgue at the football makeshift morgue at the football

:09:04.:09:05.

makeshift morgue at the football ground. This photograph of Trevor

:09:05.:09:08.

ground. This photograph of Trevor ground. This photograph of Trevor

:09:08.:09:10.

and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

:09:10.:09:11.

and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

:09:11.:09:12.

the match. It would be hours before the match. It would be hours before

:09:12.:09:13.

the match. It would be hours before their worst fears were confirmed. A

:09:13.:09:15.

their worst fears were confirmed. A their worst fears were confirmed. A

:09:15.:09:17.

mixed the trauma, Trevor never mixed the trauma, Trevor never

:09:17.:09:19.

mixed the trauma, Trevor never forgot Peter's support during that

:09:19.:09:21.

forgot Peter's support during that forgot Peter's support during that

:09:21.:09:22.

terrible time. Since the intense terrible time. Since the intense

:09:22.:09:23.

terrible time. Since the intense moments they shed here nearly 25

:09:23.:09:25.

moments they shed here nearly 25 moments they shed here nearly 25

:09:25.:09:27.

years ago, their paths have never years ago, their paths have never

:09:27.:09:28.

years ago, their paths have never crossed. -- they shed. Because of

:09:28.:09:29.

crossed. -- they shed. Because of crossed. -- they shed. Because of

:09:29.:09:31.

the bitter divide between the the bitter divide between the

:09:31.:09:31.

the bitter divide between the families and the police, he looked

:09:32.:09:35.

families and the police, he looked families and the police, he looked

:09:35.:09:36.

unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely they would. -- it looked

:09:37.:09:37.

unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely. That's because of two

:09:37.:09:39.

unlikely. That's because of two unlikely. That's because of two

:09:39.:09:42.

decades over which the family's decades over which the family's

:09:42.:09:44.

decades over which the family's pain has been increased by the

:09:44.:09:44.

pain has been increased by the pain has been increased by the

:09:45.:09:45.

anger of injustice. The government anger of injustice. The government

:09:46.:09:47.

anger of injustice. The government announced a public inquiry. Within

:09:47.:09:49.

announced a public inquiry. Within announced a public inquiry. Within

:09:49.:09:50.

days of the disaster, there were days of the disaster, there were

:09:50.:09:51.

days of the disaster, there were suggestions Liverpool fans were to

:09:51.:09:52.

suggestions Liverpool fans were to suggestions Liverpool fans were to

:09:52.:09:53.

blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

:09:53.:09:54.

blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

:09:54.:09:58.

turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

:09:58.:09:59.

turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

:09:59.:10:01.

without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

:10:01.:10:01.

without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

:10:01.:10:02.

when you are trying to control than when you are trying to control than

:10:02.:10:04.

when you are trying to control than number of people, and they refuse

:10:04.:10:05.

number of people, and they refuse number of people, and they refuse

:10:05.:10:07.

to be directed or guided in to be directed or guided in

:10:07.:10:08.

to be directed or guided in anything like an orderly fashion,

:10:08.:10:10.

anything like an orderly fashion, anything like an orderly fashion,

:10:10.:10:14.

that makes it almost impossible, an that makes it almost impossible, an

:10:14.:10:15.

almost uncontrollable. For the almost uncontrollable. For the

:10:15.:10:16.

almost uncontrollable. For the families, drawn together in grief,

:10:16.:10:17.

families, drawn together in grief, families, drawn together in grief,

:10:17.:10:18.

families, drawn together in grief, to hear such a version of events

:10:18.:10:19.

to hear such a version of events to hear such a version of events

:10:19.:10:20.

to hear such a version of events was too much to bear. They formed a

:10:21.:10:22.

was too much to bear. They formed a was too much to bear. They formed a

:10:22.:10:26.

support group, and Trevor Hicks support group, and Trevor Hicks

:10:26.:10:27.

became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

:10:27.:10:28.

became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

:10:28.:10:30.

Taylor is heading what could be the Taylor is heading what could be the

:10:30.:10:31.

public's biggest-ever public public's biggest-ever public

:10:31.:10:32.

public's biggest-ever public inquiry, and before opening the

:10:32.:10:33.

inquiry, and before opening the inquiry, and before opening the

:10:33.:10:34.

inquiry, and before opening the hearing he stopped in the foyer of

:10:34.:10:35.

hearing he stopped in the foyer of hearing he stopped in the foyer of

:10:35.:10:38.

Sheffield Town Hall to sign the Sheffield Town Hall to sign the

:10:39.:10:40.

remembrance book. The Taylor remembrance book. The Taylor

:10:40.:10:41.

remembrance book. The Taylor inquiry criticised the lack of

:10:41.:10:42.

inquiry criticised the lack of inquiry criticised the lack of

:10:42.:10:43.

police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

:10:43.:10:44.

police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

:10:44.:10:46.

that a large crowd had been able to that a large crowd had been able to

:10:46.:10:47.

that a large crowd had been able to gather outside the turnstiles. It

:10:47.:10:48.

gather outside the turnstiles. It gather outside the turnstiles. It

:10:48.:10:48.

gather outside the turnstiles. It was their decision to open a gate

:10:48.:10:50.

was their decision to open a gate was their decision to open a gate

:10:50.:10:51.

was their decision to open a gate to relieve the pressure, and it was

:10:51.:10:52.

to relieve the pressure, and it was to relieve the pressure, and it was

:10:52.:10:53.

their critical failure not to their critical failure not to

:10:53.:10:55.

their critical failure not to direct the fans already away from

:10:55.:10:57.

direct the fans already away from direct the fans already away from

:10:57.:10:58.

the overcrowded pens. No officers the overcrowded pens. No officers

:10:58.:11:00.

faced prosecution. South Yorkshire faced prosecution. South Yorkshire

:11:01.:11:01.

faced prosecution. South Yorkshire police accepted the criticisms but

:11:01.:11:03.

police accepted the criticisms but police accepted the criticisms but

:11:03.:11:04.

no action followed. The offer to no action followed. The offer to

:11:04.:11:11.

no action followed. The offer to resign was rejected. I am appalled.

:11:11.:11:12.

resign was rejected. I am appalled. resign was rejected. I am appalled.

:11:12.:11:12.

resign was rejected. I am appalled. We heard over the weekend there was

:11:12.:11:15.

We heard over the weekend there was We heard over the weekend there was

:11:15.:11:15.

a certain amount of sympathy for a certain amount of sympathy for

:11:15.:11:19.

a certain amount of sympathy for the personal position. We did not

:11:19.:11:20.

the personal position. We did not the personal position. We did not

:11:20.:11:21.

believe that even the sympathy believe that even the sympathy

:11:21.:11:23.

believe that even the sympathy could outweigh the South Yorkshire

:11:23.:11:24.

could outweigh the South Yorkshire could outweigh the South Yorkshire

:11:24.:11:25.

police authority having to face the police authority having to face the

:11:25.:11:26.

responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

:11:26.:11:35.

responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

:11:35.:11:35.

on the day. You are not empowered on the day. You are not empowered

:11:35.:11:40.

on the day. You are not empowered to make a contribution. Trevor

:11:40.:11:40.

to make a contribution. Trevor to make a contribution. Trevor

:11:41.:11:41.

Hicks gained a reputation as a Hicks gained a reputation as a

:11:41.:11:42.

Hicks gained a reputation as a dogged opponent of the force and

:11:42.:11:43.

dogged opponent of the force and dogged opponent of the force and

:11:43.:11:45.

the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

:11:45.:11:46.

the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

:11:46.:11:48.

November of 1989, a report by the November of 1989, a report by the

:11:48.:11:49.

November of 1989, a report by the authority left the family further

:11:49.:11:56.

It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

:11:56.:11:57.

It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

:11:57.:11:57.

with what was one of the most with what was one of the most

:11:57.:11:59.

with what was one of the most important things in the authority.

:11:59.:12:01.

important things in the authority. important things in the authority.

:12:01.:12:02.

We think, in fairness. It's been We think, in fairness. It's been

:12:02.:12:08.

pretty shabbily treated. pretty shabbily treated.

:12:08.:12:09.

pretty shabbily treated. inquest began in Noam -- November

:12:09.:12:17.

inquest began in Noam -- November inquest began in Noam -- November

:12:17.:12:18.

inquest began in Noam -- November of 1990. The coroner said there was

:12:18.:12:20.

of 1990. The coroner said there was of 1990. The coroner said there was

:12:20.:12:22.

fatal injury by 3:15pm and any fatal injury by 3:15pm and any

:12:22.:12:23.

fatal injury by 3:15pm and any others were not relevant to death.

:12:23.:12:26.

others were not relevant to death. others were not relevant to death.

:12:26.:12:28.

The verdict of accidental death The verdict of accidental death

:12:28.:12:30.

prompted outrage. Some believe prompted outrage. Some believe

:12:30.:12:31.

prompted outrage. Some believe there were found to lived beyond

:12:31.:12:32.

there were found to lived beyond there were found to lived beyond

:12:32.:12:42.
:12:42.:12:46.

there were found to lived beyond We have had to take on every part

:12:46.:12:48.

We have had to take on every part We have had to take on every part

:12:48.:12:49.

of the Establishment. If 95 police of the Establishment. If 95 police

:12:49.:12:50.

of the Establishment. If 95 police forces has had been killed, we

:12:50.:12:51.

forces has had been killed, we forces has had been killed, we

:12:51.:13:01.

would have seen a different Her complaints and disciplinary

:13:01.:13:02.

Her complaints and disciplinary Her complaints and disciplinary

:13:02.:13:12.

hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

:13:12.:13:13.

hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

:13:13.:13:14.

to nothing. In 1997, there was a to nothing. In 1997, there was a

:13:14.:13:15.

to nothing. In 1997, there was a fresh examination of the evidence.

:13:15.:13:16.

fresh examination of the evidence. fresh examination of the evidence.

:13:16.:13:18.

But a new inquiry was denied. But a new inquiry was denied.

:13:18.:13:20.

But a new inquiry was denied. It is a total travesty.

:13:20.:13:21.

It is a total travesty. It is a total travesty.

:13:21.:13:22.

The families pursued their own The families pursued their own

:13:22.:13:22.

The families pursued their own prosecution against the officers in

:13:22.:13:23.

prosecution against the officers in charge at Hillsborough, Chief

:13:23.:13:24.

charge at Hillsborough, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield

:13:24.:13:25.

Superintendent David Duckenfield and his deputy, Superintendent

:13:25.:13:27.

and his deputy, Superintendent and his deputy, Superintendent

:13:27.:13:28.

Bernard Murray. After a six-week Bernard Murray. After a six-week

:13:28.:13:29.

Bernard Murray. After a six-week trial, the jury found Murray not

:13:29.:13:30.

trial, the jury found Murray not trial, the jury found Murray not

:13:30.:13:31.

guilty. They failed to reach a guilty. They failed to reach a

:13:31.:13:33.

guilty. They failed to reach a verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

:13:33.:13:34.

verdict on Duckenfield. Once again, verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

:13:34.:13:39.

Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

:13:40.:13:41.

Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

:13:41.:13:42.

have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

:13:42.:13:43.

have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

:13:43.:13:44.

have put this case in a court of law as we said and we nearly won it,

:13:44.:13:46.

law as we said and we nearly won it, law as we said and we nearly won it,

:13:46.:13:47.

we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the

:13:47.:13:51.

we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the families didn't give up. By the

:13:51.:13:52.

families didn't give up. By the families didn't give up. By the

:13:52.:13:53.

20th anniversary, the calls for 20th anniversary, the calls for

:13:53.:14:03.
:14:03.:14:07.

20th anniversary, the calls for The government agreed to release

:14:07.:14:10.

The government agreed to release The government agreed to release

:14:10.:14:11.

files about the disaster. The files about the disaster. The

:14:11.:14:12.

Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

:14:12.:14:13.

Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

:14:13.:14:13.

set up to review the material and set up to review the material and

:14:13.:14:15.

set up to review the material and publish any new evidence. Their

:14:15.:14:16.

publish any new evidence. Their publish any new evidence. Their

:14:16.:14:17.

report last September left the report last September left the

:14:17.:14:18.

public shocked, the families public shocked, the families

:14:18.:14:26.

relieved, and the establishment contrite.

:14:26.:14:27.

contrite. contrite.

:14:27.:14:28.

Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

:14:28.:14:29.

Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

:14:29.:14:30.

with today makes clear in my view with today makes clear in my view

:14:30.:14:31.

with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a

:14:31.:14:33.

that these families have suffered a that these families have suffered a

:14:33.:14:35.

double injustice -- for the new double injustice -- for the new

:14:35.:14:36.

double injustice -- for the new evidence. The appalling events, the

:14:36.:14:37.

evidence. The appalling events, the evidence. The appalling events, the

:14:37.:14:39.

failure of the state to protect failure of the state to protect

:14:39.:14:40.

failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the

:14:40.:14:41.

their loved ones, and the their loved ones, and the

:14:41.:14:42.

indefensible way to get the truth, indefensible way to get the truth,

:14:42.:14:44.

indefensible way to get the truth, have an the denigration of the

:14:44.:14:45.

have an the denigration of the have an the denigration of the

:14:45.:14:46.

deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

:14:46.:14:48.

deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

:14:48.:14:49.

fault for their own deaths. So on fault for their own deaths. So on

:14:49.:14:50.

fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government on the

:14:50.:14:52.

behalf of the government on the behalf of the government on the

:14:52.:14:53.

contrary, I am profoundly sorry if contrary, I am profoundly sorry if

:14:53.:14:55.

contrary, I am profoundly sorry if this double injustice has been left

:14:55.:14:57.

this double injustice has been left this double injustice has been left

:14:57.:14:59.

without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

:14:59.:15:00.

without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

:15:00.:15:01.

We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

:15:01.:15:02.

We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

:15:02.:15:05.

long time that we are on the brink long time that we are on the brink

:15:05.:15:06.

of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

:15:06.:15:07.

of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

:15:07.:15:08.

The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

:15:08.:15:09.

The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

:15:09.:15:10.

truth was only the start of the truth was only the start of the

:15:10.:15:11.

truth was only the start of the search for justice. The report said

:15:11.:15:12.

search for justice. The report said search for justice. The report said

:15:12.:15:13.

search for justice. The report said as many as 41 of the Hillsborough

:15:13.:15:14.

as many as 41 of the Hillsborough victims could potentially have

:15:14.:15:15.

victims could potentially have victims could potentially have

:15:15.:15:16.

survived if the emergency response survived if the emergency response

:15:16.:15:21.

had been better. had been better.

:15:21.:15:21.

$$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the $$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the

:15:21.:15:24.

accidental death verdicts were accidental death verdicts were

:15:24.:15:25.

overturned. Lord Justice Goldring overturned. Lord Justice Goldring

:15:25.:15:26.

overturned. Lord Justice Goldring will conduct new inquests, and the

:15:26.:15:27.

will conduct new inquests, and the will conduct new inquests, and the

:15:27.:15:28.

will conduct new inquests, and the law has been changed so they do not

:15:28.:15:29.

law has been changed so they do not law has been changed so they do not

:15:29.:15:36.

law has been changed so they do not have to be held in Sheffield.

:15:36.:15:37.

have to be held in Sheffield. have to be held in Sheffield.

:15:37.:15:38.

the depth and length of that the depth and length of that

:15:38.:15:39.

the depth and length of that judgment, we could not have got

:15:39.:15:40.

judgment, we could not have got judgment, we could not have got

:15:40.:15:44.

judgment, we could not have got better if we had written it ourself.

:15:44.:15:45.

better if we had written it ourself. better if we had written it ourself.

:15:45.:15:46.

The long campaign has dominated The long campaign has dominated

:15:46.:15:47.

Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter

:15:47.:15:47.

Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter McGuinness rose through the ranks

:15:47.:15:48.

McGuinness rose through the ranks to become a Detective

:15:48.:15:49.

to become a Detective Superintendent, investigating some

:15:49.:15:50.

Superintendent, investigating some Superintendent, investigating some

:15:50.:15:51.

of South Yorkshire's most serious crimes.

:15:51.:15:52.

crimes. crimes.

:15:52.:15:53.

crimes. The two men have been on each

:15:53.:15:54.

The two men have been on each The two men have been on each

:15:54.:15:55.

other's minds, but their only other's minds, but their only

:15:55.:15:56.

contact was Trevor's letter, contact was Trevor's letter,

:15:56.:15:57.

commending Peter's efforts, written commending Peter's efforts, written

:15:57.:16:07.
:16:07.:16:11.

commending Peter's efforts, written I am on my way to meet Peter

:16:11.:16:12.

I am on my way to meet Peter I am on my way to meet Peter

:16:12.:16:14.

I am on my way to meet Peter McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:14.:16:16.

McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:16.:16:17.

McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

:16:17.:16:18.

he was a PC. I have only been back he was a PC. I have only been back

:16:18.:16:19.

he was a PC. I have only been back to Hillsborough a couple of times

:16:19.:16:20.

to Hillsborough a couple of times to Hillsborough a couple of times

:16:20.:16:23.

to Hillsborough a couple of times and I still find it quaint daunting.

:16:23.:16:26.

and I still find it quaint daunting. and I still find it quaint daunting.

:16:26.:16:26.

and I still find it quaint daunting. -- quite. It by can answer any

:16:26.:16:28.

-- quite. It by can answer any -- quite. It by can answer any

:16:28.:16:30.

questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

:16:30.:16:31.

questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

:16:31.:16:33.

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

:16:33.:16:34.

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

:16:34.:16:35.

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. I do not not want to give him the

:16:35.:16:37.

I do not not want to give him the I do not not want to give him the

:16:37.:16:38.

I do not not want to give him the opportunity to do that. This is a

:16:38.:16:39.

opportunity to do that. This is a opportunity to do that. This is a

:16:39.:16:39.

opportunity to do that. This is a man to man meeting, it has nothing

:16:39.:16:41.

man to man meeting, it has nothing man to man meeting, it has nothing

:16:41.:16:41.

man to man meeting, it has nothing to do with the campaign, this is

:16:41.:16:44.

to do with the campaign, this is to do with the campaign, this is

:16:44.:16:46.

to do with the campaign, this is long overdue and I want to thank

:16:46.:16:47.

long overdue and I want to thank long overdue and I want to thank

:16:47.:16:49.

long overdue and I want to thank the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:49.:16:50.

the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:50.:16:51.

the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

:16:51.:16:54.

He may be able to fill a few banks. He may be able to fill a few banks.

:16:54.:16:55.

He may be able to fill a few banks. He courageously wants to command

:16:55.:16:56.

He courageously wants to command He courageously wants to command

:16:56.:16:56.

He courageously wants to command what police officers did on the day

:16:57.:16:57.

what police officers did on the day what police officers did on the day

:16:57.:17:00.

what police officers did on the day and I think that is laudable and I

:17:00.:17:01.

and I think that is laudable and I and I think that is laudable and I

:17:01.:17:02.

and I think that is laudable and I think that is the main reason why I

:17:02.:17:12.
:17:12.:17:15.

think that is the main reason why I Trevor is the one who has lost two

:17:15.:17:16.

Trevor is the one who has lost two Trevor is the one who has lost two

:17:16.:17:18.

Trevor is the one who has lost two daughters, I have lost our body. It

:17:18.:17:20.

daughters, I have lost our body. It daughters, I have lost our body. It

:17:20.:17:21.

was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

:17:21.:17:22.

was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

:17:22.:17:24.

memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

:17:24.:17:25.

memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

:17:25.:17:27.

nobody. Trevor is the one this is focused around.

:17:27.:17:28.

focused around. focused around.

:17:28.:17:29.

focused around. As haunting as the trip back to

:17:29.:17:30.

As haunting as the trip back to As haunting as the trip back to

:17:30.:17:31.

Hillsborough must be for him, this Hillsborough must be for him, this

:17:31.:17:32.

Hillsborough must be for him, this is familiar territory for Trevor.

:17:32.:17:33.

is familiar territory for Trevor. is familiar territory for Trevor.

:17:33.:17:33.

This haven of remembrance, a This haven of remembrance, a

:17:33.:17:34.

This haven of remembrance, a memorial garden he helped raise the

:17:34.:17:35.

memorial garden he helped raise the memorial garden he helped raise the

:17:35.:17:36.

funds to build, was provided for funds to build, was provided for

:17:36.:17:43.

funds to build, was provided for the bereaved to sit and reflect.

:17:43.:17:48.

the bereaved to sit and reflect. Trepidation, anticipation. All the

:17:48.:17:49.

Trepidation, anticipation. All the Trepidation, anticipation. All the

:17:49.:17:50.

emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

:17:50.:17:51.

emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

:17:51.:17:52.

long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

:17:52.:17:53.

long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

:17:53.:17:54.

element of guilt that I should have element of guilt that I should have

:17:54.:17:58.

element of guilt that I should have done it sooner. Apprehensive that

:17:58.:17:59.

done it sooner. Apprehensive that done it sooner. Apprehensive that

:17:59.:18:00.

done it sooner. Apprehensive that it goes well on all those fronts,

:18:00.:18:03.

it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well on all those fronts,

:18:03.:18:04.

it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well for Trevor and that

:18:04.:18:06.

it goes well for Trevor and that it goes well for Trevor and that

:18:06.:18:07.

the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

:18:07.:18:08.

the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

:18:08.:18:09.

we're trying to achieve and to we we're trying to achieve and to we

:18:09.:18:10.

we're trying to achieve and to we are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:10.:18:14.

are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:14.:18:16.

are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

:18:16.:18:16.

I just hope it goes right and it is I just hope it goes right and it is

:18:16.:18:17.

I just hope it goes right and it is not a negative experience for

:18:17.:18:27.
:18:27.:18:29.

Trevor, a long time, a very long Trevor, a long time, a very long

:18:29.:18:30.

Trevor, a long time, a very long time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:30.:18:32.

time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:32.:18:34.

time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

:18:34.:18:35.

a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

:18:35.:18:36.

a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

:18:36.:18:40.

to say, a lot to ask. There is! to say, a lot to ask. There is!

:18:41.:18:41.

to say, a lot to ask. There is! When we get over the initial

:18:41.:18:47.

When we get over the initial When we get over the initial

:18:47.:18:48.

embarrassment. I could not not embarrassment. I could not not

:18:48.:18:52.

embarrassment. I could not not afforded the opportunity to meet.

:18:52.:18:53.

afforded the opportunity to meet. - afford you.

:18:53.:18:54.

- afford you. After that initial awkwardness

:18:54.:18:55.

After that initial awkwardness After that initial awkwardness

:18:55.:18:56.

subsides, they begin to reflect on subsides, they begin to reflect on

:18:56.:18:57.

subsides, they begin to reflect on what has brought them together.

:18:57.:18:58.

what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

:18:58.:19:00.

what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

:19:00.:19:01.

I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

:19:01.:19:02.

I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

:19:02.:19:05.

I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

:19:05.:19:06.

I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

:19:06.:19:07.

struck me as a measure of you bet struck me as a measure of you bet

:19:07.:19:11.

against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

:19:11.:19:13.

against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

:19:13.:19:14.

everything you have to face and the everything you have to face and the

:19:14.:19:15.

everything you have to face and the battle you were starting, to take

:19:15.:19:17.

battle you were starting, to take battle you were starting, to take

:19:17.:19:17.

battle you were starting, to take the time to write that and to thank

:19:17.:19:19.

the time to write that and to thank the time to write that and to thank

:19:19.:19:21.

the time to write that and to thank me, which was not needed. I felt it

:19:21.:19:22.

me, which was not needed. I felt it me, which was not needed. I felt it

:19:22.:19:24.

me, which was not needed. I felt it was, that is why I felt this was

:19:24.:19:27.

was, that is why I felt this was overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

:19:27.:19:28.

overdue, meeting face-to-face. It overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

:19:28.:19:29.

overdue, meeting face-to-face. It is good to shake your hand and his

:19:29.:19:32.

is good to shake your hand and his is good to shake your hand and his

:19:32.:19:42.
:19:42.:19:50.

A difficult 23 years. It has taken A difficult 23 years. It has taken

:19:50.:19:51.

A difficult 23 years. It has taken its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:52.:19:52.

its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:52.:19:53.

its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

:19:53.:19:57.

Be it is not just me, I am a Be it is not just me, I am a

:19:57.:19:59.

Be it is not just me, I am a figurehead. Like today, there are

:19:59.:19:59.

figurehead. Like today, there are figurehead. Like today, there are

:19:59.:20:00.

figurehead. Like today, there are two of May, the chairman does his

:20:00.:20:02.

two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

:20:02.:20:04.

two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

:20:04.:20:05.

job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

:20:05.:20:07.

job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

:20:07.:20:09.

of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

:20:09.:20:10.

of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

:20:10.:20:12.

some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

:20:12.:20:13.

some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

:20:13.:20:14.

part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

:20:14.:20:17.

part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

:20:17.:20:18.

only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

:20:18.:20:25.

only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

:20:25.:20:25.

key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is

:20:25.:20:26.

key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is not the public face, but public

:20:26.:20:29.

not the public face, but public not the public face, but public

:20:29.:20:30.

face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

:20:30.:20:30.

face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

:20:30.:20:36.

I am a nicer person in some ways I am a nicer person in some ways

:20:37.:20:37.

I am a nicer person in some ways after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:37.:20:38.

after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:38.:20:39.

after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

:20:39.:20:42.

you have to make the best of a bad job.

:20:42.:20:44.

job. job.

:20:44.:20:44.

job. In a person's wife, things were run

:20:44.:20:46.

In a person's wife, things were run In a person's wife, things were run

:20:46.:20:47.

parallel and my daughter has gone parallel and my daughter has gone

:20:47.:20:51.

parallel and my daughter has gone to Liverpool University. Sarah was

:20:51.:20:53.

to Liverpool University. Sarah was to Liverpool University. Sarah was

:20:53.:20:54.

that Liverpool and there is a that Liverpool and there is a

:20:54.:20:56.

that Liverpool and there is a memorial garden for her. Meeting

:20:56.:20:57.

memorial garden for her. Meeting memorial garden for her. Meeting

:20:57.:20:58.

memorial garden for her. Meeting and you, you on my personal hero

:20:58.:21:01.

and you, you on my personal hero and you, you on my personal hero

:21:01.:21:01.

and you, you on my personal hero and you also represent the on the

:21:01.:21:02.

and you also represent the on the and you also represent the on the

:21:02.:21:04.

and you also represent the on the beat bobbies he did a good job on

:21:04.:21:05.

beat bobbies he did a good job on beat bobbies he did a good job on

:21:05.:21:06.

beat bobbies he did a good job on the day. Some did not and some did

:21:06.:21:07.

the day. Some did not and some did the day. Some did not and some did

:21:07.:21:08.

the day. Some did not and some did and I have always said, I have said

:21:08.:21:10.

and I have always said, I have said and I have always said, I have said

:21:10.:21:12.

and I have always said, I have said it a lot of time, -- times, a

:21:12.:21:13.

it a lot of time, -- times, a it a lot of time, -- times, a

:21:14.:21:15.

policeman is a civilian in uniform. policeman is a civilian in uniform.

:21:15.:21:16.

policeman is a civilian in uniform. We always look at things

:21:16.:21:18.

We always look at things We always look at things

:21:18.:21:18.

We always look at things differently in the light of a life-

:21:18.:21:20.

differently in the light of a life- differently in the light of a life-

:21:20.:21:21.

changing experience and you see the changing experience and you see the

:21:21.:21:23.

changing experience and you see the good guys and the bad guys.

:21:23.:21:25.

good guys and the bad guys. good guys and the bad guys.

:21:25.:21:26.

Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

:21:26.:21:28.

Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

:21:28.:21:29.

as we see them, not as South as we see them, not as South

:21:29.:21:30.

as we see them, not as South Yorkshire Police would see them,

:21:30.:21:31.

Yorkshire Police would see them, Yorkshire Police would see them,

:21:31.:21:36.

but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

:21:36.:21:38.

but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

:21:38.:21:40.

that is a problem, that sound bite. that is a problem, that sound bite.

:21:40.:21:41.

that is a problem, that sound bite. People talk about how South

:21:41.:21:45.

People talk about how South People talk about how South

:21:45.:21:46.

Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

:21:46.:21:47.

Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

:21:47.:21:48.

macro is made up of a lot of macro is made up of a lot of

:21:48.:21:49.

macro is made up of a lot of individuals and they do not think

:21:49.:21:50.

individuals and they do not think individuals and they do not think

:21:50.:21:52.

as a block -- South Yorkshire as a block -- South Yorkshire

:21:52.:21:54.

Police. People have different Police. People have different

:21:54.:21:55.

Police. People have different Police. People have different

:21:55.:21:56.

opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

:21:56.:21:56.

opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

:21:56.:21:59.

there on the day and we all saw there on the day and we all saw

:21:59.:22:01.

there on the day and we all saw people tried their best. People

:22:01.:22:02.

people tried their best. People people tried their best. People

:22:02.:22:04.

cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

:22:04.:22:06.

cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

:22:06.:22:07.

was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

:22:07.:22:10.

was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

:22:10.:22:11.

To see young people dead and dying To see young people dead and dying

:22:11.:22:12.

To see young people dead and dying all around, but people sometimes

:22:12.:22:15.

all around, but people sometimes all around, but people sometimes

:22:15.:22:19.

forget that. And Liverpool fans, forget that. And Liverpool fans,

:22:19.:22:19.

forget that. And Liverpool fans, paramedics, police, they did do a

:22:19.:22:21.

paramedics, police, they did do a paramedics, police, they did do a

:22:21.:22:23.

tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

:22:23.:22:24.

tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

:22:24.:22:24.

Having met in front of the cameras, Having met in front of the cameras,

:22:24.:22:25.

Having met in front of the cameras, they want to discuss some things

:22:25.:22:26.

they want to discuss some things they want to discuss some things

:22:26.:22:27.

they want to discuss some things that are still too personal and too

:22:27.:22:28.

that are still too personal and too that are still too personal and too

:22:28.:22:32.

painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

:22:32.:22:33.

painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

:22:33.:22:34.

they are going to do that now in private.

:22:34.:22:35.

private. private.

:22:35.:22:36.

Peter and Trevor hadn't met since Peter and Trevor hadn't met since

:22:36.:22:37.

Peter and Trevor hadn't met since the disaster. Time has dulled the

:22:37.:22:38.

the disaster. Time has dulled the the disaster. Time has dulled the

:22:38.:22:39.

the disaster. Time has dulled the raw emotion of that day, but both

:22:39.:22:40.

raw emotion of that day, but both raw emotion of that day, but both

:22:40.:22:41.

men were unprepared for the men were unprepared for the

:22:41.:22:42.

men were unprepared for the strength of feeling stirred up by

:22:42.:22:51.

strength of feeling stirred up by strength of feeling stirred up by

:22:51.:22:52.

today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

:22:52.:22:55.

today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

:22:56.:22:57.

anxious I was as we walked in. The anxious I was as we walked in. The

:22:57.:22:58.

anxious I was as we walked in. The first feeling was, I was quite

:22:58.:23:00.

first feeling was, I was quite first feeling was, I was quite

:23:00.:23:02.

relieved. It is like waiting for relieved. It is like waiting for

:23:02.:23:03.

relieved. It is like waiting for the dentist, the waiting is worse

:23:03.:23:04.

the dentist, the waiting is worse the dentist, the waiting is worse

:23:04.:23:05.

the dentist, the waiting is worse than the treatment. A lot of people

:23:05.:23:06.

than the treatment. A lot of people than the treatment. A lot of people

:23:06.:23:08.

than the treatment. A lot of people do not realise I am more nervous

:23:08.:23:09.

do not realise I am more nervous do not realise I am more nervous

:23:09.:23:09.

do not realise I am more nervous than I, cos sometimes and it was a

:23:09.:23:10.

than I, cos sometimes and it was a than I, cos sometimes and it was a

:23:10.:23:12.

than I, cos sometimes and it was a big day and I was not quite sure

:23:12.:23:13.

big day and I was not quite sure big day and I was not quite sure

:23:13.:23:15.

what his reaction would be. what his reaction would be.

:23:15.:23:17.

what his reaction would be. wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

:23:17.:23:19.

wanted Trevor to be comfortable but wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

:23:19.:23:20.

I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

:23:20.:23:21.

I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

:23:21.:23:22.

not know if that was a macho not know if that was a macho

:23:22.:23:24.

not know if that was a macho barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:24.:23:25.

barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:25.:23:27.

barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

:23:27.:23:28.

been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

:23:28.:23:29.

been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

:23:29.:23:30.

those years back in hospital when I those years back in hospital when I

:23:30.:23:32.

those years back in hospital when I told him the terrible news. But

:23:32.:23:33.

told him the terrible news. But told him the terrible news. But

:23:33.:23:35.

somehow, the Hogg became a stiff somehow, the Hogg became a stiff

:23:35.:23:37.

somehow, the Hogg became a stiff handshake and I think it was

:23:37.:23:42.

handshake and I think it was handshake and I think it was

:23:42.:23:45.

handshake and I think it was similar with him. -- hug. It was

:23:45.:23:47.

similar with him. -- hug. It was similar with him. -- hug. It was

:23:47.:23:48.

similar with him. -- hug. It was awkward at first but it was a quick

:23:48.:23:49.

awkward at first but it was a quick awkward at first but it was a quick

:23:49.:23:50.

awkward at first but it was a quick bonding process. He is such a nice

:23:50.:23:52.

bonding process. He is such a nice bonding process. He is such a nice

:23:52.:23:53.

bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

:23:53.:23:54.

bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

:23:54.:23:55.

and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

:23:55.:23:57.

and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

:23:57.:23:58.

see has pain still coming out in see has pain still coming out in

:23:58.:24:01.

see has pain still coming out in all aspects of his conversation.

:24:01.:24:02.

all aspects of his conversation. all aspects of his conversation.

:24:02.:24:04.

all aspects of his conversation. was it really nice guy. We talked

:24:04.:24:05.

was it really nice guy. We talked was it really nice guy. We talked

:24:05.:24:06.

was it really nice guy. We talked about a few things on the day and

:24:06.:24:07.

about a few things on the day and about a few things on the day and

:24:07.:24:11.

his recollections were similar to mine.

:24:11.:24:12.

mine. mine.

:24:12.:24:13.

mine. He said this is something you were

:24:13.:24:14.

He said this is something you were He said this is something you were

:24:14.:24:17.

doing for Trevor, have you taken doing for Trevor, have you taken

:24:17.:24:18.

doing for Trevor, have you taken something positive from this? --

:24:18.:24:19.

something positive from this? -- something positive from this? --

:24:19.:24:21.

something positive from this? -- you said. I have, more so than I

:24:21.:24:23.

you said. I have, more so than I you said. I have, more so than I

:24:23.:24:25.

thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

:24:25.:24:26.

thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

:24:26.:24:26.

you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

:24:27.:24:29.

you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

:24:29.:24:31.

and death. But getting back to the and death. But getting back to the

:24:31.:24:32.

and death. But getting back to the human interaction with Trevor, it

:24:32.:24:33.

human interaction with Trevor, it human interaction with Trevor, it

:24:33.:24:34.

human interaction with Trevor, it is a great reaction -- a quick

:24:34.:24:36.

is a great reaction -- a quick is a great reaction -- a quick

:24:36.:24:39.

reminder of, what is this about? reminder of, what is this about?

:24:39.:24:41.

reminder of, what is this about? This is about his daughters,

:24:41.:24:43.

This is about his daughters, This is about his daughters,

:24:43.:24:44.

Victoria and Sarah, and the other Victoria and Sarah, and the other

:24:44.:24:47.

Victoria and Sarah, and the other victims. Among us that, there was

:24:47.:24:48.

victims. Among us that, there was victims. Among us that, there was

:24:48.:24:49.

victims. Among us that, there was such a tragic story -- among that.

:24:49.:24:50.

such a tragic story -- among that. such a tragic story -- among that.

:24:50.:24:51.

such a tragic story -- among that. Are there was a lot to talk about

:24:51.:24:52.

Are there was a lot to talk about Are there was a lot to talk about

:24:52.:24:54.

Are there was a lot to talk about so we will have a few meetings and

:24:54.:24:55.

so we will have a few meetings and so we will have a few meetings and

:24:55.:24:56.

so we will have a few meetings and the future -- there is a lot. We

:24:56.:24:58.

the future -- there is a lot. We the future -- there is a lot. We

:24:58.:24:59.

the future -- there is a lot. We will get in touch sub -- separately

:24:59.:25:00.

will get in touch sub -- separately will get in touch sub -- separately

:25:00.:25:01.

and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

:25:01.:25:03.

and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

:25:03.:25:05.

have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

:25:05.:25:06.

have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

:25:06.:25:08.

this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

:25:08.:25:09.

this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

:25:09.:25:10.

in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

:25:10.:25:11.

in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

:25:11.:25:12.

can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

:25:12.:25:14.

can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

:25:14.:25:17.

can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

:25:17.:25:20.

can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

:25:20.:25:21.

Just meeting. -- help him. It was Just meeting. -- help him. It was

:25:21.:25:23.

Just meeting. -- help him. It was good talking about that moment.

:25:23.:25:25.

good talking about that moment. good talking about that moment.

:25:25.:25:30.

Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

:25:30.:25:32.

Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

:25:32.:25:33.

- coming. You are in danger of - coming. You are in danger of

:25:33.:25:34.

- coming. You are in danger of being presumptuous for him lot of

:25:34.:25:35.

being presumptuous for him lot of being presumptuous for him lot of

:25:35.:25:37.

being presumptuous for him lot of people and that is not my place. It

:25:37.:25:38.

people and that is not my place. It people and that is not my place. It

:25:38.:25:40.

has been symbolic for Trevor and has been symbolic for Trevor and

:25:40.:25:42.

has been symbolic for Trevor and for me, reflecting back on those

:25:42.:25:43.

for me, reflecting back on those for me, reflecting back on those

:25:43.:25:45.

for me, reflecting back on those days, and I think it is symbolic of

:25:45.:25:48.

days, and I think it is symbolic of days, and I think it is symbolic of

:25:48.:25:48.

people may be reminding themselves people may be reminding themselves

:25:49.:25:50.

people may be reminding themselves about the efforts some people did

:25:50.:25:51.

about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

:25:51.:25:53.

about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

:25:53.:25:56.

go to on that day. It may have some go to on that day. It may have some

:25:56.:25:58.

symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

:25:58.:25:59.

symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

:25:59.:26:00.

only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

:26:00.:26:02.

only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

:26:02.:26:05.

each side and people feel that they each side and people feel that they

:26:05.:26:06.

each side and people feel that they have travelled to where they need

:26:06.:26:08.

have travelled to where they need have travelled to where they need

:26:08.:26:09.

have travelled to where they need to be. With have crossed a personal

:26:09.:26:12.

to be. With have crossed a personal to be. With have crossed a personal

:26:12.:26:13.

divide. -- we have crossed. He divide. -- we have crossed. He

:26:13.:26:14.

divide. -- we have crossed. He might have a different opinion to

:26:14.:26:16.

might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

:26:16.:26:17.

might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

:26:17.:26:19.

me, but I did not see this as two me, but I did not see this as two

:26:19.:26:20.

me, but I did not see this as two sides, South Yorkshire Police and

:26:20.:26:22.

sides, South Yorkshire Police and sides, South Yorkshire Police and

:26:22.:26:24.

sides, South Yorkshire Police and the families. I see this as me and

:26:24.:26:25.

the families. I see this as me and the families. I see this as me and

:26:25.:26:28.

an individual saying thank you to an individual saying thank you to

:26:28.:26:29.

an individual saying thank you to another individual who was a young

:26:29.:26:30.

another individual who was a young another individual who was a young

:26:30.:26:31.

another individual who was a young police officer on the day for what

:26:31.:26:33.

police officer on the day for what police officer on the day for what

:26:33.:26:33.

police officer on the day for what he did to help. Trevor felt the

:26:34.:26:35.

he did to help. Trevor felt the he did to help. Trevor felt the

:26:35.:26:37.

he did to help. Trevor felt the need to meet me and maybe that is

:26:37.:26:38.

need to meet me and maybe that is need to meet me and maybe that is

:26:38.:26:39.

need to meet me and maybe that is part of something on his journey. I

:26:39.:26:41.

part of something on his journey. I part of something on his journey. I

:26:41.:26:42.

do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

:26:42.:26:43.

do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

:26:43.:26:44.

desire for truth, I do not think it desire for truth, I do not think it

:26:44.:26:46.

desire for truth, I do not think it lessens their desire for justice, I

:26:46.:26:48.

lessens their desire for justice, I lessens their desire for justice, I

:26:48.:26:48.

lessens their desire for justice, I do not think it diminishes any of

:26:48.:26:50.

do not think it diminishes any of do not think it diminishes any of

:26:50.:26:52.

those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

:26:52.:26:53.

those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

:26:53.:26:56.

that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

:26:56.:26:57.

that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

:26:57.:26:58.

some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

:26:58.:26:59.

some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

:26:59.:26:59.

people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

:26:59.:27:01.

people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

:27:01.:27:03.

move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

:27:03.:27:04.

move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

:27:04.:27:09.

a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

:27:09.:27:10.

a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

:27:10.:27:11.

thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

:27:11.:27:13.

thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

:27:13.:27:14.

on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

:27:14.:27:15.

on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

:27:15.:27:18.

time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

:27:18.:27:19.

time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

:27:19.:27:21.

of years, went there was a more of years, went there was a more

:27:21.:27:22.

of years, went there was a more across the board reconciliation --

:27:22.:27:24.

across the board reconciliation -- across the board reconciliation --

:27:24.:27:25.

across the board reconciliation -- and where there is. But that time

:27:25.:27:27.

and where there is. But that time and where there is. But that time

:27:27.:27:34.

is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

:27:34.:27:37.

is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

:27:37.:27:38.

The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

:27:38.:27:39.

The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

:27:39.:27:40.

The party see you. Pleasure to meet you. -- it is good to see you. I

:27:41.:27:42.

you. -- it is good to see you. I you. -- it is good to see you. I

:27:42.:27:44.

hope we meet again. Look after hope we meet again. Look after

:27:44.:27:47.

hope we meet again. Look after yourself. And you for coming.

:27:47.:27:50.

yourself. And you for coming. yourself. And you for coming.

:27:50.:27:52.

thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

:27:52.:27:53.

thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

:27:53.:27:54.

This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

:27:54.:27:55.

This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

:27:55.:27:56.

two men who meet again after two two men who meet again after two

:27:56.:27:57.

two men who meet again after two decades apart. But the wider

:27:57.:27:57.

decades apart. But the wider decades apart. But the wider

:27:58.:27:59.

resonance is hard to ignore. resonance is hard to ignore.

:27:59.:28:00.

resonance is hard to ignore. Justice for the bereaved is still

:28:00.:28:01.

Justice for the bereaved is still Justice for the bereaved is still

:28:01.:28:01.

to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

:28:01.:28:03.

to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

:28:03.:28:04.

seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

:28:04.:28:05.

seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

:28:05.:28:06.

one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

:28:06.:28:07.

one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

:28:07.:28:17.
:28:17.:28:25.

might be seen as a small step along A remarkable reunion. And in

:28:25.:28:26.

A remarkable reunion. And in A remarkable reunion. And in

:28:26.:28:27.

tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter

:28:27.:28:29.

tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter McGuinness who wanted to make them

:28:29.:28:30.

McGuinness who wanted to make them McGuinness who wanted to make them

:28:30.:28:32.

meeting public -- a tribute. That meeting public -- a tribute. That

:28:32.:28:33.

meeting public -- a tribute. That is it from Hillsborough, but you

:28:33.:28:35.

is it from Hillsborough, but you is it from Hillsborough, but you

:28:35.:28:37.

can watch the programme again on the iPlayer.

:28:37.:28:38.

the iPlayer. the iPlayer.

:28:38.:28:42.

the iPlayer. Make sure you join us next week.

:28:42.:28:43.

Make sure you join us next week. Make sure you join us next week.

:28:43.:28:44.

Rediscover the true scale of Rediscover the true scale of

:28:44.:28:45.

Rediscover the true scale of malnutrition in our bigger city and

:28:45.:28:46.

malnutrition in our bigger city and malnutrition in our bigger city and

:28:46.:28:47.

malnutrition in our bigger city and find out what is being done to help

:28:47.:28:48.

Inside Out for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire has the remarkable story of a reunion between two men whose lives were changed by the Hillsborough tragedy. Trevor Hicks who lost his two daughters and Peter McGuiness the police man who tried to save one of those girls meet again for the first time since that day almost twenty five years ago.


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