Browse content similar to 15/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, three months on from the handshakes | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
in Edinburgh, the gloves come off as MPs debate the transfer of | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
powers to hold a referendum on independence to the Scottish | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
Parliament. I'll be asking Lord Forsyth why he has a problem with | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
what's been agreed. And as Gordon Strachan settles into his new job | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
as Scotland manager, can he really bring the feel good factor to the | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
nation? Good evening. The main political parties agree that the | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Scottish Parliament should be handed powers to hold the | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
referendum on independence. But that didn't stop some strong words | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in the Commons as MPs approved the so-called Section 30 order earlier | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
this evening. Tomorrow the order is in for another rough ride when it | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
heads to the Lords, where Conservative peer Lord Forsyth has | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
already voiced his concerns. More from him in a moment. But first | :00:57. | :01:07. | |
:01:07. | :01:13. | ||
It was meant to be a clear road to the referendum. The Scottish and UK | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
governments on opposite sides of the debate but working together | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
successfully to make the progress - - process leading to it as smooth | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
:01:31. | :01:33. | ||
as possible. -- the process. It was a game of give and take. The UK | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
Government wanted to ensure there would be no second question. But | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
the Scot is Government won the right to allow 16 and 17 year-olds | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
to vote. Westminster has to give its approval. Today the House of | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
Commons was debating this. Some Unionists are still worried these | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
got his Government may try to ask a loaded question. Scottish Labour's | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
deputy leader expressed another anxiety. I do not think anybody in | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
this place should be naive about what the current make-up of the | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
Scot is Government is. We have a majority SNP Government and the | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
Scottish Parliament. That is not the democratic place in the | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
conventional sense. It is a dictatorship of one man sitting in | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
Bute House but who will do in his own interest. Scottish Secretary | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
Michael Moore made the case for the deal. He warned there could be a | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
price to pay 50 Scott his Government did not accept the | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
Electoral Commission advice on the question. -- the Scottish | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
Government. All party leaders have stated their intention to abide by | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
the Commission judgment. To do otherwise would be a significant | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
step to which there would be a political price. The order was | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
passed on a post. Of course, there is also the House of Lords. They | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
were debated tomorrow. Former Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth sit | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
there. He has serious concerns about the referendum. The First | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
Minister thinks they are misguided. The Government proposes, the | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Electoral Commission makes the recommendations and the parliament | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
decides. That is what happens in Westminster. What sticks in the | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
craw of Michael Forsyth and his colleagues is that decisions are | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
being made in Scotland. If it was being made in the House of Lords | :03:34. | :03:44. | |
they would be entirely comfortable. But some nationalists may welcome a | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
intervention from Lord Forsyth, in the belief it may remind Scott of | :03:48. | :03:57. | |
the time before devolution -- Scots. He could inadvertently help the | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
referendum campaign. Earlier I spoke to the Conservative peer and | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
former Scottish Secretary Lord Forsyth who has tabled two | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
amendments ahead of the debate in the House of Lords tomorrow. I | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
asked him exactly what he's trying to do. I am trying to get the | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Scottish Government to tell us what the question is going to be, what | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
the rules are with respect to the expenses and what the date is, | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
before Parliament passes responsibility to the Scottish | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
Parliament to pass the necessary legislation. It is very | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
straightforward. The other amendment is trying to get the | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
Electoral Commission, would tell me they will give their advice at the | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
end of this month, on the question which Alex Salmond has proposed, | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
which is, do you agree Scotland is an independent country? I would say | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
yes. The issue is whether we want to be an independent state. | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
want this resolved before matters are passed over to the Scottish | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
Parliament? This was debated in the House of Commons today. Alistair | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
Darling had a couple but attempts, and several other members had | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
attempts with Angus Robertson, asking him to give an assurance | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
that advice from the electoral commission would be taken by the | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
SNP, as opposed to just considered. That has been the position with | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
governments in every previous referendum. He refused to confirm | :05:22. | :05:31. | |
that. I am just a bit worried that we may very well pass a party in | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
the Scottish Parliament, which does effectively mean Alex Salmond, who | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
has four in not treating these issues. You cannot trust in? I do | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
not. We could end with a referendum with more reading Ben de Cutty Sark. | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
I think it is responsible for Westminster to allow the Scottish | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
Parliament to decide these things, but it seems to be rather curious | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
that we do not know what the question, the date or the rules for | :06:00. | :06:10. | |
:06:10. | :06:11. | ||
You see it is responsible for at Westminster to get the | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
responsibility to the Scottish parliament but if you amendments | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
were passed you would be doing the opposite and all the decisions | :06:17. | :06:25. | |
would be made before the power was handed across. On the contrary, | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
this is advice to the Government. All I am saying to the Government | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
is, do you not think it would be wise to get a clear indication from | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
Alex Salmond of what the question is and how the advice from the | :06:38. | :06:48. | |
Electoral commission on what they think is to be used? The last thing | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
that we want is for a referendum where people argue that some aspect | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
of it was not fair. I do not have a problem with the powers being | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
passed to the Scottish parliament. I do think there is a | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
responsibility as was clear from the Commons debate, to be sure of | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
what Alex Salmond is up to. He did not tell the Prime Minister after | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
it had been agreed that the vast majority of people thought that | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
there should be a single question. The point is that whatever | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
electoral commission says, even if it disagrees with Alex Salmond's | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
question, the dealers that the Scottish parliament not Alex | :07:33. | :07:41. | |
Salmond then decides. -- the deal is. The Scottish parliament is Alex | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Salmond. If it is then that is because people voted it that way. | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
Yes, and I do not have a problem with that provided it is at ease in | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
question and a fair referendum and it is not right. The question being | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
proposed by Alex Salmond is one I would say yes to and I am not noted | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
as a great supporter of breaking up the United Kingdom. Do you think | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
that there is a danger that the British Government is being either | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
are not aggressive enough on its arguments for the pointed you use | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
support or becoming a bit complacent? They seem to think they | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
have won this without too much effort into it. I think they're | :08:27. | :08:37. | |
utterly complacent. The MoD is not making any contingency plans for or | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
-- for if Scotland separates, that is considering the nuclear arms. It | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
is gross negligence. The implications are very important for | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
the rest of the United Kingdom. There are also important for the | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
rest of the 10,000 jobs in Scotland. You were very critical of Michael | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
Moore and the British Government's unwillingness to use their power to | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
ask the European Union for formal statement on what an independent | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Scotland's position would be. He gave evidence to our economic | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
affairs committee which will report shortly. Yes, we did give them a | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
hard time we did think he was complacent. The SNP were saying | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
that they would not talk to them because they were not a Government. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
That was a fair point. Therefore the Government should have asked | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
the European Union for their position. There are a whole range | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
of issues. At the end of the day people have to make their own minds | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
up about this. But they should do this on the basis of facts and | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
evidence. It is very important that we have clarity. The other | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
important problem is that we could spend another few months talking | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
about process and we should be talking about the issues. | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
describe the Government was Mark issue as complacent. -- | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
Government's. Every Government department needs to publishing | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
neutral terms what the issues are at four at both the rest of the | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
United Kingdom and for Scotland with independence. I think we also | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
need to know what issues could be decided in advance of the | :10:22. | :10:30. | |
referendum. And what be subject to negotiation as well. Someone from | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
the panel that visors for Alex Salmond says that the post and | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
associations could go on for one year. Goodness knows what happens | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
to jobs and investment if we have that degree of uncertainty for so | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
long. We need to do this with their eyes wide open. I do very much | :10:47. | :10:57. | |
:10:57. | :11:00. | ||
indeed. The constitutional future may still | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
be an clear but at least we know we're heading back that up as far | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
as the national football team is concerned. The women of Gordon | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
Strachan has been widely welcomed. Some are old enough to remember his | :11:12. | :11:22. | |
:11:22. | :11:28. | ||
contributions on the field. It is a long time since the Scottish | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
national team was a fixture. There at the ease that the spectacular | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
failure to match expectations in Argentina in 1978 contributed to | :11:40. | :11:49. | |
the size of the No vote in the devolution referendum of 1979. Is | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
to the football ambitions and a little more and muted. I would like | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
to avoid finishing last. success of the Olympics last year | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
was widely thought to have cheered up everyone in Britain. Could the | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
Scottish national football side to the side for Scotland. Does it have | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
to be fit all? Andy Murray is still on the hunt for the Open tennis | :12:16. | :12:26. | |
:12:26. | :12:27. | ||
championship. With me now is Tom English, sports | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
writer with the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday. And Professor | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
Raymond Boyle from Glasgow University who has written on the | :12:32. | :12:42. | |
:12:42. | :12:43. | ||
cultural impact of sport on society. It you would be key you would be it | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
that has been vilified sooner rather than later. A I think he has | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
a lot of support out there. He has the track record to make you | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
believe that better times ahead. He has the charisma to galvanise the | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
sport. Has he got the players to make that happen? I think the | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
players are better than they are showing. The results have been very | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
sure that -- have been very poor. They can be better than that. Craig | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
Levein did a very poor job, the players are better than that. | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
it matter whether the Scottish football team is any good? I think | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
it does because all national teams resonate beyond their sport. When | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
for example Ireland came back from the 1990 World Cup they was all -- | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
over one quarter of a million people in Dublin. There were not | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
born quarter of a million football fans in the country at that time. | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
It moves beyond the sport. In what sense? At the very basic level in | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
the feel-good factor. That feel- good factor it may be pretty | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
ephemeral. Unquestionably it makes a lot of people feel better about | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
themselves. Scotland has not been suffering from lack of self- | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
confidence since the Scottish parliament was set up. That entire | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
period has seen fit all being rubbish. But there is an | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
interesting correlation between the lack of success winner has been a | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
parliament. Traditionally the notion has been that national teams | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
become more important when there is a lack of a political voice. When | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
there is a lack of an international projection of Scotland, for example, | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
abroad. Since we have had the parliament of the Scottish team has | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
been poor. And it does raise the question of whether the impact of | :14:40. | :14:49. | |
that would be the same as it might have been in the 70s. What you | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
think of this? On the national mood? What you think it matters | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
whether sporting teams are good? course it does. If you look at the | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
Grand Slam of 1990, at the whole country went mad. If you look at | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
the national football team being a disaster for four or five years, | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
when Scotland beat France in Paris, with that wonder goals, though when | :15:12. | :15:22. | |
:15:22. | :15:22. | ||
she went crazy. It does affect the mood. Isn't the Olympic affect | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
wearing of already? Are you a sports journalist, who really | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
remembers a less they are reminded of it that wonder goal against | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
France? A lot of people would. A big a lot of people watching will | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
remember that. They will remember where they wear. These things that | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
in the mind forever. Politicians certainly want to remember it. | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
There is a long tradition of politicians trying to feed off the | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
sporting glory that might come. Sport is a very uncertain cultural | :15:53. | :16:00. | |
form to look towards to have purely 6SN. Most teams take part and fail. | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
But that does not stop politicians of all political persuasions tried | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
to get a bit of the stardust from sporting success. It does it have | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
to be fit all? Andy Murray? Football is so dominant in this | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
country. Yet two choices you could build those harmed in and put | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
tennis courts on it or you could hope that the national team could | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
galvanise itself because that is where the fans are. Do you agree? | :16:27. | :16:31. |