09/05/2013 Newsnight Scotland

might have to wait until possible criminal trials, hacking and

corruption, are over. A little earlier I spoke to Daniel

Morgan's brother, Alastair. What do you hope will come from

What do you hope will come from this new inquiry? Well I obscure ups

this new inquiry? Well I suppose more than anything else a

recognition of the extent of the diplomatic. How many children have

been looked after by alcoholic and drug addicted parents? We look at

how best to deal with it. A report from a trick of Scotland committee

is not the type of things that you'd expect to make headlines and cause

offence in the middle east but that is what happened after the Church

and Society Council issued a paper arguing the script does not support

Jewish claims to the land of Israel. The Israel ambassador himself has

condemned the problem -- has condemned the report.

The Church of Scotland has called for the withdrawal of the Israeli

military from the West Bank. What has made this report so in century

is the use of Scripture and theology to argue that the Jewish people have

no particular right to the territory of Israel. The author questions the

look for interpretation of the Bible which says the land was promised to

the Israelites by God. They say Christians should not be supporting

any claims by Jewish or any other people to an exclusive or even

privileged to divine right to possess particular territory. It is

a misuse of the Bible to use it as a topographic guide to settle

contemporary conflicts over land. The report is intended for

discussion by the general SMP are one of the so-called deliverance is

that delegates will be asked to agree suggest the church should

refute claims that Scripture offers any people is a privileged claim for

possession of a particular territory. The Israeli ambassador to

the UK reacted to the report article in the Jerusalem Post.

Representatives of the Church and the Jewish community in Scotland met

today in an attempt to calm matters. They agreed a new

introduction should be written to clarify language and to reaffirm

that there is no change in the Church of Scotland 's long-held

position of the rights of Israel to exist. Both sides agreed not to

speak to the media until debate at the General assembly later this

month. Within a matter of hours the Church of Scotland has gone from

taking an outspoken version of the issued to saying nothing at all.

I'm joined now by Marcus Dysch of the Jewish crook -- of the Jewish

Chronicle who broke this story and in Glasgow by attempt to Mac,

commentator on religious matters. Just tell us the story about what

has been happening. It started life as a fairly obscure report. It seems

to have snowballed. Probably the church has been quite surprised by

the level of upset within the Jewish community, not just in Scotland but

across Britain and when we broke the story in the Jewish Chronicle last

week, it didn't spiral out of control but the reaction surprised a

lot of people in the Church of Scotland. You shouldn't

underestimate the depth of upset and hurt within the Jewish community,

especially in Scotland and nationally across Britain. And what

they discovered and what Jewish people discovered in the report when

they found it was going to be going to the assembly next month. It is

not just in Britain, is it? We've had columns in the Jerusalem Post.

The Jewish anti-defamation league has been speaking out against it,

too. It has caused a diplomatic incident, almost. Internationally,

there is a lot of concern. The British ambassador to Britain's

comments to the report were mentioned as well. The effect this

could have on communities in Britain is great. The position the Scottish

Jews are coming from and the difficult circumstances for them in

Scotland at the moment for quite some time Scotland has been

considered as a hotbed of anti-Israel activity. And this,

coming from the church, piles the pressure on the Jewish community.

Can you explain in your view what it is that is giving so much offence?

Resume a break, if the Church of Scotland came out and said we think

Israel should stick by UN resolutions and stick to their

land, than a lot of people would say in the Jewish community we don't

agree with you but fair is fair, you're entitled to your opinion.

Those things you've explained about boycotts on the politics behind it

is perhaps unfortunately quite common at the moment and the Israeli

international arena is facing a lot of questions about this. What we

don't expect is some of the language that is used, the terminology. When

you move into a position as the church has done when you are

questioning Jewish people's rights to the land of Israel based on

Israeli government policy, you're starting to stray into dangerous

territory, maybe this is why the Church has stripped itself up here

by talking about Jewish rights to the land of Israel. Johnston McKay,

what seems to have given particular offence is this strand in the

document which basically says Jewish people don't understand their own

Scripture and we are going to tell them what the correct interpretation

of their Scripture is. We want to promote the rights of Palestinians,

that is one thing, but to say you guys... At one point it talks about

how Jesus had a new interpretation of what the land of Israel meant and

how the Jews didn't understand it. You can see why a lot of Jewish

people would find that very uncomfortable and reminiscent of the

old arguments of anti-Semitism. would first of all say that if a

Christian church starts talking about what Jesus said, you cannot

necessarily accuse it of being anti-Semitic. I'm not suggesting it

is but I am suggesting the argument that somehow the Jews don't

understand themselves and don't understand Israel and the Christians

do is uncomfortably reminiscent of the idea of an original Judaic sin.

The Church of Scotland since 1947 has supported the existence of the

state of Israel. Of that there is no question and there is nothing that I

have seen over the last few days that in anyway undermines the Church

of Scotland's commitment to the existence of the Church of -- State

of Israel. What the Church of Scotland has said is that it

believes there needs to be a two state solution and therefore there

ought to be some sort of Palestinian state. That is the exceptional...

Look come if the board of deputies of the British Jews came on tonight

and said, look, I've been looking at the new Testament and I think that

any reasonable perpetration, any Christian church should have

bishops, the Church of Scotland would say that is outrageous! You

cannot tell us what our own religion is! Lets be realistic about this.

These are not too similar situations at all. The new Testament doesn't

take anything whatsoever as far as I can see about the state of Israel.

The new Testament is talking about when it talks about Israel or the

new Israel, it talks about metaphor. In terms of the old Testament, as we

called it, there is no question the Church of Scotland has consistently

supported the state of Israel and suddenly this should now be brought

up as if we were no longer doing so. Marcus Dysch, do you see the point

of any of that or is there and absence of meeting of minds? There

was no consultation with the Jewish people over this. It has asked

anybody in the Jewish community what it thinks about it. It starts

telling the church we should be questioning the Jewish rights to

Israel. It is cared understand why the Jewish community is so concerned

about that. Perhaps it is a naive of the Church to not have thought of

this when they didn't bother speaking to the Jewish people in the

first place for any consultation. Very briefly. I don't think the

church is saying that at all. It has consistently supported the state of

Israel, it is not suggesting that because there should be support for

Palestinians. Thank you both very much indeed. As you sit watching

this, perhaps in the comfort of your home, perhaps enjoying an out cup --

nightcap, would it surprise you to know that at least 80,000 children

in Scotland tonight being cared for by alcoholic or drug addicted

parents? Can Bailey of Scotland's children's Commissioner and he says

that such parents aren't always bad parents. I will be speaking to him

in a moment, but first, we report on whether we spend too much time

supporting the problems of adults that a children's needs are often

overlooked. Scotland's long documented relationship with alcohol

and drugs brings repercussions for our health service, society at large

and tens of thousands of families. Children whose site -- childhoods

are stolen, caught up in a cycle of addiction. This father of three from

Fife says their family was unremarkable but his ex-partner's

mood swings led to chaos caused by drinking. For the most part people

thought we would all key and we got on well. If you are outside the

house, it was a different story. If you were inside the house, you could

hear the animosity and attention on a daily basis. I ended up with

custody but by then my oldest child was off the rails and coming in

drunk. The implications of living with their mother was massive.

According to the Scottish government, the license up to 40,000

children are affected by appearance using drugs. The number rose to

50,000 for a parent with alcohol problems. Tens of thousands more

never enter the system. When they do, there are widespread variations

in the support families are given. Too often the needs of offspring are

overlooked in attempts to help the parents. Parents are given too many

chances before decisions are made. It is right to try and keep our

family together, but the focus is too much in some cases on helping

those parents get better. Ultimately decisions need to be made and you

have to stop taking too many chances and saying, we cannot have this any

more it is in the children's best interest to police them elsewhere.

In Scotland there are tens of thousands of children affected. He

did not have the capacity to take all of them away from the families.

Even if we get, at care placement can be what vulnerable children

need, but if they are supported to stay in the family home, they can

experience far better life than children who are taken into care.

There is no lack of good well, there are hundreds of charities and faulty

organisations dedicated to helping families with addiction problems.

This one run by the ABBA liar childcare trust works to help

mothers with their children. It is funded by Glasgow City Council but

it can only help 12 families at a time. It is nearly always cool.

is where the children's whose moms use the charity come. The scheme has

been operating for a year. If it works it is the perfect solution,

helping addicts recover without taking away their children. Can

Scotland a foredeck? Scotland as a country of compassion and

opportunity. It recognises that everyone has strengths. Everybody

loves their children deep down, we all have that capacity. We're here

to try bring that to the fore and help them tackle some of the other

key difficult issues that those families face on a daily basis.

resources to look at alternative forms of support to care. More

support in relation to families, especially for complex families who

may be quite difficult to work with, but the long-term benefits are worth

it. The Scottish government said it is committed to ensuring children at

risk I helped sinner of the more consistent approach. -- sooner.

Focusing on the needs of the child and not the needs of the system.

Tam Baillie is the Children's Commissioner and he joins me now.

I'm getting confused, you were quoted the other day saying that

just because parents are drug addicts or alcoholics that does not

mean their children should be taken away. I am not quite sure what this

debate is about. Is the sum to be about changing the emphasis? The key

thing is individual assessments. Some suggestions have been looking

at trying to have easy solutions, some kind of tech box, a parent is

our drug user, that means the automatic removal of the child.

Clearly, there are children in neglectful or dangerous

circumstances and we have to get to this children. It was mentioned in

the film about lack of resources. One of the key things about younger

children is universal services, health visits. They are the main

universal service in our youngest families, where we have most

concerns. If you do not identify the families who need additional

support, we will miss those families. Even if we do identify

them, we have very inconsistent assessment processes. That leads to

lack of confidence in the decision-making about where their

children should be. You heard there is too much emphasis put on keeping

families together. The social services are being run for the

benefit of the adults and not the children. Is there any truth in

that? Yes, I sent the evidence to the committee. It has been said

repeatedly about having an overly optimistic approach in terms of the

capacity of the adults to change behaviour. We have two challenge the

decision-making that is just based on an adult's capacity to change

behaviour. You are not making blanket proposals that in more cases

children should be left with the families. You're saying it may be

the opposite. There are two things. If we get better at identify the

children and assessing what children need, that might reduce the

likelihood of children coming into care at a litre date. The second

thing is if we get better at identifying children, were likely to

come across children who need support these and know and who might

have to be moved into care. There are two pressures in the system just

now, one is to go for early intervention and the second is we

know there are a lot of children who missed by social services right now.

If we have better Unicef -- universal services they can pick up

on this children. There is a lack of resources and the health service for

instance. To get round the problem of children being missed, what more

do you need? That is a pressing keys for additional health visitors.

that the problem of just having people to visit which is the problem

or is there a problem about not identifying, even in high profile

cases families have not been identified as problem families.

quality of assessments as variable. I have said that to the committee

and we have to get better at looking at assessments, looking at the

relationship between the parent and child. We have to look at the

evidence of what will make a successful placement for a child at

home as opposed to in care. Thank you very much. A quick look at the

front pages. Cameron facing rebellion over EU decider. The