15/01/2013 Newsnight Scotland


15/01/2013

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Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, three months on from the handshakes

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in Edinburgh, the gloves come off as MPs debate the transfer of

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powers to hold a referendum on independence to the Scottish

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Parliament. I'll be asking Lord Forsyth why he has a problem with

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what's been agreed. And as Gordon Strachan settles into his new job

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as Scotland manager, can he really bring the feel good factor to the

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nation? Good evening. The main political parties agree that the

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Scottish Parliament should be handed powers to hold the

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referendum on independence. But that didn't stop some strong words

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in the Commons as MPs approved the so-called Section 30 order earlier

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this evening. Tomorrow the order is in for another rough ride when it

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heads to the Lords, where Conservative peer Lord Forsyth has

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already voiced his concerns. More from him in a moment. But first

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It was meant to be a clear road to the referendum. The Scottish and UK

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governments on opposite sides of the debate but working together

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successfully to make the progress - - process leading to it as smooth

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as possible. -- the process. It was a game of give and take. The UK

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Government wanted to ensure there would be no second question. But

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the Scot is Government won the right to allow 16 and 17 year-olds

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to vote. Westminster has to give its approval. Today the House of

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Commons was debating this. Some Unionists are still worried these

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got his Government may try to ask a loaded question. Scottish Labour's

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deputy leader expressed another anxiety. I do not think anybody in

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this place should be naive about what the current make-up of the

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Scot is Government is. We have a majority SNP Government and the

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Scottish Parliament. That is not the democratic place in the

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conventional sense. It is a dictatorship of one man sitting in

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Bute House but who will do in his own interest. Scottish Secretary

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Michael Moore made the case for the deal. He warned there could be a

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price to pay 50 Scott his Government did not accept the

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Electoral Commission advice on the question. -- the Scottish

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Government. All party leaders have stated their intention to abide by

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the Commission judgment. To do otherwise would be a significant

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step to which there would be a political price. The order was

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passed on a post. Of course, there is also the House of Lords. They

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were debated tomorrow. Former Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth sit

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there. He has serious concerns about the referendum. The First

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Minister thinks they are misguided. The Government proposes, the

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Electoral Commission makes the recommendations and the parliament

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decides. That is what happens in Westminster. What sticks in the

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craw of Michael Forsyth and his colleagues is that decisions are

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being made in Scotland. If it was being made in the House of Lords

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they would be entirely comfortable. But some nationalists may welcome a

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intervention from Lord Forsyth, in the belief it may remind Scott of

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the time before devolution -- Scots. He could inadvertently help the

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referendum campaign. Earlier I spoke to the Conservative peer and

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former Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth who has tabled two

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amendments ahead of the debate in the House of Lords tomorrow. I

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asked him exactly what he's trying to do. I am trying to get the

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Scottish Government to tell us what the question is going to be, what

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the rules are with respect to the expenses and what the date is,

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before Parliament passes responsibility to the Scottish

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Parliament to pass the necessary legislation. It is very

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straightforward. The other amendment is trying to get the

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Electoral Commission, would tell me they will give their advice at the

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end of this month, on the question which Alex Salmond has proposed,

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which is, do you agree Scotland is an independent country? I would say

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yes. The issue is whether we want to be an independent state.

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want this resolved before matters are passed over to the Scottish

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Parliament? This was debated in the House of Commons today. Alistair

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Darling had a couple but attempts, and several other members had

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attempts with Angus Robertson, asking him to give an assurance

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that advice from the electoral commission would be taken by the

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SNP, as opposed to just considered. That has been the position with

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governments in every previous referendum. He refused to confirm

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that. I am just a bit worried that we may very well pass a party in

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the Scottish Parliament, which does effectively mean Alex Salmond, who

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has four in not treating these issues. You cannot trust in? I do

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not. We could end with a referendum with more reading Ben de Cutty Sark.

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I think it is responsible for Westminster to allow the Scottish

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Parliament to decide these things, but it seems to be rather curious

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that we do not know what the question, the date or the rules for

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You see it is responsible for at Westminster to get the

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responsibility to the Scottish parliament but if you amendments

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were passed you would be doing the opposite and all the decisions

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would be made before the power was handed across. On the contrary,

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this is advice to the Government. All I am saying to the Government

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is, do you not think it would be wise to get a clear indication from

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Alex Salmond of what the question is and how the advice from the

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Electoral commission on what they think is to be used? The last thing

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that we want is for a referendum where people argue that some aspect

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of it was not fair. I do not have a problem with the powers being

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passed to the Scottish parliament. I do think there is a

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responsibility as was clear from the Commons debate, to be sure of

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what Alex Salmond is up to. He did not tell the Prime Minister after

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it had been agreed that the vast majority of people thought that

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there should be a single question. The point is that whatever

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electoral commission says, even if it disagrees with Alex Salmond's

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question, the dealers that the Scottish parliament not Alex

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Salmond then decides. -- the deal is. The Scottish parliament is Alex

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Salmond. If it is then that is because people voted it that way.

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Yes, and I do not have a problem with that provided it is at ease in

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question and a fair referendum and it is not right. The question being

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proposed by Alex Salmond is one I would say yes to and I am not noted

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as a great supporter of breaking up the United Kingdom. Do you think

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that there is a danger that the British Government is being either

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are not aggressive enough on its arguments for the pointed you use

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support or becoming a bit complacent? They seem to think they

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have won this without too much effort into it. I think they're

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utterly complacent. The MoD is not making any contingency plans for or

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-- for if Scotland separates, that is considering the nuclear arms. It

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is gross negligence. The implications are very important for

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the rest of the United Kingdom. There are also important for the

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rest of the 10,000 jobs in Scotland. You were very critical of Michael

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Moore and the British Government's unwillingness to use their power to

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ask the European Union for formal statement on what an independent

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Scotland's position would be. He gave evidence to our economic

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affairs committee which will report shortly. Yes, we did give them a

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hard time we did think he was complacent. The SNP were saying

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that they would not talk to them because they were not a Government.

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That was a fair point. Therefore the Government should have asked

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the European Union for their position. There are a whole range

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of issues. At the end of the day people have to make their own minds

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up about this. But they should do this on the basis of facts and

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evidence. It is very important that we have clarity. The other

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important problem is that we could spend another few months talking

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about process and we should be talking about the issues.

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describe the Government was Mark issue as complacent. --

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Government's. Every Government department needs to publishing

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neutral terms what the issues are at four at both the rest of the

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United Kingdom and for Scotland with independence. I think we also

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need to know what issues could be decided in advance of the

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referendum. And what be subject to negotiation as well. Someone from

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the panel that visors for Alex Salmond says that the post and

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associations could go on for one year. Goodness knows what happens

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to jobs and investment if we have that degree of uncertainty for so

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long. We need to do this with their eyes wide open. I do very much

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indeed. The constitutional future may still

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be an clear but at least we know we're heading back that up as far

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as the national football team is concerned. The women of Gordon

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Strachan has been widely welcomed. Some are old enough to remember his

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contributions on the field. It is a long time since the Scottish

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national team was a fixture. There at the ease that the spectacular

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failure to match expectations in Argentina in 1978 contributed to

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the size of the No vote in the devolution referendum of 1979. Is

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to the football ambitions and a little more and muted. I would like

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to avoid finishing last. success of the Olympics last year

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was widely thought to have cheered up everyone in Britain. Could the

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Scottish national football side to the side for Scotland. Does it have

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to be fit all? Andy Murray is still on the hunt for the Open tennis

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championship. With me now is Tom English, sports

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writer with the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday. And Professor

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Raymond Boyle from Glasgow University who has written on the

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cultural impact of sport on society. It you would be key you would be it

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that has been vilified sooner rather than later. A I think he has

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a lot of support out there. He has the track record to make you

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believe that better times ahead. He has the charisma to galvanise the

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sport. Has he got the players to make that happen? I think the

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players are better than they are showing. The results have been very

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sure that -- have been very poor. They can be better than that. Craig

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Levein did a very poor job, the players are better than that.

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it matter whether the Scottish football team is any good? I think

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it does because all national teams resonate beyond their sport. When

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for example Ireland came back from the 1990 World Cup they was all --

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over one quarter of a million people in Dublin. There were not

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born quarter of a million football fans in the country at that time.

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It moves beyond the sport. In what sense? At the very basic level in

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the feel-good factor. That feel- good factor it may be pretty

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ephemeral. Unquestionably it makes a lot of people feel better about

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themselves. Scotland has not been suffering from lack of self-

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confidence since the Scottish parliament was set up. That entire

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period has seen fit all being rubbish. But there is an

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interesting correlation between the lack of success winner has been a

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parliament. Traditionally the notion has been that national teams

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become more important when there is a lack of a political voice. When

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there is a lack of an international projection of Scotland, for example,

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abroad. Since we have had the parliament of the Scottish team has

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been poor. And it does raise the question of whether the impact of

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that would be the same as it might have been in the 70s. What you

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think of this? On the national mood? What you think it matters

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whether sporting teams are good? course it does. If you look at the

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Grand Slam of 1990, at the whole country went mad. If you look at

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the national football team being a disaster for four or five years,

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when Scotland beat France in Paris, with that wonder goals, though when

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she went crazy. It does affect the mood. Isn't the Olympic affect

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wearing of already? Are you a sports journalist, who really

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remembers a less they are reminded of it that wonder goal against

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France? A lot of people would. A big a lot of people watching will

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remember that. They will remember where they wear. These things that

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in the mind forever. Politicians certainly want to remember it.

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There is a long tradition of politicians trying to feed off the

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sporting glory that might come. Sport is a very uncertain cultural

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form to look towards to have purely 6SN. Most teams take part and fail.

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But that does not stop politicians of all political persuasions tried

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to get a bit of the stardust from sporting success. It does it have

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to be fit all? Andy Murray? Football is so dominant in this

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country. Yet two choices you could build those harmed in and put

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tennis courts on it or you could hope that the national team could

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galvanise itself because that is where the fans are. Do you agree?

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