14/05/2013 Newsnight Scotland

In Newsnight Scotland, should prisoners be allowed to vote in the

referendum? Most of the main parties say no, but there is a noisy

minority using legal, moral and compassionate arguments to let some

prisoners keep their vote. As the housing market heading for recovery?

Is that a good thing? Many countries will regard -- many countries that

we regard this story democracies allow their prisoners to vote.

Is there an ever-growing argument for change in the UK? A serious

debate has been called on the issue. The SNP has dismissed an argument to

let prisoners to vote in next year's independence referendum.

Andrew Black reports. Today, voters of the future paid a visit to the

first Minister's house. Giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote, as they

will have on the independence referendum, has sparked much debate.

But now a campaign to extend voting rights to an even more controversial

group of people is ramping up. The UK is one of a handful of European

countries which does not let any convicted prisoners vote. Both the

UK and Scottish governments want to keep it that way. we will now move

to the next item of business... MSPs today discussed he would get to

vote in the next referendum on independence, some argued that this

should be extended to prisoners. this would send a powerful message

to prisoners that they remain part of wider Scotland with a stake in

the future. To do the opposite is to send precisely the opposite message.

Advocate examples in my own constituency, where constituents

have been victims of domestic abuse, stocking, anti-social behaviour.

Even under the restricted terms proposed by the Liberal Democrats, I

am not convinced that people who commit those cranes and have to

serve custodial sentences, should have the right to vote in the

referendum. Punishment does not seek to deny human dignity to anyone but

to restore it, and I think that is the moral case to which the

government must respond. Convicted prisoners have sacrificed their

entitlement to vote. Prisoners should not be in entitled to vote in

the referendum. If someone commits a crime which lands them in prison,

the break their contract with society. There were some of the

rates which some of us take for granted. Some argued that this view

is outdated. I think prisoners are people who have been elated from

society -- Ely are needed from society. We would want them to be

engaging with society again. To become more responsible citizens. If

you give people the opportunity to vote and think about what is going

on in Scotland and to think about the future governance of Scotland,

that is all part of them thinking about the future and how they are

going to contribute to society as responsible citizens. So how do

other European countries deal with votes for convicted prisoners? As

well as the UK, other countries with a blanket ban in place in include

Austria, Bulgaria and Switzerland. Other countries have a mixture of

the two policies, for example, in France and Iceland it is linked to

the seriousness of the offence. Countries including Germany, Norway

and Portugal save revoking the right to vote to those convicted of crimes

against the state such as terrorism. Could such a policy change be forced

upon the UK? The European Court of human rights says that a blanket ban

is illegal. The UK government is for now sticking to its guns, but it has

brought former draft legislation which would give MPs the option of

giving short-term prisoners the right to vote. Scotland is already

counting the cost of falling foul of human rights laws. When thousands of

prisoners sued over the now-defunct policy of having to use the potty in

a shared cell, ministers had to pay out �11,000 -- �11 million, before

legislation put a bar on new cases. Without a doubt there could be a

challenge if the legislation that is passing through the parliament at

the moment proceeds and is enacted in an unamended form. Then there is

no doubt that prisoners will take forward a challenge. They will go to

court, they will seek review of their legislation. They will ask for

their offending section to be moved because it is out with citizens 's

human rights. the motion is therefore agreed to. Today younger

voters were given a fort in the referendum on independence. But so

far prisoners will not be given the same right.

Their main parties who voted against votes per prisoners this afternoon

-- votes for prisoners this afternoon to to appear on the show.

I'm joined by two people who want to see at least some people given the

right to vote. Presumably you do not want all prisoners to have the right

to vote. You'll mac -- it does not technically apply to referendums.

But what it says is that a blanket ban is not acceptable. To comply

with human rights legislation we need to move away from the blanket

ban. I am open to a number of ways of doing that. You could have it

online to the sentence, seriousness of the fence, you could see that at

the end of someone's sentence they reapply. Do you mean before they are

released? yes. The blanket ban in relation to the elections is

unacceptable. The SNP has said that they want to incorporate strong

human rights into a constitution for Scotland. I would like to see that

happen as well. It seems bizarre that we begin this road towards

independence by taking a less human rights related approach to the

referendum. What the Liberal Democrats have proposed today is

that we would consider giving all short-term prisoners the right to

vote. has short-term?Those serving less than four years. I think that

the right to vote is such a fundamental right in a democratic

society that we should not remove that right lately. The referendum

vote in such a momentous decision to make, a once-in-a-lifetime

opportunity. The time is right to open up this debate. I do not

believe that everyone will agree with me. Even those people who might

see that some prisoners should be given the right to vote, they might

draw the line at a different place. I think that is OK. What we need to

do is open up the debate and have a mature and sensible debate about

where that line lies, because as Patrick says, the blanket ban is not

coherent or sensible. we could have a situation where people on very

short sentences, Christian, for example, could vote next week, where

they could not have voted this week. you could have a situation where

someone has been put on the manned while they are waiting for a trial.

That time would be knocked off their sentence. There are huge anomalies

that arise with the blanket ban. I know that there will be people who

just instinctively feel that someone has committed an offence, they

should lose their right the same way as they use their liberty. But we

use prison in a different way now than we did even if you years ago,

so it seems odd that prisoners still a cut-off point, that is still the

criterion on which we determine the franchise. What about the point that

Annabel Goldie makes, if you want to keep your right to vote, do not get

sent to prison? There is a case for that, and other parties will make

it. There is some evidence, for example from the Church of Scotland.

They argue very clearly that the point of prison, the point of the

criminal justice system, is to repay and to mend the broken relationship

between the offender and society. The message people should get in

prison is, you are part of the society, you are expected to behave

as part of the society. The franchise should be part of that

message, it should be seeing that prisoners not about undermining or

removing human rights, but repealing the relationship of society. Some

people might say that it could help, but other people might see

that they do not care, other things should be done to rehabilitate

prisoners. It is a pragmatic argument. I recently visited Polmont

Young offenders Institute. It is populated by people who have lived

difficult lives on the edges of society. Some of the most

disadvantaged people in Scotland. If we want to stop reoffending, if we

want prison to work, everyone people to come out and choose a different

path, then we need to make people feel connected to the communities

that they are returning to. One small part of that is taking part in

this historic vote. Thank you very much indeed.

Just because the politicians are arguing about everything else, does

not mean that the economy has gone quiet. Some in the housing market

are suggesting that the government's market is one in which -- one in

which he will take a particular interest. The Royal Institute of

chartered surveyors say that demand in the residential market has become

the highest for several years. House prices are held to be likely to be

rising in the next few months. Newhouse pudding is needed to

satisfy the rising demand. Statistics show that house prices

are already rising in London and the south-east. One of the reasons for

the increase our UK government initiatives to help home buying even

though the mortgage guarantee scheme does not come into effect until next

year. In Scotland, the Scotland -- the market is also looking more

optimistic. Although activity is way below the precrisis normal. And

rents are likely to go up because of the shortage of supply. That is bad

news if you are waiting to get into the housing market.

I am joined now by Keith Denholm of Allied Surveyors. I'm always amazed

by the ability of surveyors and estate agents to forecast higher

prices in the middle of a slump. But do you think there is some basis to

say that the heaviest falls in the housing market might be over?

think in certain sectors of the country, they might be. We are

starting to see some early positive signs of improvement in demand. I'm

not seeing them in pricing yet, but I am seeing improvement in what

people want to purchase and can -- transactions are taking a shorter

time. There is extreme regional disparity. Even looking at your

figures, house prices are going up in London and the south-east. They

are either going down or flat everywhere else. The land Registry

in England which is the most reliable figure, shows that prices

are going up in London 9% last year. They were pretty much flat

everywhere else. I think you have to look at the property market which is

different in all parts of the country and even within cities.

There are great variances in property prices and how that market

performance. To look at London and the south-east in isolation is not

fair. When you look at the rest of the UK, it is totally different and

has different economic factors. what I find odd about this is that

one might have thought that given that London was such a big financial

centre and we had a financial crisis -- financial crash in 2008, that

that would iron out some of the disparities between London and the

rest of the country. But in fact, the opposite seems to be happening.

The inability of people to go to London and buy a property is more

extreme than ever. There are many other factors. That -- these factors

have led to London and the south-east improving. Location,

availability of transport to other parts of the world and Europe, the

natural attractions that London has as an economy in comparison to other

parts of the country. I am sure that the good burghers of Edinburgh who

have their own financial centre and who are all aware of that was rather

like it that there was evidence of Edinburgh doing a London. But there

isn't. There are still some received positive bits of news coming out of

the Edinburgh property market. Recently, there were a lot more

transactions in comparison to other parts of Scotland. So Edinburgh is

performing reasonably well. Is there any reason why anyone other than

people in negative equity and estate agents should welcome a return to

rising prices? It hasn't happened yet, but is there any reason why we

should welcome this? There are many reasons why a confident and strong

property market helps the economy. People will come into a house and

want to spend money on refurbishment and modernisation. But surely we

don't want to return to the price rises we were seeing before? Know,

an overheated market is not an healthy -- not a healthy market to

the end. A positive market is what we would like to see. It allows

people to buy with confidence and the market to move forward. So you

wouldn't see -- like to see a room return to the bubble? 9% in a year

in London has bubble written all over it. I would not like to comment

on that. We will leave it there. on that. We will leave it there.

Now, tomorrow 's front pages. Salmond, yes vote is the only way to

keep the Scots in the EU. This is the Scottish Daily Mail.