18/07/2011 Newsnight Scotland


18/07/2011

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for today. It was meant to be the first the of the MPs having their

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summer break. -- the first day. On Newsnight Scotland, the long

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awaited defence decisions are announced. RAF lookers will lose

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the RAF and fighters, but Scotland will gain a significant part of the

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British Army. Lossiemouth will remain open, but Redford Barracks

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is to close. Good evening. The Scottish defence secretary it

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outlines his plans to increase the number of personnel in Scotland. He

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is criticised by the shadow Secretary. In the House of Commons,

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the UK's defence transformation statement had it very Caledonian

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feel to it. It had been well tot up, so we knew today's announcement

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would be having big changes. We are determined to be bold and ambitious.

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What does this mean for Scotland? As widely predicted, there is now

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just one ear based law of of the border. -- 1 the airport base north

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of the border. The RAF has left some basis, but the army will move

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into Kinloss. Whilst the army is shrinking, the number of soldiers

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based in Scotland is set to triple. Thousands of soldiers based in

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Germany will return to the UK. In Edinburgh, all three backs will be

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sold. A new Super backs will be built on the old era force base. --

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giant barracks. There will be a new army training area in southern

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Scotland. There is safe base will Taken together, this represents a

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significant increase in the defence blueprint of Scotland. This is in

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line with the Scottish tradition of supporting our armed forces. It is

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a recognition that these are United Kingdom forces under the crone

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protecting the United Kingdom. is important to insure the armed

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forces are properly provided for, but there will be fury in Fife. The

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RAF had been based there for 70 years, and it is a matter of deep

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regret that the Government has broken this link. This footage

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shows the Queen's first visit to Fife in 1937. Deviation in the town

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dates back to 1937. Today marks the end of any rough. There has been

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here defence carried on here for the best part of 100 years, and the

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reason why it is being carried on 24 hours a day at this very day is

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because it is in the right place to do the right job at the right time.

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The base is believed to be worth �50 million to the local economy.

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Now the army is coming here, but the planes will leave in 2013, and

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it could be 2016 before a military units are set up. What happens in

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between? I do not think that gap will manifest itself in the way

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people envisage. A lot of investment will need to come in so

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that it can be made ready for the change in use. Cheers in

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Lossiemouth as locals there heard that the planes would be coming to

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them. Their nine-month campaign was successful. We said from the onset

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we would fight this campaign and not allow you decisions to be made

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about the people of Moray without having our voices heard in

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Westminster. That is what we have done. Huge sense of relief. Nine

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months of pain and agony ended today. Really big decision for us.

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Last two is already home to at the bombers, the jet planes will move

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there in 2013. There was good news for at the neighbouring RAF base.

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They knew the RAF were leaving, but now they have learned that the army

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will be coming their by 2015. It has been a bittersweet day for the

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forces in Scotland. For the first time in many years we have our

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share of personnel in Scotland when these plans are finished that will

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reflect our size of the UK populace. In that sense, it represents

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natural justice for Scotland, but we have to make sure the rough

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justice for some of the bases does not end up in adverse economic

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effect. There followed from this battle will emerge as politicians

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ball over the small print. -- that the results. We could not find a

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minister that was available to join us from the government. I am joined

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by the Labour shadow defence minister and Angus Robertson of the

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SNP. Angus, you must be delighted. I am delighted in the sense that

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the campaign in Moray to retain Lossiemouth and in Kinloss has won

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through after a ten-month campaign, and my thanks quite to everybody

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who has been involved. -- My thanks call-out. But that is bittersweet

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because all the political parties in Scotland agreed that we

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supported the retention of both RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Leuchars as air

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bases. Scotland had or only two based his operational after RAF

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Kinloss began winding down, and we thought there was a future for two

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air base is in Scotland. Sadly, the Westminster government has decided

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that is not the case, but in RAF Leuchars case, the change of use

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will see the army moved in. Bittersweet, but on personnel

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numbers, a very welcome rise for the army, the establishment of a

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mobile brigade in Scotland, but we will see more than 50 % of RAF

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personnel in Scotland cut, and certainly not commented on in

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detail, nearly 100 % of the Royal Marine contingent in Scotland which

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were based in Angus, very specific reasons, their amphibious

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capabilities. That will be moving to the south coast of England, and

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we are not entirely sure what that means for the future. It is a very

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mixed bag, not forgetting that buried in today's announcement is

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confirmation that the divisional commander over Scotland, Northern

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Ireland and northern England, which has operated outside Edinburgh, is

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being cut in its entirety, so we will lose at very senior level of

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military commander in Scotland. we focus on not we are -- on what

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we are not sure about, if the SNP had a clear strategy, or any

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strategy at all, about commitments, what would enable us to meet

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commitments, do you think you could have made all these arguments are a

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lot more effectively? I think we have made them effectively and that

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is why we have won through in some areas, by highlighting the very

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capable facility that is based there, so we can interact with our

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Nordic neighbours and commitments for the wider region. We

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successfully made the case that in the last 10 years there has been a

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significant loss of jobs. There has been a multi-billion-pound defence

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underspend in Scotland, a literally anaemic presence for the army.

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Under Labour there will only 3,000 troops in Scotland. That is why we

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will increase that and it has been able for the Conservatives to

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announce that this is a good thing. Up until now, it has been pretty

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anaemic with only 3,000 men and women from army battalions. That is

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to be welcomed. Let us be clear, Scotland has done badly out of UK

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decision-making on defence, but I do not think any party in Scotland

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would be cutting the air force by 50 % and the Royal Marines by 100 %.

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If we look at Labour's comments, they look a bit over rot. The army

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presence will double in Scotland, there is a lot of expertise coming

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into Scotland. That is correct in one respect. We will see increasing

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numbers, and that is good. Around 1,200 extra, anything up to 1000

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extra. What the Secretary of State did not identify today, and he was

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questioned at a time after time, nor identification of what all this

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is going to cost at the end of the day. The RAF are moving out and the

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army moving in. That comes with a cost, and there is nothing here to

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back up what that will cost us overall. He spoke about an extra

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�1.5 billion of equipment, but only 30 % of that will be in this

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Parliament. The think we are spending too much, too little on

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defence? Some of this is quite a way down the road, and what we need

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to see in these duties... I agree with Angus, there has been some

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hard campaigning and the people in Lossiemouth deserve all the credit,

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but what we do not need to see in any of these communities is a gap

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between now and whenever the army moved in, either Kinloss or RAF

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Leuchars, because... Are you making an economic our strategy argument?

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The question I am answering is an economic one. We have seen

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businesses closing down and house prices falling. The economics is

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difficult to square. What you are seeing is whatever the cost, we

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have to pay for defence jobs. not just about strategic value, and

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I do worry about that. What we have got is a decision today which has

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come 10 months after a strategic defence review where there was no

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strategy there whatsoever. I am not absolutely convinced that what we

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have got is the right decision either, and to a certain extent I

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agree with what Angus is saying in terms of liquors in particular. --

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RAF Leuchars in particular. It was there for 70 years, a strategic

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location. That will be a hard Angus Robertson, looking at

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strategic forward planning, what do you think should happen with

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Lossiemouth? Should the Joint Strike fighters go there, or are

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strategic advantages further undermined? I am trying to

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understand the detail from today's statement. Unfortunately the am Fox

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did not answer these questions when I oppose them. -- unfortunately,

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Liam Fox did not answer. I suspect we will see the quick action jets

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from Leuchars move to Lossiemouth, two squadrons, the operational

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Conversion Unit, the Tornado Training Squadron, remaining. And

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one other operational squadron, as well as the simulators in the RAF

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Regiment. That would maintain personnel numbers at Lossiemouth,

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but you would be right to point out that tornadoes will be taken out of

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service and that some undetermined point in the future we will have

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the next generation of fast jets come in. In 2005, the RAF concluded

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that Lossiemouth was the bath bath -- the best fast jet base in the UK

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to host the next generation of fast jets. We are meant to be co-

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ordinating with Norway, who are also getting these jets.

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Lossiemouth is best placed for our long-term future with fast jets.

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wonder why you think you need two air bases in Scotland. The bigger

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picture I am asking about his were you to design a forces profile for

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an independent Scotland, would it be a terribly bad fit to have won

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their base and a large army contingent? It would be important

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to have an air facility like Lossiemouth and a mobile army and

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brigade coming in. These are things an independent Scotland would need

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and it is to be welcomed. There are capability gaps at present, no

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transportation aircraft based in Scotland, no helicopters based in

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Scotland and a number of army functions not based in Scotland.

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While there is progress in that said, -- sons, or the changes would

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need to be made. Rossor, do you think these changes to the army are

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significant? -- Russell Brown, do you think? There is a degree of

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sense but there is a tremendous amount of small print to be looked

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at. There was quite a lot of air coming from the Secretary of State

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and no real answers. Angus is talking about an independent

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Scotland. If there is a threat at what we have seen in terms of the

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Strategic Defence Review, what would be worse is an independent

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Scotland. Angus talks about his Nordic neighbours, Norway, a part

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of NATO. An independent Scotland would not be part of NATO. We

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should not forget these things. are out of time, I am sorry, to

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discuss the wider implications. But thank you both very much indeed.

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I am joined from Edinburgh by the Defence expert Trevor Royle. Thank

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you for coming in. How significant do you think the changes will be

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for the Army as we know it so far? Very significant for the army. I

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think what we are seeing is a return almost two pre-Second World

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War Scotland, we are seeing the army's footprint extend across the

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country, we will see poor George being retained, which I welcome,

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possibly the army moving into Arbroath -- we will see Porter

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George being retained. Forces are coming back from Germany, the

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Defence Secretary Liam Fox has said we will do that. That get rid of a

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lot of local social problems as well. Both Kinloss and Leuchars

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will suffer from the end of the RAF presence, but I'm sure they will

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welcome the army units when they come. The only caveat I have, I

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denigrate, quite honestly, the absence of the army from Edinburgh.

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I think those closures are most unfortunate, and as Angus Robertson

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said, the absence of a separate command structure in Scotland. It

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looks as though the Army in Scotland for the first time in the

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long history of a British Army connection with Scotland, will be

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represented by a brigade structure. So you think we have to look at the

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small print? What about the idea of increasing the reservists? Some

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people have said this is an army on the cheap and it is difficult for

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employers to facilitate? Defence Secretary Liam Fox said we

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were copying other countries like America, Canada and Australia. Of

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course we are, but they have much larger armed forces. I think

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reserve forces have a very distinct role to play. Look at the way the

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National Guards plays a very strong role in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Asking our Territorial Army to do exactly the same, it seems to me

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and it will seem to a lot of people serving in the regular Army who can

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see numbers cut from 100,000 down to 80,000, that we are now looking

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for Defence on the cheap. We know the Joint Strike fighters

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were supposed to going to Leuchars, how important do you think it is

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that they go into Lossiemouth and there is that kind of capability in

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that part of the country? I don't think we should be too tied up with

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numbers. We had three air force bases in Scotland for a long time.

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Kinross was always going to go once Nimrods have been axed. I think the

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differences between Lossiemouth and Leuchars are minimal. The problem

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always will be overload. At the moment, Lossiemouth has -- is going

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to be the focus for just about all our strike fighter aircraft in

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Scotland. What happens if things change in the rest of the world and

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we certainly need to have operational Conversion Unit, more

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training and, as you say, a joint strike fighter coming in? As Harold

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Macmillan always said, what happens when events take over. When you

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look at what political parties are saying about defence strategy and

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the allegation that this has been driven by costs rather than

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strategy, the criticisms some have made about the SNP not having great

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clarity in their defence strategy, do you think there is enough

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forward planning for what we need in the future, and how will

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Scotland be placed to meet that? The short answer is no. Last

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October when the strategic defence review was put in place, there was

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nothing of the kind. We were not trying to marry our commitments to

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what we had available to us. It means, I think, we are still

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struggling to try to discover what level of forces we need, what we

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are going to do in the world. Scotland has only a very minor part

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in that, down the years Scotland has always been very important for

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training and also we have a huge land mass, which is very important

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for the services. At the moment I don't think we have it worked out

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properly. Trevor Royle, thank you. A very quick look at the papers.

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The Scotsman leads with this story, they take on it is Fox unveils

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defence plan to save the Union. Leuchars Air Base closure confirmed,

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but Scotland gets new barracks. That's it from me, a very good

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This evening. Cloudy and damp tonight, a grey start tomorrow. A

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bit of brightness developing away from some western coasts and hills,

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but that will be enough to hat -- to add energy to the atmosphere.

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Some of the were showers across north-east England, slow-moving,

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heavy and thundery. North-west England is still fairly cloudy.

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There will be some showers in the south, but well scattered. There

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will be some brightness, if not sunshine, between. Sunshine

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possible in the south coast, staying cloudy across Cornwall and

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northern Devon, the showers will ease a little bit. South-east and

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Wales seeing a cloud break, but a cloudy day to the north with little

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brightness. There will be some brightness in Northern Ireland,

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most will be dry. The best sunshine is Scotland, plenty of cloud to the

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north. The prospects from Tuesday until Wednesday, there will not be

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a huge amount of change. The wind will ease and there will be some

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showers across Scotland, the heaviest in the south-west. For

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England and Wales, the difference from Tuesday to Wednesday will be

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increased cloud. The Tempest conditions on Wednesday will tend

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