14/01/2013 Newsnight Scotland


14/01/2013

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five years the age of 68 might not On Newsnight Scotland: at what

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point would you take action if you thought a child was being sexually

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abused? After Jimmy Savile, many across the United Kingdom will have

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a wish that they acted sooner than they did. Now one Scottish charity

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says, if you are suspicious, act immediately. How do you safeguard

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children whilst avoiding the risk of making false accusations? And,

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remembering the Great War. How should we commemorate next year,

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indeed, should we commemorate at all?

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Looking back, lots of people acknowledge that Jimmy Savile was

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creepy and probably up to no good. If they reported him earlier, who

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knows? A terrible episode in Our national life and one that the

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NSPCC want to learn from. If they have started a campaign encouraging

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people to report their concerns even if they are not certain. But

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surely that has its own dangers. It was a life lived in the

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showbusiness spotlight. Bickley of celebrity blinded millions to the

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truth that Jimmy Savile was a predatory sex offenders. The

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majority of his victims were children. Plenty of people had a

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day suspicions but the presenter ultimately went to his grave,

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unpunished. One by one allegations came to light and recriminations

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were widespread as people struggled to comprehend how his crimes

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remained undetected. One consequence of the publicity

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surrounding the Jimmy Savile scandal is heightened awareness

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about child sexual abuse. There may be a willingness to do more but for

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many people, acting upon suspicions that they may have by reporting

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them to police and others an authority is a bad step to take.

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That reluctance is the target of a new campaign by the NSPCC but a TV

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advert which builds ambiguously The children's charity say that

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calls to their helpline are on the up but more than half of those who

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do Kohl have taken over a month to report their concerns. The message,

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do not wait until you are certain. When there are strong indications

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that something isn't right, people's guts tell them, this child

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is being abused. But something else says, what if I am wrong? And

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concerned about what might be the impact on the child. They are

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worried about what the backlash might be for the accused. They

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worry about all these things. On Radio Scotland this morning, in

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sight from one victim. He was a pal of the community. He

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would tell all sorts of people, old people, DIY, -- help people,

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charities, but behind closed doors, he was a very clever, manipulative,

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horrible man. The NSPCC say that there had the

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nature of the problem means it is under reported. -- the head in

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nature. The police agree. It is quite widespread, although

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that is not to say it happens in every family, most children are

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brought up in a caring, loving environment. But there is a small

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yet significant number with abuse takes place and the impact that has

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on their lives is tremendous. The worry for some is that high

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profile cases involving the sexual abuse of children are responsible

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for whipping up hysteria. The message from the charity sits

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uneasily with this lawyer. At a time when there is stories in

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the media like the Jimmy Savile won the risk is that as well as genuine

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cases you get people reporting things mistakenly or maliciously

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that are untrue. Yet they can cause serious repercussions for the

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individuals who are accused. Such is the stigma that the wisdom

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of anonymous helplines is also being questioned.

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If you don't know who is making the allegation it is hard to know if

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you should give it weight a kid at seriousness. The default position

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will be that any allegation as treated seriously. -- give it

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weight or afford it seriousness. But my concern is an innocent

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person being wrongly accused of something like this then been

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unable to escape the consequences of the allegation being made.

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One of the most disturbing episodes in national life has prompted us to

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ask how to protect society's vulnerable. A difficult question

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and no answers -- easy answers. I am joined by a representative of

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the NSPCC, and in Edinburgh, a social work consultant. Has this

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campaign emerged from the ashes of the Jimmy Savile scandal? Is it a

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reaction? There is a feeling that very few people acted over Jimmy

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Savile. The Jimmy Savile case, the

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appalling facts that have been on cover, have no doubt created a

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climate where people are asking questions. -- uncover. But it

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struck a chord in all sorts of ways. People abused by Jimmy Savile

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decades ago and unable to speak about it we're able to speak about

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it. Others who suffered unrelated abuse also felt able to speak about

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it. That raised the issues more widely in the country and we hope

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very much that this can be a watershed, that we can see our way

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to protecting children better in the future.

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You had a tremendous up lift and calls.

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Yes. People can call our helpline when they are not sure. Over

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councillors will talk through with them. Where the belief that a

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serious concern, they will pass the details on, but only when they is

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serious concern. Do you understand the response of

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the charity in the wake of the Savell allegations? -- Jimmy Savile.

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I am all for protecting children, that is not really what my concerns

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about. But there is a danger that more heat than light is being

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generated by children's charities in particular, around the issue of

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child sexual abuse. If there are real dangers with calls to report

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any and every concern and suspicion to the authorities. To what end? Do

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we know that this will protect more children or protect children? Might

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it do more harm than good? The public are not stupid and the 80%

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that the NSPCC seemed to be critical of four or not reporting

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concerns immediately had very legitimate worries about doing so.

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One of them was whether they could trust at any good would come for

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the child. Are you accusing the charities of

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creating moral panic? There are elements of moral panic,

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especially as every day brings a new story about the sexual abuse of

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children. Which is a problem... I want to pick up on that point.

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Moral panic or well intentioned? Abuse is hugely under reported. The

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most extensive study showed that children who are abused sexually in

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childhood, 72% will not tell anybody during childhood, and many

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of them won't say anything as an adult. So there is a huge problem

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and children are not been protected at the moment.

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We hear about the tremendous under- reporting of abuse from the police,

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is acting on suspicions not a way to address that?

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I quite accept that there is under reporting but that once the case

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much more for information, education, advice. Rather than the

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call to simply report. Who are we reporting to you? Who are the

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experts that know what to do? I want to pick up on that point. In

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England they it Crown Prosecution Service actually apologised for not

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picking up any prosecutions. What we are saying is serious

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concerns. People know when something is wrong with a child.

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They know how an adult behaves when profoundly disturbed. These are

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concerns we're talking about. We are saying to people, you may well

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hesitate because you are not absolutely certain, but the nature

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of sexual abuse is such that abusers will go to extraordinary

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lengths to conceal what they are doing. Be a very good at convincing

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the children it is their fault and they will get into trouble for

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telling anybody. So we really need adults to stand up. Put yourself in

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the child's shoes. What would they expect you to do? That is the

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question you should ask yourself. Would you have fate than the

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authorities once the report is made? -- faith in the authorities?

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No, but not because I think they are malevolent. Sometimes the

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result is not good. The idea of experts that we can just be a

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everything up to, and somehow there is a magic solution, that is not

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right. I want to pick up another point.

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Malicious allegations being made, some people could use that as a cue.

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How can people be protected? There is a difference between

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acting to protect a child and making an accusation against

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somebody else. There is a difference between a criminal

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proceeding and an intervention to make sure that a child is safe and

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well. Child protection has improved in this country. The police, social

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workers, the handle this as sensitively as they can. The NSPCC

:12:08.:12:18.
:12:18.:12:27.

Do you think there should be no anonymous tips? I think he is right,

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what a hot lines to a helpful, they allow people to discuss concerns so

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I would say to people that if they are concerned and in need as source

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of advice they should vote for help line because they can be useful.

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Where to help lines then say that in reporting rather than discussing

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your concerns and finding a way forward for that child and for the

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better protection of children, where there are saying report,

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report, a report, we have a situation where if an adult

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particularly a man sees a child lost in the street they tell us,

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this is a statistic, that they would be scared to help that child.

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Now, many of the thousands of war memorials across Scotland are set

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to be renovated or restored to commemorate the country's losses in

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the Great War, which started a hundred years ago next year. The

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Scottish government is allocating a million pounds to the project. It

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is one of several ways the war will be remembered. And of course, last

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year, David Cameron gave details of how the British government intends

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It has long been recognised that Scotland made it a sacrifice in the

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Great War which was disproportionate to the size of its

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population. The First Minister at chose their Aberdeen Show at

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village here to make the announcement today. 67 names are on

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this memorial. They're just from this part of the parish. As far as

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you can estimate that was one fifth of the young fighting aged men. If

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you think about that and you know that the casualty rate was almost

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twice the mortality rate, then probably half of the young fighting

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men of this village were either killed or injured in the Great War.

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This is one of the first initiatives have a great number

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we're going to make, we want to make sure that all memorials in

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Scotland are in good condition. As good as the highly commended

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memorial here. Although many are in this sort of condition, many others

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it could do with a bit of upkeep. So that we can commemorate the

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extraordinary events in respectful fashion. The Scottish Government's

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initiative is additional to plans announced by the UK Government.

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David Cameron launched his ideas last October. Whether it is a

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series of friendly football match as to mark the truce, or another

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campaign from the Royal British Legion with their iconic poppies,

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adding should get out there and make this centenary a truly

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national moment which mean something in every locality in our

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country. Some people have questioned if it is appropriate to

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hold a major commemoration but the start of the conflict rather than

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to wait for the centenary of the Armistice in 20 team. -- in 2018.

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I am joined now by Stuart Crawford, a former officer with the Royal

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Tank Regiment. He is in our Edinburgh studio. And I am joined

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in Glasgow by Professor Murray Pittock, vice-principal of Glasgow

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University. Was that the sheer scale the losses that meant this

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conflict is embedded in our national consciousness? You're

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absolutely right. To pick up a point from the First Minister, if

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you exclude Commonwealth dead in the British Total of dead was

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886,000. The Scottish National War Museum -- memorial in Edinburgh

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Castle has 180,000 names. 17 or 18% of the casualties were Scottish.

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The impact was enormous. Should be commemorate the beginning of this

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conflict rather than the end of it? In a way that is a bit questionable

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and I can see the reasons for objections. In World War and to be

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generally commemorate the beginning of the end of the war. -- World War

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II. World War I was a moment when a huge amount of your it was caught

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up in a fervour which I think we would want to avoid happening ever

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again. On the other hand it is the beginning of a period of you

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sacrifice. Especially for Scotland as we have been hearing, it it was

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unparalleled. We can see both sides of the argument and it is strange

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to commemorate the beginning in some ways. Should national

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commemoration start with the Great War or on Armistice Day? The Great

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War is the first time that warfare in general became known to the bulk

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of the jet at -- bulk of the population. Before that British

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wars were mostly abroad with a small professional army. With their

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Great War or after 1914 we have the Volunteer movement and after that

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we had conscription. In many ways it was the first war in which the

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whole population became involved. The commemoration will come in 20th

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August 14. That is in the midst of the referendum campaign. -- in 2014.

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It will it be help sensitively. but I do not think we can make

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comments on the politics. One thing I hope will be remembered and does

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not just a UK or Scottish thing, is the extent to which British forces

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from the British Empire what not just across the world but on the

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Western Front. We are prone to forget the sacrifices of Australia,

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New Zealand and Canada and India and troops of other nations. Even

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more than World War II it was a British Imperial War or and so in a

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sense it is not just about Britain, or Scotland, it is about the whole

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of the imperial nations as they then were. To take it as an Anglo-

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Scottish thing would do an injustice to all the people from

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across what became the Commonwealth. What kind of a European dimension

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could there be involving Germany, perhaps? I think that in the spirit

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of the Christmas truce which has gone down in history as being an

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interesting and unusual event, I think there's all sorts of scope

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orange all -- for involving former allies and adversaries in the

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celebrations. There we can look at the great sacrifice his of previous

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generations. Bringing in a European dimension would be very appropriate

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as 100 years approach. It was a very different sense of celebration

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for the 50th celebration in London in 1995. The First World War as

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viewed very differently, isn't it? There is no doubt about that. With

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the hindsight of everyone that fought in it, they are all dead

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effectively, it was a war that was justified and said it -- -- it was

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not a war that was justified, it was an appalling conflict. The way

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we look back at it is bound to be different but it shaped our modern

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world and that is what we should remember. But you for joining me.

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Now a quick look at tomorrow's front pages. Millions will lose out

:20:55.:20:59.

in the pensions shake-up say the Herald. And HMV is in

:20:59.:21:07.

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