04/02/2014 Newsnight Scotland


04/02/2014

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proving there can be piece in the least. We are inviting all these

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people to come and see it before they shut it down. -- in the Middle

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East. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:

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Should the unionist parties have a united line on more devolution? The

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Liberal Democrats are on a mission to find points of consensus, but

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will the other parties play ball? And after years of campaigning,

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debating and consulting, Scotland becomes the 17th country in the

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world to legislate for same sex marriage.

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Good evening. If some form of increased powers for the Scottish

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Parliament, the so-called devo max option, was on the ballot paper, it

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would be ahead in the polls. So should the unionist parties be

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joining together to offer increased powers if Scotland votes no? The

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Liberal Democrats seem interested in that idea and are seeking points of

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consensus with Labour and the Tories. But are the other parties

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listening? It was little over a year ago that

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the Liberal Democrats published their alternative to Scottish

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independence and no Willie Rennie is to ask the party's former leader,

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Sir Menzies Campbell, to take a process a stage further. Tonight, in

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the keynote speech, he talked of building a consensus on further

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devolution. The principle of raising the majority of the money that you

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spend will be a common feature of all the plans. Labour have already

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talked about income tax. The Conservatives have even talked about

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federalism, a great move forward! The trade union movement, also TiVo

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plus have come up with the same principles. -- also devolution plus.

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I reckon there is an emerging consensus and I think Menzies

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Campbell will be able to bring the parties together to show the

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Scottish public that voting on the referendum does not mean no change.

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Sir Menzies Campbell's task will be threefold, to review the consensus

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around and invite other parties, planning a timetable for change and

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deciding how that change will be commented after the referendum. In a

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recent debate, there was precious little sign of any clear commitment

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to work together from the other unionist parties. I cannot speak for

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the Conservatives Liberal Democrats. What I am saying is that

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for the Labour Party, we will publish our detailed proposals in

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March at our party conference and then it is about what process that

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goes through from there on to the actual next stage itself. What would

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be very help full head of the referendum is that we understand, as

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unionist parties, the parameters by which the debate has to take place.

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If they can agree, the prize for the unionist is to secure a high

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proportion of undecided voters who say they would like the option of

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further powers. In Europe, in work. Willie Rennie says decentralising

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power across Britain is building such momentum that it will happen,

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whether he and Sir Menzies Campbell can build an all-party consensus is

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another matter. I'm joined from Westminster by the

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Liberal Democrat peer and devo max enthusiast Jeremy Purvis. Jeremy,

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when Willie Rennie talks about forming a consensus, what are we

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talking about? I think it is for those organisations that have

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already published their proposals. One of those is of course the

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Liberal Democrats. But the think tank Reform Scotland has published

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the devolution plus rather than devo max proposals. There seems to be an

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emerging common ground among some basic principles and I think our

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task as a party is to try and bring us together. Is your ambition, with

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no disrespect to the IPPR and similar organisations, I hardly

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think that is going to floor the yes campaign, if you manage to achieve a

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consensus within. What you need to do is achieve a consensus with the

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Conservative and Labour party, do you not? With respect back, it is

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not just about political parties. It is of course the parties that will

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be tasked in any future administration... But it is because

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I am sure John Curtis will be arguing later on when we talk to him

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that the point is that if Labour and the Liberal Democrats and

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Conservatives had some come in position which you could put in your

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2015 election manifestoes and announced that before September,

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then people could vote no and be sure that these more devolution

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measures would be carried out. Let me answer this answer in school, for

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people to end a sentence. In principle, I think there is a lot to

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that. Willie Rennie have indicated today and I am certainly in favour

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of the people knowing that when the vote in the referendum that they

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would be rejecting independence that they understand what the process

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will be that will happen. That is about forming some form of agreement

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among basic principles that he is political parties can deliver

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post-referendum that can also try and attract as much consensus as

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possible with other groups that have contributed to the debate. That was

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the founding basis of the Constitutional Convention in the

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1990s and I think it is a strong principle to go forward with now. So

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you're saying that you do think there could be some joint position,

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at least in a very basic sense, between EU, the Liberal Democrats,

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the Conservatives and Labour? We are waiting for the Conservatives and

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Labour to publish their because of the need space to do that and I

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respect that fully. -- their proposals. My party have already

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published their proposals. I think Menzies Campbell, looking at where

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we are at the moment, a number of months ahead of the referendum, will

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already gather which of the basic principles to go forward. Already,

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it seems to be emerging that raising the majority, or close to the

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majority of funding, for the Scottish Parliament and having it on

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a constitutional footing is a positive offer. We will await what

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the other parties do that already there seems to be a growing

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consensus in the middle ground that we are wanting to capture and have

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that as a basis of what form of agreement could be delivered after

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the referendum. While many as may be willing, are you getting any

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indication that Labour and the Conservatives are willing to join

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question -- while Menzies maybe willing. I was watching in the hall

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a speech and the Labour interim report also and they have both

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indicated there direction of travel. We will await what they say and I

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respect that they have their own processes to go through. By the time

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of the referendum on the boat, I think that we should be able to know

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what is the likely process after what the Liberal Democrats are doing

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is indicating yes, we have published proposals but won't know that next

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step, to understand what the middle ground is and where are the bones of

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what will be delivered afterwards. People are aware that there are

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parties like the Liberal Democrats that are very clear that improving

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the union is one of the things that we wish to see. That is a stronger

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argument than simply rejecting independence. Do not go away.

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Also here is Scotland's polling guru, Professor John Curtice, and

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the critic and commentator Joyce McMillan. John Curtis, explain why

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you think this is a bit of a no-brainer for the unionist parties?

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It is certainly true that the part of the current no float that

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consists of people whose first preference is more devolution, along

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the lines of what he has been talking about, it certainly looks

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like the softer part of the no vote. Around 45% of people who say they

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are going to vote no of people whose first preference is that they would

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like to see more devolution in the wake of a no vote. Maybe around a

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third of that 45% of potential no voters say, I might change my mind

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if I were not convinced that more devolution was not going to happen.

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In general, those people who say, my first preference is more devolution,

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they are located amongst those people who have not yet fully make

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their mind up. Therefore, put that together, this looks like the soft

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underbelly. If it is true, the lead of the no side has narrowed

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somewhat, we might be beginning to enter the territory that that

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movement could make a difference and returned the referendum into a close

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fight. We will use you as a swing voter, because you have not made up

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your mind yet, but if you were to see a platform from Labour and the

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Tories and Lib Dems saying, here are our proposals for more devolution,

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you do not need to vote for independence, and you know it would

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be in the manifesto is that this would be implemented, would that

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have an influence? I do not know. I have been pretty well put off by the

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negativity we have seen from the no camp so far, but I welcome any

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development that makes the people on the no side think possibly the spec

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positively about what they might have to offer Scotland in the

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future, because until now, it has been, you cannot do that. So if they

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get themselves into a frame of mind where they are offering some kind of

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positive change, that can only have a positive effect on the quality of

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the debate, and there is clearly a large chunk of the electorate who

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would, if the devolution campaign got itself together at an earlier

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stage, and got it onto the ballot paper, who would have been choosing

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that option, and will now be reassured if the three unionist

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parties get together and guarantee some kind of better devolution

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offer. The crucial thing here is that it has got to be all three of

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them. If I am a voter, I think, I will vote no for more devolution, so

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if all three do it, they will be the next government. The crucial thing

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is, will it happen? The unionist parties have only done something

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when they have been under pressure from the SNP. The concern that some

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people have is, if there is a no vote, the pressure on the unionist

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parties will not deliver, so people want the unionist parties to have a

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clear commitment in advance of September, and they are committed to

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putting it in their manifestoes in 2015, and that is as close as a

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guarantee as we can get. This is the crucial point, it is not just you,

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you have got to get the others to do it. It does not work if Labour and

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the Liberal Democrats do it, it has got to be all three, so voters know

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it will happen, irrespective of which party is the next government

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of the UK. All of those three parties will have their own plans,

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and Ming Campbell has do find the common ground that exist and allow

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that to be clear going forward. Alistair Carmichael will be

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Secretary of State for Scotland after the referendum, and he is

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clear that a no vote to independence is not a no vote to change. But the

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critical thing, will these be the best reforms to allow the long-term

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relationship that works well to strengthen the Scottish Parliament

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in the UK? I think so, that is why we are working hard to secure the

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middle ground. We have to leave it here, thank you.

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The debating, campaigning and consulting is over, MPs, or MSPs,

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voted the bill legalising the same-sex marriage into law this

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evening, a landmark for equality, but some religious groups said they

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could be discredited against for opposing gay marriage.

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The celebration started early outside Holyrood. But inside the

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chamber, some MSPs were expressing concern about the law. Equality is

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about fairness, not about making everyone the same. The indisputable

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fact is the build them on issues the deeply held views of those that

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consider marriage as between a man and a woman. There is nothing fair

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in causing those who are opposed to same-sex marriage to feel

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apprehensive about expressing this view. But this is the situation

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which will now prevail in Scotland. The Health Secretary joined

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campaigners in advance of the vote, confident his law would pass. This

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is one of the biggest historic moments in the history of Scotland.

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From today forward, Scotland will be a much more civilised society will

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stop the law was passed, decisively. Yes, 105. No, 18. There were no

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abstentions. The marriage and civil partnership Scotland Bill is passed.

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And it's the cheering, notice the people in the calorie think the law

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the thumbs down. There were protesters outside

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Holyrood earlier, too. Matthew chapter five says that God sent the

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rain on the just and the unjust, but which is which? If you are a man who

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wants to marry a man or a woman who wants to marry a woman, the doors of

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this magnificent building will remain closed to you stopped the

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minister says it is a redefinition of what marriage is, a step too far,

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but he was keen to stress that, as in parishes across the country,

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every kind of person is welcome to play a full part in the life of the

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community that worshipped here. The Kirk says safeguards in the law are

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not robust enough. We are concerned that the scheme which the Scottish

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government is promoting through the Scottish Parliament is full rubble

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to challenge under European human rights legislation. We do not expect

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there to be an immediate challenge, but there is a real prospect that,

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in the future, there will be a challenge, perhaps a successful one,

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and the church may be faced with a choice of either having to do all

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marriages, same and different sex, or no marriages at all. Alan Watts

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in a civil partnership. Until Malcolm died two years ago. This

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week would have been their anniversary. We loved each other

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ridiculously, we fought like cat and dog, but every couple does. However,

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because we could, we thought we should, it would be the right thing

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to do. It is not for everyone, but it was right for us, and it made

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such a massive difference. Especially when Malcolm needed to

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keep going back to hospital before he eventually died. Some of the

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nursing staff, the older people, were a wee bit funny. But then, the

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younger staff said, that is his husband. Is it his boyfriend? No, it

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is his husband. That is the difference. Had we not been married,

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I would have just been his boyfriend, no matter how long we had

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been together. This couple met nine years ago when they were both

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working on Edinburgh's ghost tours. They are in a civil partnership to.

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Every marriage in the world is unique, it is between two unique

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people, people have different things in common, and we are both women.

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Somebody else might have in common that they both have run high, --

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both have brown hair, there is so much judgement about what you can

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and cannot have in common. 50 years ago, interracial marriage, you have

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to have that in common. The pictures from the ceremony already looked

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like a wedding, now they say they plan to get married as soon as they

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can. The Scotsman says, BP boss's warning

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on independence, and people celebrating same-sex marriage. I am

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back tomorrow, good night. Another story spell of weather is

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with us, more heavy rain and strong wind overnight, continuing into

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tomorrow. Brief spells to the east and north, and there will be some

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pride in this between heavy showers, but the wind will be especially

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strong, maybe touching 80 miles an hour for western coast. The rain

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will be on and off all day in Northern Ireland. For the north-west

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of Scotland sunny spells. Rain throughout the day across the

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