18/02/2013 Inside Out Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Hello and welcome to Inside Out, Hello and welcome to Inside Out,

Hello and welcome to Inside Out, where tonight we are at

where tonight we are at Hillsborough Faure special

Hillsborough Faure special Hillsborough Faure special

programme. It is nearly a quarter programme. It is nearly a quarter

programme. It is nearly a quarter of a century since this football

of a century since this football of a century since this football

stadium saw the most awful tragedy. stadium saw the most awful tragedy.

stadium saw the most awful tragedy. 96 people died in the Hillsborough

96 people died in the Hillsborough 96 people died in the Hillsborough

disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

disaster, and for the families, disaster, and for the families,

there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

there is still no sense of justice. there is still no sense of justice.

He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

He led to a bitter divide between He led to a bitter divide between

them and the Police -- it lead. them and the Police -- it lead.

them and the Police -- it lead. Tonight we bring you the remarkable

Tonight we bring you the remarkable Tonight we bring you the remarkable

Tonight we bring you the remarkable story of two men on the opposite

story of two men on the opposite story of two men on the opposite

sides of the divide. They are sides of the divide. They are

sides of the divide. They are preparing to meet for the first

preparing to meet for the first The key would have been 39, and

The key would have been 39, and The key would have been 39, and

The key would have been 39, and Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky

Sarah would have been 41 -- Vicky would have been 39. They may have

would have been 39. They may have would have been 39. They may have

had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

had families orchids of their own. had families orchids of their own.

I have missed out on paying for a I have missed out on paying for a

I have missed out on paying for a couple of weddings, and grand kids.

couple of weddings, and grand kids. couple of weddings, and grand kids.

couple of weddings, and grand kids. One of the things that is the

One of the things that is the One of the things that is the

One of the things that is the hardest to come to terms with is

hardest to come to terms with is hardest to come to terms with is

the loss of both opportunities for the loss of both opportunities for

the loss of both opportunities for them to have fulfilled their

them to have fulfilled their them to have fulfilled their

ambitions and dreams. So many ambitions and dreams. So many

ambitions and dreams. So many futures were cut short that day.

futures were cut short that day. futures were cut short that day.

Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

Trevor Hicks has always blamed the Trevor Hicks has always blamed the

police for the loss of his two police for the loss of his two

police for the loss of his two daughters. They were crushed to

daughters. They were crushed to daughters. They were crushed to

death in the Leppings Lane End. death in the Leppings Lane End.

death in the Leppings Lane End. Despite his anger and bitterness,

Despite his anger and bitterness, Despite his anger and bitterness,

Despite his anger and bitterness, he wrote a letter to commend an

he wrote a letter to commend an he wrote a letter to commend an

he wrote a letter to commend an officer who tried in vain to save

officer who tried in vain to save officer who tried in vain to save

the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

the Victoria, his youngest daughter. the Victoria, his youngest daughter.

What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

What he did was awful for him, but What he did was awful for him, but

What he did was awful for him, but I see it as being a hero for me. I

I see it as being a hero for me. I I see it as being a hero for me. I

I see it as being a hero for me. I need to say that, publicly. I did

need to say that, publicly. I did need to say that, publicly. I did

need to say that, publicly. I did what a lot of police officers did

what a lot of police officers did what a lot of police officers did

on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

on the day, nothing more, nothing on the day, nothing more, nothing

less. You just try to do your best less. You just try to do your best

in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

in harrowing circumstances. Now, in harrowing circumstances. Now,

nearly a quarter of a century later, nearly a quarter of a century later,

nearly a quarter of a century later, Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

Trevor Hicks wants to meet that Trevor Hicks wants to meet that

officer once more. I am often officer once more. I am often

officer once more. I am often betrayed as someone who hates

betrayed as someone who hates betrayed as someone who hates

policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

policeman, which is not the case. policeman, which is not the case.

Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

Peter is a very good example of Peter is a very good example of

that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

that. As far as I'm concerned, he that. As far as I'm concerned, he

that. As far as I'm concerned, he was a hero of a bobby on the day.

was a hero of a bobby on the day. was a hero of a bobby on the day.

This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved

This is Trevor Hicks, the bereaved father, meeting the man who happens

father, meeting the man who happens father, meeting the man who happens

father, meeting the man who happens to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

to be PC Magennis, to thank him for to be PC Magennis, to thank him for

to be PC Magennis, to thank him for what he did on that date -- PC

what he did on that date -- PC what he did on that date -- PC

what he did on that date -- PC McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

McGuinness. It is as simple as that. McGuinness. It is as simple as that.

McGuinness. It is as simple as that. If I can bring one iota of comfort

If I can bring one iota of comfort If I can bring one iota of comfort

If I can bring one iota of comfort to a man who has lost his daughters

to a man who has lost his daughters to a man who has lost his daughters

in those circumstances, it is worth As well as changing the face of our

As well as changing the face of our As well as changing the face of our

national game, Hillsborough or left national game, Hillsborough or left

national game, Hillsborough or left an indelible stain on the

an indelible stain on the reputation of South Yorkshire

reputation of South Yorkshire police, whose officers were

police, whose officers were police, whose officers were

responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

responsible for ensuring the safety responsible for ensuring the safety

of the capacity crowd on April 15th, of the capacity crowd on April 15th,

of the capacity crowd on April 15th, 1989. The actions of a young

1989. The actions of a young 1989. The actions of a young

1989. The actions of a young constable on duty that day tell a

constable on duty that day tell a different story from the

different story from the catastrophic failures higher Rupp

catastrophic failures higher Rupp catastrophic failures higher Rupp

catastrophic failures higher Rupp in the command chain. -- higher up.

in the command chain. -- higher up. in the command chain. -- higher up.

in the command chain. -- higher up. As one of his final shifts in

As one of his final shifts in As one of his final shifts in

As one of his final shifts in uniform before taking up a post in

uniform before taking up a post in uniform before taking up a post in

CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

CID, PC Peter McGuinness was CID, PC Peter McGuinness was

brought in to help police the FA brought in to help police the FA

Cup semi-final between Liverpool Cup semi-final between Liverpool

Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. He has now

and Nottingham Forest. He has now and Nottingham Forest. He has now

retired from the force after rising retired from the force after rising

retired from the force after rising through the ranks to become a

through the ranks to become a through the ranks to become a

senior detective. Having led murder senior detective. Having led murder

senior detective. Having led murder inquiries, he routinely dealt with

inquiries, he routinely dealt with inquiries, he routinely dealt with

trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

trauma and loss, but Hillsborough trauma and loss, but Hillsborough

left a lasting mark. There is never left a lasting mark. There is never

left a lasting mark. There is never such a thing as closure. Some

such a thing as closure. Some such a thing as closure. Some

such a thing as closure. Some things you never get over. Some of

things you never get over. Some of things you never get over. Some of

things you never get over. Some of the images I have of Victoria, the

the images I have of Victoria, the the images I have of Victoria, the

memory of dealing with Trevor. memory of dealing with Trevor.

memory of dealing with Trevor. Those images stick with you, but

Those images stick with you, but Those images stick with you, but

Those images stick with you, but over time, you learn to cope and I

over time, you learn to cope and I over time, you learn to cope and I

over time, you learn to cope and I was still a young man. I have not

was still a young man. I have not was still a young man. I have not

was still a young man. I have not lost any one then. How are we

lost any one then. How are we lost any one then. How are we

doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful doing? Trevor Hicks is a successful

businessman, owner and managing businessman, owner and managing

businessman, owner and managing director of a thriving company

director of a thriving company director of a thriving company

supplying fittings to the pub trade. supplying fittings to the pub trade.

supplying fittings to the pub trade. But it is Hillsborough that has

But it is Hillsborough that has But it is Hillsborough that has

But it is Hillsborough that has defined his life, both in and out

defined his life, both in and out defined his life, both in and out

defined his life, both in and out of the public eye. He was chairman

of the public eye. He was chairman of the public eye. He was chairman

of the family support group that of the family support group that

of the family support group that fought for the truth about the

fought for the truth about the fought for the truth about the

disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

disaster. I will always be a disaster. I will always be a

chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

chipped cup. I am damage. I have a chipped cup. I am damage. I have a

new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

new life. I have tried to make the new life. I have tried to make the

new life. I have tried to make the best of a bad job. It was a sunny

best of a bad job. It was a sunny best of a bad job. It was a sunny

best of a bad job. It was a sunny day. It was a normal match build-up.

day. It was a normal match build-up. day. It was a normal match build-up.

day. It was a normal match build-up. It was a good occasion. We were all

It was a good occasion. We were all It was a good occasion. We were all

looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

looking forward to the game. Trevor looking forward to the game. Trevor

and his then wife Jenny had tickets and his then wife Jenny had tickets

and his then wife Jenny had tickets in different parts of the ground.

in different parts of the ground. in different parts of the ground.

Victoria and Sarah went with their Victoria and Sarah went with their

Victoria and Sarah went with their father to the Leppings Lane End.

father to the Leppings Lane End. father to the Leppings Lane End.

But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

But they were separated from him. But they were separated from him.

But they were separated from him. The girls and I were at the head of

The girls and I were at the head of The girls and I were at the head of

The girls and I were at the head of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of the tunnel, and I wanted a cup of

coffee. They went off down the coffee. They went off down the

coffee. They went off down the tunnel and that, really, was pure

tunnel and that, really, was pure tunnel and that, really, was pure

accident. So with the game under accident. So with the game under

accident. So with the game under way it soon became apparent that

way it soon became apparent that way it soon became apparent that

something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

something had gone terribly wrong. something had gone terribly wrong.

This was going to be some sort of This was going to be some sort of

This was going to be some sort of public order situation, so you were

public order situation, so you were public order situation, so you were

public order situation, so you were in a frame of mind for that. I

in a frame of mind for that. I immediately realised that wasn't

immediately realised that wasn't immediately realised that wasn't

immediately realised that wasn't the case. When I saw bodies laid by

the case. When I saw bodies laid by the case. When I saw bodies laid by

that side of me, fans desperately that side of me, fans desperately

that side of me, fans desperately trying to save people, police

trying to save people, police trying to save people, police

officers desperately trying to save officers desperately trying to save

officers desperately trying to save people. You don't have time to

people. You don't have time to people. You don't have time to

think. You just think, this is think. You just think, this is

think. You just think, this is unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah unbelievable. I thought I saw Sarah

or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

or Victoria passed onto the pitch. or Victoria passed onto the pitch.

I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

I did a quick U-turn and pushed my I did a quick U-turn and pushed my

way onto the pitch through one of way onto the pitch through one of

way onto the pitch through one of the gate. The police officers were

the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

the gate. The police officers were the gate. The police officers were

not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

not going to let us in, but I was not going to let us in, but I was

not for stopping. That is when I not for stopping. That is when I

not for stopping. That is when I first became aware of Trevor. I

first became aware of Trevor. I first became aware of Trevor. I

remember the words father. He kept remember the words father. He kept

remember the words father. He kept saying he was their father. And

saying he was their father. And saying he was their father. And

then we tried to give resuscitation, then we tried to give resuscitation,

then we tried to give resuscitation, as best we could. With medics

as best we could. With medics as best we could. With medics

working on Sarah alongside them, working on Sarah alongside them,

working on Sarah alongside them, together Peter and Trevor tried to

together Peter and Trevor tried to together Peter and Trevor tried to

revive Victoria. We picked her up revive Victoria. We picked her up

revive Victoria. We picked her up and ran towards the ambulance. We

and ran towards the ambulance. We and ran towards the ambulance. We

and ran towards the ambulance. We put her in the ambulance. And then

put her in the ambulance. And then put her in the ambulance. And then

put her in the ambulance. And then I turned round to get Sarah, if you

I turned round to get Sarah, if you I turned round to get Sarah, if you

I turned round to get Sarah, if you like. As I say, this was the low

like. As I say, this was the low like. As I say, this was the low

like. As I say, this was the low point of my life probably when I am

point of my life probably when I am point of my life probably when I am

faced with the decision. Quickly faced with the decision. Quickly

faced with the decision. Quickly other people were putting others

other people were putting others other people were putting others

other people were putting others into an ambulance, so do I go, or

into an ambulance, so do I go, or into an ambulance, so do I go, or

do I stay? Trevor took the do I stay? Trevor took the

do I stay? Trevor took the agonising decision to leave Sarah.

agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

agonising decision to leave Sarah. agonising decision to leave Sarah.

He and Peter we in the back of the He and Peter we in the back of the

ambulance desperately trying to ambulance desperately trying to

ambulance desperately trying to save Viktoria's life. We did feel

save Viktoria's life. We did feel save Viktoria's life. We did feel

save Viktoria's life. We did feel there was a post -- pulse. There

there was a post -- pulse. There there was a post -- pulse. There

there was a post -- pulse. There was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I was hope. We gave mouth to mouth. I

have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

have no recollection of two people have no recollection of two people

who had already passed away in the who had already passed away in the

who had already passed away in the ambulance. We arrived at the

ambulance. We arrived at the Northern General, and Peter

Northern General, and Peter Northern General, and Peter

Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

Magennis and myself take Victoria Magennis and myself take Victoria

in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took in. -- PC Peter McGuinness. We took

her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

her into the side room, and Trevor her into the side room, and Trevor

came in and was asked to step came in and was asked to step

came in and was asked to step outside. I get thrown out, because

outside. I get thrown out, because outside. I get thrown out, because

outside. I get thrown out, because they wanted to attend to the key. I

they wanted to attend to the key. I they wanted to attend to the key. I

remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

remember Peter being in their with remember Peter being in their with

them. I left it to the medical team them. I left it to the medical team

them. I left it to the medical team and gave what pieces of information

and gave what pieces of information and gave what pieces of information

and gave what pieces of information they were asking me. At some point,

they were asking me. At some point, they were asking me. At some point,

they were asking me. At some point, they stopped and said she had gone.

they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

they stopped and said she had gone. they stopped and said she had gone.

And I was faced with the sad job of And I was faced with the sad job of

And I was faced with the sad job of informing Trevor, of course. Peter

informing Trevor, of course. Peter informing Trevor, of course. Peter

was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

was in there until the curtain was in there until the curtain

opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

opens, and he comes out and gives opens, and he comes out and gives

me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

me the bad news. As far as I'm me the bad news. As far as I'm

concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

concerned, he was a good guy. And concerned, he was a good guy. And

he did a very tough job very well. he did a very tough job very well.

he did a very tough job very well. He was inconsolable. There is going

He was inconsolable. There is going He was inconsolable. There is going

He was inconsolable. There is going to be no trigger that is changing

to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

to be no trigger that is changing to be no trigger that is changing

that. I think I gave him a hug, and that. I think I gave him a hug, and

that. I think I gave him a hug, and then everything else kicked in.

then everything else kicked in. then everything else kicked in.

Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

Things were still happening. People Things were still happening. People

were still being brought in and I were still being brought in and I

were still being brought in and I was now beginning to realise the

was now beginning to realise the was now beginning to realise the

magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

magnitude of this. It sounds magnitude of this. It sounds

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, callous, but it wasn't meant to be,

callous, but it wasn't meant to be, but as soon as he told me there was

but as soon as he told me there was but as soon as he told me there was

nothing else I could do for nothing else I could do for

nothing else I could do for Victoria, my thoughts switched to

Victoria, my thoughts switched to Victoria, my thoughts switched to

Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

Sarah. Again, I assumed she would Sarah. Again, I assumed she would

be arriving any minute in one of be arriving any minute in one of

be arriving any minute in one of the other ambulances. But she never

the other ambulances. But she never the other ambulances. But she never

the other ambulances. But she never did. Sarah's body was taken to the

did. Sarah's body was taken to the did. Sarah's body was taken to the

makeshift morgue at the football makeshift morgue at the football

makeshift morgue at the football ground. This photograph of Trevor

ground. This photograph of Trevor ground. This photograph of Trevor

and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

and Jenny was taken outside before and Jenny was taken outside before

the match. It would be hours before the match. It would be hours before

the match. It would be hours before their worst fears were confirmed. A

their worst fears were confirmed. A their worst fears were confirmed. A

mixed the trauma, Trevor never mixed the trauma, Trevor never

mixed the trauma, Trevor never forgot Peter's support during that

forgot Peter's support during that forgot Peter's support during that

terrible time. Since the intense terrible time. Since the intense

terrible time. Since the intense moments they shed here nearly 25

moments they shed here nearly 25 moments they shed here nearly 25

years ago, their paths have never years ago, their paths have never

years ago, their paths have never crossed. -- they shed. Because of

crossed. -- they shed. Because of crossed. -- they shed. Because of

the bitter divide between the the bitter divide between the

the bitter divide between the families and the police, he looked

families and the police, he looked families and the police, he looked

unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely they would. -- it looked

unlikely they would. -- it looked unlikely. That's because of two

unlikely. That's because of two unlikely. That's because of two

decades over which the family's decades over which the family's

decades over which the family's pain has been increased by the

pain has been increased by the pain has been increased by the

anger of injustice. The government anger of injustice. The government

anger of injustice. The government announced a public inquiry. Within

announced a public inquiry. Within announced a public inquiry. Within

days of the disaster, there were days of the disaster, there were

days of the disaster, there were suggestions Liverpool fans were to

suggestions Liverpool fans were to suggestions Liverpool fans were to

blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

blame. Claims that some were drunk, blame. Claims that some were drunk,

turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

turned up late and tried to get in turned up late and tried to get in

without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

without tickets. All I know is that without tickets. All I know is that

when you are trying to control than when you are trying to control than

when you are trying to control than number of people, and they refuse

number of people, and they refuse number of people, and they refuse

to be directed or guided in to be directed or guided in

to be directed or guided in anything like an orderly fashion,

anything like an orderly fashion, anything like an orderly fashion,

that makes it almost impossible, an that makes it almost impossible, an

almost uncontrollable. For the almost uncontrollable. For the

almost uncontrollable. For the families, drawn together in grief,

families, drawn together in grief, families, drawn together in grief,

families, drawn together in grief, to hear such a version of events

to hear such a version of events to hear such a version of events

to hear such a version of events was too much to bear. They formed a

was too much to bear. They formed a was too much to bear. They formed a

support group, and Trevor Hicks support group, and Trevor Hicks

became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

became chairman. Lord Justice became chairman. Lord Justice

Taylor is heading what could be the Taylor is heading what could be the

public's biggest-ever public public's biggest-ever public

public's biggest-ever public inquiry, and before opening the

inquiry, and before opening the inquiry, and before opening the

inquiry, and before opening the hearing he stopped in the foyer of

hearing he stopped in the foyer of hearing he stopped in the foyer of

Sheffield Town Hall to sign the Sheffield Town Hall to sign the

remembrance book. The Taylor remembrance book. The Taylor

remembrance book. The Taylor inquiry criticised the lack of

inquiry criticised the lack of inquiry criticised the lack of

police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

police control. It was their fault police control. It was their fault

that a large crowd had been able to that a large crowd had been able to

that a large crowd had been able to gather outside the turnstiles. It

gather outside the turnstiles. It gather outside the turnstiles. It

gather outside the turnstiles. It was their decision to open a gate

was their decision to open a gate was their decision to open a gate

was their decision to open a gate to relieve the pressure, and it was

to relieve the pressure, and it was to relieve the pressure, and it was

their critical failure not to their critical failure not to

their critical failure not to direct the fans already away from

direct the fans already away from direct the fans already away from

the overcrowded pens. No officers the overcrowded pens. No officers

faced prosecution. South Yorkshire faced prosecution. South Yorkshire

faced prosecution. South Yorkshire police accepted the criticisms but

police accepted the criticisms but police accepted the criticisms but

no action followed. The offer to no action followed. The offer to

no action followed. The offer to resign was rejected. I am appalled.

resign was rejected. I am appalled. resign was rejected. I am appalled.

resign was rejected. I am appalled. We heard over the weekend there was

We heard over the weekend there was We heard over the weekend there was

a certain amount of sympathy for a certain amount of sympathy for

a certain amount of sympathy for the personal position. We did not

the personal position. We did not the personal position. We did not

believe that even the sympathy believe that even the sympathy

believe that even the sympathy could outweigh the South Yorkshire

could outweigh the South Yorkshire could outweigh the South Yorkshire

police authority having to face the police authority having to face the

responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

responsibilities of what happened responsibilities of what happened

on the day. You are not empowered on the day. You are not empowered

on the day. You are not empowered to make a contribution. Trevor

to make a contribution. Trevor to make a contribution. Trevor

Hicks gained a reputation as a Hicks gained a reputation as a

Hicks gained a reputation as a dogged opponent of the force and

dogged opponent of the force and dogged opponent of the force and

the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

the authority that oversaw it. In the authority that oversaw it. In

November of 1989, a report by the November of 1989, a report by the

November of 1989, a report by the authority left the family further

It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

It took about six minutes to deal It took about six minutes to deal

with what was one of the most with what was one of the most

with what was one of the most important things in the authority.

important things in the authority. important things in the authority.

We think, in fairness. It's been We think, in fairness. It's been

pretty shabbily treated. pretty shabbily treated.

pretty shabbily treated. inquest began in Noam -- November

inquest began in Noam -- November inquest began in Noam -- November

inquest began in Noam -- November of 1990. The coroner said there was

of 1990. The coroner said there was of 1990. The coroner said there was

fatal injury by 3:15pm and any fatal injury by 3:15pm and any

fatal injury by 3:15pm and any others were not relevant to death.

others were not relevant to death. others were not relevant to death.

The verdict of accidental death The verdict of accidental death

prompted outrage. Some believe prompted outrage. Some believe

prompted outrage. Some believe there were found to lived beyond

there were found to lived beyond there were found to lived beyond

there were found to lived beyond We have had to take on every part

We have had to take on every part We have had to take on every part

of the Establishment. If 95 police of the Establishment. If 95 police

of the Establishment. If 95 police forces has had been killed, we

forces has had been killed, we forces has had been killed, we

would have seen a different Her complaints and disciplinary

Her complaints and disciplinary Her complaints and disciplinary

hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

hearings against the officers came hearings against the officers came

to nothing. In 1997, there was a to nothing. In 1997, there was a

to nothing. In 1997, there was a fresh examination of the evidence.

fresh examination of the evidence. fresh examination of the evidence.

But a new inquiry was denied. But a new inquiry was denied.

But a new inquiry was denied. It is a total travesty.

It is a total travesty. It is a total travesty.

The families pursued their own The families pursued their own

The families pursued their own prosecution against the officers in

prosecution against the officers in charge at Hillsborough, Chief

charge at Hillsborough, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield

Superintendent David Duckenfield and his deputy, Superintendent

and his deputy, Superintendent and his deputy, Superintendent

Bernard Murray. After a six-week Bernard Murray. After a six-week

Bernard Murray. After a six-week trial, the jury found Murray not

trial, the jury found Murray not trial, the jury found Murray not

guilty. They failed to reach a guilty. They failed to reach a

guilty. They failed to reach a verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

verdict on Duckenfield. Once again, verdict on Duckenfield. Once again,

Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

Trevor Hicks was centre stage. Trevor Hicks was centre stage.

have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

have put this case in a court of have put this case in a court of

have put this case in a court of law as we said and we nearly won it,

law as we said and we nearly won it, law as we said and we nearly won it,

we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the

we have not lost. $$NEWLINEAnd the families didn't give up. By the

families didn't give up. By the families didn't give up. By the

20th anniversary, the calls for 20th anniversary, the calls for

20th anniversary, the calls for The government agreed to release

The government agreed to release The government agreed to release

files about the disaster. The files about the disaster. The

Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

Hillsborough Independent Panel was Hillsborough Independent Panel was

set up to review the material and set up to review the material and

set up to review the material and publish any new evidence. Their

publish any new evidence. Their publish any new evidence. Their

report last September left the report last September left the

public shocked, the families public shocked, the families

relieved, and the establishment contrite.

contrite. contrite.

Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

Renew evidence we are presented Renew evidence we are presented

with today makes clear in my view with today makes clear in my view

with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a

that these families have suffered a that these families have suffered a

double injustice -- for the new double injustice -- for the new

double injustice -- for the new evidence. The appalling events, the

evidence. The appalling events, the evidence. The appalling events, the

failure of the state to protect failure of the state to protect

failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the

their loved ones, and the their loved ones, and the

indefensible way to get the truth, indefensible way to get the truth,

indefensible way to get the truth, have an the denigration of the

have an the denigration of the have an the denigration of the

deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

deceased, that they were somehow at deceased, that they were somehow at

fault for their own deaths. So on fault for their own deaths. So on

fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government on the

behalf of the government on the behalf of the government on the

contrary, I am profoundly sorry if contrary, I am profoundly sorry if

contrary, I am profoundly sorry if this double injustice has been left

this double injustice has been left this double injustice has been left

without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

without correction for so long. without correction for so long.

We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

We feel for the first time in a We feel for the first time in a

long time that we are on the brink long time that we are on the brink

of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

of a breakthrough. of a breakthrough.

The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

The end of a 23-year fight for the The end of a 23-year fight for the

truth was only the start of the truth was only the start of the

truth was only the start of the search for justice. The report said

search for justice. The report said search for justice. The report said

search for justice. The report said as many as 41 of the Hillsborough

as many as 41 of the Hillsborough victims could potentially have

victims could potentially have victims could potentially have

survived if the emergency response survived if the emergency response

had been better. had been better.

$$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the $$NEWLINEBefore Christmas, the

accidental death verdicts were accidental death verdicts were

overturned. Lord Justice Goldring overturned. Lord Justice Goldring

overturned. Lord Justice Goldring will conduct new inquests, and the

will conduct new inquests, and the will conduct new inquests, and the

will conduct new inquests, and the law has been changed so they do not

law has been changed so they do not law has been changed so they do not

law has been changed so they do not have to be held in Sheffield.

have to be held in Sheffield. have to be held in Sheffield.

the depth and length of that the depth and length of that

the depth and length of that judgment, we could not have got

judgment, we could not have got judgment, we could not have got

judgment, we could not have got better if we had written it ourself.

better if we had written it ourself. better if we had written it ourself.

The long campaign has dominated The long campaign has dominated

Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter

Trevor's life. Meanwhile, Peter McGuinness rose through the ranks

McGuinness rose through the ranks to become a Detective

to become a Detective Superintendent, investigating some

Superintendent, investigating some Superintendent, investigating some

of South Yorkshire's most serious crimes.

crimes. crimes.

crimes. The two men have been on each

The two men have been on each The two men have been on each

other's minds, but their only other's minds, but their only

contact was Trevor's letter, contact was Trevor's letter,

commending Peter's efforts, written commending Peter's efforts, written

commending Peter's efforts, written I am on my way to meet Peter

I am on my way to meet Peter I am on my way to meet Peter

I am on my way to meet Peter McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

McGuinness, the last time I saw him, McGuinness, the last time I saw him,

he was a PC. I have only been back he was a PC. I have only been back

he was a PC. I have only been back to Hillsborough a couple of times

to Hillsborough a couple of times to Hillsborough a couple of times

to Hillsborough a couple of times and I still find it quaint daunting.

and I still find it quaint daunting. and I still find it quaint daunting.

and I still find it quaint daunting. -- quite. It by can answer any

-- quite. It by can answer any -- quite. It by can answer any

questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

questions he still has after 23 questions he still has after 23

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. years, it is worthwhile -- if I can.

years, it is worthwhile -- if I can. I do not not want to give him the

I do not not want to give him the I do not not want to give him the

I do not not want to give him the opportunity to do that. This is a

opportunity to do that. This is a opportunity to do that. This is a

opportunity to do that. This is a man to man meeting, it has nothing

man to man meeting, it has nothing man to man meeting, it has nothing

man to man meeting, it has nothing to do with the campaign, this is

to do with the campaign, this is to do with the campaign, this is

to do with the campaign, this is long overdue and I want to thank

long overdue and I want to thank long overdue and I want to thank

long overdue and I want to thank the guy and hopefully have a chat.

the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

the guy and hopefully have a chat. the guy and hopefully have a chat.

He may be able to fill a few banks. He may be able to fill a few banks.

He may be able to fill a few banks. He courageously wants to command

He courageously wants to command He courageously wants to command

He courageously wants to command what police officers did on the day

what police officers did on the day what police officers did on the day

what police officers did on the day and I think that is laudable and I

and I think that is laudable and I and I think that is laudable and I

and I think that is laudable and I think that is the main reason why I

think that is the main reason why I Trevor is the one who has lost two

Trevor is the one who has lost two Trevor is the one who has lost two

Trevor is the one who has lost two daughters, I have lost our body. It

daughters, I have lost our body. It daughters, I have lost our body. It

was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

was a dramatic experience and those was a dramatic experience and those

memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

memories stay with you -- was to memories stay with you -- was to

nobody. Trevor is the one this is focused around.

focused around. focused around.

focused around. As haunting as the trip back to

As haunting as the trip back to As haunting as the trip back to

Hillsborough must be for him, this Hillsborough must be for him, this

Hillsborough must be for him, this is familiar territory for Trevor.

is familiar territory for Trevor. is familiar territory for Trevor.

This haven of remembrance, a This haven of remembrance, a

This haven of remembrance, a memorial garden he helped raise the

memorial garden he helped raise the memorial garden he helped raise the

funds to build, was provided for funds to build, was provided for

funds to build, was provided for the bereaved to sit and reflect.

the bereaved to sit and reflect. Trepidation, anticipation. All the

Trepidation, anticipation. All the Trepidation, anticipation. All the

emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

emotions. It is something that is emotions. It is something that is

long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

long overdue and so there is an long overdue and so there is an

element of guilt that I should have element of guilt that I should have

element of guilt that I should have done it sooner. Apprehensive that

done it sooner. Apprehensive that done it sooner. Apprehensive that

done it sooner. Apprehensive that it goes well on all those fronts,

it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well on all those fronts,

it goes well on all those fronts, it goes well for Trevor and that

it goes well for Trevor and that it goes well for Trevor and that

the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

the message comes across of what the message comes across of what

we're trying to achieve and to we we're trying to achieve and to we

we're trying to achieve and to we are trying to acknowledge in this.

are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

are trying to acknowledge in this. are trying to acknowledge in this.

I just hope it goes right and it is I just hope it goes right and it is

I just hope it goes right and it is not a negative experience for

Trevor, a long time, a very long Trevor, a long time, a very long

Trevor, a long time, a very long time. Apologies for not doing this

time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

time. Apologies for not doing this time. Apologies for not doing this

a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot a lot sooner. What can I say? A lot

to say, a lot to ask. There is! to say, a lot to ask. There is!

to say, a lot to ask. There is! When we get over the initial

When we get over the initial When we get over the initial

embarrassment. I could not not embarrassment. I could not not

embarrassment. I could not not afforded the opportunity to meet.

afforded the opportunity to meet. - afford you.

- afford you. After that initial awkwardness

After that initial awkwardness After that initial awkwardness

subsides, they begin to reflect on subsides, they begin to reflect on

subsides, they begin to reflect on what has brought them together.

what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

what has brought them together. what has brought them together.

I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

I have a copy of a letter you cent, I have a copy of a letter you cent,

I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

I kept a copy. I meant it.It I kept a copy. I meant it.It

struck me as a measure of you bet struck me as a measure of you bet

against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

against those terrible backdrops, against those terrible backdrops,

everything you have to face and the everything you have to face and the

everything you have to face and the battle you were starting, to take

battle you were starting, to take battle you were starting, to take

battle you were starting, to take the time to write that and to thank

the time to write that and to thank the time to write that and to thank

the time to write that and to thank me, which was not needed. I felt it

me, which was not needed. I felt it me, which was not needed. I felt it

me, which was not needed. I felt it was, that is why I felt this was

was, that is why I felt this was overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

overdue, meeting face-to-face. It overdue, meeting face-to-face. It

overdue, meeting face-to-face. It is good to shake your hand and his

is good to shake your hand and his is good to shake your hand and his

A difficult 23 years. It has taken A difficult 23 years. It has taken

A difficult 23 years. It has taken its toll. David and Goliath.

its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

its toll. David and Goliath. its toll. David and Goliath.

Be it is not just me, I am a Be it is not just me, I am a

Be it is not just me, I am a figurehead. Like today, there are

figurehead. Like today, there are figurehead. Like today, there are

figurehead. Like today, there are two of May, the chairman does his

two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

two of May, the chairman does his two of May, the chairman does his

job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

job as best he can -- there are two job as best he can -- there are two

of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

of me. I am a politician myself in of me. I am a politician myself in

some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

some ways. And there is the real me, some ways. And there is the real me,

part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

part of what you see today. They part of what you see today. They

only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

only saw you as the father of the only saw you as the father of the

key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is

key and Sarah. -- Victoria. That is not the public face, but public

not the public face, but public not the public face, but public

face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

face is the Hillsborough campaigner. face is the Hillsborough campaigner.

I am a nicer person in some ways I am a nicer person in some ways

I am a nicer person in some ways after Hillsborough. And as I say,

after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

after Hillsborough. And as I say, after Hillsborough. And as I say,

you have to make the best of a bad job.

job. job.

job. In a person's wife, things were run

In a person's wife, things were run In a person's wife, things were run

parallel and my daughter has gone parallel and my daughter has gone

parallel and my daughter has gone to Liverpool University. Sarah was

to Liverpool University. Sarah was to Liverpool University. Sarah was

that Liverpool and there is a that Liverpool and there is a

that Liverpool and there is a memorial garden for her. Meeting

memorial garden for her. Meeting memorial garden for her. Meeting

memorial garden for her. Meeting and you, you on my personal hero

and you, you on my personal hero and you, you on my personal hero

and you, you on my personal hero and you also represent the on the

and you also represent the on the and you also represent the on the

and you also represent the on the beat bobbies he did a good job on

beat bobbies he did a good job on beat bobbies he did a good job on

beat bobbies he did a good job on the day. Some did not and some did

the day. Some did not and some did the day. Some did not and some did

the day. Some did not and some did and I have always said, I have said

and I have always said, I have said and I have always said, I have said

and I have always said, I have said it a lot of time, -- times, a

it a lot of time, -- times, a it a lot of time, -- times, a

policeman is a civilian in uniform. policeman is a civilian in uniform.

policeman is a civilian in uniform. We always look at things

We always look at things We always look at things

We always look at things differently in the light of a life-

differently in the light of a life- differently in the light of a life-

changing experience and you see the changing experience and you see the

changing experience and you see the good guys and the bad guys.

good guys and the bad guys. good guys and the bad guys.

Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

Unfortunately, some of the villains Unfortunately, some of the villains

as we see them, not as South as we see them, not as South

as we see them, not as South Yorkshire Police would see them,

Yorkshire Police would see them, Yorkshire Police would see them,

but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

but they are dead now. Sometimes, but they are dead now. Sometimes,

that is a problem, that sound bite. that is a problem, that sound bite.

that is a problem, that sound bite. People talk about how South

People talk about how South People talk about how South

Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

Yorkshire Police see them. Pole Yorkshire Police see them. Pole

macro is made up of a lot of macro is made up of a lot of

macro is made up of a lot of individuals and they do not think

individuals and they do not think individuals and they do not think

as a block -- South Yorkshire as a block -- South Yorkshire

Police. People have different Police. People have different

Police. People have different Police. People have different

opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

opinions and a lot of people were opinions and a lot of people were

there on the day and we all saw there on the day and we all saw

there on the day and we all saw people tried their best. People

people tried their best. People people tried their best. People

cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

cannot comprehend, we know what it cannot comprehend, we know what it

was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

was like, it was like he war-zone. was like, it was like he war-zone.

To see young people dead and dying To see young people dead and dying

To see young people dead and dying all around, but people sometimes

all around, but people sometimes all around, but people sometimes

forget that. And Liverpool fans, forget that. And Liverpool fans,

forget that. And Liverpool fans, paramedics, police, they did do a

paramedics, police, they did do a paramedics, police, they did do a

tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

tremendously good job on the day. tremendously good job on the day.

Having met in front of the cameras, Having met in front of the cameras,

Having met in front of the cameras, they want to discuss some things

they want to discuss some things they want to discuss some things

they want to discuss some things that are still too personal and too

that are still too personal and too that are still too personal and too

painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

painful to discuss in public. So painful to discuss in public. So

they are going to do that now in private.

private. private.

Peter and Trevor hadn't met since Peter and Trevor hadn't met since

Peter and Trevor hadn't met since the disaster. Time has dulled the

the disaster. Time has dulled the the disaster. Time has dulled the

the disaster. Time has dulled the raw emotion of that day, but both

raw emotion of that day, but both raw emotion of that day, but both

men were unprepared for the men were unprepared for the

men were unprepared for the strength of feeling stirred up by

strength of feeling stirred up by strength of feeling stirred up by

today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

today's reunion. Surprised by how today's reunion. Surprised by how

anxious I was as we walked in. The anxious I was as we walked in. The

anxious I was as we walked in. The first feeling was, I was quite

first feeling was, I was quite first feeling was, I was quite

relieved. It is like waiting for relieved. It is like waiting for

relieved. It is like waiting for the dentist, the waiting is worse

the dentist, the waiting is worse the dentist, the waiting is worse

the dentist, the waiting is worse than the treatment. A lot of people

than the treatment. A lot of people than the treatment. A lot of people

than the treatment. A lot of people do not realise I am more nervous

do not realise I am more nervous do not realise I am more nervous

do not realise I am more nervous than I, cos sometimes and it was a

than I, cos sometimes and it was a than I, cos sometimes and it was a

than I, cos sometimes and it was a big day and I was not quite sure

big day and I was not quite sure big day and I was not quite sure

what his reaction would be. what his reaction would be.

what his reaction would be. wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

wanted Trevor to be comfortable but wanted Trevor to be comfortable but

I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

I became uncomfortable myself. I do I became uncomfortable myself. I do

not know if that was a macho not know if that was a macho

not know if that was a macho barrier, but my instinct would have

barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

barrier, but my instinct would have barrier, but my instinct would have

been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

been to give him a hug, as I did been to give him a hug, as I did

those years back in hospital when I those years back in hospital when I

those years back in hospital when I told him the terrible news. But

told him the terrible news. But told him the terrible news. But

somehow, the Hogg became a stiff somehow, the Hogg became a stiff

somehow, the Hogg became a stiff handshake and I think it was

handshake and I think it was handshake and I think it was

handshake and I think it was similar with him. -- hug. It was

similar with him. -- hug. It was similar with him. -- hug. It was

similar with him. -- hug. It was awkward at first but it was a quick

awkward at first but it was a quick awkward at first but it was a quick

awkward at first but it was a quick bonding process. He is such a nice

bonding process. He is such a nice bonding process. He is such a nice

bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

bloke, having been through so much, bloke, having been through so much,

and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

and you feel for him and you can and you feel for him and you can

see has pain still coming out in see has pain still coming out in

see has pain still coming out in all aspects of his conversation.

all aspects of his conversation. all aspects of his conversation.

all aspects of his conversation. was it really nice guy. We talked

was it really nice guy. We talked was it really nice guy. We talked

was it really nice guy. We talked about a few things on the day and

about a few things on the day and about a few things on the day and

his recollections were similar to mine.

mine. mine.

mine. He said this is something you were

He said this is something you were He said this is something you were

doing for Trevor, have you taken doing for Trevor, have you taken

doing for Trevor, have you taken something positive from this? --

something positive from this? -- something positive from this? --

something positive from this? -- you said. I have, more so than I

you said. I have, more so than I you said. I have, more so than I

thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

thought. After 30 years, you think thought. After 30 years, you think

you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

you're hard and two aspects of life you're hard and two aspects of life

and death. But getting back to the and death. But getting back to the

and death. But getting back to the human interaction with Trevor, it

human interaction with Trevor, it human interaction with Trevor, it

human interaction with Trevor, it is a great reaction -- a quick

is a great reaction -- a quick is a great reaction -- a quick

reminder of, what is this about? reminder of, what is this about?

reminder of, what is this about? This is about his daughters,

This is about his daughters, This is about his daughters,

Victoria and Sarah, and the other Victoria and Sarah, and the other

Victoria and Sarah, and the other victims. Among us that, there was

victims. Among us that, there was victims. Among us that, there was

victims. Among us that, there was such a tragic story -- among that.

such a tragic story -- among that. such a tragic story -- among that.

such a tragic story -- among that. Are there was a lot to talk about

Are there was a lot to talk about Are there was a lot to talk about

Are there was a lot to talk about so we will have a few meetings and

so we will have a few meetings and so we will have a few meetings and

so we will have a few meetings and the future -- there is a lot. We

the future -- there is a lot. We the future -- there is a lot. We

the future -- there is a lot. We will get in touch sub -- separately

will get in touch sub -- separately will get in touch sub -- separately

and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

and have other meetings, we will and have other meetings, we will

have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

have more time. We need to build on have more time. We need to build on

this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

this, we will meet again and talk this, we will meet again and talk

in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

in more detail about things. If he in more detail about things. If he

can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

can take comfort from that and I can take comfort from that and I

can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

can help pimp in any way I can. can help pimp in any way I can.

Just meeting. -- help him. It was Just meeting. -- help him. It was

Just meeting. -- help him. It was good talking about that moment.

good talking about that moment. good talking about that moment.

Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

Two sides commit closer, perhaps? Two sides commit closer, perhaps?

- coming. You are in danger of - coming. You are in danger of

- coming. You are in danger of being presumptuous for him lot of

being presumptuous for him lot of being presumptuous for him lot of

being presumptuous for him lot of people and that is not my place. It

people and that is not my place. It people and that is not my place. It

has been symbolic for Trevor and has been symbolic for Trevor and

has been symbolic for Trevor and for me, reflecting back on those

for me, reflecting back on those for me, reflecting back on those

for me, reflecting back on those days, and I think it is symbolic of

days, and I think it is symbolic of days, and I think it is symbolic of

people may be reminding themselves people may be reminding themselves

people may be reminding themselves about the efforts some people did

about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

about the efforts some people did about the efforts some people did

go to on that day. It may have some go to on that day. It may have some

symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

symbolism, but reconciliation can symbolism, but reconciliation can

only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

only come when there is balance on only come when there is balance on

each side and people feel that they each side and people feel that they

each side and people feel that they have travelled to where they need

have travelled to where they need have travelled to where they need

have travelled to where they need to be. With have crossed a personal

to be. With have crossed a personal to be. With have crossed a personal

divide. -- we have crossed. He divide. -- we have crossed. He

divide. -- we have crossed. He might have a different opinion to

might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

might have a different opinion to might have a different opinion to

me, but I did not see this as two me, but I did not see this as two

me, but I did not see this as two sides, South Yorkshire Police and

sides, South Yorkshire Police and sides, South Yorkshire Police and

sides, South Yorkshire Police and the families. I see this as me and

the families. I see this as me and the families. I see this as me and

an individual saying thank you to an individual saying thank you to

an individual saying thank you to another individual who was a young

another individual who was a young another individual who was a young

another individual who was a young police officer on the day for what

police officer on the day for what police officer on the day for what

police officer on the day for what he did to help. Trevor felt the

he did to help. Trevor felt the he did to help. Trevor felt the

he did to help. Trevor felt the need to meet me and maybe that is

need to meet me and maybe that is need to meet me and maybe that is

need to meet me and maybe that is part of something on his journey. I

part of something on his journey. I part of something on his journey. I

do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

do not think it lessens their do not think it lessens their

desire for truth, I do not think it desire for truth, I do not think it

desire for truth, I do not think it lessens their desire for justice, I

lessens their desire for justice, I lessens their desire for justice, I

lessens their desire for justice, I do not think it diminishes any of

do not think it diminishes any of do not think it diminishes any of

those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

those factors, let's be clear on those factors, let's be clear on

that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

that. But a pink if people are at that. But a pink if people are at

some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

some point -- but I think of some some point -- but I think of some

people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

people do at some stage want to people do at some stage want to

move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

move on and are looking for comfort, move on and are looking for comfort,

a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

a reconciliation has to be a good a reconciliation has to be a good

thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

thing, but only if it is balanced thing, but only if it is balanced

on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

on each side. At there will come a on each side. At there will come a

time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

time, I do not think for a couple time, I do not think for a couple

of years, went there was a more of years, went there was a more

of years, went there was a more across the board reconciliation --

across the board reconciliation -- across the board reconciliation --

across the board reconciliation -- and where there is. But that time

and where there is. But that time and where there is. But that time

is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

is obviously not at the moment. is obviously not at the moment.

The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

The party see you. Pleasure to meet The party see you. Pleasure to meet

The party see you. Pleasure to meet you. -- it is good to see you. I

you. -- it is good to see you. I you. -- it is good to see you. I

hope we meet again. Look after hope we meet again. Look after

hope we meet again. Look after yourself. And you for coming.

yourself. And you for coming. yourself. And you for coming.

thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

thank you. The same to you. thank you. The same to you.

This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

This is essentially just a story of This is essentially just a story of

two men who meet again after two two men who meet again after two

two men who meet again after two decades apart. But the wider

decades apart. But the wider decades apart. But the wider

resonance is hard to ignore. resonance is hard to ignore.

resonance is hard to ignore. Justice for the bereaved is still

Justice for the bereaved is still Justice for the bereaved is still

to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

to be achieved and reconciliation to be achieved and reconciliation

seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

seems a long way off. But maybe, seems a long way off. But maybe,

one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

one day, two men meeting in a park one day, two men meeting in a park

might be seen as a small step along A remarkable reunion. And in

A remarkable reunion. And in A remarkable reunion. And in

tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter

tribute to Trevor Hicks and Peter McGuinness who wanted to make them

McGuinness who wanted to make them McGuinness who wanted to make them

meeting public -- a tribute. That meeting public -- a tribute. That

meeting public -- a tribute. That is it from Hillsborough, but you

is it from Hillsborough, but you is it from Hillsborough, but you

can watch the programme again on the iPlayer.

the iPlayer. the iPlayer.

the iPlayer. Make sure you join us next week.

Make sure you join us next week. Make sure you join us next week.

Rediscover the true scale of Rediscover the true scale of

Rediscover the true scale of malnutrition in our bigger city and

malnutrition in our bigger city and malnutrition in our bigger city and

malnutrition in our bigger city and find out what is being done to help