Browse content similar to 17/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, on Newsnight Scotland. At her Anglican funeral in London, | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
Margaret Thatcher's memorable address to the Church of Scotland | 0:00:06 | 0:00:16 | |
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is recalled. And all her paths are We'll speak to one minister who was | 0:00:26 | 0:00:32 | |
at the General Assembly meeting that day, 25 years ago. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
And, congratulations Mr Swinney - new jobs announced, unemployment | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
down, economic growth up, but why is it happening and can anyone take | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
the credit? Good evening. It was a State | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
funeral in all but name and a deeply Christian funeral in every | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
sense. In the course of it the Bishop of | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
London recalled the day, a quarter of a century ago, when Margaret | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
Thatcher came to Edinburgh to explain to the Church of Scotland | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
how the gospels shaped her political thinking. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
The Sermon on the Mound, as it was dubbed, was controversial then and | 0:00:59 | 0:01:09 | |
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We come to this cathedral today to remember before God Margaret Hilda | 0:01:33 | 0:01:43 | |
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Have I discovered joy within myself or am I still looking for it in | 0:01:58 | 0:02:05 | |
externals, outside myself? Margaret Thatcher had a sense of this which | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
she express in her address to the General Assembly of the Church of | 0:02:09 | 0:02:17 | |
Scotland when she said, "I leave you with the earnest hope that may | 0:02:17 | 0:02:22 | |
we all come nearer ." May we all come nearer to that other country | 0:02:22 | 0:02:32 | |
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whose ways are ways of gentleness I'm joined now by the Reverend | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
Johnston Mackay, a former head of BBC Scotland Religious Programmes, | 0:02:56 | 0:03:01 | |
who was at that General Assembly meeting 25 years ago. What was your | 0:03:01 | 0:03:09 | |
memory of it? My memory of it is of the General Assembly which is a | 0:03:09 | 0:03:15 | |
very courtious body being extremely courteous in listening to what Mrs | 0:03:15 | 0:03:21 | |
Thatcher, as she then was, said. I suspect two-thirds of those who | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
were present, a would have disagrade with her, b would have | 0:03:25 | 0:03:30 | |
voted against her. They gave her a round of applause, didn't they at | 0:03:30 | 0:03:37 | |
the end? Well...The mist making and why do we have these rituals, | 0:03:37 | 0:03:42 | |
there has been myth making about that event, hasn't there? The | 0:03:42 | 0:03:48 | |
picture presented now these furious members of the Church of Scotland | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
subjected to harangue, it wasn't like that at all? That isn't my | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
recollection of it. I was there as a BBC journalist. My recollection | 0:03:57 | 0:04:04 | |
was that they listened to her in polite silence. At the end of her | 0:04:04 | 0:04:11 | |
speech applauded her fairly roundly and off it went. It was... Well, it | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
happened. The other thing I don't know whether it's myth making or | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
not, is this idea now, I heard it repeated on the television the | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
other night, at that time, because there was no Scottish Parliament | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
somehow or other the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
was viewed as a surrogate Parliament. Surely most people in | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
Scotland in the late 190's that would have been the furthest thing | 0:04:35 | 0:04:40 | |
from their minds? That was constantly said, but never said by | 0:04:40 | 0:04:44 | |
anybody, to my knowledge in the Church of Scotland. It was the sort | 0:04:44 | 0:04:50 | |
of thing that lazy journalists like to -- liked to say... It mass | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
become common currency? It was the sort of thing, because the Church | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
of Scotland had a Church of Nation Committee which had a day in those | 0:05:00 | 0:05:06 | |
days which debated heaven, earth and all creation, people got the | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
impression this was somehow the nearest thing to a Scottish | 0:05:09 | 0:05:15 | |
Parliament that was, I have to say, constantly repeated by politicians | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
who came to the Assembly and said - you are the nearest thing we have | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
to a Scottish Parliament. You're debates are better than those in | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
Parliament, God help us for what Parliament must have been like! | 0:05:26 | 0:05:33 | |
That is how the myth was created. Right. Look, putting your Reverend | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
hat on for a minute, what did you make of today? This been discussing | 0:05:38 | 0:05:43 | |
whether... It was a daeply Christian ceremony, wasn't it? | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
thought it was a very Christian ceremony -- deeply. Am I supposed | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
to say I didn't think that was a good idea. Of course I don't expect | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
you to say that. I'm curious whether you thought the state | 0:05:57 | 0:06:02 | |
nature of it was appropriate, the military aspect was appropriate? | 0:06:02 | 0:06:06 | |
Whether everyone who I have heard today was quite impressed by the | 0:06:06 | 0:06:12 | |
most strictly religious bits of it? I had grave reservations about the | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
military and the state aspect of. It I thought there was bound to be | 0:06:17 | 0:06:23 | |
a degree of state aspect there. I thought it impressive. I watched it | 0:06:23 | 0:06:29 | |
right through. I was very touched by the way that everybody who took | 0:06:29 | 0:06:35 | |
part in it was attempting to relate this, from my point of view, to the | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
Christian gospel. In many ways it is the funeral of a public figure | 0:06:39 | 0:06:47 | |
that I have ever seen which was overtly and clearly Christian, as | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
indeed obviously Margaret... If you think they succeeded doing that, | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
what about the meeting on the Mound her definition of Christianity? | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
That is a different thing. I don't think her definition of | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
Christianity was the definition of Christianity that the Bishop of | 0:07:04 | 0:07:12 | |
London was telling us about, nor in the prayers... It was the Good Is a | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
mariton thing? Her thing was that the thing about the good Samaritan | 0:07:16 | 0:07:21 | |
was that he had money to give it away. That is not and never has | 0:07:21 | 0:07:27 | |
been the purpose of the par bell. To go back to the service today. I | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
thought, none the less, people were constantly attempting to address a | 0:07:32 | 0:07:38 | |
public figure, in relation to the Christian gospel and the way they | 0:07:38 | 0:07:44 | |
had tried to work out how their faith and their political will and | 0:07:44 | 0:07:49 | |
their political policies matched up. Now, I may have lots of criticisms | 0:07:49 | 0:07:54 | |
of Mrs Thatcher as to whether she succeeded in that, but that she | 0:07:54 | 0:08:00 | |
attempted to do so is something I applaud. Right. The Bishop of | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
London gets an A in diplomacy if not sermons by the way he managed | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
to square it, she didn't quite mean that about society? I think the | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
Bishop of London always gets an a for diplomacy. He was a rough | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
contemporary of mine at university. He has always been a very, very | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
good diplomat. All right. Thank you very much indeed. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
There was a pretty impressive set of economic figures for the | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
Scottish Government to brag about today, and they did. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
Not unreasonable, given that unemployment here is down to under | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
200,000 for the first time in three years; and economic growth is up, | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
neither of which can be said for the rest of the UK. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Why is that? We'll be discussing that in a few | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
moments, but first Andrew Black looks at the figures and who should | 0:08:43 | 0:08:53 | |
0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | ||
Finance Secretary, John Swinney, was out and about spreading his | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
message about Scotland's economy. Visiting Scottish Power's new | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
offices he says the latest figures show Scotland is out performing the | 0:09:06 | 0:09:11 | |
UK as a a whole. What do they say? Scottish unemployment fell by | 0:09:11 | 0:09:16 | |
11,000 between December and February to stand at 19 7,000. The | 0:09:16 | 0:09:23 | |
number of people in jobs increased by 39,000 to reach just over 2.5 | 0:09:23 | 0:09:27 | |
million. The biggest recorded rise in 12 years. How do those figures | 0:09:27 | 0:09:33 | |
chime with Britain as a whole? Well, the Scottish jobless rate stands at | 0:09:33 | 0:09:40 | |
7.3% compared to the UK average of 7.9%. Meanwhile, new Scottish | 0:09:40 | 0:09:46 | |
government data says Scotland's economy grew by 0.5% in 2013 while | 0:09:46 | 0:09:52 | |
the UK economy as a whole shrunk by 0.3%. That demonstrates the value | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
and the strength of the approach that we are taking to investment in | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
the economy by concentrating on investment in capital | 0:09:58 | 0:10:03 | |
infrastructure in Scotland, creating employment and we see that | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
into the employment data, where we had a substantial rise in | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
employment and substantial fall in unemployment. This is a day of | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
positive news about the the Scottish economy. More work needs | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
to be done, we are clearly moving in the right direction. The SNP's | 0:10:18 | 0:10:24 | |
opponents say that is a bit rich. It is silly to claim credit for | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
everything that goes well North of the border, but blame Westminster | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
for anything that goes wrong. The figures today are good. The figures | 0:10:32 | 0:10:37 | |
are now getting below 200,000 unemployed people is good. It's | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
still 200,000 people who are without a job. That is why the | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
combined efforts of both the Westminster government and the | 0:10:43 | 0:10:48 | |
Scottish government is what we need to do. Looking beyond the raw | 0:10:48 | 0:10:55 | |
statistics throws up more questions. The Scottish Parliament's | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
Employment Committee warned of unemployed, people doing jobs for | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
which they are over qualified like university graduates working in | 0:11:02 | 0:11:09 | |
pubs. When the employers told us they thought it was better that | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
people being ununderstood employed thand being over employed it keeps | 0:11:12 | 0:11:19 | |
up their skills. Many people who suffered under employment said they | 0:11:19 | 0:11:25 | |
lost Mott vaition and drop in their income. There are negative impacts | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
on individuals being under employed. There are other things going on. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:35 | |
Women don't seem to have benefited from the fall in unemployment. Very | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
long-term unemployment increased again across all age groups. It is | 0:11:38 | 0:11:44 | |
good news overall. The question is - why is it happening? | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
So, what is going on? Joining me now is Emily Thomson | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
from Glasgow Caledonian University, who's made a particular study of | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
women in the Scottish jobs market, and Professor David Bell of the | 0:11:53 | 0:12:03 | |
0:12:03 | 0:12:03 | ||
Scottish Economic Policy Forum at Is there anything here that enables | 0:12:03 | 0:12:09 | |
us to say that there is a divergence between Scotland and the | 0:12:09 | 0:12:16 | |
UK than when there was unemployment here? This is the strongest signal | 0:12:16 | 0:12:24 | |
of some kind of diversance. Both the data do look relatively good in | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
Scotland's favour, so to speak. We still are lagging well behind where | 0:12:29 | 0:12:34 | |
we were in 200. If we look historically, things aren't that | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
great. If we look compared with the rest of the UK, at the moment, at | 0:12:39 | 0:12:44 | |
least, things don't look too bad. Will is an argument that what we | 0:12:44 | 0:12:50 | |
have seen, particularly in the south of England is a bump up and a | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
nosedive down as a result of the Olympics which didn't have an | 0:12:53 | 0:13:00 | |
affect on the north of England and Scotland is that why comparatively | 0:13:00 | 0:13:05 | |
the figures look... Yes. Looking at industry by industry, Scotland | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
seems to be doing well in the production sector. Not as badly as | 0:13:10 | 0:13:15 | |
England is doing in terms of construction. Also energy is | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
performing very, very well in Scotland. Right. What did you make | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
of these figures? It's early encouraging figures, we have to | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
remember that the employment data is only a snapshot. It's quarterly. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
If we look at the last two years, for example, if we look at the | 0:13:31 | 0:13:37 | |
impact that the recession had on womens' employment particularly we | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
have a drop of 25,000 women in the labour market over the last two | 0:13:41 | 0:13:48 | |
years compared with the rise of 34,000 male workers. Also, the | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
overall unemployment and employment data doesn't tell us about the | 0:13:51 | 0:13:58 | |
nature of these jobs, part-time, full-time, there is a rise of | 0:13:58 | 0:14:04 | |
casualisation in the labour market. More for women. I think we have to, | 0:14:04 | 0:14:14 | |
0:14:14 | 0:14:28 | ||
as David says, take a longer term There was a suggestion that people | 0:14:28 | 0:14:35 | |
did not say aye am not in the labour market, but St I want a job. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
This is a difficult area because people can declare themselves to be | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
inactive for different reasons and three months later they perhaps say | 0:14:44 | 0:14:50 | |
aye am looking for a job. So they get transferred from the inactive | 0:14:50 | 0:14:59 | |
to the unemployed category. It is a malleable border. What is the trend. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
Infectivity has been increasing. some of the difference could be | 0:15:03 | 0:15:12 | |
what people are reporting. Under employment is something both of you | 0:15:12 | 0:15:19 | |
are interested in. People who have fought themselves as doing a part- | 0:15:19 | 0:15:26 | |
time job but would be preferably doing a full-time job. Or in a job | 0:15:26 | 0:15:33 | |
and say they want more powers. What is the trend. Very definitely there | 0:15:33 | 0:15:41 | |
is an excess supply of hours especially amongst the young. Those | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
who are in employment say they would like to work longer hours. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:52 | |
The principal reason is that their wages are relatively low. We had a | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
period of decline in male wages because inflation, prices have | 0:15:57 | 0:16:04 | |
increased faster than wages. So to keep up real incomes people have to | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
work for longer. So went in a survey they're asked, they would | 0:16:09 | 0:16:15 | |
say aye would like to work another 10 or 15 hours. This could be part | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
of the solution to this suppose that mystery of what is happening | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
in the economy. During this recession. That unemployment is not | 0:16:25 | 0:16:32 | |
nearly as bad as everyone expected. But there has been a very big fall | 0:16:32 | 0:16:37 | |
in labour productivity. Presumably it could be a product of keeping | 0:16:37 | 0:16:43 | |
people on that doing fewer hours. They would like to be working more. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:51 | |
But output per worker is going down. And this under employment is | 0:16:51 | 0:16:57 | |
especially bad for women. The factors underpinning the gender | 0:16:57 | 0:17:02 | |
profile off under employment is that women are more likely to be | 0:17:02 | 0:17:10 | |
working in sectors affected live retell or social care. And also | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
more likely to be working in jobs beneath their skills level often in | 0:17:16 | 0:17:22 | |
order to balance their caring responsibilities. Is that something, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:30 | |
is that every, is there every evidence that that has got worse | 0:17:30 | 0:17:40 | |
0:17:40 | 0:17:41 | ||
since the social crash? Yes and some of the fall in unemployment | 0:17:41 | 0:17:47 | |
has been offset by a rise in self- employment. There has been around a | 0:17:47 | 0:17:55 | |
60% net rise in self-employment amongst women. That is more a | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
survival strategy with people trying to scratch a living. And in | 0:18:00 | 0:18:06 | |
terms of under employment it is often perceived that children other | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
reason for women working part-time but those choices are made under | 0:18:10 | 0:18:17 | |
conditions of constraint. Perhaps if there was more affordable | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
childcare for example those choices might be different. This is | 0:18:21 | 0:18:28 | |
something that you are looked to us will especially the thing about the | 0:18:28 | 0:18:36 | |
self-employed. The point that you make in a forthcoming paper is that | 0:18:36 | 0:18:43 | |
a lot of this self-employment might actually be self UN employment. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:48 | |
is the defensive mechanism. We now have a more flexible labour market | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
and people are willing to give it a go to set themselves up in business. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:58 | |
But they find it difficult. Many self-employed people are working | 0:18:58 | 0:19:04 | |
quite short hours because they just do not have the business to employ | 0:19:04 | 0:19:11 | |
them, to employ themselves full- time. How unemployment affects | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
individuals, the big thing you both seem to agree on is that the | 0:19:15 | 0:19:22 | |
fundamental reason is a deficit of demand in the economy. There are | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
more factors underpinning the situation for women. That has been | 0:19:27 | 0:19:34 | |
an issue since before the recession. But it has got worse. Is it just | 0:19:34 | 0:19:39 | |
and demand problem. I think it is multi-dimensional for women. It is | 0:19:39 | 0:19:45 | |
a demand problem, a productivity issue but also the lack of | 0:19:45 | 0:19:52 | |
affordable and available childcare. Is there more pressure on women, | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
perhaps in a family where the woman was not working and the partner | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
loses their job, is there more pressure on women to go out and get | 0:20:02 | 0:20:08 | |
a job but then have the household responsibilities and end up taking | 0:20:08 | 0:20:16 | |
something? The evidence shows that women are more likely to be the | 0:20:16 | 0:20:26 | |
money manager in the household. So there could be an element of that. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:31 | |
What do we do about all this? Scott when doing relatively well but | 0:20:31 | 0:20:36 | |
still overall it is pretty much Vlada lining. You also think these | 0:20:37 | 0:20:42 | |
job creation schemes are a waste of time. So what do we do? Just hope | 0:20:42 | 0:20:50 | |
for the best? It is a difficult situation. The euro-zone market is | 0:20:50 | 0:20:57 | |
going to be difficult. And consumer demand is going to remain | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
relatively quiet for quite some time yet. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:07 | |
Now a quick look at tomorrow's front pages. All leading up with | 0:21:07 | 0:21:17 | |
0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | ||
the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. That is probably on the steps of St | 0:21:19 | 0:21:29 | |
0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | ||
Paul's. The Guardian, the court from the Bishop of London. That - | 0:21:31 | 0:21:39 | |
the quote. And a picture of Carol Thatcher in the Daily Mail. That is | 0:21:39 | 0:21:49 | |
0:21:49 | 0:21:55 | ||
all for tonight. I will be back Good evening. A real buffeting from | 0:21:55 | 0:22:02 | |
the wind through the night and some heavy rain in western areas. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
Potentially some atrocious conditions on the roads. The | 0:22:07 | 0:22:13 | |
showers beginning across western areas but migrating east. And a | 0:22:13 | 0:22:21 | |
gusty wind blowing them on. And it will be much fresher during the day | 0:22:22 | 0:22:31 | |
0:22:32 | 0:22:32 | ||
tomorrow. A very wet start for some first thing in the morning. More | 0:22:32 | 0:22:39 | |
rain coming in in the afternoon to Northern Ireland courtesy of | 0:22:39 | 0:22:46 | |
another weather front. So wet and windy through the night. The | 0:22:46 | 0:22:52 | |
outlook as we head through Thursday and Friday, in the northern half of | 0:22:52 | 0:23:00 | |
the UK we have that showery rain. Brighter on Friday. But still does | 0:23:00 | 0:23:07 |