06/09/2012 Newsnight Scotland

budgets are slashed, into the salt off local identity. Spain's

strategic problems cannot be On Newsnight Scotland tonight, the

Chancellor of the Exchequer tells me about his reasons for wanting to

keep Scotland in the UK. This evening, he's also been explaining

his reasoning to a sympathetic audience at the CBI Scotland Annual

Dinner. All those Scotland has always shared the benefit of the

UK's interest rates, it is very unlikely that the Government of an

independent Scotland could borrow as cheaply. It is the interest rate

on government bonds that will is one of the key determinants under

pending -- underpinning the cost of all credit, so there would be

higher interest rates. Let us be clear - independence would change

the UK's current institutional arrangements for ever. Scotland and

the rest of the UK would become a separate, foreign countries.

As the Holyrood Government consults on a new lower limit for drink-

driving, we wonder if there's a propensity for Scottish politicians

to want to legislate to control individual behaviour.

Good evening. On the day referendum talks between Nicola Sturgeon and

David Mundell are described as "good-natured and constructive",

the Chancellor of the Exchequer is in Glasgow, putting his gloss on

his reasons for opposing Scottish independence. He's not

traditionally the most popular Conservative in Scotland, but Mr

Osborne was largely among friends today as he visited an armaments

company on the Clyde and tonight, as he addressed the Scottish CBI.

His message on both occasions has been the same. Earlier today, at

the Thales plant in Govan, where they make things like submarine

periscopes, I asked him if he was here to make a positive case for

the union or scare Scots into saying no.

I am here to make a very positive case for the union. My message is

that Scotland walks taller, shouts top -- louder as part of the UK.

Top international businesses have found a great home in Scotland. I

think both Scotland and the rest of the UK have so much to do and game,

working together, over the many years ahead. We hear the director

general of the CBI talking about the potential uncertainty around

the referendum. Alex Salmond thinks the real uncertainty for business

is your economic policy and the fact it is not working. When it

comes to the independence referendum, there is a deal to be

done. Let us have it, let us have that referendum on the back end of

2014. Let us make it a single question that resolves the

uncertainty that the head of the UK CBI is talking about in Glasgow

today. That enable Scotland and the rest of the UK to move on, and it

went -- and when it comes to the economy, look at how all 85,000

jobs and the private sector have been created in Scotland over the

last couple of years, look at how affordable manufacturing jobs have

been created in Scotland. Scotland benefits from being part of a

strong United Kingdom, and a United Kingdom that is seen to have a

credible economic policy. Alex Salmond was say the reason Scotland

has outperformed the UK is because you have a separate Scottish

Government. Is it not time to change plan? Alex Salmond has had

over �1 billion extra in the last couple of years against the

spending plans I announced. I think he should have spent money on that.

All of us have to understand we have debts which we have to pay off,

but even with that, we are investing in the big infrastructure

the Scotland and the UK needs. Today, we have published a Bill

that will enable the British Government to underwrite and

guarantee big investment in the infrastructure of the future, and

we can do that because of the very credible sovereign rating and low

interest rates that the UK has. Which big infrastructure projects

for we have in Scotland? That is up to the Scottish Government. There

are guarantees are available. We can use our ability to borrow money

at low interest rates to help the entire UK economy. How much would

you give John Swinney? We are able to guarantee investment in Scotland.

I think it is a perfect example of how the UK pulls together and is

better together. Frankly, there are a lot of questions that John

Swinney and Alex Salmond have not been able to answer about the

economic policies of any -- an independent Scotland. Why would

interest rates not go up? On the currency, there are basic questions

which Alex Salmond cannot answer about monetary union with the rest

of the UK, should Scotland become independent. If he cannot do that,

the Scottish people are entitled to ask him basic questions. Do you

think an independent Scotland is sustainable? The question is, would

such -- would Scott would be better off independent? My answer is no. -

- would Scotland. Alex Salmond has to answer basic questions about how

monetary policy would operate. He says he would join the power and

Stirling area, but surely, those countries in the euro are having to

integrate their economic policies. Why would that not apply to power

on Stirling? These are basic questions which someone like the

First Minister is advocating has got to be able to answer, and

frankly, I never heard no credible answers from him all year. Lots of

people will be asking questions about why you will find growth in

fee future. -- growth in the future. It is a very difficult economic

position brought about by the problems and the UK economy, the

debts built up and having to pay those debts off, and it is not made

easier by the crisis on our doorstep and the countries we

export to in Europe and elsewhere. Of course, we have a very difficult

economic situation. People understand that. But what I would

say is that Britain is becoming a better place to do business.

Companies like this are finding this a more competitive place to

sell around the world, and this week, Britain had the entered the

top 10 countries and the world as a place to do business. That is an

amazing achievement! We are back in the top 10 list of countries.

Now, the Justice Secretary announced today that the Scottish

Government is to consult on making the drink-driving law stricter. The

Scottish Parliament only recently received the power to do that, and

Kenny McAskill has said he wants to look into bringing the permissible

alcohol level down to the the European norm or even below that.

There's no immediate plan to change the law in England. Is this simply

progressive government, or do Scottish parliamentarians have a

disproportionate tendency to make rules about how people lead their

lives? Shortly, we'll debate that, but first, Steven Duff has this

report. Kenny MacAskill insists train --

changing the drink-drive limit would not be changed for the sake

of it. Today's announcement on a consultation of reducing the limit

comes after the recent transfer of the power from Westminster to the

Scottish Parliament. Supporters say it could save lives. We know it has

the potential to save 70 Leipzig year in Scotland. It also has sent

out a clear message that it is becoming even more unacceptable.

present, the UK and mortar give motorists the most in the way,

allowing a blood alcohol level of 80 milligrams. If Scotland does

change to a limit to 50 milligrams, it would be in line with most ani -

- most other countries. The Czech Republic, Romania, Estonia,

Slovakia and Hungary have zero limits of alcohol allowed. A change

would be the latest wave we would find ourselves different from the

UK. Scotland was the part of the UK to introduce a ban on smoking in

public places. But six and a half years on, many people would find it

incredible that people allowed to smoke and pubs were allowed to do

that. At that to the risk of a minimum price of alcohol. Do

certain laws protect us? Do they protect us from ourselves? Have

they gone that bit further by telling us how to live our lives?

My mum says I should not go off with people I do not know.

Governments have tried to save us from ourselves in a heartfelt but

patronising way. To you, it is just a fridge... Over the years, they

have advised us from everything to not messing around with abandoned

fridges to how to survive a nuclear attack. If you are taken the advice,

you will come by now, have chosen your room and gather jaw no tears

for an inner refuge. -- and gathered at York materials. Some

campaigns are more hard hitting, but is there more of a tendency to

Or I did in the run-up to many laws. Other countries not so much, but

Scotland is a free country. We all think that we are quite free, and

we're not. There are far too many CCTV cameras. Atos seems so far

away from the days of day. Super in every way, we know, apart from

being able to swim so stop i am joined by two social scientists,

Professor Gerard Hastings has just published the The Marketing Matrix,

and from Dundee his doctor -- Dr Stuart Waiton, author of Snobs'

Law: Criminalising Football Fans in an Age of Innocence.

Just because politicians say that we should change our behaviour,

while the public listen? necessarily, but I do think it is a

good idea that politicians give advice and guidance and leadership

on things, like the smoke-free public places, which is a great

steps forward. Scotland led the way in Europe on that. But that

legislation has been such a success because the public were behind it,

people wanted this to happen. Both you get those two things and do

have a functioning democracy. think that might happen if the

Scottish government go-ahead on reforming the drink driving lock?

The reality is that people are killed on the road from drink-

driving. What this legislation does his says that there is really

nothing as says Met and -- a safe limit. People just have to sock --

to stop drinking if they are going to drive. Isn't one of the jobs of

a government to protect its citizens? That is all they are

doing by banning smoking, by tackling alcohol when minimum

pricing, and perhaps even by changing drink-driving laws?

Protection is the thing, because I beat described the state has in it

and -- at the minutes as a protection racket. That is what is

appears to be in terms of the number of slots - mind the number

of laws. I think we have to recognise that in the last two

decades, safety has become something of an obsession. It goes

well beyond just me advice. It starts to become a form of

moralising, which has a certain hysterical and at times irrational

content to it. Give us an example of political moralising. A good

example is a eats campaign. -- AIDS campaign. It is interesting how it

an awareness campaign gives yippies information and then you have it.

At the it yet, and then you give it -- and then the give it to you

again and again. It becomes a new morality. Ironically, we could not

will catch the disease in the way that they describe it.

The disease as an issue is not something which needed to be

tackled. Do not need to get people's attention to change their

behaviour? If you do not do that with one leaflet, you have to ram

home the message. If you could only catch the disease in the way that

they describe it, then that would be fine, but it was not true, which

is why hardly anybody outside of the high risk group Scott the

disease. -- caught the disease. There is a desperation to try to

push these messages, even when factually it is extremely

problematic. He cannot catch the disease? It is very difficult to

catch the disease outside of high risk groups.

Let us move on. Professor Gerard Hastings, to summarise that point,

politicians perhaps think that the public are a bit thick and they

keep on ramming home message after a message, information is one thing,

but trying to influence the hearer in this kind of way is going too

far? We are individuals and should be left to make up our own mind?

Politicians cannot tell us everything if we do not want to do

it. That they can change the what? De La is there as an indication as

to how we should behave. -- the law. Ultimately, the poll tax

legislation for example had to be taken out, because people do not

co-operate with it. The laws have to be intelligent, if people are

going to respect them. I am astonished that we are sitting here

arguing against legislation by government. When you see the

catastrophe of the banks over the last ten years and that is down to

a lack of regulation. Government needs to become more involved in

how the society is run, because if they do not get involved a lot of

powerful interests will do so. asked at the beginning of this

whether politicians in Scotland are more keen than other parts of the

UK or Europe to legislate on people's be there. She think there

is a point and that? There is a slight point, I would not over

exaggerate. I think that New Labour, the British Government, introduced

a new law for every single day they were in Government. It is not a

Scottish phenomenon. But because the Scottish Parliament is new, new

trends are picked a more fervently. So for example, that if --

defensive be read through all hell has taken their idea that fans

should not be a offensive and should be imprisoned if they are

offensive. The idea that people can sing songs at the audience there is

seen as criminals. Scotland as head of the game in terms of these

trends. Watching the government try to tackle next? Let us not lose

sight of the fact that governments setting -- stepping in and doing

things in a proactive way is a negative thing. We go back to the

smoking ban. One worker week in the UK was dying a result of -- as a

result of second-hand smoke. The biggest issue we have to start

thinking about is how much can some she we are doing and how that is

having an impact on the planet. Attacks on what? I do not know what

about taxes, a debate has to happen, because we are consuming more and

more or. We have run out of time. Thank you very much for joining us.