Browse content similar to 26/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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On Newsnight Scotland tonight, a look back at a week which may prove | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
historic and a look forward to what happens next. Will the Salmond plan | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
for organising the referendum sweep all before it, or will the two | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
government consultations meet in the middle and create a breakout of | :00:20. | :00:28. | |
Good evening. If it's true that even the longest journey begins | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
with a single step, then Scotland has begun to head for the distant | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
horizon of autumn 2014. Brace yourself - we're in for a long trek. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Two consultations are under way similtaneously. Two questions are | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
jostling for attention. Two governments are claiming ownership. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
So far, we haven't even heard from the Scots themselves. We'll discuss | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
what the people think in a minute. First, Derek Bateman looks at the | :00:52. | :01:02. | |
:01:02. | :01:09. | ||
It is the evolution of modern Scotland. We are at the very early | :01:09. | :01:17. | |
stages of development. The consultation begins and we head | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
into the first indicator of opinion, the local elections, and at the end | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
of the consultation, there follows a statement on the legislative | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
programme and finalisation of the bill. Early next year, it incubate | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
in Holly route, then emerges in October and get a royal assent. | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
There will be a White Paper on independence to give life to the | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
debate, leading into the European elections. There's a hiatus. And in | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
summer, the fledgling plan enters the critical 16 week gestation | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
period. Then, with 28 days to go, the government... We vote in the | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
autumn. Scotland are mergers fully grown into an independent nation. - | :02:07. | :02:17. | |
:02:17. | :02:18. | ||
- emerges. Or not. Doors opening. Here's another note for your diary. | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
May 2016, when Scott the next goes to the polls. But there are few | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
issues to be resolved before then. Notably the second question, the | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
one that will not go away. Is it really the trump card of the unions | :02:32. | :02:39. | |
politicians? Aren't you boxing yourself in by saying no to his | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
second question and at the same time making this referendum legally | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
binding? It doesn't give you any wriggle room if the Scots decide | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
actually, we are going to say yes. There's no fall-back position for | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
the unions either. The SNP won a clear mandate for a referendum on | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
independence in the Scottish parliament last year. Very | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
important that a referendum is able to offer both a legal result and | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
one that is clear and decisive and that is why having a single | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
question on the subject of independence is the right way | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
forward and this is what the SNP proposed yesterday and I welcome | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
that. But this is an argument that will happen. We have to engage in | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
the debate and win the argument. I believe we can, but we shouldn't be | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
looking for fall-back positions always to get around this, we | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
should be engaging in the debate and winning it. Will you still be | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
saying that if in a year's time, the opinion polls say 50% for yes | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
and 50% for no? Yes because I think the case for Scots and Scotland | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
within the UK is overwhelmingly powerful in terms of the economic | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
advantages we as Got Game, the political advantages, that strength | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
as part of us and common currency, the social ties that exist across | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
the UK. All of those things are very powerful arguments for the UK | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
and most Scots will choose that route, I think. The theme ran | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
through today's Holyrood debate as members signed a claim of right in | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
1989. The irony being that the SNP did not sign vent and many of those | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
who did now say that Westminster North overrides the will of the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
people. Do we still believe in the fundamental right of the people, | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
not just to make choices, but are determined the choices available to | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
them? I doubt that the people of Scotland would have any | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
reservations about that and I hope no member of this Parliament today | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
has any reservations either. The Tories at that time were consistent. | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
They opposed any change to the UK and that at least was a clear | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
position, if in my view a wholly mistaken one. The other party which | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
refused to support the claim of right or work within the | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
constitution was the SNP. The very same party who are calling on us | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
today to vote for a motion which is an extract from the 1989 Claim of | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
Right. We had barely clues about key topics that First Minister's | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
Questions. First Minister conceded sycophant live -- significant leak | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
that the Bank of England would be the lender of last resort. Will | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
that mean that John Swinney not only brings his Budget to this | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
chamber, but he has to go to the Bank of England to ask permission | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
on how much he can borrow, what his fiscal policies will be and how | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
much he can spend? We know the First Minister told us this week he | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
is an avowed and a file. Is he not taking it a bit too far? I heard | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
her deputy leader on the radio this morning saying that if Scotland has | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
a monetary union and the Bank of England is lender of last resort, | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
Scotland would lose the ability to set interest rates. I have news for | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
the Labour Party. Their politicians lost the ability to set interest | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
rates on 6th May, 1997, when Gordon Brown declared the Bank of England | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
independent. We got a glimpse of the chasm that exists between the | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
sides. But at least we have kicked off the process that will lead to | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
decision day 24 team. Tonight, Newsnight won this confession from | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
Westminster. There have been some silly suggestions and questions | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
going about lately, including one that that panders might be removed | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
from Edinburgh Zoo because they are a gift to the UK government. | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
think the pandas at Edinburgh Zoo have more pressing business than | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
whether or not they are part of a constitutional debate. I hope they | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
will be at Edinburgh Zoo for many years. | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
I'm joined now by three of Scotland's senior political | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
commentators. Here in Glasgow, Lorraine Davidson and Magnus | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
Linklater, and in Edinburgh, Ian Macwhirter. Good evening to you all. | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
The rain, now the dust has settled after the great events of yesterday, | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
where are we going? The next obvious step will be the result of | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
both the consultations, the Scottish governance and UK | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
governments, and we will probably see surprisingly different results | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
despite asking the same people about the same issue. It is now | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
over to the people of Scotland to come back and say whether they | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
support the question that everyone is going to be looking for. Do they | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
support a third question on that ballot paper? Are you suggesting | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
these consultations are not fair and independent minded works of | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
politics? A suspect anyone who is part of civic Scotland and is in | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
favour of the question is probably going to see the Scottish | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
government consultation as a way of pushing back rather than the | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
Westminster consultation. You were in the Great Hall yesterday, as | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
many of us were. What did you make of Alex Salmond's used a VAT venue | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
and where do you think that takes us? What does it tell us about | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
where this will go? Very typical Alex Salmond gesture. Tremendous | :08:04. | :08:12. | |
atmosphere, I have to say. Winds howling around outside, the world's | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
media there and Alex Salmond on the platform. Once again, he is on the | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
front foot, no question about it. He has set the agenda and the | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
consultation will begin with a very, very strong wind behind him. But a | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
whole lot of questions still waiting to be answered. Why do we | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
have to wait until 20th November 13 before we get the answers to a lot | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
of those questions -- 2013. It is a long time to wait, can't the SNP | :08:45. | :08:55. | |
:08:55. | :09:03. | ||
tell us now what they mean by The question that has been post, in | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
its simplicity, wrong-footed many of its critics. Many of their | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
critics thought it would be all pay, ambiguous, on a devious formulation. | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
It was thought there would be another question on Devo Max | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
proposed from the outset, so that Alex Salmond could win at both ends. | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
By playing it straight, they commanded the news agenda for at | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
least the first 24 hours, and that his bed difficult to argue with the | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
question that has been proposed. Do you agree that Scotland should be | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
an independent country? People are criticising it. Lord Forsyth has | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
said that it is a red and Alastair Darling has also said it is right | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
and will be unacceptable to the Electoral Commission. The criticism | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
up here has been very muted and it will be difficult to pick that a | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
part. If we're going to have a debate over the next few years | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
about this, if we do not know precisely what the SNP mean by E | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
independence until the SNP Publishing 24 exactly what they | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
mean, -- 2014, what is the point of a debate between now and then? | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
First of all, the Scotland Bill going through Westminster has to | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
get on to the statutes. This proposes some quite substantial | :10:28. | :10:36. | |
powers for the Scottish Parliament. This was the original reason they | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
propose a referendum in the second half of the parliament. The | :10:41. | :10:49. | |
consultation goes on until 20th November 13, then the period that | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
the gold report proposed. The timetable was fairly clear and | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
fairly reasonable. I cannot see anyone particularly objecting to | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
that. The very question of what the SNP mean by independence, that is | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
what has to be discussed and debated fully and the run-up to the | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
election. If they had rushed ahead, and somewhere saying it is time to | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
go ahead and have a referendum on independence is shortly after | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
winning the overwhelming landslide majority in May. Had they gone for | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
an early election, they would have been accused of bouncing Scotland | :11:24. | :11:34. | |
and the decision. For this reason, they have not debated exactly what | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
independent means. The other big argument is Devo Max. There was | :11:40. | :11:49. | |
less detail than the SNP have even provided in the past. Why was that? | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
It is there as apparently the most popular choice north and south of | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
the border, but people know very little about it and its | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
implications. The more you look at Devo Max, the more you realise that | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
if it is on the ballot paper and people vote for it, we are voting | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
for a federal, at best United Kingdom. It is a unilateral | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
declaration of federalism, is it not? For it would have a greater | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
impact south of the border as well as north. There would have to be a | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
complete rewriting of the British constitution. No one has begun to | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
think through the implications. is one of the implications not that | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
this to be a proposal the Liberal Democrats would be in favour of? | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
think you need to separate two issues. The Liberal Democrats have | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
got their commission going on just now. They are a federalist party, | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
as you point out. Many in the Labour Party say they are open to | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
the idea of more powers. The question is, why are you not | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
embracing this? The problem they have with this is that if they | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
start campaigning for Devo Max today, they will have real | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
difficulty trying to explain it. As a Unionist Party, trying to explain | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
how this will run in the rest of the UK and all of the difficult | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
decisions that need to be made alongside it. They are nowhere near | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
being able to do that in time for a referendum. When people asked in | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
opinion polls, what is your preferred option, they always they | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
that they want more powers for the Scottish Parliament. What if they | :13:30. | :13:40. | |
had called the Kalman Commission not that but instead, Devo Max. | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
What do people mean when they say pollsters in the street that they | :13:44. | :13:51. | |
want Devo Max or more powers? not quite his Vegas all that. The | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
Liberal Democrats always proposed a federal reshaping of the United | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
Kingdom constitution, and Magnus is right, it would have implications | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
for England. England is increasingly in the mood for change | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
in the relationships between the component parts of the United | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
Kingdom. Federalism does have a long and dignified history and it | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
is in operation in many parts of the world. Many would say that | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
federalism is actually a more plausible or comprehensive, or more | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
easily understood, formulation than the SNP's proposal of independence. | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
There saying that for all services excluding defence and foreign | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
affairs, these to be carried out in Scotland. I disagree completely. I | :14:38. | :14:45. | |
do not think it is true to say that federalism is easier to understand. | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
Independence is very easy to understand. Most people know | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
roughly what it means. Federalism is something that we in this | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
country are completely unfamiliar with. It has to be canvassed in | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
England as well as Scotland. I want to move a little bit to the | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
campaign, putting Devo Max aside, the Yes or No campaign. Who will | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
fund those campaigns? We know who will fund the yes campaign but who | :15:13. | :15:21. | |
will fund the no campaign? We hear that there are organisations ready | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
and taking shape who will appear, but we do not know who will head | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
them. Alastair Darling has been mentioned as one. He seems | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
reluctant, doesn't he? The question is not just who will represent the | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
pro UK argument, but what is the pro UK argument? What form of union | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
are we talking about? Are we talking about the Carmen commission | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
or Devo Max. We have to understand that the union is changing | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
significantly. Is there, do you think, anything going on behind the | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
scenes, for example, between the coalition and the Labour Party? It | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
does not strike me that there is. think there are very informal talk | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
particularly around Westminster in the tea rooms, those who are | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
interested in Scotland and have time on their hands. Those kinds of | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
informal chats that go on. There are people at Westminster who | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
realised that this is a debate that they cannot be seen to read in. | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
David Cameron has ruled himself out as well as Nick Clegg. He says that | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
anything he heads up will only do well for his opponent's! Alastair | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
Darling realises he is a Westminster politician. I am not | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
sure they will be a figure who comes and rises to the rescue of | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
the no campaigners and says I am the person to take on Alex Salmond. | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
It will be a broad selection of people from across the parties, | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
both from Westminster and from Scotland. How will that way, at Ian | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
Macwhirter? A I think that will play badly. It would be a | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
collegiate campaign with no particular leader for the no | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
campaign. Given the various elements in their no camp are | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
saying different things, that could lead to confusion. We have | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
established that the Liberal Democrats support federalism and | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
they do support federalism and Scotland. They are not saying that | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
loudly at the bomb it. Labour say they want at stronger form of | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
evolution and that the other extreme, you have Lord Forsyth, who | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
says that this referendum is illegitimate, it is illegal, it | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
should not be allowed to take place. He is urging people to take the | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
matter to the Supreme Court. There is a recipe there for utter | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
confusion. If you do not have a central focus for the campaign, | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
that campaign runs into danger. Thank you all very much for coming | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
in. A long trek to go now. Now a quick look at tomorrow's front | :18:08. | :18:18. | |
:18:18. | :18:18. | ||
pages. The Scotsman says pollsters, academics and others are divided | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
over the fairness. The Herald looks at police workers being axed next | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
year. A picture of the Chief Executive of the Royal Bank of | :18:28. | :18:34. |